Atheists & agnostics: do you ever pray?

[zaphod2016]

I myself am an agnostic. I do not know if God exists. I do not presume either way. And, in response to the typical Dawkin's talking point- I am agnostic about UFOs, Bigfoot, Zeus and Allah also. I can't prove a negative, and no evidence exists to support such claims.

However, I do catch myself praying from time to time. Of course, I have no idea what I'm praying to, and I don't expect it does any good, but I still find myself praying in times of high stress.

Two part question:

Am I the only one?

And- why do you suppose I (we) do that?

[Georg]

I am an agnostic (don´t know) atheist (don´t believe), I do not pray and have no ****** clue why you do.
Perhaps it´s more wishing than praying?

[Hokulele]

I swear at inanimate objects.

Does that count?

[paximperium]

I'm an agnostic atheist.
I don't pray.

If there is a problem I can do something about, I do something about.
If there is a problem I can't do anything about, I don't worry about it.
If I'm stressed, I meditate...or drink...or make fun of Creationists.

[paximperium]

I swear at inanimate objects.

Does that count?
I use to curse at my old car...now I whisper sweet love to my new one :D

[lionking]

I cross my fingers sometimes. Does that count?

I answered no. Stopped at about age 8.

[Bob Magness]

Back when I was a born-again Christian I prayed for obvious reasons. When I was a deist I prayed from time to time but it was only to say “thank you” when things went my way. I figured if a god had created the universe in such a way that things worked out for me than he deserved at least a thanks.

I became an atheist just a couple years ago. Initially I would catch myself praying when I found myself in a tight spot. Throughout my life when things had gotten tough I had always prayed, and one way or another things always seemed to work out for me in the end. It was very difficult for me to disassociate those two things in the beginning. The real test came a couple months after becoming an atheist. Let’s just say I ran into a HUGE obstacle with regards to my career. There were only two ways it could play out. Scenario #1 would have ended the career I love so much. Scenario #2 would have resulted in me continuing in my career in a much improved capacity. At that point in time everyone, including myself, felt that Scenario #1 was the most likely one to occur.

And there was absolutely nothing I could do to affect the outcome. It was easily one of the most stressful points in my life. And I felt the urge to pray, just so I could do SOMETHING. I can fully understand that desire. But I didn’t pray. I continued in me atheistic ways. Scenario #2 happened and things worked out great for me. I haven’t been tempted to pray since then.

Please note that the above was purely an emotional battle within me. Intellectually I had absolutely no belief in a god whatsoever. But the urge to pray at the time was still a strong emotional pull. I don’t feel that pull anymore. I’ve kicked the habit.

[zaphod2016]

When I was a deist I prayed from time to time but it was only to say “thank you”...Please note that the above was purely an emotional battle within me. Intellectually I had absolutely no belief in a god whatsoever. But the urge to pray at the time was still a strong emotional pull. I don’t feel that pull anymore. I’ve kicked the habit.

Example: watching the sunrise on the beach. Strong emotional response, and I pray as a generic "thank you" to whatever is responsible for such beauty- to whatever it is that made me and the sun live in such perfect proximity as to allow me to be aware of this scene.

You say you kicked the habit. Is this to say you consider it a bad habit, i.e. smoking?

[Rasmus]

However, I do catch myself praying from time to time.

How can that be? What is it you do that deserves the label "praying" if you do not belive in an entity to pray to?

I ask in all seriousness. I maintain that I am not capable of prayer because to pray for me means to adress specch/thoughts/feelings to a deity that may or may not be listening.

I could not sincerely write a letter to Harry Potter. Oh, I could pretend. I could write a letter and address it to "Harry Potter". I could ask how Harry has been and whar his plans for the weekend are, etc pp. Only, it would all be pretended. At no point would I think that I was actually "writign a letter to Harry Potter". I would look something that looked like a letter to Harry, but it would not be written with the intent of ever being sent to, receioved and read by Harry.

Same with prayer: I could go through the motions and pretend - but I would not be praying.

Of course, I have no idea what I'm praying to, and I don't expect it does any good, but I still find myself praying in times of high stress.

I am really curious what I would see if I observed you praying.

Two part question:

Am I the only one?

Yes!

Well, no, I do curse at inanimate objects and will sometimes appeal to higher powers ("Oh ****** Please don't let that hit me!" or "Why me?") but I would regard those as expressions of hope, fear, frustration or other emotions. (Actually, more joyful ones, too.)

