Why I am angry at atheists.

[Mojo]

When you say, "But God made the Universe! How else could there be a Universe?" we answer, "The Universe simply is." Not that I disagree with you, but were I a theist, I wouln't find this answer at all satisfying.


As an atheist, I'm not terribly satisfied with "the universe simply is". Neither are a lot of physicists, I suspect, whatever their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Saying "the universe exists because God made it" just moves the "it simply is" back a step.

[yrreg]

Just in case you are interested in constructive exchange on atheists' and theists' positions on God, please read the post reproduced below.


Please give some attention to the latter half of this post from me , and no longer give vent to your anger against me.




[...]


[I]
I said that it is very or almost impossible to have any constructive exchange with atheists, but there is hope with these two messages I came upon from presumably atheists:




Originally Posted by Autolite


Posted by yrreg
At this very moment I am angry at atheists here in this JREF forum, because I find them impossible to talk with constructively.

It's difficult to achieve "constructive" debate due to the very nature of issues themselves (Theism vs. Atheism). There is no common starting ground. Atheistic argument is logic/reality based whereas theistic argument is faith/delusion based. What you perceive as anger or hatred is likely a manifestation of the frustration that many Atheists feel (due to the futility of such discussions). As I've often said, it's like trying to win at a game of chess when the other guy is playing "dungeons and dragons"...





Originally Posted by MattusMaximus
Welcome to the Forum, Ordover!

Posted by Ordover
There is no point in discussing the issue until we have arrived at a shared definition of what is meant by the word God.
Yeah, good luck. Trying to get people to agree upon a shared definition of God around here is like trying to herd cats... which is kind of the point - "God" is an arbitrarily defined thing!


Quote:
That said, to me, things exist if they can be shown to exist, usually by demonstrating how they interact with other things. I see no evidence of anything interacting with the progession of events other than the operation of physical laws.



Sounds like a simple use of Occam's Razor to me. Why postulate the existence of God, or the supernatural in general, when it isn't necessary?





That is a very constructive suggestion, that we put up a list of concurring ideas.


First agreement is that things exist, starting with you and me.

Next is what?

What about...? better, you atheists advance some ideas for me to concur in with you.
Yrreg






[...]

Shall we now proceed to bring up ideas we can and are concurring in with one another, instead of wasting words to no purpose but to whet our appetite for animosity.


Number one idea we all concur in:


Things exist, starting with you and me.


Now, you continue with bringing up ideas which you are proposing to me for my concurrence.




Yrreg






please proceed to my next post and contribute some constructive reactions to my citation of the definition of God, from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the atheists of Finland.



Yrreg

[Dysphemist]

please proceed to my next post and contribute some constructive reactions to my citation of the definition of God, from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the atheists of Finland.



Yrreg

Wait, did you want atheists to tell you the what your god is? He's benevolent and malicious, forgiving and vengeful, blood thirsty and jealous and angry. Do you agree with this?

Or did you want atheists to make a list of everything that is true, starting with "we exist"?

[yrreg]

Here is the definition of God from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the Atheists of Finland.



Atheist Association of Finland

Free Dictionaty of Atheism

God: A deity or a god, is a postulated supernatural entity, usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by humans. They assume a variety of forms, but are frequently depicted as having human or animal form. Sometimes it is considered blasphemous to imagine the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal. They are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions much like humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other "acts of God”, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of every aspect of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behaviour, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

http://www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm




I think generally the atheists of Finland give a substantially acceptable definition of God in their dictionary of atheism from their part as atheists.


For myself I think the line at the end put in bold by me says the whole concept of God quite adequately as to do Him justice, namely:

Creator of the earth or the universe.


Notice that the atheists of Finland take the care to mention at the very start of their definition, their position that God is an entity postulated by humans.

So there is really no danger of their committing themselves to the existence of God by their definition of God.




Yrreg

[Zep]

Things exist, starting with you and me.God doesn't exist. He, she or it is imaginary.


Are we done now?

[Belz...]

I see yrreg doesn't actually read any of the replies he gets.

[Evolved Wookie]

I see yrreg doesn't actually read any of the replies he gets.

Either that, or he doesn't like pie.

yrreg; why are you so angry at pie?

[Dave Rogers]

For myself I think the line at the end put in bold by me says the whole concept of God quite adequately as to do Him justice, namely:
Creator of the earth or the universe.
That seems a hopelessly inadequate definition of God; for one thing, it doesn't require his continued existence following the act of creation, for another it says nothing about his morality. I can tell from your own posts that your own personal conception of God is vastly more complex than is contained in this gross over-simplification. I suggest you try to be a little more honest with yourself.

Dave

[jond]

Just in case you are interested in constructive exchange on atheists' and theists' positions on God, please read the post reproduced below...


Yrreg

Yrreg: If you are interested in constructive exchange on atheists' and theists' positions on God, please read the responses you've received.

You might want to start with the very rational and thoughtful response from Tricky.

[Darth Rotor]

What are you talking about ? Vulcan is most definitely responsible for volcanic eruptions. Hence the name. Sheesh.
He lives in Sicily, under Mount Etna. ;)
I DO NOT BELIEVE GOD EXISTS.

I am not "rebelling" or anything. My position is one of honest disbelief. There is nothing I see in my life that leads me to the conclusion that this god exists.
... Satan most definitely knows that god exists. He is not an atheist, he is a rebel.
I wish more people would recognize the sense in both of those observations.
I, for one, have a problem with most theists, and for one reason only -- they have a problem with me. I am angry at theists because theists started being angry at me first.
I'm not angry at you for being atheist. Based on the premise that a choice is made to follow Christ or not, choices are made, and so for reasons of your own you make a choice. This is consistent with there being a choice. How can one be angry about that? If that is what works for you, then Vaya con Dios, amigo -- wait a minute, that's Vaya sin Dios, amigo to be more accurate and somewhat punny! :)
Don't you get that yrreg? You got it totally backwards in your OP. Atheists aren't angry at God. Why would we be? We are angry with the behavior of many of those who claim to believe in God.
*Sith voice*

Anger leads to hate, and hate leads to the Dark Side.

The admonition to "let go of your anger" in one that actually works in real life, not just in movies. FWIW.

DR

[Mojo]

I think generally the atheists of Finland give a substantially acceptable definition of God in their dictionary of atheism from their part as atheists.


So why do you then disregard virtually all of it in favour of a single phrase which you cherry-pick (and misquote)?

[Foster Zygote]

Now, you continue with bringing up ideas which you are proposing to me for my concurrence.

Before changing expensive components like pickups, one should make sure that less expensive components like pots and caps are of good quality, as they can greatly effect tone as well. Also, a good patch cable can have a bigger effect on overall tone than the pickups. And I always recommend a treble bleed consisting of a 100K resistor and a .001 cap soldered in parallel across the input and output terminals of the volume pot.

[Blackadder]

I started reading this thread in the hope I would learn something.

I just realized I won;t learn anything new. All the good replies from various JREF posters are old news. Sure between the hundreds of replies a great new thought may occur. But I can spend my time better, reading other (better) JREF threads with many more great posts from people here. Threads were smart people are debating with other smart people. Therefore I promised myself never to read any thread started by this yrreg again.

[Tricky]

Here is the definition of God from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the Atheists of Finland.
Atheist Association of Finland

Free Dictionaty of Atheism

God: A deity or a god, is a postulated supernatural entity, usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by humans. They assume a variety of forms, but are frequently depicted as having human or animal form. Sometimes it is considered blasphemous to imagine the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal. They are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions much like humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other "acts of God”, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of every aspect of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behaviour, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

http://www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm (http://www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm)



I think generally the atheists of Finland give a substantially acceptable definition of God in their dictionary of atheism from their part as atheists.

For myself I think the line at the end put in bold by me says the whole concept of God quite adequately as to do Him justice, namely:
Creator of the earth or the universe.
Notice that the atheists of Finland take the care to mention at the very start of their definition, their position that God is an entity postulated by humans.

So there is really no danger of their committing themselves to the existence of God by their definition of God.

Yrreg
Since you seem to have missed an important word, let me highlight it for you in your quote.

You see, the Atheists of Finland have just given you some examples of what a concept of God may entail. It does NOT assert that the definition of God MUST include "creator of the universe", just that SOME do.

I know you don't bother to read our posts, but you should at least try to read your own.

[RoboTimbo]

yrreg, the topic of the thread is you being angry at atheists.

Why are you so slavering at the mouth, maniacally enraged at atheists? Where does your total and overriding hatred of atheists come from? Why do you impugn their characters with your projecting? Why do you admonish them to commit suicide?

Who do you think you are? GOD??

So, let's break down your demoniacal detestation of atheists a point at a time, shall we? Ok, you give me your definition of your loathing of atheists. Let's see if we can come up with some agreement on your overweening hostility towards atheists.

Then we can work backwards towards your dominating fascination with homosex and masturbation. Note that I am not accusing you of BEING homosexual, just that you have taken an odd possession of it.

How do you think those work in with your abhorrence of atheists? Is there some connection between your animus towards atheists and your aversion to reading posts that don't agree with you?

I don't think we're examining your acrimony towards atheists enough in this thread which is about your antagonism at atheists.

Ok, spew some more of your venomous hatred towards us atheists and Buddhists.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

yyreg: Why do you hate god?
EE: (everyone else): I don't he doesn't exist.

yyreg: Why are you angry at god?
EE: I'm not. God doesn't exist.

yyreg: I think it is wrong for you to hate god.
EE: You can't hate something that you don't think exists.

yyreg: You shouldn't be angry at god.
EE: But I'm not.

yyreg: Your hatred of god makes me angry at you.
EE: I don't hate god because there is no such thing.

yyreg: Why do you hate god?
EE: I don't hate god.

yyreg: But you shouldn't hate god.
EE: Is there something about "I don't hate god because he doesn't exist" that you don't get?

yyreg: See, you hate god.

Yup. That seems to sum it up. Any possibility we could just go on with our lives now? Or does the saga continue for a few more cycles? :scared:

[Belz...]

He lives in Sicily, under Mount Etna. ;)

I thought he moved to Hawaii.

[EvilBiker]

Having just read through the 7 pages of this thread, I have one question:

Who/what is this "god" entity which you all mention?

[Mojo]

For myself I think the line at the end put in bold by me says the whole concept of God quite adequately as to do Him justice, namely:

Creator of the earth or the universe.


Which one do you think He created? And who do you think created the other one? Did He sub-contract some of the work or something?

[Grimoire]

Fixed that for you, G.

*facepalm*

Thanks.

[Ashles]

You see, the Atheists of Finland have just given you some examples of what a concept of God may entail. It does NOT assert that the definition of God MUST include "creator of the universe", just that SOME do.
Exactly.

Mars is/was considered a god.
Mars is/was not considered by anyone to have created the universe.

It's not really very hard to understand.

