Will 9-11 Truthers defend KSM????

[Thunder]

So, are 9-11 Truthers gonna be protesting outside the U.S. State Department and Department of Defense, demanding the immediate release of the "innocent man"....Khalid Sheihk Mohammed?

if KSM is brought to the USA...will they protest for his immediate release outside his prison?

when I believed that Mumia Abu-Jamal was innocent..I showed my face and protested outside the Philly City Hall in 1998.

Will 9-11 Truthers show the same courage..and protest in defense of KSM?

:confused:

I think we ALL know what the answer is. They will NOT protest in defense of KSM. And why not? Cause they KNOW most of the USA sees him as a horrible evil man. And if they protest for his release, waving "9-11 was an inside job" signs, they will seal the fate of their "movement"..and perhaps even their own.

But, that said, if they really had strength, courage, and morality, they would fight for what they believe in.

And if they TRULY believe KSM is innocent (which I highly doubt), they will demand his release. Come on truthers, prove us all wrong, step up and show us what you're made of.

[Crazytimes]

So, are 9-11 Truthers gonna be protesting outside the U.S. State Department and Department of Defense, demanding the immediate release of the "innocent man"....Khalid Sheihk Mohammed?

if KSM is brought to the USA...will they protest for his immediate release outside his prison?

when I believed that Mumia Abu-Jamal was innocent..I showed my face and protested outside the Philly City Hall in 1998.

Will 9-11 Truthers show the same courage..and protest in defense of KSM?

:confused:

I think we ALL know what the answer is. They will NOT protest in defense of KSM. And why not? Cause they KNOW most of the USA sees him as a horrible evil man. And if they protest for his release, waving "9-11 was an inside job" signs, they will seal the fate of their "movement"..and perhaps even their own.

But, that said, if they really had strength, courage, and morality, they would fight for what they believe in.

And if they TRULY believe KSM is innocent (which I highly doubt), they will demand his release. Come on truthers, prove us all wrong, step up and show us what you're made of.

Rumor has it that KSM is bringing evidence to court with him. He will submit Exhibit A, which is 2 cardboard boxes that resemble WTC 1 . He will then drop the smaller piece on top of the big piece and that will be enough for them to find him not guilty.

[Thunder]

Rumor has it that KSM is bringing evidence to court with him. He will submit Exhibit A, which is 2 cardboard boxes that resemble WTC 1 . He will then drop the smaller piece on top of the big piece and that will be enough for them to find him not guilty.

This will then make it clear to all..that a new investigation into 9-11 is indeed warrented. =)

[kookbreaker]

when I believed that Mumia Abu-Jamal was innocent..I showed my face and protested outside the Philly City Hall in 1998.


/hard stare.

I hope the past tense in that sentence means you no longer feel that way.

[Thunder]

yeah. im sure he did it. he even confessed when he was first arrested.

[1337m4n]

Will 9-11 Truthers defend KSM????

No they will not. They are hypocritical attention-seeking idiots who are too lazy to actually take action to change the world so they just post on the internet asking other people to do it for them and claim that this makes them "heroes".

[Thunder]

No they will not. They are hypocritical attention-seeking idiots who are too lazy to actually take action to change the world so they just post on the internet asking other people to do it for them and claim that this makes them "heroes".

Ouch..thats pretty harsh. At least they try.

:D

[adversity1]

No they will not. They are hypocritical attention-seeking idiots who are too lazy to actually take action to change the world so they just post on the internet asking other people to do it for them and claim that this makes them "heroes".

Since this is true, we should really hold them to the fact that they stood by while an innocent man was convicted in an unjust military court. They are the passive ones willing to put nothing on the line. There will not even be so much as an article published on 9-11 blogger trying to defend KSM, precisely because it brings the truth movement much too close to the real world, in which people have to actually defend their ideas and their defacto allies.

