Water conservation in the home

[CrikeyBobs]

More of an environment issue than a social issue but this place seemed the best match.

Do you/how do you conserve water or reduce your water usage? Please tick all that apply to you.

No particular reason for the poll, other than curiosity.

[CrikeyBobs]

As well as reusing shower water I also attempt to reduce the amount of water I use while taking a shower. I have a 'fun' system of quantifying my usage:

(usage in litres)
> 15+ luxury
> 12-15 normal
> 9-12 frugal
< 9 ultrafrugal

[Skeptic Guy]

You're going to get such crap for not having a Planet X option.

We try not to waste and in the summer don't go all out on watering the lawn, but we really don't reuse water.

[roger]

We are not allowed to conserve water. Really! The water that falls on my roof belongs to the people downstream from me - if I capture it I am stealing from them. I will be fined if I collect water and get caught.

Yes, the policy is really that insane. It's okay for the person downstream to take whatever water happens upon his property, but not me.

[applecorped]

I use a stillsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomics_(Dune)#Stillsuit

[quarky]

water use in most of the U.S. is very retarded. Its one of the easiest problems to improve upon, imho.

We could cut it in half tommorow, without sacrificing squat.

[applecorped]

I would squat less if I had less water.

[CrikeyBobs]

You're going to get such crap for not having a Planet X option.

Planet X pseudo choice is so passé. We should make it more relevant to today's on-the-go, sassy, bright young things. How about we have a Cowboy Neale option instead? That would be keen.

I use a stillsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomics_(Dune)#Stillsuit

I'm currently reading God Emperor of Dune. hmmm, maybe that's why I posted the poll (checks nose plug).

[Agatha]

We have a water meter, hippos in the toilet cistern, save rainwater for the garden, don't leave taps running while we brush teeth, take short showers most of the time rather than baths. None of it impacts in a negative way on our lifestyle.

[Darth Rotor]

More of an environment issue than a social issue but this place seemed the best match.

Do you/how do you conserve water or reduce your water usage? Please tick all that apply to you.

No particular reason for the poll, other than curiosity.
Short showers.
Pee in the back yard. (Me -- my wife and kids insist on using the toilet.)
Only run full loads on washing machine or dishwasher.
Water lawn only in evening or morning, though we rarely need to do that anyway.

I'd like to re use the rinse water from the washing machine, but I admit I've been too lazy to run the valve and pipes from inside the house to outside the house into a largish rain barrel. It's doable, but it's a matter of actually doing it.

DR

[Steve]

I checked "other ways" so I'd better explain.
We have installed ULF (ultra low flush) toilets and flow restrictors on our shower heads and sink faucets. I never water lawns - brown is a fine color for summer lawns and you don't have to mow.
Water "shortages" are rare in this area. There is usually more than enough stored in the mountain reservoirs. The problem is distribution. The infrastructure has not kept pace with the rapid population growth, especially in the outlying suburbs, and the pipe system is sometimes not able to carry the peak volumes.
Our main reason for water conservation is our reliance on a septic system. Minimizing flows to the tank and drainage field helps reduce maintenance and extend its life.

[Tailgater]

One of the worst places I've seen wasting water is downtown Chicago and the surrounding areas. I went to visit my cousin one hot summer and half her neighbors were running sprinklers all day long. I made the comment that they must spend alot for water. Nope. They don't pay for freaking water in Chicago!!! I've seen people leave running hoses laying on the sidewalk. My in-laws left a leaky toilet running water and flushing itself every hour because it wasn't costing them anything. They were just waiting for the landlord to fix it. It's mind-boggling.

My water bill is steep if I don't conserve, so we do our best with a family of 5.

[Skeptic Guy]

I use a stillsuit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomics_(Dune)#Stillsuit

You're such a SF geek! I love it.

[grunion]

One of the worst places I've seen wasting water is downtown Chicago and the surrounding areas. I went to visit my cousin one hot summer and half her neighbors were running sprinklers all day long. I made the comment that they must spend alot for water. Nope. They don't pay for freaking water in Chicago!!! I've seen people leave running hoses laying on the sidewalk. My in-laws left a leaky toilet running water and flushing itself every hour because it wasn't costing them anything. They were just waiting for the landlord to fix it. It's mind-boggling.