I guess Yrreg really is having to work hard to ignore every single word of every reply here.
How can he type with his hands over his eyes?

[Shalamar]

It seems that after reading this thread (And wanting to plkuck out my eyes after doing so) The problem with Yrreg is a simple one.

Yrreg believes in God. He's a fundamentalist believer and can not comprehend of someone who does not believe in god. All he can think is: 'They say God does not exist. I know he exists, therefore he exists. That means that these Atheists also believe in God, they must hate him!'

Yrreg thinks that Atheists believe in God, but that they just don't like God! That is where the confusion seems to be coming from. He wants Atheists to define God, so he can either say 'I agree, and see! God does exist!' or 'No! Thats not god! You're wrong! See, god exists!'


So lets repeat: Atheists do NOT hate God. They just have no belief in gods existence.


May the Force be with you.

[m_huber]

While there are many things we can agree on, the first thing we need to agree is that we will respond to each other. Yrreg, constructive discourse works when one party presents a thesis, a second party responds, and then the first party responds to the second party. In the case of this thread, you have made a thesis statement, received numerous replies, but then instead of responding to the responses, you made another thesis statement (almost identical to the first).

If you want to compile a list of things we can all agree on, why not make a new thread? This one is about your anger at atheists.

And, even though it has been stated two dozen times already, I would like to chime in that I am not angry at God. I simply see no reason to believe in him/her/it, as there are naturalistic explanations for all phenomena that we have observed thus far (inclusive of the moon).

[Dancing David]

Yeah, but the trickiest chakra points (http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/chakra.html) to align are the three used in black magic that are located in the lower pelvis. Since everyone knows that the best way to realign one's chakras is with flashing colored Christmas lights (see Penn & Teller season 6 episode 2) the logical solution for aligning the lower three chakras would be to take a bundle of Christmas lights, which need to be plugged in, and forcibly insert them into the nearest available orifice.


Disclaimer: This is not directed at a specific member, as it's just a general statement that fundies (who love thesaurus insults, telling people what to think, and spelling things backwards) should prefer Christmas light enemas.

i always though you aligned those charkas with virorous sexual calesthetics.

[Belz...]

Who/what is this "god" entity which you all mention?

We're talking about Quetzalcoatl, actually.

[uruk]

Not that I disagree with you, but were I a theist, I wouln't find this answer at all satisfying.

Well it's technically the same answer a theist gives when asked "where did god come from".

So we know the universe exists because we experince the universe every moment of our lives. Experiancing god is not quite as certain as our experiance of the universe.

There is no debate in that we experiance the universe (solipsists not withstanding) and consider it to exist. It is highly debateable that god exists.

I think its easier for me to accept that "the universe has always been" than "god has always been".

[Belz...]

So we know the universe exists because we experince the universe every moment of our lives. Experiancing god is not quite as certain as our experiance of the universe.

And not only because of the subjective nature of it all or its lack of replicability, but also because some people experience other gods entirely.

[m_huber]

I thought he moved to Hawaii.

You're thinking of Madame Pele (http://www.coffeetimes.com/pele.htm)

[MattusMaximus]

Now, you continue with bringing up ideas which you are proposing to me for my concurrence.

Sex is like pizza - even when it's bad it's still pretty good.

[Lrrr]

1. Things exist, starting with you and me.
2. Pie is good. Mmmmm!
3. I like turtles!
4. Happiness is a warm puppy.

[Mojo]

I like turtles!


All the way down?

[articulett]

:confused:All theists? You ought to try mixing with a different breed of wooists... many, many of the ones I have known over the years are exceedingly funny, in a humourous way


Nah... I'm probably just noticing the hits... the loudest theists here seem to have no sense of humor and the most uproariarious are heathens.

[RoboTimbo]

Nah... I'm probably just noticing the hits... the loudest theists here seem to have no sense of humor and the most uproariarious are heathens.


But the vocal theists do provide lots of unintentional humor.

[articulett]

Indeed. 'Tis the Season.

[Elizabeth I]

Nominated for pith:

The mythical Satan most definitely knows that god exists. He is not an atheist, he is a rebel.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I am not really angry at atheists in the same way that atheists are angry and hating God.

If you don't believe me, just read my posts here in re atheists, and read the posts of atheists against God and against Christians.

yrreg, atheists are not "angry and hating God". You continue to ignore it when we say that.

Why should I accept that you aren't angry at atheists when you obviously have such an axe to grind with us?

How about the following?

yyreg, why are you angry and why do you hate the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

It will do you no more good to deny that you hate the FSM and that you are angry than it does us atheists to make a similar denial of your erroneous assumptions.

I will ignore all your denials of being angry and hating the FSM. I will ignore it any time you say that the FSM does not exist or that you don't believe the Noodly One exists.

Instead, I will just keep demanding you to answer the question, "Why are you so angry and why do you hate the FSM?"

So . . . why is that? Wouldn't you be happier if you weren't angry at the FSM? Wouldn't you be less angry if you weren't atheistic with regard to the FSM? (Ooops! You didn't realize that you are an atheist too!??)

[Mick Houlahan]

I didn't read the whole thread so this may be redundant. The troll has asked what makes one "embrace" atheism. Atheism requires no embrace. Atheism is the default position until evidence supporting theism is shown. Pretty simple concept that theists often can't seem to comprehend.

[Minarvia]

Indeed. 'Tis the Season.

Yes, it is. And now I can laugh more when reading this thread instead of being disturbed by it. Thanks! :)

[LarianLeQuella]

When I ask them what they have for an idea of God, they will react with they don't believe in God so they don't have to give any idea of God.

Okay, to help you out, we don't believe in god, and the idea of god is YOUR delusion. I don't collect stamps either, so if stamp collecting is your hobby, I'll leave it to you to explain it...

But for the purpose of this thread, tell me what you find hateful or unacceptable with God.

The hate, murder, rape, incest, slavery, falsehoods, inconsistencies, pettiness, jealousy, etc. I think your bible outlines it rather nicely for anyone with intellectual integrity. Just start in Genesis.

[Belz...]

Nominated for pith:

Pith ?

[I Ratant]

Which one do you think He created? And who do you think created the other one? Did He sub-contract some of the work or something?
.
If you look, you'll find all the "creation" after the light one was outsourced to the Far East.
The Indian subcontinent in particular, where the idea of god was embraced wholeheartedly by Hinduism, which has millions of gods, each responsible for a single aspect of living, as living -is- a complex situation.
It's all laid out in the #1 commandment... "Thou shalt have no gods -before- me."
Subcontracting is perfectly acceptable, just remember who gets most of the tithes.

[boooeee]

Pith ?


Yeth.

[DC]

Tell me what you find unacceptable with God.

that he is blessing fat white greedy people in the USA and Europe while he lets starve innocent black kids in Africa.
He is totaly nuts or totaly incompetent. Or like i belive, he is not there.

That he is not doing anything against pedophile Pastors that abuse kids in Churches.
He is unable to protect young belivers from his own priesters? Incompetence or not there?

[X]

yrreg: I have one simple question I would like you to answer.

Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

I'm not trying to be funny, and I'm not trying to mock you.

Please answer.

[yrreg]

Yrreg: If you are interested in constructive exchange on atheists' and theists' positions on God, please read the responses you've received.

You might want to start with the very rational and thoughtful response from Tricky.


I like to answer one by one the contributors to this thread, but the time and work involved is really to me overwhelming and the return for constructive mutual enlightenment is overwhelmingly unpromising.

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.


If any atheists care to talk about God, please do it here but without anger, follow the style of the atheists in Finland in their publication of an online Dictionary of Atheism.




Yrreg

[Darth Rotor]

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.
yrreg, you don't speak for me, and I take some offense that you tried to. Please knock that crap off. Atheists are people too, yrreg, and some of them are damned nice people I happen to know personally, people I don't care to see slighted and insulted.

Thanks
DR
An American

[Silentknight]

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.

The fact that American theists distrust atheists weakens, not strengthens your arguments. It lends support to the fact that religiously motivated bigotry is still alive and well, and that people still hold irrational fears towards those they do not understand. Given the apathetic attitude you've demonstrated towards even attempting to understand those who believe differently from you, it doesn't help your case at all to bring up the exclusion of nonbelievers from the banner of religious tolerance.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=1786422&page=1
http://www.asanet.org/cs/root/topnav/press/atheists_are_distrusted

[Eskarina]

Sorry, to barge in so late and to reply only to selected quotes of the OP, but...

When I ask them what they have for an idea of God, they will react with they don't believe in God so they don't have to give any idea of God.


I don't know about other atheists, but I, for one, am not going to waste my precious time here pondering on the nature of every god, goddess, goddidit, godling, pantheon, thetan and whatnots invented by other human beings, for the same reason I don't do lottery.

Apart from the FSM, of course. I can easily spend hours pondering on the nature of Spaghetti Bolognese. Or Spaghetti Alfredo. Or preparing a delicious meal of Spaghetti all'arrabiata. (Admittedly, that's not going to take hours.)

I ask them why are you angry atheists, they insist that they are atheists but not angry atheists or angry but not for being atheists.


They couldn't possibly be telling the truth, could they?

Nah, you can't imagine it, so it's impossible.

Which to my observation is not really so, because it is obvious when I and anyone read their posts here and in other forums they are angry, and their anger is due to their being atheists, in other words, they are angry at God and theists.


I know you're not going to believe this, but I find it very hard to be angry at someone posting on an Internet forum and much less at something I don't even think exists.

From my part I am angry at atheists because they don't want people to practice religious acts in state-financed places like public schools, and they want to remove religious structures like giant crosses in public lands.


And from my part, I am angry at some theists who try to tell me how I should live on religious ground only.

In his connection more generally I am angry at atheists because they target Christians principally in their hostility to God, but God is their number one target; since they can't hit God, they go after Christians and everything Christian to vent out their hatred.


So,you wouldn't mind so much if atheists went after Scientologists or Muslims or Shintoists or...

Why do I get visions of that "Leave Britney alone" video here?

Please atheists here in this forum, choose just one thing I am angry at you people for, and see if we can talk about it without you getting unruly in your words.


Oookay, let's talk about which god entity I should choose.


Lastly, I really think that atheists, who have the same mentality as with convert to atheism, Zygote Foster, are not being reasonable and intelligent in professing that atheism gives them "rational consistency and guiltless masturbation," because according to my idea of human reason and intelligence, it is not reasonable and not intelligent to see rational consistency and be able to practice masturbation without feeling guilty, by embracing atheism.


From Britney Spears to Shakespeare's "Much ado about nothing". That's quite a leap.

Personally, I haven't reached the point of rational consistency yet, but I do enjoy guiltless masturbation.


Anyway, since the way I see it God is the anti-center piece of the atheists' worldview, let me try to understand again, i.e., to penetrate into the true psychology of atheists; but this time I will direct my interest on what you atheists find unacceptable with God, the God of Christians, and my description of God is summed up in the following words in the Apostles' Creed, the words in bold below:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.