[portlandatheist]

This is an absolutely ideal opportunity for Lawyers for 9/11 Truth to step up to the plate, pool their resources and talents, and represent KSM. They can present their evidence of an inside job to the court for their clients defense and for the world to see and run the investigation they are so desperate for. I can just see the drama of a Perry Mason moment where evidence is revealed and the real killers are revealed!
Truthers:
Seize the day! This is your moment, this may be your only chance! Make history!

[JoeyDonuts]

Seize the day! This is your moment, this may be your only chance! Make history!

No matter what they're able to come up with, it will not be as historically epic as your avatar picture.

[Thunder]

Id at least admire them for having the guts to stand by what they believe in, if some of them did it. they would be hated by the whole nation..but at least they would show they got chutzpah.

[moon1969]

They will call him a caveman and a stupid arab even if he Wow KSM has a degree in mechanical engineering and he got that in 1986 but what does he know his just a stupid caveman patsy like Lee Harvey Oswald. :D

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

no. instead they come here.
They know very well the JREF is where they get the attention the need to get their wetdream fantasies off the ground.

[Drudgewire]

no. instead they come here.
They know very well the JREF is where they get the attention the need to get their wetdream fantasies off the ground.


Yeah, except when some new clueless irrelevant celebrity latches onto them for mutual glory-day placating, we pretty much are the last place on earth outside of their circle-jerks to even acknowledge their existence.

[dtugg]

Id at least admire them for having the guts to stand by what they believe in, if some of them did it. they would be hated by the whole nation..but at least they would show they got chutzpah.

Agreed. If they actually did something to try to defend this poor man who was framed for one of the worst crimes of all time and tortured into confessing, I would have a little respect for them. But they won't, and I don't respect any of them at all.

[Tandem Thinking]

I'm not sure I would necessarily respect them since they're defending a terrorist (probably, we'll see what the court decides) and still act like loons, but I would definately not think of them as hypocritical anymore.

TT

[Brainache]

This gives me an idea for a new thread...

Doing something to stop KSM being tried and executed is not what Truthers are about. To do that they'd have to, like, y'know, do something.

[portlandatheist]

No matter what they're able to come up with, it will not be as historically epic as your avatar picture.
So very true.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Why would Truthers defend a CIA/MI6 agent?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Why would Truthers defend a CIA/MI6 agent?

So KSM is both American and British. Who would've thought? And he's taking up positions in both countries. No wonder jobs are so hard to get these days.

[JoeyDonuts]

Why would Truthers defend a CIA/MI6 agent?

Isn't Valerie Plame at the middle of their latest crop of nonsense?

[skepticalcriticalguy]

So KSM is both American and British. Who would've thought? And he's taking up positions in both countries. No wonder jobs are so hard to get these days.

Stop thinking so dogmatically. Do you think Intel agencies care what your citizenship is, if you get the job done?

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Isn't Valerie Plame at the middle of their latest crop of nonsense?

Haven't heard that one yet. What have you heard?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Stop thinking so dogmatically. Do you think Intel agencies care what your citizenship is, if you get the job done?

http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/66697644/13762972

[240-185]

Why would Truthers defend a CIA/MI6 agent?

ARGUMENT ERROR
*** Please back up your claim with evidence ***
*** If you don't have any, don't make any nonsense rubbish in the future ***

> _

[UNLoVedRebel]

So KSM was working for the CIA and Mi6, and he ends up getting waterboarded for his efforts. I would write a letter to human resources if I were him.

[dtugg]

So KSM was working for the CIA and Mi6, and he ends up getting waterboarded for his efforts. I would write a letter to human resources if I were him.

Not only that, but he will likely end up executed. Or perhaps the twoofers will claim that was faked.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Not only that, but he will likely end up executed. Or perhaps the twoofers will claim that was faked.

With those working conditions, he must've had one hell of a dental plan.

[JoeyDonuts]

Haven't heard that one yet. What have you heard?

There may not be that many people that think this. The less the better, but here it is anyway:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4256482#post4256482

[cludgie]

Not only that, but he will likely end up executed. Or perhaps the twoofers will claim that was faked.

At which point he'll be quietly sent to the same secret island the troofers think the real passengers from Flight 93 now occupy and live in luxury on.

[Thunder]

Why would Truthers defend a CIA/MI6 agent?

thats a convenient excuse. is he a jew too?

[Dr Adequate]

Why would Truthers defend a CIA/MI6 agent? Do you think he's guilty of the crimes of which he stands accused?

[RedIbis]

Do you think he's guilty of the crimes of which he stands accused?

I think that's the whole purpose of a trial, isn't it?

[Dr Adequate]

I think that's the whole purpose of a trial, isn't it? Gosh, you expressed an opinion obout something.

So if he's found guilty, will you think he's guilty of the crimes of which he stands accused?

Or will you decide that actually the purpose of the trial was to frame an innocent man while whitewashing the real perps, that further bamboozling the brainwashed American sheeple?

[BenBurch]

I think that's the whole purpose of a trial, isn't it?

No, a trial is just about what can be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Murderers walk because juries, though they might believe a defendant to be guilty, have a reasonable doubt about whether what is before them constitutes enough proof of that.

So, a man can be acquitted of a murder, but still be the one who did it. OJ is an example of this. He was acquitted of double-homicide though I am sure that there were those on the jury who thought he might have done it, but then later was found civilly responsible for the killings. So, I can say with good basis and without risking libel that I think he killed those people, but he was found legally innocent of the crime.

Even so, I wouldn't change the way this is done because once you do relax the reasonable doubt standard, you send WAY too many innocent people to jail.

[Mince]

Defend him? They would elect him President of the United States if given a chance. That is how free of guilt he is in their world.

[NoZed Avenger]

So, I can say with good basis and without risking libel that I think he [OJ] killed those people, but he was found legally innocent of the crime.


Pedanctic legal quibble: found "not guilty." no one is ever found 'innocent' for the exact reasons you stated in your post -- a not guilty finding is just a finding that the state failed to prove the case, not that the person is, in fact, innocent. Your point is completely correct; that is just a legal term of art/semantic difference.

[Thunder]

exactly. you are found guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt...or not guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt. no one is ever found "innocent".

just because you are found not guilty..doesnt mean you didnt do it. it simply means the prosecution failed to prove your guilt. the jury may indeed think you are guilty...but understand that the law says opinion is irrelevant. it is the strength of the prosecution's case, beyond any and all reasonable doubt, that means everything.

[MIKILLINI]

I don't think they would defend KSM..it would be a very unpopular thing for them to do.

About as unpopular as being part of the 9/11 truth movement, except truthers don't believe the movement is unpopular.

[MIKILLINI]

They will call him a caveman and a stupid arab even if he Wow KSM has a degree in mechanical engineering and he got that in 1986 but what does he know his just a stupid caveman patsy like Lee Harvey Oswald. :D

Which means their comments will still be regarded as moon bat crazy and continuing to be ignored.:)

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I don't think they would defend KSM..it would be a very unpopular thing for them to do.


For all their chest-thumping about how "more and more people are waking up every day" and "it's only a matter of time", I'm sure that the vast majority of truthers are keenly aware of the fact that they would be absolutely slaughtered by the public if they ever came out to defend KSM publicly.

This also reveals that they, on some level, understand that they have an insignificant amount of public support.

[Thunder]

if....9-11 truth is more and more popular..and if...9-11 truth is taking over..

then there is no reason why they would NOT defend KSM.

hmmm.....

[Galileo]

So, are 9-11 Truthers gonna be protesting outside the U.S. State Department and Department of Defense, demanding the immediate release of the "innocent man"....Khalid Sheihk Mohammed?

if KSM is brought to the USA...will they protest for his immediate release outside his prison?

when I believed that Mumia Abu-Jamal was innocent..I showed my face and protested outside the Philly City Hall in 1998.

Will 9-11 Truthers show the same courage..and protest in defense of KSM?

:confused:

I think we ALL know what the answer is. They will NOT protest in defense of KSM. And why not? Cause they KNOW most of the USA sees him as a horrible evil man. And if they protest for his release, waving "9-11 was an inside job" signs, they will seal the fate of their "movement"..and perhaps even their own.

