Q & A on The Venus Project

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6. Site address http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/faq-home.htm

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Edited for rules 4 and 6.

[CriticalThinking]

Please enjoy.

If your questions aren't answered, just ask. :)

[Smackety]

you wrote this all yourself?

[CriticalThinking]

I copy/pasted from the main site here:

http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/faq-home.htm

I was thinking that if people won't go to it, I'll bring it here.

[dtugg]

Why is this in conspiracy theories?

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Please enjoy.

If your questions aren't answered, just ask. :)

Full kudos for starting this thread CriticalThinking. :)

I think it's great to give projects like this a fair hearing and rather than write them off because they are outside the boundaries of the traditionally indoctrinated mindset I think its better, if we find flaws, to try and improve the proposal.

The current system is really not good. Most people on earth have a terrible standard of living and are losing out at the expense of those of us in the 'west' who have a bearable standard of living. but even we have to toil way beyond what we should in order to support this.

The only people who are really benefiting and are taking the lion's share are those at the very top of the pyramid.

With a change of mindset everyone can have much more for less work.

The only criticism of this thread is that it's in the wrong forum. It certainly shouldn't be in Conspiracy theories.

[CriticalThinking]

"Why is this in conspiracy theories?"

Because it's where most people come. :)

Edit: Scratch that. I have just noticed that most people come here for the 9/11 forum.

Can a mod please move this to thread to the religion and philosophy forum?

[Tin Foil Timothy]

"Why is this in conspiracy theories?"

Because it's where most people come. :)

Edit: Scratch that. I have just noticed that most people come here for the 9/11 forum.

Can a mod please move this to thread to the religion and philosophy forum?

No, it needs to go in the politics forum. This is NOTHING to do with religion and philosphy. It's to do with social structure and social management. IOW - Politics

[CriticalThinking]

No, it needs to go in the politics forum. This is NOTHING to do with religion and philosphy. It's to do with social structure and social management. IOW - Politics

Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions.

Not what the Venus Project is about.

I just really want it somewhere where many kinds of people can read it. It's really about all the aspects of life.

[leonAzul]

Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions.

Not what the Venus Project is about.

I just really want it somewhere where many kinds of people can read it. It's really about all the aspects of life.

Yeah, right.

You don't want to accept the responsibility of making your own decisions, nor do you want to be responsible for the survival nor the prevalence of your own kith and kin.

I can dig it.

It's a scam. Plain and uncomplicated.

Is it not so difficult to understand that all is blood runs red?

ETA

At least among us ;)

[Drudgewire]

Not sure what was going on in this thread but as an O&A pest it entertains the bejeezus out of me to see how much editing for civility was required. :D

[Giggywig]

A hippie commune for the conspiracy kooks? Go for it.

[shadron]

This form of society was explored a little by James P. Hogan in his novel Voyage from Yesteryear. In order to create such a society he created a situation where a piece of humanity is grown from digitized DNA plans by robots on a virgin planet, brought up with the requisite mindset from scratch (presumably the robots were given an AI capability and a goal, but with no explicit directions for how to accomplish it, so they invented a "Venus" approach). Its intriguing...one can understand the skepticism it usually encounters, as expressed by various posters above.

If only...

[Uncayimmy]

It's a scam. Plain and uncomplicated.

The first thing that struck me on the site was the online store you can use to spend $138 on a few DVDs and a book that tell you about how obsolete the monetary system is.

The "research center" really looks to be their home and their office (architects). It's currently for sale.

http://www.flalandsale.com/

[Eklund89]

This venus projekt. Correct me if im wrong but isnt it some kind of kommunism/anarchy?
Everyone has everything together and no one have to be less rich than somebody else. There are no government or police/military so no rules, as in an anarchy.

I have thought of the criminals. if everyone adapts to the system, there will be no mentally healthy person who would do a crime because they can get what they want without steeling. but the ones who is not mentally healthy? they will probably murder and so on anyways. what about them?

[1337m4n]

This venus projekt. Correct me if im wrong but isnt it some kind of kommunism/anarchy?


I could be mistaken but from the looks of things it appears to have the goal of scrapping money altogether and reverting to a barter economy. Of course they use the term "resource-based economy" but from the way they describe it, it seems to be the same thing as barter.

Unless they mean, keep the concept of money, but make it so that the official currency is a primary resource like gold or silicon, instead of paper reserve notes. The FAQ is written so poorly it's hard to tell what they mean.

[Francesca R]

Why is this in conspiracy theories?I am wondering why it is not (any more) . . .

Q: What is the foundation of this idea?

A: [ . . . ]Today, money is used to regulate the economy for the benefit of the few who control the financial wealth of nations. [ . . . ]Since that answer is not what "the few who control the financial wealth of nations" say they are doing, the starting premise of this idea is that there is a conspiracy.

One other thing:
Social problems result from scarcityWith no transferable medium of exchange, lots of things (like food, clothing and shelter) get a lot scarcer.

[shadron]

I am wondering why it is not (any more) . . .

Since that answer is not what "the few who control the financial wealth of nations" say they are doing, the starting premise of this idea is that there is a conspiracy.

One other thing:
With no transferable medium of exchange, lots of things (like food, clothing and shelter) get a lot scarcer.

You are absolutely right about that, Francesca. The premise of this system, from what I have been able to understand about it, is that financiers (sometimes left that nebulous and sometime particularized to banking families in Europe in the middle ages) developed this "economics of scarcity" in order to capitalize upon it, to be able to control and harness it to their own wealth and power. These people advocate an "economics of abundance" in which resources are abundantly available, and therefore there is no control of them required or desirable. Now the question is how one arranges that abundance; the only approach I've read about is in every person controlling his or her own energy source/consumption, and that involves either harnessing solar or wind, or some ultra-cheap mass source such as fusion. Just as civilization was made possible by agriculture and he techniques of city dwelling, likewise we could transition into this economics of abundance when energy becomes cheap enough. It's never been done, and they say this is so because of the greed of the money people to maintain their controlling place in society.

That's the thesis, as far as I understand it - all indeed based on the grandfather of all conspiracy theories. Is there a grain of truth in here that might be workable apart from the conspiracies? I can't tell. It is well known that the writer of the science fiction novel I cited above that tries to make a case for the system, James P Hogan, has embraced a bunch of woo-ish causes, such as Veliskovsky, and AIDS-isn't-real, and so on. Several other writers (Jerry Pournelle, L. Neil Smith, and Lee Correy aka G Harry Stein) have entertained aspects in their writings - it makes for good science fiction.

[dudalb]

The Venus Project has about as much change of working in the real world as a snowball in hell.
Even leaving out the fact it is based on the ultimate wack Conspiracy theory, the people behind it have a total misunderstanding of human nature.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

It's a scam. Plain and uncomplicated.

How come?

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

A hippie commune for the conspiracy kooks? Go for it.

Communes usually renounced to every technological advance. What the VP propose is that we should use science and technology instead of religions and political ideologies to give shape to a society. Very different.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Communes usually renounced to every technological advance. What the VP propose is that we should use science and technology instead of religions and political ideologies to give shape to a society. Very different.

How different from Technocracy?

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

How different from Technocracy?

Point is, the VP is not a hippie commune. And I don't know about them enough, but I would talk about a society in which EVERY member has to form part of the government at some stage of their lives, say from 30 to 33. No elections, no "democracy", no technocracy. Every people responsible for every other people.

[dudalb]

[quote]Point is, the VP is not a hippie commune. And I don't know about them enough, but I would talk about a society in which EVERY member has to form part of the government at some stage of their lives, say from 30 to 33. No elections, no "democracy", no technocracy. Every people responsible for every other people. [/quote}

I don't know what you are smoking but that it is some strong **** if you think the Venus Project has anything to do with a realistic, workable, from of government. It is just another well intentioned but hopelessly unrealistic utopian scheme.
And it is founded, like all Utopian schemes, on a total misread of basic human nature.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

I don't know what you are smoking but that it is some strong s--t if you think the Venus Project has anything to do with a realistic, workable, from of government. It is just another well intentioned but hopelessly unrealistic utopian scheme.
And it is founded, like all Utopian schemes, on a total misread of basic human nature.

Read again, I clearly said that I don't know their arguments enough, the idea (that's right, nothing more) about every individual having to be part of the government at some point, is mine. And you can read more in my thread about the ZM which is part of the VP (I believe). This might not be realistic in the current world, but what if we think in small self sufficient cities (maybe between 5,000 to 50,000 people). Utopic certainly, but unrealistic? All this needs in order to happen is enough people interested in the idea. Sure, getting them interested might be a challenge, but thats not the point here.

[leonAzul]

How come?


Is it not so difficult to understand that all that is blood runs red?

ETA

Plain and uncomplicated language.