But as an exclamamtion of "Oh, god, no!" doesn't make me a theist it's also not "praying". I'll say "bless you" if someone szeezes. It doesn't mean I belive that the sneezes exposes them to any demons that could take posession on them if I wasn't there to cast the counter-spell. (It *really* doesn't. I am German, we say "Gesundheit" which means "health" and I substitute "bless you" because that is what I learned long before I knew that "Gesundheit" was used in English, too. And now, even though I like it better to wish people health rather than protection of their souls from demons, I can't get out of an old habit ...)

[quot]And- why do you suppose I (we) do that?[/quote]

I don't know what you are doing or why.

If you do indeed do something I would call "prayer" I would suggest that we do it because we grow up in a culture that does prays. That would be a strong influence and we can't just decide to not be under it, especially at times of stress where thinking clearly doesn't always come easy.

If you are not doing something I would call prayer but do the things I also do, then I would suggest that you do it because the *********** car is acting up and missbehaving purpusfully and maliciously at the worst *********** moment possible even though it should know that you have an important appointment and it just doesn't *********** deserve any better!

Or, somewhat more reasonable, I believe there is something called an intentional stance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_stance). It's easy to use that for objects that come across os "misbehaving", especially if we don't understand why they malfunction.

[zaphod2016]

I am an agnostic (don´t know) atheist (don´t believe).

Can I call myself agnostic neutral, or is that a cop-out? And isn't fair to say that you believe the idea of God to be false? I've always has trouble with the semantics on this one.

I do not pray and have no ****** clue why you do.

Indoctrination during my youth? That's a guess.

Perhaps it´s more wishing than praying?

Perhaps, but what is the difference? Aren't prayers and wishes equally irrational?

[zaphod2016]

I could not sincerely write a letter to Harry Potter.

We both know Harry does not exist. I do not know God does not exists.

I am really curious what I would see if I observed you praying.

A young guy sitting on the beach as the first colors pour out over the horizon, all the while feeling an intense connection to forces beyond his comprehension.



higher powers ("Oh ****** Please don't let that hit me!" or "Why me?") but I would regard those as expressions of hope, fear, frustration or other emotions. (Actually, more joyful ones, too.)


Perhaps it is a semantic difference. A typical prayer is something like: "wow. life is pretty neat" or "God, if you exist, please keep my mom out of trouble" or "I sure hope heaven exists, because my Grandmother deserved to go there".

I'll say "bless you" if someone szeezes.

I use Gesundheit. But- I do say "amen" alot.

[Rasmus]

You say you kicked the habit. Is this to say you consider it a bad habit, i.e. smoking?

I would think it's a bad habit. Why should you believe that there is a responsible entity behind your life or the sunrise that you owe gratitude to?

Why should you lower your own value in that way?

Can I call myself agnostic neutral, or is that a cop-out? And isn't fair to say that you believe the idea of God to be false? I've always has trouble with the semantics on this one.

Atheist: Someone who lacks/does not have the believe, that there is a god or many gods.

If you dot believe there is a god, you are an atheist and it's indeed a cop-out to go on about how you can't really know that there isn't one and therefore are an agnostic. (Yes, you are an agnostic, and so am I on a very theoretical level. But at the end of the day I do not harbour a belief that there is something like a god.)

Perhaps, but what is the difference? Aren't prayers and wishes equally irrational?

No. A wish just means that I want for something to be true. It doesn't mean that I think that my wanting something to be true as such makes it nay more likely that it will be true.

Having a wish doesn't mean that I believe in magic wishes that come true just because they are spoken.

Prayer goes one step further even: Not only does prayer mean I believe my wish will become true (or has a good chance of becoming true) it also means that there is a concious, powerful entity making it so.

I wish for things. That is not irrational. Things become irrational where I think that my wishing for things will make a difference towardws the outcome all by itself.

[Rasmus]

We both know Harry does not exist. I do not know God does not exists.

That's not the point. It doesn't matter what I know about Harry Potter. Unless I think he exists, I cannot sincerely write the letter. If I did think Harry Potter existed I could write him a letter. (I would be mistaken, and the letter would never reach anyone, of course. But I would be sincere in the act of writing and sending it off.)

Easier still: Right now, you couldn't write a letter to me. You do not have my address. If somebody gave you a wrong address you might sit down and compose a letter to me and mail it off. If someone asked what you were doing you could say "I was writing a letter to Rasmus". And you would be right. (You would have made a mistake, though. But the difference is that you could sit down and write a letter to me.)

