If you get divorced, is she still your mum?

[The Atheist]

From the most inappropriately-named town on earth, Darwin*, comes the question:

If sex with your mother is worth six months in jail, why isn't sex with your son a crime?

link (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10542917)

"Consent was not an issue", according to the judge.

*It could be argued that the Darwin [town] experiment proves the devolution of species in confined areas.

[Madalch]

If sex with your mother is worth six months in jail, why isn't sex with your son a crime?

Obviously, because women don't do these things willingly- men want to have sex, women are the innocent victims.

[Cainkane1]

Not a good story. Not a good story at all.

[The Atheist]

Obviously, because women don't do these things willingly- men want to have sex, women are the innocent victims.

Yep, that's how I figured it.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Humph. Well - at least we know now why the offender, "can't get no women here."

...and he wore a condom? How is it that this maroon got the messages about safe sex but missed the ones about not boinking your Mum?

As for the Mum not being charged, I suspect that not many folks would think that a woman who needs a wheelchair to get around because of rheumatoid arthritis would much desire to be bounced around during sex, and probably couldn't do much about getting away from it or fighting off a nutcase boy.

She told her doctor about it, but not the police. I don't know if I'd turn my kid in for hurting me. I mean, it's not like the kid got her pregnant, and he... you know... DID wear that condom....

[Madalch]

As for the Mum not being charged, I suspect that not many folks would think that a woman who needs a wheelchair to get around because of rheumatoid arthritis would much desire to be bounced around during sex, and probably couldn't do much about getting away from it or fighting off a nutcase boy.

When I made my snarky comment above, I hadn't followed the link, and did not know about the revolting story.

Ick.

[The Atheist]

...and he wore a condom? How is it that this maroon got the messages about safe sex but missed the ones about not boinking your Mum?

More importantly, if he never got laid, why did he have a condom?

As for the Mum not being charged, I suspect that not many folks would think that a woman who needs a wheelchair to get around because of rheumatoid arthritis would much desire to be bounced around during sex, and probably couldn't do much about getting away from it or fighting off a nutcase boy.

Consent consists of saying "yes" or "no". Did she forget to say no? 17 minutes ought to have been long enough to tell him to get off, and she clearly didn't bother kicking him out or anything afterwards.

Strange stuff all round.

[gtc]

More importantly, if he never got laid, why did he have a condom?

Either wishful thinking or he was planning on tupping her. Of course, this being NT he might have just been keeping it as an emergency water container (they have been known to be used in the outback for those purposes).

[Miss_Kitt]

First of all: Yuuuuuuuck!

Now, on to reply to a few questions and comments above.

From the jerk's comment that he "[couldn't] get any women around here" it sounds as though he has previously been in an area with desperate and/or drunken women, so carrying a condom might be habitual.

Though the story does not mention it, I suspect Mummy might have been blitzed, too. That would explain the rather bizarre behavior in response to the assault. Consent is not an issue because she was too blotto to much care? I don't know why else a judge would decide that. On the other hand, perhaps she was too shocked and frightened by the situation to say anything.

All in all, a whole new low in human behavior.

One thing I don't understand is why the thread is titled as it is. The judge seems to think that the two had separated at such a young age that the male had no psycho-emotional connection to the woman as his mother, which implies that it had been most of his lifetime. The issue, then, is not divorce, but rather biological parentage versus family-unit connection.

It's like the amazing (but sadly, real) case of the brother and sister who were each adopted-out as babies, then as adults met and fell in love. When records showed that they were siblings, they were denied the chance to marry. (IIRC, this was in England, but I read about it quite some time ago.) Again, while consanguity was true, the psychological issue of incest was absent.

I find the situation described in the article revolting and tragic. I must add, however, that I think the issue of emotional "family" is perhaps even more important to issues of incest. Among family members--especially of separate generations--there is no ability for informed consent to occur. The older relative has too much power, knowledge, and control over the younger. This is why the law recognizes a step-parent's actions as being incest, even though there is no blood relationship.


All done thinking about this now, MK

[Rasmus]

Consent consists of saying "yes" or "no". Did she forget to say no? 17 minutes ought to have been long enough to tell him to get off, and she clearly didn't bother kicking him out or anything afterwards.

Strange stuff all round.

Excuse me, but consent consist of saying "yes". Period.

I haven't been raped in my life, but I am certain it is a scary, traumatizing and dangerous situation. It's pretty low to blame someone for not politely pointing out that they didn't consent prior to being raped.

Also, the article only says that the issue of consent was not part of the charges. That doesn't tell us a thing about what the woman may or may not have said.

Since she didn't tell the police about the incident, it might just be that she didn't talk about that, either?

[rjh01]

I think it is a matter of what they can convict the man of, rather than what he is guilty of.

[lionking]

Another good reason for my lack of desire to go to the only part of Australia I have never been before. I am sure that there would be a large number of Territorians saying "but he was drunk......"

[Silly Green Monkey]

Bizarre behavior? Try shock. A woman who can't get around without a wheelchair, who lives her days in pain, and you think her running and hiding in her room as soon as the assault is over is bizarre?