Reading the bible, I found that the god depicted there is a narcissistic barsteward (and full of contradictions, too) who doesn't deserve my worship, even if I could believe in him. It's pure soap opera, like the Greek or Roman pantheon, except it's a one-man-show.


In atheist forums I got banned for writing the way I write here, but the atheists there used all kinds of the most filthy words against me and they don't get any so much as a warning.


Ah, the old "Form over Substance" fallacy!


And all I was doing there was to show them that for being atheists they do engage in hate against God and theists, even though they keep insisting that they don't, basically because they don't believe in God therefore they can't hate God.


As my German teacher would have said: "Redundant! Setzen, sechs!"


What about hating theists?


Yeah, what about it?

I said in another forum, why people in America take atheists to be the most distrusted minority in their midst, it is for being atheists they are like driving on the left side of the road, whereas everyone is driving on the right side of the road.


As a German saying goes: "Read Bild! 40 billion flies can't be wrong."

Except that they do it not in the traffic but in their hearts and minds, and thus also express their hearts and minds in their acts, like stopping children from praying in public schools and removing structures of religion from public places.


And thus the schools and public places became dangerous and vicious places, I'm sure. Or will become. Or maybe not.

Let me try again in this thread with this specific question to atheists here in this JREF forum (which is the most hospitable to me so far, because it is not dedicated to atheism but to critical thinking), this question namely:


Tell me what you find unacceptable with God.


Which god-entity are we talking about, again?


Snipped for Shakespeare's sake.

[Madalch]

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do...

And once again you insist that atheists actually -do- believe in God, but have turned away from him/it/them.

One cannot have a constructive discussion with a parrot. Try reading what has actually been written in response to you, instead of repeating your incorrect, nonsensical and insulting garbage again and again and again.

It is hypocritical of you to complain about the anger of atheists while doing your best to insult, belittle and otherwise anger us.

[slingblade]

Y'know, I just LOVE IT when someone starts a thread and then cries "I'm too busy to respond!"

It looks a lot like an excuse.

[RandFan]

If any atheists care to talk about God, please do it here but without anger

EE: But we're not angry.

YREG: Please do it without hate.
EE: We don't hate.

YREG: Your anger exposes your hate.
EE: There is neither anger or hate.

YREG:To deny your anger is to prove your hate.
EE: There are none so blind as they who will not see.

YREG: So why do you allow your anger to cause you to hate?
EE: {sigh}

[bruto]

I like to answer one by one the contributors to this thread, but the time and work involved is really to me overwhelming and the return for constructive mutual enlightenment is overwhelmingly unpromising.

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.


If any atheists care to talk about God, please do it here but without anger, follow the style of the atheists in Finland in their publication of an online Dictionary of Atheism.




Yrreg

You really seem to be incapable of wrapping your mind around this.

God is not the reason atheists are atheists. NO GOD is the reason. If you cannot fathom the difference, intelligent discourse will never happen.

When you come up with an adequate explanation for why all the things that do not exist do not exist, and why you are angry at nothing for being nothing, then perhaps we can frame a discourse on God that meets your criteria.

However, I don't think you can do it, because I don't think you can understand what I'm saying. You have not managed so far to evince even a beginning of understanding here.

[Mojo]

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists...


Nope. You still don't get it, despite everything that has been posted in this thread: the lack of any evidence for the existence of any of the postulated entities known as "gods" is the reason for atheists being atheists.

You will not be able to have any "constructive exchange" with anyone as long as you ignore what everyone is posting.

[six7s]

Before changing expensive components like pickups, one should make sure that less expensive components like pots and caps are of good quality, as they can greatly effect tone as well. Also, a good patch cable can have a bigger effect on overall tone than the pickups. And I always recommend a treble bleed consisting of a 100K resistor and a .001 cap soldered in parallel across the input and output terminals of the volume pot.What a fascinating post!

Oh, yeah... maybe it - relative to teh wrest of teh whirled - is quite run of the mill

a 100K resistor and a .001 cap soldered in parallel across the input and output terminals of the volume pot.Would the solder be rather brittle at 100K?

[Marcus]

In which case then you can just keep repeating in your next post the following message:
"For me God does not exist, period."

Why would he want to do that? The question is does God actually exist, if he did he wouldn't exist "for" one person or another. Mount Everest will continue to exist whether I believe in it or not. Your belief in Sky Daddy cannot make him real.

[AngelicAtheist333]

LMFAO! The OP can't be serious....

Okay.

Answer to your question (in a series of steps):

1. Re-read every singe one of your posts.
2. Re-read everyone else's responses to your questions
3. Think outside of yourself and your god.
4. Put it all together! :D

Any questions? If you are confused on my post please PM me or respond with a quote. :D

[six7s]

...the lack of any evidence for the existence of any of the postulated entities known as "gods" is the reason for atheists being atheists.Not all atheists

The very young (aka the innocent) lack the 'skills' to employ willful ignorance (aka 'blind belief'), which is a prerequisite for accepting the unsubstantiated woo that is the dogma of theism

[AngelicAtheist333]

EE: But we're not angry.

YREG: Please do it without hate.
EE: We don't hate.

YREG: Your anger exposes your hate.
EE: There is neither anger or hate.

YREG:To deny your anger is to prove your hate.
EE: There are none so blind as they who will not see.

YREG: So why do you allow your anger to cause you to hate?
EE: {sigh}

Kudos. :wackynotworthy:

[RandFan]

Kudos. :wackynotworthy::)

Thanks.

It's amazing that someone can come onto a forum and make absurd statements over and over and refuse to engage in any meaningful dialog. I can only assume that yrreg's narcisism is to such a degree that he only cares about the attention. He is, IMO, a troll. But that's fine. I'm happy to feed his ego so long as I can mock him at the same time.

[arthwollipot]

Just in case you are interested in constructive exchange on atheists' and theists' positions on God, please read the post reproduced below.



please proceed to my next post and contribute some constructive reactions to my citation of the definition of God, from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the atheists of Finland.



Yrreg

Just in case you are interested in constructive exchange on atheists' and theists' positions on God, please read the post reproduced below.
I don't understand what you're asking for, yrreg. Do you want us to start posting random things so that you can tell us whether you agree with them or not? What are you after? I'd like to help, but unless you give me something to work with, I'm going to find it hard.

[AngelicAtheist333]

:)

Thanks.

It's amazing that someone can come onto a forum and make absurd statements over and over and refuse to engage in any meaningful dialog. I can only assume that yrreg's narcisism is to such a degree that he only cares about the attention. He is, IMO, a troll. But that's fine. I'm happy to feed his ego so long as I can mock him at the same time.

Yeah! XD

I'm not sure whether he is or not. But I think your right. It could just be that he could be that thick, or simply refuses to acknowledge anyone else's opinion that cannot line up with his. As if he has already decided what the answer is before he asks his question, and seeks only that kind of answer, disregarding other possible truths. D:

[RandFan]

Yeah! XD

I'm not sure whether he is or not. But I think your right. It could just be that he could be that thick, or simply refuses to acknowledge anyone else's opinion that cannot line up with his. As if he has already decided what the answer is before he asks his question, and seeks only that kind of answer, disregarding other possible truths. D:Fair point. It's easy to declare someone a troll. Perhaps too easy. I think it fits but your options are fair possibilities.

[bruto]

What a fascinating post!

Oh, yeah... maybe it - relative to teh wrest of teh whirled - is quite run of the mill

Would the solder be rather brittle at 100K?Why are you angry at the solder?

[MattusMaximus]

Why am I angry at this thread? ;)

[arthwollipot]

I didn't read the whole thread so this may be redundant. The troll has asked what makes one "embrace" atheism. Atheism requires no embrace. Atheism is the default position until evidence supporting theism is shown. Pretty simple concept that theists often can't seem to comprehend.Actually, this is one of the main sticking points between atheists and theists. Atheists consider atheism to be the default position, and a person has to do something extra in order to believe. Theists consider the opposite. For them, belief is the default position. They think that atheists are the ones who have to do something extra in order to disbelieve. I for one happen to think that they're wrong and you're right. Yrreg appears to firmly believe that theism is the default position, and that seems to me to be the source of most of his misunderstanding about what atheism really is.

[Elizabeth I]

Pith ?

A pithy statement expresses a complicated or profound concept clearly in just a few words. The Pith Awards are, or used to be, a subset of The Language Awards.

Come to think of it, I haven't seen any polling on pith lately.

Oh, well...

[RandFan]

Actually, this is one of the main sticking points between atheists and theists. Atheists consider atheism to be the default position, and a person has to do something extra in order to believe. Theists consider the opposite. For them, belief is the default position. They think that atheists are the ones who have to do something extra in order to disbelieve. I for one happen to think that they're wrong and you're right. Yrreg appears to firmly believe that theism is the default position, and that seems to me to be the source of most of his misunderstanding about what atheism really is.:mad: Now I am angry.

And I've got a headache this big.

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4792/thisbigyf9.jpg

Coincidentally that's the size of a fish I caught one summer but that's another story.

[Dysphemist]

Why am I angry at this thread? ;)

Is it because after nine pages the issue has not developed at all? Or that this thread has made it this far?

[bruto]

I am angry at this thread because, unlike some things, it exists, where it shouldn't.

Conversely, I find for some reason that I am not at all angry about Yrreg's use of intelligence.

[articulett]

:mad: Now I am angry.

And I've got a headache this big.

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4792/thisbigyf9.jpg

Coincidentally that's the size of a fish I caught one summer but that's another story.

That reminds me of a joke...

Why do girls love Jesus?

Because he's hung like this:

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4792/thisbigyf9.jpg

When dealing with theists, humor helps --and keeping your expectations very low. Remember, they do not want discussions... they do not want their "questions" answered-- they are here to preach their viewpoints in an attempt to convince themselves. Engage them for entertainment purposes only. And if you can't talk to them, you can always talk about them. :fg:

[Roadtoad]

Yrreg, you have no interest in listening to people who disagree with you. You're a moral and intellectual coward and demonstrated by your (non)responses to people.

I do not believe there is a God. There is no evidence for God's existence. If anything, there is more evidence which would suggest God's absence, part of which includes your behavior.

I do not hate God. I cannot hate what does not exist. Choosing to hate what does not exist is not hating God, it is better referred to as psychosis. Given that I am not psychotic, I do not hate God.

There. Does that clear it up for you? Or are you psychotic?

[RandFan]

When dealing with theists, humor helps --and keeping your expectations very low. Christians want to share beliefs. Theirs. They're not much interested in anyone else's.

[RandFan]

Why do girls love Jesus?

Because he's hung like this: Do you remember the old excederin commercials?

Q8c2pYBmLxE

I saw a great spoof once that went "my husband has a penis this big and now I've got a headache".

