Here's the perfect holidy gift for your AE911 Truth friends

[BigAl]

A toy high-rise demolition kit. Since it is only 8 floors, Litttle Richard will need to have 7 friends ask Santa for thier own kits so his sekret klub can simulate the demolition of a WTC tower.


The Worlds First, Best, and ONLY engineering, construction, and demolition toy to be endorsed by the Pro's at Controlled Demolition Inc!

http://www.americantoyco.us/#fed


Yup, endorsed by the fine folks at CDI. At least that's what it says on teh web page.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Your link doesn't work.

[defaultdotxbe]

Bandwidth Limit Exceeded

The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.

hehe, truth effect (its like the digg effect, but not)

[scissorhands]

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/12/12/advanced-engineering.html

Also a whole collection of possible products here.

http://uk.youtube.com/user/garnastics

I want one.
Richard Gage wouldnt be able to work out how to construct these things, never mind blow them up.

[Wolrab]

To Hell with the gizmos, they can just use the boxes they come in.

[ULTIMA1]

Funny how the believers keep ignoring the fact that their have been other steel skyscrapers in the US with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza_fire
The fire at One Meridian Plaza was the worst high-rise fire in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania history, as well as the costliest in United States history.

The blaze, which burned for 19 hours, raged from the 22nd floor to the 30th floor before a sprinkler system installed by a tenant on the 30th floor extinguished the flames.[1] The fire eventually went to 12-alarms and consumed the resources of 51 engine companies, 15 ladder companies, 11 specialized units, and over 300 firefighters. The fire would also claim the lives of three firefighters, and injure two dozen more.

[AJM8125]

Funny how the believers keep ignoring the fact that their have been other steel skyscrapers in the US with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza_fire
The fire at One Meridian Plaza was the worst high-rise fire in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania history, as well as the costliest in United States history.

The blaze, which burned for 19 hours, raged from the 22nd floor to the 30th floor before a sprinkler system installed by a tenant on the 30th floor extinguished the flames.[1] The fire eventually went to 12-alarms and consumed the resources of 51 engine companies, 15 ladder companies, 11 specialized units, and over 300 firefighters. The fire would also claim the lives of three firefighters, and injure two dozen more.

Interesting. At which point is the building hit with a 767, making it a valid comparison?

[ULTIMA1]

Interesting. At which point is the building hit with a 767, making it a valid comparison?


As usual you failed to read the post.

with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

When did a 767 hit WTC 7?

[bje]

Funny how the believers keep ignoring the fact that their have been other steel skyscrapers in the US with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza_fire
The fire at One Meridian Plaza was the worst high-rise fire in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania history, as well as the costliest in United States history.

Only Truthers believe every building and every fire in the world have the same effects and the same consequences.

It makes it easier for Truthers to make up "official truther fairy tales."

[AJM8125]

As usual you either failed to read or failed to accept the following sentence.

with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

My bad. At which point did One Meridian have two 1300 foot towers collapse around it? Better?

[ULTIMA1]

My bad. At which point did One Meridian have two 1300 towers collapse around it? Better?


You still failed to read the following.

and as much structural damage as WTC 7

[AJM8125]

You still failed to read the following.

and as much structural damage as WTC 7

What structural damage occurred to One Meridian?

[bje]

Every Truther wants a CIT Memorial Poster (http://demotivators.com/mis24x30prin.html) for Christmas, no?

[PhantomWolf]

And yet the Fire Dept didn't implode it, nor did the demolitions company the brought it down. Another funny thing, they evacuated it because they believed it was going to collapse, I guess they should have known better cause any truther will tell you a steel building can't collapse, so they were obvious stupid for thinking it could. Another funny thing, the steel beams (yes it has beams, unlike certain WTC buildings) where so badly damaged in the fire they determined it wasn't worth rebuilding. Makes you wonder how the beams got so damaged from mere fire, cause steel can't be affected by fire...

[ULTIMA1]

What structural damage occurred to One Meridian?

Umm how about 19 hours of fire.

[AJM8125]

Umm how about 19 hours of fire.

As "usualy" you've failed to read the question. What structural damage?

[ULTIMA1]

And yet the Fire Dept didn't implode it, nor did the demolitions company the brought it down.

Yes it was demolished.

Eventually, One Meridian Plaza was demolished floor by floor from 1998 to 1999 to make way for the Residences At The Ritz. Because of the building's proximity to City Hall and adjacent buildings, implosion was not a viable option.


