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View Full Version : "Peace Movement" or "Weary Laziness"?


Skeptic
3rd November 2003, 10:25 AM
Those who are not advocating the USA should do the "rational" thing and run away (in Iraq and everywhere else there's trouble) call themselves the "peace movement". I think this is a serious misuse of both words. I am not concerned here with whether their recommendations, in addition to being for "peace", are also cowardly, pathetic, and unwise. I think they are... but that's another issue. The problem here is that they seem not to understand what either "pacifism" and "movement" really mean.

Let's start with "peace" and "pacifism". What is pacificism? It is the declaration that you will not use violence against fellow humans. It is, I think, an insane policy, but it requires energy and determination. The poster boys for pacifism were St. Francis of Assizi, and perhaps Walt Whitman; they were, whatever else you say about them, determined people who nothing could discourage or tire.

Let us move to "movement". It is precisely the energy, the ACTIVITY involved, which is why pacifism can be called a "movement" when lead by the likes of St. Francis or Whitman: a "movement" means (ideally) a group of people with a real conviction who had definite goals. The goals can be evil--as in the nazi movement, for instance--but it is, indeed, moving. It is an active, not a passive, sort of thing. If anything, the more SEEMINGLY passive a real movement's goals are, the more determination it requires. Anybody can join a movement which claims (like the nazis) that they are wonderful and superior to all others, but to die as a martyr for pacifism (or christianity) instead of breaking your vows of non-violence or renouncing your fate requires steely determination and single-mindedness.

So much for what a real "peace movement" would look like. But could anything be farther than THAT than what we see in the current so-called "anti-war movement"?

What we see from the "anti-war movement" is NOT pacificism. It is not even any sort of MOVEMENT, in the real sense of the word. There is no real determination, no real energy, no real independent thought, no real goals, in the whole thing. It is merely following the path of (momentary) least resistence, intellectualy, politically, and morally. It has no positive plan, most of the time, beyond vague hand-waving. All it does is have a stimulus-response reply to whatever is the latest thing in the news at the moment: the newspapers said the economy is hurting, so let's smear Bush. An American chopper was downed in Iraq, so let's run away.

The movement's "philosophy" is encapsulated in the popular bumper sticker, "anyone but Bush in 2004". The one thing the owners of these bumper stickers know is that they are sick of Bush. The one thing they are for is--you guessed it--following the path of least resistance and immediate satisfaction, and "getting rid of Bush". To replace him with WHO? To pursue policies different than his in WHAT WAY? For an America different from Bush's HOW? No answer. That doesn't matter; what matter is merely that Bush annoys them, so the "most important thing" is to remove him.

This is not a movement. It does not have any convictions beyound "I'm sick of this". It does not have any alternative suggestion except for "let's get rid of X". It does not have a worldview beyound "I don't like it". It is merely a case of WEARINESS AND SHORT SIGHTEDNESS: war weariness, economic weariness, intellectual weariness, leading to the incredibly short-sided "stimulus-reponse" reactions: let's just get rid of Bush, and everything will be fine. Let's just run away from Iraq, and things will get better. Hey, what's the worse that can happen?

Of course, all this is covered up with vague rationalizations: "well, to expediate our redeployment from Iraq will not mean abdicating our responsibilities..." and other pseudo-intellectual arguments about peace and freedom, "understanding" the terrorists, putting the moral blame on the USA, etc. But this is getting it backwards. It's not as if there is some sort of general idea, or some unifying thought, behind the criticism or rationalizations. They are all merely employed as an excuse for running away from whatever it is that itches right now.

Ziggurat
3rd November 2003, 10:42 AM
Somewhat related, remember all those human shields who went to Iraq to try to protect Saddam... I mean, the Iraqi people, from an American invasion? I wonder how many of them would be willing to become human shields to protect red cross facilities in Iraq from terrorist attacks? Just a thought...

Skeptic
3rd November 2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Ziggurat
Somewhat related, remember all those human shields who went to Iraq to try to protect Saddam... I mean, the Iraqi people, from an American invasion? I wonder how many of them would be willing to become human shields to protect red cross facilities in Iraq from terrorist attacks? Just a thought...

Indeed so. I could imagine St. Francis chaining himself to a power station in Iraq and damn the bombings. I cannot imagine him coming in puffed up with self importance, complaining about the food, hurling up signs saying "human shields" in misspelled Arabic, and then running away the moment he realized he might actually be in real danger.

