Sean Fitzgerald: The Truther Who Killed His Father

[Brainster]

This is not a funny story. Last week, a 9-11 Truther murdered his own father (http://www.koaa.com/aaaa_top_stories/x1589516403/Doctors-son-I-killed-my-own-father-in-front-of-my-mother) while he slept in bed.

The son of a prominent Colorado Springs doctor, who's accused of stabbing his father to death, is under suicide watch. Dr. Edward Fitzgerald was killed in his own home early Thursday morning, and now more disturbing details about this shocking crime are coming to light.

The probable cause affidavit shows that 36-year-old Sean Fitzgerald told police he stabbed his dad to death while his mom slept in the same bed.

Fitzgerald was a 9-11 Troofer (http://www.koaa.com/aaaa_top_stories/x1589516464/Inside-the-mind-of-a-man-accused-of-killing-his-father) and a member of We Are Change/Colorado Visibility 9-11:

"We're all in shock, those of us who know him are in complete shock that this could've happened," said Fran Sure, who knows Sean Fitzgerald through Colorado 9/11 Visibility. Fitzgerald was active in the group, which believes the government's not telling the truth about what happened on 9/11.

Fitzgerald was reportedly in Thailand earlier this month, when his paranoia (http://www.jackbloodforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21076) got the better of him:

Sean has been outspoken in Thailand about 9/11 information that contradicts the official story. Lately, he has clearly noticed that he was being followed by people he thinks are Thai military intelligence. This morning as he was riding his bicycle, Sean was chased by at least two suspicious, official looking vehicles and in the process of trying to elude them, was hit head-on by a truck. He thinks that this incident was not accidental.

He is now being treated in the Mae Sot Hospital with a spinal injury. He is rational and thinking clearly. He thinks that at any moment, he could be arrested, as military intelligence personnel have been entering his room, observing him, and then leaving. This happened once during this interview.

The interview in question is with 9-11 Visibility/Michael Wolsey and can be downloaded here (http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_sean_fitzgerald.mp3).

So his father collected him from Thailand and brought him home to recuperate. And got stabbed to death for his troubles.

[WildCat]

Yet more evidence that mental illness and being a truther go hand in hand.

[A W Smith]

Yet more evidence that mental illness and being a truther go hand in hand.


If he received a closed head injury when that truck hit him that can make an already paranoid nut act even crazier. Or maybe he had a previous closed head injury to begin with?

[Horatius]

If he received a closed head injury when that truck hit him that can make an already paranoid nut act even crazier. Or maybe he had a previous closed head injury to begin with?

http://www.jackbloodforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=116142#p116142

This seems to be from a friend of his:

Sean was my friend for nearly 30 years. In the last few years he has become increasingly paranoid, constantly rambling on about some kind of conspiracy.



I've submitted this to the "What's The Harm?" site.

[DGM]

http://www.jackbloodforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=116142#p116142

This seems to be from a friend of his:




I've submitted this to the "What's The Harm?" site.
From the same post:
So you tell me what kind of conspiracy was going on here? Did the Thai police brainwash Sean and make him murder his dad? Or did he imagine the entire thing because he was delusional, paranoid and psychotic? What do you think is more likely?

Get a grip people. Everyone is not out to get you. You are likely insignificant regardless of your political views. Do you really think the government gives one iota about your opinion?
http://www.jackbloodforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=116142#p116142



This was one disturbed individual and personally I find no reason to equate this to others that are (in most likelihood) just misguided.

Just my $.02

[T.A.M.]

Yet more evidence that mental illness and being a truther go hand in hand.

Not fair. In order to prove this, one must have data to prove that incident of mental illness amongst the sub group who believe the USG helped carry out 9/11 is higher than that seen in the general populous.

You know better than to use one anecdote, one example, to extrapolate such a thing. Such a study, comparing the rates of mental illness of the general pop versus those calling themselves "truthers", would be VERY interesting.

All that said, it is a disturbing story. My thought, is that the same mental illness that lead him to this tragic end, made him suceptible to the woo. If that is what you meant, then I agree.

TAM:)

[WildCat]

Not fair. In order to prove this, one must have data to prove that incident of mental illness amongst the sub group who believe the USG helped carry out 9/11 is higher than that seen in the general populous.
I certainly am not going to commission a study, but it is apparent that there is a lot of mental illness amongst truthers. See Judy Wood, Ace Baker, that Canadian guy Jeff who's always making the phone calls (who admitted he was off his meds), certain posters here which forum rules prevent me from naming but clearly have issues.

In the internet age, paranoid schizophrenics are just a click away from having their delusions validated by all the kook web sites that reassure them that the government really is out to get them.

Just IMHO of course, YMMV.

[Drudgewire]

The day we all knew was coming is here.

And for those who said "I bet you guys will gloat," the only feelings I have are a heavy mix of sadness and nausea. :(

[Brainster]

Not fair. In order to prove this, one must have data to prove that incident of mental illness amongst the sub group who believe the USG helped carry out 9/11 is higher than that seen in the general populous.

Is there any real doubt left here? Even absent a study?

I'm with Drudgewire; I'm feeling quite nauseated right now.

[Pardalis]

Truthers will probably spin this as some kind of mind control conspiracy à la "Manchurian Candidate".

[A W Smith]

I that Canadian guy Jeff who's always making the phone calls (who admitted he was off his meds),

He was prescribed meds? That explains the incident where he was caught throwing rocks at a masonic lodge and had to appear in court. or magistrate or whatever they call them up there. Wonder how that worked out?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

He is being framed as part of the conspiracy to cover up the government's complicity in 9/11. He was getting too close to the truth. A modern day Lee Harvey Oswald.


Or something. :boggled:

[T.A.M.]

I certainly am not going to commission a study, but it is apparent that there is a lot of mental illness amongst truthers. See Judy Wood, Ace Baker, that Canadian guy Jeff who's always making the phone calls (who admitted he was off his meds), certain posters here which forum rules prevent me from naming but clearly have issues.

