How to annoy Peta AND Unicef at the same time.

[The Atheist]

No question the snake has been de-fanged, (PETA) but teaching babies that cobras are attractive toys may not be a good thing in a country where they're common.(UNICEF, or whichever UN-WORD is presently in use.)

Video has been around for a while, but it's worth a look if you haven't seen it!

agBMxX1SeJo

[Nogbad]

:(

Thought this was going to be about feeding kids live kittens.

Oh well!

[gtc]

Not feeding kittens live kids?

[Nogbad]

That would kind of work but I think the kittens would get more sympathy.

[The Atheist]

:(

Thought this was going to be about feeding kids live kittens.

Oh well!

How would that upset Unicef?

Kittens are perfectly nourishing and more so uncooked.

Is it a toxoplasmosis worry?

[Nogbad]

Fur balls would be an issue - kittens are very fluffy.

[SteveGrenard]

No question the snake has been de-fanged, (PETA) but teaching babies that cobras are attractive toys may not be a good thing in a country where they're common.(UNICEF, or whichever UN-WORD is presently in use.)

Video has been around for a while, but it's worth a look if you haven't seen it!

agBMxX1SeJo



Here are startling new statistics on snakebite worldwide which were released yesterday; there are 51 news accounts worldwide. This is the original press release from the Public Library of Science (PLoS).

There are 50 or so countries (including Ireland) with no reportable venomous snakebites. I suggest cobra dollies for toddlers be limited to these. As far as this video (which I have seen before) is concerned it is a disgrace.

Public release date: 3-Nov-2008

Contact: Andrew Hyde
press@plos.org
44-122-346-3330

Public Library of Science

Snakebite is a neglected threat to global public health
Snakebites cause considerable death and injury worldwide and pose an
important yet neglected threat to public health, says new research
published in this week's PLoS Medicine. The study used the most
comprehensive methods yet to estimate that at least 421,000
envenomings and 20,000 deaths from snakebites occur each year,
especially in South and South East Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.

To estimate death and injury from snakebite, Janaka de Silva
(University of Kelaniya, Sri Lanka) and colleagues conducted a
systematic review of the scientific literature, reviewed county-
specific mortality data from databases maintained by United Nations
organizations, and identified unpublished information from Ministries
of Health, National Poison Centres, and snakebite experts on
snakebites in countries that do not have reliable data on snakebite
incidence and mortality.

This data retrieval produced information for many of the world's 227
countries, which were grouped into 21 geographical regions. The
researchers estimate that 421,000 envenomings and 20,000 deaths occur
worldwide from snakebite each year, but warn that these figures may
be as high as 1,841,000 envenomings and 94,000 deaths, especially in
areas of sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia where antivenoms are hard
to obtain. India has the highest estimated annual envenomings and
deaths: 81,000, and 11,000 respectively.

In a related Perspective article, Jean-Philippe Chippaux from the the
Institut de Recherche pour le Développement in La Paz, Bolivia and
uninvolved in the research, argues that this study is a "preliminary
but essential step in improving accessibility of anitvenoms and the
treatment of snakebite." Dr. Chippaux notes the dire situation of
antivenom availability and cost in Africa—a situation that could be
worsened by the current global economic crisis—where the price of a
vial of antivenom is the equivalent of several months of income for
most rural families. Better information on the global burden of
snakebite would help understand how much antivenom needs to be
produced and in what areas it needs to be distributed, he says. As de
Silva and colleagues conclude, despite their careful methodology,
more population-based studies of incidence and mortality from
snakebite are urgently needed.
###
Citation: Kasturiratne A, Wickremasinghe AR, de Silva N, Gunawardena
NK, Pathmeswaran A, et al. (2008) Estimation of the global burden of
snakebite. PLoS Med 5(11): e218. doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.0050218

IN YOUR COVERAGE PLEASE USE THIS URL TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE FREELY
AVAILABLE PAPER:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050218

PRESS-ONLY PREVIEW OF THE ARTICLE:

http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-de-silva.pdf

READ THE EDITORS' SUMMARY OF THE PAPER:
http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-de-silva-summary.pdf

Images for press use: feel free to reproduce the following two high
resolution images from the paper:
- Figure 5 from the paper: http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-de-silva-fig-5.jpg
Legend: Regional Estimates of Envenomings Due to Snakebite
- Figure 7 from the paper: http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-de-silva-fig-7.jpg
Legend: Regional Estimates of Deaths Due to Snakebite

CONTACT:
Janaka de Silva
Faculty of Medicine, University of Kelaniya
Thalagolla Road
Ragama, Western Province PO Box 6
Sri Lanka
+94 11 2953409
+94 11 2958337 (fax)
hjdes@sltnet.lk

