Senator Arlen Spector tells polish jokes. Apologizes later

[Ladewig]

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20081218_Specter_apologizes_for_Polish_jokes.html

Arlen Specter has learned a tough show-biz lesson: What plays well in Philly could bomb in New York.
Before hundreds of Pennsylvania Republicans in Manhattan last weekend, Specter told a couple of Polish jokes.

Not only did they bomb, but also someone tipped off a New York Post reporter, who wrote a brief account.

Now the chagrined senator is apologizing to Polish leaders around the country.

"It was insensitive and inappropriate," Specter said yesterday. "I have a pretty good reputation on ethnic issues and civil rights. This was a mistake."



My favorite part:
According to the New York Post, when Specter asked if anyone in the audience was Polish, about 10 people raised their hands. He then told the jokes.

I understand that he is part of a different generation; but c'mon, it's 2008 already. Who still tells Polish jokes?

[WildCat]

What a dupa!

[BirdStrike]

"He has been a longtime friend of the Polish community," Blichasz said. "That's why this is a tragedy, but he did apologize with the right words: It was inappropriate, and it will not happen again."

What? "A tragedy?" Over a couple jokes that bombed?

:dl:

[LibraryLady]

Over an intelligent senator with an honest reputation sullying that reputation for a cheap laugh that didn't even work.

However, I agree this does not rise to the level of tragedy.

[timhau]

I understand that he is part of a different generation; but c'mon, it's 2008 already. Who still tells Polish jokes?

Everybody but you, Kowalski.

[Donal]

He repeated the stories at a luncheon during the annual Pennsylvania Society Weekend in New York,

Anyone else find that odd?

[rwguinn]

Everybody but you, Kowalski.

In Texas, we repackage them as "Aggie" Jokes. Then nobody with >half a brain get offended...

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Incidentally, I'm Polish. And my nickname is "Aggie". :p

[Kaylee]

He repeated the stories at a luncheon during the annual Pennsylvania Society Weekend in New York,Anyone else find that odd?

Yes. I would have expected it to be held in Philly or another city in PA.

[LibraryLady]

I don't think the thread was meant as a Polish joke thread....

[Ladewig]

A guy goes into a store and tells the clerk, "I'd like some Polish sausage."

The clerk looks at him and says, "Are you Polish?"

The guy, clearly offended, says, "Well, yes I am. But let me ask you something." If I had asked for Italian sausage would you ask me if I was Italian? Or if I had asked for German bratwurst, would you ask me if I was German? Or if I asked for a kosher hot dog would you ask me if I was Jewish? Or if I had asked for a taco would you ask if I was Mexican? Would ya, huh? Would ya?"

The clerk says, "Well, no."

With deep self-righteous indignation, the guy says, "Well, all right then, why did you ask me if I'm Polish just because I ask for Polish sausage?"

The clerk replies, "Because this is Home Depot."

That's it?
That's your A game?
You decided to engage in an ethnic slur and that's all you could bring to this forum?

Sad.

As for the rest of the jokes, I'll just quote an aphorism that is often cited in this forum, "I really like free speech - it makes it very easy to spot the idiots."

[technoextreme]

I understand that he is part of a different generation; but c'mon, it's 2008 already. Who still tells Polish jokes?
The Polish *Rimshot* I don't know whats more moronic the fact that he continued on with his jokes after discovering that ten people were Polish or him not realizing that he probably was in the perfect area to offend the most amount of people with his jokes. The vast majority of Long Island used to consist of Polish farmers.
A guy goes into a store and tells the clerk, "I'd like some Polish sausage."

The clerk looks at him and says, "Are you Polish?"

The guy, clearly offended, says, "Well, yes I am. But let me ask you something." If I had asked for Italian sausage would you ask me if I was Italian? Or if I had asked for German bratwurst, would you ask me if I was German? Or if I asked for a kosher hot dog would you ask me if I was Jewish? Or if I had asked for a taco would you ask if I was Mexican? Would ya, huh? Would ya?"

The clerk says, "Well, no."

With deep self-righteous indignation, the guy says, "Well, all right then, why did you ask me if I'm Polish just because I ask for Polish sausage?"

The clerk replies, "Because this is Home Depot."
That joke isn't even funny. Only an idiot would think a Polish person would ask for Polish sausage. If you are going to go for the ethnic joke get the freaking name right or you end up looking like a moron. Im Polish any I dam well know the Polish word for sausage. Anyone, who is Polish and speaks English uses the Polish word for sausage. In fact it's the only word Polish word I know because it involves food. Yummy Yummy food.