But, that said, if they really had strength, courage, and morality, they would fight for what they believe in.

And if they TRULY believe KSM is innocent (which I highly doubt), they will demand his release. Come on truthers, prove us all wrong, step up and show us what you're made of.

This thread is in bad taste.

9/11 families protest fairness of Gitmo trials

December 10, 2008
By AMY WESTFELDT, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK -- Two dozen family members of Sept. 11 victims signed a letter Wednesday saying they don't believe in the fairness of the military trials of five men charged with orchestrating the terrorist attacks, and some suggested their opinions cost them attendance at the proceedings.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20081211040139933

When will the JREFers stop dumping on the victims of 9/11.

[dtugg]

Saying that the tribunals may be unfair is totally different than saying KSM is a patsy like twoofers pretend. And besides, two dozen out of tens of thousands? So what?

I take it you are going to be protesting in front of the White House to free KSM, right Galileo? You are a twoofer, therefore you have to believe that he is innocent. How are you going to stand by while this poor man is tried and executed for this horrible thing that he has been framed for?

[Galileo]

Saying that the tribunals is totally different than saying he is a patsy like twoofers pretend. And besides, two dozen out of tens of thousands? So what?

I take it you are going to be protesting in front of the White House to free KSM, right Galileo? You are a twoofer, therefore you have to believe that he is innocent. How are you going to stand by while this poor man is tried executed for this horrible thing that he has been framed for?

You are a Falser. Why don't you go to Washington and protest for Dick Cheney.

[dtugg]

You are a Falser. Why don't you go to Washington and protest for Dick Cheney.

Dick Cheney was framed for killing three thousand people and is now on trial for his life?

[Galileo]

Dick Cheney was framed for killing three thousand people and is now on trial for his life?

Cheney wasn't framed. He did it. Now please go and start your protest before he is judged by history.

[DGM]

You are a Falser. Why don't you go to Washington and protest for Dick Cheney.

:confused:
OK I'll bite. (shows the boredom in this sub-forum)What the hell are you talking about?

[dtugg]

Cheney wasn't framed. He did it. Now please go and start your protest before he is judged by history.

What's wrong with you? I am going to go protest for a man that is not on trial and is only believed guilty by a few nutcases? Sure.

In the meantime, KSM is on trial, likely to be found guilty, and executed for a crime that you say Dick Cheney was responsible for. How can you in good conscience do nothing? Are you a coward? Or do just not really believe the nonsense that you spout?

[JamesB]

We have said this so many times it is almost a cliche, but it is never more true:

"The great virtue of a fake conspiracy is that it calls on you to do nothing."
-George Monbiot-

[PhantomWolf]

The reality is that they know the truth, they just don't want to admit it. They won't go and defend KSM or the others because they know he's guilty and want him punished, but to say so would mean they have to toss out their whole rebellion against authority and the Government is evil, evil I tell you, BS that they like to stand on. Their movement isn't about really finding out the truth, it's about them, their egos, and their ability to pretend to be smarter than everyone else cause they know the "truth".

[RedIbis]

The reality is that they know the truth, they just don't want to admit it. They won't go and defend KSM or the others because they know he's guilty and want him punished, but to say so would mean they have to toss out their whole rebellion against authority and the Government is evil, evil I tell you, BS that they like to stand on. Their movement isn't about really finding out the truth, it's about them, their egos, and their ability to pretend to be smarter than everyone else cause they know the "truth".

I can only speak for myself but I've always wanted Nuremburg type trials for OBL and anyone else connected to the plot. Long before I ever considered alternative theories, right from the start I wanted OBL captured and not killed.

Unfortunately, that's proven naive of me, to think that long, televised trials could take place, replete with evidence, witnesses, juries, questioning, defense, the system of justice that democracies are built upon.

Instead, if any such "trial" takes place it will be military tribunal, and I doubt much of the proceedings would see the light of day and the defendents enjoy even basic due process protection.

Is there someone here who actually thinks a thorough, transparent trial is going to take place?

