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View Full Version : Do psychics have the right to practice skill? (Split from "Psychic sees jail time")


VisionFromFeeling
10th December 2008, 01:20 PM
I would greatly value your opinions on this:

I am a paranormal claimant since I perceive images from the inside of human bodies and can describe health problems in great detail. The information is specific and not vague. So far when checked for accuracy I have never been incorrect. The information often contradicts with what my assumptions based on prior knowledge or from looking at the person with eyesight would have been, yet I am always confident in the information.

I welcome each opportunity to meet with a new person to test the ability, and am actively working on arranging tests of scientific standard. My mind-set is that I am not opposed to finding out that there is a normal, as opposed to paranormal, explanation, and to encounter giving incorrect readings to an extent that indicates no ability at all. I do not make the claim of having extrasensory perception, what I say is that I have so far failed to dismiss the possibility of having it.

I do not openly offer my services to people and so far only do this with family and friends. Only twice have I come across information that is a serious health risk. In the first case I did not tell the person (coworker) but months later she had been diagnosed with it and told us. In the second case I did tell the person that I saw an enlarged heart wall and recommended that he switch to healthy oils in food and when possible see a heart specialist, all of which I determined should not be damaging to him in the case that I'd be incorrect.

Typically the information deals with pain, discomfort, dysfunction, ailments of the skeleton or muscle, since those are what I perceive to be the most common ailments in average healthy people that I meet.

I never charge people money for sharing the information with them nor do I expect that I ever will. The reason being that I am not a greedy person and look forward to a prosperous career, so I am comfortable with making that responsible choice.

I love the disclaimer "for entertainment purposes only" and explain this to the persons I meet with. I always give a lengthy disclaimer to persons before I give them the information I sense. I say "Although I have never been confirmed incorrect yet, this time might be it. I can not guarantee that what I see is correct unless you are able to confirm with me based on your knowledge of your health, and some of the things I detect are ones that would need to be checked by a physician or with medical imaging for us to find out whether they are true. None of what I say may lead you to not seeing a physician or not taking prescription medicines, although I might see something that gives me reason to recommend that you do see a physician which will then be your own choice to make. I may also suggest some lifestyle changes that are benefitial to health if I see that they are necessary, such as increased fiber, fruit or berries, reduced sodium or to stop eating ham and prepared meats, or to exercise, all of which you must decide on, on your own. I often detect discomforts and misalignment of the bones and muscles and, if you confirm that you do have these discomforts I see how to massage the bones or muscle that are involved to alleviate the problem. Do not take any of what I say seriously unless you feel that it confirms with what you already know, and do remember that I might be wrong this time."

After I have given the information, entirely without communication or interaction with the person and without asking questions, I ask the person to "Think about all of what I said and let me know how accurate I was. Take into account both the accuracy of what was said, as well as whether I failed to describe any significant ailments that you do have. Be honest, I am more happy to find the truth than to be proven correct."

My question is, I am very interested in meeting with persons to give them readings, mainly to continue to determine the accuracy of the information, and I am sure that there are many who would be interested in volunteering for this. More for entertainment purposes on my behalf and theirs, but also when I describe ailments in the way that a person perceives them it does them good to receive confirmation, and perhaps my information could be of some benefit to their health.

I am concerned with the possible risks involved and although I take all measures I can think of (except that of completely abstaining from giving out the information) I worry that I might cause some harm without intending or expecting it.

Even though I intend to use this ability responsibly: Should I have the right to practice this ability or should I never?
Split from here http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=130509

Darth Rotor
10th December 2008, 04:34 PM
I would greatly value your opinions on this:


Even though I intend to use this ability responsibly: Should I have the right to practice this ability or should I never?
Split from here http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=130509
Consenting adults. Go for it. Make sure you are honest. Can't be wrong if you follow that last bit.

DR

Gord_in_Toronto
10th December 2008, 05:28 PM
If it actually worked, well then you should go right ahead and benefit society.

However, you have not proved that you can make guesses any better than chance. Until you provide such proof -- and not just in your own mind -- then you are deluded and a danger to society by misleading people on an issue that is very important to them. You will cause unnecessary upset and possible expense if they follow up on your guesses with a real doctor.

To date no one has been shown to have any psychic abilities what-so-ever.
:mad:

Harpyja
10th December 2008, 05:43 PM
Depends.

From a liability standpoint - not legal liability, mind you - you may be responsible for someone's death or injury if you suggest advice that would prevent them from receiving professional medical assistance, particularly if you do this in exchange for monetary reward or otherwise. But it appears that you do not do this and as result I have a deep sense of respect for you.

Locknar
10th December 2008, 05:58 PM
If you really use the "for entertainment purposes only" I don't think anyone cares...knock yourself out.

GeeMack
10th December 2008, 06:46 PM
[...] I perceive images from the inside of human bodies and can describe health problems in great detail. The information is specific and not vague. So far when checked for accuracy I have never been incorrect. [...]


