Prove the Earth is round

[Kumar]

Hello Mr. Hans,

Just read about 'what you believe' in topic 'This is geni's fault!'.

Also read 'Safety Alerts for Drugs, Biologics, Devices, and Dietary Supplements (last revised 11/20/2003), Recalls - FDA Enforcement Report Etc. 1996-2003

HERE (http://www.fda.gov/opacom/Enforce.html)

[The Don]

Kumar is correct,

Homeopath(et)ic "remedies" are usually very, very safe indeed unless the water used to carry out the dilution has some unfortunate impurities.

Ineffective but save (rather like the Middlesbrough Football Club Strikers :( )

[Kumar]

Nothing is better than........??

The study, published in the Sept. 9 issue of the Mayo Clinic Proceedings, reported on six cases of congestive heart failure in people taking pioglitazone (Actos) or rosiglitazone (Avandia) to help control their diabetes.

Full report & above quote from: HERE (http://www.healthscout.com/news/419/515007/main.html)

RxList Side Effects and Drug Interactions Page Listing

A-Z Alphabetical by Brand Name / Generic

READ HERE (http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/brand.htm#p)

FDA gov Adverse Reactions:

Animal Drugs
Blood Products
Devices
Dietary Supplements/Specials Nutritionals
Drugs
Vaccines
Advisory
ACCESS HERE (http://www.fda.gov/opacom/hpchoice.html)

[Kumar]

Originally posted by The Don
Kumar is correct,

Homeopath(et)ic "remedies" are usually very, very safe indeed unless the water used to carry out the dilution has some unfortunate impurities.

Ineffective but save (rather like the Middlesbrough Football Club Strikers :( ) The Don,

HOMŒOPATHY EXPLAINED
By John Henry Clarke, M. D.
Presented by Médi-T

Homœopathy, Allopathy & Enantiopathy :
Three Ways of Utilising Drug Action.

It is for you

Study here (http://www.homeoint.org/books5/clarkehomeo/homeoallo.htm)

Greatest Surprise: Google search for ' treated person allopathy' given 2150 results in 0.43 seconds?? SEE HERE (http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=treated+person+allopathy&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)

[The Don]

Originally posted by Kumar
The Don,

HOMŒOPATHY EXPLAINED
By John Henry Clarke, M. D.
Presented by Médi-T

Homœopathy, Allopathy & Enantiopathy :
Three Ways of Utilising Drug Action.

It is for you

Study here (http://www.homeoint.org/books5/clarkehomeo/homeoallo.htm)

Greatest Surprise: Google search for ' treated person allopathy' given 2150 results in 0.43 seconds?? SEE HERE (http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=treated+person+allopathy&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)

Apologies for my loseness of terminology:

- Very high dilution Homopathic "remedies" are perfectly harmless though ineffective
- Other Homopathic "remedies" are potentially dangerous

Is that better ?

Even Greater than greatest Suprise : Google search for "Loch Ness Monster" Turned up 62,200 results in 0.13 seconds. Just because the Internet is full of it, doesn't mean that the Internet isn't "full of it"

[Kumar]

Thanks God!! all are not 'potentially dangerous'.:D

[Zep]

Kumar: Reality is that which, when you cease to believe, continues to exist. Phillip K Dick It means, if anything is existing since long then it is reality.WHAT UTTER RUBBISH! It means no such thing at all, Kumar! Your "interpretation" of such a straight forward and neatly stated sentence shows you have no understanding of what you are pretending to talk about. If you can't even understand such a plain sentence, how are we expected to believe anything you tell us about medicine and homeopathy?

I suppose it could be merely the language difference, but given the evidence you present, I'm now far more certain it is plain obstinate obduracy and an impenetrable cranium on your part, Kumar.

Go look these words up...

[The Don]

Put it this way ANYTHING which has an effect on the human body is potentially dangerous.

The purpose of running drugs through trials and so forth is to see whether the positive qualities of drugs outwiegh any side-effects. Drug trials also tend to identify who are at high risk from side effects.

Cases where medicines are withdrawn can fall into a number of categories:

- Cases where the goalposts have moved and previously acceptable side effects are unacceptable
- Cases where the initial study was insufficiently complete. To be truly thorough you'd have to give everyone in the world a drug to identify all possible side effects - not really possible
- Cases where a drug is being used for a reason, or within a group not covered by the drug trial
- (very rare) Cases where the results of the study were falsified


Compare this to homeopathy where patients are treated with materials that are either completely benign (i.e. have no effect) or are being treated with various amounts of untested substances.


People who administer homeopathic remedies are either quacks (if their action doesn't result in the death or their patient) or murderers (if it does).

I will revise my opinion when:

- Homeopathic medecines are subject to the same testing regimen as "proper" medicines
- Homeopathy is shown to work in an well conducted trial which is subject to peer review

[MRC_Hans]

A google search on "kumar is an idiot" gives 3,660 hits in 0.22 secs.

