The Macbeth curse(s)

[jmcvann]

Have any other actors out there been annoyed by fellow actors and the Macbeth nonsense? I was in a production of Macbeth recently and we pretty much had to call it "The Scottish Play." The director insisted on calling the leads Mac and Lady Mac, and those actors thought that appropriate. The only time one could say "Macbeth" was when it was in your lines. Sadly, most of the cast also believed (or seemed to believe) in the "curse" as well.

I was also in a play years ago during which, before the show one night, an actor said "Macbeth" during a conversation we were having while warming up on stage. The stage manager came running from backstage and demanded the conversation stop. She also had the actor who said the dread word go out the back door, spin, spit - I don't know what else - as this is apparently the "cure" for the "curse."

Oh how I just want to work with actors who have more belief in their abilities and less belief in nonsense.

[Piscivore]

Sounds like that stage manager had a problem, but are you sure the rest of them don't just think it's all in good fun?

[jmcvann]

Piscivore: You following me around???? :-)


Sounds like that stage manager had a problem, but are you sure the rest of them don't just think it's all in good fun?

Many actors, maybe because we live in a land of make-believe much of the time, have some strange beliefs, although possibly no more than other groups. They're just the people I hang around with the most. I've challenged some actors on the Macbeth issue, and have received some nearly-hostile replies. Because actors must develop a closeness unlike that in many undertakings, I usually drop the subject rather than create hard feelings with my fellow actors.

More recently I was in a production of "Major Barbara" by George Bernard Shaw, one of the more rational playwrights of any age. Nearly all of the cast believed in and frequently talked about ESP, ghosts and the abilities of John Edward. I remember thinking Shaw would be amused.

[Piscivore]

Piscivore: You following me around???? :-)
Nope, you're just talking about interesting things. :)


Many actors, maybe because we live in a land of make-believe much of the time, have some strange beliefs, although possibly no more than other groups. They're just the people I hang around with the most. I've challenged some actors on the Macbeth issue, and have received some nearly-hostile replies.
Like what, specifically?

Because actors must develop a closeness unlike that in many undertakings, I usually drop the subject rather than create hard feelings with my fellow actors.
Heh, probably a good plan. I know from a friend of mine the last thing an actor wants to do is get a reputation as "troublesome".

More recently I was in a production of "Major Barbara" by George Bernard Shaw, one of the more rational playwrights of any age. Nearly all of the cast believed in and frequently talked about ESP, ghosts and the abilities of John Edward. I remember thinking Shaw would be amused.
Do you think that maybe it is because acting has a strong emotional component?

[Safe-Keeper]

I've heard that theatres and actors inevitably develop some strange woo-ish beliefs (the theater is haunted, doing this and that invokes a curse, etc.). So there's truth to this (no, not the MacBeth curse, the tendency of actors to be superstitious)?

[Madalch]

That superstition made an entire episode of Blackadder.

[jmcvann]

Like what, specifically?


I was backed into a corner once by an angry actor who told me that if anything went wrong with the play that night it would be my fault. Thank goodness it was a good show that night.


Do you think that maybe it is because acting has a strong emotional component?


Absolutely. But I don't have any problem pretending to believe in something supernatural, should the play call for it.

[Piscivore]

I was backed into a corner once by an angry actor who told me that if anything went wrong with the play that night it would be my fault. Thank goodness it was a good show that night.
Heh. :)
Is that the norm, then, or is it just a few like that?

[jmcvann]

I've heard that theatres and actors inevitably develop some strange woo-ish beliefs (the theater is haunted, doing this and that invokes a curse, etc.). So there's truth to this (no, not the MacBeth curse, the tendency of actors to be superstitious)?

Let's see...

Can't say "Macbeth" in the theater
Can't recite lines from Macbeth in a theater
Can't whistle in a theater
Never say "good luck" - love this "break a leg" theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break_a_leg#Bowing
Can't use real money on stage
"Ghost night" (a night the theater is closed so the ghosts can do their plays!)

Probably more that I'm just not thinking about.

[boloboffin]

I respect people's superstitions backstage because it makes life easier. Since a play is a massive psych job anyway, anything that interferes with a person's state of mind or confidence level is unwelcome. Of course it's all confirmation bias bunk. No sense rocking the boat when there's work to be done. Call it professional courtesy.

[JohnG]

That superstition made an entire episode of Blackadder.

What he said:

Enmztm9uMzQ

[CptColumbo]

My old Theatre Prof. would go "Booga Booga" anytime someone brought it up. The only time bad things happened after someone said "MacBeth" was when someone was careless, and that doesn't take the supernatural.

For example: During a production of "The Diary of Anne Frank" someone said the name of the Scottish Play before the curtain. After the show, that person's mother came backstage and fell into the orchestra pit and broke her leg. You could say it was a curse or you could say that she shouldn't have been backstage.

There were also people who thought the black box theatre was haunted, even though it was only 3 months old.

[jmcvann]

Heh. :)
Is that the norm, then, or is it just a few like that?

Somewhere between norm and a few.

[jmcvann]

I respect people's superstitions backstage because it makes life easier. Since a play is a massive psych job anyway, anything that interferes with a person's state of mind or confidence level is unwelcome. Of course it's all confirmation bias bunk. No sense rocking the boat when there's work to be done. Call it professional courtesy.

I agree completely.

[jmcvann]

During a production of "The Diary of Anne Frank" someone said the name of the Scottish Play before the curtain. After the show, that person's mother came backstage and fell into the orchestra pit and broke her leg. You could say it was a curse or you could say that she shouldn't have been backstage.


Was the "ghost light" on? HA!

[ImaginalDisc]

Can't use real money on stage


Actually, this one makes a lot of sense.

[CptColumbo]

Was the "ghost light" on? HA!The house lights were on, but the bac of the stage was really dark and the floor was painted black with no glow tape next to the edge of the pit.

The ghost light is used at our theatre for safety reasons only.

Note to all theatre patrons:
Unless you are a member of the cast and crew you shouldn't be on the stage (front or back), unless you are invited and escorted.

[Redtail]

LOL! I've had cast mates who sneer at any mention of religion freak out at sound of Macbeth. Hell I had professors that would do the same. The ones that really get on my nerves are the ones who get bent out of shape at the curses, but love to play the stage games like "pass the prop" and "freebird".

[jmcvann]

Actually, this one makes a lot of sense.

Well...in the sense that a broke actor might walk off with someone else's money, perhaps. But you're not supposed to use real money because doing so will somehow affect the performance of the play. That makes no sense at all.

[jmcvann]

LOL! I've had cast mates who sneer at any mention of religion freak out at sound of Macbeth. Hell I had professors that would do the same. The ones that really get on my nerves are the ones who get bent out of shape at the curses, but love to play the stage games like "pass the prop" and "freebird".

Never heard of either of those games. Found "pass the prop" via Google. I have to say I'm against the concept of playing games during a show. Interesting way to stay "in the moment," it seems to me. Sheesh! I'm annoyed by actors who come backstage and say: "Bill is in the front row!" What the hell are you doing looking over the crowd! I can honestly say I never pay attention to the audience. I have work to do.

What is "freebird"?

[JohnG]

I remember reading an interview with Christopher Reeve where he mentioned that in some play he was in, he and another famous cast mate (can't remember who, Robin Williams, maybe?) tried to see how often they could work the word 'banana' into their dialogue without the audience catching on. Not very professional, I suppose, but I would've loved to have seen that performance.

[Redtail]

Never heard of either of those games. Found "pass the prop" via Google. I have to say I'm against the concept of playing games during a show. Interesting way to stay "in the moment," it seems to me. Sheesh! I'm annoyed by actors who come backstage and say: "Bill is in the front row!" What the hell are you doing looking over the crowd! I can honestly say I never pay attention to the audience. I have work to do.

What is "freebird"?

I'd never heard of it either until I got to grad school. Since then I've seen two people fired for playing it.

Freebird, is when someone stand naked in the wings (with out there being a nude scene in the show or it being a quick change) so that the actors on stage can see them. Oddly enough, the first time I saw this was during a run of Macbeth. (and yes they insisted on calling it "The Scottish Play".)

[CptColumbo]

I'd never heard of it either until I got to grad school. Since then I've seen two people fired for playing it.

Freebird, is when someone stand naked in the wings (with out there being a nude scene in the show or it being a quick change) so that the actors on stage can see them. Oddly enough, the first time I saw this was during a run of Macbeth. (and yes they insisted on calling it "The Scottish Play".)I was once playing Dr. Boyle in "Prelude to a Kiss." In my first scene I embarrass my daughter (Rita) by showing her new boyfriend (Peter) an old war wound. There was supposed to be a blackout as I drop my pants, and for some reason the blackout kept coming later and later. Finally, I wrote a message on my [rule 10] to the actor playing Peter. He's on stage for the whole act so I didn't find out if he saw it until intermission. He was surprised I was able to write so legibly on my own [rule 10].

[Euromutt]

There's some superstition in British panto that the last line of the piece should not be spoken during rehearsals, and in one production I was in, the director really subscribed to every theatrical superstition you could mention (she was into astrology, reiki and feng shui as well, among other things). However, the last line came in the middle of the big song-and-dance finale, and the choreographer was not a "panto luvvie" (though he was a professional dancer, so he probably had his own idiosyncracies).

During one music/dance rehearsal, the director was having the actor count out loud instead of saying the line, but at some point, the choreographer said (in so many words) "sod this, I need to know how long the actual line takes to say" and had the actor speak the line. The director was speechless (or at least, affecting speechlessness) at this blatant breach of protocol, though it only lasted for a few seconds before I (standing next to her) shouted to the choreographer
"Why don't you have him say 'Macbeth' a few times while you're at it?"
The director actually slapped the back of my head, which was fair enough since I was deliberately trying to get her goat.

Personally, I have little patience for most theatrical superstitions, the exception being the ones that aren't actually superstitions, but people have forgotten why. The prime example is the one of not whistling in the theatre. I've been told this dates back to when stagehands would use coded whistles to signal set changes, so whistling on or ear the stage might bring a piece of scenery or a counterweight crashing down on some unfortunate's head. Now, admittedly, neither as an actor, a stagehand or a stage manager have I ever been in a theatre where whistles were still used (in this era of headsets and flashlights) but I do refrain from whistling in the theatre in the same way I observe Jeff Cooper's "Four Rules" of firearm safety when handling a toy firearm. It's technically unnecessary, but it's a good habit to ingrain to avoid confusion should you ever find yourself handling the real thing.

[Redtail]

I was once playing Dr. Boyle in "Prelude to a Kiss." In my first scene I embarrass my daughter (Rita) by showing her new boyfriend (Peter) an old war wound. There was supposed to be a blackout as I drop my pants, and for some reason the blackout kept coming later and later. Finally, I wrote a message on my [rule 10] to the actor playing Peter. He's on stage for the whole act so I didn't find out if he saw it until intermission. He was surprised I was able to write so legibly on my own [rule 10].

Bravo sir!

Personally, I have little patience for most theatrical superstitions, the exception being the ones that aren't actually superstitions, but people have forgotten why. The prime example is the one of not whistling in the theatre. I've been told this dates back to when stagehands would use coded whistles to signal set changes, so whistling on or ear the stage might bring a piece of scenery or a counterweight crashing down on some unfortunate's head. Now, admittedly, neither as an actor, a stagehand or a stage manager have I ever been in a theatre where whistles were still used (in this era of headsets and flashlights) but I do refrain from whistling in the theatre in the same way I observe Jeff Cooper's "Four Rules" of firearm safety when handling a toy firearm. It's technically unnecessary, but it's a good habit to ingrain to avoid confusion should you ever find yourself handling the real thing.

Agreed.

[Euromutt]

I remember reading an interview with Christopher Reeve where he mentioned that in some play he was in, he and another famous cast mate [...] tried to see how often they could work the word 'banana' into their dialogue without the audience catching on.
Heh. During my first stint ever as a stage manager (last February), the cast agreed that each of them would try to sneak the word "foible" into their lines at some point in the script. Admittedly, this was I Love You, You're Perfect, Now Change which has a cast of four, so it wasn't too intense, but my LBO and I were exchanging a few "WTF?"s as a result.

Oddly enough, the first time I saw this was during a run of Macbeth. (and yes they insisted on calling it "The Scottish Play".)
Huh? I'm fairly certain it's okay to say "Macbeth" in the rehearsal space and theater when you're actually putting on Macbeth.

[qwints]

How much of actor superstition is pure fun and how much is actual fear?

My experience in the few plays I did in college was that the superstitions were silly things to keep people's minds off being nervous or ways to vent nervous energy.

[Redtail]

Heh. During my first stint ever as a stage manager (last February), the cast agreed that each of them would try to sneak the word "foible" into their lines at some point in the script. Admittedly, this was I Love You, You're Perfect, Now Change which has a cast of four, so it wasn't too intense, but my LBO and I were exchanging a few "WTF?"s as a result.


[quote]Huh? I'm fairly certain it's okay to say "Macbeth" in the rehearsal space and theater when you're actually putting on Macbeth.

Only when it involved the lines or the actual show. If someone asked a question like "Ok, so when Macbeth crosses.." ... is about as far as they got before being cut off with grunts and hisses.

Macduff and I (Seyton) after every warm up would look at each other giggle and whisper "Maaaacbeeeeeth!"

[CptColumbo]

How much of actor superstition is pure fun and how much is actual fear?

My experience in the few plays I did in college was that the superstitions were silly things to keep people's minds off being nervous or ways to vent nervous energy.
I think it has become more of a tradition than a superstition.

[hgc]

My theory for why actors may be more than average supersticious: They thrive on drama, which they get plenty of when they're working. But even in their own lives, they like drama. With supersticion, you can invent drama out of thin air. How on Earth did someone come to the conclusion that spinning and spitting lifted a curse? You have to really want to be hysterical about something to go with that one.

