Formal titles

[BTox]

Anyone else detest formal titles? I refuse to call any person anything other than their first name. Not even the CEO of my company. Doctor, mister, sir, madam? Nope. Your honor? I don't think so. Your majesty? You've got to be kidding...

[geni]

Formal titles are extreamly useful when you can't rember that persons name.

[BTox]

"Yo", "Hey you", and "Bub" work just as well in those situations.

[geni]

Originally posted by BTox
"Yo", "Hey you", and "Bub" work just as well in those situations.

not when they are your lectures/teachers

[zakur]

I always refer to my medical doctors as "Doctor." They've earned it.

[Tez]

Originally posted by zakur
I always refer to my medical doctors as "Doctor." They've earned it.

Really? Your physician has a PhD?

[BTox]

Originally posted by zakur
I always refer to my medical doctors as "Doctor." They've earned it.

I don't believe education, job title or what family one happens to get born into infers any special status.

[BTox]

Originally posted by geni


not when they are your lectures/teachers

You've got a point there. I guess students are stuck. I was thinking of adults in the real world.

[zakur]

Originally posted by Tez
Really? Your physician has a PhD? From Webster's:

doctor

n 1: a licensed medical practitioner

[...]

4: a person who holds Ph.D. degree from an academic institution

And, yes, as a matter of fact, one of my physicians (former physicians, actually, as he is now retired) has a Ph.D.

[Chaos]

In Germany, almost all physicians are "Dr. med." - the same as PhD, I guess.

Anyway, I use any titles people have earned with their own achievements - like "Doctor" -, but not honorary (many career politicians get honorary doctorates, for example) or hereditary titles.
But if I really want something from a titled person, of course I would use any applicable title.;)

[Tez]

Originally posted by zakur
From Webster's:

doctor

n 1: a licensed medical practitioner

[...]

4: a person who holds Ph.D. degree from an academic institution

And, yes, as a matter of fact, one of my physicians (former physicians, actually, as he is now retired) has a Ph.D.

From Websters:

Medium:
an individual held to be a channel of communication between the earthly world and a world of spirits. [emphasis mine]

Dictionary.com has "thought to be".

If the word "doctor" begins to be popularly used to describe monkeys who pick their noses in a special way, it will appear in the dictionary. This does necessarily mean the usage is "correct" (whatever that may mean).

Anyway - I personally don't care, I just have a sister who is a medical doctor and I like to needle her about only being a "physician". To be honest, I'm not sure "earned it" would be the phrase I use to describe my four or five friends (or couple of ex-girlfriends) with MD's. They spent 4 or 5 years devoting a LOT of stuff to memory, they didn't particularly "earn" anything IMO. Now a couple of them are, by all accounts, truly good doctors - they have earned respect from both their patients as well as their colleagues...

To say something more on the topic: I avoid titles, although when living in Vienna it turned out that my bank suddenly switched from active obstruction to obsequious appeasence when I indicated I was "Herr Doktor" and not simply "Herr". This is the only time I have really "used it". When lecturing I found some students could not get to the point of using my first name despite my initial indication that they should - at a certain point insistence on it becomes a distraction and more of an attention seeking stunt than simply responding to whatever someone wants to call you..

[Eventually]

I don't have a problem showing respect for a person by using their formal title as long as they've earned it. Of course, the older I get, the less people earn my respect...

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by BTox
Anyone else detest formal titles? I refuse to call any person anything other than their first name. Not even the CEO of my company. Doctor, mister, sir, madam? Nope. Your honor? I don't think so. Your majesty? You've got to be kidding...

I strongly disagree! If you can't stomach calling me "your grace", at least call me "Sir, yes sir!" :p

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Tez


Really? Your physician has a PhD?

I have a cousin who has a PhD in history, and while she gets on her high horse about how MDs aren't "real doctors", she'll slap you silly if you call her "doc".

[arcticpenguin]

For me, it depends on the situation. I prefer to reserve the title 'doctor' for physicians. As a PhD I detest the title when applied to myself. Might have something to do with putting up with too many pre-meds during my undergraduate years...

I also really detested calling one of my parish priests (I was raised Catholic) "father" because he wasn't half the man my real father was.

[Eos of the Eons]

I really hate titles when a woo woo can get a PhD in homeopathy and call themselves 'dr.' Or a woo woo can get a PhD in something like Geology, then take a few courses in woo wooism-then call themselves 'dr.'

Then all the unaware folks think they have a medical degree and take their 'medical advices'.

[rustypouch]

I tend to use titles.

I like to think that it shows people I take my work, and them, seriously, so they think I am more responible and willing to put more trust in me.

On the same note, I am the only person among my group of friends and associates who tends to wear suits. It tends to lend an air of prfessionalism.

[TruthSeeker]

Personally, I prefer not to use titles and do not wish people to address me using my titles. Even "aunt" is forbidden!