[articulett]

tee-hee

If theists are angry at atheists and find them mean and impossible, then why do they insist on hanging out on a forum comprised mostly of heathens?

Perhaps JREF has the secret allure of a "Den of Iniquity"...

[RandFan]

Perhaps JREF has the secret allure of a "Den of Iniquity"...I could tell you some stories. When I was a true believer I knew that alure. I really went off the deep end waxing eloquent of the sin of the flesh and the evils of the godless. Then like the typical minister (Ted Haggard, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart) I would end up in a bar or adult book store.

Funny thing is, I gave up religion and my sex addiction went away. Though I confess to a couple years of therapy.

[arthwollipot]

tee-hee

If theists are angry at atheists and find them mean and impossible, then why do they insist on hanging out on a forum comprised mostly of heathens?

Perhaps JREF has the secret allure of a "Den of Iniquity"...Well, in at least one case we know. Kurious Kathy bragged on another forum that she and her mate were here to preach to heathens. You get brownie points for doing that.

When I was a churchgoer, I regularly heard people boasting about how many people they'd witnessed to in the last week.

[JoeTheJuggler]

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.


If any atheists care to talk about God, please do it here but without anger,


While I'm waiting for you to answer my question, why you hate the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I would like to direct you, yrreg, to a very specific item, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, because He is the reason for people who are atheist with regard to the FSM for disbelieving in His divine Noodliness and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans.

If yrreg would care to talk about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, please do it here but without anger.

[articulett]

Winning souls for Jesus gets you heaven bonus points.

Anyhow, their "mission" keeps this place lively. And they always come out in force during the Xmas season. I think they like to imagine themselves persecuted for their faith (rather than dismissed because they are so annoying.)

[six7s]

Christians want to share beliefs. Theirs. They're not much interested in anyone else's.
Its My Way

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:AGe3OJXxP3Ec3M:http://bp1.blogger.com/_9cNEFpUa7c0/R_RMAzqUwJI/AAAAAAAAAe4/jwqWTRZhzPk/s400/jesus_finger.jpg

Or teh Highway

[six7s]

Would the solder be rather brittle at 100K?Why are you angry at the solder?It's not this solder, in particular, nor even all solders... they're merely teh prawns that bind teh cocktail

Or something...

Oh... I dunno...

I'll now get back to my knitting; I'm following a lovely pattern from the May Clough Knott-Waugh school

[zooterkin]

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.


Well, I suppose if you believe in God, you'd have to believe that he was the reason for the existence of atheists. So, then, you'd need to ask yourself why God would create something that was flawed. Surely God's creation is perfect? In that case, the existence of atheists proves that God doesn't exist.












Well, makes just as much sense as any of yrreg's ramblings.

[kurious_kathy]

Well, in at least one case we know. Kurious Kathy bragged on another forum that she and her mate were here to preach to heathens. You get brownie points for doing that.

When I was a churchgoer, I regularly heard people boasting about how many people they'd witnessed to in the last week.
Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??

[six7s]

Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??Dear Kathy, dear, sweet innocent, naive, lost, deluded, WRONG Kathy, please...

This is critical thinking forum

Maybe you'd be happier at www.forums.mylittlepinkpony.com (http://www.example.com)

[Foolmewunz]

Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??

It has a spybot.... its name is mentioned and it shows up.

Alternate theory: There is a Dog. I was praying for another fundy troll to play with. Et, Voila!

[kurious_kathy]

I could tell you some stories. When I was a true believer I knew that alure. I really went off the deep end waxing eloquent of the sin of the flesh and the evils of the godless. Then like the typical minister (Ted Haggard, Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart) I would end up in a bar or adult book store.

Funny thing is, I gave up religion and my sex addiction went away. Though I confess to a couple years of therapy.
RF if you were a true believer and born again I am not sure you could have fallen away? Satan does go after believers to try to get them back but if you have the Holy Spirit you do not want to give into sin again because you know it's killing you, don't you see that?

Were you a Mormon? Mormons are not Christians even though they try to say they are. They do not have Jesus right or the true gospel. Could it be you were in a cult?

[kurious_kathy]

Dear Kathy, dear, sweet innocent, naive, lost, deluded, WRONG Kathy, please...

This is critical thinking forum

Maybe you'd be happier at www.forums.mylittlepinkpony.com (http://www.example.com)

Oh so you don't think critical thinkers want to find God? I disagree if that's what you are stating here. I just think critical thinkers like to create a lot of questions to keep themselves occupied or busy. Just my perception of course and I myself do ask lots of questions, especially Why??

[wollery]

RF if you were a true believer and born again I am not sure you could have fallen away? Satan does go after believers to try to get them back but if you have the Holy Spirit you do not want to give into sin again because you know it's killing you, don't you see that?

Were you a Mormon? Mormons are not Christians even though they try to say they are. They do not have Jesus right or the true gospel. Could it be you were in a cult?Kathy, a lot of people here were once christian, most belonged to mainstream christian churches. Some were even "born again".

Have another go.

[kurious_kathy]

Yrreg, you have no interest in listening to people who disagree with you. You're a moral and intellectual coward and demonstrated by your (non)responses to people.

I do not believe there is a God. There is no evidence for God's existence. If anything, there is more evidence which would suggest God's absence, part of which includes your behavior.

I do not hate God. I cannot hate what does not exist. Choosing to hate what does not exist is not hating God, it is better referred to as psychosis. Given that I am not psychotic, I do not hate God.

There. Does that clear it up for you? Or are you psychotic?
Oh I see it's not just me, you just like being mean to most Christians, can I ask you WHY? Isn't your wife a Christian too?? I would like to just ask you to think that perhaps you are just trying to fight God getting through to you somehow? Ever heard the term "What you resist, persist??

[six7s]

Oh so you don't think critical thinkers want to find God? I disagree if that's what you are stating here. I just think critical thinkers like to create a lot of questions to keep themselves occupied or busy. Just my perception of course and I myself do ask lots of questions, especially Why??Many, many critical thinkers have spent a hell of a lot of time looking...

Trouble is, it has been proven that all of those who pretend to know how to find a god are exceedingly, mind-numbingly, fantastically deluded

Or lying

Or both

Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibility that one day, someone might be able to reveal a god

Alas, given your track record, I'd be very, very surprised if that person was you

But... if you have ANY evidence that supports your god, please do present it

In the meantime, please stop trolling this forum

Thank you

Now run along and play with your pony

[kurious_kathy]

If you insist on talking about the Christian god, then I object to it because according to the Bible, he either behaves like a monster, a jealous child, or an absentee father (or some combination). This whole doctrine of sin and repentance and forgiveness is insane and dehumanizing. The notion of trying to dictate people's thoughts and actions through fear of torture is simply evil.

But that's not why I don't believe in it. I don't believe for the same reason you don't believe in Ra. But in the Christian's god case, I also *hope* it doesn't exist.

Still angry?
Well how do you think Jesus felt hanging there on that cross? Do you think he felt dehumanized? He did not desrve it, we did! He loves us enough to die in our place, can't you see God's Son was the only one who could save the world?

[Mashuna]

Well how do you think Jesus felt hanging there on that cross? Do you think he felt dehumanized? He did not desrve it, we did! He loves us enough to die in our place, can't you see God's Son was the only one who could save the world?

Don't forget Flash Gordon.

[six7s]

Well how do you think Jesus felt hanging there on that cross? Do you think he felt dehumanized? He did not desrve it, we did! He loves us enough to die in our place, can't you see God's Son was the only one who could save the world?For the hard of thinking:

PLEASE STOP TROLLING THIS THREAD WITH INANE WAFFLE ABOUT SOME FICTIONAL CHARACTER FROM OUR LITERARY PAST

[kurious_kathy]

Many, many critical thinkers have spent a hell of a lot of time looking...

Trouble is, it has been proven that all of those who pretend to know how to find a god are exceedingly, mind-numbingly, fantastically deluded

Or lying

Or both

Of course, that doesn't rule out the possibility that one day, someone might be able to reveal a god

Alas, given your track record, I'd be very, very surprised if that person was you

But... if you have ANY evidence that supports your god, please do present it

In the meantime, please stop trolling this forum

Thank you

Now run along and play with your pony
History has proven Jesus lived on this earth and suffered persecution. Satan just keeps trying to devour true history and this is a real problem. I suppose you will next try to tell me the holocaust never happened too?

And please think about what people suffered just to write the Bible, that says a lot too. So many people died just so we could have God's word, who do you think was behind that evil? If you haven't seen the DVD called "The Indestructible Book" I strongly suggest you do it will give you a new respect for the Bible.

[Fiona]

Kathy, at the risk of embarrassing him, I want to say this: as I have seen Roadtoad on this board, he is not a mean person. For the most part he is a kind, thoughtful, respectful person who writes very well and listens to other points of view. Can you say the same?

People are not "being mean" to you and Yrreg: but I, for one, am appalled by your manners. What right have you two to waste everybody's time? You are not typical of the religious people I have known, who are mostly folk who have really thought about some of the big questions in life and who have taught me a great deal about ethics and morals and stuff: I greatly value some of the insights they have given me, although we obviously differ on much. You and Yrreg, on the other hand, are satisfied with slogans and you think we should be too; or so it seems to me. You both made up your minds what we think and you refuse to change your minds no matter how many times you are told you are wrong on those facts. How dare you suggest that atheists believe in God, when they tell you they don't? How arrogant that is. Is pride not a sin? How dare you suggest that someone who has truly thought about what he or she believes in all sincerity is "fighting God"? Following Christ's way? was there nothing in the Christ of your imagination of respect for the individual? of humility? Perhaps not. How dare you tell someone that they are atheist because their previous religious belief as wrong and cultish? So you think you have the one and only truth? How can you think that God speaks so badly that only a select few can understand what he is saying? And if you do think that how can you be so presumptuous as to be sure that it is your little sect who understood properly and every one else got it wrong?

I am not mean to Christians, Kathy: I try not to be mean to anyone. But you and Yrreg are insulting people gratuitously. I know you cannot see that, but it is true. I do not find it surprising that you get a bad reception sometimes: it is not because you are a Christian: it is because you are a boor

[six7s]

History has proven Jesus lived on this earth and suffered persecution.Umm... ok... so a nice guy got strung up... not nice, but it wasn't the first time - and, sadly, it won't be the last

But...

But....

So freakin' what?

Being a nice guy and being killed does not automagically make said nice guy a god, does it?

SatanWhoa!

Who?

]Satan just keeps trying to devour true history and this is a real problem. No

This is purely fictional story; not a problem

Please, try harder to think

I suppose you will next try to tell me the holocaust never happened too? Why do you suppose that,Kathy?

