A new baby.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

I am a new parent and have a question regarding my reaction to my new baby. When she cries, instead of feeling pity and wanting to make her feel better, I feel angry and want her just to stop. I know it isn't rational and that she isn't doing anything on purpose and I am looking for suggestions or resources that would perhaps help me adjust my feelings. I do really love her, but it confuses me that I don't have the same degree of patience as my wife. Any constructive comments are appreciated, but, please, I don't need a brow beating. :)

[QuarkChild]

I'm impressed that you have the courage to admit this. I'm sure that if I had a baby I would feel exactly the same way, but I'd probably try to keep my feelings to myself and hide my anger so people wouldn't think I was a bad parent.

Sorry I don't have any advice. Never been there.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Originally posted by QuarkChild
I'm impressed that you have the courage to admit this. I'm sure that if I had a baby I would feel exactly the same way, but I'd probably try to keep my feelings to myself and hide my anger so people wouldn't think I was a bad parent.

Sorry I don't have any advice. Never been there.

Thanks for your response. It is helpful to know that there is at least one other person who speculates that they might feel this way. :)

I don't really want to have to hide my feelings; I want to address whatever issue is causing them and have nice, happy, fluffy feelings instead.

And, I pretty much am concerned that people will view me as a bad parent, but at least here I have a pseudonym and will not have to deal with condescending looks. :)

[uneasy]

I know nothing.

But once I took care of my niece when she was still potty training. For some reasons she was crying and crying. She cried all the way to the potty. She cried on the potty. She cried and cried. I looked at her and I said, "When you cry, you make me sad." She looked at me with soggy eyes, but she stopped crying. I haven't told her yet, but I owe her a great debt for this single moment in her life.

I know nothing. BUT...
In your life, you will get many, many more moments like the one I describe. You are a lucky man.

[Chanileslie]

My only advice is just try to be as patient as possible, and if you are feeling overwhelmed then try to find some quiet time. I used to dissappear into the bathroom with a book when my kids were small. I was never gone for long, but it was long enough to get my breath back, and I was still close enough to hear if anything was going wrong.

I believe that this feeling will pass as you get more adjusted to the new baby. It is a lot of work, emotionally and physically, to have a new born, and it can be very tiring as you are missing sleep. Try to get some extra rest when you can.

Please know that how you are feeling is not unnatural, and that you are not the only parent to feel that way about your beloved child. Nor does it make you a bad parent to feel this way, and I find it admirable that you are willing to admit to this. I probably wouldn't.

Also, try to find a parent group. They can often give you advice and be a support to you as well.

And last but not least, congratulations on your new little one. You now only have to worry incessantly for the next 60 years or so. :-)

[Flame]

Totally normal (especially for men) I know my husband has def felt like that, and I also know he loves the kids dearly.

I've always felt that it's better to let the child cry a bit when you are overwhelmed than to stay.
As long as the child is fed, changed and safe you can safely step away for five minutes to calm down.
Tense and angry parents (which we all are sometimes) make an upset child more upset!

All normal, and congrats on your baby.

ps You're a great dad.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

Thank you. You people rock. :) I think that that is exactly what I needed to hear (or....er...read?)

And thanks for the congrats. Throughout the pregnancy, I kept thinking about all the fun times and fun things I would be able to do with my child, but she always was a little bit older in my day dreams. Heh. :p

[Peach Jr.]

Yes, it's perfectly normal to feel that way. You recognized that it's not a good thing for you to feel that way, or act on that feeling. Unfortunately, there are lots of people who feel like that and act on those feelings. Not good.

I don't think you mentioned whether or not you were alone with the baby when you have those feelings of anger and frustration. If you have family or friends who live close by, try to let them have some time with the baby while you take time for yourself. Get out of the house and walk/run/drive for awhile. As you gain more confidence (and hopefully get some more sleep!), things will get better. Hang in there.

[Eos of the Eons]

Your feelings of anger are understandable. My son is the same way about his siblings. He unconsciouly feels that she is doing it to annoy him. He is a kid and believes that. You are an adult and are confused because you recognize that the baby is not trying to annoy you.