This is the anti-war movement in a nutshell: do what you feel is right at the moment, until it starts to be mildly inconvenient or dangerous. We're not talking "steely determination" here.

geni
3rd November 2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Skeptic


This is the anti-war movement in a nutshell: do what you feel is right at the moment, until it starts to be mildly inconvenient or dangerous. We're not talking "steely determination" here.

I think the death peace activists in Israel suggests that you point may be incorrect.

Dancing David
3rd November 2003, 11:33 AM
Hmmm. interesting post...

there are times when military action is worth millions of lives. I have to consider what you say... I feel that you can also be anti-war and an activbist but perhaps I need to rethink my stance.

Certainlt the timing of intervention is important... stopping the invasion of Checkoslovakia would have been a good thing, i even understand how we got involved in Korea.

But then peace mongerer me would have had us bomb the crap out of Serbia a whole lot sooner. Maybe pacifism is just a pose, the timing of intervention is crucial.

I think the only fault in the current Iraq front was to not have more troops and MPs on the ground.

Pondering.

Ziggurat
3rd November 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by geni

I think the death peace activists in Israel suggests that you point may be incorrect.

I have little doubt that some indeed have steely determination. But I do doubt that they actually choose their stand (ie, what they decide to try to protect with their lives) with anything approaching moral consistency or even really total awareness.

Skeptic
3rd November 2003, 12:08 PM
Hmmm. interesting post...

there are times when military action is worth millions of lives. I have to consider what you say... I feel that you can also be anti-war and an activbist but perhaps I need to rethink my stance.

I'm not saying you can't. I'm saying that the usual "anti-war activist" is not an activist in any real sense, but really a passivist who chooses the path of least resistance as a matter of course. I am not saying that you specifically are like that (you seem to be an exception to this rule), but that most of them are.

corplinx
3rd November 2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Dancing David

I think the only fault in the current Iraq front was to not have more troops and MPs on the ground.

Pondering.

Sometimes I wonder myself. By what metric can we say we have enough or not enough troops? Do more troops mean more security or more targets? More troops are obviously better when you are playing a numbers game in conventional warfare. Simply put, you outnumber the enemy infantry. However, finding a metric to guage when you have enough troops to fight insurgent groups is harder to do.

Like you, I am still pondering.

Gem
3rd November 2003, 02:36 PM
but really a passivist who chooses the path of least resistance as a matter of course

The sad thing is we could say a similar things to those who supported the war. Did they really have all the information, or were they just as zealous as the anti war protesters. Did they really do anything to support the war?

How many people join the army to support the War on Terrorism?

What I'm saying is: don't just blame it on the war protesters, the other side has plenty of them.

Gem

TillEulenspiegel
3rd November 2003, 08:28 PM
I have said it before and I will repeat myself, The people who are most vociferous and argue for combat ( for the most part ) are the people who least understand or have not seen combat in the first person.

All the Gung Ho folks are comprised by a coterie of ( what my dad used to call) armchair generals and maybe some diehard soldiers who consider it to be a privilege to die for thier country..( love thier ethic but Iraq ain't our country)

I find it disgusting that people who's experience at war starts at the 6:00 news and ends at desert are the first to throw young men ( like the 17Yr old kid from Tampa that went to school with my daughter) into a meat grinder If I were in your presents physically I would smack your ass down. If your convictions are so strong , join the service, Now!, don't give me sh&t about your wife and children or mortgage payment. Those are the same situations faced by all the men and woman stuck in that godforsaken desert must face. So next time you fools lead with your ideology follow it up with your ass.

a_unique_person
4th November 2003, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by geni


I think the death peace activists in Israel suggests that you point may be incorrect.

As usual, Skeptic relies on gross generalisations to prove his ignorance yet again.

DrChinese
4th November 2003, 09:22 AM
First, pacificism is a goal - not an absolute. The pacifist raises the bar to when and how violence should be used, stating that it is rarely if ever the best solution in a given situation.

Second, there are plenty of members of the peace movement who judge wars on a case by case basis. There is certainly nothing wrong with this approach. For example, I opposed the Vietnam War and the current war in Iraq. But I do not oppose all war.

Third, there are plenty of people who want to show the world that the US is not to be messed with. These folks would use many different slights as a pretext for war.

So tell me, who is braver? Who is morally bankrupt? It is not easy to advocate peace when we have such a powerful military.

rikzilla
4th November 2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by a_unique_person


As usual, Skeptic relies on gross generalisations to prove his ignorance yet again.

As usual AUP paries informed opinion with vague ad-hom.
:rolleyes: