Are breast implants an appropriate graduation present? [Archive]

UnrepentantSinner

5th November 2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Zep
In answer to the original question:

NOT FOR ME THEY ARE NOT! :)

:roll: But the question doesn't involve you only. It involves you, Mrs. Zep and Zeplette and how you would react to her asking you for such a thing at such a young age. Kitty and others with daughters in the 16-20 age range I'd like to hear from you too.

Again, I think implants are great for women 21 or over who want them and are getting them for the right reason, and further, I would whole heartedly support a 15 or 17 year old daughter who's pendulous bosom was causing her back pain or malformed shoulders from her bra straps - but I just think it's wrong for a girl/woman under 21... and especially for one under 18 to get implants.

UnrepentantSinner

8th November 2003, 08:13 AM

I'm surprised that High Schoolers getting breast implants didn't solicit more outrage.

Maybe if I post some pics...

Glory

8th November 2003, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
I'm surprised that High Schoolers getting breast implants didn't solicit more outrage.

Maybe if I post some pics...

My kneejerk response is outrage. It is appalling until I think about it logically.

First and foremost, I must apraoch this with the assumption that the girl is physically healthy and fully developed. If there is a medical reason that she should not undergo the procedure, that is pretty much that. Assuming the absence of such medical problems though, I must say I don't feel that I should judge someone else's choices. At eighteen this girl may be absolutely sure of what she wants and who am I to say that she should endure a body she dislikes because I don't happen to like the idea of implants? A lot of women and girls are very unhappy with their bodies. Have any of those who condemn this choice really any idea what it is like to feel like these women? I think she should be encouraged to make a well thought out choice. I have no reason to think she has not thought this out thoroughly.

Consider, we make modifications to ourselves all the time. We pierce parts of ourselves, we get tattoos, we dye our hair, we get orthodontia. What is it about breast implants that is so terrible? ( Again, please bear in mind that I am not addressing possible health problems which may be associated with breast implants.)

I believe that hating your body has rammifications which may be far worse than risks associated with surgery. I also think that eighteen year olds are as capable of making good choices as anyone else. Lastly, I believe that the doctor involved probably has ethics and will not perform surgery that he doesn't think is a good idea. Contrary to what you see on TV< most plastic surgeons are ethical and moral people who don't just take the money and run. The doctor's oppinion carries wieght as well.

Glory

MoeFaux

8th November 2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Glory

A lot of women and girls are very unhappy with their bodies. Have any of those who condemn this choice really any idea what it is like to feel like these women? I think she should be encouraged to make a well thought out choice. I have no reason to think she has not thought this out thoroughly.
Glory

When I was in High School, I wanted larger breasts. I was very unhappy with my cup size and I thought that I should get implants.
But when I started dating more (seeing what men liked), and saw more of what other womens bodies looked like (going to strip clubs), I realized I had a pretty great thing going and I should be very happy with what I have. So a little bit of maturity and real world experience helped me see that breast implants were not the answer. I really dig my body now and I'm glad I didn't do anything rash.

Also, I think that yes, Plastic Surgeons sometimes will say "no" to operating on the young. Mostly for the reason I gave in my first response to this thread - that a young womans body may not be fully developed at that age, and a couple of years might produce a change.

Glory

8th November 2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by MoeFaux

When I was in High School, I wanted larger breasts. I was very unhappy with my cup size and I thought that I should get implants.
But when I started dating more (seeing what men liked), and saw more of what other womens bodies looked like (going to strip clubs), I realized I had a pretty great thing going and I should be very happy with what I have. So a little bit of maturity and real world experience helped me see that breast implants were not the answer. I really dig my body now and I'm glad I didn't do anything rash.

Also, I think that yes, Plastic Surgeons sometimes will say "no" to operating on the young. Mostly for the reason I gave in my first response to this thread - that a young womans body may not be fully developed at that age, and a couple of years might produce a change.

I guess what I am trying to do is not assume that the girl is doing something rash. Admittedly, 18 yearolds do tend to be rash. Ultimately I think the appropriateness of this gift is determined on a case by case basis because some girls are rash and some aren't.

I think everyone here agrees that you do indeed have a good thing going. My husband thinks you're hot! (I am totally okay with that, BTW)

Glory

Julia

8th November 2003, 04:29 PM

Moe's post illustrates a good point. You often see yourself quite differently at age 24 than you do when you're 18.

It seems to me that what makes more sense is giving money for either college or a trade school. Perhaps with an IOU. When they complete their education/training and they are working, if they still want the implants and are willing to pay half, the parents will pay the other 50%. I'll bet chances are high that they change their minds by then.

