Joe the Heretic - seek and destroy mission

[kallsop]

Government computers used to find information on Joe the Plumber (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101)

"Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal."

That's an interesting development. One dissenter must not be tolerated in the new common good future. I wonder if the liberal civil rights grievance crowd will be rushing to support Joe?

Hope, change, or else.

[leftysergeant]

One dissenter must not be tolerated in the new common good future.

Actually, Joe is not a dissenter. He is a clueless moron wetting his diaper at the thought that the established order, which, for some obscure reason the twit thinks is to his advantage in hiscurrent situation, might be changed, and that he might be prevented from ever beign the millionaire that, for some equally obscure reason, he thinks he has the brains to become.

I wonder if the liberal civil rights grievance crowd will be rushing to support Joe?

Nope. We have other things to worry about, like the defective ES&S machines in West Virginia.

The creeps he supports made it possible for people to dig up the dirt on him. You make ity possible for the government to spy on people, you make it possible for someone to access the spying apparatus.

He didn't have to run his mouth in the first place. He thought he was going to be a celebrity and put that uppity dark-skinned liberal down on camera. Sorry, there are too many actual victims out there to worry about the discomfiture of dim-witted rednecks and sociopathic sluts who want to stoke racial hostilities.

I am so sick of the GOP playing the victim card while they stomp on the rest of us.

[mhaze]

Government computers used to find information on Joe the Plumber (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/24/joe.html?sid=101)

"Investigators trying to determine whether access was illegal."

That's an interesting development. One dissenter must not be tolerated in the new common good future. I wonder if the liberal civil rights grievance crowd will be rushing to support Joe?

Hope, change, or else.

Amusing that Obama's campaign disagrees with Leftyseargent (from your link):

Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.

Isaac Baker, Obama's Ohio spokesman:

"Invasions of privacy should not be tolerated. If these records were accessed inappropriately, it had nothing to do with our campaign and should be investigated fully," he said.

[Meadmaker]

Amusing that Obama's campaign disagrees with Leftyseargent (from your link):


Good thing Lefty isn't running for President.

I agree with Obama's campaign. Access to those records was an invasion of privacy, and they should be investigated, with appropriate disciplinary and/or criminal actions taken when the circumstances of the access are determined.

[geni]

Direct access to driver's license and vehicle registration information from BMV computers is restricted to legitimate law enforcement and government business.


It is just about posible that dirrect acess is. Is this meant to be of some significance?

[geni]

Good thing Lefty isn't running for President.

I agree with Obama's campaign. Access to those records was an invasion of privacy, and they should be investigated, with appropriate disciplinary and/or criminal actions taken when the circumstances of the access are determined.

Yeah the UK tired that once. Problem is that if your investigation goes anywhere you end up with even token punishments or arresting most of the larger media groups.

[Ausmerican]

Anyone else think Obama should go all 'Project Steve' on this just to get it over with? Get together one or two hundred actual licensed plumbers that are named Joe, Josep, Jose, Josephine, any form of Joe. Then do an ad and tell people;

'These people behind me are all actual licensed plumbers. They are all actually named Joe. And they all feel they will be better off under my tax plan. So the next time someone brings up 'Joe the Plaumber' to you, ask them, Which One?'

The wording of that touches on the fact that Joe the Plumber is actually not a licensed plumber or named Joe without actually attacking him or calling him 'Sam the Plumbers assistant'.

[Drysdale]

Actually, Joe is not a dissenter. He is a clueless moron wetting his diaper at the thought that the established order, which, for some obscure reason the twit thinks is to his advantage in hiscurrent situation, might be changed, and that he might be prevented from ever beign the millionaire that, for some equally obscure reason, he thinks he has the brains to become.



Nope. We have other things to worry about, like the defective ES&S machines in West Virginia.

The creeps he supports made it possible for people to dig up the dirt on him. You make ity possible for the government to spy on people, you make it possible for someone to access the spying apparatus.

He didn't have to run his mouth in the first place. He thought he was going to be a celebrity and put that uppity dark-skinned liberal down on camera. Sorry, there are too many actual victims out there to worry about the discomfiture of dim-witted rednecks and sociopathic sluts who want to stoke racial hostilities.

I am so sick of the GOP playing the victim card while they stomp on the rest of us.

He must be a nazi too huh? Where's his wife beater shirt at?

Wow man, you are a complete leftwing hack. Since he has a differing political view than you do he's fair game for any illegality to smear him? And yet you in your mind take the high ground against 2 supposed nazi's yelling at them no more facism yet condone this. Just wow..