In the internet age, paranoid schizophrenics are just a click away from having their delusions validated by all the kook web sites that reassure them that the government really is out to get them.

Just IMHO of course, YMMV.

I think you may be right, I was just tryin to keep us honest (I am just in a crabby mood to be honest). The trouble is we do not have proof, so it is only our opinion. I think the internet has led to much easier visibility of the mentally ill, where as prior they would have kept to themselves, or in severe cases (as they still are) be institutionalized.

If anything, the internet has been a blessing and a curse for the mentally ill.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

The day we all knew was coming is here.

And for those who said "I bet you guys will gloat," the only feelings I have are a heavy mix of sadness and nausea. :(

Is there any real doubt left here? Even absent a study?

I'm with Drudgewire; I'm feeling quite nauseated right now.

And if one of our JREFer Debunkers suddenly lost it, and went postal on his parents, or other relative, would we say it was because he was a skeptic?

I guess that is my point. This was a clear case of mental illness and tragedy. Now if the investigation proves that this fellow killed his parent because he felt his dad was part of a 9/11 CT, or was guilty through not believing in an inside job, then the remark is more valid. Otherwise, it is simply a tragedy...his belief in the woo only secondary.

Get my drift?

TAM:)

[UNLoVedRebel]

Not fair. In order to prove this, one must have data to prove that incident of mental illness amongst the sub group who believe the USG helped carry out 9/11 is higher than that seen in the general populous.


Well, we know people who believe the USG did 9/11 are more likely to be less educated than the general population and make less money and are working class or unemployed. And we know those groups have a higher percentage of being mentally ill than the rest of the population. It may not be very robust, but it's a starting point.

[T.A.M.]

Well, we know people who believe the USG did 9/11 are more likely to be less educated than the general population and make less money and are working class or unemployed. And we know those groups have a higher percentage of being mentally ill than the rest of the population. It may not be very robust, but it's a starting point.

All you need to do is provide me with the stats (a study, or a quote from one) that shows that as a group those who believe 9/11 was an inside job are less educated or make less money than the gen pop. I am not saying it isn't true, I suspect it maybe, but I have no proof of it.

Guys, I am not purposely trying to be oppositional here, but since we demand evidence from the truthers (and rightfully so), should we not demand such evidence of ourselves, if we are to state something as fact rather than just opinion.

TAM:)

[Drudgewire]

And if one of our JREFer Debunkers suddenly lost it, and went postal on his parents, or other relative, would we say it was because he was a skeptic?

I guess that is my point. This was a clear case of mental illness and tragedy. Now if the investigation proves that this fellow killed his parent because he felt his dad was part of a 9/11 CT, or was guilty through not believing in an inside job, then the remark is more valid. Otherwise, it is simply a tragedy...his belief in the woo only secondary.

Get my drift?


I absolutely get your drift, and have no doubt whatsoever mental illness was the overriding factor here. Problem is I have equally little doubt that a very sizeable percentage of twoofers are mentally ill, and the "movement" not only fuels their delusions, but validates and embraces them.

I don't mean to suggest that anything can really be done to prevent people from going down that road, or that his disease was a result of joining the "movement." What I am saying is he won't be the only one whose journey ends with innocent blood being shed. :(

[UNLoVedRebel]

All you need to do is provide me with the stats (a study, or a quote from one) that shows that as a group those who believe 9/11 was an inside job are less educated or make less money than the gen pop. I am not saying it isn't true, I suspect it maybe, but I have no proof of it.

Guys, I am not purposely trying to be oppositional here, but since we demand evidence from the truthers (and rightfully so), should we not demand such evidence of ourselves, if we are to state something as fact rather than just opinion.

TAM:)

Media Use, Social Structure, and Belief in 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
Stempel, Hargrove, Stempel III
J&MC Quarterly
Vol. 84, No. 2
Summer 2007
353-372

[Brainster]

All you need to do is provide me with the stats (a study, or a quote from one) that shows that as a group those who believe 9/11 was an inside job are less educated or make less money than the gen pop. I am not saying it isn't true, I suspect it maybe, but I have no proof of it.

Guys, I am not purposely trying to be oppositional here, but since we demand evidence from the truthers (and rightfully so), should we not demand such evidence of ourselves, if we are to state something as fact rather than just opinion.

TAM:)

I understand what you're saying; saying this guy's a paranoid schizophrenic without training and without a real examination is arguably the equivalent of saying "I don't need to know structural engineering to recognize that WTC-7 was a controlled demolition."

Reasonable point.

[parky76]

This is a horrible story. I hope all truthers will read this and think hard.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Then there's this gem, which can be found, suspiciously, on 911truth.org

www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

[UNLoVedRebel]

If you can't get the full article I cited, the survey is available online. It's the 2006 Ohio-Scripps poll.

For further clarification, the poll was taken in October 2006, the article was published in Summer 2007 in the J&MC Quarterly.

[Horatius]

..., and the "movement" not only fuels their delusions, but validates and embraces them.





That's the key for me. We can't say whether his trutherism was a cause or an effect of his condition, but I think it's clear that hanging out with a bunch of people who promote ideas about drugs being "brainwashing" and all that crap couldn't possibly have been good for him. Maybe if he hadn't been embraced by the truth movement, people like his friend I quoted above might have been able to get him to accept treatment.

Instead, he kept getting support and encouragement from people who approved of his paranoid fantasies. It's not hard to see where that would likely lead.

[parky76]

any time a person becomes involved with a movement that thrives on conspiratorial thinking and deep paranoia, and that person commits a violent act, that movement or ideology does bare some responcibility for those actions.

i am not saying, anyone other then the killer should be held accountable for the crime, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre and then say "I didnt do it" when someone dies in the ensuing stampede.

[A W Smith]

hey what about that guy back in 2002 who invaded the bohemian grove in the middle of the night, set fire to a building the next morning, was wearing a bullet proof vest. a rubber skeleton mask, a semi automatic weapon, a 45 hand gun, a sword and a bow? you know. the one who was egged on by Alex Jones and who is now serving 11 years as a felon? Did you know he was prepared to fire upon anyone who confronted him? How lucky is that that a few people weren't murdered even back then? the only reason he didn't fire upon the police that confronted him was that they looked official. his words. he planned it for a year even relocating to the west coast.