Another funny thing, the steel beams (yes it has beams, unlike certain WTC buildings) where so badly damaged in the fire they determined it wasn't worth rebuilding.

So easy to prove you wrong with facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza_fire
The owner's consulting engineers proposed stripping the building to structural steel to just below the 19th floor and reconstructing it at a cost of $250 million. Aetna Corporation (now part of Travelers Group, which in turn merged into Citigroup), the insurer, maintained that the undamaged girders above that level could be used,


Makes you wonder how the beams got so damaged from mere fire, cause steel can't be affected by fire...

But 19 hours of fire. How long was WTC 7 burning, oohh thats right about 6 hours.

[ULTIMA1]

What structural damage?


The structural damage casued by 19 hours of fire. Gee was it really that hard to figure out?

[AJM8125]

Gee I'd think that if you're making a comparison between the two buildings, you'd have the answer to the question, instead of tap dancing around it.

[PhantomWolf]

Yes it was demolished.

I never said it wasn't demolision, in fact I said it was. I said it wasn't IMPLODED

So easy to prove you wrong with facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza_fire
The owner's consulting engineers proposed stripping the building to structural steel to just below the 19th floor and reconstructing it at a cost of $250 million. Aetna Corporation (now part of Travelers Group, which in turn merged into Citigroup), the insurer, maintained that the undamaged girders above that level could be used

Oh sorry I used the word beam instead of girder, how terrible.

But 19 hours of fire. How long was WTC 7 burning, oohh thats right about 6 hours.

And were they same design, oohh that's right WTC 7 was a truss and cantilever surport stucture and One Meridian Plaza was a beam and post support structure, but hey why should that make a different, all buildings should react in the exact same manner regardless of their construction, right?

[Dr Adequate]

A toy high-rise demolition kit. Since it is only 8 floors, Litttle Richard will need to have 7 friends ask Santa for thier own kits so his sekret klub can simulate the demolition of a WTC tower. Oh, but you know what little kids are like, they'd rather play with the cardboard box it came in.

[ULTIMA1]

Gee I'd think that if you're making a comparison between the two buildings, you'd have the answer to the question, instead of tap dancing around it.

Its not my fault if you do not know that 19 hours of fire would cause damage.

[AJM8125]

Oh, but you know what little kids are like, they'd rather play with the cardboard box it came in.

I am now aware of how painful it is to have hot coffee exit through my nostrils. Thank you.

[ULTIMA1]

And were they same design, oohh that's right WTC 7 was a truss and cantilever surport stucture and One Meridian Plaza was a beam and post support structure, but hey why should that make a different, all buildings should react in the exact same manner regardless of their construction, right?

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.

[AJM8125]

Its not my fault if you do not know that 19 hours of fire would cause damage.

It isn't a question of what I do not know. You are making the claim. BACK IT UP WITH EVIDENCE. Can you get your mind around that?

[DGM]

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.
Could you reference the ones that had little or no fire suppression for me? We might as well make an accurate comparison, right?

You might want to cross reference "truss framed" also. You do want the truth, right?

[PhantomWolf]

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.

They were probably too shy too.

How many steel skyscrapers in the US have been hit with planes and had the fires left to burn out of control?

Heck, how many steel skyscrapper fires have been left to burn out of control with ZERO fire control done at any point?

I don't even need to go to how many tube in tube steel skyscrappers in the US have suffered serious damage from impacts and then been left to burn uncontrolled cause the answer to all the above is exactly the same.

But hey, have fun comparing apples and oranges.

[boloboffin]

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.

http://ae911truth.info/tiki-index.php?page=Flame-Engulfed+Buildings

Please stop failing so hard. It's going to leave a mark.

[A W Smith]

As usual you failed to read the post.

with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

When did a 767 hit WTC 7?

did another building fall on Meridian Plaza?

[ULTIMA1]

How many steel skyscrapers in the US have been hit with planes and had the fires left to burn out of control?

You mean the planes that all reports state did not casue enough damage to be a cause of the collapse?

Heck, how many steel skyscrapper fires have been left to burn out of control with ZERO fire control done at any point?

I just showed 1 that burned for 19 hours, a lot longer then the WTC fires put together.

[ULTIMA1]

did another building fall on Meridian Plaza?

Whats that got to do with anything? You do know that structural damage is structural damage if its caused by a building falling nearby or by fire right ?

[PhantomWolf]

You mean the planes that all reports state did not casue enough damage to be a cause of the collapse?

