To my Democrat Friends

[applecorped]

Congratulations to the Democrats on their resounding victory yesterday. Let us all wish them well and look forward to better times for the USA and all her citizens. :)

[Tricky]

Thank you, applecorped. I hope more people will follow your lead and put away their differences to focus on the big job ahead.
:clap:

[MattusMaximus]

Thank you AC. I just wish some people on my side of the fence were as gracious in victory.

[boloboffin]

Thanks. And as a sop, Obama has asked Rahm Emanuel to be his chief of staff, and a more centrist Democrat you will not find in the House. With Biden the Senate insider as Veep, it's looking more and more like establishment every day. :(

[Nyarlathotep]

Thank you, applecorped. I hope more people will follow your lead and put away their differences to focus on the big job ahead.
:clap:

They won't.

[applecorped]

They won't.

Will you?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Thank you AC. I just wish some people on my side of the fence were as gracious in victory.


Some seem to be in a hurry to demonstrate that there are those on both sides (in this case, the left) that "don't get it" and flaunt their biases, unfortunately. I was disappointed to see the OP in the thread by a similar title but addressed to Republicans.

Thanks. And as a sop, Obama has asked Rahm Emanuel to be his chief of staff, and a more centrist Democrat you will not find in the House. With Biden the Senate insider as Veep, it's looking more and more like establishment every day. :(


Nov. 5th might be a bit early for dejection. Shouldn’t we give him at least a week or so of actually being in office before we call the game? Is it not possible to change from the center (especially given that the Dems didn't quite get to their ideal number(s) in congress)?

[headscratcher4]

Thank you.

BTW: John McCain made an incredibly gracious and powerful concession speech last night...wish I'd seen more of that on the campaign trail

Ultimately, Obama is a politician and will succeed or fail by how well he is able to navigate governing issues...which ultimately are very different than campaign issues.

But I would like to relate one story from my waiting to vote yesterday. There was an elderly black woman behind me in line. She carried with her pictures of her mother and father as well as deceased familiy members. She said she had to cast this vote and to bring along those who hadn't lived to see it. If nothing else, that she could have that moment made me incredibly proud to be an American.

[RandFan]

I'm a registered Republican but voted for Obama. I don't know whether to thank you are congratulate the Dems. :D

Good form applecorped, good form.

[chipmunk stew]

Thanks!

*fistbump*

[ParanoidAndroid]

...Good form applecorped, good form.


+1

[noch1Narr]

headscratcher4-
Thank you for sharing that experience. Makes me extra proud to have voted for The Man!!!

[RandFan]

But I would like to relate one story from my waiting to vote yesterday. There was an elderly black woman behind me in line. She carried with her pictures of her mother and father as well as deceased familiy members. She said she had to cast this vote and to bring along those who hadn't lived to see it. If nothing else, that she could have that moment made me incredibly proud to be an American.:)

Last night was really a feeling of history that I shall likely never forget. I was born 1961 in a conservative small town. As a child I would not have believed it was possible.

I did not vote for Obama because he was black. I voted for him because I sincerly believed that he was the best person for the job but I'm glad that the best person for the job was black.

[MattusMaximus]

BTW: John McCain made an incredibly gracious and powerful concession speech last night...wish I'd seen more of that on the campaign trail

That was one classy speech. Last night I saw the old John McCain whom I admired and respected. It is my profound hope that McCain 2000 hangs around for good.

Take a look folks, it's a good one...

1iBtddhMBT8

But I would like to relate one story from my waiting to vote yesterday. There was an elderly black woman behind me in line. She carried with her pictures of her mother and father as well as deceased familiy members. She said she had to cast this vote and to bring along those who hadn't lived to see it. If nothing else, that she could have that moment made me incredibly proud to be an American.

That's just awesome. It makes me proud to be an American :)

[Darat]

Sorry folks but you are just being racist (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4179125#post4179125)if that woman makes you feel proud to be American... :(

[Pookster]

Thank you.

BTW: John McCain made an incredibly gracious and powerful concession speech last night...wish I'd seen more of that on the campaign trail

Ultimately, Obama is a politician and will succeed or fail by how well he is able to navigate governing issues...which ultimately are very different than campaign issues.

But I would like to relate one story from my waiting to vote yesterday. There was an elderly black woman behind me in line. She carried with her pictures of her mother and father as well as deceased familiy members. She said she had to cast this vote and to bring along those who hadn't lived to see it. If nothing else, that she could have that moment made me incredibly proud to be an American.


