Is Biden retarded???

[billydkid]

Did you hear his last big gaff? McCain doesn't need advisors. All he needs to do is listen to Biden and then repeat it back.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4535043.shtml

[geni]

Biden is saying a lot but the media mostly ignore it makeing it easy for McCain to distort the record.

[bozothedeathmachine]

I saw that this morning and thought "what the hell?"

Biden needs to put a filter on the brain-mouth thing he's got going on. I understand the point he was trying to make -at least I think I do, this one's a doozy though- and I can't think of a worse way to word it.

McCain's response:
“Sen. Obama won't have the right response, and we know that because we've seen the wrong response from him over and over during this campaign.” I think this one is pretty weak. He was given this thing on a silver platter, and this is all he could come up with? He could have knocked this one out of the park.

[boloboffin]

Yes, that's pretty stupid of Biden to say. The same statement could be made of any new president, McCain included. Just like there are people willing to assassinate the president no matter who he or she is, and for whatever reason, people are going to try to test the mettle of any incoming president.

Biden's heart is in the right place, but his mouth goes all over.

[Lothian]

I doubt very much that he is "retarded".

[Pookster]

Yes, that's pretty stupid of Biden to say. The same statement could be made of any new president, McCain included. Just like there are people willing to assassinate the president no matter who he or she is, and for whatever reason, people are going to try to test the mettle of any incoming president.

Biden's heart is in the right place, but his mouth goes all over.


The amazing thing to me is that it seems most people see through the ill-timed things Biden says for the honesty in it. It seems to be more of an endearing thing than a hurtful one. McCain's problem is he's overplayed the negative card to the point he can't benefit from exploiting Biden's words. Plus, McCain seems to be very inept at using such things to his advantage anyways.

[Grizzly Bear]

Retarded... I'm hesitant to go that far, but it just adds to his other major gaffes... I think he speaks before he thinks about the impact of what he's saying...

[Augustine]

To add some context to the thread, bolding mine.

ABC News' Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

"Mark my words," the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. "It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy."

"I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate," Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. "And he's gonna need help. And the kind of help he's gonna need is, he's gonna need you - not financially to help him - we're gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."

Not only will the next administration have to deal with foreign affairs issues, Biden warned, but also with the current economic crisis.

"Gird your loins," Biden told the crowd. "We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man. This is more than just, this is more than – think about it, literally, think about it – this is more than just a capital crisis, this is more than just markets. This is a systemic problem we have with this economy."

The Delaware lawmaker managed to rake in an estimated $1 million total from his two money hauls at the downtown Sheraton, the same hotel where four years ago Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., clinched the Democratic nomination. Despite warning about the difficulties the next administration will face, Biden said the Democratic ticket is equipped to meet the challenges head on.

"I've forgotten more about foreign policy than most of my colleagues know, so I'm not being falsely humble with you. I think I can be value added, but this guy has it," the Senate Foreign Relations chairman said of Obama. "This guy has it. But he's gonna need your help. Because I promise you, you all are gonna be sitting here a year from now going, 'Oh my God, why are they there in the polls? Why is the polling so down? Why is this thing so tough?' We're gonna have to make some incredibly tough decisions in the first two years. So I'm asking you now, I'm asking you now, be prepared to stick with us. Remember the faith you had at this point because you're going to have to reinforce us."

"There are gonna be a lot of you who want to go, 'Whoa, wait a minute, yo, whoa, whoa, I don't know about that decision'," Biden continued. "Because if you think the decision is sound when they're made, which I believe you will when they're made, they're not likely to be as popular as they are sound. Because if they're popular, they're probably not sound."

Biden emphasized that the mountainous Afghanistan-Pakistan border is of particular concern, with Osama bin Laden "alive and well" and Pakistan "bristling with nuclear weapons."

"You literally can see what these kids are up against, our kids in that region," Biden said in recalling when his helicopter was forced down due to a snowstorm there. "The place is crawling with al Qaeda. And it's real."

"We do not have the military capacity, nor have we ever, quite frankly, in the last 20 years, to dictate outcomes," he cautioned. "It's so much more important than that. It's so much more complicated than that. And Barack gets it."

After speaking for just over a quarter of an hour, Biden noticed the media presence in the back of the small ballroom.

"I probably shouldn't have said all this because it dawned on me that the press is here," he joked.