The impacts that all the reports say were a factor in the collapse. See turther have this issue in their heads:

Impacts don't = collapse
Fires don't = collapse

Thus collapse can't happen.

They seem to forget:

Impact + Fires =

I just showed 1 that burned for 19 hours, a lot longer then the WTC fires put together.

But you didn't show that it burned for 19 hours (actually it was only 18, but let's not quibble) without any fire supression occuring. The fire being actively fought is a factir you aren't considering, along with numerous others. Simply declaring an orange is an apple, don't mean you can then compare it to an apple.

[PhantomWolf]

Whats that got to do with anything? You do know that structural damage is structural damage if its caused by a building falling nearby or by fire right ?

If structural damage can be caused by fire, then why is it so improbably that the WTC buildings suffered structural damge from their fires, damage that when combined with the damage from the impacts, cause their failure?

[Alareth]

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.


And as we all know, nothing can ever happen unless it has happened before.

You know, like every single truther argument or talking point.

[ULTIMA1]

And as we all know, nothing can ever happen unless it has happened before..

Well we do know that other buildings have had fires so its not the point that it has never happened before. Its just that no other building has collasped even though they had larger and longer lasting fires.

[PhantomWolf]

Well we do know that other buildings have had fires so its not the point that it has never happened before. Its just that no other building has collasped even though they had larger and longer lasting fires.

Fires that all had fire suppression and where only in a single part of the building at any given time, but hey, why bother noticing differences in the fires and building structures when you aren't really interested in the turth.

[Alareth]

Well we do know that other buildings have had fires so its not the point that it has never happened before. Its just that no other building has collasped even though they had larger and longer lasting fires.


You are still basing your entire argument on a platform of "It can't happen because it never happened before"

Your argument has no substance despite the constant repetition by yourself and others that share your conspiritorial beliefs.

It wasn't true the first time it was said and it never will be in the future.

[ULTIMA1]

You are still basing your entire argument on a platform of "It can't happen because it never happened before"

No i am basing it on facts and evidence of other fires in other steel buildings, is it that hard to understand?

[AJM8125]

You are still basing your entire argument on a platform of "It can't happen because it never happened before"

Your argument has no substance despite the constant repetition by yourself and others that share your conspiritorial beliefs.

It wasn't true the first time it was said and it never will be in the future.

No i am basing it on facts and evidence of other fires in other steel buildings, is it that hard to understand?

Stundie.

[ULTIMA1]

why bother noticing differences in the fires and building structures when you aren't really interested in the turth.

Well lets look at the truth.

The fires in the towers burned for less then 1 hour.

The fires in the One Meridian Plaza building burned for 19 hours.

Yet we are supposed to believe that fires buring less then 1 hour will cause a building to collapse when 1 burning for 19 hours did not.

[AJM8125]

Well lets look at the truth.

The fires in the towers burned for less then 1 hour.

The fires in the One Meridian Plaza building burned for 19 hours.

Yet we are supposed to believe that fires buring less then 1 hour will cause a building to collapse when 1 buring for 19 hours did not.

Those who know what the hell they're talking about believe it. Then there's you.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Well lets look at the truth.

The fires in the towers burned for less then 1 hour.

The fires in the One Meridian Plaza building burned for 19 hours.

Yet we are supposed to believe that fires buring less then 1 hour will cause a building to collapse when 1 burning for 19 hours did not.

If you had facts and evidence you would know what happened, but unfortunately, you are not interested in facts or evidence, but just trolling.

[ULTIMA1]

Those who know what the hell they're talking about believe it. Then there's you.

If you had facts and evidence you would know what happened, but unfortunately, you are not interested in facts or evidence, but just trolling.


Thats really sad.. I mean i get my information from fire experts and fire department sites and they agree that no steel building has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

Are those who you are talking about as knowing what they are talking about?

[boloboffin]

The fires in One Meridian burned for 19 hours because they were fought.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Thats really sad.. I mean i get my information from fire experts and fire department sites and they agree that no steel building has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

Are those who you are talking about as knowing what they are talking about?

That's really sad you don't do simple research first. Ever heard of Kader Toy factory. Please do research before posting.

[ULTIMA1]

That's really sad you don't do simple research first. Ever heard of Kader Toy factory. Please do research before posting.

Last time i checked that was not in the US.

I mean you should know if you did research that they have different buidling codes then the US.

Keep trying.

[UNLoVedRebel]

I mean i get my information from fire experts and fire department sites and they agree that no steel building has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.


I could show you a picture of a building that collapsed from fire. It's called facts and evidence.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/may2003/kade-m16.jpg

[UNLoVedRebel]

Last time i checked that was not in the US.