The one thing that helped me when I was tired and less patient was to repeat over and over to myself how the baby must be feeling something that makes her cry. Whether it be that she is also tired, or hungry, or uncomfortable. Also to remember that it is the baby's only form of communication. The baby also has no idea that it causes any sort of reaction from you. It's only intention is to get help for something that it does not understand or cannot fix itself.

We all know that, but to keep reminding yourself gets your unconcious annoyed to succomb to reason for the most part. It's weird, but one part of my brain needs to reason the other part down sometimes. At least it gives you something to do besides just wonder about the anger. Tell yourself "anger only hurts the angry". "Anger won't help the baby stop crying". "There's no reason to be angry because the baby just needs something". That way you start focussing on something other than the anger.


I hope that all makes sense.

[kittynh]

I too dreamed of how great it would be when the baby came...

right...

for the first 3 months I just kind of fed it and thought, "please grow up!" I enjoyed the cuddling and rocking, but both my babies had cries that went right down your spine. And they cried for no apparent reason. With Kitten I remember once putting her down in her crib and begging her "Please stop crying and go to sleep or mommy is going to die!". She wailed louder and I just shook the crib! She actually stopped, but I was shocked. I called my neighbor, the mother of 4 children. She came over and helped me figure out some coping skills. Baby liked the washing machine. Baby liked the swing (I was never going to buy a swing, I was going to rock her), and I liked the babysitter I hired for 2 hours every day so I could just go OUT! I still remember the first day the baby entertained herself for all of 15 minutes. I have a picture of it. I was so thrilled. Then the fun started. Books, interaction, laughter, language. New borns boring, but form 6 months on, great! The baby survived and thrived, and so did I. You may not be a baby person. I'm not. Pool Boy though thinks he's the baby expert. Keep your babies away! He will just grab any baby, and the baby will just LOVE him. Me, I do the toddler - teens just fine, but babies....ick.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

The advice and the stories are all appreciated. Thanks much! I guess the old adage about misery loving company is true. :)

Something I just discovered today which has already made a world of difference is this baby-sling thing. The biggest problem I had was that she gets so fussy when I try to put her to bed. Now, I can carry her around and still do stuff (she says "hi" ;))

[Eos of the Eons]

Aw! Thanks for letting us know-it's good hear that things improve with experience. Every baby is different too. Just when you think you have things figured out! Keep up the great fathering!

[MoeFaux]

Whatever you do - don't shake your baby. I'm sure you know that, but when the opportunity to say it comes up, it's good to mention.
Babies cry and cry and cry some more. If you are upset by it, and it's OKAY to be upset by it - just walk away. There's nothing bad about you if you just put your baby back into the crib and walk away to cool off. And really, sometimes there's just nothing you can do to make a baby happy, so letting them be can be a good idea.
Think, though, how awful you would feel if you couldn't communicate how you felt. Hunger, gas, sleepy, you just didn't know what to do about it. You'd feel awful and cry. It's what they do. Just be so, so glad that your baby doesn't have colic! A colicy baby will make ANYONE nuts, even the most patient mother.

So, my two cents:
if you can't make baby stop, don't stress.
and get yourself a sitter. I was a Nanny and even me just being in the house while the Mom was there was a relief for her. It's nice to have a helping hand.

[Eos of the Eons]

My first was colicky. Then I found Ovol. My other two children were gas bags too, but the Ovol helped it through, and they never had to go through all that pain. Simethicone.

For infants, OVOL Drops provide fast and gentle relief of infant colic, bloating and gas. The Drops quickly break up the gas bubbles to relieve the discomfort of trapped gas, making it easier to burp the baby at feeding time and easier for the baby to pass gas afterward.

Also is Mylicon, etc.

Gripe water did nothing to help. This other stuff was a saving grace!

[Zep]

Only had one myself (OK, Mrs Zep had the baby, technically), but a number of friends and relatives have had little ones too and I can sorta do a comparison.

All babies seem to like to cry a bit anyway when newborn. It's learning what they are crying about that is the tough bit for parents, especially when the kid is just so helpless - can't even scratch themselves if they itch! Food and drink, relief from aches and pains, sleep, staying warm or cool, comfortable clothing, pleasant environment, company of parents - all these are pretty basic requirements. And they will cry if something is not right among these. You just have to work your way through these and make sure they are covered. Sounds like yours may just want to be cuddled!