Thanks for sharing that. Clearly, the Union became more perfect yesterday. We the people of the United States made it so. It's a time, in victory or defeat, that we all can cherish.

[MattusMaximus]

Sorry folks but you are just being racist (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4179125#post4179125)if that woman makes you feel proud to be American... :(

:confused:

[applecorped]

:confused:

Thank you Matt, I thought it was just me.

[RandFan]

:confused:I'm with you, what?

[chipmunk stew]

Thank you.

BTW: John McCain made an incredibly gracious and powerful concession speech last night...wish I'd seen more of that on the campaign trail

Ultimately, Obama is a politician and will succeed or fail by how well he is able to navigate governing issues...which ultimately are very different than campaign issues.

But I would like to relate one story from my waiting to vote yesterday. There was an elderly black woman behind me in line. She carried with her pictures of her mother and father as well as deceased familiy members. She said she had to cast this vote and to bring along those who hadn't lived to see it. If nothing else, that she could have that moment made me incredibly proud to be an American.
I heard a group of African Americans interviewed on the radio a week or so before election day, and one young man said there's a saying going around:
Rosa sat so Martin could walk.
Martin walked so Barack could run.
Barack is running so our children can fly.

Obama didn't win because he is black. But the fact that our president-elect is black is a testament to America's ideals and her determination to live up to them.

[chipmunk stew]

:confused:

Thank you Matt, I thought it was just me.

I'm with you, what?
I think Darat is echoing the post he linked to and is distressed by it.

[applecorped]

I heard a group of African Americans interviewed on the radio a week or so before election day, and one young man said there's a saying going around:
Rosa sat so Martin could walk.
Martin walked so Barack could run.
Barack is running so our children can fly.

Obama didn't win because he is black. But the fact that our president-elect is black is a testament to America's ideals and her determination to live up to them.

Very nice. :)

[RandFan]

I think Darat is echoing the post he linked to and is distressed by it.I don't really understand the post in question and I'm not sure what it has to do with this thread.

[Darat]

I think Darat is echoing the post he linked to and is distressed by it.

The eutamias casserole is correct. (ETA - For added clarity I don't think the woman or anyone who today feels proud to be an American because of stories like that are racist - anything but.)

[headscratcher4]

Darat: I am and have always been a proud American and for many reasons. One core reason, however, is the wonder of American democracy and our ability, as a country, to strive, constantly, to live up to our own ideas. Sometimes it is in fits and starts. Sometimes, like yesterday I believe, it is in waves. I voted for Obama because of who he is and what he stood for and because I could not support McCain. However, I am not, nor could anyone I think, unaware of the symbolic power of the Obama campaign. It seems to me that regardless of one's politics, the fact remains that on race alone, Obama or any black person's election to the Presidency was essentially inconceiveable as little as twenty years agon (not to say eight). And, the fact seems to be that he was elected by a broad coalition of people comprising various ethnic groups as well as other constituencies not based on race or ethnicity.

Having said all of that, I remember, as a child, segregated facilities. I remember race riots. I remember and still can see too much racial distrust. No, Obama's election doesn't solve all problems, but in a purely symbolic way, it goes a far pace toward changing the racial discussion in this country and I can not but help to think that a good thing.

The woman I stood in line with was clearly moved because the world for her grandchildren and its possibilities (at least political, arguably) were going to be very different than the world she has known to date.

I am not sure why my feeling particular pride in America at that moment -- pride I feel daily as do I celebrate my priveledged life in this country -- is racist. If it is, somehow, than so be it. Nor do I see that woman's pride in Obama as somehow "racist" -- maybe you can convinceme.

I don think it is pride in what is possible in this country at this time as well as true satisfaction that we can change and for the possiblity that we can move beyond the superficials of race.

So, please explain?

[godofpie]

axb2IogkztY
After the election last night, this scene came to mind. Someone was nice enough to edit it to say what I was thinking. Because of this election the overt racism will have to become even more closeted, and I think that is a good thing.

[noch1Narr]

Darat-
I stated that I am proud to have voted for The Man NOT because he is black, but for the ideals he embodies and strongly believes in, and which encouraged that black woman to whom headscratcher4 referred to vote for herself and also on behalf of those family members of hers who had not lived to participate in this election themselves. Certainly race was/is involved in this election, but I strongly reject your accusation of being racist! I hope you, too, can distinguish between the man and what he symbolises!