[technoextreme]

Polish jokes are kind of dumb because they lack a certain specificity. You can take most dumb blond jokes or dumb American jokes and just make the moron a Pole.
I always thought the Polish jokes involved clumsiness. Though I have one good clean Polish joke that involved my Grandpa actually comparing me to a half of famer. He was ragging on me about going to college to get my degree. He said that the potatoes farmer's son down the street did very well playing baseball. Turns out that the potato farmer's son was hall of framer Carl Yastrzemski. :hb: In my Grandpa's defense his wife just died so he was in a grieving state. In hindsight it's the most hilarious thing.

[Tricky]

Posts that were jokes only have been split to the humor section.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=131039

[PhantomWolf]

Seriously, PC has gone to far. We better ban all jokes because they all make fun of someone so any joke can be offensive to that group. No more Irish, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, American, English, Scottish, French,..... jokes allow. Shoot all comedians that make fun of their wifes, ex's, Christians, men, women, politicians, sports coachs, dentists, and kidergarten teachers. Hang anyone that dares smile too much because they are probably thinking thoughts that are offensive to someone. Then we'll have Utopia!

[Piscivore]

I always thought the Polish jokes involved clumsiness. Though I have one good clean Polish joke that involved my Grandpa actually comparing me to a half of famer. He was ragging on me about going to college to get my degree. He said that the potatoes farmer's son down the street did very well playing baseball. Turns out that the potato farmer's son was hall of framer Carl Yastrzemski. :hb: In my Grandpa's defense his wife just died so he was in a grieving state. In hindsight it's the most hilarious thing.

Jokes about which ethnicity involves poor spelling? :)

[LibraryLady]

I'm not sure all potato farmers are of Polish descent.

[BirdStrike]

Seriously, PC has gone to far. We better ban all jokes because they all make fun of someone so any joke can be offensive to that group. No more Irish, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, American, English, Scottish, French,..... jokes allow. Shoot all comedians that make fun of their wifes, ex's, Christians, men, women, politicians, sports coachs, dentists, and kidergarten teachers. Hang anyone that dares smile too much because they are probably thinking thoughts that are offensive to someone. Then we'll have Utopia!


Hell I just posted a couple jokes here and look what happened:

LibraryLady "I don't think the thread was meant as a Polish joke thread.... "

Ladewig. "You decided to engage in an ethnic slur and that's all you could bring to this forum?"

technoextreme. "That joke isn't even funny. Only an idiot would think a Polish person would ask for Polish sausage."

Tricky Posts that were jokes only have been split to the humor section


Talk about PC gone wild. I was censored, my posts were removed, and three people sure told me. :D

[LibraryLady]

Your posts were not removed. They were moved to a more appropriate forum. Anyone who likes can still read them there.

Sorry if I insulted you.

[Cain]

Talk about PC gone wild. I was censored, my posts were removed, and three people sure told me. :D

What do you mean? There's no *********** censorship here.

[BirdStrike]

Your posts were not removed.

Yes they were removed from their original position and moved to another position in this forum.

They were moved to a more appropriate forum. Anyone who likes can still read them there.

Which is censorship. No jokes here. ;)

Sorry if I insulted you.

No insult taken. :) I simply was quite surprised how vitriolic Ladewig's reply was. Talk about over the top. Then technoextreme starts rambling about "Polish people don't say Polish sausage.." Anyone here with a funny bone in their body? Anyone?

What an interesting exercise in the freedom of speech, and how some people are utterly humorless. ;)

[LibraryLady]

Some people don't get irony.

[BirdStrike]

Some people don't get irony.

Indeed. :D

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I recently complained about Polish jokes on another thread, "Misconceptions Which Annoy You" and everyone told me I was nuts.

Here's the proof that Americans still know what they mean, that they are not extinct and it's still something you come across.

Just to show I'm a good sport, though, here is my Polish joke:

A Pole goes into an eyedoctor's and is shown the chart of letters.

It's W O J D Z I E W I C Z E W

Eyedoctor asks the man "Can you read that?"

Guy goes "Can I read that? I know him!"

[technoextreme]

Then technoextreme starts rambling about "Polish people don't say Polish sausage.." Anyone here with a funny bone in their body? Anyone?

