Are the Chinese moon walk videos a hoax?

[Wombat]

Hello guys, sorry if the language is funny, I don't write in English that often.

I have a Non-9/11-Zionism-Illuminati conspiracy to check out for you: Some people are claiming that the videos of the first chinese spacewalk are fake.

Link to Youtube video: youtube.com/watch?v=fvz0GZPNIF0
Link to conspiratory Blog entry: justincase.blogage.de/entries/2008/10/20/China-fakes-Space-Mission



The claims I heard so far are:

First Claim: "You should see stars if it was in outer space"
My skeptical response: This is similar to the the moon hoaxers claims that there should be stars on the Apollo mission images.
The exposure doesn't allow for the stars to be visible - a google image search for spacewalk didn't turn up any results where you can actually see the stars - even on pictures with much higher quality.

Second Claim: "The coulds change in an unusual way around 5:40 to 5:50 because a video loop is coming to an end"
I also notice a change, but I think you can explain this with the changing exposure of the camera.



Overall I think that the videos are real, but not because I am a video expert, but because I think that it is implausible that China would fake the mission and that they would make such stupid errors like using a 5-minute earth shot for a background.

If the video was a fake, they would also have to fake some effects like the swinging rope at around 8:25, which looks very space-like

So what are your thoughts?

[Shrinker]

Have stars ever shown up in a spacewalk film or video? Ever?

You're right, it's all about exposure. When the clouds get brighter, everything else in the shot does too...

The 'bubble' is tricky to explain exactly, but a small bit of debris snapping off something and flying away would look just the same.

[Horatius]

Some people are claiming that the videos of the first chinese spacewalk are fake.

The claims I heard so far are:

First Claim: "You should see stars if it was in outer space"
My skeptical response: This is similar to the the moon hoaxers claims that there should be stars on the Apollo mission images.
The exposure doesn't allow for the stars to be visible - a google image search for spacewalk didn't turn up any results where you can actually see the stars - even on pictures with much higher quality.







A few years ago, when China first announced their intention to try for a Moon landing, I said the first piece of evidence the CTs would offer for the Chinese Moon videos being fake would be, "They look just like the NASA videos!"


I win!

Or at least I will win, once the Chinese start faking Moon walk videos, rather than just space walk videos.

[Travis]

I sincerely doubt the Chinese Government would sign off on hoaxing people. The PR fallout, if uncovered, would be disastrous. This is a society where honor and "face" mean a great deal after all.

[Trojan_Jockey]

I think the key is that if it has nothing to do with America or Zionists then the CT's won't be interested. Truthers tend to believe everything that comes out of totalitarian states and doubt everything from open societies. So this won't even interest them, even if it is ********. But hey, that makes them even cleverer, right?

[rwguinn]

If there are videos showing Chinese walking on the moon, yes, they are a hoax. They have not got to the moon yet.
If they are "Space Walk" (In-orbit EVA), then it is likely they are real.

[Wombat]

I sincerely doubt the Chinese Government would sign off on hoaxing people. The PR fallout, if uncovered, would be disastrous. This is a society where honor and "face" mean a great deal after all.
I'm not so sure about that. Remember the Olympics? Pre-teen gymnasts? Sure, this is bigger, but it shows their attitude.

I think the key is that if it has nothing to do with America or Zionists then the CT's won't be interested.
You think so? China -> Communism -> Trotsky -> Jews. Trust me, they can *always* find a link. ;)


And yeah, it should have been "space walk" not "moon walk"... :o

[Trojan_Jockey]

You think so? China -> Communism -> Trotsky -> Jews. Trust me, they can *always* find a link. ;)


That's true, but I think the old Communism/Jews obsession has died now, particualrly as western democracies grew more powerful and communism collapsed. The point is that the modern CT is obsessed with his/her own government. They wouldn't question what the president of North Korea or Iran says because thats exactly what the government want you to do! It's a awful situation to be in, but if you want to be a true CTist then you gonna have to ignore what goes on in totalitarian states and focus on those evil open societies instead.

I just bet you would never find a CTist interested in a non-American conspiracy theory. It does nothing for the image they try to portray.

[Jonnyclueless]

I don't buy for one minute that that's the moon. Clearly they are just using some space craft and did a terrible job of disguising it as the moon. The wires and solar panels are a dead give away. There wouldn't be nearly as many wires and solar panels sticking out of the moon.

[Horatius]

The wires and solar panels are a dead give away. There wouldn't be nearly as many wires and solar panels sticking out of the moon.



But what about the wires and solar panels from the alien cities that NASA airbrushed out of the Apollo photos? Huh? What about that?


PWNED!

[Wombat]

A quick Google search surfaced some new interesting items:


1. en.epochtimes.com/n2/china/shenzhou-vii-fake-spacewalk-5809.html
Very convincing article, I suggest everybody who is interested in this has to read that. Although I don't know enough about the atmosphere abnormalities he talks about, the water bubbles he mentions are clearly visible

However, in the video we can see small objects fly upward with high speed from time to time. For example, at 0 minutes 3 seconds, small objects flew from the cabin door to the top right corner of the screen; at 5 minutes 49 seconds, they emerged from the astronaut’s helmet at the right side of the screen; at 6 minutes 42 seconds, they burst from the capsule; at 7 minutes 17 seconds, they burst from the top left corner of the screen and flew diagonally upward.

I should mention that the epoch times seems to be related to the "Falung Gong" organisation, but a NASA employee with the Name "Qu Zheng" seems to exist

2. Youtube video that shows the bubbles in detail: youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g

3. A news broadcast from "NTDTV": youtube.com/watch?v=mkM_fo3TPI4
Wikipedia says that "NTDTV" is also related to the epoch times and the "Falun Gong" group.