[gumboot]

I adhere to most of these "superstitions", as do all of the other actors I've worked with, but none of us, far as I'm aware, think of them as serious threats to our well being. They're tradition and they're part of what makes actors feel like they belong to a close-knit special group. It identifies you as a member of that small community of theatre folk. It's particularly important to newcomers to theatre because they learn these "secrets" off the old hands. It helps to reinforce the "magic" of the theatre, and frankly without that "magic" it wouldn't work. I don't believe in magic, but something special and unique happens when a group of random people pull together to put on a stage production. Little things like this are the glue that bind that team together through what can be some very stormy sailing.

I find every sub-culture has their own little traditions and habits, and they're completely harmless, and often vital to the functioning of the sub-culture, and I wouldn't consider them woo. The film industry, like theatre, is full of them. Another sub-culture that's packed to the rim with this sort of thing is the military.

As mentioned, some of them actually have pretty sensible origins. Another is never allowing yourself to be seen by audience members in costume/make up (except on stage, obviously). Theatre is an illusion, and things like that break the illusion, so they're taboo.

As for saying MacBeth however (I think writing it is okay :D), Euromutt is quite right, the taboo doesn't apply if you're actually doing MacBeth, it only applies when you're rehearsing or performing something else. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise just doesn't know their superstitions.

As for the spitting and spinning around thing, I believe that's entirely an invention of Blackadder. I've never in my life come across an actor that even suggested doing such a thing.

[gumboot]

For anyone who is interested the origin of the MacBeth curse is allegedly that Shakespeare used the words of a real witch's spell in the play, and the coven he took it from were offended by this and cursed the play.

There's some theories as to why this could have been reinforced - for example MacBeth could be used as a "back up" play if something drastic happened like an actor died, because it requires fewer actors and has less lines to learn than most plays. Alternatively, there's some correlation between theatres going out of business and putting on MacBeth as their last production - possibly either the very popular play was put on in an attempt to save a theatre in trouble, or alternatively the expense of putting on MacBeth bankrupted the theatre.

Another final consideration is that MacBeth involves quite a substantial amount of fighting and opportunities for injury, a potential explanation for its bad reputation (I myself was badly injured during a sword fight while doing MacBeth, and at a Dress Rehearsal one of the blades shattered and flung into what would have been the audience).

There's an aspect of hazing involved in older theatre members telling young members about terrible accidents etc in the past, relating to the production.

There's some degree of confirmation bias in this, I am sure. Theatre's an oddly dangerous activity (it's probably due to the emotion involved combined with the immediacy of it and being in the dark). I've been quite badly injured during either a performance or rehearsal of every single production I have ever done. But due to the mythology around it, the injury during MacBeth stands out.

[RedIbis]

No capital B for Macbeth.

[Basilio]

I'm also amazed when I'm working with "adults" (directing or performing) that they even get wound-up with "Macbeth" if we're at the rehearsal facility, miles away from the theatre. I think if you have a long running play (more than a weekend) that there is a chance for some non-intrusive "game" to keep the edge on, but nothing that distracts your fellow actors, or is noticed by the audience. A fun fact, during the original run of Gilbert & Sullivan's MIKADO, one of the main actors borrowed cab fare from another, and spent at least week paying her back, penny by penny, on stage every night.

[gumboot]

No capital B for Macbeth.


Ack. Quite right. :) I shall spin around multiple times and spit over my shoulder to counter my failings. :D

[marksman]

No capital B for Macbeth.

So, does it invoke the curse if you say it capitalized, or only if you say it without the capitalization. :)

[Vic Vega]

My signature says it all.

Do they skip that line in the play or do they read it? Don't they realize that they have the "eye of childhood" if they believe this nonsense?

[dudalb]

I don't know how much of The Macbeth Foklore is taken seriously and how much of it is an huge kind of in joke.

[dudalb]

I remember reading an interview with Christopher Reeve where he mentioned that in some play he was in, he and another famous cast mate (can't remember who, Robin Williams, maybe?) tried to see how often they could work the word 'banana' into their dialogue without the audience catching on. Not very professional, I suppose, but I would've loved to have seen that performance.


That kind of stuff goes on all the time,and I think it is not so much woo, as somebody being bored as hell with a role after a number of performances.

[CptColumbo]

That kind of stuff goes on all the time,and I think it is not so much woo, as somebody being bored as hell with a role after a number of performances.When I was in a production of "Brigadoon" the director during a pickup rehearsal (before our third week of performances began) said he noticed a lack of rhubarb and energy during the group scenes. The next night he had to come back and tell us he didn't want us to literally say "rhubarb" during those scenes.

I was actually saying "watermelon cantalope." :)