My water bill is steep if I don't conserve, so we do our best with a family of 5.If you think Chicagoans waste water, I wonder if you have ever been to Las Vegas. Of all the sinnin' going on there, I think the biggest is the billion gallon water jet displays in from of nearly every strip hotel that run 24 hours on 115 degree days. And it is in the middle of the biggest desert in North America, with no natural water sources for hundreds of miles. Boggles my mind every time I go there.

[gumboot]

Water is metered and we pay for it.

I don't do anything overly fantastic to conserve water, but I try not to be wasteful. We don't have a bath, I fill the basin to shave (when I say "fill", I mean I put a little water in rather than leaving the tap running), short showers (dad's military, been having short showers all my life anyway) and adjust washing machine water levels depending on load.

We don't have a garden so no watering goes on there.

We do have a leaky kitchen sink plug which has caused some water wastefulness, but I'm having trouble finding a replacement because it's an odd size. I don't really use water all that much.

[NewtonTrino]

- Have water conserving appliances (dishwasher, laundry etc)
- rarely take baths
- low flow shower heads
- low water usdage toilets
- don't water the lawn (although my retarded neighbourbood association insists on watering the common area)

Basically don't use that much water. We also conserve electricity. Mainly we do this because my woman works for a utility and likes to set a good example of stewardship.

[Uncayimmy]

water use in most of the U.S. is very retarded. Its one of the easiest problems to improve upon, imho.

We could cut it in half tommorow, without sacrificing squat.

What would be the point or benefit? Serious question.

[gumboot]

What would be the point or benefit? Serious question.


It would probably depend on a lot of factors, and would vary locally. Urban centres that draw their water from an underground water table find themselves sinking and causing quite an abundance of problems. In drier climates you can run out of water completely.

Even in relatively water-rich climates it can have problems such as draining water from the ecosystem (rivers, etc) or drawing away water that could be used for hydroelectric generation.

[rjh01]

I have a shower head that does not use much water. I also follow the water restrictions that we have.

I think one measure that we should have to conserve water is to make it expensive to use. Then people will work out how to conserve water. Either that or make it worthwhile to have expensive options for getting water.

[JoeyDonuts]

I waste water quite willingly. Sometimes my "two-sies" are multiple flush jobs, especially after I eat Indian or Korean food.

[Blue Mountain]

My water usage is essentially unmetered, given that I live in a large condominium complex and water is part of the common element fees. The city, though, does charge for water and sewer usage.

I conserve some water by adopting a policy of water having to do "work" between the time it comes out of the tap and goes down the drain. By "work" I mean the water has to be used for rinsing, cleaning, or some other use before I dispose of it. Therefore if I run a tap for a few seconds to get hotter or colder water, the flow is directed into a pot so the water can be captured for later use. I don't run a tap while shaving or while brushing teeth--I could never understand why people would do that.

I only boil as much water as I need: if I'm making a cup of tea, I'll boil a cup of water in an electric kettle. Most people I know seem to fill a kettle and put it on the stove, wasting a large amount of energy bringing four or five litres of water to a boil when they end up using only part of it. Although I guess it could be argued the energy goes into heating the kitchen as the water cools down.

But for all that I save, I throw away extravagantly by taking nice long baths ...

[quarky]

What would be the point or benefit? Serious question.

really?

elaborate?

[Uncayimmy]

Originally Posted by UncaYimmy View Post
What would be the point or benefit? Serious question.

really?

elaborate?

How much more clear can I get than asking, "What is the benefit of conserving water?"

* The stuff falls out of the sky.
* It covers a majority of the planet.
* We really only "borrow" water as opposed to something like gasoline where we make it undergo chemical changes and suck the energy out of it so it can't be used again.
* Most of the water goes into the sewage system where it is treated and put back into the local environment.

Sure, if there's an immediate shortage in your area, by all means conserve. But this is a general question that seems to assume that everyone should always be conserving water. Why?

[Skeptic Guy]

For a bunch of reasons, potable water is growing more scarce all over the globe. It's not all about how much falls from the sky. I am not sure that conserving here in NJ is going to help someone on the other side of the world that has a shortage of water, but it can't hurt and will certainly help my bottom-line.

Here's some information that might help:

http://whyfiles.org/131fresh_water/index.html

[Tiktaalik]

I am not allowed to collect rainwater. My folks are not allowed to collect rainwater OR use gray water in the garden, etc.

However:

I bought an EnergyStar washer (and dryer).
I don't own a dishwasher at all.
I only do full loads in the washer.
I don't flush every time.
I don't take long showers every day.
I don't leave the tap running while I'm brushing my teeth, etc.