However, a senior female professor warned me that the easiest way for a young female professor to lose control over a large lecture hall of 17 and 18 year olds was to let them address her by her first name. I ignore that my first year teaching and lived to regret it (what a trauma!). I have insisted on Dr. from my students ever since and my teaching evaluations, lecture control and experience of students have all improved dramatically.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
I really hate titles when a woo woo can get a PhD in homeopathy and call themselves 'dr.' Or a woo woo can get a PhD in something like Geology, then take a few courses in woo wooism-then call themselves 'dr.'

What? You mean like Dr. Kent Hovind (http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/patriot/)?

Or Dr. Derek Smart (http://follies.werewolves.org/PhDFraud/)?

[Eos of the Eons]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs


What? You mean like Dr. Kent Hovind (http://www.geocities.com/kenthovind/patriot/puapps_small.jpg)?

Or Dr. Derek Smart (http://follies.werewolves.org/PhDFraud/)?

Whoa, another example. People who outright lie about what title they are entitled to.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons


Whoa, another example. People who outright lie about what title they are entitled to.

By the way, I actually have had the "honor" of being DSed by the man himself (Derek Smart).

In fact, if we mention his name enough, he'll appear here and begin swearing. Here, let me get started:

Battlecruiser 3000ad is the biggest waste of money of all time (good thing I pirated my copy). My 9 year old son writes better gaming software than Derek Smart.

That should do it.

I SUMMON DEREK SMART! ARISE DEMON OF THE INTERNET!

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by Chaos
In Germany, almost all physicians are "Dr. med." - the same as PhD, I guess.

But when one is "Mister Doctor" does it really matter what the nature of the honoraria is? ;)

The only Herr Doktor I knew in the states was a JD btw.

[Zep]

I suspect this all depends on what you think is meant by addressing people like that.

If you think a title is a means to lord it over others by trying to "outrank" them somehow (as per people like K. Hovind) then up yers!

If you think a title is an earned distinction that you may or may not use as is politic or necessary or polite, such as "Your Honour" or "Officer" or "Your Grace" or "Yes Sir, Colonel," then I have little or no problem with that.

Anyway, the title "Doctor" is always misleading. I have a colleague who is a PhD in Computer Science and a senior research scientist in our country. He prefers to use his first name in almost all circumstances, including with senior corporate barons. However, once he was running late for a flight, and someone called out "Please hurry, Doctor ...."! They had held the flight for him!

[iSani]

Originally posted by Chaos
In Germany, almost all physicians are "Dr. med." - the same as PhD, I guess.

Also in Germany, if you have two doctorates, you are called "Herr Doktor Doktor Whomever". (Is the feminine form "Frau Doktorin Doktorin Whomever"? I'm not sure.)

[Chaos]

Originally posted by iSani


Also in Germany, if you have two doctorates, you are called "Herr Doktor Doktor Whomever". (Is the feminine form "Frau Doktorin Doktorin Whomever"? I'm not sure.)

No, the formal adress is only with one "Doktor", and women are "Frau Doktor".

[Glory]

Making reference to someone's accomplishments by using a title is not a problem for me. It's polite to call PhD.'s and MD.'s "doctor". I leave it up to the individual to tell that it is allright to use their given name. It is impolite to be assume such fammiliarity without permission. I do most people the courtesy of calling them whatever they wish to be called. It costs me nothing and makes it much easier for me to deal with them. If there is a compelling reason to deny someone that courtesy, obviously, that is a different situation entirely.

I don't understand the hostility I see here over the use of titles. Why do you advocate being rude?

Also, I think if you want to diminish the accomplishments of MD's you should try going to medical school first. If all it took to become a doctor was wrote memmorization then actors and savants could all become physicians in short order. It takes more than that as is the case with most professional degrees.

The titles I do have a problem with I am unlikely to ever have a reason to use. I have difficulty with the idea of using royal titles, as I do not recognise any monarch's sovereignty. I highly doubt I will ever meet any royals, though, so I don't concern myself much with this instance.

Glory

[Eos of the Eons]

The only problem I have is homeopaths calling themselves doctors, I don't care if they have a PhD in homeopathy, they misuse the title on purpose. Most physicists won't call themselves doctor to try to sell you an alternative to a clock.

I don't feel there should be any such thing as a Phd of homeopathy. Then those cons couldn't go around calling themselves doctors and get people to pay them for 'treatment'. Then they couldn't write books on crap and have the title Dr. in big bold words as the author of the book.