[dtugg]

Is there someone here who actually thinks a thorough, transparent trial is going to take place?

Obama is going to be President in like a month, so it will really be up to him more than anybody else.

[RedIbis]

Well, I don't think it can be said much better than this:

"Many of us do not believe these military commissions to be fair, in accordance with American values, or capable of achieving the justice that 9/11 family members and all Americans deserve," says the statement posted on the website of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

"These prosecutions have been politically motivated from the start, are designed to ensure quick convictions at the expense of due process and transparency, and are structured to prevent the revelation of abusive interrogations and torture engaged in by the US government."

The statement continues: "No comfort or closure can come from military commissions that ignore the rule of law and stain America's reputation at home and abroad."

[dtugg]

OK, fine. If it turns out that they are tried in the tribunals, you and the upset family members can complain to President Obama. For the record, I would rather they have civilian trials, but I don't care all that much.

[defaultdotxbe]

I can only speak for myself but I've always wanted Nuremburg type trials for OBL and anyone else connected to the plot. Long before I ever considered alternative theories, right from the start I wanted OBL captured and not killed.

Unfortunately, that's proven naive of me, to think that long, televised trials could take place, replete with evidence, witnesses, juries, questioning, defense, the system of justice that democracies are built upon.

Instead, if any such "trial" takes place it will be military tribunal, and I doubt much of the proceedings would see the light of day and the defendents enjoy even basic due process protection.

Is there someone here who actually thinks a thorough, transparent trial is going to take place?
nuremburg WAS a military tribunal

[RedIbis]

nuremburg WAS a military tribunal

True. Good point, but the difference was that they were international. I'm not sure about these.

[JamesB]

True. Good point, but the difference was that they were international. I'm not sure about these.

So if we suddenly included the Brits, Canadians and French you would be happy with it? I seriously doubt that.

[RedIbis]

So if we suddenly included the Brits, Canadians and French you would be happy with it? I seriously doubt that.

I've come to realize how naive it would be for me to think that the trials will be transparent.

[Thunder]

The reality is that they know the truth, they just don't want to admit it. They won't go and defend KSM or the others because they know he's guilty and want him punished, .

Um...Im not sure about that part.

[UNLoVedRebel]

They couldn't give a flying **** if justice was served or not. 9/11 is just a topic for them to draw attention to themselves.

[Thunder]

This thread is in bad taste.

9/11 families protest fairness of Gitmo trials

December 10, 2008
By AMY WESTFELDT, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK -- Two dozen family members of Sept. 11 victims signed a letter Wednesday saying they don't believe in the fairness of the military trials of five men charged with orchestrating the terrorist attacks, and some suggested their opinions cost them attendance at the proceedings.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20081211040139933

When will the JREFers stop dumping on the victims of 9/11.

Wow....24 family members?...Out of like......maybe 20,000 family members total? Thats about....um.. .01%. That sounds about right. :D

Now, do they want there to be a fair trial? Thats fine. Do they think there was a secret NWO/Mossad/Freemason conspiracy to take down the WTC and institute martial law? I doubt it.

But you keep believing what you want to believe, if it makes you feel better.

When will 9-11 Truthers stop dumping on the 9-11 victims and lying about the 9-11 family members?

[Dave Rogers]

Wow....24 family members?...Out of like......maybe 20,000 family members total? Thats about....um.. .01%. That sounds about right.

That's an interesting number. So MIHOP has a 4.6% level of support among the general population, but only 0.01% of family members are even prepared to complain about procedural issues with KSM's trial, and yet the truth movement claims the support of victim families? Can anybody else see the problem with that claim?

Dave

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

This is an absolutely ideal opportunity for Lawyers for 9/11 Truth to step up to the plate, pool their resources and talents, and represent KSM. They can present their evidence of an inside job to the court for their clients defense and for the world to see and run the investigation they are so desperate for. I can just see the drama of a Perry Mason moment where evidence is revealed and the real killers are revealed!
Truthers:
Seize the day! This is your moment, this may be your only chance! Make history!

