Madeleine McCann - psychic picture of abductor

[RichardR]

Newspaper report (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/66896/EXCLUSIVE-FBI-psychics-turn-up-face-of-Maddy-killer-):

A DRAWING of a man two FBI psychics say snatched Madeleine McCann has been produced by an American TV programme.

Now investigators working for Kate and Gerry McCann say they want to see the so-called evidence revealed in the programme, which was screened last week in the US.

The drawing is of a man aged between 36 and 42 with thick dark brown or black hair and stubble. It has now been handed over to police in Portugal.They have given police the abductor's name (Steve or Stav), his picture and the exact location of Madeleine's body.

With such a solid lead it can surely only be a matter of time now before this case is solved.

[Aussie Thinker]

Ok.. this disturbs the bejeezus out of me !

The FBI takes psychic evidence seriously and all three members of the Haunting Evidence team have been used in major criminal investigations.

WTF.. this si surely complete garbage since when does the FBI take psychics seriously… if they do.. it explains why they get everything wrong !

But this.. a breath of fresh air…

A spokesman for the McCanns said that although they were deeply sceptical of information from psychics, they want their private investigators to examine the information which was broadcast.

Nice to see this tragedy has not caused the McCanns to lose sight of reality !

[kerikiwi]

What is an FBI psychic?

I note that the man has a pronounced accent. That rather broadens the field, doesn't it?
The Mc Canns have a pronounced accent.
I have a pronounced accent.
Who doesn't have a pronounced accent?
How else would a person have an accent if not pronounced?

[Darat]

This is just sickening.

[Wildy]

I note that the man has a pronounced accent. That rather broadens the field, doesn't it?
The Mc Canns have a pronounced accent.
I have a pronounced accent.
Who doesn't have a pronounced accent?
How else would a person have an accent if not pronounced?

I'm guessing pronounced means an accent that does not sound normal to the "profilers".

[Ashles]

I wonder why "Have your say" has been disabled for that story.

If it were about immigrants, house prices or Princess Diana I am fairly sure it would be available.

Sickening story - sometimes I really genuinely wish swearing were allowed on these forums as I can't describe these people adequately otherwise.

[GT/CS]

I wonder why "Have your say" has been disabled for that story.

If it were about immigrants, house prices or Princess Diana I am fairly sure it would be available.

Sickening story - sometimes I really genuinely wish swearing were allowed on these forums as I can't describe these people adequately otherwise.

It is allowed.:rule10:rule10:rule10:rule10:rule10

[Bob Blaylock]

I suppose the most disturbing thing is this: The alleged psychics have produced a picture of the man that they say murdered the child. Somewhere out there, there may very well be a man who looks like that picture, but he surely has nothing whatsoever to do with this matter. As a result of this picture being circulated, along with the claim that it is of a child-murderer, any man who looks like this picture is likely to face false accusations and stigmatization that he does not deserve.

[GT/CS]

I suppose the most disturbing thing is this: The alleged psychics have produced a picture of the man that they say murdered the child. Somewhere out there, there may very well be a man who looks like that picture, but he surely has nothing whatsoever to do with this matter. As a result of this picture being circulated, along with the claim that it is of a child-murderer, any man who looks like this picture is likely to face false accusations and stigmatization that he does not deserve.

Excellent point.

And the picture will be vague enough to look like 12,000,000 people.

[plumjam]

Few of you realise I'm a psychic artist.
Just 20 minutes ago Darat was pigging out on an ice cream, and I made this psychic sketch as proof.http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1894248fcd2bb2765b.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14101)

[dudalb]

If true someone at the FBI needs to be fired, immedetely.

[Bee]

I suppose the most disturbing thing is this: The alleged psychics have produced a picture of the man that they say murdered the child. Somewhere out there, there may very well be a man who looks like that picture, but he surely has nothing whatsoever to do with this matter. As a result of this picture being circulated, along with the claim that it is of a child-murderer, any man who looks like this picture is likely to face false accusations and stigmatization that he does not deserve.

I've seen the picture in one of last sundays papers and it looks like a younger Robert De Nero (for legal reasons I'd better emphasise the fact it isn't Robert De Nero :).)

[anduin]

Newspaper report (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/66896/EXCLUSIVE-FBI-psychics-turn-up-face-of-Maddy-killer-):


That picture looks just like me without glasses!

