The woman who can't forget?

[Smiledriver]

Just saw a woman on the Oprah Winfrey show named Jill Price, she claims to be able to remember everything that happened to her since she was 14 years old. So give her a date and she can tell you where she was and what day of the week it was, what she was doing and any newsworthy event that happened that day.

The Dr. on the show seemed pretty uncritical, but a web search reveals that she has been studied and these studies seemed to verify that she was the real deal. Still, I remember hearing about some Isreali guy fooling scientists before so I remain skeptical.

Here's why I think it might be a hoax. She seemed like she was doing an act. Oprah gave her a date and Ms. Price rattles off....

1.) The day of the week
2.) What she was doing (unverifiable)
3.) The newsworthy event (Baby Jessica falls in a well, John Lennon is shot)

The day of the week seems impressive but is there a system of recalling this that I'm missing?

What do you guys think?

[Jeff Corey]

Like October 5, 1455? That would be impressive.

Monday.

[Safe-Keeper]

The day of the week seems impressive but is there a system of recalling this that I'm missing?I have one of those "improve your memory" books and it's actually pretty good, and has a skeptical attitude to many of the "amazing" people with incredibly strong memories. He details how you can, using relatively simple calculations you can do in your head, find out things such as which week day a person was born if you get the date and year.

[Earthborn]

The weekday thing isn't all that impressive. If I set my mind to it, I could probably memorise several algorithms to do it in my head, such as the Zeller's algorithm. I'm not all that good with mental arithmetic so I just don't bother.

[Robert Oz]

The day of the week seems impressive but is there a system of recalling this that I'm missing?


I seem to remember that Corinda's "Thirteen Steps to Mentalism" includes a method of giving the day any particular date falls on within seconds after some practice. Fairly simple mathematics if I remember correctly.

[Arus808]

I dont belive anyone can be that well versed in their every day dealings, to know exactly what they were doing (without proof of course). I can't even tell you what I did five minute ago, let alone what I did on this day when I was 14, with any clarity


The only way to prove her claims is to provide proof of what she did. Ie Have a private investigator follow her around for two weeks, video taping, and photographing everything she does.

then 6 months from that time, have her on, and verify exactly what she was doing during those two weeks, she was being watched,

and use pointed questions:

At 6:37 pm on Dec 7, 2008, what were you doing ?


What kind of questions were being asked? WERE they specific? Or general.


edit to add: knowing the "day" of the week that a specific date fell on is not a "talent" . as stated by others, one could memorize an algorhythm to figure that out.

[TheAnachronism]

I do remember seeing her on a national news program a while ago. I think it may have been CNN, but at the time, I wasn't really paying much attention.

I do remember that they interviewed and tested her quite a bit (which was shown on TV). In these "tests," they gave her a date, and as you said, she was able to tell you the day, what she did, and any noteworthy news.

BUT, and this was quite impressive, she was able to remember the airing dates of specific episodes of popular TV shows throughout her childhood and adulthood, which the anchors checked with a TV guide type thing. In one case, she got the answer "wrong" but when it was later checked, it showed that the TV Guide was actually wrong. They also quizzed her over days that things happened with an anthology of the New York Times in front of them.

I may try to youtube it and see if I find anything.

ETA: It aired on abc News and you can see part of it here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAbQvmf0YOQ)

[Hokulele]

Was she described as a savant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome)?

[Dragoonster]

Is she remembering what she knew/did at the time, or is she remembering what she's studied herself to remember over the last year or whatever?

If the latter, she could have possibly memorized a significant event for every day since the age of 14 where she said it started. That might change to 12 or 8 if she studies more. Or...perhaps that was when she started recording every day in a journal that she now studies.

I'm not saying it's untrue or not possible, just posing reasons why it might not be exactly what it seems (effortless memory recall).

[TheAnachronism]

This case is worth being skeptical about, to be sure. In terms of your first question, it would be interesting to know how much detail she could go into for any given date. If you've watched the video in my link, it mentions her (exceptionally lengthy) journal, and shows a brief shot of it. They could easily use this to gauge whether or not she is merely memorizing a large event for each day, or whether she can automatically recall most events recorded in the journal for any given day.

By the way, I believe she recently came out with a book. Has anyone happened to see a copy? As soon as I catch it at my library, I just might pick it up. A biased source of information, no doubt, but it would be interesting to hear from her point of view.