Keep trying.

That wasn't your original claim and it's irrelevant. Keep trying.

[PhantomWolf]

You know, no steel structured, truss floored, tube in tube, skyscraper, hit by planes, collapsed before 9/11 or since, must have been an inside job.

[ULTIMA1]

That wasn't your original claim and it's irrelevant. Keep trying.

So fun and easy to prove you wrong. My original posts and other have always stated buildings in the US. If you knew anythign at all you would know that other countries have different buidling codes.


Today, 12:40 PM #24
ULTIMA1
Graduate Poster

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.

[ULTIMA1]

You know, no steel structured, truss floored, tube in tube, skyscraper, hit by planes, collapsed before 9/11 or since, must have been an inside job.

Let me repeat for the cloased minded and evidence impaired.

No steel building in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

[Alareth]

Last time i checked that was not in the US.

I mean you should know if you did research that they have different buidling codes then the US.

Keep trying.

Does your goalpost have wheels on it or do you have to dig a new hole and carry it every time?

[UNLoVedRebel]

So fun and easy to prove you wrong. My original posts and other have always stated buildings in the US. If you knew anythign at all you would know that other countries have different buidling codes.


Today, 12:40 PM #24
ULTIMA1
Graduate Poster

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.

So fun and easy to prove you wrong. Your original posts and others have always stated steel buildings. If you knew anythign at all you would know that fire weakens steel regardless if buildings have different buidling codes.


ULTIMA1
Thats really sad.. I mean i get my information from fire experts and fire department sites and they agree that no steel building has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

[boloboffin]

So fun and easy to prove you wrong. My original posts and other have always stated buildings in the US. If you knew anythign at all you would know that other countries have different buidling codes.


Today, 12:40 PM #24
ULTIMA1
Graduate Poster

Let me say it again.

No steel shyscraper in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe before or since 9/11, even though many steel skycrapers have had larger and longer lasting fires and as much damage.

Let me link you again.

http://ae911truth.info/tiki-index.php?page=Flame-Engulfed+Buildings

You're comparing apples to potato salad.

[Alareth]

Let me repeat for the cloased minded and evidence impaired.

No steel building in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

Funny, I know of at least three.

[PhantomWolf]

Let me repeat for the cloased minded and evidence impaired.

No steel building in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

Well you know, most fire brigades and NIST would all disagree there. Care to redefine your statement more until you can exclude all the steel building collapses you don't want?

[Brainache]

Let me repeat for the cloased minded and evidence impaired.

No steel building in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

Is there some reason why the fire codes require fire proofing on structural steel? Or is that just disinfo for all those firefighting government shills?

[ULTIMA1]

Funny, I know of at least three.

Yes very strange, 3 in one area, same day, all owned by the same person.

[ULTIMA1]

Well you know, most fire brigades and NIST would all disagree there. ?

Well i guess you did not read the conclsuon of the original NIST computer model that stated neither the plane impact of fire casued the collaspe.

[AJM8125]

Anyone else notice that ULTIMA1 hasn't discussed why the interior firefighting effort was pulled (hehe!) from One Meridian?

[ULTIMA1]

Is there some reason why the fire codes require fire proofing on structural steel?

You do know that the fire proofing is only good for about 2 hours?

I mean you would if you did any research.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Yes very strange, 3 in one area, same day, all owned by the same person.

Larry Silverstein did not own the McCormick Place exhibition hall. Wrong again.

[ULTIMA1]

Anyone else notice that ULTIMA1 hasn't discussed why the interior firefighting effort was pulled (hehe!) from One Meridian?

Anyone else notice that beleivers fail to discuss that facts that the building burned for 19 hours and did not collapse.

[ULTIMA1]

Larry Silverstein did not own the McCormick Place exhibition hall. Wrong again.

Is that another name for WTC 1, 2 or 7?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Let me repeat for the cloased minded and evidence impaired.

No steel building in the US has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

So fun to prove you wrong with facts and evidence. The McCormick Place Exhibition Hall collapsed from fire.

[UNLoVedRebel]

Is that another name for WTC 1, 2 or 7?

No. Please be adult enough not to make irrelevant posts. I am only providing facts and evidence and you are ignoring the facts and evidence.

[AJM8125]

Anyone else notice that beleivers fail to discuss that facts that the building burned for 19 hours and did not collapse.

Oh, but we are discussing it. The differences in the type of structure and your failure to acknowledge that is where we're at.