"All kidding aside, these guys have left us in a God-awful place," he then said of the Bush regime, promptly wrapping up his remarks. "We have the ability to straighten it out. It's gonna take a little bit of time, so I ask you to stay with us. Stay with us."

The argument that the media "ignore Biden, making it easier for McCain to distort the record" overlooks the fact that this was a closed-door fundraiser (somewhat akin to Obama's San Francisco "bitter, gun-clinging" event) where Biden was speaking unaware of the media's presence, and promptly wrapped up once he noticed them. As such, it provides interesting insight into how he really feels.
Additionally, while we may argue whether the same statement can be made of any new president, it is abundantly clear that that is not what Biden is referring to. He specifically recalls President Kennedy, who was a young and inexperienced (at least as regards foreign policy) President when he took office.

[TheDeeMan]

Yes, that's pretty stupid of Biden to say. The same statement could be made of any new president, McCain included. Just like there are people willing to assassinate the president no matter who he or she is, and for whatever reason, people are going to try to test the mettle of any incoming president.

Biden's heart is in the right place, but his mouth goes all over.

God love him. Joe's justgot foot in the mouth disease. :)

Dee

[Puppycow]

Oh well. Knew that those famous Biden gaffes would be part of the package.
I think it's already been "priced in" as they say.

[corplinx]

The hair plugs have burrowed into his brain.

[bozothedeathmachine]

The amazing thing to me is that it seems most people see through the ill-timed things Biden says for the honesty in it.
At least here they do. I bet they're frothing at the mouth on Hannity.com

I think the public at large, and by that I mean people who aren't completely ignorant of the political players know that Biden is a gaffe factory and willing to separate the wheat from his verbal chaff.

However, if elected and they take a nose-dive in the polls I don't think people will have their parsers turned down so low, like they don't with certain ineloquent-as-can-be current presidents.

[Nyarlathotep]

Wow, I guess he figured the media would be so busy with Palin that what he says doesn't matter. The "I've forgotten more about foreign policy than my collegues ever knew" comment was especially endearing.

[TheDeeMan]

Oh well. Knew that those famous Biden gaffes would be part of the package.
I think it's already been "priced in" as they say.

Now that's comedy. LOL!

Joe should have learned from Obama's "they cling to guns and religion" gaffe that someone is alwasy watch and just waiting for you to put your foot in your mouth.

Unfortunately putting his foot in his mouth is Joe's favorite pastime. :)

Dee

[bozothedeathmachine]

Joe should have learned from Obama's "they cling to guns and religion" gaffe that someone is alwasy watch and just waiting for you to put your foot in your mouth.


Nah, the other way around. Biden has been making gaffes since Obama was in Bobba Fett underoos.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I doubt very much that he is "retarded".

I think the PC term is mentally challenged.

[TheDeeMan]

Nah, the other way around. Biden has been making gaffes since Obama was in Bobba Fett underoos.

Now that's comedy. :)

But unfortunately everyone wasn't walking around with cell phones with cameras just wating to make you a star on Youtube when Obama was in underoos.

Dee

[TheDeeMan]

I think the PC term is mentally challenged.

Joe is just good hearted, stream of consciousness stupid. He just doesn't know when to shut up.

Dee

[Peephole]

Did you hear his last big gaff? McCain doesn't need advisors. All he needs to do is listen to Biden and then repeat it back.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/20/politics/fromtheroad/entry4535043.shtml
That's considered a gaffE now? All this is, is Biden speaking candidly. Just because it isn't "politically convenient", doesn't make this the worst thing anyone has said during this campaign.

That price probably goes to John "THE ECONOMY IS STRONG" McCain.

[bozothedeathmachine]

Joe is just good hearted, stream of consciousness stupid. He just doesn't know when to shut up.

Yeah. He'll be a lot of fun to watch in the VP seat over the next few years.
He'll provide hours of entertainment.

This administration, should they win, will provide the right wing demagogues with tons of ammunition, despite all of their moaning...especially those on the radio. President ObaMarx will provide the ideologies to rail against and Binden will provide the sound bites.

[billydkid]

That's considered a gaffE now? All this is, is Biden speaking candidly. Just because it isn't "politically convenient", doesn't make this the worst thing anyone has said during this campaign.

That price probably goes to John "THE ECONOMY IS STRONG" McCain.
Thank God for the spelling police. Where would we be without them?

[calebprime]

Someone explain to me what the gaffe is?

Pretend I'm from some future Idiocracy, and keep it to two or three simple declarative sentences. Nothing too complicated.

None of this knowing but slanted stuff. Don't be clever.

Explain it to me as if I were 7 years old.

Given the context and intent, what was so dumb about what he said?

[bozothedeathmachine]

Someone explain to me what the gaffe is?

Pretend I'm from some future Idiocracy

What Biden meant to say: "All these 'inexperience' comments are nonsense. In 6 months some jackass overseas will start beating their chest just to see what's up with the new Pres. Never fear, for then you will know the right choice was made. Since it's going to happen anyway, we don't need the other guy to invite it."

How it can be (mis)interpreted: "In 6 months some jackass overseas will start beating their chest just to see what's up with the new Pres. Then you will wish you would have voted for the guy with experience; whose made 'the right decisions.' "

That's my take.

P.S. If you're from the future, what are this week's lottery numbers?

[PitPat]

I think the PC term is mentally challenged.


How unforgivably offensive. The proper term is developmentally delayed. (Sure, 'delayed' means 'never', but hey it makes the parents feel better.)

I think Biden gets off a little easier by the press because there's usually some underlying truth behind the occasional clumsy way he expresses ideas and partly because they're used to it.

I am a little turned off by his statement of policy effects not being initially apparent. Sounds like he hedging his bets against what are simply poor decisions (like Bush's claim that his decisions will be judged by history). If Obama warns the people at the outset that X decision will start out with negative returns, but just watch, it'll get better, then fine -- America can gird its loins and brace itself. But that seems unlikely to me. With a Dem controlled Congress on his side, Obama won't have much of an excuse for bad policy calls, which he will certainly make like all presidents, just hopefully not the biggies.

[Lothian]

I think the PC term is mentally challenged.Oh you mean 'special'.

[Nogbad]

I am not sure I see the gaffe. Is being realistic and honest a gaffe these days? Of course there will be testing to see what Obama's policies are - to comment on this shows awareness and a degree of preparedness - this is a bad thing? I am not surprised McCain's response is relatively low key - what could he say? No, Biden's wrong - the other leaders will give Obama a free ride?

The only thing open to McCain is "Yes, this is the nature of International politics. Biden is spot on and I am the better man to deal with these issues". He then has to convince the electorate that in the round (covering all the issues) he is the better man to deal with all the challenges.

One might say Biden's only error is to discuss an area where Obama might be perceived to be weaker - McCain is perceived weaker on the economy but this should not prevent Palin talking about the economy - shirley :boggled:

[calebprime]

P.S. If you're from the future, what are this week's lottery numbers?

/*Idiocracy/

1,1,2,1 kick your ASS!

/Ideocracy/

[Augustine]

While not quite a gaffe, comparisons to Kennedy may serve Obama well in the context of "inspiration" or "invigoration of the young voters" but should be avoided in the context of foreign policy. Kennedy made several missteps in foreign policy (Berlin Wall, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam). He was perceived as weak and naive by the Soviets. Several of his mistakes had repercussions for decades, if not up to present day (Kennedy CIA-sponsored Baath Party coup in Iraq, for example).

Let's see if I follow Biden:
A President Obama will be tested within six months by an international crisis generated by a nation to "test his mettle".
It will look like we are making mistakes ("not initially apparent that we're right".)
Our polling numbers will suck.
Our decisions will be unpopular. But that's because they're really sound, and sound decisions are unpopular.
When this happens, ignore all of it, trust us, and stick by us anyways. Use your influence within the community to prop us up.

My irony meter is off the scale. I mean, when, after the Democratic party constantly criticizes President Bush as being unable to admit a mistake, Obama refuses to admit that he was wrong about the surge, my irony meter got a workout. Now, what Biden is asking for, pre-emptively, seems to me to be the exact thing Bush and the Republicans are criticized for...:rolleyes:

[chipmunk stew]

Isn't this just Straight Talk? Where's the gaffe?

Honestly, Biden consistently comes across to me as the guy McCain is trying to be.

[gtc]

Never mind, I read the post with the context and it is kind of clear.

Without the context, this line 'we're going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.' sounds like he is suggesting that Obama will generate the crisis. Truthers will love it.

[SnuggleSmacks]

As an Obama supporter, even I had some misgivings when I saw the video for this. It's only that he seemed so sure that something is going to happen...almost as if he knows what is going to happen. I have no issue with Biden speaking off the cuff, and yes, he does say some dumb things, but this seemed a bit different. It came across as more of a warning than a guess, which makes me wonder what it is that he knows.