To offset that, however, I am required under the terms of my lease to maintain my lawn (it even specifies how long the grass may be!). I try not to waste water there by using timers that bring the sprinklers on at 4:00 a.m and they are off by 8:00 a.m.

[ponderingturtle]

We are not allowed to conserve water. Really! The water that falls on my roof belongs to the people downstream from me - if I capture it I am stealing from them. I will be fined if I collect water and get caught.

Yes, the policy is really that insane. It's okay for the person downstream to take whatever water happens upon his property, but not me.

So anyone who has a stream passing through their property can use it all?

[quarky]

How much more clear can I get than asking, "What is the benefit of conserving water?"

* The stuff falls out of the sky.
* It covers a majority of the planet.
* We really only "borrow" water as opposed to something like gasoline where we make it undergo chemical changes and suck the energy out of it so it can't be used again.
* Most of the water goes into the sewage system where it is treated and put back into the local environment.

Sure, if there's an immediate shortage in your area, by all means conserve. But this is a general question that seems to assume that everyone should always be conserving water. Why?



To some extent, you are correct. yet there is normally a cost in cleaning our crap out of the water. Plus, in most areas of dense population, aquifers are drained faster than they can be recharged.

In my own case, we run on rain water that is gravity fed through our house.
If we have plenty in our cisterns, there is no disadvantage in letting it run through our sink. It is merely re-routing the rain. If we were paying to pump it, that alone would be reason to conserve.

[WildCat]

One of the worst places I've seen wasting water is downtown Chicago and the surrounding areas. I went to visit my cousin one hot summer and half her neighbors were running sprinklers all day long. I made the comment that they must spend alot for water. Nope. They don't pay for freaking water in Chicago!!! I've seen people leave running hoses laying on the sidewalk. My in-laws left a leaky toilet running water and flushing itself every hour because it wasn't costing them anything. They were just waiting for the landlord to fix it. It's mind-boggling.

My water bill is steep if I don't conserve, so we do our best with a family of 5.
Haha, I checked the first option. I make no effort at all to conserve water. Lake Michigan isn't drying up, my garden never goes thirsty.

We do pay for water here, but many of us (myself included) do not have a water meter, it's a flat fee. So the more you use the cheaper it is per gallon. :p

[PhantomWolf]

We are not allowed to conserve water. Really! The water that falls on my roof belongs to the people downstream from me - if I capture it I am stealing from them. I will be fined if I collect water and get caught.

Yes, the policy is really that insane. It's okay for the person downstream to take whatever water happens upon his property, but not me.

:jaw-dropp Okay.... That is freaking insane!!

[Uncayimmy]

Originally Posted by roger View Post
We are not allowed to conserve water. Really! The water that falls on my roof belongs to the people downstream from me - if I capture it I am stealing from them. I will be fined if I collect water and get caught.

Yes, the policy is really that insane. It's okay for the person downstream to take whatever water happens upon his property, but not me.

:jaw-dropp Okay.... That is freaking insane!!

It's not insane. Read this for more information:
http://water.state.co.us/pubs/policies/waterharvesting.pdf

Basically, Colorado gives priority to those who used it first. If we build a community around a small lake that is fed by several creeks, people can't come by later and use up all the water in the creeks before it reaches our lake. By extension those people in the watershed need to let nature take its course.

I'm sure reasonable people will disagree as to what the best policy is, but I don't think it's insane by any means.

And as for the comments about using graywater, there are some health issues to consider, especially with community wells. The same link covers it.

[ponderingturtle]

:jaw-dropp Okay.... That is freaking insane!!

No. Peoples rights to water create effects like the Colorado river no longer reaches the ocean, it all gets used up, and if people use it upstream, it is not there for those who would use it down stream.

[JimBenArm]

I checked "other". We put in low-flow faucets in the house, and the low-volume toilets, replacing the old ones. We have metered usage, but the prices are fairly low, and unless the Missouri River were to suddenly go dry, I don't think we're in any danger of shortages here. But that's no reason to waste resources, and it just adds to the strain on the wastewater facilities.

[WildCat]

I checked "other". We put in low-flow faucets in the house, and the low-volume toilets, replacing the old ones. We have metered usage, but the prices are fairly low, and unless the Missouri River were to suddenly go dry, I don't think we're in any danger of shortages here. But that's no reason to waste resources, and it just adds to the strain on the wastewater facilities.
Heh! We have the biggest **** mines in the world! http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.763085,-87.847924&spn=0.025032,0.038452&t=h&z=15

Booyah!