HERE (http://www.google.dk/search?hl=da&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=kumar+is+an+idiot&btnG=Google-s%C3%B8gning&meta=)

Where are the thanks?

Hans :D

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by The Don
Put it this way ANYTHING which has an effect on the human body is potentially dangerous.Exactly. It's relatively easy to avoid undesirable effects when the preparation you're using doesn't have any effect of any description.

I saw a very good analogy in a thread on one of the boards Kumar would rather we didn't go lurking in. There is a homoeopath there who consistently responds to any criticism of homoeopathy by banging on about the thalidomide affair (from more than 40 years ago). One poster replied pointing out that, obviously, safety and efficacy are two different properties. He then introduced the analogy of cutting down a tree. A chain saw is an effective instrument for that job. However, a chain saw is also dangerous. A feather is not dangerous (unless you happen to be allergic to feathers, I suppose). However, a feather is not effective for cutting down a tree. The homoeopaths are in the business of trying to cut down trees with feathers. When we point out that feathers aren't very good at this, the response "but chain saws are dangerous" seems to be the best they can do.

Of course it's not that simple. Trees don't often fall down of their own accord. If you had enough patience, of course you could claim that the feather was effective, because in the end, I suppose, the tree would eventually fall down. But you'd need a pretty extended life span to make that one fly. However, the self-repair mechanisms of the mammalian body are quite prodigious. And even chronic diseases often wax and wane in a most confusing manner. It's astoundingly easy to convince yourself that an ineffective intervention has been effective, and homoeopathy has no monopoly on that.

This is why controlled trials are designed for real medicines, so that we can as far as possible eliminate the effects of natural recovery, natural fluctuation in the course of the condition, and clinician wishful thinking, on our assessment of the benefits. However, homoeopathy rejects the controlled trial (except for the few small studies which managed to fluke a positive result, of course!). Argumentum ad populum (surely so many people can't be mistaken) is simply rubbish in this context. Millions of people believe in astrology, too! (I was trying to find the homoeopathy thread in which the possibility of using astrological signs to divine the correct homoeopathic remedy was apparently being seriously discussed, but I can't trace it among the heap of woo-woo - as I said, so much fruitcake, so little time! Anyone who knows where it is, please link.)

And it's not that simple in another way too. Homoeopaths believe in something called "homoeopathic aggravation", or "Hering's Law", in which the remedy may exacerbate the situation for a variable time before the "cure" sets in. The initial reason for this goes back to the early work of Hahnemann, when he often used real quantities of really poisonous substances. He then started diluting them out, and "discovered" that the adverse effects faded, while the "healing" effects remained. This is hardly surprising, as the adverse effects were real and the healing effects were delusional. However, the thing has perpetuated in homoeopathic theory, so that now when a patient deteriorates after the remedy is given, this is attributed to the remedy - sort of "the bad's coming out", as if a boil had burst.

Another explanation for an apparent adverse effect of a homoeopathic remedy is that the patient is exhibiting a "proving" of the remedy, something which would be experienced by members of a healthy proving group in the process of finding out which "like" this stuff might be thought to cure. A third excuse, for when the patient has deteriorated after discontinuing "allopathic" treatment to switch to homoeopathy, is that the antibiotic (or whatever) has simply suppressed the disease (which is bad), and the homoeopathy has now allowed the natural expression of the symptoms (which is good. :confused: )

If you trawl the homoeopathy discussion boards you can find plenty of examples of these (then of course when you want to link to them they've vanished and you get distracted by even newer and better woo-woo....). It's interesting that there's so much of it when unfiltered discussion of real cases is monitored, whereas if you just read the cases these people publish you see very little assumption of adverse effects.

Of course, if these were really effects of the magic water, it would be vitally important to carry out safety tests. In one of the threads I can't find, someone reported that her mother's skin condition had become very much worse indeed after a remedy, so that she was scratching her skin until it bled. This was either Hering's Law or a proving, I forget which. Some sceptic then remarked that if a homoeopathic remedy could cause reactions like that, any claim that this method is safe is a pack of lies.

The reason that no safety tests are required is of course that the deteriorations are either the normal course of the disease, or the consequence of discontinuing effective treatment to switch to homoeopathy. Even the "proving" symptoms can't be shown to exist in blind testing. The fact is that whatever you do, the patient will either improve, stay the same, or get worse. Homoeopathy has answers for every eventuality, it just doesn't like to dwell on its explanations for the "get worse" situations, as that might raise embarrassing questions in relation to safety. And of course none of the explanations involves the possibility that homoeopathy might not be effective.

Rolfe.

[Kumar]

A google search on "kumar is an idiot" gives 3,660 hits in 0.22 secs.A google search on "kumar is an idiot" gives 3,660 hits in 0.22 secs.

HERE

Where are the thanks?