It's not funny because I've never heard a Polish person say Polish sausage in my entire life. In fact why did you lump me into the PC crowd? All Im pointing out is that joke was not funny.
Which is censorship. No jokes here.
No. Jokes were derailing the thread and breaking the rules. It just got moved to the humor thread.

[Skeptic Guy]

Anyone else find that odd?

It seems that Pennsylvania is invading New York. They're being very sneaky about it.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Neither have I, actually. If I'm in a store that sells Polish sausages, it's a Polish-speaking buisness and I ask for "kielbasa".

[Cain]

It's not funny because I've never heard a Polish person say Polish sausage in my entire life.

Duh, that's because you live in Poland. ****in' Polacks, I swear.

[technoextreme]

Duh, that's because you live in Poland. ****in' Polacks, I swear.
Im pretty sure you just broke the rules.

[timhau]

It seems that Pennsylvania is invading New York. They're being very sneaky about it.

Not really. They've had a station there for ages.

[Cleon]

Sweet christ in a grilled cheese sandwich...

A politician from Pennsylvania--a state that has an official *********** polka--is making Polish jokes?!?! Is he intent on political suicide, trying to pull a Bullworth or something?

[bigred]

That's it?
That's your A game?
You decided to engage in an ethnic slur and that's all you could bring to this forum?

Sad.

As for the rest of the jokes, I'll just quote an aphorism that is often cited in this forum, "I really like free speech - it makes it very easy to spot the idiots."
No kidding.

Actually what I find sad is the hypersensitivity and willingness our society has to genuflect to the almighty PC Card at the drop of a hat. All hail!! :nazi salute:

Oh and I apologize to any "German Americans" put off by the above remark.

:rolleyes:

America: Land of the Offended. sniffle Tito get me a tissue

EDIT: I also apologize to the Jacksonian Americans for the above remark.

PS and oh btw: I was born and bred in PA, know more than a few Polacks and I can't think of one offhand who got offended by Polish jokes. They are notoriously thick-skinned. Sorta like the anti-blacks.

OOPS OMG there I go again.....

I mean "African Americans."


lol @ this country.

[BirdStrike]

No kidding.

Actually what I find sad is the hypersensitivity and willingness our society has to genuflect to the almighty PC Card at the drop of a hat. All hail!! :nazi salute:

Ya. Wasn't Ladewig's response totally disproportionate to a joke? The hostility was palpable. What a drama queen.


Just to show I'm a good sport, though, here is my Polish joke:

A Pole goes into an eyedoctor's and is shown the chart of letters.

It's W O J D Z I E W I C Z E W

Eyedoctor asks the man "Can you read that?"

Guy goes "Can I read that? I know him!"

So this Polish joke can stay for almost 24 hours. And my Polish jokes were removed and censored in 10 minutes. Ok... sounds like a totally level playing field to me. ;)

It's not funny because I've never heard a Polish person say Polish sausage in my entire life.

I'll clear all Polish jokes through you from now on.? :D


In fact why did you lump me into the PC crowd? All Im pointing out is that joke was not funny.

Even funnier is the outrage you feel over a term for a sausage. Now that's funny.

:dl:

No. Jokes were derailing the thread and breaking the rules. It just got moved to the humor thread.

Ya... I know... I was derailing the thread from BOREDOM! Cuz this thread is just burning up the message board! :D

[ImaginalDisc]

Your posts were not removed. They were moved to a more appropriate forum. Anyone who likes can still read them there.

Sorry if I insulted you.

You can't sanitize humor. The appropriate time and place for a joke is an inappropriate time and place.

Mind you, I don't even like Polish jokes, but it's the principle of the thing.

[tomwaits]

I thought the most offensive thing I ever saw about the Polish was the reaction to Bush's "Well, actually, you forgot Poland" comment. Bush didn't want to leave out any of the countries that were supporting the military actions, and people made fun of it so much as if Poland was some backwards nation and Bush was an idiot for even mentioning it. Yes, Poland is a country, and I'm sure their people want to know that their contributions aren't being taken for granted. But for the majority of Americans, it was just another Polish joke.

[Darth Rotor]

I thought the most offensive thing I ever saw about the Polish was the reaction to Bush's "Well, actually, you forgot Poland" comment. Bush didn't want to leave out any of the countries that were supporting the military actions, and people made fun of it so much as if Poland was some backwards nation and Bush was an idiot for even mentioning it. Yes, Poland is a country, and I'm sure their people want to know that their contributions aren't being taken for granted. But for the majority of Americans, it was just another Polish joke.
May I ask why blonde jokes are OK but Polish jokes are not?