[mhaze]

It is just about posible that dirrect acess is. Is this meant to be of some significance?Yep.
He could go for a couple hundred grand in punative damages. He'd just have to bring in a few hundred examples of damage to him including to his reputation and standing in the community resulting from the release of the info -

like the "Joe the Liar" thread?:D

Here is the federal code (http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1164+0++%2818%20 USC%2); state codes are often tougher: (b) Remedies. - The court may award -
(1) actual damages, but not less than liquidated damages in the
amount of $2,500;
(2) punitive damages upon proof of willful or reckles
disregard of the law;
(3) reasonable attorneys' fees and other litigation costs
reasonably incurred; and
(4) such other preliminary and equitable relief as the court
determines to be appropriate.

The very arguments that are being used to smear Joe are those which have facts gotten a from an unlawful invasion of Joe's privacy.

Duhhh!!!

[Ausmerican]

If I had to hazard a guess I would say this is probably going to turn out to much the same results as the Obama passport breach. Employees with too much curiosity, access and free time.

[geni]

Yep.
He could go for a couple hundred grand in punative damages. He'd just have to bring in a few hundred examples of damage resulting from the release -


Problem finding someone with that much money to sue. Any goverment worker found won't have that amount of cash (at least not in a form that is easy to trace) and proveing news organisations culpability would effectively exaust his finacial rescources long before he got anywhere.

You appear to be under the impression that is some form of fairly unique event. While pinning down excatly what people get up to is of course tricky availible evidence suggests that this is closer to standard operating procedure.

While I can understand the desire to stop this you might be better off choseing a more sympathetic litigant. A richer one would be good too.

[geni]

The very arguments that are being used to smear Joe are those which have facts gotten a from an unlawful invasion of Joe's privacy.


You appear to be confusing facts with arguments. And smear with present in an accurate light.

[Meadmaker]

Yeah the UK tired that once. Problem is that if your investigation goes anywhere you end up with even token punishments or arresting most of the larger media groups. And that's bad because?

Just kidding.

Seriously, though, the media has nothing to do with the investigation. The breach of privacy occurred when the records were accessed and/or given to the media. The most likely culprit is, as Ausmerican noted, a bored employee with too much time on his hands. Assuming that's the case, and you find out who did it, you slap them with a one day suspension and black mark on this year's performance review.

If it's more serious, involving hacking the files, selling the info to a media outlet, or working on behalf of a political operative, you fire or arrest the person, as appropriate.

[T.A.M.]

Anyone else think Obama should go all 'Project Steve' on this just to get it over with? Get together one or two hundred actual licensed plumbers that are named Joe, Josep, Jose, Josephine, any form of Joe. Then do an ad and tell people;

'These people behind me are all actual licensed plumbers. They are all actually named Joe. And they all feel they will be better off under my tax plan. So the next time someone brings up 'Joe the Plaumber' to you, ask them, Which One?'

The wording of that touches on the fact that Joe the Plumber is actually not a licensed plumber or named Joe without actually attacking him or calling him 'Sam the Plumbers assistant'.

A great idea, that would be so easy to accomplish, and would be effective as hell. My concern is Obama's campaign, despite their comments to the contrary, are becoming complacent. They are falling back into the John Kerry trap.

TAM:)

[varwoche]

Yep. He could go for a couple hundred grand in punative damages. Good idea. It's the only way he could afford to buy the business after all. :boxedin:

[geni]

A great idea, that would be so easy to accomplish, and would be effective as hell. My concern is Obama's campaign, despite their comments to the contrary, are becoming complacent. They are falling back into the John Kerry trap.

TAM:)

Not complacent so much as risk adverse. The joe the plumber thing is dieing out. No reason to risk a revival.

[mhaze]

And that's bad because?

Just kidding.

Seriously, though, the media has nothing to do with the investigation. The breach of privacy occurred when the records were accessed and/or given to the media. The most likely culprit is, as Ausmerican noted, a bored employee with too much time on his hands. Assuming that's the case, and you find out who did it, you slap them with a one day suspension and black mark on this year's performance review.

If it's more serious, involving hacking the files, selling the info to a media outlet, or working on behalf of a political operative, you fire or arrest the person, as appropriate.These actions by an employer toward an employee are an implicit finding of guilt. That absolves the employer of culpability but gives Joe an easy case.

[Upchurch]

Remember when Obama's passport records were illegally accessed by US State Department contractors? This is kinda like that.