DangerousBeliefs

9th November 2003, 03:39 PM

South Park - Episode 610 - Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society

http://www.spscriptorium.com/Season6/E610script.htm

Dr. Hallis: Young lady, are you absolutely sure you want to consider this kind of procedure for your breasts?

Wendy: Yes! I want to get breast implants!

Mrs. Testaburger: I tried to tell her she was too young.

Dr. Hallis: Well, it is a different time, Mrs. Testaburger. Society puts a lot of pressure on your daughter to look her best. Having small breasts can make her feel unimportant.

Mrs. Testaburger: [considers the doctor's argument...] But she's eight!

Dr. Hallis: Yes, well, not too young to feel flat and therefore, not pretty.

Wendy: That's what I said.

Dr. Hallis: However, young lady, I'm afraid breast implants are not for everyone. [takes out a notepad] I'll need to carefully assess your physical and mental condition to see if augmentation is truly the best way for you to go.

Wendy: I have three thousand dollars, cash. [her mom blanches]

Dr. Hallis: [quickly disposes of the pad and pen, then rises and leaves the desk] You pass. Let's do this thing.

Mrs. Testaburger: [mortified] Oh, wait. You're gonna do it right now?

Dr. Hallis: Suuure. Breast augmentation is now a very simple procedure. [holds Wendy's right arm up and points to the armpit] What we do is make a small incision in the armpit where it won't be seen. Then we take this little plastic bag and gently place it in the chest where we fill it with salt water.

Mrs. Testaburger: I still don't know about this.

Dr. Hallis: Look. Us plastic surgeons have one philosophy. If we can help someone's self-esteem a little, then why not do it if they have to be a thousand dollars?

kittynh

9th November 2003, 05:51 PM

No way!!!

For one thing, money is to be spent on education. If the kid wants them that badly she can earn the money herself and I'LL STILL SAY NO!

I've heard enough horror stories about breast implants. Loss of sensation (nuff said...), and they are only good for a limited amount of time. Which means more surgery down the road. I hope I've raised my girls with enough self esteem to not want or need such a radical body change. Braces yes...boobs no.

And it isn't because I"m cheap. I spent over $100,000 on Kittens high school! That could buy a lot of boobs.

Plus, sports are good. Girls that play a sport don't have as many body image problems. OF course, boobs could make kitten more bouyant during her kayaking....

The time to deal with this issue isn't at graduation though. It's at birth onward. By the time you get to graduation, it's a little late.

Glory

10th November 2003, 12:23 AM

Kittyn,
I am sorry to say this but these sound like the words of a woman who is well endowed. You don't like the idea of breast implants and that is the primary thing driving your oppinion on this.

We have all heard the horror stories. I have also known a couple of women whose only complaint about implants is that they waited so long to get them. The question is not wether or not implants are dangerous or if they are problem free. The question is wether they are an appropriate gift.

I think that since none of us have met the girl in question or know anything about her other than the fact that she wants bigger boobs, none of us are qualified to determine wether or not it is appropriate. It is a personal decision. I certainly don't want people I have never met and whom my daughter has never met thinking that they have a clue what is appropriate or inappropriate for my daughter, particularly once she is a legal adult or so close to that she would be tried as an adult if she shot someone.

Glory

MoeFaux

10th November 2003, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Glory

I guess what I am trying to do is not assume that the girl is doing something rash. Admittedly, 18 yearolds do tend to be rash. Ultimately I think the appropriateness of this gift is determined on a case by case basis because some girls are rash and some aren't.

I think everyone here agrees that you do indeed have a good thing going. My husband thinks you're hot! (I am totally okay with that, BTW)

Glory

[blush]
Thanks, Glory.

kittynh

10th November 2003, 08:37 AM

I agree with most of your points Glory. For adult women, breast implants are ok. Some women are really tiny. Some women need them for the line of work they are in. Some women just want them like hey, I'd like a face lift since I hit 40, and will probably go for one once the kids are paid off.

Hey, Moe can assure you from the pole dancing strip club thread, that at an earlier time there wasn't much equipment on top (I posted a very sad little pic of myslef...)

As someone that works hard to pay for my children to attend school, implants would be such a waste of money. If I were rich, I'd still make sure she talked to people like Muriel Hemingway (she actually has some of my art, so I could get her to talk to mykid). Then, when she could pay for it herself, and we weren't paying for anything (if she earned the money, but we were still paying for her books and stuff, forget it) - I would accept it, but onlyif she had done her homework. Other people can do things differently. It's not a clear line with me. I'd pay for a nose job, especially if it was really bad, so why a nose job and not a boob job? Probably because of personal stories I've heard (dont' get Muriel started....) Parenting isn't an exact science!