As mentioned above, after about three or so months, the fun all starts to speed up - more coordinated movements, babbling and "singing" and laughing, concentration and "play", etc. That's when the FUN starts, and Dad gets to be the bestest toy in the world! It's a great feeling - look forward to it!

Have you thought of using a pacifier?

[Vorticity]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
I am a new parent and have a question...
By the way, there is a lot of great child-rearing advice from LukeT and others on my thread here:
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17153

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by Zep


Have you thought of using a pacifier?


My little ones wouldn't take one. I think it's because they were nursed, and the rubber or whatever wasn't appealing to them. I wished they would, and tried all sorts of styles and types. My one year old daughter seems to rely on her bottle now for comfort. It's going to be tough getting bottles away from her.

[kittynh]

my woo woo neighbor told her 2 year old that Santa didn't bring presents to little boys who used a bottle. Nice...

I wrapped up a bottle and put it under their tree when no one was looking (there are 4 kids so no on noticed an extra present). If you are going to teach your kids about Santa, he should at least be a nice guy.

Turst me, they dont take the bottle to college. Though Kitten took Mr.BUnny Rabbit. In fact all the girls at college seem to have little dolls or stuffed animals that are a bit tattered. Not like my stuffed Koala bear Andre. He still sleeps on my bed but I can now take trips without him.

[Eos of the Eons]

That's cute! We have a 'bye bye bottle' book that we read to my son for a few weeks. Then we had a 'throw away the bottles' party where we put all the bottles in a bag and he helped throw them out. He was over 2 years old. I don't remember it being difficult. I'm hoping it goes as smoothly, but I'm just tired. Can't imagine all that right now. I need to remember how well it went last time.

My daughter hasn't attached to any stuffed animals like I did, and like so many others-including some boys. My son loves his puppy. Aylena just doesn't seem to like stuffed animals. Maybe when she gets more social and recognizes that their faces are cute. It would be easier for her to cuddle a toy at night if she wakes up, rather than searching for that elusive bottle of water.

[Zep]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
My little ones wouldn't take one [pacifier]. I think it's because they were nursed, and the rubber or whatever wasn't appealing to them. I wished they would, and tried all sorts of styles and types. My one year old daughter seems to rely on her bottle now for comfort. It's going to be tough getting bottles away from her. Try dipping the pacifier in something they like, like orange juice. Then use it to tickle their mouth so they try to grab it. They will suck on it to get the "flavour" out of it, and after a few times they will not let go quickly (like chewing gum, I suppose).

The next trick that an Italian grandma told us was to put a few drops of masala (a sweet liqueur) on the pacifier if you wanted to make the baby calm down (!!!).

But if your daughter doesn't want it and likes the bottle instead, neh. Kids like the darndest thing!

Incidentally, in Oz we call pacifiers "dummies," and I had to do the translation as I wrote, knowing that my comments would come out REALLY WEIRD for you if I used that word!!!

[Boo]

Originally posted by A_Feeble_Mind
I am a new parent and have a question regarding my reaction to my new baby. When she cries, instead of feeling pity and wanting to make her feel better, I feel angry and want her just to stop. I know it isn't rational and that she isn't doing anything on purpose and I am looking for suggestions or resources that would perhaps help me adjust my feelings. I do really love her, but it confuses me that I don't have the same degree of patience as my wife. Any constructive comments are appreciated, but, please, I don't need a brow beating. :)

I've been letting my mind chew on this for awhile. There is some really great advice here. In particular that once you have fed, diapered, and made sure that baby is dressed comfortably, there is nothing wrong with going outside or in the bathroom and letting the little one cry for a few minutes.

2 weeks after my first daughter was born her father deployed for 6 months (kitty I'm sure you can relate). I was 2,000 miles away from any family and had almost no connections to the community I was in. I distinctly remember feeling the thoughts you have described and the horror I felt at having those thoughts. I truly was afraid of hurting her. It was those moments that shocked me into realizing that I needed help. I went looking for it. I found a neighbor that was willing to watch her for an hour every 2 days so I could spend some time by myself. After a few weeks I started putting her in the car seat and going for those drives with her. She would sleep and I could listen to music and just be peaceful. We both survived.