[Mr. Skinny]

any time a person becomes involved with a movement that thrives on conspiratorial thinking and deep paranoia, and that person commits a violent act, that movement or ideology does bare some responcibility for those actions.
A movement, even if it "thrives on conspiratorial thinking and deep paranoia" is not responsible for the actions of it's members, unless, of course you can show that said movement is promoting "killing your relatives in their sleep".

For now, I'll assume this is just your personal opinion, unless you're willing to cite a source for this belief.

i am not saying, anyone other then the killer should be held accountable for the crime, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre and then say "I didnt do it" when someone dies in the ensuing stampede.
I don't understand your analogy.

[parky76]

so much for the myth of the 100% peaceful society of 9-11 truthers.

though, I have to say, last wednesday i had an argument with a conspiracy theorist at a bar, and i wanted to break his face.

=)

[parky76]

A movement, even if it "thrives on conspiratorial thinking and deep paranoia" is not responsible for the actions of it's members, unless, of course you can show that said movement is promoting "killing your relatives in their sleep".

.

i meant morally responsible...not legally. that is unless, ofcourse, they do tell their followers "our struggle may indeed lead to violence and families being torn apart".

[Mr. Skinny]

i meant morally responsible...not legally. that is unless, ofcourse, they do tell their followers "our struggle may indeed lead to violence and families being torn apart".
I still disagree with ya. Not morally responsible either, unless directly preaching this action to someone they knew was emotionally unstable.

Mostly, I agree with TAM. No know reason to tie his actions to his truther status/participation. For all I know, his dad didn't give him a video game he wanted for Christmas one year, and he's hated him ever since *shrug*.

[Pardalis]

And if one of our JREFer Debunkers suddenly lost it, and went postal on his parents, or other relative, would we say it was because he was a skeptic?

I get your point but it is not a valid one. You will find very few if no skeptics at all who are paranoïacs, by definition.

[parky76]

its the content and indoctrination of the medium that is important.

if a guy who is a member of the Democratic party goes out and kills his cat....i really dont blaim the democratic party. we love animals. =)

[Drudgewire]

Mostly, I agree with TAM. No know reason to tie his actions to his truther status/participation. For all I know, his dad didn't give him a video game he wanted for Christmas one year, and he's hated him ever since *shrug*.

Exactly. Bottom liine is there are always going to be things which "cause" people to act violently: Be it religious text, video games, pornography (Ted Bundy's pre-execution excuse), people eating meat, rock music, or the 9/11 truth movement.

While it's certainly possible any one of these may have sent someone over the edge, at the end of the day it's still the weakness/illness of the individual which was ultimately responsible rather than some "trigger" opponents of whatever is being blamed would like to point their finger at as the cause.

I DO think his descent into the truth movement ultimately fueled the fire leading to this tragedy, but thousands (well a couple of thousand) of people a day read and believe the same rot he immersed himself in yet somehow manage to NOT kill their parents or anyone else.

Did reading and falling into the pit of stupidity known as the truth movement lead to this horrible event? That can be debated forever. But what I'm much more sure about is it never instructed him to commit violence on anyone. That was a product of nothing but his disease.

[T.A.M.]

Media Use, Social Structure, and Belief in 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
Stempel, Hargrove, Stempel III
J&MC Quarterly
Vol. 84, No. 2
Summer 2007
353-372

While I appreciate the reference, do you happen to have an online copy you can quote from. I would really hate to have to buy a subscription to see.

TAM;)

[UNLoVedRebel]

While I appreciate the reference, do you happen to have an online copy you can quote from. I would really hate to have to buy a subscription to see.

TAM;)

Sure, I'll get back to you on that, though. We can crunch some numbers later. In the mean time, the Zogby poll on 911truth.org backs up what I said. It has much of the same content as the the Ohio-Scripps poll, but is less robust.

[T.A.M.]

That's the key for me. We can't say whether his trutherism was a cause or an effect of his condition, but I think it's clear that hanging out with a bunch of people who promote ideas about drugs being "brainwashing" and all that crap couldn't possibly have been good for him. Maybe if he hadn't been embraced by the truth movement, people like his friend I quoted above might have been able to get him to accept treatment.

Instead, he kept getting support and encouragement from people who approved of his paranoid fantasies. It's not hard to see where that would likely lead.

exactly horatius. This was at least part of my point. And I agree, if (which may very well be the case) he was/is mentally ill, then the setting of "9/11 trutherism" is far from a positive environment for him.

I guess what I am hoping not to see, is for people here to blame the "truth movement" for his actions, unless there is proof that it was his belief in such that fueled him, and even then, I would hesitate.

For example, as I said earlier, if someone here, an atheist who defends his views at JREF for instance, did the same thing, would we be quick to jump and say, perhaps, that it was his belief in atheism that caused him to kill because he had no fear of eternal damnation?

Then, even if it was found that atheism was the promoting factor, should that in turn make all those who defend atheism on this board guilty?

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

I get your point but it is not a valid one. You will find very few if no skeptics at all who are paranoïacs, by definition.

does one have to be a paranoiac to kill? We are talking about motive or motivating factors, are we not? The indirect suggestion that I am hoping people are not making (and hence my reason for arguing) is that the believe in 9/11 truth made him do it.

As I said in my example above, if an atheist were to kill his parent, because the parent pissed him off, and fearing no eternal damnation, the fellow committed murder, would atheism be to blame? would those who defend atheism (like fellow truthers) be to blame?

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Exactly. Bottom liine is there are always going to be things which "cause" people to act violently: Be it religious text, video games, pornography (Ted Bundy's pre-execution excuse), people eating meat, rock music, or the 9/11 truth movement.