[applecorped]

axb2IogkztY
After the election last night, this scene came to mind. Someone was nice enough to edit it to say what I was thinking. Because of this election the overt racism will have to become even more closeted, and I think that is a good thing.

Overt racism is easier to deal with then if hidden.

[chipmunk stew]

Darat:
...please explain?

Darat-
...I strongly reject your accusation of being racist!
...
In case you missed it:
...(ETA - For added clarity I don't think the woman or anyone who today feels proud to be an American because of stories like that are racist - anything but.)
The post he was distressed by is here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4179125#post4179125

[RandFan]

In case you missed it:

The post he was distressed by is here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4179125#post4179125I'm so lost. What? Could someone speak plainly? Just tell us? I'm sorry I'm so thick but I just don't get it.

[Tailgater]

I didn't get it either. I read the whole thread. A little spat between Luc and DR over the fact people should care more about substance than race, but I missed the racist part.

Ah, nm. Innate racism comment. Maybe I overlooked it because I didn't read the context of the argument that way. DR can be colorful sometimes so I take it with a grain of salt.

[Pookster]

I'm so lost. What? Could someone speak plainly? Just tell us? I'm sorry I'm so thick but I just don't get it.


Unless poster bruto has demonstrated innate racism in the past, DR basically stated that he/she has it in the post as a response to him/her seeing the election of a Black as President as being momentous and a mark of progress.

[Grizzly Bear]

I'll jump in and offer my congratulations to the democratic party... I'm not happy about the results but what the hell... :)

I've said everything else I could say in scattered threads, I don't think I need to repeat myself. I'm just glad that the election cycle is over meaning, I can take some time off from politics and actually talk to other members like members and less like political opponents... :P

[jj]

Overt racism is easier to deal with then if hidden.

First, thank you for your graceful behavior.

I agree with what you say here, as well. It's much easier to deal with *ism if it's up front and center.

It is, in my personal experience, for instance, much easier to deal with "a boy from the mill isn't going to do well in college" than it is with "I don't think this boy has the ability to succeed in a good school".

Although I will also say that there are college admissions officers who look at that and go "yup, heard that before".

Racism is the same, only worse, because you wear your race on your face.

[Walter Bellhaven]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

[Nyarlathotep]

Will you?


Considering that I refuse on principle to join any political party and am overall centrist in regards to the whole left/right thing, I am pretty divorced from the whole silly game most of the rest of the country sems to be playing.

[chipmunk stew]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles
There is no guilt expressed in this thread. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Darat]

Sorry for any upset or confusion I caused.

I had just read the post I linked to (where some Members were being called racists because they were expressing the fact that Obama becoming President of the USA and being black was something significant, especially given how relatively recently black people have had truly equal rights in the USA) and then I read headscratcher4's story and the contrast to me was quite amazing that Darth Rotor could consider that some Members here were being racist for sharing some of the same feelings that woman had.

Given where the USA was just 4 decades ago in relationship to black people, the change in society's attitude that was demonstrated by the USA electorate voting for a new President who is black is something that the USA should be very proud of.

[Pardalis]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

Tell that to the 95% of black voters who voted for him.

[headscratcher4]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

Indeed, he's neither white nor black...he's both. However, the vestigial race identification laws and practices we have in this country makes him "black" ...at least in the minds of those who only look to color (both white and black). Tiger Woods black? He's half Thai and I think only a quarter African American...but many consider him black.

It is a strange world we've lived in till now that plays this game...when it doesn't matter.

On the off chance that your comment was intended as a political comentary (as in he's really white and no where near black enough...) I certainly wouldn't agree with that analysis...rather I'd say that he hasn't adapted an particular ideology other than seeming pragmatism and doing what is politically good for Obama...not sure but think that is color blind.

[parky76]

Congratulations to the Democrats on their resounding victory yesterday. Let us all wish them well and look forward to better times for the USA and all her citizens. :)

Thank you. I hope and assume we will all work together to solve this nation's many problems.

[applecorped]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

How do you know the color of posters?

[parky76]

I heard a group of African Americans interviewed on the radio a week or so before election day, and one young man said there's a saying going around:
Rosa sat so Martin could walk.
Martin walked so Barack could run.
Barack is running so our children can fly.

Obama didn't win because he is black. But the fact that our president-elect is black is a testament to America's ideals and her determination to live up to them.