[biomorph]

"The FBI takes psychic evidence seriously and all three members of the Haunting Evidence team have been used in major criminal investigations."

Is that so?
'Round here that paper is known as the "Daily Excess"

[chillzero]

I've seen the picture in one of last sundays papers and it looks like a younger Robert De Nero (for legal reasons I'd better emphasise the fact it isn't Robert De Nero :).)

See... that would make it Gravy ... and I'm sure it wasn't him either.
;)


These kinds of things are dangerous. We see the problems that arise with mob or bounty hunter mentality. For example the attack on the house of a paediatrician, mistaken for a paedophile. Someone obsessed with this case (as many seem to be) could easily make real trouble for some innocent person based on this nonsense.

[biomorph]

These kinds of things are dangerous. We see the problems that arise with mob or bounty hunter mentality. For example the attack on the house of a paediatrician, mistaken for a paedophile. Someone obsessed with this case (as many seem to be) could easily make real trouble for some innocent person based on this nonsense.

Absolutely. I totally agree.

[JihadJane]

Absolutely. I totally agree.

It seems extremely unlikely to me that this drawing will lead to anything remotely like paediatrician abuse. It is over-excited posters' psychicophobia that is distorting objective judgement in this case! ;)

It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies.

---------

@ biomorph

I psychically sense a strong resemblance between our avatars. What could this mean?

[chillzero]

It seems extremely unlikely to me that this drawing will lead to anything remotely like paediatrician abuse.

I don't believe anyone claimed it would.
If you'd read more carefully, the point was about mob mentality, and those who want to be like Dog the Bounty Hunter. The media has worked hard to build up a global frenzy over this one individual case, which truly sickens me as a person involved quite heavily at times in work on missing persons cases. People feel personally involved and speak of every member of this family by first names. People wail all over the internet about their own personal experiences and grief over the loss of 'our sweet Maddy'.

There's a mob mentality and sense of personal involvement that has been stoked to the hottest by the media, and that situation can be very dangerous. An actual example of how dangerous mob mentality can be is relevant to the post.

[ChrisH]

"It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."

Really? Do you have any real evidence to back that up?

[TMiguel]

"It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."

Really? Do you have any real evidence to back that up?

Actually I heard about some claims from the CIA using psychics, but I’m positive that was because they couldn’t pass away classified reasons for the public. Any excuse would do.

[AndyD]

Interesting. The news report calls two of them "FBI psychics" yet says:

It was produced by two psychic criminal profilers who work closely with the FBI in America.

Which sounds like a typical claim from self-professed "psychic detectives" and working closely with the FBI, if they do, doesn't make them "FBI psychics".

But the author adds at the end of the story:

The FBI takes psychic evidence seriously and all three members of the Haunting Evidence team have been used in major criminal investigations.

Was this verified with the FBI or did the psychics state this "fact" and do they work for the FBI or just with the FBI?

This site (http://www.amindformurder.com/) comes to mind (for murder)

_______________________

It must be the alignment of the planets or something. A similar thing is happening in Western Australia where stage psychics have all but solved an an 11-year-old serial killer case - if only the police were competent enough to listen to them

Thread here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=126622)

[AndyD]

Former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt has written about psychics here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7320305/). He says:

My point is this: If psychics were truly successful and if their results were not simply the consequence of trickery (at worse) or good interviewing skills (at best)— then why don't law enforcement agencies have psychic detective squads, a real X-files Unit, or other ways to integrate these paranormal investigative capabilites?

and

Each of us can believe what we choose, but in the criminal justice field, crimes are solved by investigation and information— not by rubbing sticks together, huddling over a Ouija Board, or talking to a spirit guide.

[Azrael 5]

I wonder why "Have your say" has been disabled for that story.

If it were about immigrants, house prices or Princess Diana I am fairly sure it would be available.

Sickening story - sometimes I really genuinely wish swearing were allowed on these forums as I can't describe these people adequately otherwise.

Because the McCanns("GOD" bless their parenting skills)have sued the Express group of newspapers-as have their Tapas friends.

Anyway the abducter is here,as described by one of said Tapas 7,why he hasn't been caught yet I have no idea.
<<<<<


WHat happened to the dream dude who was acquiring funds to go out to Portugal and solve this? Brian?