A young guy sitting on the beach as the first colors pour out over the horizon, all the while feeling an intense connection to forces beyond his comprehension.

I wouldn't call that prayer.

Perhaps it is a semantic difference. A typical prayer is something like: "wow. life is pretty neat"

Neither that.

or "God, if you exist, please keep my mom out of trouble" or "I sure hope heaven exists, because my Grandmother deserved to go there".

Those I would view as prayer. And I don't do things like that. I do not hope heaven exists. It doesn't and my wishful thinking is not going to make a difference. I might be wrong and heaven could exist - but then it wouldn't exist because of my wishful thinking, either.

"God, if you exist," - this just doesn't make sense to me on so many levels. I either think that god exists, or i do not think that. Regardless of whether I turn out ot be mistaken in the end, I'll act accordingly. You're basicially falling to both your cultural heritage and Pascal's wager.

What if the God that does exists despises the grandmothers of people who pray?

I use Gesundheit. But- I do say "amen" alot.

:)

[H3LL]

I have a jug of milk but still don't pray.

.

[Scazon]

No. I assume that saying "Holy bejasus f**k" occasionally doesn't count, unless praying to the female pudendum counts as well.

[CJW]

I voted no - But from time to time, especially while on the golf course, I may petition "god" to "damn it".

[Undesired Walrus]

I shouted 'Thankyou Thankyou' when I finally got my Internet Connection working after several weeks and kissed the monitor, but nothing else.

[Georg]

Can I call myself agnostic neutral, or is that a cop-out? And isn't fair to say that you believe the idea of God to be false? I've always has trouble with the semantics on this one.

I believe it to be false, that´s right. But since I do not know it to be false, I´m an agnostic atheist. As for your copout: That´s easy to answer.
Do you hold a belief in god(s)? If yes, theist or deist, if no, atheist. You can only answer that for yourself. What I personally would see as a copout is if you would state: I do not know if I believe. I cannot imagine that this is possible.
(a)theism: deals with belief
(a)gnosticism: deals with knowledge.

Indoctrination during my youth? That's a guess.


....and probably a good one.


Perhaps, but what is the difference? Aren't prayers and wishes equally irrational?

Absolutely not, at least not for me.

wish: I want something to happen.

prayer: I think I can influence the outcome by adressing god(s) and asking it/them to change the laws of physics to fulfill my wish.

[bellonax]

I still sometimes have a knee-jerk reaction of hoping for some kind of intervention when things are going badly, but the moment I realise what I'm doing I stop and wonder at myself.

I don't think it's that surprising. I believed in god until I was 16 and am only 23 now.

[JWideman]

I talk to myself a lot. Which is pretty much what I did when I used to pray.

[Lanzy]

Wow, Talk about hedging your bets.

I voted NO!

[Professor Yaffle]

Even back when I was a christian, and prayed, I never believed that my prayers would influence the outcome of anything. I think they were more for my own benefit - having some way to express how I was feeling and feel like someone was listening. Since I stopped believing, on rare occasions I have found myself going through the same sort of ritual even though I know there is nobody at the other end. For example when my baby niece was going through a tough time and ended up having a heart transplant, I often found myself with my hands together thinking "please let her be okay" - just as I would have done when I still believed in God.

ETA - I voted grey area.

[erlando]

Missing the option "Hell no!", I went for No!

[Bikewer]

I have no problem labeling myself as atheist, and would consider praying to be utterly pointless.

I do curse with some fluency.....

[Beth]

I myself am an agnostic. I do not know if God exists. I do not presume either way. And, in response to the typical Dawkin's talking point- I am agnostic about UFOs, Bigfoot, Zeus and Allah also. I can't prove a negative, and no evidence exists to support such claims. I feel similarly.

However, I do catch myself praying from time to time. Of course, I have no idea what I'm praying to, and I don't expect it does any good, but I still find myself praying in times of high stress.

Two part question:

Am I the only one?

And- why do you suppose I (we) do that?

No, you are not the only one. I've considered myself an agnostic since I first learned the word and what it meant as a freshman in college. However, I was raised in a religious home and prayer was a daily part of life. I have, at various points in my life leaned more toward atheism and at other times more toward theism, but I've always prayed. Perhaps it is simply a habit, but I don't consider it a bad habit but a good one. While I don't know if any god exists, I do know that there is a conscious intelligent entity listening who has the power to change things. That's me and that's enough.