Someone help me out here. Please. I'm turning blonde and want to know at what point it is OK for me to get deeply offended. :p

DR

[ImaginalDisc]

I thought the most offensive thing I ever saw about the Polish was the reaction to Bush's "Well, actually, you forgot Poland" comment. Bush didn't want to leave out any of the countries that were supporting the military actions, and people made fun of it so much as if Poland was some backwards nation and Bush was an idiot for even mentioning it. Yes, Poland is a country, and I'm sure their people want to know that their contributions aren't being taken for granted. But for the majority of Americans, it was just another Polish joke.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I made the "you forgot Poland" jokes not because Poland is an unimportant country, but because that was Bush's more salient rebuttal to anything Kerry said.

[bigred]

This is America. Any time is the right time :cool:

[Skeptic Guy]

May I ask why blonde jokes are OK but Polish jokes are not?

Someone help me out here. Please. I'm turning blonde and want to know at what point it is OK for me to get deeply offended. :p

DR

The minute you lose it all and start getting bald jokes.

[Ladewig]

I stand by what I said. Posting Polish jokes in a thread about the inappropriateness of telling Polish jokes is exceptioanlly uncouth.

For what its worth, I was not the one who complained to the moderators. I think their response is somewhat strange in that while the posts with the jokes were removed, posts quoting the jokes remain. While their action would not have been my first choice of all available responses, I do not think their moving the posts rises to the level of censorship

[LibraryLady]

I reported it. I was at work at the time, and I don't actually moderate while I'm at work, but I asked that someone else handle it.

I agree with Laedwig. While Polish jokes might well be amusing to some and they are certainly free to share them in the humor section, posting them in this thread was off topic.

[BirdStrike]

I stand by what I said. Posting Polish jokes in a thread about the inappropriateness of telling Polish jokes is exceptioanlly uncouth.

Wow. You must be a blast at parties. :D


p.s. In case you didn't notice nobody is posting in your thread... save the people commenting on my uncouth jokes. Ironic huh? ;)

[grunion]

I think what bothers me about Polish jokes is this.

I do think it's funny to point out ethnic and cultural differences, like in Eeny's eye chart joke. But I don't think it's funny to just make a joke about somebody being stupid and substitute the word "Polack" for "idiot." Or somebody being cheap and substitute the word "Jew" for "cheap." Or yadda yadda yadda.

Back in the 1970's Polish jokes were very popular, most likely because of the popularity of the American TV show All In The Family. It got so it was a stock part of every single stand-up routine. And the stereotype "dumb Polack" came out of the blue (at least to urbanites like me, who had lived among Polish people my whole life) and started sticking. There was this Polish kid in my class, pretty smart kid actually, that was now shamed because the atmosphere was tolerant of Polish jokes.

Oh, how "PC" of you, you're saying. Censor this and it's the slippery slope to Communism. Well, throwing "PC" around is just a lazy, cheap, shot. Accusing someone of being a Thought Policeman because they challenge you on airing venomous stereotypes and disguising them as "jokes." I'm not calling for censorship. But intellectuals, including skeptics, and especially including politicians, should have a bit higher standard for humor, I believe, than piling on cheap stereotypes. If Specter or Bird Strike want to tell Polish jokes, fine, but they shouldn't be surprised at being thought idiots by the rest of us.

[BirdStrike]

Oh, how "PC" of you, you're saying. Censor this and it's the slippery slope to Communism. Well, throwing "PC" around is just a lazy, cheap, shot. Accusing someone of being a Thought Policeman because they challenge you on airing venomous stereotypes and disguising them as "jokes." I'm not calling for censorship. But intellectuals, including skeptics, and especially including politicians, should have a bit higher standard for humor, I believe, than piling on cheap stereotypes. If Specter or Bird Strike want to tell Polish jokes, fine, but they shouldn't be surprised at being thought idiots by the rest of us.

My jokes were neither racist, discriminatory, or labeling an entire race/culture as being "stupid." So I am amazed at the over-the-top out-of-proportion reactions by you and Ladewig. Thou does protest too much.

What makes a joke funny is that it presents something unexpected and often contains a twist of logic or illogic. Like mine did.

For example, someone is reading a headline that says "12 Brazilian soldiers killed." And then asks, "How many is a Brazilian?" That is funny...