I am rambling a bit. My point is you are sleep deprived and stressed. Your feelings are perfectly normal; acknowledging them, speaking about them and looking for help is the appropriate reaction. I know that you will survive and someday you will be passing on I remember when stories and helping out another new parent. Quite possibly the one sleeping (maybe) in that crib just over there.

Hang in there. We will be here if you need us.


Boo

[Professor Frink]

Been there, done that! It's part of your boot camp as a parent.

I remember telling my second son to "shut up!" while I was trying to rock him back to sleep, and he was screaming at me (he was about 2 weeks old). I then had to laugh at how ridiculous it was to say that. Especially since I had gone through the same thing with my first son, and I thought "now that I am an experienced parent, I will understand the special needs of the small baby blah blah blah..." No matter how much you think you're ready to handle it, and how logical a person you are, you still lose your cool.

I think new parents have a tendency to treat the baby as if it were an adult - if adults did any of the stuff that babies do, we'd smack them upside the head for being jerks. It takes awhile to relate to the baby on his terms. Even when my 3-year old does something that a normal adult would deserve a smacking for, I have to remind myself "he's only three, and that's not bad for someone his age."

When the smiles start coming in a few months, you'll really start having some fun and you'll forget the screaming and the "shut ups" and things will be great. Hang in there!

[jj]

Babies can be very frustrating, indeed.

Just watch, though, you'll see that gleam of budding intellegence in nothing flat.

Some things to remember:

1) Babies cry. Sometimes just because they can.
2) Babies leak. From all available orifices.
3) Babies eat. Lots.
4) Babies learn. Fast.

Our first could tell if I was annoyed in a flash, even at a couple of months, and would howl even if she was previously happy. She didn't want me to be annoyed, I guess. If I'd pick her up and pat her on the back, she'd sniffle at me until I smiled. She could read mom like a book, I had to train mom that a howl wasn't always something terrible, it could be something like "I'll howl until I think mom is out of the house and then laugh and play"... It would have been good to have had a video camera to show mom just how clear this behavior was. :)

Our second, well, some kids have strong opinions, but could also read mom and dad in a flash.

[Graham]

As a father of four, I second pretty much all of that.

You are definitely better off walking away for a while if you feel yourself losing control, as long as you're sure there's nothing urgently wrong with the baby.

Quick horror story - our third child (who's now four, five?, no four - I'm pretty sure ;) ) was born prematurely with various medical problems and lactose intolerence (which, despite our saying it to the doctors we were told was definitely not the case). Anyway the child screamed pretty much non stop unless she was being rocked (by a person - we got one of those mechanised rocking chairs but she hated it) for three full weeks (night and day). Goodness help me but there were times, mostly around 3 or 4 am after not having slept for a fortnight . . .

Eventually we figured out the lactose thing and, after kicking ourselves mightily (and cursing the doctors just a little unfairly) she quietened down to a more normal level.

The best piece of advice I can give you from my experience is that you are better to give up all hope of sleep. Accept that your night is disturbed and the child is possibly not going to go asleep in the near future. Get it (him/her?) up, get yourself dressed and go watch TV, wrap it up warm and go for a walk or whatever.

You won't feel any better sleep-deprivation wise but it removes a lot of the frustration of standing there trying and trying to get it to sleep and not succeeding.

Oh and remember - he or she will continue to drive you mad for at least the next 18 years but the newborn thing is shortlived. Hold your temper, try to enjoy the enjoyable bits and it'll soon be over.

Graham

[kittynh]

You are so right BOO! Kitten was born while daddy was at sea...I was all alone, and went bonkers. Thank goodness the Captians wife took me and the baby into her home until the boys came back. She had fun playing with the baby. I remember being able to watch the Olympics live, because Kitten thought 3am was her bedtime (1984). with number two I got to enjoy the first Gulf War, which happened just in time for you know who to miss out on those happy early months. My advice, join the military!

[Eos of the Eons]

I can see that valued alone time can keep people sane. I had to cope without those types of luxuries because I was so unable to trust anyone with my baby. Even by number 3 I hadn't gotten over that overprotectedness. I really try to watch that as they get more independent. I was just so afraid someone else would get frustrated and hurt my baby.