[TMiguel]

I’m having a psychic vision, the responsible:
was a short, tall, slim, fat, man or woman whit brown, black, white, blonde, painted, long, short or bald hair whit white, black, idian or asiatic skin colour tone between the age of 5 and 95.
I’m sure there aren’t to many people that fit into this description, the police won’t have any trouble finding it in no time.

[Azrael 5]

Haven't they got to prove she was abducted first?!

[JihadJane]

I don't believe anyone claimed it would.
If you'd read more carefully, the point was about mob mentality, and those who want to be like Dog the Bounty Hunter. The media has worked hard to build up a global frenzy over this one individual case, which truly sickens me as a person involved quite heavily at times in work on missing persons cases. People feel personally involved and speak of every member of this family by first names. People wail all over the internet about their own personal experiences and grief over the loss of 'our sweet Maddy'.

There's a mob mentality and sense of personal involvement that has been stoked to the hottest by the media, and that situation can be very dangerous. An actual example of how dangerous mob mentality can be is relevant to the post.

I've re-read your post several times and it still seems to say the same thing. Justaposing "these kind of things" with "paedophile" creates a strong impression.

What do you think predisposes society to outbursts of mass grief ?

[JihadJane]

"It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."

Really? Do you have any real evidence to back that up?

The Soup Dragon told me.

[TMiguel]

Haven't they got to prove she was abducted first?!

I didn’t said that she was abducted (neither did I denied it), I just described the responsible (even if the responsible is the kid himself).

[chillzero]

I've re-read your post several times and it still seems to say the same thing. Justaposing "these kind of things" with "paedophile" creates a strong impression.

"these kind of things" referred to the use of unresearched and invalid rubbish from the media to validate and enflame mob mentality. The media publicise this nonsense and thereby validate it to people who don't have the wit or sense to consider it might be bogus. That can - and has in the past - led to very serious repurcussions to innocent parties. I don't know why you would think it needs the term 'paedophile' to make it create a stronger impression than it already should.

People go and take action - often violent - against innocent parties for no good reason, encouraged and often led to the conclusions by the press. The media needs to be more responsible with what it leads people to believe. This image they are pasting about could have an impact on the life of a completely innocent bystander.

My post should say the same thing each time you read it because I stand by the point I was making. Your claim :
It seems extremely unlikely to me that this drawing will lead to anything remotely like paediatrician abuse. It is over-excited posters' psychicophobia that is distorting objective judgement in this case!
makes no sense. I am not inciting anyone to take action against anyone who just happens to look like this person. The media are flaunting this image as a valid representation of the actual abductor. I think it more likely someone would take the law into their own hands based on the press claiming this person is guilty based on the words of 'psychics', than because they read my post. :rolleyes:
The only judgements I am making is that the image is bogus and that the psychics are frauds. I have no phobia of psychics, and I suggest you learn a little about my past and my reasons for being on this forum before you accuse me of such. Nor am I particularly excited. I am merely making the statement - quite calmly - that the press are once again indulging in irresponsible journalism. Perhaps you could respond with a little less hyperbole.


What do you think predisposes society to outbursts of mass grief ?
That's probably a Social Issues thread in itself.

[Azrael 5]

I didn’t said that she was abducted (neither did I denied it), I just described the responsible (even if the responsible is the kid himself).

TM I wasn't referencing any of your posts,I was just merely asking the question.;)

[Edges]

I find the Haunting Evidence team particularly abhorrant. I've never seen their show (I don't have the stomach) but in one commericial, the woman remarked, "Oooo, chills," extremely remeniscent of a teenage girl after hearing a spooky ghost story. And every commericial seems to feature the dark-haired man having his eyes roll up in the back of his head a la Hollywood demonic possessions.

One would think that people dealing with such a depressing, emotionally charged subject like a missing, possibly dead child would at least have the decency not to treat it like a campfire scarefest.

[fuelair]

I wonder why "Have your say" has been disabled for that story.

If it were about immigrants, house prices or Princess Diana I am fairly sure it would be available.

Sickening story - sometimes I really genuinely wish swearing were allowed on these forums as I can't describe these people adequately otherwise.
Just to help a bit: feces eating, father reproductive unit osculating, devourer of dog vomit, lower than the lowest of pondscum in the fetid outhouse of Hell...............

[Ashles]

The Soup Dragon told me.
So you agree you have no evidence that police forces or intelligence agencies use psychics?