Seems you would need to actually substantiate this claim before your concern about the ethics of practicing becomes relevant.

desertgal
10th December 2008, 07:02 PM
I would greatly value your opinions on this: I am a paranormal claimant since I perceive images from the inside of human bodies and can describe health problems in great detail. <snip>

No. You are a paranormal claimant because you CLAIM to perceive images from the inside of human bodies and to describe health problems in great detail. Why do you persist in presenting this alleged ability as the real deal, when, by your own admission, you have not determined whether it is, in fact, a true ability or an overactive imagination?

Even though I intend to use this ability responsibly: Should I have the right to practice this ability or should I never?


You already do have the right. There is nothing to specifically bar you from practicing such an alleged ability.Whether you should never practice it is a personal decision.

logical muse
10th December 2008, 10:27 PM
I love the disclaimer "for entertainment purposes only" and explain this to the persons I meet with.
If I understand this correctly, you want to know if it's ethical to provide this psychic service, even if it may not be entertaining.

By claiming that it's "for entertainment purposes only", I think you may be legally obligated to ensure that your clients are entertained.

I'd suggest a bit of research, then, into what activities your clients enjoy. If, for example, you find out that a client enjoys picnics, then perhaps you can perform your services for this client on a rug, with a basket of food and wine, in a park. Maybe take some balloons and make balloon animals too. That way you're fulfilling your legal obligation to entertain them.

Hope this helps.

VisionFromFeeling
10th December 2008, 11:32 PM
logical muse:
If I understand this correctly, you want to know if it's ethical to provide this psychic service, even if it may not be entertaining.

By claiming that it's "for entertainment purposes only", I think you may be legally obligated to ensure that your clients are entertained.

I'd suggest a bit of research, then, into what activities your clients enjoy. If, for example, you find out that a client enjoys picnics, then perhaps you can perform your services for this client on a rug, with a basket of food and wine, in a park. Maybe take some balloons and make balloon animals too. That way you're fulfilling your legal obligation to entertain them.

Hope this helps.
That is the single most funny thing I have ever read on the JREF Forums! I can just picture myself entertaining people in a park! :clap:

VisionFromFeeling
10th December 2008, 11:50 PM
If there were a set of rules and regulations for psychic readings I would like to read them. How about you Forum members type up some rules? Even with the best of intentions I realize that dispensing medical information can be potentially harmful, although I have my own idea of proper conduct I would love to read more about it. Just being responsible with people's lives, that's all.

Zep
11th December 2008, 12:49 AM
I would strongly recommend that if you are going to practice medicine in any form that you get formally recognised medical qualifications first.

First Aiders are taught this - there is a distinction between "first aid" and "medicine". Clear boundaries over which legal stuff happens if you step.

Similarly, you need to make a clear distinction between what you do as "entertainment" (amaze people) and what you do as "medicine" (diagnose illnesses). If you can't tell the difference, you don't know where that line is. And if you don't know where that line is, you go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

CFLarsen
11th December 2008, 02:56 AM
Before any service is offered, establish scientifically that the ability is real.

You are not absolved from telling people falsehoods even if you are not aware yourself that they are falsehoods.

Otherwise, everyone can continue to fool people, and just claim he didn't know that he was cold reading.

jmercer
11th December 2008, 03:09 AM
If there were a set of rules and regulations for psychic readings I would like to read them. How about you Forum members type up some rules?

How about this?

Do no harm, directly or indirectly through your actions; neither mental harm, nor emotional, nor physical or financial. To anyone in mental or emotional distress, suggest professional counseling; to anyone in physical distress, suggest medical attention; to anyone in danger or who fears something illegal is happening in their lives, suggest they they contact law enforcement or seek counseling through the appropriate organizations. Accept no compensation or gifts of any kind for your services. Discourage violence, encourage peace.

Any "psychic" demonstrably and consistently practicing the above would not only have my tolerance, but my moral support and respect. (In fact, ANYONE practicing the above would have that, too - psychic or not.)

Locknar
11th December 2008, 04:12 AM
If there were a set of rules and regulations for psychic readings I would like to read them. How about you Forum members type up some rules? Even with the best of intentions I realize that dispensing medical information can be potentially harmful, although I have my own idea of proper conduct I would love to read more about it. Just being responsible with people's lives, that's all.There are rules...called laws, which varry from location to location.

If you were truly interested, there is nothing stopping you from researching this....

Dancing David
11th December 2008, 04:28 AM
If there were a set of rules and regulations for psychic readings I would like to read them. How about you Forum members type up some rules? Even with the best of intentions I realize that dispensing medical information can be potentially harmful, although I have my own idea of proper conduct I would love to read more about it. Just being responsible with people's lives, that's all.

It will vary from state to state, so it is rather confusing in terms of your legals restraint. In Illinois there is a prohibition against 'fortune telling' or 'predicting the future' for monetary gain. I think your best bet would be to have people sign a release that says they are consenting adults, that they know this is not a substitute for medical attention, etc...

That does kind of take the fun out of it.

"The Mighty Ali Bama will see you now to view the Secrets of the Universe... please read and sign this disclaimer."