Good for the Obama Campaign for speaking out against this.

[BenBurch]

Many PIs know how to get drivers records. It happens every day, legal or not. Likely it was a reporter who paid for the information.

[leftysergeant]

He must be a nazi too huh?

No, he's just a stupid redneck with del;usions of adequacy, as far as I can see.

Since he has a differing political view than you do he's fair game for any illegality to smear him?

I am not a fan of people who access records unlawfully. I just do not think he is a matyr. There are people who are getting screwed more painfully, but legally, even if unethically, by the very people that this strutting moron is trying to get elected. Why is the moron not whining about more generalized and less justified invasions of other people's privacy? Why is he not protesting the whole Patriot Act and the abuses for which that opens the door? He knows what sort of effect it can have on people's life.

But that probably does not matter to him because all he can see is government and taxes being the real obstacle to his being all he thinks he can be, rather than his own stupidity.

[MattusMaximus]

Who the hell cares about Joe the Plumber? I sure as hell don't - just another damned non-issue.

[mhaze]

Suuurrreee.

That is why "Joe the Plumber" Google links to 1,380,000 sites.

Your lack of interest has affected real word considerably, eh?

[Ausmerican]

Suuurrreee.

That is why "Joe the Plumber" Google links to 1,380,000 sites.

Your lack of interest has affected real word considerably, eh?

And there are over 62 million Google links for Paris Hilton. Does that make her an issue too? 60 times more of an issue than Joe the Plumber? If not then what has what you have posted got to do with what he posted?

[MattusMaximus]

It has nothing to do with what I posted. Mhaze is just making word salad.

[Augustine]

Bumping to discuss...
http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

Ohio's inspector general is investigating why a state agency director approved checking the state child-support computer system for information on "Joe the Plumber."

Helen Jones-Kelly, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services, confirmed today that she OK'd the check on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher following the Oct. 15 presidential debate.
She said there were no political reasons for the check on the sudden presidential campaign fixture though the Support Enforcement Tracking System.


Coincidentally, Helen Jones-Kelley is a contributor to Barack Obama's campaign...but there "were no political reasons" for the check...sure...:rolleyes:

It will be interesting to see the "party affiliations" of the other offenders - and if they are reported.

[Ausmerican]

Bumping to discuss...
http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/27/copy/joe28.html?adsec=politics&sid=101



Coincidentally, Helen Jones-Kelley is a contributor to Barack Obama's campaign...but there "were no political reasons" for the check...sure...:rolleyes:

It will be interesting to see the "party affiliations" of the other offenders - and if they are reported.

I am not saying that I believe there were no political reasons for this check, there quite possibly were.
Having said that her being a contributor to Obamas campaign is a really weak link that covers many, many, MILLIONS of Americans. If a bank robber is found to have contributed to Obama before robbing a bank are we to assume he robbed the bank to donate the money to Obama? (Yes BaC we know you'd believe it)

And while there may well have been political reasons behind this, there is no reason to assume they go further up the political chain than this woman.

Unless by the same reasoning you would like to assume that McCain was behind Ashley Todd? There is more circumstantial evidence for that after all, she worked for him, however indirectly, and he called her the day of the incident.

[Augustine]

I am not saying that I believe there were no political reasons for this check, there quite possibly were.
Having said that her being a contributor to Obamas campaign is a really weak link that covers many, many, MILLIONS of Americans. If a bank robber is found to have contributed to Obama before robbing a bank are we to assume he robbed the bank to donate the money to Obama? (Yes BaC we know you'd believe it)

And while there may well have been political reasons behind this, there is no reason to assume they go further up the political chain than this woman.

Unless by the same reasoning you would like to assume that McCain was behind Ashley Todd? There is more circumstantial evidence for that after all, she worked for him, however indirectly, and he called her the day of the incident.

I have never said or assumed that anything goes "further up the political chain" than Ms. Jones-Kelley. However, and the Ashley Todd incident is apropos here, the question is why are Democrats closing ranks behind one of their own when they are clearly wrong? If you ask most conservatives, they will tell you that Ashley Todd should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for her false reporting of a crime. Where is the condemnation of Ms. Jones-Kelley? All I see is a lot of minimizing.

This is not a bank robbery. While there may be non-political motives (i.e. she is just a nosy busybody), I would hazard a guess that if this is her first instance of improper records access, then the simplest and most plausible explanation is that it is politically motivated. Again, it wil be interesting to see if the other parties are identified, and what their political affiliations are.