Cos you're clutching at straws, that's why

And please think about what people suffered just to write the Bible, that says a lot too.No

It doesn't

Or, rather, it says NOTHING of relevance to a Religion & Philosophy discussion on a critical thinking forum

So many people died just so we could have God's word, who do you think was behind that evil? If you haven't seen the DVD called "The Indestructible Book" I strongly suggest you do it will give you a new respect for the Bible.Seriously, Kathy, with your track record I doubt if a drowning man would follow your advice to get out of the bath

[tanstaafl28]

I'm a newcomer here, and an atheist, and I take exception to your accusation that all atheists are either angry, or evasive.

Part of your frustration stems from the fact that it is virtually impossible for most theists to fully comprehend or appreciate what it means to be an atheist, because most theists are incapable of considering the world from an atheist's point-of-view. This inability to "...walk a mile in our shoes" puts you at a distinct disadvantage when trying to understand something that is essentially beyond your willingness to even consider.

What I find unacceptable about the concept of god is that it represents primitive metaphysical superstitions, undermines rational thought, and signifcantly retards human progress. We do not need to fear invisible supernatural beings in order to live meaningful lives. We can do what is right for its own sake. Instead of dreaming of an "afterlife," we can make this world a better place for everyone.

I find no compelling evidence, nor any "special insight" that would lead me to believe there is an "all powerful supernatural parent" who made us, petulantly demands our devotion, and will punish us with eternal damnation and torture if we do not give into those demands. I understand why some people persist in the need to believe in some sort of being, but I do not share that need.

As my heritage is entirely Western, most of my experiences is with the "Big Three" Judeo-Christian religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam (particularly Christian, as it is the dominant religion of my ancestors, as well as in the United States).

I have traveled extensively, and I have seen the remnants of civilizations that predate the Western monotheisms, what made what they believed in so "wrong" and what makes Western religion so "right?" Additionally, the major themes and stories found in Western religions were not original to any one of them, in fact, nearly every major civilization in the region where these religions were founded told similar tales of a virgin birth, and a god who dies and is resurrected.

As for the argument that without god(s), humanity could not be moral, I see no reason why this should be the case. I accept that I am responsible for my actions, and that I must determine to the best of my ability, what is right and good and take action accordingly. I do this not because I crave eternal rewards, or fear eternal punishments, rather, because I feel it is the right thing to do.

I do not require god(s) to explain why I am here. I do not fear the consequences of seeing the universe as a cyclical series of random events. Yet I consider myself to be spiritual in the sense that I never stop seeking to better myself, and others, through self-actualization, and self-transcendence. I recognize that I am part of something bigger than myself, but I do not have to personify, or dogmatize it.

While I am a free agent of change, I do not have to consider the world in dualistic terms of "absolute good versus absolute evil" (the only people I've ever heard of who seem proud to consider themselves "evil" are serial killers). I have a code of conduct that I adhere to. I like to help others when I can. I believe in good manners. I treat others as I would want them to treat me, and I don't care whether they return the favor. I somehow manage to do all of this without any notion that god(s) exist.

IMHO, there is no truer test of "faith" then being willing to let go of what one believes in and fully accept the possibility that those beliefs might not be true. Without this willingness, there can be no "true faith," only ego. I have taken this test myself, and I can live with myself

If I have failed to satisfactorily answer your question, please feel free to let me know, and I will be happy to try and clarify any points.

[Evolved Wookie]

Don't forget Flash Gordon.

God ain't got nothing on Flash Gordon. Flash only had forteen hours to save the Earth and he - quite empirically - managed it.

Now, if god could do that, thing's would be a whole lot different.

(*ponders wondering aloud about whether Topol would play Jebus, but suspects that might be asking fo a warning*:boxedin:)

[Foolmewunz]

Tanstaafl28,
Welcome to the forums. A couple of points...
You've arrived in an Yrreg thread. If you feel better, pour your heart out, but he doesn't listen. And that Kurious Kathy thing? Listens but when you say "kumquat", she hears "fires of Hell", and when you say "window shades", she hears, "Christ died for you". (Kathy's a bit of a monomaniac. Yrreg's an all purpose abuse-oid... if it ain't atheists, it's buddhists. If it ain't buddhists, it's telling us how to live better as citizens of the universe.)

Secondly, before you get too well known, you might want to PM one of the administrators ("Darat" and/or "Lisa Simpson") and go for a name change. We have a fairly well known Tanstaafl already, and you're bound to create confusion. It's a unique name, after all.

[six7s]

Secondly, before you get too well known, you might want to PM one of the administrators ("Darat" and/or "Lisa Simpson") and go for a name change. We have a fairly well known Tanstaafl already, and you're bound to create confusion. It's a unique name, after all.:confused:Yeah?

There ain't no such thing as a folk lore?

Results 1 - 10 of about 230,000 for tanstaafl (http://www.google.com/search?q=tanstaafl&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&sa=2)

Oh, and by the way, Great post, tanstaafl28! :)

[Foolmewunz]

:confused:Yeah?

There ain't no such thing as a folk lore?

Results 1 - 10 of about 230,000 for tanstaafl (http://www.google.com/search?q=tanstaafl&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&sa=2)

Oh, and by the way, Great post, tanstaafl28! :)

Well since all 230,000 entries probably refer to the same thing (the acronym), I can't see the point in the volume. (I googled Banana Farts and got 386,000 total.)

If he had "Old Bob" or "Library Lady" or "six7s", I'd probably have given him the same advice.

Skeptics! Sheeesh! :spjimlad::spjimlad:

[six7s]

Ever heard of that guy called John?

[Mojo]

I googled Banana Farts and got 386,000 total.


I can't see him in the members list. Has he been banned?

[six7s]

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,400 for tanstaafl28 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=tanstaafl28&btnG=Search)

:)

[Twiler]

Ideally, we would to work out what Kathy and Yrreg disagree about, then leave them to argue in the burnt-out remains of a thread.

[yasbet]

Have you ever laughed at a child who believes in Santa Clause? I have. Does that mean I hate santa or that I am angry with him? Is it wrong to find santa unacceptable? Do I find him hateful (maybe to kids that are not good). Do I have to accept him? Now because I laugh at santa and those kids that believe in him are you going to be angry at me? There is no difference between god and santa. Kids believe in santa, adults believe in god. Adults are like kids that don't want to know the truth because then they can't believe in him anymore.

I was challenged to read books like "the egyptian book of the dead", "the pagan christ", "the god delusion", etc. and I was shocked at what I found. I challenge you, yrreg, to do the same. Don't read it to find things wrong with them, just read to try to understand why I believe what I believe. Don't read the christian versian of them. You will just get more of man's teachings rather than facts. Haven't you ever wondered why so many religions have the same king james bible? They all have a christ (different name), born of a virgin, started preaching at 12, turned water into wine, etc.

Just like you will never be able to convince me that santa is real, you will never be able to convince me that god is real. Yes, I did believe in him for years. Was terrified of hypnosis not realizing that I was experiencing and practicing forms of it in church. I was even taught forms hypnosis but it was all in the name of god and just part of the worship service.

Darn, you probably won't be able to read any of the suggested books for fear of faultering in your faith or maybe even opening yourself up to satan.

Christians don't want to change or even want to learn why athiest believe what they believe. They aren't suppose to read anything that might show them the truth so most will never be educated. They will stay believing in god just like kids believe in santa. Both don't want to hear or know the truth! They say we walk around with blinders on our eyes when actually it is them with the blinders on.

I suffer from a genetic condition. I read the bible and believed it as a history book. I obeyed it's teachings as I was taught in the church. I searched my heart for sin and got close to god so that I could be healed. When I still didn't get healed then I was told that it was "the sins of the fathers", now more praying and fasting and binding of spirits etc. Guess what, I still have a genetic condition.

I was taught that athiest didn't have morals. Christians don't have them. Their belief it to forgive and forget. Sin all you like then simply ask god to forgive you and it is forgotten forever. They don't even have to be accountable for their sins if they are sorry. Problem is, they are just sorry they got caught or it wouldn't keep happening.

Trust me, very few christians will change because they are too brainwashed. Just like believing in santa, believing in god can be exciting too. Kids can't imagine life without santa as adults can't imagine life without god. Kids have imaginary friends that seem real. Adults have god that seems real. No one can convince them otherwise. In an age where we have access to everything, there is no reason why christians should stay stupid and uneducated, but they are kept busy trying to convert educated people. Once someone learns and understoods who santa really is, could they ever really believe in him again? Once someone truely understands who god is and where he originated from they won't be able to believe in him.

Keep yipping on about athiests. It is impossible for them to change if they are a true educated athiest (unless they want to make money in the church). Christians will pay to go hear a converted athiest speak!

[six7s]

Ideally, we would to work out what Kathy and Yrreg disagree about, then leave them to argue in the burnt-out remains of a thread.Research in this field, being undertaken by the Sisters of Our Lardey of Perpetual Motion, promises to provide a solution to the world energy crisis

Trouble is, no-one has ever seen them in the same place at the same time

:boggled:

[six7s]

Just like you will never be able to convince me that santa is real, you will never be able to convince me that god is real. What? Not even if a guy in the shopping mall, dressed in sandals and robes, promises you an eternal gift?

Wow! Some people are SO hard to please!


;)

Welcome to the forum, yasbet!

[devnull]

yeh, we've been there about a dozen times in this thread yasbet :) round we go again......


and welcome!

[jond]

I like to answer one by one the contributors to this thread, but the time and work involved is really to me overwhelming and the return for constructive mutual enlightenment is overwhelmingly unpromising.

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God, because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.


If any atheists care to talk about God, please do it here but without anger, follow the style of the atheists in Finland in their publication of an online Dictionary of Atheism.




Yrreg

Many posters have answered this already, but since you answered me I'll chime in. I'm not an atheist because of "god." I'm an atheist because I don't believe in gods. None of them. There's no anger involved. I don't need a definition from Finland to know that there isn't a single god in the history of mankind that I believe in. My children didn't come out of their mother's womb believing in "god", and since they weren't indoctrinated in the concept, they only began to hear about it in school. They viewed your christian god in exactly the same way they viewed Zeus and Apollo and Ra: myths, ancient legends. Not real. As teenagers now, they do not seek god, they do not feel that something is missing from their lives. They don't drink, smoke, do drugs, or hang with kids who do*. They do play the holy hell out of their guitars and basses, however. And get good grades too. Not a hint of anger. Yrreg: the bulk of the anger I've seen in this (and your others) thread is from you.

*Really. When they hang with their friends, its usually here, where all the cool gear is.

[Belz...]

A pithy statement expresses a complicated or profound concept clearly in just a few words. The Pith Awards are, or used to be, a subset of The Language Awards.

I see. Thanks.

I wasn't aware that my statement was that profound, however. I thought it was common knowledge...

[Belz...]

Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??

We're actually having a discussion, here. Since you're obviously not intent on participating, would you please leave ?

[arthwollipot]

Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??I attended an Assemblies of God church for about two years - the same denomination as Sarah Palin. I left because everyone in the church was just like you.

