Pakistan hit by quake-who's gonna help?

[SteveGrenard]

The U.N., the Red Cross and the U.S. Will the Taliban and alQeda, both narco rich groups extorting the cooperation of Pakistanis on the very same border regions where this earthquake ocurred help? I don't think so.


The World Health Organisation (WHO) said it would send enough medical aid and supplies for 50,000 people for three months in the wake of the disaster, while the United States offered an unspecified humanitarian relief package.

"We are currently working with the Pakistani government, the UN (United Nations) and other potential donors to assess the damage," US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters.

"Once we are able to make that assessment and also talk to the Pakistani government about what their needs might be, we will stand ready to provide an assistance package," McCormack said.

Neighbour and rival India quickly offered any help that might be required, along with Turkey's Red Crescent.

Two teams from the International Committee of the Red Cross have already arrived in the area and are assessing the situation and the needs of the survivors, the humanitarian body said from Geneva.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5g4kA_XTKsdH74geyqw68oh_K75Mg


But in spite of all the aid we gave to Pakistan every year for decades, wealth the U.S. can now ill afford to give away, the U.S. is still offering to help in this humanitarian emergency, in the same news cycle we have this:

Pakistan's government summoned the US ambassador today to demand an immediate halt to missile strikes on its territory in the latest sign of escalating tension between the supposed allies in the War on Terror.

The Foreign Ministry said that it had called in Anne Patterson, the US envoy, following a sudden increase in attacks by unmanned American drones on suspected militant hideouts near Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan.

“A strong protest was lodged on the continued missile attacks by US drones inside Pakistani territory,” the ministry said in a statement.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5040353.ece

Should we say screw them? Let's see if the Taliban and alQeda will help them.

[Nero]

One of many organisations trying to garner help:

http://www.islamichelp.org.uk/servepage.asp?page=89

(Gosh, they appear to be Muslims:eye-poppi)

[SteveGrenard]

One of many organisations trying to garner help:

http://www.islamichelp.org.uk/servepage.asp?page=89

(Gosh, they appear to be Muslims:eye-poppi)

Yes they certainly do appear to be Muslim as is the Red Crescent. Do you have evidence this UK based charity has links to AlQeda or the Taliban, because if not, that was my point.

The Islamic charity I most favor is IMANA:


IMANA is known for its relief efforts in various locales around the world, such as Indonesia and Pakistan. After the tsunami hit Indonesia in December 2004, IMANA sent a medical relief team to the region, and shortly thereafter established a clinic to replace several hospitals in Banda Aceh that had been destroyed.

More recently, IMANA has been working with the Pakistan Islamic Medical Association (PIMA) to provide medical relief for the victims of the Kashmir Earthquake. They have provided a significant amount of money through donations. In addition, they are sending medical relief teams to the region, consisting of doctors and healthcare professionals from all over North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Islamic_Medical_Association_of_North_America

Presumably there are other groups in the UK and elsewhere that mirror the work of
IMANA as well. There is also the Organization of the Islamic Convention Countries (OIC) which is a web-based global network dedicated to the prevention of disease.

We should all support their international Supercourse, information at:

http://www.pitt.edu/~super1/lecture/lec32301/index.htm

I believe that one day we can make a difference through the dissemination of
health/medical care including prevention as well as treatment.

[mrbaracuda]

Obviously not "Allah", that's for sure!
Now, some Muslim explain to me why "Allah" would hit the what the radio told me today is one of the poorest regions of Pakistan?

[Dragoonster]

The U.N., the Red Cross and the U.S. Will the Taliban and alQeda, both narco rich groups extorting the cooperation of Pakistanis on the very same border regions where this earthquake ocurred help? I don't think so.