While it's certainly possible any one of these may have sent someone over the edge, at the end of the day it's still the weakness/illness of the individual which was ultimately responsible rather than some "trigger" opponents of whatever is being blamed would like to point their finger at as the cause.

I DO think his descent into the truth movement ultimately fueled the fire leading to this tragedy, but thousands (well a couple of thousand) of people a day read and believe the same rot he immersed himself in yet somehow manage to NOT kill their parents or anyone else.

Did reading and falling into the pit of stupidity known as the truth movement lead to this horrible event? That can be debated forever. But what I'm much more sure about is it never instructed him to commit violence on anyone. That was a product of nothing but his disease.

We seem to be mostly in agreement here.

TAM:)

[Drudgewire]

We seem to be mostly in agreement here.

TAM:)


We are a shocking amount of the time considering you're a well-spoken doctor and I'm a proud scumbag. :D

[PhantomWolf]

While certainly a sad story, until a motive is annouced I'm certainly not going to chalk it up to a 9/11 CT. While it is an obvious candidate, perhaps rather then believing his dad was really a shapeshifting alien reptile replacement sent to spy on him because he was close to breaking the 9/11 Conspriacy, when he hit his head in Thailand he "remembered" that his dad abused when he was a kid and he decided to get revenge. I say we wait till the facts are in and then call it.

[T.A.M.]

Then there's this gem, which can be found, suspiciously, on 911truth.org

www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf

Very interesting poll...thanks for the link.

Apparently if you shop at walmart you are less likely to want to impeach bush and cheney, but if you never do (shop at walmart), you are much more likely to want to (impeach both).

Income - Yes, it does seem the income stats support impeachment less as income goes up.

Education level - yup, according to that study, the largest group for LIHOP/MIHOP combo is High School Level Education. Less than High School, and more than High School seem more likely to believe the official version.


So should we also extrapolate reasons why So few Hispanics believe the official story????????

Only about 1/4 of Hispanics believe the official version, according to the poll. And only about 1/3 of Asians. Nearly 7/10 Whites believe it.

Since we are examining this poll for extrapolation purposes, anyone dare to touch those findings????

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

apparently 7/10 married people believe the official story, whereas only 4/10 single people do.

I knew it was the damn singles feeding the fire of twoof!! Damn you singles...damn you to hell.

TAM;)

[Drudgewire]

apparently 7/10 married people believe the official story, whereas only 4/10 single people do.

I knew it was the damn singles feeding the fire of twoof!! Damn you singles...damn you to hell.

TAM;)


It's all Ashley Tisdale's fault. If she'd just accept my proposal rather than taking out restraining orders I could be part of the solution instead of the problem.
http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/colbert.gif

[UNLoVedRebel]

Income - Yes, it does seem the income stats support impeachment less as income goes up.



Question 402 is the question...in question. Since 402, the 'CT' question, did nothing to help their case, truthers focused on 401, the 'impeachment' question. We are interested, mostly, in 402.

[Brainster]

You can take a look at the arrest affidavit here (http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/34911619.html). About the only new thing there is that his parents were asleep when he burst in on them and stabbed his dad.

Oddly enough when the whole Thailand thing went down, his father actually called into Alex Jones' show (November 4, 2008). I partially transcribed the segment at SLC:

Alex: Ed in Colorado, go ahead sir.

Ed: (garbled) show and he's a big supporter of you, and he's in trouble. He's in Thailand.

Alex: Who's a big supporter?

Ed: My son, Sean Fitzgerald. He's a member of Colorado 9-11 Visionaries (sic) and We Are Change.

Alex: Yeah, they're great folks, what's up? What's happening?

Ed: He's in Thailand and he's been chased by paramilitary police and he's taken refuge in a medical clinic in My Sa (phonetic) Thailand and he called me and asked me to call you. He called me about an hour ago. I been on... I called you immediately--

Alex: Well, how are we going to help him in Thailand in a medical clinic?

Ed: He thought maybe there's some way you could call attention to his--

Alex: I've got a sneaking suspicion he was caught taking videotape of things in a country that isn't so free.

Ed: No, he's a stay-at-home dad with a son and his wife's--

Alex: No, I'm not saying your son's bad, I'm just--can't imagine why they're after him.

Ed: Is there anything that you can do?

Alex: Well, I mean, what's the specifics?

Ed: He said that last night he got chased by some paramilitaries and got injured and he was taken to the medical clinic where his wife works and now he's afraid to go out of there.

Alex: Yeah, he's being chased by the youth corps [Refers to Jones' nutty belief that Barack Obama is going to institute a youth corps in the United States that's going to be paramilitary in nature]. One of their local militia brigades.

Ed: I--

Alex: You want to tell people where the clinic is? Have you called the US embassy?

Ed: No, I haven't.

We Are Change Colorado had reported the Thailand problems on their website. They've scrubbed that, but Google still has it in cache (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:_bn2K3tqN28J:wearechangecolorado.or g/2008/11/06/sean-fitzgerald-former-wacc-member-in-danger-in-thailand/+%22Sean+Fitzgerald%22+We+Are+Change&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us):

Hello All,

I have just spoken with Allison, Sean’s wife, and received an email from Sean’s dad. Sean, Allison, and their six-year old son, Ciaran, are now at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok. Sean is in the ICU and is in need of an MRI before we can know his prognosis. We are very concerned, yet also hopeful that he will be able to heal from his spinal injury and regain all movement.

Sean was extremely concerned about the transport from the Mae Sot General Hospital to Bangkok, and wanted me to record a conversation between us during this transport, so if anything threatening happened, it would be on record. But, evidently, he got to Bangkok without incident while I was getting the recording set-up in place.

Due to the discussion I had with Alex Jones on his show Tuesday, several 9/11 activists from around the country have contacted me and graciously offered help. I suggest you first go to Michael Wolsey’s blog at http://visibility911.com/ or http://www.911blogger.com/node/18408 to listen to Sean’s interview with Michael Wolsey. From this interview, you will understand the details of his situation better and that there appears reason for concern for his welfare.