The reporter says that there are 4 distinct astronaut voices, even though only 3 astronauts were on that mission, but I can't verify that claim.

4. A times online article that says that at least some broadcasts are fake:
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4826302.ece.
The second page lists some interesting claims (and also some crazy ones)

I have to say, after seeing the bubbles, I am quite convinced that the videos are in fact fake. The alternative explanation given was "space dust" and it doesn't look like space dust to me.

[Praktik]

Did your search find these?

http://www.astroengine.com/?p=1531

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/10/08/did-the-chinese-fake-their-space-walk/

[Wombat]

No, and the Bad Astronomer was the first site I checked... Should have checked the blog and not the page!

And the second link is very thorough and makes a very convincing case for space debris instead of the water bubbles .

I didn't buy into the atmosphere stuff from the beginning, so my position leans back to "no fake" again.

Thanks for the links Praktik.

[Praktik]

Ya Plait could have gone into more detail thats for sure, true believers would see it as overly dismissive whereas the other link takes the time to really get down to the nitty gritty.

[gtc]

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/25/asia/AS-China-Space-Oops.php

This article is interesting. It seems their official news agency published an article about the succesful launch, two days too soon. Complete with supposed dialogue between the astronauts and ground control.

I guess it is no wonder people are suspicious.

[Praktik]

ya, like the BBC announcing the collapse of WTC 7 before it happened??

No real surprise, they probably had the whole script ready, and scripting would have been in place in both a hoax and non-hoax scenario.

It may only seem noteworthy because we're used to a bit more of a traditional media environment here, instead of a centrally-run media system as in China...

[TheDeeMan]

Didn't India (or was it Pakistan? Or both?) launch a rocket to the moon just recently? And is planning a manned lunar landing in the near future?

Dee

[Travis]

I'm not so sure about that. Remember the Olympics? Pre-teen gymnasts? Sure, this is bigger, but it shows their attitude.

Faking those is one thing, and the evidence on that is still ambiguous. Faking this is more like faking that the Birds Nest entirely, a CGI stadium!

Didn't India (or was it Pakistan? Or both?) launch a rocket to the moon just recently? And is planning a manned lunar landing in the near future?

Dee

India launched a probe that will orbit the Moon. I don't think India has the infrastructural capability to put a person in orbit right now let alone land anyone on the Moon.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

2. Youtube video that shows the bubbles in detail: youtube.com/watch?v=lBL98p0wZ7g


Heh. Starting at 1:42 into that video: "This light source isn't earth. What else would it be?" Gee... I don't know... :rolleyes:

And the claims about the "Earth being in the same spot" and the "clouds moving quickly"? Holy mother of God... Both are handled quite nicely by the likelihood that the camera is pointing backwards, exactly opposite of the spacecraft's direction of travel?

* Cl1mh4224rd sighs in despair.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Genuine moonwalk footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgZEzEDYw-c).

[lee5]

Hmmmm.... that bubble is definitely suspicious.

I am trying to mold myself into a true skeptic but this CT might hold a little water.

We need more details.

China is a very corrupt country. I wouldn't be surprised if they are deceiving people into thinking they are making progress in an attempt to justify more funding.

[JoeyDonuts]

Well, what's probably going to happen now is the exact same video is going to be edited and released by the Iranians who will claim they now have a space program.

Wouldn't be the first time Ahmedinijad & Co pulled a stunt like that :

http://www.hoaxpost.com/2008/10/iranian-missile-test-photo.html
http://vitalperspective.typepad.com/vital_perspective_clarity/2006/09/us_military_int.html

[PhantomWolf]

Well they already call IBM Iran Business Machines......

[zaphod2016]

Having just watched this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxQEHfU6hM), I find myself struck with awe. For those in need of woo, check the comments.

What an incredible achievement for China. I will confess to a prior anti-China bias, but even I have to marvel at this. The Chinese must be feeling very proud of themselves this year, and rightfully so.

:jaw-dropp

Also: with a demo copy of Adobe After Effects, I could edit a video that makes it look like I am floating in space. Hollywood movies routinely contain thousands of tricks to display impossible and fantastic things. So- assuming the Chinese faked this video, why not digitally remove the bubbles too?

[Travis]

If China did attempt this as a hoax you can bet that NASA would have picked up on it. This would have been kicked upstairs and the next thing you know the State Department is negotiating very unfair trade deals with China using the threat of exposing the hoax as collateral.

[moon1969]

China is a paradise compared to North Korea. Thank God there are still people like Deng Xiaoping in China.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Thank God there are still people like Deng Xiaoping in China.

If by that you mean buried there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaoping_Deng), I don't see your point unless you mean as fertilizer. :D

[Björn Toulouse]

.......You think so? China -> Communism -> Trotsky -> Jews. Trust me, they can *always* find a link. ;)



Chinese Joos?

Curse miscegenation!

[Gazpacho]

Second Claim: "The coulds change in an unusual way around 5:40 to 5:50 because a video loop is coming to an end"
I also notice a change, but I think you can explain this with the changing exposure of the camera.
As the troofers have abundantly demonstrated, some people just don't understand the difference between watching a video and being there.

[Safe-Keeper]

There's a long and incredibly educating thread on this somewhere in her already, featuring video clips, images, links to more content, and an amazingly stubborn conspiracy theorist. His name was Rev7 or something. Will try to look it up for you.

[Jonnyclueless]

You can tell the video is fake because it shows the earth as being round.

[Beerina]

Have stars ever shown up in a spacewalk film or video? Ever?

It's been pointed out that the presence of stars in such a photo is evidence of photo fraud.