'Dr.' Gary Young is one example of a person who severely misuses the title when he doesn't have much of anything for an education. His child died when he did an under water birth for his wife, and left the child in the water too long.


http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/young.html

My friend calls him a doctor and sells his freakin crap to everyone she can convince to buy in to the idea that you can protect yourself from the HIV virus with oil.

http://members.ij.net/natural/4gary2.htm

AROMATHERAPY
Dr. Gary Young

[Glory]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
The only problem I have is homeopaths calling themselves doctors, I don't care if they have a PhD in homeopathy, they misuse the title on purpose. Most physicists won't call themselves doctor to try to sell you an alternative to a clock.

I don't feel there should be any such thing as a Phd of homeopathy. Then those cons couldn't go around calling themselves doctors and get people to pay them for 'treatment'. Then they couldn't write books on crap and have the title Dr. in big bold words as the author of the book.

'Dr.' Gary Young is one example of a person who severely misuses the title when he doesn't have much of anything for an education. His child died when he did an under water birth for his wife, and left the child in the water too long.


http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/young.html

My friend calls him a doctor and sells his freakin crap to everyone she can convince to buy in to the idea that you can protect yourself from the HIV virus with oil.

I consider it extremely unfortunate that there is no distinction in title between Md's, PhD's in real sciences and PhD's in bullsh*t sciences. It enables people to take advantage and mislead people. I also note that, like Laura Schlesinger(sp?), anyone who wants to call themselves "doctor" may do so within the law. This is one of the very few instances in which I find myself saying, "there oughtta be a law."

Glory

[Eos of the Eons]

This is one of the very few instances in which I find myself saying, "there oughtta be a law."

I completely agree.

[Abdul Alhazred]

My highest academic preferment is a Master's Degree, yet I don't expect to be called "Master".

But Hell, I'm the Mad Arab, "O foul one" will do just fine for ceremonial purposes. :p

In ordinary day to day dealing "Mister Alhazred, sir!" will do. :p

[Eos of the Eons]

Funny thing is that some states do have laws, but others do not.

Gary Young and Young Living as an organization are the same. But Young Living oils and Young Living distributors are a different subject. Mr. Gary Young claims to be a ND, but he has no doctorate degree from any recognized institution of higher learning - he has one he bought for a few hundred dollars from one of the many "non-accredited" companies who will sell you a degree .. pick the one you want, no wait, no exams, just send in your check or money order.


*************The title "Doctor" is illegal to use in Gary Young's home state of Utah because it was a mail order degree. So, he uses the title in states that don't license Naturopathic Doctors. It is a meaningless title and he continues to use it in order to give his theories and practices more credentials. He is therefore, a phoney!

He makes many other claims about his life that have been proven false, they are pure marketing hype and pure bovine excrement, but still, YL followers see him as a guru - MR. Young uses religion to help keep the followers following - not too different from Reverend Jones of Jonestown or David Koresh of the Branch Davidians. Some people need a charismatic like GY to lead them, regardless of the fact that he is a charlatan.

!

http://www.fragrant.demon.co.uk/ylfiles.html

From Mexico, Young moved to California and opened a clinic offering supposed treatments for cancer and other illnesses. He claimed falsely at that time to be an M.D. He was arrested in California in 1988 for a variety of charges related to the sale of ineffective and worthless medical treatments.

Young then returned to the Spokane area. He was arrested on January 10, 1994 for assaulting several family members with an axe. This behavior is from a man who claims to be deeply religious and spiritual.

And what about Young’s claims to be an N.D., or naturopathic doctor? They are false. His “degree” is a worthless piece of paper purchased from a notorious diploma mill called Bernadean University. With this worthless credential, Young has NEVER been licensed to practice naturopathy in Utah or any place else
.


http://www.aromaticsage.com/GYRDT.html


And I'm the nutcase among all our friends to not buy the freakin oil and sell it to others. I'm the nutcase who doesn't believe oil can protect you from HIV.

Argh argh argh!!!

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
The only Herr Doktor I knew in the states was a JD btw. German lawyers customarily carry the title "Dr." Technically anyone with a JD is entitled to use it as well, but I don't know anyone who does.

[Cleopatra]

The Greek language apart from the titles has an augmentative plural and I am grateful about it. I do not wish people that they don't know me addressing me with my name. Mrs.which is a title, is doing fine. I always use the augmentative plural, with everybody who is older than 18 years old, regardless his social status. Everybody has a title :Mr. or Mrs.

I consider though ridiculous to be called Dr. I don't use it even on my business cards because it's not a doctorate in Law the one I have. Some colleagues sign their documents as Dr. and I find it ridiculous.

Professor, Doctor, Minister, Prime Minister are some of the titles that once you get them you might keep them for a lifetime, at least according to the Protocol.

[Michael Redman]

Originally posted by ceo_esq
German lawyers customarily carry the title "Dr." Technically anyone with a JD is entitled to use it as well, but I don't know anyone who does. The beggers from our alma mater recently started addressing my wife as "doctor" when asking for funds, although she has tried to explain to them that it's not the proper title for a JD. For some reason, they don't write to me at all.