...except to you and Ladewig who will find umbrage and demand I be beheaded for casting aspersions on Brazillians. :D

[Ladewig]

Wow. You must be a blast at parties. :D

No, I am not; I tell a few jokes but they are often so obscure that few folks find them funny. As for being a blast, I am quite certain that telling Polish jokes would not make me the life of the party. Very few of the people I know would appreciate my telling them.


p.s. In case you didn't notice nobody is posting in your thread... save the people commenting on my uncouth jokes. Ironic huh? ;)

Yes, I overestimated interest in this topic when I started the thread.

[Ladewig]

My jokes were neither racist, discriminatory, or labeling an entire race/culture as being "stupid."

I am having a difficult time understand your position. How can jokes about how stupid Poles are not been seen as "labeling an entire culture as being 'stupid'"?

[Gregory]

My jokes were neither racist, discriminatory, or labeling an entire race/culture as being "stupid." So I am amazed at the over-the-top out-of-proportion reactions by you and Ladewig. Thou does protest too much.

Oh come on. The punchline is "hah hah, stupid Pole tried to buy sausage in a hardware store, because he's a stupid Pole." The cashier, seeing that he was an idiot, immediately deduced from that that he was a Pole. That's the joke.

Q. Why don't Polish women use vibrators?
A. It chips their teeth.


Do you understand why that joke wouldn't work if you substituted in, say, "Spanish" for Polish? Because the joke relies on the (racist) idea that Polish people are stupid. I've heard that same joke with blondes in place of Polish woman. If you can give a non-racist explanation of that joke, I'm all ears.

[BirdStrike]

I am having a difficult time understand your position. How can jokes about how stupid Poles are not been seen as "labeling an entire culture as being 'stupid'"?

Ever heard the term "sticks and stones would break my bones but names will never hurt me?" Take a few minutes and ask yourself whether you are blowing things out of proportion.

Oh come on. The punchline is "hah hah, stupid Pole tried to buy sausage in a hardware store, because he's a stupid Pole." The cashier, seeing that he was an idiot, immediately deduced from that that he was a Pole. That's the joke.Do you understand why that joke wouldn't work if you substituted in, say, "Spanish" for Polish? Because the joke relies on the (racist) idea that Polish people are stupid. I've heard that same joke with blondes in place of Polish woman. If you can give a non-racist explanation of that joke, I'm all ears.

A joke about a stupid Polish girl and a vibrator is neither nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, exercise, equal footing, human rights, or fundamental freedoms of Polish people. Once again you also need to put a couple jokes into perspective.

As with anything good, too much of it can be bad. And militant political correctness is a perfect example. The obsession of morally-superior elitists to homogenize our language and thought is highly uncomfortable for me.

[grunion]

The obsession of morally-superior elitists to homogenize our language and thought is highly uncomfortable for me.Oh, and your comfort is of course paramount and sacrosanct. So go ahead and post whatever racist tirade you wish, call it a joke to allow yourself to claim that you're not really racist, and nobody better challenge you because we wouldn't want you to be uncomfortable. Screw how it makes the victims feel.

And you accuse me of being "militant"? Sounds like you're the one advocating censorship.

[LibraryLady]

Let's lower the tone, folks, and remember to be civil to each other. Thank you.

[BirdStrike]

Let's lower the tone, folks, and remember to be civil to each other. Thank you.

Hey. I am being highly civil. Yet I have been labeled "a racist," "a moron," and "an idiot" by the morally-superior in this thread.

So go ahead and post whatever racist tirade you wish, call it a joke to allow yourself to claim that you're not really racist, and nobody better challenge you because we wouldn't want you to be uncomfortable.

Because the joke relies on the (racist) idea that Polish people are stupid. I've heard that same joke with blondes in place of Polish woman. If you can give a non-racist explanation of that joke, I'm all ears.

Only an idiot would think a Polish person would ask for Polish sausage. If you are going to go for the ethnic joke get the freaking name right or you end up looking like a moron.

That's it? That's your A game? You decided to engage in an ethnic slur and that's all you could bring to this forum? Sad. As for the rest of the jokes, I'll just quote an aphorism that is often cited in this forum, "I really like free speech - it makes it very easy to spot the idiots."



So who's really being totally uncivil here Library Lady? ;) That is the evil side of political correctness I am referring to.

[BirdStrike]

Oh, and your comfort is of course paramount and sacrosanct. So go ahead and post whatever racist tirade you wish, call it a joke to allow yourself to claim that you're not really racist, and nobody better challenge you because we wouldn't want you to be uncomfortable. Screw how it makes the victims feel.