(Other than obviously sickening instances such as this one when the psychics barge in, distract everyone and waste Police time, which doesn't really count as the Police 'using' psychics any more than the Football Association 'use' streakers)

[JihadJane]

I don't know why you would think it needs the term 'paedophile' to make it create a stronger impression than it already should.

I think it's because the paedophile/paediatrician was such an out-standingly surreal manifestation and it seemed you were predicting a similar level of weird and ignorant confusuin to arise from this "psychic" portrait. Maybe I underestimate the madness of Britishers.


I am not inciting anyone to take action against anyone who just happens to look like this person

I in no way intended to suggest you were inciting anyone to do anything.

The only judgements I am making is that the image is bogus and that the psychics are frauds. I have no phobia of psychics, and I suggest you learn a little about my past and my reasons for being on this forum before you accuse me of such. Nor am I particularly excited. I am merely making the statement - quite calmly - that the press are once again indulging in irresponsible journalism. Perhaps you could respond with a little less hyperbole.

I hope I am now. I didn't mean it to be personal but can see it reads like that! I thought comparing the paediatrician example with this one was a bit over-excited, stirred up, at least partly, by anti-psychic passion. I understand now that you weren't making such a direct comparison.

I did read a bit about your past on the "How did you find JREF" (?) thread. The evocative story of your dramatic transformation stuck strongly in my mind and I have thought about it since.

[JihadJane]

So you agree you have no evidence that police forces or intelligence agencies use psychics?

Yes and no! It's something I've read reports about over the years. I can't name any. I am sceptical on such matters myself. I have also heard it from two seperate law enforcement professionals. If you google "police use psychics" like I just did, there are various examples (and anti-examples!). I don't know how well authenticated they are. Happy reading!

... doesn't really count as the Police 'using' psychics any more than the Football Association 'use' streakers"

Mixing streakers with funny shaped policemen's helmets is also not unknown.

[biomorph]

It seems extremely unlikely to me that this drawing will lead to anything remotely like paediatrician abuse. It is over-excited posters' psychicophobia that is distorting objective judgement in this case! ;)


As unlikely as it might be percieved to be, it happens.

If its the wrong description that the psychics supplied (and it usually is) regardless, and if some person who may by coincidence resemble the incorrect profile by reason of distinctive features, then hey, they innocently are at risk.

It's a well known human trait to connect the dots, even when unconnected.
Also, what right do these frauds and charlatens have to put at risk even slightly the persons who might resemble the description they give?

Especially when they are pretty much always wrong. In fact I have not seen one get it right yet, at least not beyond the occasional wild ass guess.

Its bad enough sometimes when a real description is given. That is why we have ID line-ups to establish amongst similar looking people which one looks most like the alleged perpetrator.

Why do you think that is so? Eh?

It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies.

Evidence?
As far as I've seen, the psychics claim to do so, but in actuality give a distorted picture of the real involvement that they have.

In reality psychics seem to lie a lot about how much use they where, and the "agencies" you list usually deny that psychics were either involved or helpful at all.

Its called "self-promotion"

I suggest you do a little more research to establish the reality behind the claims they make, there are plenty of examples in this forum I expect.

---------

@ biomorph

I psychically sense a strong resemblance between our avatars. What could this mean?

Yeah they both have got a lid. LOL Good one............

Try using mine for the same use as yours and see what happens.:boggled:

[JihadJane]

As unlikely as it might be percieved to be, it happens.

I will eat my hat(s) if a single piece of vigilante-type action emerges from this "psychic" fotofit. It is more likley that Daily Express readers will simply wait patiently to see if there's any resemblance when/if the culprit is caught.

The affair is no more of a threat to public order than the TV soap operas which have lead to actors being attacked in the street but no deaths so far.

[chillzero]

It doesn't need to be a matter of public order, or mass riots.

All it takes is one person to confront, or report to the authorities someone that they believe to be this person. If they are keen to be the one that breaks the case, they may be loose with the truth of any 'evidence' provided to the police. They may decide to confront the person themself.

[Kuko 4000]

Ashles, I don't know about any current psychics working for the police (and the "FBI psychics" thing mentioned in the OP is seriously disturbing) or intelligence agencies but are you familiar with the Stargate program?

http://skepdic.com/remotevw.html

The CIA and the U.S. Army thought enough of remote viewing to spend millions of taxpayers' dollars on "Stargate." The program involved using psychics for such operations as trying to locate Gaddafi of Libya (so our Air Force could drop bombs on him) and the locating of a missing airplane in Africa.