And you'd be wrong, if recent history is any indication. From the 2005 earthquake, also in Pakistan, titled "Earthquake Relief: If we don't help Pakistan, al-Qaeda's friends will":

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=17716&prog=zgp&proj=zme,zsa,zusr

In nuclear-armed Pakistan right now - another of the world's largest Muslim nations, where 65 per cent of the population think favourably of Mr. bin Laden - radical Islamist parties are mobilizing and are in the vanguard of those helping in the most-stricken areas. The void left by the Pakistan government, the United States and the international community has been filled by Jamaat-ud-Dawa and the Al-Rasheed Trust, both groups linked to al-Qaeda, as well as Jammat-i-Islami, the leading radical Islamic party in Pakistan.

Even Pakistani Interior Minister Aftab Khan Sherpao had to acknowledge that the radicals are now "the lifeline of our rescue and relief work."

It's not unusual for terrorist organizations/radicals to woo community support by humanitarian stuff. Hezbollah and Hamas have done so enough to become actual political players. It's a lousy reason for offering aid of course, but so is what you're suggesting be done--for the US to not offer aid in order to make our own point.

If using aid as ideological currency is the reality so be it, but the linked article makes the point that we should still offer aid in order to lessen local views of terrorist organizations as community heroes.

[Just thinking]

Will OBL issue a tape message on this?

Hey ... maybe he's among the rubble!

[SteveGrenard]

It's not unusual for terrorist organizations/radicals to woo community support by humanitarian stuff. Hezbollah and Hamas have done so enough to become actual political players.

Let me know when you have evidence that the drug running Taliban and AlQeda narco-terrosists pitch in and help the victims of this disaster. Then we don't have to bother. On the other hand keep in mind that Pakistan which needs international help, including from us is acting pissed off US troops are pursuing Taliban and alQeda terrorists just over their border.

I think we should send 50 or 60,000 troops and materiel over the SW border between Afghanistan and Pakistan to help these poor people.

[SteveGrenard]

Did you ever stop to consider that the Taliban and alQeda may be too busy doing stuff like this to involve themselves in helping out in a humanitarian emergency of their own people ... people whom they'd rather kill anyway.


KABUL, Afghanistan, Oct. 30 (UPI) -- A suicide bombing Thursday orchestrated by Taliban militants on the Afghanistan Information and Culture Ministry in Kabul killed five people, officials said.

Besides the suicide bombing, militants used small arms fire in the attack, The Times of London reported.

Initial reports indicated two gunmen engaged guards at the entrance to the building as a third man -- the suicide bomber -- ran into the building, detonating the device, the British newspaper said.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/10/30/Five_die_in_attack_on_Afghan_ministry/UPI-51861225364711/

[Dragoonster]

Let me know when you have evidence that the drug running Taliban and AlQeda narco-terrosists pitch in and help the victims of this disaster. Then we don't have to bother. On the other hand keep in mind that Pakistan which needs international help, including from us is acting pissed off US troops are pursuing Taliban and alQeda terrorists just over their border.

I think we should send 50 or 60,000 troops and materiel over the SW border between Afghanistan and Pakistan to help these poor people.

The link I gave was evidence of the your implied request to Nero of "Do you have evidence this UK based charity has links to AlQeda or the Taliban, because if not, that was my point." And the article does suggest that yes, we need not bother with providing aid (aside from being objectively moral of course, which is why we should be imo) as these radical groups will fill the vacuum. I don't feel like playing a shifting-goalposts game though. If you want to know the extent of al qaeda influence on the groups in the post I made, look it up for yourself.

You're arguing two different things here. You seem to favor politicizing aid/relief, I don't. You favor going across the border if Pakistan isn't willing to go after the radicals there, and I agree with you on that. I just don't see why these things should be connected. Or why victims of disasters should be used as currency by any ideology. Is it inevitable that they are, or is it true that radical anti-Americans do? Yes, but I'd rather my country (US) not resort to the same tactics.

[SteveGrenard]

The quake victims are not being used as currency, have no fear. The U.S. and other international aid organizations are going to help. I am not talking about hardline and extremist Islamic organizations inside Pakistan which are also helping, I am talking specifically about the Taliban and alQeda. Because of their ability to escape across the Pakistan border they are able to get away with killing Americans and Pakistan does not want to help us even if we are willing, no strings attached, to help them. I understand that you agree with this. Everyone is entitled to a point of view.