[RoboTimbo]

Oh so you don't think critical thinkers want to find God? I disagree if that's what you are stating here. I just think critical thinkers like to create a lot of questions to keep themselves occupied or busy. Just my perception of course and I myself do ask lots of questions, especially Why??


To keep yourself occupied or busy?

[Dancing David]

Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??

I was a X Science member and then a jesus person, and then I realized that jesus was a teacher, one of my faves. But the followers allegedly of jesus had corrupted the message. I still follow the message. But i was fed up with the hatered, which jesus did not preach, I was full of the scorn , derision and bigotry of churches. So i wanted to follow jesus and free myself of it. But unfortunately the prejudice, bigotry and close mindedness still predominates the churches.

Relevant question Kathy, do you keep a kosher household? Jesus never said not to.

I also found that I am a pagan nihilist buddhist. That is the way that AL made me.

[Dancing David]

RF if you were a true believer and born again I am not sure you could have fallen away? Satan does go after believers to try to get them back but if you have the Holy Spirit you do not want to give into sin again because you know it's killing you, don't you see that?

Oh my, so you don't believe that god has all power? You believe that god would fragment themselves and give power to a lesser force for evil?

Why Kathy? Why would you fracture god.

I believe the quote is 'god is one', or maybe 'one is the lonliest number'.

The Holy Spirit is the quiet manifestation of AL (which can not be described), do people fall dead because they aren't Xians? Why is that Kathy?

Do you really think god is one, or many?


Were you a Mormon? Mormons are not Christians even though they try to say they are.

Ooops there is that bigotry. Love thy neighbor but condemn them and gossip about them , be sure to say snarky things about them. That is not very jesus like.

They do not have Jesus right or the true gospel. Could it be you were in a cult?

Uh huh, pride goes before a fall Kathy, you need to clean out your heart.

[Dancing David]

Well how do you think Jesus felt hanging there on that cross? Do you think he felt dehumanized?

Are you sure you read the bible, why did jesus feel bad in the garden the day before his arrest? Did jesus feel that god had chosen his path for jesus? Are you sure you are a Xian, you seem to be dividing god and denying god's choice to send jesus to the cross.

Wow, blasphemer.

He did not desrve it, we did!

So god didn't do it? So god did not choose to kill jesus, are you sure you read the bible? 'Please let this cup pass from me....'

He loves us enough to die in our place, can't you see God's Son was the only one who could save the world?

Don't you know that Innanna hung on the wall for three days, dead?

Can't you see Innanna was the only one who could save the world?

[Darth Rotor]

Christians don't want to change or even want to learn why athiest believe what they believe.
You just did what yrreg did.

Your mother must be so proud of the money you wasted on what she thought was your education.
Christians will pay to go hear a converted athiest speak!
It makes some Christians happy to hear stories about those who found their way to Jesus. So what? If you read the JREF forums, you will find that it makes some skeptics and atheists happy to see someone leave Christian faith and adopt atheism. So what?
I was taught that athiest didn't have morals. Christians don't have them.
Raise the bar. "Having morals" and being consistent in applying and following them are two different things, as is the difference between theory and practice.
Trust me, very few christians will change because they are too brainwashed.
Trust me, that was an idiotic statement.

All those barbs aside, welcome to the forum. Arguing in stereotypes and sneers doesn't do much but show that you are venting. Is that your purpose?
Were you a Mormon? Mormons are not Christians even though they try to say they are.
Kathy, what color kilt are you wearing today?

I hear that Mormons are actually called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That would indicate to me that they are in harmony with Jesus Christ being the Son of God, through whom comes salvation, which would make them Christian, since that principle is one that any Christian sect or deonomination agrees upon.

You can argue that Joesph Smith was a false prophet, and that the Mormons have strayed from orthodoxy, if you like, but so have a few hundred other sects, to include yours from the point of view of the Pope and the Patriarch.

DR

[Dancing David]

I'm a newcomer here, and an atheist, and I take exception to your accusation that all atheists are either angry, or evasive.



Welcome.

[Dancing David]

Welcome.

[bruto]

And please think about what people suffered just to write the Bible, that says a lot too...... I sure does. Among other things, it says you haven't thought very much about the circumstances under which most of the scriptures were written (after all the great bulk were written by the Hebrews within their own ascendant culture). One other thing it says, if you care to think about it, is how savage, intolerant, bigoted and vicious Christians can be to each other, since much of the suffering that leads to the Bible you now read was inflicted by the Catholic church on those heretics who attempted to translate it.

I venture to say that the Christians who slaughtered each other for translating the Bible were as sure they were right then as you are now. They studied deeply, consulted holy writ, prayed fervently to God for guidance and knew in their hearts that they were getting it; they tortured their victims with the zeal of the righteous, and as their adversaries burned at the stake, they felt the heat and light of Christ's enduring love. You'll likely say that they were not "true Christians," but it's not even close to being that simple. They had your kind of certainty, and your kind of pride.

[Marcus]

We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth.
All that's needed is four or five exclamation points, then everyone will definitely believe you.

[RoboTimbo]

I like to answer one by one the contributors to this thread, but the time and work involved is really to me overwhelming

But you seem to find time to start new threads after abandoning old ones that you can't answer.

and the return for constructive mutual enlightenment is overwhelmingly unpromising.

You have that exactly right, just not in the way you believe.

So I try to direct posters here to a very specific item, God,

But the topic of this thread is your broiling rage at atheists. Please address that. It is, after all, YOUR topic.

because He is the reason for atheists being atheists and harboring in their hearts and minds and enacting in their behavior all the things they do, which earn them a most negative impression from their fellow Americans, namely, they are the most distrusted minority in the US.

Don't strawman me, bro!

If any atheists care to talk about God, please do it here but without anger, follow the style of the atheists in Finland in their publication of an online Dictionary of Atheism.

You mean, "Please do it in another thread, it would be off topic for this one."


Yrreg (with fingers in ears saying, "numb numb numb numb...")

[RandFan]

RF if you were a true believer and born again I am not sure you could have fallen away? Satan does go after believers to try to get them back but if you have the Holy Spirit you do not want to give into sin again because you know it's killing you, don't you see that?

Were you a Mormon? Mormons are not Christians even though they try to say they are. They do not have Jesus right or the true gospel. Could it be you were in a cult?Oh yes, use critical thinking when it comes to Mormonism but shut it off when it comes to Christianity.

How do you know Mormons are a cult? Doesn't that require the use of skepticism and critical thinking? What good is skepticism and critical thinking if you only use it to justify your world view?

If you honestly look at your own beliefs the way you look at others you won't be a Christian for long.

[articulett]

Ideally, we would to work out what Kathy and Yrreg disagree about, then leave them to argue in the burnt-out remains of a thread.

That would require that they show the ability to listen to others, reflect back what they said, and define their own viewpoints instead of spending their time deriding atheists.

I'm skeptical that this could happen, because I've seen no evidence of such capabilities in either.

But woo fights would be fun. I enjoy watching assorted believers in "divine truths" go at it. It reminds me of a mental facility where several patients think they are god. Or this.

N4Sw4z8YXmg

[Foster Zygote]

yrreg, you don't speak for me, and I take some offense that you tried to. Please knock that crap off. Atheists are people too, yrreg, and some of them are damned nice people I happen to know personally, people I don't care to see slighted and insulted.

Thanks
DR
An American

You sir, are a true mensch.

[Roadtoad]

Why do you call it bragging? We care enough about peoples souls to share what we know is absolute truth. JESUS IS THE TRUTH AND THE WAY! Can I ask what kind of church you use to attend? What was the main reason you stopped going??

Because, Kathy, you're not here to discuss. You're here to preach.

I know people like you. They go to websites like this, and on Sunday, they stand about and "testify" how they're witnessing to the lost. It's a game, Kathy. It's about show. It's not about "go."

You're not a Christian. You're playing at being one. It's embarassing. You are even embarassing my wife. Please stop.

Go. Away.

(At this rate, I'm going to run out of colors pretty damn quick.)

[fuelair]

All that's needed is four or five exclamation points, then everyone will definitely believe you.
I was actually thinking bolded large multicolored letters to go with that..... :D

[Roadtoad]

Hey! I resemble that remark!!!!!

[Tricky]

Don't forget Flash Gordon.
Indeed. as it is written in the book of Queens, Chapter 8, verse 5:

"He saved, with a mighty hand
Every man, every woman, every child, everybody
Flash."

[RandFan]

Indeed. as it is written in the book of Queens, Chapter 8, verse 5:

"He saved, with a mighty hand
Every man, every woman, every child, everybody
Flash."Second reference that brings to mind Freddy Mercury in as mandy days. Freddy, we miss ya.

[yrreg]

tee-hee

If theists are angry at atheists and find them mean and impossible, then why do they insist on hanging out on a forum comprised mostly of heathens?

Perhaps JREF has the secret allure of a "Den of Iniquity"...


Because I love to engage in the mental hobby of dissecting worldviews as an academic endeavor to keep my cerebral cells nimble, versatile, and prolific in sizing up the beef with atheists.


And more and more I am coming to almost absolute certitude that what can be done to help atheists out of their frustrations with feeling discriminated against in the US is to attend to their complaints against God.


That is why as I have said already two or three or four times here, I like to invite atheists to work out with them some revisions of the concept of God so that they can get their perspectives of God more attuned to the scientific and philosophical insights of today among wise and good people, instead of banging their heads against children praying in public schools (by the way do they pray or use the name of God in the Senate and in the House, that is then one very rich ground for atheists -- for humor now, don't get mad -- to concentrate their misplaced rage.



Think about this: There are rabble rousers among theists as they are among atheists, beware you don't cater to them as to enable them to make a good living and earning a celebrity status among their followers, starting with yourselves.

Don't be a follower, don't read books put out by atheists as by theists, you have a good head, do your own thinking.



From the very start of this thread I said that I am angry, bemusedly angry that is, with atheists, because they can's seem to be susceptible to any constructive exchange of ideas.

Prove that you can be susceptible to any constructive exchange of ideas, read the entry on God in the Dictionary of Atheism published for free reading by the Atheists of Finland.

[ Here is the definition of God from the Dictionary... (http://www.randi.org/forumlive/showthread.php?p=4277300#post4277300) ]


When you as an atheist next write here, please indicate at the topmost part of your message, the line:

I have read the entry "God" in the Atheism Dictionary of Finland's atheists and I am ready to exchange ideas constructively.

And I promise to give more concentration to your post.


In the meantime, have a great good fun with this thread.




Yrreg

[RandFan]

Because I love to engage in the mental hobby of dissecting worldviews as an academic endeavor to keep my cerebral cells nimble, versatile, and prolific in sizing up the beef with atheists.Perhaps but one could not deduce that from your postings. Given your unwillingness to acknowledge arguments and engage in meaningful discussion and intelectual give and take then I would have to conclude that the driving force for you here is your ego. Nothing more.