Any mention of the interview with Wolsey is gone from visibility911.com, and the page cited at 9-11 Blogger has similarly been wiped clean. It is quite apparent that the Troofers are trying to flush this down the memory hole.

[Drudgewire]

Is Alex suggesting the guy was molesting kids? To his father? With zero evidence or knowledge of the situation at all?

I really hope I'm misinterpreting the "videotaping things in Thailand" comment.

[Brainster]

Is Alex suggesting the guy was molesting kids? To his father? With zero evidence or knowledge of the situation at all?

I really hope I'm misinterpreting the "videotaping things in Thailand" comment.

No, I don't think that's what Alex was implying at all. He may have been implying that the son was doing a little Troof-squadding a la Luke Rudkowski and gotten slammed around by some paramilitary types in Thailand. Remember, that's what the We Are Change folks are most famed for doing. Well, that, and beating up girls in wheelchairs.

[Drudgewire]

No, I don't think that's what Alex was implying at all. He may have been implying that the son was doing a little Troof-squadding a la Luke Rudkowski and gotten slammed around by some paramilitary types in Thailand. Remember, that's what the We Are Change folks are most famed for doing. Well, that, and beating up girls in wheelchairs.


OK, that puts my mind at ease a little. Not that this is a particularly "mind-easing" thread.

[Walter Ego]

Colorado TV station KOOA did a report on the story. The 9/11 Truth connection is played up. Here's a flash video of the story.

http://static.koaa.zope.net/includes/video/480x400_zope.swf?cat=zog&id=x1589516464

(If someone can download this video and put the file on rapidshare or megaupload it will be greatly appreciated. If you have the premium RealPlayer, you can download it by right clicking on the video when it begins to play.)

This is Fitzgerald at his arraignment wearing some sort of restraint. He is (or was) on a suicide watch in the county lockup.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/2284549308e1699a5b.bmp (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14381)

[T.A.M.]

This is just sad...a sad, sad story. The man has a wife and kid.

Very, very sad.

TAM:)

[Tweeter]

To bad most debunkers remain anonymous, im sure theres quite a few skeletons in their closets.

[Drudgewire]

To bad most debunkers remain anonymous, im sure theres quite a few skeletons in their closets.


Great point. BTW, I sure bet you got teased a lot in school with a real name like "Tweeter." :rolleyes:

[MarkyX]

To bad most debunkers remain anonymous, im sure theres quite a few skeletons in their closets.

Yeah because I'm sure the vast majority of us stabbed our parents in their sleep yet somehow we are still able to post here.

You're one sick ****.

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

I remember hearing this guys dad call into the Alex Jones show and Alex being rude and short with the guy. It's really weird that this turned out to be true because I thought it was just another paranoid caller. I hope this doesn't get spun into a CT, as was mentioned before. Very sad indeed.

[CHF]

I have equally little doubt that a very sizeable percentage of twoofers are mentally ill, and the "movement" not only fuels their delusions, but validates and embraces them.

That's the main issue I have with cults like the TM. When someone surrounds themselves with crazy people it can certainly feed into their own craziness.

So while Sean Fitzgerald being a truther probably didn't cause this tragedy, it sure as hell couldn't have helped matters much.

[Brainster]

I remember hearing this guys dad call into the Alex Jones show and Alex being rude and short with the guy. It's really weird that this turned out to be true because I thought it was just another paranoid caller. I hope this doesn't get spun into a CT, as was mentioned before. Very sad indeed.

Jones also every now and then makes a comment about how people calling into his show are somehow safe from the New World Order, because he's so famous that they couldn't possibly kill somebody who called his show. He offered me sanctuary when some fruitcake started a blog claiming to be me, that supposedly revealed the Troof behind Screw Loose Change (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/03/blogger-is-always-last-to-know.html). Alex also made the same offer to Mike the EMT at one point.

[Walter Ego]

I remember hearing this guys dad call into the Alex Jones show and Alex being rude and short with the guy. It's really weird that this turned out to be true because I thought it was just another paranoid caller. I hope this doesn't get spun into a CT, as was mentioned before. Very sad indeed.

Here's the late Dr. Fitzgerald's call to Alex Jones on 11-04-08... Election Day. It's about three minutes and is in the WMA (Windows Media Audio) format.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F67YKL8M

The call was bizarre in its original context because Jones has been ranting about the evil American government for over an hour and the only advice he can give Dr. Fitzgerald is to “call the American embassy,” a branch of the same NWO fascist state he’s been blathering about. Then he goes back to his rant.

The only reason Dr. Fitzgerald called AJ is that Sean wanted him to. Sean Fitzgerald’s call to the truther podcast show is still available here (http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_sean_fitzgerald.mp3) and is quite poignant.

Sean seems desperate to get himself or his story on Jones’ show, an action he believes will rescue him from the imagined danger he thinks he is in. The grim irony is that he murdered his father a few weeks later, the man who was able to get a few minutes on Jones' show, the man who went to Thailand and did "save" him and did get him back home.

[Pardalis]

The call was bizarre in its original context because Jones has been ranting about the evil American government for over an hour and the only advice he can give Dr. Fitzgerald is to “call the American embassy,” a branch of the same NWO fascist state he’s been blathering about. Then he goes back to his rant.

Exactly, it doesn't make much sense does it? Poor Dr. Fitzgerald, he seemed genuinely worried for his son.

This paranoid movement is just out to no good. Shame on Alex Jones for fueling and entertaining people's paranoia, inevitably the most fragile ones will do something tragic, and their families will suffer.

The only reason Dr. Fitzgerald called AJ is that Sean wanted him to. Sean Fitzgerald’s call to the truther podcast show is still available here (http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_sean_fitzgerald.mp3) and is quite poignant.

Damn this story is infuriating. I just listened to that podcast, the host instead of talking sense into him (like just ask him why Thailand of all places would care about 9/11), he just took his words that he was "followed" as fact and entertained his delusion. :mad:

These talkshow hosts are almost criminal, they literally helped him over the edge.

[boloboffin]

Applying mass quantities of grease to a slippery slope in order to continue cash extractions from the rubes = scum of the earth.

