Larry Summers Comments At Harvard A Disqualification For Treasury Secretary?

[Cicero]

NPR's Diane Rehm expressed incredulity that Obama would even consider ex Harvard President Summers for a cabinet positon because of his non politically correct comment that, " The shortage of elite female scientists may stem in part from "innate" differences between men and women."

***.."I felt I was going to be sick," said Nancy Hopkins, a biology professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who listened to part of Summers's speech Friday at a session on the progress of women in academia organized by the National Bureau of Economic Research in Cambridge, Mass. She walked out in what she described as a physical sense of disgust.

"My heart was pounding and my breath was shallow," she said. "I was extremely upset."..***

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19181-2005Jan18.html

A female full professor of biology at MIT getting the vapors from listening to Summers remarks (that he prefaced by saying he intended to be "controversial" and "to provoke you,"), should not disqualify Summers from being Secretary of Treasury.


06:30
Rehm: "Even after what happened at Harvard, I am surprised that his name is up there."

Later on in the hour, Rehm reacts to a phone caller who challenged her opinion about Summer's viability as Treasury Secretary. Jeanne Cummings, "The Politico" reporter, in sister solidarity, propped up Rehm by adding, "Why import the baggage?

37:45
Rehm: "I do think he would be a perfectly qualified and capable treasury secretary. What I was raising were the doubts and the questions that trailed behind him after that experience at Harvard. While he may absolutely have the perfect mind and perfect way forward, why choose someone with that baggage to begin with?"

Why not? Even in Daine's reply, she confirms his attributes, but never explains exactly what these "doubts" are about, or even if they are legitimate.

Summers has been a close advisor to Obama throughout the campaign. Where was Rehm's discomfort with Summers as Obama's economic advisor before Obama won the election?



http://wamu.org/programs/dr/

[NotJesus]

I feel I'm going to be sick. My heart is pounding and my breathing is shallow. I'm extremely upset.

I agree with Cic... No! I just can't do it! [passes out]

[Ausmerican]

One hopes that if either of these women were facing surgery for a brain tumor and the most qualified surgeon had, at one point in a long and successful career, said something that could possibly be construed as sexist they would be equally firm in their beliefs.

[Cicero]

One hopes that if either of these women were facing surgery for a brain tumor and the most qualified surgeon had, at one point in a long and successful career, said something that could possibly be construed as sexist they would be equally firm in their beliefs.

Diane Rehm's brain surgery is long over due. She put contact lens solution and perfume in two identical clear unmarked bottles for airline travel. During the flight, she cleaned her lens with the contents from the perfume bottle and then placed it in her eye causing a nice burning sensation. Her sense of smell is no better than her common sense.

[Beerina]

NPR's Diane Rehm expressed incredulity that Obama would even consider ex Harvard President Summers for a cabinet positon because of his non politically correct comment that, " The shortage of elite female scientists may stem in part from "innate" differences between men and women."

***.."I felt I was going to be sick," said Nancy Hopkins, a biology professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who listened to part of Summers's speech Friday at a session on the progress of women in academia organized by the National Bureau of Economic Research in Cambridge, Mass. She walked out in what she described as a physical sense of disgust.

"My heart was pounding and my breath was shallow," she said. "I was extremely upset."..***




I believe George Will took care of this one once and for all (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40073-2005Jan26.html):

Hysteria -- A functional disturbance of the nervous system, characterized by such disorders as anaesthesia, hyperaesthesia, convulsions, etc., and usually attended with emotional disturbances and enfeeblement or perversion of the moral and intellectual faculties.

...

Someone like MIT biology professor Nancy Hopkins, the hysteric (see above) who, hearing Summers, "felt I was going to be sick. My heart was pounding and my breath was shallow." And, "I just couldn't breathe because this kind of bias makes me physically ill." She said that if she had not bolted from the room, "I would've either blacked out or thrown up."

Is this the fruit of feminism? A woman at the peak of the academic pyramid becomes theatrically flurried by an unwelcome idea and, like a Victorian maiden exposed to male coarseness, suffers the vapors and collapses on the drawing room carpet in a heap of crinolines until revived by smelling salts and the offending brute's contrition?


'tis a beauteous thing...

[Cicero]

I believe George Will


'tis a beauteous thing...