[Kestrel]

I checked "other". We put in low-flow faucets in the house, and the low-volume toilets, replacing the old ones. We have metered usage, but the prices are fairly low, and unless the Missouri River were to suddenly go dry, I don't think we're in any danger of shortages here. But that's no reason to waste resources, and it just adds to the strain on the wastewater facilities.

I flush so that downstream users like you don't run dry.

[PhantomWolf]

No. Peoples rights to water create effects like the Colorado river no longer reaches the ocean, it all gets used up, and if people use it upstream, it is not there for those who would use it down stream.

But we're not talking about water in the river, we're talking about water on a roof.

[ponderingturtle]

But we're not talking about water in the river, we're talking about water on a roof.

The water in the river has to come from somewhere. It all fell on someone else's property. It all belongs to them then right?

[Beerina]

You're going to get such crap for not having a Planet X option.

We try not to waste and in the summer don't go all out on watering the lawn, but we really don't reuse water.

You can pick all that apply, not just one. So "Planet X" is no choices.

[Almo]

We don't own our place, so we can't do stuff like install low-water flush toilet etc. But we're reasonably careful with water use. Full loads in dishwasher/laundry machine. Short showers (well, me anyway).

When we DO own our own place, we'll definitely be doing more about this.

[Beerina]

Pee in the back yard. (Me -- my wife and kids insist on using the toilet.)

DR



I wonder why you like to go in the back yard to...oh.



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_23174926df18b0e67.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14324)







Ahh, I better check Shemp's house. Hmmm...just as I thought.


I think I'll go out back for a wee, honey!

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_23174926df563d320.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14325)






Zzzzzzzippppppppppp!


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_23174926e028f0c95.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14327)

[Cuddles]

For a bunch of reasons, potable water is growing more scarce all over the globe.

Water conservation is something that tends to annoy me. Sure, there are lots of places where it's not just a good idea, but absolutely vital to long term survival in the area. This is especially true in desert areas where water is taken from underground aquifers, and includes places like most of southern USA. However, unlike things like fossil fuels, it just isn't a global issue. The fact that some people in Africa need to conserve water has absolutely no bearing on whether I need to.

I have no real argument against conserving water. As you say, there's no harm in doing so, although for people who pay a flat rate there's really no benefit either. The problem is that it is made out to be a major environmental concern in line with energy conservation, acid rain and so on, when in reality the main problem we have here is that people keep being forced out of their homes because there's too much of the damn stuff.

[quarky]

For people that pay a 'flat rate', its true; there are no economic incentives to conserve.

Yet, there are other incentives besides economic ones.
Just because the heat is included in the rent, in some instances, is no reason to run it with open windows, while you're away on vacation.

Look at the popularity of bottled water. used to be, tap water was good enough to drink.
(Still is, in many zones)

If i was paying for water, and had to also buy drinking water, I'd want that cost removed from my water bill. Drinkable water used to be part of the deal.

Side note:

Why haven't the U.S. suburbs embraced the urinal?
We're Ok with it in public places, but its never a feature in a modern home.

(hence, concerned males pee in the sink)

((the babes hate that))

[WildCat]

Why haven't the U.S. suburbs embraced the urinal?
We're Ok with it in public places, but its never a feature in a modern home.
I remodeled my bathroom a few years ago, no room for a urinal but I wanted one! If I ever make a 2nd bathroom in the basement it will definitely have a urinal.

[PhantomWolf]

The water in the river has to come from somewhere. It all fell on someone else's property. It all belongs to them then right?

Not all of the rain that goes into a river falls on someone's property, some falls on the river, most comes from mountains and terrain which is "owned" by the Government themselves. But not all the rain that falls onto a property can be collected either, we're just talking the stuff that falls on the roof of a building, and unless the building coveres the entire property... Add to that the fact that not all water falling onto a property will go into a river anyway. Much is used in the immediate area taken out of the soil by plants and creatures. Some will add to the water table, and for the most part only the excess will act as run off.

The issues with rivers running low on water don't come from people collecting and using small amounts of rain water from their roofs, but with too many users taking water directly from the river and not returning it.