[NickUK]

What a truly dreadful story. I sincerely hope he's getting the care he obviously needs at the moment.

[Walter Ego]

This is my video about Sean Fitzgerald. It includes the complete phone call by his father to the Alex Jones Show and excerpts from the truther podcast, mostly about Sean’s trying to get someone to contact Alex Jones. I’ve avoided editorializing except for a bit at the very end. The video is about 8 minutes long.

9tmLZRFXQ48

[parky76]

um...this is a tragedy. we dont need to hear the voice of a deranged killer.

[Caper]

I am in no way saying what happened to Edward Fitzgerald was the fault of Alex Jones. I actually thought Alex Jones gave the father sound (if not odd) advice. But he did almost seem to brush the father off, which again is what you do with this sort of craziness (although Alex Jones moves on to more craziness).

Is it possibile that Sean Fitzgerald thought this incident would propel him into truther stardom? He seemed desparate to have his story heard by Alex Jones. I think it may have been at least possible that he felt his father blew the Alex Jones, thus denying him truther Infamy.

I'm not saying for sure it was a factor (one of many), but it may have been part of it.

[Reality Believer]

Alex Jones sunk the Edmund Fitzgerald? :confused: I knew he was a bit overweight, but .... :eek:

[A W Smith]

It appears Sean Fitzgerald thought just the opposite, That Alex Jones blew his dad off.

9tmLZRFXQ48

[UNLoVedRebel]

When Tim McVeigh blew up the Murrah building in OKC, conspiracy talk show host switched his genre more to the paranormal, as to not fuel any delusions some random nuts may be harboring. Alex Jones doesn't have the decency Art Bell has.

[A W Smith]

Alex Jones sunk the Edmund Fitzgerald? :confused: I knew he was a bit overweight, but .... :eek:


Somewhere, someone is working on new lyrics to a Gordon Lightfoot song

[Cl1mh4224rd]

apparently 7/10 married people believe the official story, whereas only 4/10 single people do.

I knew it was the damn singles feeding the fire of twoof!! Damn you singles...damn you to hell.


Meh. It's just proof that marriage is a form of brainwashing. :p

What a truly dreadful story. I sincerely hope he's getting the care he obviously needs at the moment.


He probably won't have much of a choice at this point...

[T.A.M.]

IS there anyway we could murge this thread with the other Sean Fitsgerald thread.

TAM:)

[Brainster]

I am in no way saying what happened to Edward Fitzgerald was the fault of Alex Jones. I actually thought Alex Jones gave the father sound (if not odd) advice. But he did almost seem to brush the father off, which again is what you do with this sort of craziness (although Alex Jones moves on to more craziness).

Is it possibile that Sean Fitzgerald thought this incident would propel him into truther stardom? He seemed desparate to have his story heard by Alex Jones. I think it may have been at least possible that he felt his father blew the Alex Jones, thus denying him truther Infamy.

I'm not saying for sure it was a factor (one of many), but it may have been part of it.

Again, I think that's reading too much into it. My thoughts are that he wanted to get on the show because Alex has sold himself in the past as a kind of safe haven; once you appear on his show the New World Order won't dare kill or imprison you. When Dylan and Jason were touting their "new" witness (Barry Jennings) a couple years ago, Alex was exhorting them to get him on his program so he'd be safe. So Sean doesn't get on the show, but he gets what he wants; out of Thailand and back home.

Fran Shure's husband (Colorado friend of Fitzgerald and fellow 9-11 fruitcake) claimed in a phone call with Troy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKvqJcR_BiI) (profanity warning, definitely NSFW) that the anti-psychotic medications that Fitzgerald was taking caused him to freak out. That's possible, I suppose; equally possible is that he was not taking his meds.

It will be interesting to see if his attorney tries to pursue the 9-11 Truth connection as a symptom of an underlying mental disorder.

[CptColumbo]

Maybe it's because I was just reading articles about that wrestler who killed his family and hung himself, but I'm inclined to think it was the injury that might have pushed him over the edge. Perhaps he had a previous accident that went unreported. I'm not his doctor and I don't have access to his medical files, so I am only making a hypothesis at this point.

Regardless, it's a sad story.

[A W Smith]

Apparently Sean wasn't being paranoid about what seemed to be happening to him in Thailand. Massive unrest there.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=thailand

[Walter Ego]

Apparently Sean wasn't being paranoid about what seemed to be happening to him in Thailand. Massive unrest there.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=thailand

While it is safe to say the unrest in Thailand exacerbated Sean Fitzgerald’s paranoia, I don’t think it’s accurate to say it caused it given that he appears to have a history of mental illness.

In the podcast interview (http://media.libsyn.com/media/visibility911/visibility911_sean_fitzgerald.mp3)from his hospital room, he is rather vague about any direct actions on his part that would have drawn the attention of the authorities.

Unless he was engaged in activism against the Thai government, I doubt if he would have drawn much attention from the Thai police or military intelligence agencies.

[Homeland Insurgency]

This is a strange thread. What is the implication of the op? It's funny considering that the debunkers frequently like to assume that the majority of the world comes down on their side regarding 9/11. I guess that would mean it is safe to assume the next time I see a murder in the news that murderer is is one of the vast consensus.

[Brainster]

This is a strange thread. What is the implication of the op?

There is a longstanding debate in the forum as to whether "Truthers" are slightly off-kilter, absolutely bonkers or just reasonable people with reasonable questions. This is just a data point.

It's funny considering that the debunkers frequently like to assume that the majority of the world comes down on their side regarding 9/11. I guess that would mean it is safe to assume the next time I see a murder in the news that murderer is is one of the vast consensus.

Yes, assuming that you see something about how he wasn't a 9-11 Truther.

[Pardalis]

The problem is that the radio hosts instead of talking sense into him, and trying to make him see that he wasn't being followed and maybe try to direct him towards psychiatric help, they took his story as a fact and fueled it by validating his feelings of persecution.