Is she remembering what she knew/did at the time, or is she remembering what she's studied herself to remember over the last year or whatever?

If the latter, she could have possibly memorized a significant event for every day since the age of 14 where she said it started. That might change to 12 or 8 if she studies more. Or...perhaps that was when she started recording every day in a journal that she now studies.

I'm not saying it's untrue or not possible, just posing reasons why it might not be exactly what it seems (effortless memory recall).

[Richard Masters]

Just saw a woman on the Oprah Winfrey show named Jill Price, she claims to be able to remember everything that happened to her since she was 14 years old. So give her a date and she can tell you where she was and what day of the week it was, what she was doing and any newsworthy event that happened that day.

The Dr. on the show seemed pretty uncritical, but a web search reveals that she has been studied and these studies seemed to verify that she was the real deal. Still, I remember hearing about some Isreali guy fooling scientists before so I remain skeptical.

Here's why I think it might be a hoax. She seemed like she was doing an act. Oprah gave her a date and Ms. Price rattles off....

1.) The day of the week
2.) What she was doing (unverifiable)
3.) The newsworthy event (Baby Jessica falls in a well, John Lennon is shot)

The day of the week seems impressive but is there a system of recalling this that I'm missing?

What do you guys think?

I don't know about this particular instance, but there are confirmed instances of savants who can perform similar feats.

ETA, should have read the whole thread. Hokulele commented on savants already.

[CFLarsen]

If she can remember "everything", why does she focus on the newsworthy events of the day - as in headline news? It would be much more impressive if she could rattle off all of the New York Times' articles on one particular day, especially the minor stories.

It is possible to calculate the day of the week. One of my former colleagues could do it in his head.

[Kuko 4000]

There are many memory techniques that make seemingly impossible things possible. I've read one book by Dominic O'Brien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominic_O%27Brien) and learned a few basic and useful techniques in a matter of minutes. The more complicated techniques allow for amazing results. This:

So give her a date and she can tell you where she was and what day of the week it was, what she was doing and any newsworthy event that happened that day.

...is mundane compared to Dominic and other memory masters.

Now this on the other hand:

named Jill Price, she claims to be able to remember everything that happened to her since she was 14 years old.

...is something to approach with skepticism. And of course, everything depends on the level of detail she can achieve.

[monoman]

Was she described as a savant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome)?

Well, I have a staff of 3 savants and the useless rabble can't even remember my bath day so I'd hope she wasn't described as that.

[shadron]

There is a formula called Zeller's Congruence that gives the day of the week given the full date. It has to be adjusted for Julian calendars, which depend on where you are, exactly, because it was adopted at different times in different places. George Washington's birthday was on Feb 12 or Feb 22, depending on whether he is considered British or American. It wouldn't be too hard, with practice, to determine a particular day's day of the week.

Also see Doomsday Rule.

[Cuddles]

If she can remember "everything", why does she focus on the newsworthy events of the day - as in headline news? It would be much more impressive if she could rattle off all of the New York Times' articles on one particular day, especially the minor stories.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. In addition, I don't see how this would prove her claim anyway. Has she actually read the newspaper every day since she was 14? I doubt it, and if not then reciting headline news would just show that she has since memorised headline news, not that she remembers it from that day. Same for knowing what day a particular date was. I quite often go a few days without knowing what date it is, and on holidays even without knowing what day it is. Sure, I could work it out later, but that wouldn't be remembering what happened, it would be working it out afterwards.

From what I can see, it seems she does have an unusually good memory. However, it seems far more likely that what she remembers is things that have been written down and studied, not simply everything that has happened in her life. The very existence of her journal suggests that. Why would she have one if she can remember it all anyway?

[shuttlt]

From memory (ha ha... ha) her claim is that she can remember everything as if watching the events again in a tiny little cinema inside her head. My very ordinary memory could be wrong though.

[Dancing David]

Just saw a woman on the Oprah Winfrey show named Jill Price, she claims to be able to remember everything that happened to her since she was 14 years old. So give her a date and she can tell you where she was and what day of the week it was, what she was doing and any newsworthy event that happened that day.