And TA, do you really think 'no' is a magic word that will stop any assault? Just saying it will make anyone intent on hurting you back off and say "Oh, sorry"?

[Careyp74]

More importantly, if he never got laid, why did he have a condom?


I had a condom for a couple of years before I got laid. After I got laid I didn't have a condom anymore, had to get another one from my brother's drawer. Yes, I know i was lucky.... in more ways than one.

[The Atheist]

Either wishful thinking or he was planning on tupping her. Of course, this being NT he might have just been keeping it as an emergency water container (they have been known to be used in the outback for those purposes).

I guess flavoured ones would be ok...

One thing I don't understand is why the thread is titled as it is.

Because all the other ones I came up with would have been deleted.

Excuse me, but consent consist of saying "yes". Period.

So, if she's not having a period, it's ok?

Please, don't be a smart-arse, there's only enough room in the thread for one and I was here first.

I haven't been raped in my life, but I am certain it is a scary, traumatizing and dangerous situation. It's pretty low to blame someone for not politely pointing out that they didn't consent prior to being raped.

Who blamed her?

And TA, do you really think 'no' is a magic word that will stop any assault? Just saying it will make anyone intent on hurting you back off and say "Oh, sorry"?

No, I don't think it would have stopped the assault, but I'm pretty confident that if she'd bothered to suggest that she didn't actually want her son to screw her, she could have pointed out that she was too shocked to say anything at the time. Consent doesn't have to be verbally withheld to constitute rape.

I had a condom for a couple of years before I got laid. After I got laid I didn't have a condom anymore, had to get another one from my brother's drawer. Yes, I know i was lucky.... in more ways than one.

:bgrin:

[applecorped]

Nominated













for the asshat of the year award.

[plumjam]

"He is a talented athlete but his ability as a sportsman and employment opportunities have been affected by his problems with drugs and alcohol,"
So this is what Andrew Symonds and his Ma get up to when he says he's 'gone fishing'.
(and no, I wouldn't say that to his face)

[The Atheist]

So this is what Andrew Symonds and his Ma get up to when he says he's 'gone fishing'.
(and no, I wouldn't say that to his face)

Harbajan Singh sure as hell would. Maybe I should e mail him a link....

[Magenta]

No, I don't think it would have stopped the assault, but I'm pretty confident that if she'd bothered to suggest that she didn't actually want her son to screw her, she could have pointed out that she was too shocked to say anything at the time. Consent doesn't have to be verbally withheld to constitute rape.


The son wasn't charged with rape but with incest, and consent is not a defence to a charge of incest.

[The Atheist]

The son wasn't charged with rape but with incest, and consent is not a defence to a charge of incest.

Yes, but if the mother had denied consent, then it would be incestual rape. The two are different crimes.

Personally, as repulsive as it is, I'd be happy for consensual incest between grown-ups not to be any kind of crime.

[Rasmus]

Yes, but if the mother had denied consent, then it would be incestual rape. The two are different crimes.

Again, nobody has to deny consent. Not giving it ought to be enough.

Personally, as repulsive as it is, I'd be happy for consensual incest between grown-ups not to be any kind of crime.

Then what's your problem? Whatever the reasons of the mother may have been to not press charges, who are we to claim we'd know better?

[The Atheist]

Again, nobody has to deny consent. Not giving it ought to be enough.

Yep, which suggests to me that she may have, in fact, consented.

Then what's your problem? Whatever the reasons of the mother may have been to not press charges, who are we to claim we'd know better?

I don't have a problem. I find it interesting & bizarre, but not problematical at all.

[linusrichard]

I think it is a matter of what they can convict the man of, rather than what he is guilty of.

I think this is exactly it. The guy apparently raped his mom. It might not make sense to charge him with rape, because then you have to prove the question of non-consent, and you may end up being unable to prove it at trial.

[Magenta]

Yes, but if the mother had denied consent, then it would be incestual rape. The two are different crimes.

I'm not sure that there is such an offence (incestual rape) in NT law. It is likely that consensual and non-consensual incest are charged under the same law. As linusrichard pointed out, a charge of incest gives the prosecution fewer elements to prove.

To speculate for a moment, it may be that the son was given the option of pleading guilty to a charge of incest or taking his chances with a trial for sexual assault. As he had expressed "extreme remorse" about something he'd done while drunk, it seems reasonable to think he might want to spare his mother (and himself, for that matter) further shame and embarrassment. A timely plea of guilty would also be taken into account when it comes to length of sentence.

[The Atheist]

To speculate for a moment, it may be that the son was given the option of pleading guilty to a charge of incest or taking his chances with a trial for sexual assault. As he had expressed "extreme remorse" about something he'd done while drunk, it seems reasonable to think he might want to spare his mother (and himself, for that matter) further shame and embarrassment. A timely plea of guilty would also be taken into account when it comes to length of sentence.

Yeah, that's probably a very good point. Fast justice and with luck the bloke will join and work with an appropriate program.