[Dr Adequate]

This is a strange thread. What is the implication of the op? It's funny considering that the debunkers frequently like to assume that the majority of the world comes down on their side regarding 9/11. I guess that would mean it is safe to assume the next time I see a murder in the news that murderer is is one of the vast consensus. Yes; and you might also assume that such an individual is part of the vast consensus that thinks that the CIA is not spying on them through their televisions, that Obama is not the Antichrist, and that they are not being followed everywhere by extraterrestrial lizard people.

However, while these assumptions would likely be correct, they would also likely have no relevance to the hypothetical murder; people do not commit murders just as a consequence of not being paranoid lunatics.

[Jonnyclueless]

This seems like the step that follows a person who is in a stage of claiming to work for the NSA, the police, the fire, and every other possible job description possible.

[JoeyDonuts]

I have to echo some of T.A.M.'s earlier comments on this matter.

Do we really know his mental health history? While we can somewhat agree that much of the "truth movement" is a bit touched, we have to concede that the overwhelming majority of them are NOT murderers, or otherwise lawbreakers. I don't see anything here that really points to a causal psychological link between involvement with the 9/11 TM and violent behavior.

If someone is genuinely mentally ill (and we have to assume that he was) just about anything can be a trigger. Sure, the 9-11 TM and a lot of the anti/government paranoia associated with it could have worked to stoke the fires of his already existing disability - but a handle of Johnnie Walker will also do that. While we know that consuming lots of Johnnie Walker will lead to inebriation, it doesn't necessarily lead to violence.

If we blame Mr. Fitzgerald's psychotic break on the 9/11 TM, we might as well blame the Columbine shooting on DOOM. Without knowing his extensive medical history, or prison interviews of his recollection of events/mental states - us positing a link between his involvement in the TM and his violent psychosis is exactly the kind of connect-the-dots reasoning that we usually chide the 9/11 CT folks for.

That said, I have nothing but the utmost sympathy for Dr. Fitzgerald's family, and especially for the wife and child that must now do without their father because of this senseless tragedy. We can hypothesize all day about whether or not the 9/11 TM had an influence on his actions but the only person who knows why Dr. Fitzgerald was murdered is his son. And if he's truly mentally ill the way Charles Manson is...we may never find out why.

[Bobert]

To bad most debunkers remain anonymous, im sure theres quite a few skeletons in their closets.
I may crossdress on the weekends but sheesh I dont stab my own father while he is asleep in bed!

[Bobert]

very very sad story.
It seems that when Dr. Fitzgerald called AJ he had NO IDEA what he was getting himself into

[gumboot]

Sad. :(

[Brainster]

His lawyer is going with the insanity defense (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_11128213):

Sean Fitzgerald's attorney, Ed Farry, told 4th Judicial District Judge David Gilbert, "Our belief is that Sean Fitzgerald is incompetent to proceed."

Farry said he will submit a psychiatrist's report to Gilbert within days.

Based on that report, Gilbert could decide to send Fitzgerald to the Colorado Mental Health Institute in Pueblo for a mental health evaluation. Farry says his client is so mentally imbalanced, he does not understand the legal proceedings against him and can't assist in his defense.

Want to bet that the psychiatrist highlights his 9-11 Trooferism as symptomatic of paranoid schizophrenia? We've already seen the Twinkie Defense; will this be the Twoofie defense?

Fitzgerald will reportedly be back in court on December 9.

[T.A.M.]

Exactly.

This is my fear. If it becomes the common belief that those who believe in 9/11 truth MUST BE INSANE (which in my opinion is not true), then you will see it used everywhere.

That said, this man may be insane regardless of his belief in 9/11 truth.

TAM:)

[dudalb]

All Truthers Insane in a medical, legal sense., probably not.
But do Truthers have Batcrap Crazy ideas? You bet.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

His lawyer is going with the insanity defense (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_11128213):

Sean Fitzgerald's attorney, Ed Farry, told 4th Judicial District Judge David Gilbert, "Our belief is that Sean Fitzgerald is incompetent to proceed."

Farry said he will submit a psychiatrist's report to Gilbert within days.

Based on that report, Gilbert could decide to send Fitzgerald to the Colorado Mental Health Institute in Pueblo for a mental health evaluation. Farry says his client is so mentally imbalanced, he does not understand the legal proceedings against him and can't assist in his defense.

Want to bet that the psychiatrist highlights his 9-11 Trooferism as symptomatic of paranoid schizophrenia? We've already seen the Twinkie Defense; will this be the Twoofie defense?

Fitzgerald will reportedly be back in court on December 9.


I wonder if "does not understand the legal proceedings" is a euphemism for "thinks the proceedings are rigged in an attempt to silence a critic of the government".

[Homeland Insurgency]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg

[parky76]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg

don't you find it just a bit ironic that the picture you posted is intentionally destorted?

what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"??? don't truthers honor this centuries old American commitment to fairness and justice?

[Homeland Insurgency]

don't you find it just a bit ironic that the picture you posted is intentionally destorted?

what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"??? don't truthers honor this centuries old American commitment to fairness and justice?

That picture is distorted? How?

[parky76]

That picture is distorted? How?

OK...now that...is funny!!

but anyways, this is a derail..so me done.

[Homeland Insurgency]

OK...now that...is funny!!

but anyways, this is a derail..so me done.

What? I actually thought that was a flattering portrait.

[Bobert]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg
I get the feeling that you must really crave negative attention and that you do enjoy banging your head against the wall.
It has been pointed out to you TIME AND TIME AGAIN that MANY PEOPLE within this forum DO NOT SUPPORT GEORGE BUSH.
It is rather entertaining to see you sit in the corner with a dunce cap on.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg


Dubya personally authored the NIST reports and the 9/11 Commission, and scripted the FBI investigation? Interesting...

[Dr Adequate]

Dubya personally authored the NIST reports and the 9/11 Commission, and scripted the FBI investigation? Interesting... He's secretly the hardest working man in the world and a genius.

Imagine if he'd put his talents to work into running the country well.