ETA: That was my first reaction. My second reaction was...it's not what he knows, it's what he's planning. The gist seemed to me to be: "Something big is gonna happen, and you guys are not going to like our decisions at first, but then you'll see that it's for the best." That made me nervous.

Did anyone else get that feeling?

[Magyar]

Wasn't it just a few years ago that every republican under the sun was whinning about term limits and how congessman should serve their 2 terms and then move on.

So now that Obama is doing pretty much exactly THAT - he doesn't have enough experience. I guess that term limits are only valid when it benefits their political agenda!


I was hoping that the Biden comment was jsut out of context or something. And yes, it was a pretty stupid way of putting it, pretty palinisk.

[gtc]

As an Obama supporter, even I had some misgivings when I saw the video for this. It's only that he seemed so sure that something is going to happen...almost as if he knows what is going to happen. I have no issue with Biden speaking off the cuff, and yes, he does say some dumb things, but this seemed a bit different. It came across as more of a warning than a guess, which makes me wonder what it is that he knows.


ETA: That was my first reaction. My second reaction was...it's not what he knows, it's what he's planning. The gist seemed to me to be: "Something big is gonna happen, and you guys are not going to like our decisions at first, but then you'll see that it's for the best." That made me nervous.

Did anyone else get that feeling?

That was the impression I got too. However, and I am not an Obama supporter, I am sure he didn't mean it that way. Which makes it just odd.

I bet it will be used as proof of the NWO sooner or later.

[TheDeeMan]

I am not sure I see the gaffe. Is being realistic and honest a gaffe these days? Of course there will be testing to see what Obama's policies are - to comment on this shows awareness and a degree of preparedness - this is a bad thing? I am not surprised McCain's response is relatively low key - what could he say? No, Biden's wrong - the other leaders will give Obama a free ride?

The only thing open to McCain is "Yes, this is the nature of International politics. Biden is spot on and I am the better man to deal with these issues". He then has to convince the electorate that in the round (covering all the issues) he is the better man to deal with all the challenges.

One might say Biden's only error is to discuss an area where Obama might be perceived to be weaker - McCain is perceived weaker on the economy but this should not prevent Palin talking about the economy - shirley :boggled:

The thing is the VP's job while running is as the attack dog AND to do no harm. Giving the opposition ammunition to attack your guy by raising doubts about his inexperience on international affairs is not "doing no harm".

But people tend to live in the NOW. And compared with the Dow dropping another 270+ points today, the NOW is the economy and not what MIGH happen a year from now.

Dee

[UnrepentantSinner]

/*Idiocracy/

1,1,2,1 kick your ASS!

/Ideocracy/

:D

Never mind, I read the post with the context and it is kind of clear.

Without the context, this line 'we're going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.' sounds like he is suggesting that Obama will generate the crisis. Truthers will love it.

I was thinking the same thing myself. It's bad enough were we have to worry about context to the point where political oppenents will jump all over them, but we have to worry about truthers making hay from statements for years to come.

[TheDeeMan]

Well, as long as Palin keeps saying things like there's real patriotic amercia (you know, conservative republican leaning) as opposed to other parts of america (you know, liberal democrat leaning) to balance out Biden being Biden, I don't think the Dems have anthing to worry about really.

Dee

[KoihimeNakamura]

He could also be refering to the fact that some things, even if we act now, will not show changes for a while

[Damien Evans]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Retardation

No, Joe Biden is not retarded.

[TheDeeMan]

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Dee

[UnrepentantSinner]

Was watching Fox and Friends this morning and Laurence Eagleburger was on (basically) decrying how Biden was admitting that the TerroristsTM (or Iran or pick your boogie man of choice) would be testing an Obama presidency within six months with the addenda that Colin Powell was a dishonorable person for appearing on Meet The Press with no other purpose than to announce his advocacy of Obama after eschewing dirty, dirty politics for the last number of years.

Forget Biden's Yogi Berraism, is anyone at McCain HQ vetting the public pronouncements that apparachnicks from Palin on down are making?

[TheDeeMan]

Nope. They turn a blind eye.

And Fox and friends are so in the tank for McLame it isn't even funny. For instance, the Dow at this moment 10.57am EST is down about 300 points and they're talking up some Bill Aryers video from 2002.

Perspective is not high on their agenda.

Dee

[billydkid]

what did I tell you? McCain's current ad consists not only of Biden's words, but of Biden himself speaking them. I don't care how you cut it, it was incredibly stupid.

[TheDeeMan]

True. But the Dow is going to OPEN at 550 pints down and that's just because that's the lowest point it can start at. If it weren't it would be lower. Meaning? We're about to take it in the ass for yet another day. Translation? No money in your pocket because of an economy that's swirling the bowel trumps Biden's stuipdity.

Obama knows that Colin Powell's endorsement and his press conference the other day with his military advisors did more to help him then Biden did to hurt him. That's why he did it.

Dee

[leftysergeant]

Of course somebody is going to test Obama. They do it to every president.

It will take years to correct the damage that the GOP did to our defenses overe the last 28 years. Difference is that Obama, being a bit brighter than any of the fools who have held the opffice in the last 28 years, is more likely to make the right decision to respond to the challenge.

If McCain became president, he would be tested, too. McCain, being a sociopath and a bit senile would probably bomb Iran to punish Pakistan for not helping us catch ObL.

I don't see Biden's remarks as being any more than "It will get worse before it gets better."

It won't get better after being worse if it gets worse on the watch of an imbecile.

[billydkid]

Of course somebody is going to test Obama. They do it to every president.

It will take years to correct the damage that the GOP did to our defenses overe the last 28 years. Difference is that Obama, being a bit brighter than any of the fools who have held the opffice in the last 28 years, is more likely to make the right decision to respond to the challenge.

If McCain became president, he would be tested, too. McCain, being a sociopath and a bit senile would probably bomb Iran to punish Pakistan for not helping us catch ObL.

I don't see Biden's remarks as being any more than "It will get worse before it gets better."

It won't get better after being worse if it gets worse on the watch of an imbecile.
But it's not about how bad Biden's remarks actually are, it's about the fact that he pointlessly gave McCain ammo and that is just stupid and the proof of it that McCain took the audio of Biden's speech and that became the commercial. I don't care, when the opposing campaign can play your own speech back alone and use that to damn you, that is just stupid.

[normdoering]

Did you hear his last big gaff? McCain doesn't need advisors. All he needs to do is listen to Biden and then repeat it back.

And yet, in spite of all the gaffes Joe the senator supposedly makes, Obama's poll numbers keep going up and John the candidates keep going down. Maybe Joe the senator is even smarter than he often looks and sounds and his gaffes aren't all that gaffy:

http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-bidens-gaffes.html

When you're as far behind as McCain is, you've got nothing left but Biden's crumbs and the attempt to make this mole hill into a mountain. Alas, the crumbs Biden's been giving them might have a bit of rat poison hidden inside.

McCain said we don't want a "president who invites testing" and then went on to claim that he had already been tested because he was on board the USS Enterprise off of Cuba when America came close to nuclear war. Then he said a noun, a verb, and "Joe the plumber." I fail to see how McCain was tested by sitting on an aircraft carrier off of Cuba. And just bringing up images of Kennedy and the cold war also brings up the images from Kubrick's movie, Dr. Strangelove and I recall how much McCain sounds like one of the characters in that movie.

It's strange, all these gaffes that Joe the senator is supposedly making only make me respect and admire the man more than I did before. Every time the right-wing pundits call attention to one of them, my first thought is usually: "that's it, that's all you've got against this guy?" And then I think of all the gaffes I'd probably be making if I were in his shoes.

Joe the senator sometimes gets his facts wrong, but he doesn't get important and relevant facts wrong, like when McCain mixed up Sunni and Shiite. I don't think he gets policy too wrong, not like McCain advocating deregulation days before the Wallstreet meltdown and about a month before Greenspan admits that the philosophy behind deregulation is flawed. And political gaffes, that's when you offend some interest group perceived to be important to your success, well nothing Biden has said was as bad as Obama's "they're bitter and clinging to their guns and religion" line.

None of these guys are gaffe free, but Biden's gaffe's have been the mildest of all of them. The worst they do is make him sound too honest for his own good.

[billydkid]

Isn't this just Straight Talk? Where's the gaffe?

Honestly, Biden consistently comes across to me as the guy McCain is trying to be.
I know what you are saying, but I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. This is politics. Truth is secondary. The opposition campaign is going to scrutinized everything you say looking for something to use against you. Being courageous and honest is fine - but it has never gotten anyone elected. It may and probably will amount to nothing in terms of the result of the election. If the other campaign can use your words verbatim in their campaign ad it's a gaffe.