There have already been blacks on the Space Shuttle.

:D

[parky76]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

Isnt he by law, black?

Don't we still have a 1/8th rule in the USA?

[Morrigan]

Given where the USA was just 4 decades ago in relationship to black people, the change in society's attitude that was demonstrated by the USA electorate voting for a new President who is black is something that the USA should be very proud of.

I don't know why there was confusion, I understood your post perfectly.

Darth Rotor seems to think that merely acknowledging race (even if it's to note actual progress in racial interactions) makes one a racist. An extremist view I find completely absurd, to be sure.

[ProbeX]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

Obama is both African and Caucasian silly.

And along the lines of a comment above, please offer evidence to back your foolish assumption that the posters in this thread are "White" ... because several of us might not be ethnically fit to suffer from some alleged "White guilt" because we may or may not be White to begin with.

Arrgh.

[ProbeX]

Isnt he by law, black?

Don't we still have a 1/8th rule in the USA?

You mean the "1/16th rule"

And thankfully, no.

[Tricky]

I don't know why there was confusion, I understood your post perfectly.

Darth Rotor seems to think that merely acknowledging race (even if it's to note actual progress in racial interactions) makes one a racist. An extremist view I find completely absurd, to be sure.
I consider everybody racist, including myself. The difference is in how you deal with your xenophobic instincts. Do you give in to them or try to overcome them?

[MattusMaximus]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_7747490a66cadb546.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14198)

[Darth Rotor]

Given where the USA was just 4 decades ago in relationship to black people, the change in society's attitude that was demonstrated by the USA electorate voting for a new President who is black is something that the USA should be very proud of.
Man, I have seen woo in my day, but that takes the cake.

What I am proud of is a person: he was until Wednesday morning Senator Obama. He is now president elect Obama. He had the confidence in the American system, and in himself, that he could win, and chose to ignore the running meme among wooists like yourself is that a black man can't (fill in the blank on something good here) due to society being stacked against him.

It was a matter of when, not if. See also a Catholic, in 1960, named Kennedy. There was a time in America, or so it was assumed, that a Catholic couldn't get elected president.

Funnily enough, one did.

DR

[Edges]

Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

Really? Does that make me white too then? So why did I have to fill in both the Caucasian and African-American bubbles when there was no "other" option?

I don't understand how it would make any difference anyway. By the reasoning that being biracial makes you neither one nor the other, this is still a momentous election for reasons that many posters have very eloquently stated.

(Wait! Do I think it's momentous because of my white guilt or my black pride? I'm so confused!)

[boloboffin]

On the notion that simply acknowledging race is inherently racist, I suggest the new website:

http://www.iseecolor.com

On the notion of Barack Obama being white and not black, tell that to the 88% of white Alabamians who voted against him.

[Darth Rotor]

Darth Rotor seems to think that merely acknowledging race (even if it's to note actual progress in racial interactions) makes one a racist. An extremist view I find completely absurd, to be sure.
If you'd like to make up something more, please feel free to do so. Care to discuss with me what I actually said?

I am about twenty years ahead of you. I guess a lot of you forget how the GOP courted Powell in 1996. Political amnesia, is it, or was Powell not black enough for your liking?

DR

[Pardalis]

You mean the "1/16th rule"

And thankfully, no.

An Hexadecaroon?

Actually, I think my grand-mother is one, too bad I didn't get any good dancing genes. :D

[Darat]

Man, I have seen woo in my day, but that takes the cake.

What I am proud of is a person: he was until Wednesday morning Senator Obama. He is now president elect Obama. He had the confidence in the American system, and in himself, that he could win, and chose to ignore the running meme among wooists like yourself is that a black man can't (fill in the blank on something good here) due to society being stacked against him.

It was a matter of when, not if. See also a Catholic, in 1960, named Kennedy. There was a time in America, or so it was assumed, that a Catholic couldn't get elected president.

Funnily enough, one did.

DR

Would you like some help in bailing up that straw?

[applecorped]

I consider everybody racist, including myself. The difference is in how you deal with your xenophobic instincts. Do you give in to them or try to overcome them?


There is two things that I can't stand:

1. People who are intolerant of other people's race, culture, religion, etc.

2. The Dutch ;)

[gtc]

On the notion of Barack Obama being white and not black, tell that to the 88% of white Alabamians who voted against him.

You may not mean to be doing this but you sound like you are suggesting that the white Alabamians who voted against Obama only did so because he was black.