PRESS CONTACT:
Francesco Rio
World Health Organization
20, avenue Appia
Geneva
Switzerland
+41 22 791 38 33
+41 079 475 55 44 (mobile)
riof@who.int

Related PLoS Medicine Perspective:

Citation: Chippaux J-P (2008) Estimating the global burden of
snakebite can help to improve management. PLoS Med 5(11): e221.
doi:10.1371/journal.pmed.0050221

IN YOUR COVERAGE PLEASE USE THIS URL TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE FREELY
AVAILABLE PAPER:

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0050221

PRESS-ONLY PREVIEW OF THE ARTICLE:

http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-chippaux.pdf

CONTACT:
Jean-Philippe Chippaux
Director of Research
Institut de Recherche pour le Développement
La Paz
Bolivia
Jean-Philippe.Chippaux@ird.fr


Received by SG via e-mail. URL's embedded in press release.

[The Atheist]

Fur balls would be an issue - kittens are very fluffy.

Damn, of course they are.

Here are startling new statistics on snakebite worldwide which were released yesterday; there are 51 news accounts worldwide. This is the original press release from the Public Library of Science (PLoS).

There are 50 or so countries (including Ireland) with no reportable venomous snakebites. I suggest cobra dollies for toddlers be limited to these. As far as this video (which I have seen before) is concerned it is a disgrace.

Thanks for that.

The slightly more serious side of the coin, they are indeed dangerous critters.

Always makes me glad I live in NZ, that stuff - we let all our venomous animals live in Oz.

[Darth Rotor]

As far as this video (which I have seen before) is concerned it is a disgrace.

Steve, what a load of bollocks.

I always have handy some snake bite medicine. Lately, it's been called by the name of Woodford Reserve (http://www.woodfordreserve.com/age.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDefault.aspx). Snake bites are no peril to those well equipped with the proper medication.

DR

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Your family makes it's living by doing Snake Taming stuff on the streets - you know - snake, basket, clarinet, turban.

In order to do that, your family has to grow up totally unafraid of snakes, because the kids help out as soon as they can walk and talk.

How do you get things going?

That snake was probably defanged, because it hits the kid a few times and there's no blood, right? What would an American baby the same age do if that snake hit it? Do you think that screaming and crying would be conducive to keeping the snakes manageable later on?

[SteveGrenard]

Steve, what a load of bollocks.

I always have handy some snake bite medicine. Lately, it's been called by the name of Woodford Reserve (http://www.woodfordreserve.com/age.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDefault.aspx). Snake bites are no peril to those well equipped with the proper medication.

DR

Yup. During prohibition in the U.S. snakebite was also at an all time high here as well.
It was amazing how many people lined up at their doctor's office with snakebites that needed medicine.

[SteveGrenard]

The problem with desensitizing this baby to a live cobra is that afterwards and for years to come you can't always watch this kid and he will approach cobras which freely roam the streets even in New Delhi .... which are not defanged and they will end up killing him.

[The Atheist]

Lately, it's been called by the name of Woodford Reserve (http://www.woodfordreserve.com/age.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDefault.aspx).

Huh. You bottle snake-piss in USA now.

Makes snake-taming the kids seem mild in comparison.

[Darth Rotor]

Huh. You bottle snake-piss in USA now.
I'd try a tipple of that were I you, before I judged it so. ;)
Makes snake-taming the kids seem mild in comparison.
Hey, someone has to pass on the tradition. :cool:

Another thought on your OP:

How to piss off Peta AND Unicef at the same time
I'd rather piss on them both.

DR

[The Atheist]

I'd try a tipple of that were I you, before I judged it so. ;)

I would too!

Actually, I don't mind a good bourbon, so I would give it a try.

I'd rather piss on them both.

DR

Agree on Peta, but I wouldn't put Unicef quite so far down.

[Cleon]

Huh. You bottle snake-piss in USA now.


Why not? We've been bottling horse-piss (http://www.budweiser.com/) since the 1870s.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

The problem with desensitizing this baby to a live cobra is that afterwards and for years to come you can't always watch this kid and he will approach cobras which freely roam the streets even in New Delhi .... which are not defanged and they will end up killing him.


Again, by the time this kid can walk, she/he will be handling cobras in the family act. By the time she/he can, "roam the streets even in New Delhi," alone, she/he will have her/his own act.

<<sigh>> Folks just do not get carnies.

[gumboot]

Here are startling new statistics on snakebite worldwide which were released yesterday; there are 51 news accounts worldwide. This is the original press release from the Public Library of Science (PLoS).

