The End of the Christian Religion (proof)

[jimmygun]

I have finally come up with the be-all and end-all statement that will turn everyone away from Christianity. Its a lock folks, all you have to do is tell the next Christian you talk to that you can prove their religion is false and they will have no recourse but to abandon it and join forces with the dark side, ie athiests!

Jesus was selling Christianity right?

Jesus was not a Christian right?

Therefore Christianity is false because it means following a false leader!

Tada! Done and done! What will we talk about next?

[queenmelissa]

I have finally come up with the be-all and end-all statement that will turn everyone away from Christianity. Its a lock folks, all you have to do is tell the next Christian you talk to that you can prove their religion is false and they will have no recourse but to abandon it and join forces with the dark side, ie athiests!

Jesus was selling Christianity right?

Jesus was not a Christian right?

Therefore Christianity is false because it means following a false leader!

Tada! Done and done! What will we talk about next?Keep dreaming.
:p

[kitakaze]

Jesus was selling Christianity right?

I would think the hiccup would start there.

Then, assuming Jesus is a historical figure and that he believed what he was preaching to the people around him, why wouldn't he qualify as a Christian?

[Cainkane1]

I was in yahoo christian chat and I was suggesting that Christianity might end if the second comming failed to occur in this generation.

[kitakaze]

I was in yahoo christian chat and I was suggesting that Christianity might end if the second comming failed to occur in this generation.

Cainkane1, I recently discussed the subject with a friend who I often debate with who is an educator for the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. I refer you to the Wikipedia entry on their faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Day_Adventism):

The Seventh-day Adventist Church is the largest of several "Adventist" groups which arose from the Millerite movement of the 1840s. The Millerite movement was part of the wave of revivalism in the United States known as the Second Great Awakening and originated with William Miller, a Baptist preacher from Low Hampton, New York. Miller predicted on the basis of Daniel 8:14 and the "day-year principle" that Jesus Christ would return to Earth on October 22, 1844. When this failed to occur, most of his followers disbanded and returned to their original churches.

Following this "Great Disappointment" (as it came to be known), a small number of Millerites came to believe that Miller's calculations were correct, but that his interpretation of Daniel 8:14 was flawed. Beginning with a vision reported by Hiram Edson on October 23, these Adventists arrived at the conviction that Daniel 8:14 foretold Christ's entrance into the "Most Holy Place" of the heavenly sanctuary rather than his second coming. Over the next decade this understanding developed into the doctrine of the investigative judgment: an eschatological process commencing in 1844 in which Christians will be judged to verify their eligibility for salvation. The Adventists continued to believe that Christ's second coming would be imminent, although they refrained from setting further dates for the event.

Adventists often view themselves as heirs of earlier groups such as the Waldenses, Protestant Reformers including the Anabaptists, English and Scottish Puritans, evangelicals of the 18th century including Methodists, Seventh Day Baptists and others who rejected established church traditions


I cite this as evidence that it didn't happen then and that there really isn't any reason to think it would happen now.

[queenmelissa]

I was in yahoo christian chat and I was suggesting that Christianity might end if the second comming failed to occur in this generation.Didn't Jesus promise one of his disciples that he would come before the end of their lifetime or generation? I think I remember reading that somewhere. Something like: "I promise you before then end of your lifetime this day will come".......maybe I'm mistaken. But reading this made me think of it. What do Christians say about that? When I was a Christian, I just told myself he must have misquoted. I thought of every excuse I could. Just being honest. ;)

[steve s]

Didn't Jesus promise one of his disciples that he would come before the end of their lifetime or generation?

Mark 9:1 is one such passage...

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Not sure if there are others.


Steve S.

[kitakaze]

And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Obviously the group Jesus was speaking to had some Tolkien elves, Terminators, and possibly vampires in the bunch.

[The Atheist]

Didn't Jesus promise one of his disciples that he would come before the end of their lifetime or generation?

Nah. People live longer nowadays.

In biblical times people clearly lived to 8-900 years old. (The bible says so, so it must be true.)

With medical advancement and god's love, those goat-herders now live to almost 2500. Baby J has a few years left yet before he has to come back.

[moon1969]

No Christianity will not end. Majority of the americans don"t respect the separation of church and state. Orthodox Church seems to be very strong in Russia and Medvedev and Putin call themselves devoted christians. Religion will never end but let just say that end of religion would be quicker if people in the world would respect separation of church and state. Separation of church and state is the key that would end all religions.

[gnome]

Actually I think separation of church and state will HELP religions... keep them to their mission instead of adding governance (and the corruption and politics that come with it) to their domain.

[KingMerv00]

Majority of the americans don"t respect the separation of church and state.

I'd wager that most Americans do not know what "separation of church and state" means in a legal sense.

[RobRoy]

Nah. People live longer nowadays.

In biblical times people clearly lived to 8-900 years old. (The bible says so, so it must be true.)

With medical advancement and god's love, those goat-herders now live to almost 2500. Baby J has a few years left yet before he has to come back.

It occurs to me that this would be an interesting plot for a fiction novel. This group of folk who have lived two millenium, chosen to be semi-immortal until Jesus comes again.

Thanks!

[rushes off to start writing]

Also, in counter to this, I believe some Christians state that we are currently living under God's power as manifested by Christianity through Jesus. Other's state that Jesus was speaking more metaphorically, and that he meant that their lines would not die out or something like that.

I think there are other responses to this, but I can't recall any at the moment. Basically, ole Matty was selling his faith hard and trying to win converts, giving them the "buy now, as this sale will end tomorrow" speil.