My current favorite prayer is:

Thank you for this day, this opportunity to live and to learn and to love. Help me to make the most of it. Help me to work hard, to do good work, and to do good.

Basically a daily affirmation type thing really, but that's okay. Daily affirmations are a good habit too, but I've not been able to make that work for me. I just feel too silly and self-conscious saying things to myself in the mirror. I don't feel silly or self-conscious when I'm praying, probably because I've been doing it for longer than I can remember.

[Tricky]

Obviously, it depends on your definition of "pray". I choose to use Ambrose Bierce (http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/p.html).

"PRAY, v.
To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."

By that definition, no, I don't ever pray.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I prey daily.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

G*d damn! I mistakenly voted "grey" when I meant to vote "no". I think this invalidates the whole poll. :o

Based on the few occasions when death or serious injury seemed imminent, I usually say, "Oh "****"" (per Penn and Teller less the bull part). :scared:

[DC]

I was an agnostic (dont know) and never prayed, meanwhile i am more of an Atheist (i still dont know but im pretty sure there is no God) and i dont pray.

But i keep saying, oh my God, in some situations, cant stopp that somehow :)

PS: When God has no time to listen and help the starving kids in Africa while they are praying, i dont want to take away some of his time with my needles prayers.

[Pardalis]

I have a shrine to Keira Knightley in my bedroom but I wouldn't call that praying.

[Georg]

I was an agnostic (dont know) and never prayed, meanwhile i am more of an Atheist (i still dont know but im pretty sure there is no God) and i dont pray.

You are not "more of an atheist" then, but simply both. Since one deals with belief and the other one with knowledge, they are not mutually exclusive.

PS: When God has no time to listen and help the starving kids in Africa while they are praying, i dont want to take away some of his time with my needles prayers.

Good one :D.

[Skeptic Guy]

G*d damn! I mistakenly voted "grey" when I meant to vote "no". I think this invalidates the whole poll. :o

Based on the few occasions when death or serious injury seemed imminent, I usually say, "Oh "****"" (per Penn and Teller less the bull part). :scared:

Like Gord, the closest I come to praying is cursing out inanimate, and sometimes animate, objects. I trained myself to stop saying "Bless you" when people sneeze, but still say "Gezundheit" when in polite company...though I do feel guilty about that.

I see no reason to pray as it doesn't do any good.

I prey daily.

Now this is something I can sink my teeth into.

[DC]

You are not "more of an atheist" then, but simply both. Since one deals with belief and the other one with knowledge, they are not mutually exclusive.



Good one :D.

the way it is used around here, in switzerland, Agnostics are those that simply say, I dont know, when asked if there is a god, and an Atheist will answer, there is no God.
my answer depends on my mood, sometimes i will say, i dont know, but when it is a priest asking me, i for sure will say, there is no God. Just to provoke him :D

[That_guy]

I pray as a dig to religious associates of mine sometimes. I assume that doesn't count.

[DC]

Like Gord, the closest I come to praying is cursing out inanimate, and sometimes animate, objects. I trained myself to stop saying "Bless you" when people sneeze, but still say "Gezundheit" when in polite company...though I do feel guilty about that.

I see no reason to pray as it doesn't do any good.



Now this is something I can sink my teeth into.

can i use "Gesundheit" also in english? or where are you from?

[Georg]

the way it is used around here, in switzerland, Agnostics are those that simply say, I dont know, when asked if there is a god, and an Atheist will answer, there is no God.

Same here in Germany. Still wrong though.
ETA: not completely wrong. Just not precise.

my answer depends on my mood, sometimes i will say, i dont know, but when it is a priest asking me, i for sure will say, there is no God. Just to provoke him :D


:)

[DC]

Same here in Germany. Still wrong though.



:)

oh your from Germany :) i thought you are from Bavaria :D

just kidding

[Beth]

Obviously, it depends on your definition of "pray". Indeed it does. Just as whether one is atheist or agnostic or believer depends on the definition of god.


I choose to use Ambrose Bierce (http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/devils/p.html).

"PRAY, v.
To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."

By that definition, no, I don't ever pray.

Interesting and amusing, but I've not seen that definition before. According to that definition, relatively few people, including the OP, can be said to pray.

[Georg]

oh your from Germany :) i thought you are from Bavaria :D

just kidding

No worries, I´m used to that.......

[Marquis de Carabas]

I trained myself to stop saying "Bless you" when people sneeze, but still say "Gezundheit" when in polite company...though I do feel guilty about that.
You feel guilty about wishing someone good health?

[Rasmus]

can i use "Gesundheit" also in english? or where are you from?

I've heard it used in both the US and Canada, not sure if it is common or used at all in the UK.

[learner]

Just don't do it. Praying is childish. I vote- NO. Unless, of course. you are praying to the fishing gods ( there are many) this works occasionally.

[Tiktaalik]

Once, as a teenager, I was rock-climbing with a friend & leading a 5.9, which was too hard for me. I knew I was going to fall. I was trying to take my mind off that fact & concentrate. Suddenly, I found myself singing "Rock-a my soul in the bosom of Abraham..." under my breath.

I was raised atheist, although around a lot of gospel music, which my mother liked.

I think it had more to do with the rock thing than anything else ("Rock-a my soul...").

(P.S. yes, I fell, but my partner caught me since I was on belay).

[Skeptic Guy]

can i use "Gesundheit" also in english? or where are you from?

It's not uncommon in English. I studied German (though obviously not the spelling) when I was in high school in a little college.

You feel guilty about wishing someone good health?

Not that so much as the superstition behind saying anything. Sneezing is a normal physiological response and doesn't require a blessing or a wish for good health. To me both smack of superstition, but maybe I'm being overly sensitive.

[quixotecoyote]

I'm an atheist so I don't really pray, although occasionally I'll sing along to gospel music if its on the radio and occasionally my cursing reaches the point it might be prayerful.

[Agular]

I have better ways in which to waste my time.

[Lilith]

I feel no urge to pray.

About 2 wks ago, my coworker, who had just discovered I am an atheist, said that she didn't believe it. I shrugged my shoulders and said OK. She elaborated that anytime anyone tells her that they are an atheist, she simply can't believe that they really are. She doesn't think it's possible to not have some belief in a god. I said OK again, but she continued with her theory that us atheists are just pretending. I think she wanted more of a debate from me.

[Safe-Keeper]

I must confess I sometimes 'pray' to nothing in particular, or to things, even though I know there's no one out there who can hear me. It makes me feel better. Nothing religious too it, really, more than there's anthropomorphizing involved when talking to your computer or car or whatever when it doesn't work.

[Rasmus]

I feel no urge to pray.

About 2 wks ago, my coworker, who had just discovered I am an atheist, said that she didn't believe it. I shrugged my shoulders and said OK. She elaborated that anytime anyone tells her that they are an atheist, she simply can't believe that they really are. She doesn't think it's possible to not have some belief in a god. I said OK again, but she continued with her theory that us atheists are just pretending. I think she wanted more of a debate from me.

You could have easily given her one: What could possibly motivate anyone to pretend to be an atheist?

[Giggywig]

Only in the 4th quarter or the 9th inning.

[GreedyAlgorithm]

It's been maybe 5 years since I realized I was an atheist. I grew up very, very strongly fundamentalist Christian, encouraged to pray every moment of every day and leave everything up to God. I doubt I will ever completely kick the habit of what I imagine is experimentally indistinguishable from prayer, but I never do it after thinking about it, only instinctively, and IIRC only about once a month now.

I'd rather not do it but at that rate it's not really worth working on eliminating. I have better things to do, like post on the internet.

[Fredrik]

When I get it all-in for a thousand dollars with KK vs AA, I'm thinking "come on, give me a king....king king king king kiiiiiiiiing". Does that count?

[zombiebex]

I clicked yes.

I do sometimes find myself saying to myself, "Oh please, oh please, oh please," over things like Bingo and the recent presidential election, which I would define as prayer. Not to a God, per se, more in a desperate attempt to will the universe to bend in my favor.

Couldn't say why I do it. Maybe just a way of calming myself. A way to not get too worked up over things I have no control over. I certainly never expect it to work, and in the next moment I feel silly for it.

[Silentknight]

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it." --Voltaire (Hey, someone had to post it.)

Also, since I tend to be a very lonely person, I pray on a daily basis for some pussy. For some reason my cat keeps walking in and rubbing up against my leg. I guess the Lord really does work in mysterious ways.

[Damien Evans]

No, there's no point.

[catbasket]

Why are so many people against praying?

pray

• verb 1 address a prayer to God or another deity. 2 wish or hope earnestly for a particular outcome.

As an atheist I often pray.

[Blackadder]

I have only prayed when I was deep down in the lowest situation of my life so far. It only strengthened my atheism , because afterwards I realized it was caused by my situation. It's only human to search for help when you in trouble even if that help is illusion.

[Lucifuge Rofocale]

I pray to the gods of poker, usually before the river or showdown.

[wolfgirl]

I do sometimes find myself saying to myself, "Oh please, oh please, oh please," over things like Bingo and the recent presidential election, which I would define as prayer. Not to a God, per se, more in a desperate attempt to will the universe to bend in my favor.

Couldn't say why I do it. Maybe just a way of calming myself. A way to not get too worked up over things I have no control over. I certainly never expect it to work, and in the next moment I feel silly for it.This really defines me, too. I definitely do not think there is anyone to pray to, yet I find myself doing the "oh, please, oh, please, oh, please" thing quite often. It does feel like trying to bend the universe to fit my needs, as you said, though I have absolutely no illusion that it will do so (though it did work on Tuesday night :)).

I did, however, actually pray once in my adult life. When my mom was dying and I was sitting at her bedside in the ICU waiting for the end, I found myself praying that IF I had been wrong all this time and there really was a god and a heaven, that he not punish my mom for my mistake. She deserved to go to heaven if there was one. I felt rather silly doing it, but I thought it was only fair. (This was after I had already turned away several nuns who wanted to know if I would like them to pray with me. It was a Catholic hospital. One of them, even after I had turned her down politely, sat with me and just asked me questions about my mom and her life, which was nice of her. She did not try to preach at me, which I expected when she sat down.)

[Mercutio]

It actually surprised me a bit, but I found myself in a couple of situations over the past few years.

My son was in the hospital (eventually diagnosed with diabetes--score one for medical science); I did not pray--I did not consciously make that decision, it was simply that there was always something real to do.

My sister was in the hospital (yeah, it was serious, but she is ok); I drove 7 hours to give blood (they said she didn't need it--they were wrong), and it never crossed my mind to pray.

I was in Athens, on my last night, and had not yet been able to contact Cleo (for you newbies, "Cleopatra" on this forum, my closest friend here), and was tearing my hair out hoping to see her. Never once crossed my mind to pray for it. (Yes, we did meet, thanks to a Fulbright staff member.)

If you had asked me before these incidents, I never would have sworn that I would not have prayed under these circumstances. I could not know. Maybe there is some unforeseen something that would get me to pray, but I sincerely have no idea what it might be.

So... I do not pray. As McCain has said, "I have been tested." I do not pray.

[zaphod2016]

So many great responses. Let me respond to a few:

I believe it to be false, that´s right. But since I do not know it to be false, I´m an agnostic atheist. As for your copout: That´s easy to answer.
Do you hold a belief in god(s)? If yes, theist or deist, if no, atheist. You can only answer that for yourself. What I personally would see as a copout is if you would state: I do not know if I believe. I cannot imagine that this is possible.
(a)theism: deals with belief
(a)gnosticism: deals with knowledge.


Here's my problem: I've never "believed" anything. My Grandma took me to church a lot in my formative years, until I kept asking her: "but how do you know?". I set a trap for Santa at age 6. The Easter Bunny never made any sense to me whatsoever. Whenever I catch myself thinking that something is true, I immediately seek out the opposing view(s) as a matter of habit (I originally came here to JREF to vet a few conspiracy theories I think are plausible). "Belief" to me, is another cop-out. I divide things into two categories- things I can prove, and things I can't prove. I can prove Santa is a myth, and for a long time I thought I could prove God was a myth too. But it depends on your definition of God- there are plenty of theories that simply can't be tested (yet).

I call myself "agnostic", and I will tell you I find the Dawkins approach to atheism somewhat arrogant. As a scientist, Dawkins knows perfectly well that, by definition, we cannot test the Christian God in the physical world. I find the religious equally, if not more arrogant, for precisely the same reason. But I do respect belief. i.e. you have the right to believe God is false, and my yokel neighbors have the right to believe God is real, and no one should be persecuted for their (lack of) religious beliefs.

can i use "Gesundheit" also in english? or where are you from?

English-speaking American, raised in German/Irish/Jewish hybrid family. Not sure if it is yiddish slang or a real German word to be honest- people in both sides of my family used it.

I must confess I sometimes 'pray' to nothing in particular, or to things, even though I know there's no one out there who can hear me. It makes me feel better. Nothing religious too it, really, more than there's anthropomorphizing involved when talking to your computer or car or whatever when it doesn't work.