[JihadJane]

It doesn't need to be a matter of public order, or mass riots.

All it takes is one person to confront, or report to the authorities someone that they believe to be this person. If they are keen to be the one that breaks the case, they may be loose with the truth of any 'evidence' provided to the police. They may decide to confront the person themself.

They may but I still feel that some of the reactions on this thread are more motivated by an antipathy towards psychics than by concern about possible danger to accidental "Stavs" or confused policemen.

I'll play devil's advocate and ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever been hurt or police investigations ever seriously hampered by the public release of "psychic" pictures of criminal suspects? If the police believe that "pychic" evidence is rubbish they will, presumeably, ignore any "leads" derived from it.

[chillzero]

I'll play devil's advocate and ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever been hurt or police investigations ever seriously hampered by the public release of "psychic" pictures of criminal suspects? If the police believe that "pychic" evidence is rubbish they will, presumeably, ignore any "leads" derived from it.

Regardless of the psychic element, people have been accused and even arrested based on similarities to fotofits.

[JihadJane]

Regardless of the psychic element, people have been accused and even arrested based on similarities to fotofits.

The picture of "Stav" is not a fotofit. My reference to it as such above was tongue-in-cheek.

Fotofits derive from what the police judge to be credible eyes-witnesses not the drawings of "psychics".

[chillzero]

That doesn't change my point.

[JihadJane]

That doesn't change my point.

I don't know why not but no matter.

If any of your fears are realised please post details here so that I can consider whether or not I need to eat my hat(s).

[chillzero]

I don't know why not but no matter.

because ....
Regardless of the psychic element, people have been accused and even arrested based on similarities to fotofits.


If any of your fears are realised please post details here so that I can consider whether or not I need to eat my hat(s).

I have no fears on this issue.

[JihadJane]

because ....

Regardless of the psychic element, people have been accused and even arrested based on similarities to fotofits.


This feels like I am nit-picking and I do understand your point, however:

If the drawing is not a fotofit then comments about fotofits are not necessarily relevant to it. Fotofits are issued with the authority of the police. Drawings by "psychics" reproduced in dodgy right-wing tabloids are not. The police (in an ideal world...!) will only arrest someone if they believe there may be evidence to justify doing so.

Unless one believes that the police take claims based on "psychic" information seriously, the police will not arrest anyone called Steve or Stav just because they look like the drawing presented in the "Daily Getsmuchworse".

It's true that some unfortunate, innocent, look-alike Stav may be living next door to a neighbour distressed enough to cause problems. Not a few people believe that their neighbours are interfering with their minds with radio waves and take violent countermeasures accordingly. Does that mean that there is something wrong with radio waves?

Actors playing baddies in TV soap operas have been insulted and attacked because of their roles. Should soap operas be held responsible for this?

I have no fears on this issue.


I understood that you were afraid that there could be unfortunate repercussions from publishing this drawing.

[chillzero]

I'm blaming, and suggesting nothing other than the fact that this is irresponsible journalism.

[Ashles]

Yes and no! It's something I've read reports about over the years.
I've read reports about the Loch Ness Monster. Generally 'reports' are no substitute for facts verified with a degree of authenticity.

I can't name any.
What a surprise.

I am sceptical on such matters myself.
It really dosn't appear that way. You can't name any, can't detail the 'reports' you have read and can provide no evidence whatsoever, yet still think it seems likely?

I have also heard it from two seperate law enforcement professionals.
A rather vague statement. And if you have decided to replace the word 'Policean' with 'Law Enforcement Professional' to attemptto add a little gravitas then I am even more sceptical.
What exactly was the claim made by these two policemen you spoke to? What were the details of the conversation?

If you google "police use psychics" like I just did, there are various examples (and anti-examples!). I don't know how well authenticated they are. Happy reading!
If you google 'Bigfoot sighting' and 'Fairies' you will find various examples.

Undocumented examples showing up on a Google search are not indicative of anything.
A 'skeptic' would know that.

Any chance of providing more details of the examples that your two 'law enforcement professionals' were talking about?
Or the situation in whih the conversation arose? (Professional, social, part of a relevant dicussion etc.)

(And by the way just because someone is a Police officer doesn't mean they aren't as prone to self delusion, mistakes and urban myths as everyone else - did they have personal experience of these purported examples?)