WASHINGTON (AFP) — The US government said Thursday it is sending one million dollars in aid to the victims of an earthquake in Pakistan, and would provide more assistance if needed.

"USAID has provided an initial one million dollars in assistance to help meet the immediate needs of those affected by the earthquake," the US Agency for International Development said in a statement.

The agency said the aid would be distributed through international and non-governmental organizations.

"We are working alongside the Pakistani government and the international community to assess the damage. These assessments will help determine what additional assistance the US might be able to provide," it said.



And in the past we have done this:


USAID said Washington has in the past given more than two billion dollars for programs in Pakistan to improve health, education, economic growth, democratic governance and to rebuild areas hit by the October 2005 earthquake.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jti-iCnDCXEhsIguXfR3XYyvWHCw

[Dragoonster]

The quake victims are not being used as currency, have no fear. The U.S. and other international aid organizations are going to help. I am not talking about hardline and extremist Islamic organizations inside Pakistan which are also helping, I am talking specifically about the Taliban and alQeda. Because of their ability to escape across the Pakistan border they are able to get away with killing Americans and Pakistan does not want to help us even if we are willing, no strings attached, to help them. I understand that you agree with this. Everyone is entitled to a point of view.

Definitely agree. In the months following 9/11 I argued that we should stage from the -stans to Afghanistan's north, because a) allying with a military dictatorship was hypocritical and had/has potential for an identical blowback, and b) we couldn't trust Musharref or Pakistan in general.

I don't think we've politicized crisis relief aid in the past, and maybe I missed your main point. Personally I think we should withdraw all aid to Pakistan's government until they comply with cracking down, but humanitarian crises are a whole different ball game. I think they should transcend any and all political/ideological disputes, and could really care less if al qaeda/taliban gives aid or not. They'll still suck, and Pakistan will still be giving us very little return on our investment.

I better understand your frustration though, and share a lot of it.

[SteveGrenard]

This heartening report came from the NY Times today detailing how ordinary people, Pakistanis, are rising up to fight the extremists. They deserve, at the very least, both their own government's support and ours.


As Taliban Overwhelm Police, Pakistanis Hit Back

By JANE PERLEZ and PIR ZUBAIR SHAH

Published: November 1, 2008
SHALBANDI, Pakistan — On a rainy Friday evening in early August, six Taliban fighters attacked a police post in a village in Buner, a quiet farming valley just outside Pakistan’s lawless tribal region.

(see map at url below)
Casualties have been high in areas near the Buner Valley.

The militants tied up eight policemen and lay them on the floor, and according to local accounts, the youngest member of the gang, a 14-year-old, shot the captives on orders from his boss. The fighters stole uniforms and weapons and fled into the mountains.

Almost instantly, the people of Buner, armed with rifles, daggers and pistols, formed a posse, and after five days they cornered and killed their quarry. A video made on a cellphone showed the six militants lying in the dirt, blood oozing from their wounds.

The stand at Buner has entered the lore of Pakistan’s war against the militants as a dramatic example of ordinary citizens’ determination to draw a line against the militants.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/world/asia/02pstan.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

[SteveGrenard]

This report in the Washington Post Sunday (11/16) should put to rest the speculation about cross border incursions by U.S. forces based in Afghanistan but going after AlQueda or Taliban using Pakistan as a sanctuary:

By Karen DeYoung and Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, November 16, 2008; Page A01


The United States and Pakistan reached tacit agreement in September on a don't-ask-don't-tell policy that allows unmanned Predator aircraft to attack suspected terrorist targets in rugged western Pakistan, according to senior officials in both countries. In recent months, the U.S. drones have fired missiles at Pakistani soil at an average rate of once every four or five days.

The officials described the deal as one in which the U.S. government refuses to publicly acknowledge the attacks while Pakistan's government continues to complain noisily about the politically sensitive strikes.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wpdyn/content/article/2008/11/15/AR2008111502656.html