It's unfortunate but it is what it is.

[RandFan]

Prove that you can be susceptible to any constructive exchange of ideas... Define irony?

[Hokulele]

I have read the entry "God" in the Atheism Dictionary of Finland's atheists and I am ready to exchange ideas constructively.

None of those have ever been shown to exist.

Now what?

[RoboTimbo]

<insanely furious parts snipped>

And I promise to give more concentration to your post.

Any would be more than you have been.

[Roadtoad]

Because I love to engage in the mental hobby of dissecting worldviews as an academic endeavor to keep my cerebral cells nimble, versatile, and prolific in sizing up the beef with atheists.

Well, first we have to assume you HAVE cerebral cells... :p

[arthwollipot]

And more and more I am coming to almost absolute certitude that what can be done to help atheists out of their frustrations with feeling discriminated against in the US is to attend to their complaints against God.Wait, what?

Do you think the best way to help gays is to talk about women?

[Roadtoad]

* Roadtoad goes to his room before his mouth gets him in trouble.

[articulett]

I think the his cerebellum may be the only place these "angry atheists" exist.

[Piscivore]

Because I love to engage in the mental hobby of dissecting worldviews as an academic endeavor to keep my cerebral cells nimble, versatile, and prolific in sizing up the beef with atheists.

Please keep your your cerebral cells off the subject of the size of my beef. I just don't swing that way.

[articulett]

Yrreg furthers the discrimination of atheists and imagines persecution of Christians and then says he's going to help us with our "frustrations with feeling discriminated against in the US is to attend to their complaints against God." Irony.

I don't think most theists have the cerebral capability of helping or even understanding atheists. They "need" us to be bad guys so they can feel like "saviors".

Most atheists have been theists, so they recognize the mind set. They've evolved. To me a theist, is just a superstitious person who hasn't learned not to be superstitious yet. Perhaps they'll never learn... seeping the mind in faith too long makes you spin without thinking and incapable of hearing others it seems.

[AkuManiMani]

So lemme get this strait...

The OP is mad at atheists because he believes they are angry at his god and refuse to admit it? yrreg, would you be happier if all atheists actually were angry at you god? That would be a rather strange state off affairs; how could they be angry at something they don't believe exists?

[yrreg]

I have read the entry "God" in the Atheism Dictionary of Finland's atheists and I am ready to exchange ideas constructively.

None of those have ever been shown to exist.

Now what?


None is too much, just pick one, and we will concentrate on just that one for the present.




Here is the definition of God from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the Atheists of Finland.




Atheist Association of Finland

Free Dictionaty of Atheism

God: A deity or a god, is a postulated supernatural entity, usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by humans. They assume a variety of forms, but are frequently depicted as having human or animal form. Sometimes it is considered blasphemous to imagine the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal. They are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions much like humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other "acts of God”, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of every aspect of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behaviour, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

http://www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm





I think generally the atheists of Finland give a substantially acceptable definition of God in their dictionary of atheism from their part as atheists.


For myself I think the line at the end put in bold by me says the whole concept of God quite adequately as to do Him justice, namely:

Creator of the earth or the universe.



Notice that the atheists of Finland take the care to mention at the very start of their definition, their position that God is an entity postulated by humans.

So there is really no danger of their committing themselves to the existence of God by their definition of God.






Thanks, Hokulele, for wanting to be constructive in the exchange of ideas here, and for having read the definition of God in the Dictionary of Atheism from the Atheists of Finland.

They have a lot of thoughts in their dictionary which is a testimony to their credit as critical thinkers and civil writers.




Best regards.

Yrreg

[Hokulele]

None is too much, just pick one, and we will concentrate on just that one for the present.


OK.

"...to be the ultimate judges of human worth..."

This one doesn't exist.

[Dunstan]

Wait, what?

Do you think the best way to help gays is to talk about women?

I think yrreg is keenly interested in discovering how to help gays.

[RandFan]

Thanks, Hokulele, for wanting to be constructive in the exchange of ideas here, and for having read the definition of God in the Dictionary of Atheism from the Atheists of Finland.Why is it that discussions happen at the JREF every day without the help or approval of yrreg?

If you would act like an adult yrreg and follow the golden rule (treat others as you would like to be treated) you would have no problem here.

I've had many great discussions with theists and atheists alike. There's no need for your snide accusations. If you have a problem here then just look in the mirror.

[yrreg]

Posted by yrreg
None is too much, just pick one, and we will concentrate on just that one for the present.





OK.

"...to be the ultimate judges of human worth..."

This one doesn't exist.


God can exist without that job.


You know why? because there was a time when mankind did not exist, and there has been God already, the maker of the moon for a starter and of course of the laws which enable the moon to be and operate.

In my own case, I am the judge of God, you should be also, let's try then to be fair judges of God.




Yrreg

[Hokulele]

God can exist without that job.


OK.

"They are usually immortal."

This one doesn't exist either.

[articulett]

I am the judge of Xenu; you should be also... let's try then to be fair judges of Xenu.

[devnull]

their complaints against God.


I think we've been here before - I recognise this landmark.......

[Silentknight]

Well, I suppose if you believe in God, you'd have to believe that he was the reason for the existence of atheists. So, then, you'd need to ask yourself why God would create something that was flawed. Surely God's creation is perfect? In that case, the existence of atheists proves that God doesn't exist.
Or perhaps God wants me to be an atheist. After all, I'm more likely to reject false models of God. I wouldn't ascribe to any questionable or dangerous beliefs based on him. I wouldn't commit any immoral acts in God's name. I certainly wouldn't worship the gruesome death of his son / prophet in order to shirk responsibility for my life. I'm also more inclined to accept the most reliable tool he's given us, namely science, for understanding and appreciating the wonder of his creation.

God + atheists = Friends forever :D

Secondly, before you get too well known, you might want to PM one of the administrators ("Darat" and/or "Lisa Simpson") and go for a name change. We have a fairly well known Tanstaafl already, and you're bound to create confusion. It's a unique name, after all.
There's a member named Silentnight (sans the "k" in my name) but I haven't seen him/her around during my time here.

[RandFan]

In my own case, I am the judge of God, you should be also, let's try then to be fair judges of God.Wouldn't that presupose a god?

I know, silly me, to assume that you would engage in constructive dialog or even answer questions.

[MattusMaximus]

Could it be you were in a cult?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black... :rolleyes:

[Doubt]

Why am I angry at this thread? ;)

Let's all sing along now:

I'm to angry for my shirt....



Hey, it is more productive than trying to get yerrg to acknowledge anything other than his own strawmen.

[bruto]

None is too much, just pick one, and we will concentrate on just that one for the present.


None is too much of what? "None" and "too much" are uneasy companions, to say the least. If there are no gods, then there's nothing left to divvy up!

"A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details" (John Ciardi)

[yrreg]

OK.

"They are usually immortal."

This one doesn't exist either.


That is the conclusion of early man who first discovered God and started to work out His attributes and deeds.

Immortal means not subject to death unlike humans.

Today we use the word eternal instead of the phrase 'usually immortal'; eternal means all times, always present.



Please, Hokulele, pick something more meaty.

Here, read the entry of God by the Atheists of Finland again, and try to see what are attributes and deeds of God which in our scientific and philosophical finesse today should be more relevant.



Atheist Association of Finland

Free Dictionary of Atheism

God: A deity or a god, is a postulated supernatural entity, usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by humans. They assume a variety of forms, but are frequently depicted as having human or animal form. Sometimes it is considered blasphemous to imagine the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal. They are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions much like humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other "acts of God”, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of every aspect of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behaviour, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

http://www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm





Tell you what, recall what philosophers today should conclude about God when they have removed everything that is just fringe benefit for God from mankind's 'anthropomorphic' imagination.

And also what scientists of today would conclude about God when they have also removed everything that is just fringe benefit for God from mankind's 'anthropomorphic' imagination.

Just for humor, next thing you might mention is that God is a Flying Spaghetti Monster, according to your own atheist dictionary, when you don't care to get serious with your reasoning faculty and integrative intelligence.




Yrreg

[Dunstan]

God + atheists = Friends forever :D

"To you, I'm an atheist. To God, I'm the Loyal Opposition." -- Woody Allen

[MattusMaximus]

You know folks, I've realized that attempting to have a constructive conversation with yrreg is like masturbating with a cheese-grater... it's somewhat amusing but mostly just painful.

[MattusMaximus]

Just for humor, next thing you might mention is that God is a Flying Spaghetti Monster, according to your own atheist dictionary, when you don't care to get serious with your reasoning faculty and integrative intelligence.

Actually, Google (http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/) is the closest thing to "God" that I know of...

Here are a few reasons why (http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/Scripture/Proof_Google_Is_God.html) :D

» PROOF #1
Google is the closest thing to an Omniscient (all-knowing) entity in existence, which can be scientifically verified.

» PROOF #2
Google is everywhere at once (Omnipresent).

» PROOF #3
Google answers prayers.

» PROOF #4
Google is potentially immortal.

» PROOF #5
Google is infinite.

» PROOF #6
Google remembers all.

» PROOF #7
Google can "do no evil" (Omnibenevolent).

» PROOF #8
(Google is more popular than other organized religion.)

» PROOF #9
Evidence of Google's existence is abundant.

All Hail the Mighty Google!!!

[m_huber]

Actually, Google (http://www.thechurchofgoogle.org/) is the closest thing to "God" that I know of...


In seriousness, thermodynamics has the closest relationship to God of anything we can observe. The laws of chemistry/physics remain constant throughout time, and they control everything that happens.

My geochemistry professor said earlier this semester:
"There is one person who controls everything, and his name is thermodynamics!"

[RandFan]

...recall what philosophers today should conclude about God when they have removed everything that is just fringe benefit for God from mankind's 'anthropomorphic' imagination.That god doesn't exist.

And also what scientists of today would conclude about God when they have also removed everything that is just fringe benefit for God from mankind's 'anthropomorphic' imagination.Odd, that god doesn't exist.

Interesting.

...when you don't care to get serious with your reasoning faculty and integrative intelligence.Hypocrite.

[Hokulele]

OK.

Today we use the word eternal instead of the phrase 'usually immortal'; eternal means all times, always present.


This one doesn't exist either.

[X]

YRREG:

Please answer my question.

Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

[Roadtoad]

Hell with it. I was going to post something cool, but it ain't worth it.

[articulett]

Hell with it. I was going to post something cool, but it ain't worth it.

That comment goes here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=130939&page=2

[zooterkin]

You know folks, I've realized that attempting to have a constructive conversation with yrreg is like masturbating with a cheese-grater... it's somewhat amusing but mostly just painful.

But are you doing it guiltlessly?

[zooterkin]

And more and more I am coming to almost absolute certitude that what can be done to help atheists out of their frustrations with feeling discriminated against in the US is to attend to their complaints against God.