I was going to tell what I think about lawyers who use the title "esq.", but I think I'll refrain.

Anyway, I think legitimate titles are fine and proper, but only in the social context of the title. "Doctor" in the hospital or medical office, and probably by medical students in other places. "Your Honor" in court, or by non-familiar lawyers out of court. "Professor" or "Doctor" for PhD in an academic setting, or by current students. And so on.

Otherwise, they should be referred to as Mr. or Ms. (Or Mrs. or Miss as they prefer) unless familiar. I think people who expect perfect strangers to call them by professional titles in non-professional situations are far too full of themselves.

Michael Redman, Esq.

[Corey]

I tend to refer to people simply by their given name. I use a Mr or Mrs or so on when I don't know their first name (usually related to talking to clients at work). If they're a doctor and I don't know their first name, I use Dr. and their surname. The only time I ever call someone "Sir" is when I'm just being a bit silly with a friend (I often say "Good day to you sir" or "thank you sir, may I have another?" if I'm bumming a cigarette at a party, heh)...or to police officers. Why? Well, I don't generally respect them just because of their position, but I do fear being beaten or shot, so there ya go.

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by Michael Redman
The beggers from our alma mater recently started addressing my wife as "doctor" when asking for funds, although she has tried to explain to them that it's not the proper title for a JD. For some reason, they don't write to me at all.

I was going to tell what I think about lawyers who use the title "esq.", but I think I'll refrain.

Anyway, I think legitimate titles are fine and proper, but only in the social context of the title. "Doctor" in the hospital or medical office, and probably by medical students in other places. "Your Honor" in court, or by non-familiar lawyers out of court. "Professor" or "Doctor" for PhD in an academic setting, or by current students. And so on.

Otherwise, they should be referred to as Mr. or Ms. (Or Mrs. or Miss as they prefer) unless familiar. I think people who expect perfect strangers to call them by professional titles in non-professional situations are far too full of themselves.

Michael Redman, Esq. In France, where I now practice, the formal title for attorneys is Maitre ("Master"). Of course, the French already pepper their discourse with plenty of titles (even in informal conversation, people frequently address each other as "Sir" and "Madam"). But if someone knows you are a lawyer, "Sir" is often replaced with "Master" even in a non-legal context (my landlord, bank teller and tailor all address me this way, for example). Makes me feel like I'm in I Dream of Jeannie.

[tim]

Next Thursday I have to give evidence in the High Court in London. The judge sits up behind the bench and looks down on everyone. I am supposed to call him "your honour".
I don't know him. I don't know if he's horourable or not, or why he should deserve my respect.
I do know that if I don't call him "your honour" he's gonna ream me out and it's an argument I can't win. He can send me to prison if I am in contempt of court (insert jokes about holding the court in contempt anyway here, please). I guess I'll have to toe the line.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by ceo_esq
German lawyers customarily carry the title "Dr." Technically anyone with a JD is entitled to use it as well, but I don't know anyone who does.

The reason this one was a Dr. (he was in the states btw) was because he was a college professor. I probably shouldn't have left that tidbit out.

Tim, if you're worried about it, wear suspenders (the American version, I'm sure the English version would cause quite more of a stir than you'd want to), place your thumbs in them, lean back and say "Yer Aaahner." That's how our midwestern lawyers win cases. I'm sure it'll be more effective for witnesses.

If you're trying to convict an innocent black man of rape, I suggest you adopt the same posture, but be holding a hand held fan and say, "Yoronor."

[patoco12]

I like having a formal title because I know when my wife addresses me with it, then she is really mad at me.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by tim
Next Thursday I have to give evidence in the High Court in London. The judge sits up behind the bench and looks down on everyone. I am supposed to call him "your honour".
I don't know him. I don't know if he's horourable or not, or why he should deserve my respect.
I do know that if I don't call him "your honour" he's gonna ream me out and it's an argument I can't win. He can send me to prison if I am in contempt of court (insert jokes about holding the court in contempt anyway here, please). I guess I'll have to toe the line.

Dearest Tim exactly because we don't know people we must use their titles. Noblesse oblige...

Also when it comes courts you don't show your respect to the Judge as a person by addressing him as " Your Honor" but to the Institution of Justice :)

[richardm]

Originally posted by tim
Next Thursday I have to give evidence in the High Court in London. The judge sits up behind the bench and looks down on everyone. I am supposed to call him "your honour".
I don't know him. I don't know if he's horourable or not, or why he should deserve my respect.
I do know that if I don't call him "your honour" he's gonna ream me out and it's an argument I can't win. He can send me to prison if I am in contempt of court (insert jokes about holding the court in contempt anyway here, please). I guess I'll have to toe the line.

No matter what you may think of the man himself, anyone who has the power to bang you up should be treated with the greatest respect...