There are 50 or so countries (including Ireland) with no reportable venomous snakebites. I suggest cobra dollies for toddlers be limited to these. As far as this video (which I have seen before) is concerned it is a disgrace.


Received by SG via e-mail. URL's embedded in press release.



I can't say that those statistics seem overly alarming to me. 56 million people die every year. 20,000 just doesn't seem like very many. To put it in perspective the lowly Anopheles mosquito infects an estimated 500 million people with malaria every year, killing between 1 and 3 million of them.

[The Atheist]

I can't say that those statistics seem overly alarming to me. 56 million people die every year. 20,000 just doesn't seem like very many. To put it in perspective the lowly Anopheles mosquito infects an estimated 500 million people with malaria every year, killing between 1 and 3 million of them.

One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic.

[SteveGrenard]

I can't say that those statistics seem overly alarming to me. 56 million people die every year. 20,000 just doesn't seem like very many. To put it in perspective the lowly Anopheles mosquito infects an estimated 500 million people with malaria every year, killing between 1 and 3 million of them.

I agree malaria is a number one scourge and we still need a vaccine that works. But to put the global burden caused by snake bite into perspective, can I suggest you read the following two review papers?

http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-de-silva.pdf

http://www.plos.org/press/plme-05-11-chippaux.pdf

[The Atheist]

But to put the global burden caused by snake bite into perspective, can I suggest you read the following two review papers?

I have to confess that I find it difficult to need perspective when even one life can be saved.

[Darth Rotor]

Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps.
I just noticed that.

You rock. :D

DR

[Jeff Corey]

Hi..Folks just do not get carnies.


like they say, takes one to know one.

[SteveGrenard]

That snake was probably defanged, because it hits the kid a few times and there's no blood, right?

Not only defanged but likely to have its mouth sewn shut as snakes can bite with
their other teeth. In addition the duct from the venom gland may continue to pump venom into the oral cavity of the snake unless the duct and gland are surgically removed. I doubt snake charmers can do this kind of surgery sucessfully but who knows? In the U.S., performed by a vet, it results in a snake that is called "venomoid" or devoid of venom.


What would an American baby the same age do if that snake hit it? Do you think that screaming and crying would be conducive to keeping the snakes manageable later on?

No. Because snakes cannot hear airborne sounds. Snakes can be conditioned by handling. They can be conditioned by their favorite foods but this usually results in aggressive feeding behaviors which includes biting. They cannot be conditioned by aural stimuli.

[Beerina]

How to piss off Peta

Why would you want to make her angry? She never did nuthin' to you!

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/231749148e0f10cea.jpg

[NoZed Avenger]

I have to confess that I find it difficult to need perspective when even one life can be saved.


But we all have limits on that view, even if they fly under the radar.

For example, if "even one life" is the standard, then we get rid of all cars tomorrow. They kill a lot more people than snakes. We then ban alcohol, cigarettes, fatty foods, and peanut brittle (allergies, choking, etc.). Tacitly, then, you do have perspective on some of those issues. It's just that it is sometimes harder for us to get a perspective on a particuar issue than others.

[luchog]

Not only defanged but likely to have its mouth sewn shut as snakes can bite with their other teeth. In addition the duct from the venom gland may continue to pump venom into the oral cavity of the snake unless the duct and gland are surgically removed.
This is only true for certain species of snakes which lack any fangs at all. Their venom is a modified saliva, and is always present in small quantities. They have to actually "chew" their prey to get sufficient venom into it. Rear-fanged colubrids, fixed-fang elapids, and extendible-fanged vipers can all precisely meter the delivery of their venom. (Cobras are elapids.) While many may still eject venom even once their fangs are removed, roughly half the bites of all fanged elapids and vipers are "dry", no venom injected at all. Venom also has to be injected into the skin to have any effect. Contact with mucus membranes has a much less severe effect, typically only irritation and pain; and ingestion completely neutralizes it.
I doubt snake charmers can do this kind of surgery sucessfully but who knows? In the U.S., performed by a vet, it results in a snake that is called "venomoid" or devoid of venom.

"Venomoid" snakes are an abomination. It's worse than tail-docking or ear-cropping for dogs and cats. Even worse than de-clawing cats.

Very very few vets will de-venom snakes. The surgery to remove the Duvernoy's gland is risky, and it's almost impossible to ensure that all the tissue has been excised. A substantial number of snakes do not survive the operation even when professionally performed.

But again, the de-venom operation is very rarely professionally performed. Most often, it's performed by unscrupulous breeders and importers, using rudimentary tools, with insufficient pain or infection control. The animals have a very high mortality rate, but that's considered just the cost of doing business; particularly since aquiring the snakes is a relatively small expense; while they typically sell for hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars.