Glory

10th November 2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by kittynh
I agree with most of your points Glory. For adult women, breast implants are ok. Some women are really tiny. Some women need them for the line of work they are in. Some women just want them like hey, I'd like a face lift since I hit 40, and will probably go for one once the kids are paid off.

Hey, Moe can assure you from the pole dancing strip club thread, that at an earlier time there wasn't much equipment on top (I posted a very sad little pic of myslef...)

As someone that works hard to pay for my children to attend school, implants would be such a waste of money. If I were rich, I'd still make sure she talked to people like Muriel Hemingway (she actually has some of my art, so I could get her to talk to mykid). Then, when she could pay for it herself, and we weren't paying for anything (if she earned the money, but we were still paying for her books and stuff, forget it) - I would accept it, but onlyif she had done her homework. Other people can do things differently. It's not a clear line with me. I'd pay for a nose job, especially if it was really bad, so why a nose job and not a boob job? Probably because of personal stories I've heard (dont' get Muriel started....) Parenting isn't an exact science!

Muriel got hers for "Star '80" didn't she? How ironic is that? She gets implants to play a tortured nude model and she ends up getting tortured by her implants.

I agree that I personally would want someone getting implants to pay for it themselves. I think that leads to better thought out decisions.

Maybe the difference between nose jobs and boob jobs is that the standard of beauty for noses is far more clear. Also, breasts are so associated with sex. Women will react as strongly to an unattractive nose as a man will. Men have rhinoplasty as well. Boob jobs are more about being attractive to men. That sits wrong with us. We have been taught and fought so hard to be judged by something other than beauty. It is hard to stomach surgery for the sake of attracting men. As with so many issues, though, attraction and body image are vastly more complicated than is allowed for by feminist rhetoric.

How did I miss the pole dancing thread? I would have liked to have been in on that one.

Glory

kittynh

10th November 2003, 11:40 AM

Look under the AMazing Meeting section. It starts out about which strip club to go to, but then the skepchicks took it over and decided to get pole dancing lessons from Moe and G6...it's pretty funny

Schizobunny

10th November 2003, 08:23 PM

I think breast implants at any age is stupid. People should know that outward appearance doesn't matter and if they are doing it for someone else why would they waste their time on someone who judges people by their outward appearance and not their intellagence and personality.

Glory

10th November 2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Schizobunny
I think breast implants at any age is stupid. People should know that outward appearance doesn't matter and if they are doing it for someone else why would they waste their time on someone who judges people by their outward appearance and not their intellagence and personality.

Do you aply this thinking to all aspects of appearance? If so, do you comb your hair and wear nice, clean clothes that match?

Appearance matters alot to me. Not because of what others think but because of what I think of myself. I have never bought into the notion that apearance doesn't matter. I like to see people who are pleasant to look at. I look to be pleasant to look at myself. People see your looking your best as sign of respect and thoughtfulness. People are more likely to be attracted to you if you feel good about yourself. Their are a million reasons that appearance does matter and most of them have nothing to do with getting a date. Some women feel very bad about themselves and so take steps to change how they feel about themselves. That isn't stupid. It is powerful. By getting implants some women are taking control of their lives and their bodies. As for it beeing stupid to feel bad about yourself, I challenge any human to honestly say that they don't feel bad about some aspect of themselves and, should a person step forward who can make this claim, this person would be insufferable.

Glory

Schizobunny

13th November 2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by Glory

Do you aply this thinking to all aspects of appearance? If so, do you comb your hair and wear nice, clean clothes that match?

Appearance matters alot to me. Not because of what others think but because of what I think of myself. I have never bought into the notion that apearance doesn't matter. I like to see people who are pleasant to look at. I look to be pleasant to look at myself. People see your looking your best as sign of respect and thoughtfulness. People are more likely to be attracted to you if you feel good about yourself. Their are a million reasons that appearance does matter and most of them have nothing to do with getting a date. Some women feel very bad about themselves and so take steps to change how they feel about themselves. That isn't stupid. It is powerful. By getting implants some women are taking control of their lives and their bodies. As for it beeing stupid to feel bad about yourself, I challenge any human to honestly say that they don't feel bad about some aspect of themselves and, should a person step forward who can make this claim, this person would be insufferable.

Glory

I comb my hair and wear clean clothes for sanitation reasons, but I don't care if my clothes match and I get made fun of a lot, because of the way I dress, but I don't care. Why can't people feel good about themselves, because they know they are intellagence and they know they are willing to do what is right?