Why do you care what happens to atheists in the US? You're not there, nor are a significant number of members of this forum.

Nor do I see how addressing these supposed complaints (once more, atheists don't have complaints against something which does not exist) would stop any discrimination by non-atheists.

[arthwollipot]

Why do you care what happens to atheists in the US? You're not there, nor are a significant number of members of this forum.Hold back, zooterkin. Events in the USA have an impact on the world at large. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a non-American to be concerned.

[Fiona]

Are we going through the Finnish definition of God so that yrreg can say that every part of the definition is a "fringe benefit"? Can we cut to the chase? You bolded a bit, Yrreg. So do you want to dismiss every other part and leave "Creator of the earth or the universe"?

If that is what you are aiming for could you stop wasting everyone's time please?

[Mojo]

None is too much, just pick one, and we will concentrate on just that one for the present.

Here is the definition of God from the Dictionary of Atheism published online by the Atheists of Finland.

Atheist Association of Finland

Free Dictionaty of Atheism

God: A deity or a god, is a postulated supernatural entity, usually, but not always, of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by humans. They assume a variety of forms, but are frequently depicted as having human or animal form. Sometimes it is considered blasphemous to imagine the deity as having any concrete form. They are usually immortal. They are commonly assumed to have personalities and to possess consciousness, intellects, desires, and emotions much like humans. Such natural phenomena as lightning, floods, storms, other "acts of God”, and miracles are attributed to them, and they may be thought to be the authorities or controllers of every aspect of human life (such as birth or the afterlife). Some deities are asserted to be the directors of time and fate itself, to be the givers of human law and morality, to be the ultimate judges of human worth and behaviour, and to be the designers and creators of the Earth or the universe.

http://www.dlc.fi/~etkirja/dictionary.htm

I think generally the atheists of Finland give a substantially acceptable definition of God in their dictionary of atheism from their part as atheists.

Please pick something more meaty.


OK, let's discuss gods that take the form of animals.

[PixyMisa]

Because I love to engage in the mental hobby of dissecting worldviews as an academic endeavor to keep my cerebral cells nimble, versatile, and prolific in sizing up the beef with atheists.
Funny, then, that you're so bad at this.

And more and more I am coming to almost absolute certitude that what can be done to help atheists out of their frustrations with feeling discriminated against in the US is to attend to their complaints against God.
This "God" of yours is fictional. That's the start and the end of it.

That is why as I have said already two or three or four times here, I like to invite atheists to work out with them some revisions of the concept of God so that they can get their perspectives of God more attuned to the scientific and philosophical insights of today among wise and good people, instead of banging their heads against children praying in public schools (by the way do they pray or use the name of God in the Senate and in the House, that is then one very rich ground for atheists -- for humor now, don't get mad -- to concentrate their misplaced rage.
If we want to believe in fictional beings, we are quite capable of creating our own, thank you.

Think about this: There are rabble rousers among theists as they are among atheists, beware you don't cater to them as to enable them to make a good living and earning a celebrity status among their followers, starting with yourselves.
What?

Don't be a follower, don't read books put out by atheists as by theists, you have a good head, do your own thinking.
We do do our own thinking.

From the very start of this thread I said that I am angry, bemusedly angry that is, with atheists, because they can's seem to be susceptible to any constructive exchange of ideas.
"Susceptible"? I think the thesaurus tripped you up again. Try using words you understand.

Anyway, we're quite open and receptive to any constructive exchange of ideas, so any time you want to try that, we'll be here.

Prove that you can be susceptible to any constructive exchange of ideas, read the entry on God in the Dictionary of Atheism published for free reading by the Atheists of Finland.
Why?

I've read it, sure. They do miss out the really important part - that no such thing exists - but otherwise it's nothing you couldn't get from any overly verbose dictionary.

When you as an atheist next write here, please indicate at the topmost part of your message, the line:
I have read the entry "God" in the Atheism Dictionary of Finland's atheists and I am ready to exchange ideas constructively.

Producing elaborate definitions of imaginary entities can be fun, but is largely pointless.

And I promise to give more concentration to your post.
More than less than zero, then?

[PixyMisa]

That is the conclusion of early man who first discovered God and started to work out His attributes and deeds.
Man did not discover gods, since there is still no evidence whatsoever that any such thing exists. Man invented gods, yours just like any other.

Immortal means not subject to death unlike humans.
Yes, we know what it means.

Today we use the word eternal instead of the phrase 'usually immortal'; eternal means all times, always present.
Yes, we know what it means.

There's no such being.

Please, Hokulele, pick something more meaty.
Why?

It's your turn now. Show that this immortal God of yours exists. We'll wait.

Here, read the entry of God by the Atheists of Finland again, and try to see what are attributes and deeds of God which in our scientific and philosophical finesse today should be more relevant.
None.

Tell you what, recall what philosophers today should conclude about God when they have removed everything that is just fringe benefit for God from mankind's 'anthropomorphic' imagination.
There is nothing left.

And also what scientists of today would conclude about God when they have also removed everything that is just fringe benefit for God from mankind's 'anthropomorphic' imagination.
There is still nothing left.

Just for humor, next thing you might mention is that God is a Flying Spaghetti Monster, according to your own atheist dictionary, when you don't care to get serious with your reasoning faculty and integrative intelligence.
What is the difference between your God and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[Belz...]

Because I love to engage in the mental hobby of dissecting worldviews as an academic endeavor to keep my cerebral cells nimble, versatile, and prolific in sizing up the beef with atheists.

Honestly, you have way too generous an opinion about your cerebral cells.

[MRC_Hans]

You know folks, I've realized that attempting to have a constructive conversation with yrreg is like masturbating with a cheese-grater... it's somewhat amusing but mostly just painful.Mmmm, I think I'll just take your word for that.

Hans:boggled:

[Marcus]

Hello Yrreg,

You do seem willing to engage in a limited amount of discussion. So how about answering this question, which has been asked many, many, times on this thread, and is directly relevant to the OP?

How can a person be mad at a fictional character?

I'm not being snide, I'm really interested. Perhaps you could provide an example of a character you consider fictional that you are mad at.

[Darth Rotor]

You sir, are a true mensch.
:blush: Thanks Foster. It's a side effect of eating breakfast at St Alfonso's, without margarine. :D

[JoeTheJuggler]

You know why? because there was a time when mankind did not exist, and there has been God already, the maker of the moon for a starter and of course of the laws which enable the moon to be and operate.

In my own case, I am the judge of God, you should be also, let's try then to be fair judges of God.


Why are you being so evasive about discussing your hatred of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, yrreg?

[Dunstan]

Why are you being so evasive about discussing your hatred of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, yrreg?

I think we should discuss what it is that yrreg finds objectionable about the FSM. Does he not like marinara sauce? That is not a necessary characteristic; modern science and philosophy has recognized that the FSM is simultaneously in marinara and alfredo. (It is an eternal mystery as to exactly how this happens.)

[Eskarina]

God can exist without that job.


You know why? because there was a time when mankind did not exist, and there has been God already, the maker of the moon for a starter and of course of the laws which enable the moon to be and operate.


Err, um, why did your god deem it necessary to create mankind, then? Was he getting bored? Unsatisfied withy his own creation up to that point? Experimenting with recreational humans? Is he inscrutable or transcendent? Or is he *gasp* perhaps imperfect?

In my own case, I am the judge of God, you should be also, let's try then to be fair judges of God.


What's the point in judging a monopoly god? :confused:

[Eskarina]

I think we should discuss what it is that yrreg finds objectionable about the FSM. Does he not like marinara sauce? That is not a necessary characteristic; modern science and philosophy has recognized that the FSM is simultaneously in marinara and alfredo. (It is an eternal mystery as to exactly how this happens.)


I think it's the very rare all'arrabiata (http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art21783.asp) manifestation of the FSM that yrreg is concerned about.

[Mister Agenda]

Wouldn't someone who dislikes, is angry at, or hates a god or gods be a misotheist?

Do they have a forum?

[articulett]

I think they could be a maltheist too.

[godless dave]

Yrreg, as I said earlier, my main "complaint against" God is the lack of evidence for his existence. Care to address that "complaint"?

[uruk]

The concept of God as creator of the universe has nothing to support it.

[Metullus]

The concept of God as creator of the universe has nothing to support it.That's how I meant it to be...

Oops. Damn!

[Dunstan]

The concept of God as creator of the universe has nothing to support it.

Except all those turtles, of course.

[uruk]

Except all those turtles, of course.

Well, at least turtles exist.

[Elizabeth I]

I think we should discuss what it is that yrreg finds objectionable about the FSM. Does he not like marinara sauce? That is not a necessary characteristic; modern science and philosophy has recognized that the FSM is simultaneously in marinara and alfredo. (It is an eternal mystery as to exactly how this happens.)

But what about lemon butter garlic sauce? I believe only in the lemon butter garlic communion.

[Fiona]

Die heretic scum!!!

[Roadtoad]

Speak for yourself.

For there is only the Great Taco In The Sky, and Elvis is his Prophet.

[RandFan]

that he is blessing fat white greedy people in the USA and Europe while he lets starve innocent black kids in Africa.Your remark is bigoted.

[Foster Zygote]

:blush: Thanks Foster. It's a side effect of eating breakfast at St Alfonso's, without margarine. :D

Yeah, I'm really sorry about the bingo cards too. There's just no excuse for that.

[Shalamar]

Here is a question for Yrreg..

If 'god' was discovered by humans way back when.. WHICH god was 'discovered' first? What was this gods name?

[godless dave]

yrreg, since you have time to start new threads you must have time to answer posts here. I told you my main "complaint" "against" God. Care to show me why my complaint isn't valid?

[Marcus]

Yrreg seems to have abandoned the thread, that's a bit rude. I, for one, treasure the woos we have here, it makes the discussion more interesting.

[six7s]

...treasure the woos we have here, it makes the discussion more interesting.Well, in the R&P section, yeah... It would be a bit dull:

I see no evidence for any wooMe neitherMe neitherMe neitherMe neither

[Darth Rotor]

Err, um, why did your god deem it necessary to create mankind, then? :
Isn't it obvious? He was looking for some laughs. He got them. Mission accomplished.

[godless dave]

yrreg, since you have time to start new threads you must have time to answer posts here. I told you my main "complaint" "against" God. Care to show me why my complaint isn't valid?

Yrreg?

[godless dave]

Yrreg?

[Mojo]

He says he's abandoned all his earlier threads... ...because they have become futile undertakings owing to the non-constructive reactions from atheists here.


Irony, thy name is yrreg.

[Roadtoad]

He says he's abandoned all his earlier threads...


Irony, thy name is yrreg.

Could it be he simply had too many ironies in the fire?

[Mojo]

Ouch.

[Dunstan]

Irony, thy name is yrreg.

I prefer to call it "ynori"