[chipmunk stew]

If you'd like to make up something more, please feel free to do so. Care to discuss with me what I actually said?

I am about twenty years ahead of you. I guess a lot of you forget how the GOP courted Powell in 1996. Political amnesia, is it, or was Powell not black enough for your liking?

DR
Powell would have had a decent shot, too. And if he'd have won, it would have been equally worth celebrating.

[Pardalis]

You may not mean to be doing this but you sound like you are suggesting that the white Alabamians who voted against Obama only did so because he was black.

That's the only thing I'm uncomfortable with with these elections.

People in the media saw the white vote as a racial vote against Obama, (whites voted 55% for McCain) but I don't necessarily see that, they could just as easily have voted for mcCain because of his politics and ideology, not his race. Black people on the other hand voted 95% for Obama, which is clearly a racially motivated vote.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

I'm uncomfortable because I'm glad they did, because I think the world will benefit from a change from Republicans, and I think Obama is the right man, and I'm also glad for the black community. But on the other hand, it's a biased way to vote, and I hope that now that this milestone has been achieved, next elections the African American population will vote for the party's ideology, not the candidate's race.

Just my two cents (1.7 cents American)

[Almo]

BTW: John McCain made an incredibly gracious and powerful concession speech last night...wish I'd seen more of that on the campaign trail

Everone keeps saying this. I'm wondering what the hell happened during his campaign. I think if "they" had let him be himself, he would have had a better chance. Oh and he picked the wrong VP candidate.

At the very least, he didn't run a dirty campaign (neither seemed) which was a welcome change.

[ZirconBlue]

If you'd like to make up something more, please feel free to do so. Care to discuss with me what I actually said?

I am about twenty years ahead of you. I guess a lot of you forget how the GOP courted Powell in 1996. Political amnesia, is it, or was Powell not black enough for your liking?

DR

Do you recall why he chose not to run?

[gtc]

That's the only thing I'm uncomfortable with with these elections.

People in the media saw the white vote as a racial vote against Obama, (whites voted 55% for McCain) but I don't necessarily see that, they could just as easily have voted for mcCain because of his politics and ideology, not his race. Black people on the other hand voted 95% for Obama, which is clearly a racially motivated vote.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1

I'm uncomfortable because I'm glad they did, because I think the world will benefit from a change from Republicans, and I think Obama is the right man, and I'm also glad for the black community. But on the other hand, it's a biased way to vote, and I hope that now that this milestone has been achieved, next elections the African American population will vote for the party's ideology, not the candidate's race.

Just my two cents (1.7 cents American)

I agree with everything you said, although someone else was saying that blacks have voted 90% Democrat in recent elections, which would mean that Obama's 95% support wasn't necessarily racially motivated either.

[slingblade]

Color-blind isn't good.

Just as gender-blind isn't good.

How is being blind to, or ignoring, a major aspect of a person's identity helpful to him?

Do they get to ignore that they're women, or non-white? Do men ever have to ignore being men? I somehow can't see a woman saying "Look, I'm gender-blind; I don't see a man when I look at you. I see someone just like me."

"No, I'm color-blind, as far as race goes. That he's white doesn't mean he can't do the job, now does it?"

Accepting someone solely on his strengths and weaknesses is fine, but pretending you don't see a fundamental part of who he is seems rather insulting. "Just pretend he's not...whatever..." implies there's still something wrong with his being "whatever," doesn't it?

[Walter Bellhaven]

I'm just tired of everyone saying "he's black, he's black, he's black," so I'm simply trying to even it out by saying he's white. Which he is. And BTW, I bet 95% or more of you are white. If I'm wrong then fine, but that's my hunch.

As for me saying that there's a lot of white guilt.. That's just the sense I get when I read comment after comment saying "I'm so happy for the black people that one of their own was finally elected," something about a statement like that just seems.. Not good. I mean whats next, "I'm so happy for the redheads that Carrot Top got elected. Now they don't have to be so sad about all the years of abuse we put them through"??

[ProbeX]

An Hexadecaroon?

Actually, I think my grand-mother is one, too bad I didn't get any good dancing genes. :D

So does that make your grandmother a septuagenarian hexadecaroon? ... An octogenarian hexadecaroon? ... Or older (gasp)? Could she possibly be (doublegasp) a quadragenarian hexadecaroon? ... Something in between?