Glory

13th November 2003, 07:01 PM

I don't know. Here is what I think. We all want to be liked by at least a few people and people tend to gravitate towards people to whom they are attracted and towards people who dress simmilarly. Bear in mind I am not talking solely about sexual attraction but about general attraction. The kind that results in people choosing the friends that they do. Sexual attraction almost always begins with visual appraisal. First impressions are primarily based on the same thing. We all make assumtions about other people based on their appearance. The choices one makes to regarding that are designed to manipulate those assumtions. To send a message to the world about who they are and what they like and how one is likely to be recieved sould they approach is the goal. Have you ever seen a thin, blond, very tanned woman in stilletto heels and a mini skirt and had, shall we say, unkind thoughts about what kind of person she probably is? Do you see the kid in the jeans and Varsity Jacket and suspect that he is probably not going to have much in common with you? Assumtions based on appearance. By controlling ones appearance one takes control of an aspect of their life. That's my theory anyway.

BTW, what about people who are not intelligent or who are not confident about their intelligence?

Glory

Schizobunny

14th November 2003, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Glory

BTW, what about people who are not intelligent or who are not confident about their intelligence?

Glory

I think anyone can be intelligent if they read a lot and work at it.

Glory

14th November 2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by Schizobunny

I think anyone can be intellagent if they read a lot and work at it.

And anyone can have big boobs if they have money and the number of a good surgeon. LOL.

In truth, intelligence is not mutable. Reading and study make one learned and informed, not intelligent. Intelligence is the factor which determines how hard one has to work to learn things and what each of us is capable of learning. Each of us is born as intelligent as we will ever be.

Glory

kittynh

15th November 2003, 03:12 PM

I would agree to a point. Yet, I once helped babysit a small baby, then toddler with Down's Syndrome. Her parents were physicians and believed that lots of stimulation would help her. I'm talking constant, what you would normally do with a baby, but with a round of caregivers to help keep up the intensity. I don't have a link, but they actually had studies that showed children with the stimulation did better, and scored higher on IQ tests. They had the money to pay for it, and I must say, Heidi did very well. She was also able to tie her shoes and other things before my child (who was 6 months older!)

I think Harry Harlow showed with the baby monkeys that a baby with stimulation was at least better able to learn better than an isolated child.

Glory

15th November 2003, 04:09 PM

I don't think the stimulation made the kids smarter. It helped them realize their potential. It helps them learn more and faster and perfrom better on tests designed to measure intelligence. The only way to accurately measure the intelligence of a child who had recieved such stimulation would be to compare his performance against another child who had recieved the same treatment. Improved performance does not necessarily indicate higher intelligence.

I would love to know more about this type of stimulation therapy. Did your friend use a specific program and, if so, how can I find out more about it.

Glory

Eos of the Eons

20th November 2003, 11:27 PM

I was into the whole "guys must like how I am on the inside, and not the outside dea" when I was younger.

Thing is that guys are very visual. You could be the smartest sweetest girl on the planet, but a guy is still going to be tempted by a gorgeous bimbett.

There has to a balance...which taking care of yourself will accomplish. Eat a balanced diet and exercise.

If a guy only likes big boobs, and I don't have them, then he can go find someone with big boobs. I'll look around for a guy with a more balanced perspective.

I'm average, and happy-even after nursing 3 kids. They aren't saggy baggy or anything. I'm kinda impressed they still are as good as they are.

You can't be sure that a boob job will be good. Why wreck what you have with some bag of stuff in your chest?

If I was flat flat, then yeah, at 25 I might have been concerned. At 30 though...I don't know. I don't care as much that I don't have D cups.

As long as a girl is attractive and takes care of herself, then why would boob size matter? I've seen some really beautiful 'flat' girls that have no problem attracting the opposite sex.

If boobs, and fake at that, is all you have to offer, then you shoulda got a personality or some brains instead.

Knowing guys though....

They will take the bimbette for a while, until the "one" comes along. So, if you want to just be test driven, and never bought...then yes, just focus on your physical body.

I've hear many a guy say that they will get the milk for free from an attractive chick, but will drop her in a second for someone who has the 'full package' of brains and health and can be loved more even if they aren't as attractive as the test driven model. She gets bought because she shows more promise for the long term-better quality always lasts longer.

kittynh

21st November 2003, 07:28 AM

And you want to attract a quality guy. My grannie used to say that you didn't want to attract all the men, just the right man.

Pool Boy jokes I met him while I was wearing a turtleneck and a jumper (American jumper, not UK jumper).

I also know several "heavy" women in wonderful marriages, though they married later in life, and many "knock outs" who are still looking for a "soul mate".