There is increasing evidence that the de-venoming a snake can cause substantial long-term health problems unrelated to the surgery itself. The venom is a modified digestive enzyme; and there are strong indications that it is important to the snake's digestive process. Certainly venomoid snakes typically have a substantially shorter average lifespan than is normal for their species.

De-fanging snakes is not as severe an operation; but is still risky.

[Jeff Corey]

"hearing of reptiles varies among the species, but most can hear at least low-pitched sounds. The majority of reptiles have an eardrum, a middle ear, and an inner ear. However, snakes lack a middle ear and cannot hear most sounds carried through the air. They "hear" by sensing vibrations from the ground."
Just sayin',

[SteveGrenard]

Front fanged snakes such as the Indian cobra in this video which has
had its fangs removed still could pump venom into its oral cavity and it can be administered to the child through skin-breaking bites of the snake’s other teeth. If you study this video carefully you will notice that the snake does not open its mouth each time it “hits” the baby. This is because it can’t ….. it’s stitched. Don’t confuse this with the normal presence of venom in the oral cavities of rear-fanged colubrids with Duvernoy glands that do administer the venomous contents of these glands by chewing it into their victim. This scenario does not provide for the aberrant presence of a front-fanged snake which has had its front fangs removed, an altogether different situation. Snake charmers in India not only yank the front fangs but sew the mouth shut as well. Snake charming, by the way, is now illegal throughout most of the country. At least a part of the reason for this is the horrible way they treat their snakes. They also harass and intimidate passerbys, forcing “donations” to remove the snakes from their target’s face.

Venom is not saliva, modified or,otherwise. Snakes have salivary glands, venom glands and rear fanged colubrids have Duvernoy glands, all three of which produce and eject substances that are each biochemically distinct. I appreciate the fact that there are literally thousands of publications that call venom modified saliva or saliva. However the following and ongoing research by my friend Dr. Bryan G. Fry in Australia indicates otherwise:


Evolution of snake venom drew on bits of body parts

[ UniNews Vol. 14, No. 5 4 - 18 April 2005 ]

Nature’s most sophisticated biological weapon, snake venom, largely evolved from bits of body parts, according to a University of Melbourne researcher.

In the first comprehensive analysis of the origin and evolution of snake venom, Dr Bryan Fry, based in the University’s Australian Venom Research Unit, says the findings may help to explain why snake venom is so effective.

“These findings help to explain the amazing diversity of ways that venomous snakes can kill their prey and why they have so much potential use in medial research,” he says.

In his research, Dr Fry found that rather than being derived from saliva, 21 of the 24 known snake venom toxins were found to have originally derived from proteins normally expressed in other body tissues, including the brain, eye, lung, heart, liver, muscle, mammary gland, ovary and testis.

Only two were derived from proteins presumably expressed in reptile saliva and one did not have any similarity to any known proteins.

The findings were published in the March edition of Genome Research.

http://uninews.unimelb.edu.au/view.php?articleID=2213



Defensive swipes made by snakes often result in dry bites but there is no statistical proof that would allow one to say 50% or some other % of the time bites are dry. Betting on this is like playing Russian roulette.

Duvernoy glands only occur in colubrids. Elapids and Viperids have saliva and venom glands. They do not have Duvernoy glands.

Most Duvernoy gland venoms produce only mild effects and are almost never fatal. Two rear-fanged (actually mid-fanged) colubrids in Africa do administer potentially lethal hemorrhagic venoms: the Boomslang and the Twig Snake.

While necrotizing myotoxic and histotoxic venoms start the digestive process, neurotoxic and hemorrhagic venoms are used to weaken, capture, immobilize and help the snake to kill its prey. I agree, however, that both de-fanging and/or devenoming venomous front fanged elapids and viperids could be extremely harmful to the snake although the subject is controversial with some captive owners saying by feeding dead prey they have not noticed decreased growth or shortened lifespans. But I really haven’t seen any
hard data on the subject, only anecdote. Of course snake charmers illegally working the streets of India could hardly care less what we think if they want to set up street shows involving babies facing off with cobras. That’s an abomination.

On hearing … snakes do not have external or outer ears. Take a look at a snake’s head. They receive sound vibrations with their lower jaws which rest on the ground and transmit vibrations to their inner ear. Such sounds are obviously low pitched. They do not hear airborne sounds. By being able to detect ground-borne vibration they can tell if a tasty rodent is running around nearby or if a much larger creature including a human is heading toward them, causing them to try and escape a confrontation. Most bites inflicted by snakes in the wild are accidents, acts of defense by a snake that is accidentally trod upon or cornered by a human or faced with an animal or human just getting too close.