Do you think she is honorificabilitudinitatibus? Most importantly, can you dance while you say this word? :)

[Edges]

I'm just tired of everyone saying "he's black, he's black, he's black," so I'm simply trying to even it out by saying he's white.


Or you could say something meaningful like "he's biracial". If you are arguing that he is not (all) black, you add nothing by saying he is (all) white.

[Walter Bellhaven]

Accepting someone solely on his strengths and weaknesses is fine, but pretending you don't see a fundamental part of who he is seems rather insulting. "Just pretend he's not...whatever..." implies there's still something wrong with his being "whatever," doesn't it?

The culture you're raised in has more to do with your "identity" than what location on the planet your ancestors happen to be from (your race). So I think in that respect, race has NOTHING to do with who you are. Look at Eminem, he grew up in inner-city Detroit, and people lambast him for "acting black." Compared to Barack, who grew up wherever (not an American inner-city I don't think), and people are going to say he "acts white." It has to do with culture more than anything, IMO.

[ProbeX]

Color-blind isn't good.

Just as gender-blind isn't good.

How is being blind to, or ignoring, a major aspect of a person's identity helpful to him?

Do they get to ignore that they're women, or non-white? Do men ever have to ignore being men? I somehow can't see a woman saying "Look, I'm gender-blind; I don't see a man when I look at you. I see someone just like me."

"No, I'm color-blind, as far as race goes. That he's white doesn't mean he can't do the job, now does it?"

Accepting someone solely on his strengths and weaknesses is fine, but pretending you don't see a fundamental part of who he is seems rather insulting. "Just pretend he's not...whatever..." implies there's still something wrong with his being "whatever," doesn't it?

Good points. When people say we should all "look beyond" a person's race, gender, etc. it seems to imply we should ignore the parts of a people that trigger a bias within us.

Better we come to appreciate the diverse cultural background of Obama and others (including White "sisters and brothers"), who shape the colorful landscape of out nation. Just seems to me it's our diversity (cultural, gender, etc.), and what we all learn from each others' varied cultural experiences that make the American narrative particularily fascinating.

[jj]

Sorry to burst all of your white-guilt bubbles, but Barack Obama is not black, he's white.

Ignoring your "fact not in evidence" and guiltmongering, define "white" and "black" for us, please.

Please do so from a point of view of testable, verifiable science, not somebody's silly Jim Crow law, too.

[ProbeX]

I'm just tired of everyone saying "he's black, he's black, he's black," so I'm simply trying to even it out by saying he's white. Which he is.

This is such a tricky subject to talk about. Yeah, it can get irritating to hear someone being called Black when that person is bi-racial. Why? Because it's patently inaccurate. Problem is, if you call a person who is bi-racial "White", you are being just as inaccurate. And dismissive.

And BTW, I bet 95% or more of you are white. If I'm wrong then fine, but that's my hunch.

What makes you bet on 95%? Just curious, and not looking for a fight. This is a skeptics' site, so I do wonder what reasoning backs your hunch.

As for me saying that there's a lot of white guilt..

I think you are quite possibly right, that some white people have guilt that in part they hold a legacy that includes enslaving and slaughtering Black people. I like to call that "appropriate guilt" because it show a healthy sense of morality at work. Also, it helps stop that negative history from repeating itself.

... That's just the sense I get when I read comment after comment saying "I'm so happy for the black people that one of their own was finally elected," something about a statement like that just seems.. Not good.

Many people (I imagine) are also empathic toward other groups of people with a history of political marginalization/subjugation in the US. Again, I call that empathy.

I mean whats next, "I'm so happy for the redheads that Carrot Top got elected. Now they don't have to be so sad about all the years of abuse we put them through"??

If redheads were once enslaved as a group, raped, beaten, hung, segregated and generally forced into the margins of history for several hundred years, I would be absolutely overjoyed to see a capable, academic and politically brilliant, caring, stately redhead earn the highest office in American. You betcha!

[jj]

Compared to Barack, who grew up wherever (not an American inner-city I don't think), and people are going to say he "acts white." It has to do with culture more than anything, IMO.

Bolding mine.

I think that this part of Walter's comments really, really do make a lot of sense, regardless of the original baiting he put in this thread.

As they keep saying about me, they can take jack off the hill ...

In the USA today, it's at least as much about class, and it's getting worse that way.

[boloboffin]

You may not mean to be doing this but you sound like you are suggesting that the white Alabamians who voted against Obama only did so because he was black.