Eating well and taking care of yourself - good advice for anyone. And if you are getting a boob job just to attract a man, is that good for any very young woman? I can see a boob job for your work, or because you feel really badly about your tiny boobs, or other reasons. but with a 50% marriage failure rate, "getting a man" or else you're a failure isn't the best lesson to teach your daughter. Lots of happy single women out there.

LuxFerum

21st November 2003, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by kittynh
Lots of happy single women out there.

Why go to college?
Lots of happy unintelligent people out there.

:)

arcticpenguin

21st November 2003, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by LuxFerum

Why go to college?
Lots of happy unintelligent people out there.

:)
I will do you the favor of assuming you meant "uneducated", not "unintelligent".

LuxFerum

21st November 2003, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by arcticpenguin

I will do you the favor of assuming you meant "uneducated", not "unintelligent".
yeah, that sounds better

[/hijack]

kittynh

21st November 2003, 10:40 AM

Back to boobs, well, there is Brittney Spears, and there is Cheryl Crow. People buy music from both women, and there is a place for each in the world of music. Personally, I think MsCrow is the more natural looking, but I guess guys like Ms.Spears look better. But I don't think MsCrow needs to go out and get implants either. Would she sell more records if she got a boob job? Don't know.

MoeFaux

21st November 2003, 11:22 AM

Having fake breasts does not make one sexy. And women who think that they are sexy merely for the fact that they have fake breasts really don't have a clue.
Self confidence and knowing ones self equal sexy. And add that to a smokin' bod, and well, that's wonderful.

Glory

21st November 2003, 11:23 AM

I think that Cheryl Crow and Brittany Spears have as much in common as chicken cacciotore and cotton candy.

Do Crowe's fans buy her records because of her boobs or her talent? Could Spears sell any records if she didn't look like she does?

Music fans buy songs. Pop fans buy pictures which happen to have a disc attatched to them.

Glory

BTW, when Cheryl Crowe was a stripper, her boobs seem to have gotten the job done.

Edited to add,

Okay, my source on the stripper thing is backtreading. He now claims that he doesn't know wether or not Crowe was in fact a stripper before her music carreer took off.

UnrepentantSinner

22nd November 2003, 01:17 AM

Also, we don't in fact know if Britney has implants.

She did appear much larger in the past to me... and I do pay attention to these things as breast size is very important to me in determining a woman's attractiveness.

Grommitt

22nd November 2003, 02:20 AM

Originally posted by Schizobunny

I think anyone can be intellagent if they read a lot and work at it. And, if you work at it enough, you may some day be able to spell correctly.

Glory

22nd November 2003, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
Also, we don't in fact know if Britney has implants.

She did appear much larger in the past to me... and I do pay attention to these things as breast size is very important to me in determining a woman's attractiveness.

I assumed she was chosen as an example of woman whose breasts are not lacking size nor hidden behind normal clothing. Implants or no, she doesn't have small t*tts.

Glory

kittynh

22nd November 2003, 11:31 AM

OK let's say Cheryl was a stripper. But her small breast made her a not too successful stripper. Sure she was pulling on some money, but not the big bucks. She had begged her parents to pay for a boob job for her high school graduation, but those stinkers said , "no". She said, "but you spent all that money on those guitar lessons!"

Finally, seeing the stripping was going no where, she fell back on those guitar lessons....

it's a fantasy,. but it would be fun if it were true

geni

22nd November 2003, 11:38 AM

Just to stir things up a bit I will add this link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3227396.stm

And for the record all the girls I know with big boobs keep complaining about them.

Eos of the Eons

22nd November 2003, 01:14 PM

THat's a damn sad article geni. Sickening. Kids should be putting that much energy into their education and future. Fake boobs at 18, ugh. I had better things to worry about at 18 than bust size. These kids really need something to do besides watching stupid stars obsess about their bodies.

Originally posted by kittynh
OK let's say Cheryl was a stripper. But her small breast made her a not too successful stripper. Sure she was pulling on some money, but not the big bucks. She had begged her parents to pay for a boob job for her high school graduation, but those stinkers said , "no". She said, "but you spent all that money on those guitar lessons!"

Finally, seeing the stripping was going no where, she fell back on those guitar lessons....

it's a fantasy,. but it would be fun if it were true

Okay...into fantasy...
She should get a another job. Her parents aren't responsible in any way to contributing to her success as a stripper, that was her choice. She got guitar lesson, she musta wanted them...and parents only have so much money.

Good ending...and great moral of the story. Get the brats a good base, so when they finally realize there is more to life than looks, they can finally use their talents.