[Dr Adequate]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg Whom do you hope to deceive when you post stuff like this?

[A W Smith]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg


Yet by the same token he was allegedly able to plan and conceal for seven years the largest and most complex conspiracy ever on this earth? Could you make your mind up if you even have one?

[AJM8125]

Whom do you hope to deceive when you post stuff like this?

Himself.

[PhantomWolf]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg

Wow... you obviously think that Bush is a lot more intelligent and competent that I do. But then I suppose crediting him any level of imtelligence and competence would be more than I do.....

[UNLoVedRebel]

Do you people forget the picture of mental stability who handed down your version of 9/11 truth and how many deaths he is responsible for?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Rgh0CzYPWwpeBM:http://www.dubyasworld.com/dubya-quit-thinking.jpg

Homeland, let me introduce you to my friend William of Ockham.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/William_of_Ockham_-_Logica_-_1341.jpg

I'll leave you two along so can get acquainted with each other.

[eromitlab]

Dubya personally authored the NIST reports and the 9/11 Commission, and scripted the FBI investigation? Interesting...

No, don't be silly. George and our dear Uncle Richard sat down by the fireplace on national television, in prime time, on all the networks, and told everyone "The 9/11 Official Story". Don't you remember?


No, wait, I missed that show. It only aired in truthers' minds, after all. Must've been the "concession break" feature between Loose Change I and II.

[T.A.M.]

I wonder what magical story they will come up with for Obama and his group? If some Iranian terrorist sets off a nuke in some american city, will the truthers blame Obama and the others for it?

I hope we never have to find out.

TAM:)

[NickUK]

Homeland, let me introduce you to my friend William of Ockham.

I'll leave you two along so can get acquainted with each other.

That dude looks like he could really do with a shave.

:D

[8den]

I have to echo some of T.A.M.'s earlier comments on this matter.

Do we really know his mental health history? While we can somewhat agree that much of the "truth movement" is a bit touched, we have to concede that the overwhelming majority of them are NOT murderers, or otherwise lawbreakers. I don't see anything here that really points to a causal psychological link between involvement with the 9/11 TM and violent behavior.

Just a thought, if my son had a history of serious mental health problems, and called me from Thailand freaking about being chased by paramilitaries, my first call wouldn't be to a freaking idiotic shock jock, but to the embassy or consult in Thailand.

[Confuseling]

That dude looks like he could really do with a shave.

:D

Wouldn't it be simpler to grow a beard?



at the risk of sounding controversial

[MarkyX]

I don't see anything here that really points to a causal psychological link between involvement with the 9/11 TM and violent behavior.


Really? Even when Kevin Barrett threatened scientists, police officers, fire fighters, and journalists who disagreed with him? Or when that crazy bastard in the UK who was happy his wife died and threatened Gravy? Or when CIT wanted to "profile" debunkers so he can stalk them? Or We Are Change stalking individuals and commit an assault or two? Or when the 9/11 truther who had a .50 caliber sniper rifle and a pipe bomb in his NY apartment? Or the constant daydreaming forum posts we hear about 9/11 deniers trying to overthrow the government and killing off the police?

I guarantee you if Sean went ******* and killed off Bush or Cheney, 9/11 deniers would consider him a Martyr.

[Brainster]

I think the comments over a causal link are missing the point. Nobody thinks that Sean Fitzgerald killed his father because he was a 9-11 Troofer. What I suspect is that both of those symptoms have a common cause: Paranoia (possibly paranoid schizophrenia).

Do 9-11 Troofers exhibit paranoia? Quite definitely. Are they exhibiting paranoid schizophrenia? At least one Troofer has been medically diagnosed (Michael Cook) as having that mental illness. But this is where we should be cautious, as TAM says. Are all Troofers paranoid? Yes. Are they all paranoid schizophrenics? I doubt that.

You can, of course, draw a direct link between his Trooferism and his father's death. Sean would have been in Thailand and unable to kill his dad had he not gotten spooked and rode the wrong way down a major highway on his bicycle, resulting in an accident that landed him in the hospital. And he blamed his getting spooked on his outspokenness about 9-11 Troof. So even if the murder was caused by some sort of argument between him and his dad unrelated to 9-11, Sean would not have had the opportunity absent his Trooferism.

We Are Change Colorado (aka WAC-CO) has issued a YouTube statement on the matter:

cGEAr5OXHto

Notice that they don't acknowledge scrubbing their website of the reference to Sean's problems in Thailand. And the "Info" section of their post has this unfortunate exhortation to Troy from West Virginia:

Your lack of objectivity is clear in your videos, anyone with a brain is not only laughing at you but wondering when you will seek professional help.

I think the WAC-CO crowd is the last one that should be lecturing others on getting professional help.

[Walter Ego]

We Are Change Colorado (aka WAC-CO) has issued a YouTube statement on the matter:

cGEAr5OXHto

Notice that they don't acknowledge scrubbing their website of the reference to Sean's problems in Thailand. And the "Info" section of their post has this unfortunate exhortation to Troy from West Virginia:


I asked them in the comments why the web page about Sean was scrubbed.



buddhaglass: So why did you scrub your pages about Sean from the internet?

ColoradoChange: we pulled a page requesting help to get him back to the states because he was already back to the states. Why would we keep asking people to help get him back and raise awareness of his situation anymore after he had gotten back?

By the way, no one helped and we didn't do much either. From what I was told, his dad flew him back to Colorado Springs. No one knew Sean or his dad. Only 2 of the founding We Are Change Colorado members knew him and We Are Change Colorado got started up a year ago, just weeks before Sean left to Thailand. Sean was never even at any meeting, not one. We don't really know why he was connected to us.

oh and one more thing. Sean sent us an email 5 months ago requesting to be taken off our email list because he wasn't with us. If this gets any bigger, We have tons more to explain the whole thing. The main point it, the guy was not connected to us AT ALL. Not even a little. All we did was try to help get him back to the states because he was in a car accident, as far as we were told

buddhaglass: Yeah, I got the point. You're washing your hands of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGEAr5OXHto