Huh.....I don't think it matters in real life if they just tell people thru a computer and on the internet that they are a lawyers.

[Alt+F4]

I've come to realize how naive it would be for me to think that the trials will be transparent.

So you have already made up your mind before the trials start. How "truthy" of you.

[WildCat]

I can only speak for myself but I've always wanted Nuremburg type trials for OBL and anyone else connected to the plot. Long before I ever considered alternative theories, right from the start I wanted OBL captured and not killed.

Unfortunately, that's proven naive of me, to think that long, televised trials could take place, replete with evidence, witnesses, juries, questioning, defense, the system of justice that democracies are built upon.

Instead, if any such "trial" takes place it will be military tribunal, and I doubt much of the proceedings would see the light of day and the defendents enjoy even basic due process protection.

Is there someone here who actually thinks a thorough, transparent trial is going to take place?
Wow, you don't know that the Nuremberg were military tribunals!

:dl:

[WildCat]

I've come to realize how naive it would be for me to think that the trials will be transparent.
It would likely violate the Geneva Conventions to televise the trials.

Quite possibly it is also a violation to charge war criminals in a civilian court.

[dtugg]

I started a new thread in Conspiracy Theories (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4270151#post4270151). Please take your Pear Harbor theories there, ULITMA1.

[Brainache]

Wll you might want to look at who stated the question into the administraion being charged with a crime. (HINT) it was not me.

The question arose from you saying that the trial of KSM would ignore any evidence that implicated the US government. As if no one in any government had ever been charged with corruption or any other crime.

If I derailed the thread, I apologise.

So Ultima, will you do something to stop this heinous railroading of KSM, who according to you is an innocent man?

[Gaspode]

Discussion on whether 9/11 was a war crime split to new thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=130911)

[Darth Rotor]

Cheney wasn't framed. He did it. Now please go and start your protest before he is judged by history.
Evidence?

Damnit, I just did a Larsen.

I feel dirty Danish.

[CHF]

Cheney wasn't framed. He did it. Now please go and start your protest before he is judged by history.

Wait.....so you want us to protest against the person who you think is responsible for 9/11? :eye-poppi

Truthers are the laziest revolutionaries ever!

[JoeyDonuts]

Wait.....so you want us to protest against the person who you think is responsible for 9/11? :eye-poppi

Truthers are the laziest revolutionaries ever!

I'm far too busy sitting in my toilet/armchair combo wolfing down armfuls of cheese out of a bucket...all while watching "Ow! My Balls!" on the Violence Network.

And I got my law degree at CostCo.

[zorro99]

WikiLeaks discloses new details on whereabouts of al-Qaeda leaders on 9/11

By Peter Finn, Sunday, April 24, 9:13 PM
On Sept. 11, 2001, the core of al-Qaeda was concentrated in a single city: Karachi, Pakistan.

At a hospital, the accused mastermind of the bombing of the USS Cole was recovering from a tonsillectomy. Nearby, the alleged organizer of the 2002 bombing in Bali, Indonesia, was buying lab equipment for a biological weapons program. And in a safe house, the man who would later describe himself as the intellectual author of the Sept. 11 attacks was with other key al-Qaeda members watching the scenes from New York and Washington unfold on television.

Within a day, much of the al-Qaeda leadership was on the way back to Afghanistan, planning for a long war.

A cache of classified military documents obtained by the anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks presents new details of their whereabouts on Sept. 11, 2001, and their movements afterward. The documents also offer some tantalizing glimpses into the whereabouts and operations of Osama bin Laden and his Egyptian deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/wikileaks-discloses-new-details-on-whereabouts-of-al-qaeda-leaders-on-911/2011/04/24/AFvvzIeE_story.html

Still no takers for the defense, eh?

[Scott Jurgenson]

Rumor has it that KSM is bringing evidence to court with him. He will submit Exhibit A, which is 2 cardboard boxes that resemble WTC 1 . He will then drop the smaller piece on top of the big piece and that will be enough for them to find him not guilty.

I laughed =)