The Dr. on the show seemed pretty uncritical, but a web search reveals that she has been studied and these studies seemed to verify that she was the real deal. Still, I remember hearing about some Isreali guy fooling scientists before so I remain skeptical.

Here's why I think it might be a hoax. She seemed like she was doing an act. Oprah gave her a date and Ms. Price rattles off....

1.) The day of the week
2.) What she was doing (unverifiable)
3.) The newsworthy event (Baby Jessica falls in a well, John Lennon is shot)

The day of the week seems impressive but is there a system of recalling this that I'm missing?

What do you guys think?

Ediect memory is not that remarakable, why are you sceptical, if she can be tested to a degree, then that is all that there is.

The question is why would this be a suprize? There is an ability in 'normal' humans to memorize and recite huge amounts of verbal material, almost all humans can do this. They don't but it is not that hard to do. Most people have the capacity to do it.

ETA: the question is what good does it do her, I doubt there is much survival skill in it. My brother has an amazing memory as well, but not for specific days.

[shuttlt]

Even assuming that that is how her 'ability' works, it could be that her memory isn't quite as good as it appears and her brain is filling in a whole load of blanks and making things up just like every other brain...

[Cuddles]

why are you sceptical

I'm skeptical because the claims of what she can do and the actual demonstrations and background information do not seem to add up. As already noted several times, working out what day a particular date was does not require much of a memory at all. Memorising lots of headlines may require a decent memory, but in no way suggests remembering everything that has ever happened to you. And why would someone keep a journal if they could remember it all anyway? It seems far more likely that she kept a very detailed journal and has a memory good enough to memorise it, along with headlines that may not have been included and working out days. I won't say that she is a liar or fraud, it's entirely possible that she really believes she can remember everything, but that it is simply a result of her brain filling in the details of the memorised things, as it does with everyone else.

Ediect memory is not that remarakable

Peronally, I would consider eidetic memory fairly remarkable. More to the point, as far as I am aware no adult has ever been confirmed as having a truly eidetic long-term memory. It can be relatively common in children, but is short-term and doesn't extend to detailed things like text. I can't find a single verified case of someone actually remembering their life in the way this woman claims to.

[Bikewer]

I believe this sort of memory phenomena does have well-studied underpinnings; and as far as I know it is related to savant-type conditions.
Now, whether this particular individual has such a condition or is practicing some sort of mentalism discipline would seem to be pretty easy to test; the usual "controlled conditions" sort of arrangement wouldn't be too hard to set up.

[Richard Masters]

Well, I have a staff of 3 savants and the useless rabble can't even remember my bath day so I'd hope she wasn't described as that.

I find it more difficult to believe that you have a staff of 3 savants (as the term is popularly used), since that is even more improbable.

[Smiledriver]

So she could do this with mental trick for the day of the week and memorizing the dates of newsworthy events.

How do we test her?

[shuttlt]

I find it more difficult to believe that you have a staff of 3 savants (as the term is popularly used), since that is even more improbable.

I keep 6 catamites to cater to my needs. You don't mean to say you type your own posts, old boy?

[Richard Masters]

I keep 6 catamites to cater to my needs. You don't mean to say you type your own posts, old boy?

If they are savantist catamites, I'll be impressed. But, no, I'm not good-looking enough or wealthy enough to delegate my posts, yet. :p

[plumjam]

Who the heck's going to marry her?

[Ashles]

BUT, and this was quite impressive, she was able to remember the airing dates of specific episodes of popular TV shows throughout her childhood and adulthood, which the anchors checked with a TV guide type thing. In one case, she got the answer "wrong" but when it was later checked, it showed that the TV Guide was actually wrong.
This is interesting as presumably she could not have watched everything on TV so she would be answering I don't know to a lot of questions as she simply wouild not have been exposed to the informatin in the first place.

Unless she had specifically decided to look at the TV Guide each day in which case there would have been a conscious decision to memorise it. Or she had selected certain key TV programmes each day to memorise.

This isn't to say this isn't still an incredibly impressive feat, but it alters it slightly in my mind from someone who just remembers everything, to someone who has decided to use a nayural gift for memorising things to remember a representative sampling of information from every day of her life. The journal seems to indicate that too.

It would be interesting to see what she cannot remember (but obviously we run into problems as to what she would have been exposed to).
The idea of testing on smaller stories in the paper would be a good one to explore (she would, presumably, be able to detail what papers she had read on what days).

