"Which elites shall rule?"

[zaphod2016]

I just found a rather disturbing comment from George Wills, coming to you care of The Real News (http://www.therealnews.com/):

"The question we settle in election is not WHETHER elites shall rule, but WHICH elites shall rule"

Watch the video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNpNzDoH1II) (quote appears at 00:32, so you can skip the Chomsky interview if you aren't a fan).

Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Why?

I agree with it. I think the reality is, it isn't what you know, it's who you know, and the affluent tend to be rather interconnected with the affluent. I think this oligarchy exists as the result of a natural evolution in society; most of people I've talked to don't care much about politics, and would rather be left alone to live their lives. In my experience, a certain type of person tends to seek power, far more often than others: sociopathic egomaniacs. Be it a politician, or the head of a Home Owners Association, the fascist mentality is self-evident in most leaders I have encountered.

[Horatius]

I just found a rather disturbing comment from George Wills, coming to you care of The Real News (http://www.therealnews.com/):



Watch the video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNpNzDoH1II) (quote appears at 00:32, so you can skip the Chomsky interview if you aren't a fan).

Do you agree or disagree with this statement? Why?

I agree with it. I think the reality is, it isn't what you know, it's who you know, and the affluent tend to be rather interconnected with the affluent. I think this oligarchy exists as the result of a natural evolution in society; most of people I've talked to don't care much about politics, and would rather be left alone to live their lives. In my experience, a certain type of person tends to seek power, far more often than others: sociopathic egomaniacs. Be it a politician, or the head of a Home Owners Association, the fascist mentality is self-evident in most leaders I have encountered.



When did "elite" become equivalent to "fascist"?

[LibraryLady]

Around 1956, when Adlai Stevenson ran for President, and "intellectual" became a dirty word.

[Horatius]

I stand corrected, then.

[PhantomWolf]

If you assume that the elite are best and brightest among us, then why shouldn't we put them in charge, it'd be a much better idea than putting the idiots there, I mean, look at where that's got us.....

[Donal]

I agree with it. I think the reality is, it isn't what you know, it's who you know,

Thats common in every facet of life, not just politics. Still, you do need to show some ability. Also, its still possible for a gifted person with a lot of drive to get to the top.

and the affluent tend to be rather interconnected with the affluent.

Because human beings tend to hang out with those like themselves. We're tribal. Thats why I tend to hang out with 30 year old single people that drink more than they should. I'm comfortable around them.

I think this oligarchy exists as the result of a natural evolution in society; most of people I've talked to don't care much about politics, and would rather be left alone to live their lives. In my experience, a certain type of person tends to seek power, far more often than others: sociopathic egomaniacs. Be it a politician, or the head of a Home Owners Association, the fascist mentality is self-evident in most leaders I have encountered.

Dude, why the negative stereotypes? Just because a person has a type-A personality doesn't make them a dictator in waiting.

Personally, I think you just don't like taking orders.

[seayakin]

I think we might need to define elitist.

[JimBenArm]

Well, I'm in favor of Masonic Jewish Bankers myself.

[seayakin]

I think its the PFJ personally

[moon1969]

David Rockefeller or Jay Rockefeller are not like the great John D. Rockefeller.
John D. Rockefeller was a great man and much much smarter man then Bush or Cheney. So elite will never rule because the current elite elite is not capable of ruling greatly. The Rothschild family doesn"t even have that much power anymore and George W. Bush messed up. So there really is no elite that can rule the world. Maybe business elite but not an individual or a powerful family. Vladimir Putin rules the former oligarchs so they have no power anymore. Boris Berezovsky lives in exile in London and Vladimir Gusinsky lives in exile in Spain. Yukos declare bankruptcy and Mikhail Khodorkovsky is in jail and Leonid Nevzlin lives in exile in Israel. Even Jack Abramoff is in jail. Roman Abramovich, Alisher Usmanov and Oleg Deripaska might have some power but Putin will probaly take that away. World would be a better place if there really was some elite ruling but government and state rule the people and markets rule the world. Warren Buffett, George Soros, Bill Gates, Ted Turner or Rupert Murdoch are not the elite because they don"t control the markets.

[dudalb]

When did "elite" become equivalent to "fascist"?


And the word "Fascist" is being tossed around an awful lot ,and with the same care in it's use that the word "Communist" was used by Joe McCarthy.

[Skeptic Guy]

Or "Socialist" by John McCain.

I'm not sure why the bad connotation of "elite" in the OP.

[theprestige]

And the word "Fascist" is being tossed around an awful lot ,and with the same care in it's use that the word "Communist" was used by Joe McCarthy.
I'm pretty sure there were rather more Communists, rather more active in subverting American interests in favor of Soviet interests, in McCarthy's time, than there are crypto-fascists engaging in crypto-fascism today.

But hey, it's your claim. If you have reasonable definitions and reliable numbers to back it up, I'll happily accept it!

[dudalb]

I'm pretty sure there were rather more Communists, rather more active in subverting American interests in favor of Soviet interests, in McCarthy's time, than there are crypto-fascists engaging in crypto-fascism today.

But hey, it's your claim. If you have reasonable definitions and reliable numbers to back it up, I'll happily accept it!

I was not making any claim. I was saying the word Fascist is being used an awful lot as a general purpose smear word for somebody whose politics you don't like, like the term Commie was in the 50's.
Unless you think everybody McCarthy Accused of being a Communist was one.

[LightinDarkness]

Psst.

I'll tell you a secret.

There are no "elites" as CT presents them. The source of all CT that involves the mysterious "elites" is populism: blame the problems on those with more than you.

Those with power and authority may be elite but their is no collusion going on. You can witness that by watching the government day to day - its total chaos.

Without collusion, all these elite BS conspiracies crumble.

[Doctor Evil]

Really, how do you expect me to make a choice without knowing which elites are in the running.

Can you please let me know which elites are out there, and how much will they pay for my support. I will make my choice once the money is in my bank account.

[halfempty]

If you assume that the elite are best and brightest among us, then why shouldn't we put them in charge, it'd be a much better idea than putting the idiots there, I mean, look at where that's got us.....

But isn't this idiot part of the elite? Sort of destroys the mystique of the evil oligarchic geniuses pulling the strings...

[zaphod2016]

Having re-read my opening post, that attitude stinks; it reeks of the victim mentality. And although I am anti-authoritarian, I am a type-A personality, and have led, and been led. I have had good bosses, and bad bosses, and a few in between.

And the term "fascist" is too weighted. I should have used "authoritarian" instead. There are no true fascists in the HOA, although I do wonder sometimes.

I would like to 2nd the request for George Will to define "elites". Obviously, we want our best and brightest to float to the top of the food chain, and obviously we must maintain social mobility to ensure this happens. If any group of oligarchs were threatened by change, and somehow prevented the new class of elites from rising, the system would fall apart. Luckily, I think we have enough competition between our elites to keep this from happening.

I myself have been told I have mad l33t h@><0R skillz, and I take it as a compliment. And I have certainly used connections and friends to find clients and exploit opportunity, but there is also a required level of individual talent. Except in rare cases of Palin-itis, it's not just who you know, although it plays a part.

Define: elite. Are we talking about "best and brightest", or are we talking about "the old boys club" rigging the deck?

I support the former 100%, and oppose the latter 100%. Margin of error: +/- 3%

Also- some of you guys love proclaiming your love of the NWO, and I'll admit- it's a great taunt. But does anyone here really support "the old boys club rigging the deck" definition of elite? I assume EVERYONE is against this definition of "elite", except the good-old-boys themselves. Am I wrong?

[Horatius]

Also- some of you guys love proclaiming your love of the NWO, and I'll admit- it's a great taunt. But does anyone here really support "the old boys club rigging the deck" definition of elite? I assume EVERYONE is against this definition of "elite", except the good-old-boys themselves. Am I wrong?



More work needed. How does the "Old" World Order, which consists largely of "the old boys club rigging the deck", differ from a "New" World Order which will largely consist of "the old boys club rigging the deck"?

The Powers That Be have always tried to rig things in their favour. They usually succeed too. It's only during radical changes like the American Revolution that the old old boys club is thrown out, and a new old boys club is brought in.

In any case, it's always possible for someone of talent to rise to the top, but this will also always be harder than just being born into the right family.

That's not a conspiracy, it's just life.

[zaphod2016]

The Powers That Be have always tried to rig things in their favour. They usually succeed too. It's only during radical changes like the American Revolution that the old old boys club is thrown out, and a new old boys club is brought in.

In any case, it's always possible for someone of talent to rise to the top, but this will also always be harder than just being born into the right family.

That's not a conspiracy, it's just life.

I agree with you 100% on this. However, I think we both sound like moderate Alex Jonesians when we say it. At what point does this understanding of class-ism cross over into CT land? When we hit "alien lizards", I know we're over the line, but it seems like a very blurry line while approaching it.

[SezMe]

I'm pretty sure there were rather more Communists, rather more active in subverting American interests in favor of Soviet interests, in McCarthy's time, than there are crypto-fascists engaging in crypto-fascism today.
What the hell is a crypto-fascist?

[PhantomWolf]

I agree with you 100% on this. However, I think we both sound like moderate Alex Jonesians when we say it. At what point does this understanding of class-ism cross over into CT land? When we hit "alien lizards", I know we're over the line, but it seems like a very blurry line while approaching it.

I don't think that there is anyone that would disagree that the odds are that you'll have more advantages if you are born into a family with money than you do if you aren't. The problem is that many also believe you have no opportunity at all, this isn't true. Many people have become very, very, rich who weren't born into rich families; they just had to work darn hard to do it. I think that Obama actually is a very good model of this. He wasn't born into the "right" family, but he worked hard, did well at school, got himself involved in the right causes to propel himself forward and has got a darn good chance of being the next US President. It shows that if you do the hard yards you can go from the trailer park to the White House, but you have to believe in yourself, stop making excuses about how everyone is out to hold you down and stop you, and work darn hard to get it. Yes others get it easier, but so what, that's life, it's rarely fair and it's rarely a level playing field. In the end it's those that see past that and succeed regardless that deserve the accolades.

[Horatius]

I agree with you 100% on this. However, I think we both sound like moderate Alex Jonesians when we say it. At what point does this understanding of class-ism cross over into CT land? When we hit "alien lizards", I know we're over the line, but it seems like a very blurry line while approaching it.



I'd say it's when you start believing that all rich people, regardless of who they are, where they are from, or what their own interests are, are all conspiring together. When you think that the Queen of England, the Bushes, Bill Gates, The Royal Family of Saudi Arabia, The Rockefellers, the Rothschilds, the Pope, George Soros, and who all knows who else are all backing one single plan, you're engaging in CT thinking.

Just because they're all rich and powerful doesn't mean they agree on everything. Indeed, it doesn't even mean they agree on anything.

[LibraryLady]

What the hell is a crypto-fascist?

Crypto=Hidden or secret

Cryptofacist=Secret Fascist

or it could be a fascist from "Tales from the Crypt." I'm not sure.