[Silentknight]

I have finally come up with the be-all and end-all statement that will turn everyone away from Christianity. Its a lock folks, all you have to do is tell the next Christian you talk to that you can prove their religion is false and they will have no recourse but to abandon it and join forces with the dark side, ie athiests!

Jesus was selling Christianity right?

Jesus was not a Christian right?

Therefore Christianity is false because it means following a false leader!

Tada! Done and done! What will we talk about next?

Jesus also preached loving your neighbor, giving to the poor, and curing the sick, and railed against violence, conflict escalation, and hypocrisy, but that hasn't stopped a lot of Christians. Some fundies have even ignored his "remove the plank" sermon to the point where they're growing redwoods out of their eyes. :rolleyes:

[The Atheist]

It occurs to me that this would be an interesting plot for a fiction novel. This group of folk who have lived two millenium, chosen to be semi-immortal until Jesus comes again.

Thanks!

[rushes off to start writing]

10% of gross is fine. Cheers.

[phantomb]

Didn't Jesus promise one of his disciples that he would come before the end of their lifetime or generation? I think I remember reading that somewhere. Something like: "I promise you before then end of your lifetime this day will come".......maybe I'm mistaken. But reading this made me think of it. What do Christians say about that? When I was a Christian, I just told myself he must have misquoted. I thought of every excuse I could. Just being honest. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

The story of the Wandering Jew wraps the whole thing up in a neat little package.

[articulett]

No, no, no...
You're going about it all wrong...
'cuz you still have original sin and Satan and all that stuff--
What you need to do is encourage Christians to pray for Satan's salvation:
http://www.normalbobsmith.com/free/flyers/pfs.html

[linusrichard]

OP is the very definition of argumentum ad hominem. Whether Jesus believed what he was saying was true has no bearing on whether what he was saying was true. This is, logically speaking, exactly like when fundies (falsely) claim that Darwin recanted on his deathbed. Even if true, it doesn't matter.

[jimmygun]

OP is the very definition of argumentum ad hominem. Whether Jesus believed what he was saying was true has no bearing on whether what he was saying was true. This is, logically speaking, exactly like when fundies (falsely) claim that Darwin recanted on his deathbed. Even if true, it doesn't matter.

Damn! I really thought I had something there. Oh well, back the drawing and quartering board.

[RobRoy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

The story of the Wandering Jew wraps the whole thing up in a neat little package.

So does Casca Longinus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casca_Longinus), but his stories are have more action and scantily clad women. :cool:

[Lonewulf]

OP is the very definition of argumentum ad hominem. Whether Jesus believed what he was saying was true has no bearing on whether what he was saying was true. This is, logically speaking, exactly like when fundies (falsely) claim that Darwin recanted on his deathbed. Even if true, it doesn't matter.

Wait. If Jesus said, "Wait, I'm not the Son of God", then that wouldn't influence Christianity at all?

[Darth Rotor]

Wait. If Jesus said, "Wait, I'm not the Son of God", then that wouldn't influence Christianity at all?
Since he often referred to himself as The Son of Man according to the NT, apparently not. ;)

[Roadtoad]

I'd wager that most Americans do not know what "separation of church and state" means in a legal sense.

Most Americans don't know what it means in ANY sense.

[Third Eye Open]

Wait. If Jesus said, "Wait, I'm not the Son of God", then that wouldn't influence Christianity at all?

I don't think Jesus ever actually said he was the son of god. It was just added because that was popular at the time. (half god, born of a virgin.) Jesus could be completely made up and it wouldn't matter.

[Darth Rotor]

Most Americans don't know what it means in ANY sense.
I think you overstate the case.

It is taught in school as early as the fourth and fifth grade. What it 'means' to a given American is variable, it seems, not to mention an awful lot on a daily basis worrying about anything but that. :boggled:

[RobRoy]

I don't think Jesus ever actually said he was the son of god. It was just added because that was popular at the time. (half god, born of a virgin.) Jesus could be completely made up and it wouldn't matter.

Oh, I disagree. If there was a Jesus, then I think he claimed to be the son of God, but not in the sense that he alone was divine. Rather that we are all sons and daughters of God (some of us even at the same time!). That the divine was within us, and we should respect that aspect of each other, and thus do unto others as we would have done unto us.

I believe this was one of the early heresies, though I couldn't say which one.

[Roadtoad]

Sorry, Rob, but according to the Bible, you're wrong.

If Jesus were not claiming to be God Incarnate, why would the Pharisees have been picking up stones to use against Jesus? According to the Gospels, it was because Jesus claimed to be co-equal with God, (i.e., God Himself, as there can only be One God, under Scripture.)

[RobRoy]

Sorry, Rob, but according to the Bible, you're wrong.

If Jesus were not claiming to be God Incarnate, why would the Pharisees have been picking up stones to use against Jesus? According to the Gospels, it was because Jesus claimed to be co-equal with God, (i.e., God Himself, as there can only be One God, under Scripture.)

I was not speaking of the Bible's portrayal of Jesus (and I don't think Third Eye Open was either, but he/she will have to answer that), usually at the hands of writers at least a generation or two removed from the actual events. Rather, as I said if there was a Jesus, then his ideas seemed to be raising the common folk up to the same level as the priesthood holders.

It's tricky to say what actually happened in regards to the clash between the historical Jesus and the Pharisees. There are all kinds of issues with the way in which Jesus' trial was held which suggest that the Biblical descriptions was written by someone who either got the facts mixed up, or else made up the facts based on a smattering of understanding.