I admire all you parents who got around that. Any advice for overly paranoid mommies like me? It's a little late since my daughter is now 1 and goes to a dayhome 4 days a week, but I have no idea what to tell my kids when they have kids. For the first 3-6 months I had a hard time trusting anyone. I had no mom around, or sisters, or Aunts-but still no excuse as I see other moms still found help and got that helpful alone time.

[kittynh]

Hey, when your kids have kids you'll be there for them! If they can't trust you then forget it. I wouldn't trust my mom with my kids, but she did have great help when I was a baby. I had another mom with a newborn when kitten 2 was around. Her child was 2 months early and on a monitor. I took baby CPR and would watch her baby like a hawk. If she trusted me, how could I not trust her with my 10 pound super baby?

You'll get your turn to be grandmother!

[Eos of the Eons]

Yeah, being a grandparent would be the greatest! Send them home when you're tired! I couldn't trust my mom because she was a certified loon after I was six-thank goodness she was okay when my brothers and I were babies.

Baby CPR, grand idea!

[Glory]

A_Feeble_Mind,

I have had those feelings as well. There were times that I felt like my daughter was intentionally being obnoxious though I knew in my rational mind that that was not a possibility. I once put her down in her crib, walked out to the living room and screamed at the top of my lungs. One of my neighbors got worried and called the cops. They came by to check on me and my baby.:rolleyes:

It is true that the first year or so is really hard. Frankly, I still have my less than rational mommy moments and my daughter is now five. I found the most important thing was not trying to be someone I was not. I was surrounded by people telling me to let her cry. They all kept telling me how if I kept picking her up she would never learn to calm herself and never sleep through the night. The last thing I needed was the stress of trying to do what everyone else told me to do when it all felt completely wrong. I finally stoped listening and picked her up and carried her everywhere. I kept feeding her in the middle of the night and I never just let her cry. I would take little breaks but I never just let her cry herself out. I felt a lot better after I started following my gut on the matter and the most amazing things happened. She did learn to calm herself. She did eventually sleep through the night and she is none the worse for my having indulged her.

Regarding bottles and pacifiers, I allowed m\y daughter to use both for as long as hse wanted. I was told by many people that I must get her off the bottles. She didn't need them at night so that wasn't an issue. I once tried to force the issue by giving her a sippy cup and refusing to give her a bottle. She got dehydrated in about nine hours rather than have anything to do with that cup. I never took her bottles away again. Once she started prsechool and discovered straws she never looked back. The pacifier is another matter. She still uses it at night. I have been called all sorts of terrible things for allowing a five year old to continue using a pacifier. I don't care. She will give it up when she is ready. That is what her doctor says. That is what her psychologist says. That is what her dentist says. So there! Don't go against your feelings. Do what you and your wife think is right and everyone else be d*mned.

BTW, my daughter didn't take her pacifier at first either. You have to tickle her mouth with it. Once she took it I had the first hot meal I had had in months so I am a fan of those little things. It still didn't quiet her completely though.

Glory

[Zep]

Just remember this!

Your baby's brain is just as smart as yours is; it just hasn't been filled up with silly crap yet so they can think faster than you.

And...

They are just going through a stage and will grow out of it ... into something else even more obnoxious!

[kittynh]

You said it Zep! You trade one thing for another. and none of this it's over at 18 stuff. Kitten is 19, and she's never been more expensive! (actually she isn't into clothing or buying junk, it's the education...). And they STILL need you and learn from you. However, the Bank of Dad (human ATM machine) closes soon (yeah right...)

[Eos of the Eons]

I never listened to the 'you'll spoil your baby' crap either. It was a lot less hard on me to have a happy baby in a snuggly than a sad whiny baby after crying themself to sleep. That was the first six months, and getting sleep was better than trying to get the little munchkin to sleep in the crib when she was hungry-nursing is easier if you sleep with the kid. I never felt very sleep deprived because she only woke up for a feeding, and then went right back to sleep. That's how she 'slept through the night', and I didn't have to get up at all. Now she has a bottle of water with her in the crib. When she wakes up she finds it and goes back to sleep. Not any different than a pacifier.