[Jeff Corey]

I remodeled my bathroom a few years ago, no room for a urinal but I wanted one! If I ever make a 2nd bathroom in the basement it will definitely have a urinal.

You don't have a sink?

[Travis]

When my niece moved into her current house she was told she had to abide by the Homeowners Association and keep her landscape nice and kept up. She did this but it was a fairly lush landscape so it took a lot of water. She then got a warning from the water utility stating she was risking a fine for too much water use (most homes in Cali are metered) so she stopped watering and got fined by the Homeowners Association. So this past spring she had the landscaping ripped out and replaced with low water, drought resistant local plants. I thought it looked nice but she got fined again by the Homeowners Association because they wanted only lush green landscaping.

I filed that experience away as yet more evidence no one should ever live anywhere where there is a Homeowners Association. Fascist ****s!

[WildCat]

When my niece moved into her current house she was told she had to abide by the Homeowners Association and keep her landscape nice and kept up. She did this but it was a fairly lush landscape so it took a lot of water. She then got a warning from the water utility stating she was risking a fine for too much water use (most homes in Cali are metered) so she stopped watering and got fined by the Homeowners Association. So this past spring she had the landscaping ripped out and replaced with low water, drought resistant local plants. I thought it looked nice but she got fined again by the Homeowners Association because they wanted only lush green landscaping.

I filed that experience away as yet more evidence no one should ever live anywhere where there is a Homeowners Association. Fascist ****s!
35 years ago my dad turned off the water to our house, cut the pipe in front of the meter and put a T fitting there. Then he covered up this work by pouring concrete over it. One branch goes to the meter and the inside of the house, the other stays unmetered and services the outside taps. :boxedin:

I think he did this so he could fill our pool for free, but the pool's been gone for over 20 years. He's just cheap I guess.

[Travis]

35 years ago my dad turned off the water to our house, cut the pipe in front of the meter and put a T fitting there. Then he covered up this work by pouring concrete over it. One branch goes to the meter and the inside of the house, the other stays unmetered and services the outside taps. :boxedin:

I think he did this so he could fill our pool for free, but the pool's been gone for over 20 years. He's just cheap I guess.

That's a huge fine if it gets discovered......at least around here it would be.

[WildCat]

That's a huge fine if it gets discovered......at least around here it would be.
Oh, I'm sure the city wouldn't be amused if they found out. But it's been 35 years or so, I think the odds are pretty low.

[ponderingturtle]

Not all of the rain that goes into a river falls on someone's property, some falls on the river, most comes from mountains and terrain which is "owned" by the Government themselves. But not all the rain that falls onto a property can be collected either, we're just talking the stuff that falls on the roof of a building, and unless the building coveres the entire property... Add to that the fact that not all water falling onto a property will go into a river anyway. Much is used in the immediate area taken out of the soil by plants and creatures. Some will add to the water table, and for the most part only the excess will act as run off.


Why does it matter if the rain falls on the roof or anywhere else, it fell on your property you own it right?

I would like to see your evidence that in most rivers the vast majority of water in them fell on government land.

[Jeff Corey]

When my niece moved into her current house she was told she had to abide by the Homeowners Association and keep her landscape nice and kept up. She did this but it was a fairly lush landscape so it took a lot of water. She then got a warning from the water utility stating she was risking a fine for too much water use (most homes in Cali are metered) so she stopped watering and got fined by the Homeowners Association. So this past spring she had the landscaping ripped out and replaced with low water, drought resistant local plants. I thought it looked nice but she got fined again by the Homeowners Association because they wanted only lush green landscaping.

I filed that experience away as yet more evidence no one should ever live anywhere where there is a Homeowners Association. Fascist ****s!

Agreed. I have been planting a lot of perennials and only water them when first getting established. Lawns don't get watered.
I have one neighbor whose automatic sprinkler system routinely waters the road in front and goes on during rain storms.
All afternoon, I've been trying to fix a leak in my shower faucet. I've done it on the hot water faucet about every four years with faucet wrenches similar to this, but separate units.http://www.gunk.com/product_images/SM_182.JPG .
The ones I have don't fit one of the nuts on the cold water faucet, but do on the hot. The 29/32" is too big and the 27/32" is too small. No local plumbing store carries a 7/8" (28/32) open 6 point box wrench. Various shims on the inside of the 29/32 tool did not work.
I guess my next step is to check auto supply stores for a 6" deep 7/8" spark plug puller.
Any other suggestions will be appreciated.