The claim that she remembers 'everything' obviously isn't literally true as the amount of information we are exposed to every single day is enormous and we disregard most of it almost instantly. It woud be fascinating to know where her limit is, and how much of it is deliberate and how much she remembers without even trying.
Maybe she has some extraordinary method of mnemonics that almost acts as a compression algorithm.
It's an amazing ability.

I have an email started on my other screen - now I can't remember who I was sending to or what it was about.

[VespaGuy]

Marilou Henner ("Taxi") also claims to have this ability.

[Soapy Sam]

Calculating day of the week for any date (without electronics) is explained in most memory training books.

[Smiledriver]

Marilou Henner eh? I got a few memories of my own regarding her.

[Dancing David]

I'm skeptical because the claims of what she can do and the actual demonstrations and background information do not seem to add up. As already noted several times, working out what day a particular date was does not require much of a memory at all. Memorising lots of headlines may require a decent memory, but in no way suggests remembering everything that has ever happened to you. And why would someone keep a journal if they could remember it all anyway? It seems far more likely that she kept a very detailed journal and has a memory good enough to memorise it, along with headlines that may not have been included and working out days. I won't say that she is a liar or fraud, it's entirely possible that she really believes she can remember everything, but that it is simply a result of her brain filling in the details of the memorised things, as it does with everyone else.



Peronally, I would consider eidetic memory fairly remarkable. More to the point, as far as I am aware no adult has ever been confirmed as having a truly eidetic long-term memory. It can be relatively common in children, but is short-term and doesn't extend to detailed things like text. I can't find a single verified case of someone actually remembering their life in the way this woman claims to.

Fair enough, I knew a guy with a bizarre neurological condition, he could tell you who played in all the world series, and the play offs , then he could tell you the team stats and players stats and the different scores for the different games.

It was remarkable, but then he needed help to get dressed.

[Dancing David]

Here is a case study, I have to find the PDF
:

"A Case of Unusual Autobiographical Remembering", by Elizabeth S. Parker, Larry Cahill & James L. McGaugh, NEUROCASE (2006) 12, 35-49 ...

[Arus808]

I would say that someone should just pick up a newspaper (one that she claims to pull headlines from or has already referenced) and have her recite a mundane article, or classified ad, and recite it word for word.

[Sefarst]

Why isn't she a doctor or lawyer or some other job that requires a great deal of memorization? It'd be great to have a doctor that could memorize every possible symptom and every possible treatment for every possible disease at the snap of her fingers.

There's a rather simple test for this. Randomly generate a list of a few hundred numbers, let her read it once and then make her recall it.

I'm skeptical that she really can't forget things. Tricks to have good memory are impressive but attainable. Derren Brown has done similar.

[billydkid]

I would think it would drive you insane to actually remember everything you ever experienced.

[NotJesus]

Well, I have a staff of 3 savants and the useless rabble can't even remember my bath day...

You hire savants to bathe you? How odd.

[NotJesus]

Marilou Henner ("Taxi") also claims to have this ability.


I once saw Bob Costas interview Henner. He gave her a date and asked her what she was doing. It turned out to be (according to her) the day that she lost her virginity. She seemed genuinely flabbergasted that he'd come up with that date. He insisted he'd picked it at random.

Genuine or not, it was pretty entertaining.

[Richard Masters]

You hire savants to bathe you? How odd.

Oh, it was a bad pun... :) I must have come across as pedantic.

[jmcvann]

Just saw a woman on the Oprah Winfrey show ...claims to be able to remember everything that happened to her since she was 14 years old. So give her a date and she can tell you where she was and what day of the week it was, what she was doing and any newsworthy event that happened that day.

The Dr. on the show seemed pretty uncritical...

Here's why I think it might be a hoax...

First, it's on Oprah, who recently featured a woman whose dog could do math. They would show the dog a flash card with a simple math problem and the dog would tap its paw the number of times of the answer. To the amazement of no one here, when the dog was tapping, they always zoomed in close so you could only see the dog tapping, and not the owner give the cue to stop. Oprah was amazed. Oprah is, if not stupid, extremely gullible.

The doctor was Dr. Oz, who has raved about acupuncture on Oprah's show. Dr. Oz is, in my opinion, a glory hog who doesn't mind the free publicity he gets from Oprah.