This is why Diane Rehm's protestations about Obama choosing Sommers is all the more phony since she never actually mentioned what all this bad "baggage" is supposed to be as a result of his speech. I don't think Rehm wanted to get into a discussion about how Hopkins swooned at the mere mention of "innate differences between men and women."

[Puppycow]

I heard that too. Good grief, Summers has been punished enough already. He lost his job at Harvard and that was years ago now. He wasn't even making a claim, he was asking a question.

The feminist theory for why there are so few scientists and mathematicians is that sexism is at fault. What is the evidence for that I wonder? Is is a crime even to ask that question? Perhaps we just have to accept it as a first principle that requires no proof because it is self-evident. :rolleyes:

[Puppycow]

Also, clearly the reason why there are no women in the NFL is sexism! Anyone who asks whether "innate differences" might not be the reason is a sexist pig!

[bpesta22]

Odd that people in the link were pointing to person who statistics to attack a straw man version of Summers point.

The literature on gender differences in cognitive ability is pretty vast. Didn't Pinker even have a public debate on it with some other expert (and argue essentially the same thing summers is)?

[Cicero]

As Rehm and Cummings have already tipped their hands, if Obama chooses Sommers, he will be the recipient of the Palin treatment by the usual wacky female pundits on the left i.e., Maddow, Clift, Wolf, Steinem, etc.

[Gregoire]

NPR's Diane Rehm expressed incredulity that Obama would even consider ex Harvard President Summers for a cabinet positon because of his non politically correct comment that, " The shortage of elite female scientists may stem in part from "innate" differences between men and women."

***.."I felt I was going to be sick," said Nancy Hopkins, a biology professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who listened to part of Summers's speech Friday at a session on the progress of women in academia organized by the National Bureau of Economic Research in Cambridge, Mass. She walked out in what she described as a physical sense of disgust.

"My heart was pounding and my breath was shallow," she said. "I was extremely upset."..***

I am glad the JREF forum and other skeptics don't try to ban people just because they ask a question that leads someone to say, "my heart was pounding and my breath was shallow" etc. It amazes me that academic institutions in this day and age are so unskeptical.

The fact that Mr. Obama had chosen an advisor who was actually hated by some on the kooky left was a sign to me that maybe he is who he claims to be.

[Lemastre]

I suppose women have shied from hard sciences owing to social conditioning that has for generations identified some occupations as not appropriate for women. The result is that the roster of hard scientists is still predominantly men. But, that doesn't preclude there being some influence by innate differences between men and women, does it? Offhand, I can't imagine what they are, since women seem able to multitask more efficiently than men, which is useful in most careers, and they seem to have abstract reasoning abilities at least equal to men. Although when I was teaching a lab in college freshman chemistry many years ago, it was the girls who couldn't immediately accept that a could equal b, since an a is an a and a b is a b. Perhaps this was just unfamiliarity with basic algebra more than a failure of imagination.

[corplinx]

Wait, so let me get this right. You .... support? ... Obama sticking to his guns and keeping Sommers?

[linusrichard]

One hopes that if either of these women were facing surgery for a brain tumor and the most qualified surgeon had, at one point in a long and successful career, said something that could possibly be construed as sexist they would be equally firm in their beliefs.

I think one of the differences between a brain surgeon and a treasury secretary is that the treasury secretary actually needs to be taken seriously by people in order to be effective. Without making any judgment on whether or not Summers's comments at Harvard should have been offensive, it is an objective fact that they did offend, and it may be sensible for Obama to make sure that the public faces of his administration are people with the discretion to not say things that greatly offend people, unless there is some corresponding benefit that outweighs the offense.

Then again, Joe Biden, right?

[Cicero]

I think one of the differences between a brain surgeon and a treasury secretary is that the treasury secretary actually needs to be taken seriously by people in order to be effective. Without making any judgment on whether or not Summers's comments at Harvard should have been offensive, it is an objective fact that they did offend, and it may be sensible for Obama to make sure that the public faces of his administration are people with the discretion to not say things that greatly offend people, unless there is some corresponding benefit that outweighs the offense.

Then again, Joe Biden, right?

To allow political correctness to muzzle any potential controversial discussions is a far greater offense than the prospect of NOW's budget straining to compensate for extra smelling salts to revive their members everytime Sommers says "there are innate differences between men and women."

Obama is supposed to operate without undue influence from special interest groups. This is his chance to prove he meant what he said.