[ULTIMA1]

So fun to prove you wrong with facts and evidence. The McCormick Place Exhibition Hall collapsed from fire.

Too bad is was just a warehouse and not a skyscaper and it was the roof that collapsed and not the building. You really should do reseaarch before posting.

[ULTIMA1]

Oh, but we are discussing it. The differences in the type of structure and your failure to acknowledge that is where we're at.

You mean the fact that they were both steel skyscapers?

[PhantomWolf]

Is that another name for WTC 1, 2 or 7?

Not to derail, but care to prove your claim that Silverstein owned WTC 1 or 2?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Too bad is was just a warehouse and not a skyscaper and it was the roof that collapsed and not the building. You really should do reseaarch before posting.

You said you did research from fire sites, not Jim Hoffman websites. It's not my fault if you don't like the facts and evidence.

the 1960 exposition hall was destroyed in a spectacular 1967 fire, despite being thought fireproof by virtue of its steel and concrete construction.

[ULTIMA1]

No. Please be adult enough not to make irrelevant posts. .

Please be adult enough then to admit when you are proven wrong.

[PhantomWolf]

Please be adult enough then to admit when you are proven wrong.

We will when you will.

[Alareth]

Anyone else notice that beleivers fail to discuss that facts that the building burned for 19 hours and did not collapse.

It's been pointed out to you in this very thread that the nature of the construction varies between the buildings under discussion.

The design of WTC 7 made it more susceptible to loss of structural integrity than your Meridian example.

Not all buildings are made the same way.

[stateofgrace]

You do know that the fire proofing is only good for about 2 hours?

I mean you would if you did any research.

Really?

So why exactly do they put fire proofing on steel framed buildings, if there is no danger of them collapsing from fire?

[ULTIMA1]

You said you did research from fire sites, not Jim Hoffman websites. It's not my fault if you don't like the facts and evidence.

Gee lets look at the facts. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/mccormick.html

1. McCormick Place is a warehouse-type building that housed a large exhibition hall.

2. McCormick Place incident was not a total building collapse -- it was only a roof collapse.

3. McCormick Place was steel and concrete, not all steel like the towers, buidling 7 and One Meridian.

[dtugg]

ULITMA1, do you still think that Daniel Nigro had WTC7 brought down and that he was somehow not part of the FDNY?

[UNLoVedRebel]

no steel building has collapsed from fire no matter how severe.

Please be adult enough then to admit when you are proven wrong.


Please be adult enough then to admit when you are proven wrong.

[ULTIMA1]

Not all buildings are made the same way.

Yes but would you say a buidling that burned for 19 hours would have more damage to the steel then a buidling that burned for just a couple hours?

[UNLoVedRebel]

Gee lets look at the facts. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/mccormick.html



That is Jim Hoffman's website. He works on computers, not buildings. Thanks for proving your sites are totally irrelevant.

[ULTIMA1]

Please be adult enough then to admit when you are proven wrong.

I have not been proven wrong, you have with the McCormick warehouse roof collapse.

[ULTIMA1]

Thanks for proving your sites are totally irrelevant.


Thanks for proving you are totally irrelevant by trying to compare a warehouse roof collapse to a skyscaper complete collapse.

[UNLoVedRebel]

I have not been proven wrong, you have with the McCormick warehouse roof collapse.

Yes you have, and no I have not. The building collapsed, but its foundation stayed intact, just like the twins. It's so fun and easy to prove you wrong with facts and evidence.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/wtc_overview_west_1-1.jpg

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/mccormick_fire.jpg

[UNLoVedRebel]

Thanks for proving you are totally irrelevant by trying to compare a warehouse roof collapse to a skyscaper complete collapse.

You're the one who said no steel building collapsed from fire and I proved you wrong with facts and evidence.

[ULTIMA1]

Yes you have, and no I have not.

So let me get this straight, you are trying to compare a warehouse roof collapse to a multi story skyscaper complete collapse?:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Also the fact that the warehouse is steel and concrete and the other buildings mentioned are all steel?

[stateofgrace]

Yes but would you say a buidling that burned for 19 hours would have more damage to the steel then a buidling that burned for just a couple hours?

Was that the same building that had just had a hijacked plane slam into it beforehand?

Can you please state,exactly,why fire proofing is applied to steel framed structures?

[ULTIMA1]

You're the one who said no steel building collapsed from fire and I proved you wrong with facts and evidence.