I was born and raised in Alabama. I graduated high school and college in Alabama. I worked in convenience stores and bookstores, nursery fields and warehouses in Alabama.

I'll give you 2% off the top.

[Morrigan]

If you'd like to make up something more, please feel free to do so. Care to discuss with me what I actually said?

I admit I only skimmed the link Darat posted, but in that conversation with Luciana you seemed to imply something about "innate racism" because someone acknowledged a man's race and approved of the historical progress made in racial relations in America.

If you were calling it "racism" for other reasons that I missed, and you do not think the behaviour I described is racist, then I apologize for misrepresenting you.


I am about twenty years ahead of you. I guess a lot of you forget how the GOP courted Powell in 1996. Political amnesia, is it, or was Powell not black enough for your liking?

DR

I have no idea what this is about. For the record, I have nothing against Colin Powell specifically but I'm not American and I don't know what he has to do with anything.

[Walter Bellhaven]

What makes you bet on 95%? Just curious, and not looking for a fight. This is a skeptics' site, so I do wonder what reasoning backs your hunch.

Because you're all a bunch of college-educated intellectuals.. And I guess that's a racist statement itself! That only whiteys are into the whole college/intellectual thing!

[Dr Adequate]

Darth, less coffee, more beer.

Your point seems to be that racism was reduced to a minority view in America, oh, ages ago, so swooning over a black man being elected Prez in 2008 is really very silly, since America would have been cool with electing a black man as awesome as Obama years and years ago.

Therefore celebrating the election of Obama because, whoopee, America has lived up to those ideas about "all men created equal", is actually nasty anti-Americanism, because if I didn't hate America I'd have realized that the USA could have had a black President years ago if only he'd been as awesome cool as Obama.

To which I would reply ...

... yes, this may be true ... but now you guys did it. It is no longer in the realm of patriotic propaganda along the lines of : "Of course, the USA, being so great, would elect a black candidate if he was the best option". You actually did. You did. It really happened.

Well, really, Darth --- isn't it a great kick to know that you were right? You find it a mark of cynicism to celebrate the proof that you were right, because anyone who truly loved America would have believed that you were right without proof.

Now they cheer in celebration of the fact that you were right; and you're cross with them.

Have a beer. I have a glass of wine right here. I raise it in a toast.

"America!"

[godofpie]

Overt racism is easier to deal with then if hidden. I guess it depends on your POV. I was thinking more along the lines of the people I know that will use the N word as soon as the black guy leaves the building. I think the more racists that will now begin to feel socially uncomfortable espousing their racist views in public is a good thing.

[applecorped]

I think the more racists that will now begin to feel socially uncomfortable espousing their racist views in public is a good thing.

I agree.

[MattusMaximus]

Because you're all a bunch of college-educated intellectuals.. And I guess that's a racist statement itself! That only whiteys are into the whole college/intellectual thing!

What is it exactly that makes you think everyone posting here is college educated? I'm just curious to know, since you seem to be so good at peering into the hearts & minds of those on the other side of your screen.

Make unfounded assumptions much? :rolleyes:

[Tricky]

You may not mean to be doing this but you sound like you are suggesting that the white Alabamians who voted against Obama only did so because he was black.

I was born and raised in Alabama. I graduated high school and college in Alabama. I worked in convenience stores and bookstores, nursery fields and warehouses in Alabama.

I'll give you 2% off the top.

Me too, though I worked for roofing companies, restaurants and the state government.

Yes, a very large percentage of white Alabamians voted against Obama primarily because of his race. Including a number of my in-laws.

[varwoche]

I was pretty sure that one day a black person would be elected president but I never dreamed I'd see it in my lifetime. This is a profound and moving moment for me.

[Wangler]

Thank you. I hope and assume we will all work together to solve this nation's many problems.

I think our biggest problem is the fact that we have a Democrat in the White House......:D

All kidding aside, it was a greatday for America, and I hope we can all do our part to help make America work!

[peptoabysmal]

Amen, applecorped.

Well said.

[Hokulele]

I'm just tired of everyone saying "he's black, he's black, he's black," so I'm simply trying to even it out by saying he's white. Which he is. And BTW, I bet 95% or more of you are white. If I'm wrong then fine, but that's my hunch.


Yep, you are wrong.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3504118#post3504118


(But hey, is anyone really surprised, especially after reading WB's posting history?)

[applecorped]

Amen, applecorped.

Well said.

Thank you. I'm optimistic :).