Hans



A GOOGLE SEARCH 'hans is an .....'. Results 1 - 10 of about 57,800. Search took 0.21 seconds. SORRY COMPARE HERE (http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=hans+is+an+idiot&btnG=Google+Search&meta=):D :D

[MRC_Hans]

How quick you learn, Kumar! Keep up the good work, and in a few months you'll be able to get something meaningful from Google!

:clap:

Hans

[Kumar]

By that, I think i have lead towords less spritualism. I shall think. The differance among us may be just here & there. But eveything is just for the internet/forum addictions to pass the time & have fun, which is ok.

[alibaba]

Didn't get a chance to go through all the talking in this thread. But here is my tale:
1- most of what I read can be explained by any 3D object(Cylinder or part of a cone for instance). They only answer the question whether the earth was flat or not.

2- The closest thing I can think of to an answer is sailing with the "complete idiot.":

We will see the home land sinking down and disappearing. Well, that could happen if the ocean was a cyclinder, or a section of a sphere.

Once the land disappears, we see the sea surrounding us in a circule. That scene remains until we reach our distination. Seeing the sea as a disk eliminates the possiblity of a cylinder (sea would look rectangular). However, if earth was flat, we would still see the ocean as disk, but we would keep visual of both home land and distination throughout our trip.

If it was part of a cone, we would have to see an abrupt edge when sailing from home to distination.

A convex palin would still give the same results. But the final way to do it is to ask our "complete idiot" to take an 81-day trip around the world (W-E) and repeat it in the orthogonal direction(N-S). If he doesn't dropp off from the other side of the world, or hit an edge, that would prove that earth is a sphere. If it doesn't, it wouldn't bother with such an idiot any more :)

By the way, the earth is not really spherical, it has more of an eliptic cross section at the plane of sclipse.

[BillyJoe]

Alibaba,

Try explaining your post to "a complete idiot" :D
('Specially dat bit 'bout orthogonad ;) )

BillyJoe

[Kumar]

Hello all,

I feel happy to announce that I also made my views-shape of earth is round, which I could see in my dream & I do have faith in my dreams. It means-seen it physically. I wish some respective/similar dreams for you.

Many thanks & sorry. :D

[BillyJoe]

Kumar,

I also had a dream. I dreamt of a balloon in the shape of a head floating in mid air with the letters K U M A R written on its forehead. I turned it round and on the back of the head was a tiny dot and over it the word FAITH was written in overly big letters. I touched the dot with my fingernail and all of a sudden the balloon burst. For some reason I was expecting some brains to come bursting out but all I felt was a rush of cold air which chilled me to the very marrow.

:D

regards,
BillyJoe

[El Greco]

Earth is certainly flat, those who play Civ know it. It's just that when you move past the right edge of the screen you appear at the left edge.

[BillyJoe]

.....and if you move past the top of the screen you appear at the bottom edge of the screen.....where you will meet Kumar :D

[DangerousBeliefs]

Originally posted by Kumar
Hello all,

I feel happy to announce that I also made my views-shape of earth is round, which I could see in my dream & I do have faith in my dreams. It means-seen it physically. I wish some respective/similar dreams for you.

Many thanks & sorry. :D

Ok, now I 100% believe Kumar is nothing more than a troll.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by DangerousBeliefs
Ok, now I 100% believe Kumar is nothing more than a troll. This thread is pure troll, I grant you that.

As for the rest of it, it's odd. He occasionally says something which suggests he genuinely wants to learn, or has taken on board a point someone has made, but then he starts with sheer bad behaviour, spamming threads with silly Google searches and so on, and you just despair.

And when you go back to Homeopathy Home (http://www.homeopathyhome.com/ultimate/ultimatebb.php) (where he's Kayveeh) or Hpathy Forums (http://www.hpathy.com/FORUM/Default.asp) (where he's vijay0507), you see that he's an unshakable believer in homoeopathy, no matter what contrary evidence he's just been offered.

Rolfe.

[rachaella]

Flat Earth Society (http://www.flat-earth.org/)

I can't decide if this is genuine or a hoax. Some claims that Idaho and Englan don't exist lead me to believe it is in fact a hoax.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by rachaella
Flat Earth Society (http://www.flat-earth.org/)

I can't decide if this is genuine or a hoax. Some claims that Idaho and Englan don't exist lead me to believe it is in fact a hoax. Oh! thanks rachaella. Good site which made me to re-think about my dream.;)

[geni]

Originally posted by rachaella
Flat Earth Society (http://www.flat-earth.org/)

I can't decide if this is genuine or a hoax. Some claims that Idaho and Englan don't exist lead me to believe it is in fact a hoax.

Pure beatiful hoax. Now can someone explane kumars coments?

[geni]

Originally posted by El Greco
Earth is certainly flat, those who play Civ know it. It's just that when you move past the right edge of the screen you appear at the left edge.

Have you not played the doughnut version?