Save the water.

[WildCat]

Agreed. I have been planting a lot of perennials and only water them when first getting established. Lawns don't get watered.
I have one neighbor whose automatic sprinkler system routinely waters the road in front and goes on during rain storms.
All afternoon, I've been trying to fix a leak in my shower faucet. I've done it on the hot water faucet about every four years with faucet wrenches similar to this, but separate units.http://www.gunk.com/product_images/SM_182.JPG .
The ones I have don't fit one of the nuts on the cold water faucet, but do on the hot. The 29/32" is too big and the 27/32" is too small. No local plumbing store carries a 7/8" (28/32) open 6 point box wrench. Various shims on the inside of the 29/32 tool did not work.
I guess my next step is to check auto supply stores for a 6" deep 7/8" spark plug puller.
Any other suggestions will be appreciated.

Save the water.
Are you trying to pull out the stem? I don't think I've ever seen one that's 6" deep.

[PhantomWolf]

Why does it matter if the rain falls on the roof or anywhere else, it fell on your property you own it right?

Because when it comes to collection of water, the roof is the obvious focal point. Personally I don't believe that anyone has ownership of rain drops.

I would like to see your evidence that in most rivers the vast majority of water in them fell on government land.

Well I could be wrong, but aren't the Rockys more or less a national park under ownership of the Government?

[Dan O.]

On planet X, all the water is recycled. Oh, wait. That happens here. Is this planet X?


The prohibition of rain barrels in Colorado is bizarre. Not only should they be allowed, they should be required. The land itself had a preexisting entitlement to first use of the rain water that fell on it long before settlers built the first structures here. Building any structure denies the land of some ability to store water. The land owners should be required to compensate by capturing excess runoff and delivering it to the remaining land at a time when it can be absorbed.

[Jeff Corey]

Are you trying to pull out the stem? I don't think I've ever seen one that's 6" deep.

Yes. I just measured it and it's 4.5 inches deep. The tools I have are 4", but they are hollow, so that's not a problem on the side that they fit.
One of these would work if it was 7/8" diameter.
http://www.carparts.com/wcsstore/carparts/images/imagecache/G_27960G_CL_1.jpg

[ponderingturtle]

Because when it comes to collection of water, the roof is the obvious focal point. Personally I don't believe that anyone has ownership of rain drops.

So when does the water become property?


Well I could be wrong, but aren't the Rockys more or less a national park under ownership of the Government?


And that does not cover most rivers either. Look at the Green Mountains, it was all farmland there 100 years ago, and most of it is still in private hands.

[Nogbad]

I live in Scotland - conserving water would be insane. I pay a flat charge per annum for the upkeep of the pipes, filtration and sewerage treatment. I think the biggest problem we have is the constant bloody rain and the maintenance of the drains :(

[PhantomWolf]

So when does the water become property?

When you pay for it, otherwise you are merely loaning it. I don't believe in the idea of water being property. Water in a river should "belong" to everyone and be regulated by the State as to who can access and how much they can access with rights that are reviewed periodically. Wells, depending on what they access would be based on either the ownership of the above property, or if they access an underground aquafir or river, similar usage rights as for rivers. I'd also run on a system of putting back much (at least 90%) of what you take, but hey, I'd also put in place that you had to replace the water from a river upstream of where you collect it too.

And that does not cover most rivers either. Look at the Green Mountains, it was all farmland there 100 years ago, and most of it is still in private hands.

Well I have to admit I an not at all familiar with the geography of Colorado, but looking at maps, the headwaters of many of the rivers seems to be in the mountainous areas and in several national parks.

[Dan O.]

I think Colorado should be given an award for having the stupidest idea for water conservation. Can any other state top the "Big Straw" proposal?

[richardm]

I live in Scotland - conserving water would be insane.

Yes indeed. I have so much water that I've taken to burning it to keep warm.

[GreyICE]

For people that pay a 'flat rate', its true; there are no economic incentives to conserve.

Just a minute here. Do you heat your water? I bet you do. Do you use thermal pump solar, or are you paying for the heat? I bet you're paying. Do you suppose it is cheaper to heat a 1.8 GPM showerhead than a 2.5 or *shudder* a 5? Do you suppose it's easier to heat water on a 1.5 GPM lavatory or an 0.5?

It's a LOT of energy too.

[Soapy Sam]

What Nogbad said.


Richard- you'll find it burns better if you freeze it first.