1. The building did not collapse only the roof.

2. The buidling is not steel it is steel and concrete.

[boloboffin]

Anyone else notice that beleivers fail to discuss that facts that the building burned for 19 hours and did not collapse.

From the page I have linked to twice:

One Meridian Plaza, Philadelphia, USA — February 1991
One Meridian Plaza burned in Philadelphia on February 23-24, 1991. Eight floors of this 38-floor structure were consumed in the 19+ hour burn.

The crucial differences between this building and 7 World Trade:


The building had a significant structural difference from the WTC buildings. Although it was steel-framed and a tube-in-tube structure, one side of the internal "tube" was adjacent to the exterior wall.
One Meridian Plaza suffered no crippling structural damage at the onset of the fire. It had the full benefit of its structural design working to redistribute shifting loads.
The fire was always in "one place". It may have been on several floors, but the fire moved as a whole through the building. 7 World Trade had fires on many different floors.
The fire was only in the upper floors of the building. It started on floor 22 and worked its way to the 30th. The full weight of the building was never concentrated on the fire zones, as in WTC 7.
The fire was fought throughout its burn by a dedicated team. This building was the only priority of the team, but a power failure forced internal fire supression to be conducted by handlight alone.
Operational sprinklers finally stopped this fire. Inoperable sprinklers let this fire burn so long, but a separate system on the 30th floor was the final trump card.

It is YOU who refuse to discuss this building.

[ULTIMA1]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Was that the same building that had just had a hijacked plane slam into it beforehand?

From the page I have linked to twice:



It is YOU who refuse to discuss this building.


Damage is damage weither it is caused by plane or by fire.

Also if you did any research you would know that the majority of reports have stated the plane impacts on the towers had no connection to the collapse.

[UNLoVedRebel]

So let me get this straight, you are trying to compare a warehouse roof collapse to a multi story skyscaper complete collapse?:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

For the second time no. I was proving you wrong.

Also the fact that the warehouse is steel and concrete and the other buildings mentioned are all steel?

Concrete handles better in fire than steel, that's why, in the Winsdor fire, the steel portion collapsed and the concrete portion stayed intact. Thanks for proving you know nothing about anything. And no, the WTC were not "all steel." It's getting boring proving you wrong all the time.

[dtugg]

ULITMA1, do you still think that Daniel Nigro had WTC7 brought down and that he was somehow not part of the FDNY?

So do you still believe this? If you don't I will take you out of my signature. Otherwise, I will leave it so that anybody who reads my posts can see your ignorance.

[stateofgrace]

Damage is damage weither it is caused by plane or by fire.

Also if you did any research you would know that the majority of reports have stated the plane impacts on the towers had no connection to the collapse.

Really? Care to support that claim?

Third time of asking why is fire proofing applied to steel framed stuctures?

[UNLoVedRebel]

1. The building did not collapse only the roof.

2. The buidling is not steel it is steel and concrete.

1. The roof is the building, the building collapsed, and its foundation stayed up, just like the twins.

2. The world trade center was steel and concrete.

[AJM8125]

damage is damage weither it is caused by plane or by fire.

Also if you did any research you would know that the majority of reports have stated the plane impacts on the towers had no connection to the collapse.

stundie.

[ULTIMA1]

For the second time no. I was proving you wrong.

No you have not, why can't you grow upand be adult enough to admit you tried to compare a roof collapse to a building collapse?



Concrete handles better in fire than steel, that's why, in the Winsdor fire, the steel portion collapsed and the concrete portion stayed intact. Thanks for proving you know nothing about anything.

Are the towers and building 7 steel only or steel and concrete. (please be adult enough to answer truthfully)

[ULTIMA1]

2. The world trade center was steel and concrete.

Pleae be adult enough to do research and to not lie in your post.

The WTC buildings were all steel.

[stateofgrace]

No you have not, why can't you grow upand be adult enough to admit you tried to compare a roof collapse to a building collapse?





Are the towers and building 7 steel only or steel and concrete. (please be adult enough to answer truthfully)

Please state, exactly, what part the concrete had in the structural support of the towers.

[AJM8125]

It is YOU who refuse to discuss this building.

And he is the one that brought it up.

He's also not aware that the interior fire fighting was pulled because they were concerned about what? Pancake collapse. Wonder of wonders.

[TheWeirdSkeptic]

Damage is damage weither it is caused by plane or by fire.

Also if you did any research you would know that the majority of reports have stated the plane impacts on the towers had no connection to the collapse.

Please read his post again.

I doubt at this point you care but you would realize why this statement just got stundied if you took the time to read his post.