I sucked my thumb until I was three. I think a pacifier would have been better for my mouth-I kind of have a bit of an overbite.

My daughter was lavished with attention in the early months, and at one she doesn't have to cling to me or follow me around the house too much. She's one, and likes to play on her own for some minutes. She'll also go in her crib when she's tired, and will go to sleep by herself now.

[Glory]

My daughter is remarkably self sufficient as well. She has been since she was about a year and a half. She checks in with me and then goes off and enetrtains herself for long periods of time. I actually seek her out more often than not. I believe she knows I am always there for her so she doesn't have to go to extremes to make sure. She's happy and I am happy and daddy is happy and that's the bottom line.

I still have moments when I just can't stand another squeal from her though.

Glory

[Eos of the Eons]

Girls are more squeally aren't they :D

Kudos to al the great parents in this thread that have survived to bring such special little people :)

[Zep]

Having one of your own makes you realise all of a sudden that YOU were once the squirmy, whining, squeally, smelly little bundle of noise that your own parents had to deal with!

But then, my mum tells me I was PERFECT as a baby!!!





Although I don't believe her for a minute - I was there, I remember some of the stuff I used to get up to... :)

[NoZed Avenger]

Nice thread. I'm sorry I didn't see it the first time 'round.

I have no advice to add - I just want to agree: you people do rock.


N/A

[CBL4]

Congratulations and my sympathies. I have a 2 month old girl and 21 month old boy. I have 3 pieces of advice one of which would get your doctor very angry:
1) Read the Self-Calmed Baby by Williams Sammons. It is out of print but it is often still in libraries. He says that babies need to learn to calm themselves. He tells of various ways that babies like to calm themselves - sucking their thumb, staring at a light, etc. Try them all when you baby is annoyed but not frantic. See which ones work best.

2) Let your baby sleep on her stomach. I know this second piece of advice will cause all the pediatricians to pull out their hair but the fact is that most (not all) babies sleep better on their stomach. Must of us who are old enough to post slept on our stomachs and lived through it. One bad thing about this is that after learning to sleep on their stomach, babies do not sleep as well in a car seat.

My son was colicky e.g. he screamed his head off every afternoon and evening. After about two months, I got the Self Calmed Baby from the library. We helped him learn to suck his thumb and let him sleep on his stomach. Over the weekend, he went from being a monster to being an angel. Perhaps it was coincidence but I doubt it.

3) When you get mad, start reciting a baby book out loud. It is the equivalent of counting to 10 to prevent anger but it last longer and can actually calm the baby. I recommend Dr Seuss's ABC. She will learn the alphabet earlier and it is harder to stay angry while you say "Aunt Annie's alligator, A, A, A."

CBL

[diddidit]

Great thread! Congrats to the new parents, and don't worry about not liking the little one now. At this stage, for all the work you do, you really don't get anything in return; I felt the same way, and my wife even more so (our kid refused to nurse, and we didn't want to give him formula, so she pumped. and pumped, and pumped - we figured out that in the year she pumped, she spent something like 700 hours attached to that infernal machine). Great things to have: a partner who will let you out (particularly if you're the one spending the most time with the little poop factoy), a detached garage, a pediatrician who tells you you're doing fine, free coffee at work (3 hours of sleep + 96 oz. of coffee = something sort of like functional), and, for when the kid won't settle down, a swing. I bow down to our old swing.

Enjoy the ride!

did

[Hexxenhammer]

I'm sorry I just found this thread too. I'm a new dad as of Nov 1st and all of this is good to hear. That said, I'm feeling really lucky. My new daughter sleeps through most of the night, getting up at about 3 and 6 to eat. Lucky me, she's not on the bottle yet, so I can sleep through these for now. She doesn't cry unless she's really hungry, which is hardly ever because she makes little sucking faces well before she starts crying. If she is crying, I let her suck on the knuckle of my pinky finger and this calms her down. This all might change any time I know but so far I'm enjoying fatherhood. Even if I don't really feel like a father yet. More like I'm babysitting for a really long time.

[Glory]

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
I'm enjoying fatherhood. Even if I don't really feel like a father yet. More like I'm babysitting for a really long time.

That perfectly sums up how I felt about being a new parent. It takes time to bond.

Glory