[JihadJane]

(And by the way just because someone is a Police officer doesn't mean they aren't as prone to self delusion, mistakes and urban myths as everyone else - did they have personal experience of these purported examples?)

I suggested 'google' as a place for you to start looking. Examples aren't hard to find. Kuko 4000 give a major example in comment 39.

I commented, above, that "It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."

Whether members of said services are delusional or not is irrelevant to my comment. I'd like to add that I wasn't making any claim about the reliability or otherwise of psychcis they have used or know about, BTW, in case this fact has been obscured by the blur a rapidly jerking knees !

[Rolfe]

.... their own personal experiences and grief over the loss of 'our sweet Maddy'.


Without apparently noticing that she wasn't even called Maddy.

Rolfe.

[Ashles]

I suggested 'google' as a place for you to start looking. Examples aren't hard to find. Kuko 4000 give a major example in comment 39.
I commented, above, that "It is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."
I didn't realise you were accepting examples where they had demonstrably been of no use as relevant examples.
the CIA shut it down because they were convinced that after 24 years of experiments it was clear that remote viewing was of no practical value to the intelligence community
I am sure there are obviously instances where individual police officers have, for their own personal beliefs, used a variety of paranormal/religious/otherwise unsuitable techniques to attempt to further a case.

As a policy the police do NOT use psychics. The instances where they have been involved have been either uninvited, or the request from an individual Police Officer.
No case has ever been solved because of information provided by a psychic (unless you know of any).

The Stargate program was shut down because of lack of results.

Whether members of said services are delusional or not is irrelevant to my comment. I'd like to add that I wasn't making any claim about the reliability or otherwise of psychcis they have used or know about, BTW, in case this fact has been obscured by the blur a rapidly jerking knees !
I am still not aware of any Police Force who use psychics. Can you provide details of such a Police Force?
(Or are we going to be directed back to Google again?)

[JihadJane]

I am sure there are obviously instances where individual police officers have, for their own personal beliefs, used a variety of paranormal/religious/otherwise unsuitable techniques to attempt to further a case.

...

The Stargate program was shut down because of lack of results.



I'm not sure why you are arguing with me as you seem to agree with my statement that it "is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."

[Pixel42]

I'll play devil's advocate and ask if there is any evidence that anyone has ever been hurt or police investigations ever seriously hampered by the public release of "psychic" pictures of criminal suspects? If the police believe that "pychic" evidence is rubbish they will, presumeably, ignore any "leads" derived from it.
http://www.klaaskids.org/pg-mc-hazards.htm

A few months after Polly was recovered a psychic claimed that she solved Polly’s case on the television program Hard Copy. Not only was she using my daughter’s death to promote herself, but she also dismissed all of the wonderful people: police, media, and volunteers who worked so hard and tirelessly to locate my child.

In truth, that psychic detectives contribution to the case was counter productive. As always seems to be the case with psychic predictions, her interference created distraction. Law enforcement resources are diverted toward useless endeavors as phantom leads disappear into thin air. One cold and dark November evening many of us were lurking around somebody’s property because the psychic said that it held the key to my daughter’s disappearance. With the heightened sense of paranoia that already existed in the community that property owner would have been well within his rights to blow us away on the spot for trespassing. We were very fortunate that night, because although he did angrily confront us, he had absolutely nothing to do with the crime we were investigating.

[Ocelot]

WHat happened to the dream dude who was acquiring funds to go out to Portugal and solve this? Brian?

Brian Ladd.

A disabled ex police officer reported him to the authorities, interferring with an active investigation is a crime in Portugal, as is breaking and enterering Murat's house. Brian was threatened with arrest decided not to go. He offered to refund the money collected but how many of his followers took him up on the offer is uncertain. What his followers did do was track down the ex police officer all over the internet branding him a pervert for posting about his incontience issues on an unrelated forum.

[kerikiwi]

I'm not sure why you are arguing with me as you seem to agree with my statement that it "is not unknown for police forces to use psychics or, indeed, for Intelligence agencies."

One oddball does not a police force make.
Can you give us an example of a police force, or indeed an intelligence agency, 'using' a 'psychic', as opposed to having their time wasted by someone who is either lying or deluded? (Those are the two possibilities.Psychic ability is not a possibility)
Since it is not unknown there should be at least one verified example out there.