[dtugg]

Pleae [sic]be adult enough to do research and to not lie in your post.

The WTC buildings were all steel.

Is it your position that there was no concrete the WTC buildings?

[UNLoVedRebel]

No you have not, why can't you grow upand be adult enough to admit you tried to compare a roof collapse to a building collapse?





Are the towers and building 7 steel only or steel and concrete. (please be adult enough to answer truthfully)

Steel and Concrete, that's why twoofers say there wasn't enough energy in the collapse to "crush concrete." You are so uninformed it's boring.


www.911-strike.com/powder.htm
With roughly 600,000 tons of concrete in each WTC tower, the available energy from gravitational potential energy was only about 0.7 kwh per ton of concrete. However, given the uncertainty in the size of powder, the available energy is "in the ballpark".

[ULTIMA1]

Please state, exactly, what part the concrete had in the structural support of the towers.


Can you read, i never stated the towers had concrete?

I am asking soneone if the towers were made of steel only or steel and concrete.

[UNLoVedRebel]

The WTC buildings were all steel.

Thanks for the stundie nomination.

[ULTIMA1]

Is it your position that there was no concrete the WTC buildings?

Gee, are you really that uniformed?


Just some concrete for the floors. But the buidling themselves were made from steel.

[jhunter1163]

stundie.

Damn. Beaten again.

Ultima: The mass of each Tower is estimated at around 500,000 tons, or 1 million tons for both. 200,000 tons of this was structural steel. What was the remaining 800,000 tons made of?

[dtugg]

Gee, are you really that uniformed?


Just some concrete for the floors. But the buidling [sic] themselves are made of steel.

So the entire building but some concrete on the floor is steel?

[TheWeirdSkeptic]

Damn. Beaten again.

Ultima: The mass of each Tower is estimated at around 500,000 tons, or 1 million tons for both. 200,000 tons of this was structural steel. What was the remaining 800,000 tons made of?

I would say pixie dust.

[ULTIMA1]

Steel and Concrete, that's why twoofers say there wasn't enough energy in the collapse to "crush concrete." You are so uninformed it's boring.



How many times can you be wrong kid.

Do you know how to do research?

The towers were bult from steel, the only concrete was for the floors.

[stateofgrace]

Please state, exactly, what part the concrete had in the structural support of the towers.


Really? Care to support that claim?

Third time of asking why is fire proofing applied to steel framed stuctures?

Well?

[AJM8125]

How many times can you be wrong kid.

Do you know how to do research?

The towers were bult from steel, the only concrete was for the floors.

So you're saying the floors aren't a structural element?

[jhunter1163]

Maybe it was that Invisicrete™ I keep hearing about.

[UNLoVedRebel]

The WTC buildings were all steel

concrete was for the floors.

It's official. ULTIMA1 has been debunked.....by himself.

[stateofgrace]

So you're saying the floors aren't a structural element?

He as no idea and I mean NO idea what he is saying or talking about.

[PhantomWolf]

How many times can you be wrong kid.

Do you know how to do research?

The towers were bult from steel, the only concrete was for the floors.

Are you saying that the floors weren't part of the towers?

[dtugg]

I wonder if ULTIMA1 has ever convinced anybody of anything in the many, many, many hours he has spent trolling the Internet.

[jhunter1163]

I wonder if ULTIMA1 has ever convinced anybody of anything in the many, many, many hours he has spent trolling the Internet.

I'm convinced he's never been a police officer, an NSA analyst, or ever been close to classified information.

[AJM8125]

or ever been close to classified information.

Now that's not fair. I'm sure somebody has to move all those shredded documents to the collection bin.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I'm appalled that a handful of you are chasing this headless chicken around in an almost equally spasmodic manner.

[stateofgrace]

Can you read, i never stated the towers had concrete?

I am asking soneone if the towers were made of steel only or steel and concrete.

Again please state your understanding of exactly what part the concrete played in supporting the towers,(Hint...... the concrete was on the floor trusses).

It’s not a trick question, anybody who as taken the slightest bit of interest in the construction of these buildings would be able to answer.

Yes, the towers were made of steel and concrete; please state your understanding of the relationship between the two.

When you are ready.

Oh, forth time of asking, why are steel framed structures fire proofed?