I say there's no way we cannot be wary about this woman's memory claims.

[Richard Masters]

First, it's on Oprah, who recently featured a woman whose dog could do math. They would show the dog a flash card with a simple math problem and the dog would tap its paw the number of times of the answer. To the amazement of no one here, when the dog was tapping, they always zoomed in close so you could only see the dog tapping, and not the owner give the cue to stop. Oprah was amazed. Oprah is, if not stupid, extremely gullible.

The doctor was Dr. Oz, who has raved about acupuncture on Oprah's show. Dr. Oz is, in my opinion, a glory hog who doesn't mind the free publicity he gets from Oprah.

I say there's no way we cannot be wary about this woman's memory claims.

Well, Oprah did introduce many people to "The Secret"; but since I don't watch her show all that often, I don't know if her misses are typical. On the other hand, she introduced many people to Obama, which isn't all that bad.

I was under the impression that Oprah is popular because of her empathy, not her skepticism. I can't fault her for being empathetic, and to judge her only on her skepticism misses the general intent of her TV show.

[Hamradioguy]

A couple of months ago on a news show a chap was featured who also apparently had a remarkable photographic memory. Now I don't, so I can't recall the specifics. I believe he was a long time reporter for a small radio station or newspaper. Anyhow, besides the usual "give the day of the week for a given date" (Which as already pointed out here isn't all that remarkable) he could go into great specifics about what happened on any given date. I didn't sense that there was any kind of flim-flam going on. He just seemed to have a genuine ability to recall what happened on whatever date he was given. Perhaps someone else here can recall more about this gentleman.

[Dragoonster]

Came upon this page on records for various memorization/calculation categories, including some calender memorization:

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/memory.html#digits-4s

I once saw Bob Costas interview Henner. He gave her a date and asked her what she was doing. It turned out to be (according to her) the day that she lost her virginity. She seemed genuinely flabbergasted that he'd come up with that date. He insisted he'd picked it at random.

Genuine or not, it was pretty entertaining.

I remember that one. Was sad to see that show and the HBO one come to an end, and not on repeats anywhere. Costas did some great interviewing.

[monoman]

Oh, it was a bad pun... :) I must have come across as pedantic.

If you speak the Queen's then it's not too bad a pun.

As for Catamite, I had the peasants dust off the old Oxford and report back on that one.
If a vigorous rubbing of intimate areas, for the purposes of hygiene, constitutes that then, forthwith, I shall refer to them as my loyal Catamites.

[luchog]

Why isn't she a doctor or lawyer or some other job that requires a great deal of memorization? It'd be great to have a doctor that could memorize every possible symptom and every possible treatment for every possible disease at the snap of her fingers.
Because memorization is not actually the most important skill for those jobs. Good observation, critical thinking, and judgement skills are. Savant type people are commonly extremely limited in what they're able to do, and often have serious deficiencies in other areas. The phenomenon is typically associated with profound autism and other developmental disorders, and brain injury or disease. It has been well documented.

If this woman is a true savant, then that's interesting; but unless you're a neurologist, it's nothing more than a curiosity. If not, well, pretending to be one doesn't really gain her anything beyond a bit of very minor and momentary celebrity -- a little attention, nothing more.

Don't see why so many people are getting so haired-out about debunking it.

[VespaGuy]

I once saw Bob Costas interview Henner. He gave her a date and asked her what she was doing. It turned out to be (according to her) the day that she lost her virginity. She seemed genuinely flabbergasted that he'd come up with that date. He insisted he'd picked it at random.

Genuine or not, it was pretty entertaining.

I saw the same interview. I thought it was Carson who interviewed her, but according to Wikipedia, you are correct - it was Costas. The date he gave her was actually the date of the first moon landing. Which would have made her 17 years old when she lost her virginity.

[Gregoire]

I saw someone on the Today show making the same claim a while back. They "tested" him by giving him three different dates and had him decide which date he wanted to talk about. After listening to the choices, he chose the date that just happen to match the day of the broadcast, just 20 or so years earlier.

All in all, I wasn't impressed. I say ask these people who claim they "can't forget" to tell us what the weather was like on some date 20 years ago. That should be "easier" for them to remember than just a headline which they may not have read. Now that might be impressive.