[Cicero]

PBS Washington Week's Gwen Ifill, Janet Hook and Karen Tumulty mock Larry Summers as a possible candidate for Treasury because he had the audacity to notice males and females have innate differences.

It seems that NOW and a majority of msm female pundits/reporters/ journalists stirring the pot about Sommers to insure Obama disqualifies him. If Obama ignorss them that would be a step in the right direction that he is actually for change.

[KoihimeNakamura]

Or not choosing him is that he doesn't want to pick battles he doesn't need to fight.

It can be read either way. (Although, I can't see why that'd disqualify him for his position, but I admit I'm not insane)

[DanishDynamite]

"The shortage of elite female scientists may stem in part from "innate" differences between men and women."

It may indeeed. And it may not. Who knows?

No one knows at present.

Why would the quoted question make any difference to anyone's reputation, viability or ability to be a part of the Obama administration?

[tomwaits]

Just to clarify, not nominating Summers for Treasury Secretary would not necessarily mean he was bowing to these criticisms.

[DanishDynamite]

Just to clarify, not nominating Summers for Treasury Secretary would not necessarily mean he was bowing to these criticisms.
Just to clarify, not not nominating Summers for Treasury Secretary would not necessarily mean he was bowing to these criticisms.

[Cicero]

Just to clarify, not not nominating Summers for Treasury Secretary would not necessarily mean he was bowing to these criticisms.

Since Sommers has been a trusted economic advisor to Obama during his campaign, why would Obama become weak-kneed when it came to appoint him to the positon full time? Since NOW and liberal female pundits have essentially thrown down the gauntlet of challenge should Obama choose Sommers, he would be kowtowing to them if he didn't let Sommers go through the official appointment process.

[KoihimeNakamura]

Or decididng that he doesn't want to pick a fight with them. Ever hear the saying 'pick your battles carefully?'

[Skeptic]

NPR's Diane Rehm expressed incredulity that Obama would even consider ex Harvard President Summers for a cabinet positon because of his non politically correct comment

If Obama is indeed considering Summers, then I see how Obama is beginning to "disappoint" the people who are most rabid in their support of him. Of course, this is to be expected, and hardly means anything, pro or con, about Obama. After all, unless Obama is indeed the fanatical politically-correct crypto-communist he is supposed to be according to his worst detractors and his most rabid supporters, it is inevitable his cabinet position decisions will disappoint those supporters (and surprise the detractors) by "daring" to consider people for positions despite not being 100% politically correct about everything.

[Cicero]

Or decididng that he doesn't want to pick a fight with them. Ever hear the saying 'pick your battles carefully?'

If Obama simply ignores NOW and the assorted liberal pundits pushing their agenda then there isn't any fight. Just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

The Treasury Sec positon is too important at this juncture to consider anything other than the qualifications of the candidate, not their ability to kiss a special interest groups posterior.

[Puppycow]

According to Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15612.html) (Jeanne Cummings' is one of Politico's senior reporters. This particular article was not written by her, but was written by female reporters) there is "intense backlash from women’s groups" against Summers (not "Sommers").

Boy, but women sure do know how to hold a grudge. :rolleyes:
Summers already lost his job at Harvard. He has apologized over and over. How much does he need to be punished?

[SezMe]

Obama is supposed to operate without undue influence from special interest groups. This is his chance to prove he meant what he said.
There's your problem, Cicero. You will judge his action base on special interest groups. But you have no basis for that judgement. He may well make a decision based on other criteria that you nor I know anything about. But no matter, you will chose to judge him on the criterion you established.

Surely you see the folly in this.

[Cicero]

There's your problem, Cicero. You will judge his action base on special interest groups. But you have no basis for that judgement. He may well make a decision based on other criteria that you nor I know anything about. But no matter, you will chose to judge him on the criterion you established.

Surely you see the folly in this.

If he does not select Summers, I will look forward to hear the reasons why his closest economic adviser was jettisoned for another Treasury Secretary selection.

These fanatical liberal women's groups have taken every opportunity to voice their objections to Summers. Steve Kroft missed a great opportunity to ask Obama about Summers on "60 Minutes." He was only interested in asking about Hillary as possible Secretary of State.

IS the only way Obama can get Summers is if Hillary is also in Obama's cabinet?

[ZouPrime]

The reason why there are so few women in say, physics or mathematics isn't because of sexism, it's because women are smarter than men. Smart women who have the brains to tackle these majors chose instead biology or medicine (where they are often more numerous than men) because those fields actually lead to well paying jobs instead of a lifetime of misery hunting for government grants from a smelly office in the faculty basement.

[Shadowdweller]

The reason why there are so few women in say, physics or mathematics isn't because of sexism, it's because women are smarter than men. Smart women who have the brains to tackle these majors chose instead biology...
..actually lead to well paying jobs instead of a lifetime of misery hunting for government grants from a smelly office in the faculty basement.
Speaking as a biologist, I have to say I sense a little disconnect here...

[Cicero]

The reason why there are so few women in say, physics or mathematics isn't because of sexism, it's because women are smarter than men. Smart women who have the brains to tackle these majors chose instead biology or medicine (where they are often more numerous than men) because those fields actually lead to well paying jobs instead of a lifetime of misery hunting for government grants from a smelly office in the faculty basement.

Well, Nancy Hopkins, full professor of biology at MIT, is the one who required smelling salts after hearing Summers say "females are innately different from males." She may well be "smarter" than the male species, but her constitution appears to be as fragile as a Corpse Plant.

[Puppycow]

IS the only way Obama can get Summers is if Hillary is also in Obama's cabinet?

Good point. Picking Hillary could give him cover for also picking Summers. He might be smart to announce them together, and have them stand together.

[TheJim]

I am not a huge Summers fan but I want him to have the job if for no other reason to piss off the women's groups. Since all of the front runners are Summer portages why not get the real deal as they will call him anyways for advice. But, these women groups still purposely misquote what he said and fight a stray man and like creationist dismiss anything that does not align with there politics.

[Cicero]

Now that Obama has chosen a Lesbian for Homeland Security, he may be able to get Summers for Treasury.

[Cicero]

Bravo President-elect Barack Obama! Appointing Larry Summers as your chief economic advisor and head of the National Economic Council (a position that influences the Treasury Secretary's strategy), is a good indication that you will not be swayed by special interest groups such as NOW.

[PauPau]

Larry Summers makes my stomach churn. But not because of his comments on women while he was at Harvard. For those of us fighting for economic justice on both sides of the border his appointment is frightening. But I have faith in Obama still...we'll see what happens.

From the Center for International Policy:

Appointing Larry Summers our Treasury secretary would be a grave mistake, and a slap in the face to Mexico and those who struggle for economic justice on both sides of the border.

Summers, while serving as under secretary of the Treasury in 1995, engineered the destruction of Mexico's economy by increasing interest rates to unmanageable levels—business and farm loans went from 11% to 56%, credit card rates from 7% to 61%, home loans from 5% to 75%, car loans from 7% to 91%. The result was massive human suffering and the forced migration of millions of economic refugees to the United States.

Although Wall Street banks profited handsomely, the impact of 1995 loan interest rate increases in Mexico was more than millions of people and businesses could handle. Thousands of farms and businesses, both large and small, went bankrupt. In 1995 alone over 12,000 of Mexico's businesses filed for bankruptcy, and as economic activity came to a standstill and demand was cut, orders were canceled and plants operated at less than minimum levels. Idle capacity in many branches of the manufacturing sector increased to 70%. It became impossible for millions of workers to support their families by earning paychecks in their own country. Unable to earn enough to support their families, many of them migrated to the United States to find family wage work.

A report adopted by Mexico's Senate on September 21, 2007 noted that Alan Greenspan gave Summers credit for the draconian interest rate measure and Greenspan wrote in his memoir:

That experience (the Mexican bail-out) formed a lasting bond between Rubin, Summers, and me ... Larry could be shrewd too: it was his idea to put such a high interest rate on the Mexico loans that the Mexicans felt compelled to pay us back early.

[Skeptic]

Larry Summers makes my stomach churn. But not because of his comments on women while he was at Harvard. For those of us fighting for economic justice on both sides of the border his appointment is frightening. But I have faith in Obama still...we'll see what happens.

Well, I hope Obama will disappoint you.

In reality "fighting for economic justice" usually means "socialized and controlled economy". Obama certainly made vague noises in that direction during the election season. Also, there is evidence that he was a socialist activist when in college -- I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you. But so far find no particular reason to believe either Obama's ardent fans, or his ardent detractors, in their conviction that he will turns the USA into a socialist paradise of the workers.

The real problem with Obama is that he is an unknown quantity. He has little experience, a short record. and there is much we do not know about his beliefs and views. He was elected due to general dissatisfaction with the Republicans, first, and to being the "sexier" candidate (young, handsome, Black, standing for "change", etc.) This is worrying, since neither reason is sufficient to qualify him to the job.

He may turn out to be incompetent, naive, or a socialist radical, and in general a big disappoinment -- like JFK, the last "sexy" and "Different" (Catholic) candidate, whose administration was rather lousy in many ways. But I certainly agree the opposite might also be the case: he might turn out to be a quick learner who is up to the job -- like Truman.

It is far too early to tell if Obama will succeed or fail. But so far, his appointment of someone who is all for the "evil Wall street capitalists" and opposes "economic justice" -- that is, someone who has a sane economic policy -- that is an encouraging sign. So is his team of economic experts in general.

[Francesca R]

Summers, while serving as under secretary of the Treasury in 1995, engineered the destruction of Mexico's economy by increasing interest rates to unmanageable levels—business and farm loans went from 11% to 56%, credit card rates from 7% to 61%, home loans from 5% to 75%, car loans from 7% to 91%. The result was massive human suffering and the forced migration of millions of economic refugees to the United States.That's odd, because my read of it is that Summers and Rubin persuaded Clinton to do the "right thing" for Mexico, and had a way of circumventing congress (which would have with little doubt voted down something as deeply unpopular as loaning billions of taxpayers' bucks to Mexico), and that because of their action Mexico's economy recovered and the US taxpaer was repaid.

I am sure it was done for foreign policy reasons above anything else. But I view it as one of Summers' finest hours.

Exactly what do you think would have happened if the US had stood aside?

[Gregoire]

Well, I hope Obama will disappoint you.

In reality "fighting for economic justice" usually means "socialized and controlled economy". Obama certainly made vague noises in that direction during the election season. Also, there is evidence that he was a socialist activist when in college -- I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you. But so far find no particular reason to believe either Obama's ardent fans, or his ardent detractors, in their conviction that he will turns the USA into a socialist paradise of the workers.


Wow, how refreshing to read true skepticism/critical thinking on the JREF politics board. :)

[Gregoire]

Larry Summers makes my stomach churn. But not because of his comments on women while he was at Harvard. For those of us fighting for economic justice on both sides of the border his appointment is frightening. But I have faith in Obama still...we'll see what happens.



Paupau, I know the much of the politics boards may be misleading with all the propaganda you run into, but the rest of the JREF forum emulates skepticism and critical thinking. Poorly defined words like "economic justice" (hey, who could be against that?) are best avoided.

[Gregoire]

It is far too early to tell if Obama will succeed or fail. But so far, his appointment of someone who is all for the "evil Wall street capitalists" and opposes "economic justice" -- that is, someone who has a sane economic policy -- that is an encouraging sign. So is his team of economic experts in general.

His appointments so far have given me a lot of hope. My main reason for believing he was not an extremist during the campaign was the advisors (like Summers) he hired. Now that he is actually appointing people to the government, he seems to me to be continuing this trend.

[mhaze]

NPR's Diane Rehm expressed incredulity that Obama would even consider ex Harvard President Summers for a cabinet positon because of his non politically correct comment that....Even in Daine's reply, she confirms his attributes, but never explains exactly what these "doubts" are about, or even if they are legitimate.

Summer's bigotry would disqualify only if he we up for a post in Repub administration.

[PauPau]

Obama is not an extremist. If anybody--from the left or the right--believed that Obama was going to govern from the left, they were fooling themselves. This was easy to do given the excitement leading up to the election. But it's time for a reality check.

I know why Obama's appointment of Summers is seen as a good thing and despite my stomach churning I'm going to give this a chance. But my point is that the Mexican Bailout was not a bailout of Mexico it was a bailout of foreign investors with Mexico paying huge interest rates back to the US keeping them further indebted to us and to the IMF and further damaging their economy. The ramifications are now seen in the form of immigration to this country and this type of foreign economic policy is concerning to me for many reasons.

So the left's stomach is churning at some of these appointments, mine included, but the economic team comes in with a wide range of experiences and their connection to the Hamilton Project mixed in will make it even more interesting. Or so I hope.

Much is yet to be seen. It's going to be interesting.