[Grizzly Bear]

No you have not, why can't you grow upand be adult enough to admit you tried to compare a roof collapse to a building collapse?
The example isn't intended to be a structural comparative to the twin towers, nor is that what he is claiming. Any claim that involves "no steel structure has ever collapsed due to fire" or that "steel cannot fail in fire" is demonstrably proven false by the failure of the steel frame roof. If you think that steel is utterly indestructible in fire then you're choosing some very disappointing sources for your information on steel construction. I can judge from you many posts that you have not read one piece of literature from any one publication from an engineering website or resource.

Incidentally, you've just shown the same hypocrisy that redibis has been pointed out for having. You seem content to point out that the Kader toy factory, or other examples are constructed totally different than the towers yet you refuse to apply the same considerations for every other example you present. I would advise that you begin practicing what you preach and start researching real case studies of these buildings, rather than spend your days trolling with monumental jibberish to receive some kind of attention.

Are you adult enough to post a case study on the buildings you feel represent your case in point, and explain what parts of the comparative are relevant to the discussion at hand, or is trolling with ad hominems the only substance you care to offer? I'm interested in hearing your analysis, case studies detailing each of your examples should offer you substantial information which you can use, please feel free to make use of any you feel are relevant

[beachnut]

Funny how the believers keep ignoring the fact that their have been other steel skyscrapers in the US with larger and longer lasting fires, and as much structural damage as WTC 7, BUT DID NOT COLLAPSE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Meridian_Plaza_fire
The fire at One Meridian Plaza was the worst high-rise fire in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania history, as well as the costliest in United States history.

The blaze, which burned for 19 hours, raged from the 22nd floor to the 30th floor before a sprinkler system installed by a tenant on the 30th floor extinguished the flames.[1] The fire eventually went to 12-alarms and consumed the resources of 51 engine companies, 15 ladder companies, 11 specialized units, and over 300 firefighters. The fire would also claim the lives of three firefighters, and injure two dozen more.

Funny, you made my Sunday late night coke spewing contest.

And now the rest of the story!

You have picked a building totaled by fire. Yes, it was destroyed by fire, even though the fire was put out by the sprinkler system.

OMG, the sprinkler system in WTC7 did not work!

Oops #2, One Meridian Plaza fire was fought by firemen until they feared failure, then they left!

OMG, WTC7 fire was not fought at all.

You have two buildings destroyed by fire (yes Virginia, One Meridian Plaza is not standing due to fire, it was disassembled) but One Meridian Plaza had firemen fighting it, and a fire system that was working!

Darn, another truther fest lacking knowledge and sound judgment.



http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/onemeridiansag.jpg

One Meridian Plaza - It was destroyed by fire. Great example for 9/11 truth, classic truther logic in many ways as usual. Good job.

Self debunking, self refuting – 9/11 truth, apologizing for terrorist 7 years with the same lack of evidence you have come to expect.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

If you think that steel is utterly indestructible in fire then you're choosing some very disappointing sources for your information on steel construction.


He seems to recognize the damage to the steel members that the One Meridian Plaza fire caused. I think the mind-bogglingly insane idea that he's trying to convey is that... no matter how long a fire lasts; no matter how intense that fire is; no matter how much damage it does to the structure itself... a building made from steel just won't collapse. Period. The fire might cause the building to twist and warp into the shape of a bunny rabbit, but collapsing is entirely out of the question.

[Hokulele]

He seems to recognize the damage to the steel members that the One Meridian Plaza fire caused. I think the mind-bogglingly insane idea that he's trying to convey is that... no matter hot long a fire lasts; not matter how intense that fire is; no matter how much damage it does to the structure itself... a building made from steel just won't collapse. Period. The fire might cause the building to twist and warp into the shape of a bunny rabbit, but collapsing is entirely out of the question.


Apparently, if it goes down slower than free-fall, it isn't a collapse. :rolleyes:

[CORed]

If you keep repeating something irrelevant long enough, it becomes evidence.

[CORed]

In the truther world, Occam's Razor is unknown. Now, I'm not a structural engineer, architect, or any kind of expert at all, but when a large plane hits a building with a full load of fuel, starts a massive fire, and then collapses an hour or two later, I don't have to be any of those things to conclude that by far the most likely explanation for the collapse is that the combination of the impact and the fire damaged the structure of the building so badly that it collapsed. Certainly it's useful for the investigators to work out the details of how it collasped, but, absent conclusive evidence of some other cause, claims that the impact and fire couldn't possibly have caused the collapse, or the fact that numerous other buildings that were constructed differently and weren't hit by planes didn't collapse due to fires isn't very convincing.

It's sort of like the truther sees you drop a brick on your toe, and sees you are in pain, and tells you that the pain means you have cancer and need to amputate your foot immediately.