I think this is exactly what I was trying to describe. I think anthropomorphizing is the perfect word to describe it.

[zaphod2016]

I have an hour to kill, so if you'll indulge me, I'd like to babble on a bit about the "sunrise" example of a prayer.

What do we know about the sunrise? The Earth is rotating, so that at this time of the day the Sun is just barely visible, and due to the angle of the light, we get all sorts of cool colors. The atmosphere serves as a giant prism.

This light bounces off my eyeball, triggering a response to various parts of my brain. Endorphins are released, creating the sensations of happiness and peace, which are nothing more than chemical reactions.

And then- my mind wanders. And this, friends, is the part that still amazes me. This blob of fat living in my skull can somehow invent new ideas, seemingly out of nothing at all. How is this possible?

Artificial intelligence, neural networks, psychology, chemistry- just to name a few fields- are accelerating now at a rate never before witnessed in the history of Earth's many civilizations. Every day we take baby steps towards not only understanding the process of thought and thinking, but actually simulating this process via a machine. Incredible!

I exist at a moment in space time where the shadow of the unknown still hangs over the particular mystery of thought. Maybe my grandchildren will someday have sentient robots to laugh at this ignorance, just as I once laughed at my Grandmother's understanding of the cable box. Or, maybe the mystery will remain for another 10,000 years. Who knows?

Pull it way back to the macro scale. Assume that the laws of physics explain everything, and it is only our own limited abilities that prevent us from knowing everything there is to know. Where did these laws of physics come from? I know- they didn't come from anywhere, they just simply are.

How zen. And that of course triggers my mind down another mad race towards eastern philosophy, which triggers thoughts of Samurai, and for some reason, Jedi Knights, which takes me back to the smell of popcorn.

And all of you reading the word "popcorn"- the blobs in your skulls can simulate the smell, and the taste, and the texture, just by reading some translated binary code. How cool is that?

There is an "I" right now, just as there is a "you" reading this. We exist. I know most people take this for granted, but I really feel humbled every time I think of this. And that is what a "prayer" is to me; an honest thank you given in exchange for all that I have, offered earnestly to whatever it is that has given this to me.

God. Fate. Physics. All of the above? Who knows? Not me. And so, I am humbled. My Grandmother used the word "God" to describe this. But then she made the all-too-common mistake of arbitrarily assigning rules to this creator. Thou shalt not this, and thou shalt not that. I find this approach totally backwards- it is the rules (of physics?) that govern me, not I who governs the rules.

[Slimething]

About 2 wks ago, my coworker, who had just discovered I am an atheist, said that she didn't believe it. I shrugged my shoulders and said OK. She elaborated that anytime anyone tells her that they are an atheist, she simply can't believe that they really are. She doesn't think it's possible to not have some belief in a god. I said OK again, but she continued with her theory that us atheists are just pretending. I think she wanted more of a debate from me.

This happened to me last week. I got a call from the lab and the chemist there asked for advice then all of a sudden asked me if I was an atheist and I said yes. (Healthy company grapevine.) He started telling me all about how he wasn't a really strong believer but his faith helped him. I said that was nice but I didn't need that. He went on a few minutes then I decided to stop him by asking him if I had answered his question. (I'm v. busy.) That ended it.

As far as praying, I don't. At my age, my significant peeps are beggining to die off and sometimes I wish I could give some of them some of my years. Sometimes, I wish people into the corn field.

[CriticalThinking]

Of course I pray. Last night I asked God how he screwed up when creating humans. He didn't anything back, but I know he still loves me, despite my flaws. :)

[phantomb]

I am a strong atheist, and, like the OP, have prayed occasionally (maybe 3 times is my entire life) when in the middle of a very stressful situation (I've also hit desks or tables in anger and frustration, and with as little expectation that the inanimate object would fix my problem). My parents were not religious and I was never taught to pray, though I live in a primarily Christian country, so the idea of prayer would never have been foreign to me growing up.

I've never given much thought as to why I have done it in the past. It seems to me that the only reason we have religion in the world in the first place is that the Human mind does, depending on the person and the circumstances, occasionally act in irrational ways and accept irrational ideas (magical thinking, psychological defense mechanisms, etc.). I fully expect that had I been completely removed from knowledge of religion during my life, I would have done something similar to prayer, such as talking to myself, when put in the same circumstances.