Victims? OMFG that is hilarious!!!!

:dl:

[grunion]

I am being quite civil myself, and have not levelled any personal attacks against any posters here. I expect a Moderator can tell the difference between a personal attack and a critique. I could highlight all of BS's posts and take umbrage at all the uses of "elitist" and "morally superior" and "evil" but I recognize that this is his debate tactic (it's all he's got) and not a personal attack.

[BirdStrike]

I am being quite civil myself, and have not levelled any personal attacks against any posters here.

WHAT?!?!?!

Oh, and your comfort is of course paramount and sacrosanct. So go ahead and post whatever racist tirade you wish, call it a joke to allow yourself to claim that you're not really racist, .....

You called me a racist. Not once, but twice. Then you have the audacity to claim you didn't "level any personal attacks against any posters here."

What's even funnier is that I've been called a racist, idiot, and moron by people who act as vanguards of political correctness and racial sensitivity!

Man this thread is hilarious!

:dl:

[JoeyDonuts]

It seems that Pennsylvania is invading New York. They're being very sneaky about it.

I can see it now...legions of Steelheads marching on Yonkers armed only with Terrible Towels, being led proudly by Myron Cope. Yoi and Double Yoi!

wait...'ees died, innit? Bugger.

[grunion]

WHAT?!?!?!



You called me a racist. Not once, but twice. Then you have the audacity to claim you didn't "level any personal attacks against any posters here."Based on the quality of your posts here, I can see why you'd have a hard time distinguishing between attacking the person and challenging the position. I don't have the patience to teach you the difference.

What's even funnier is that I've been called a racist, idiot, and moron by people who claim to be vanguards of political correctness and racial sensitivity!

Man this thread is hilarious!
I assume you're talking about me - can you kindly point out where I made any such claim?

[Ladewig]

Ever heard the term "sticks and stones would break my bones but names will never hurt me?" Take a few minutes and ask yourself whether you are blowing things out of proportion.

Even if I were blowing things out of proportion and using unnecessarily strong language in my condemnations, even if there is no possible harm to Polish people from your posting a joke on an out-of-the-way message board, I still don't see how jokes about how stupid Poles are is not "labeling an entire culture as being 'stupid'"? As Gregory said, the joke falls apart when a different nationality is substituted.

I'd also like to know if using the word polock when telling these jokes is appropriate or not.

[BirdStrike]

Even if I were blowing things out of proportion and using unnecessarily strong language in my condemnations, even if there is no possible harm to Polish people from your posting a joke on an out-of-the-way message board, I still don't see how jokes about how stupid Poles are is not "labeling an entire culture as being 'stupid'"?

It's a joke. A depiction of a fictitious situation. A made-up story. If I was posting repeated anecdotes that were stridently anti-Polish then you have something to take umbrage with. If someone tells a joke, it's poking fun at, not indicting an entire race.

I'd also like to know if using the word polock when telling these jokes is appropriate or not.

Now that would be an ethnic slur. One that is recognized as an ethnic slur, and obviously that would be unacceptable.

Based on the quality of your posts here, I can see why you'd have a hard time distinguishing between attacking the person and challenging the position. I don't have the patience to teach you the difference.

I invite you to check out the difference between a joke and an anecdote.

I assume you're talking about me - can you kindly point out where I made any such claim?

What's funny is what is happening to me now is kinda what happened to Arlen Specter. A couple jokes have been blown way out of proportion.

"He has been a longtime friend of the Polish community," Blichasz said. "That's why this is a tragedy, but he did apologize with the right words: It was inappropriate, and it will not happen again."

A "tragedy." :D Over a couple jokes Mr. Blichasz? Seriously? That is what I mean about political correctness gone wild. Instead of enlightenment, we're headed down the path of thought-crimes and newspeak. ;)

[Gregory]

A joke about a stupid Polish girl and a vibrator is

Notice that the joke never used the term "stupid Polish girl?" It just used the term "Polish girl." It didn't have to say stupid, because your joke subsumed "stupid" into "Polish."

Incidentally Birdstrike, are you willing to extend your arguments to other ethnicities? "What do you get when you cross an Eskimo with a black person? A snowblower that doesn't work." Is that type of joke also perfectly fine, or is there something special about Polish people that makes all this acceptable?

[BirdStrike]

Notice that the joke never used the term "stupid Polish girl?" It just used the term "Polish girl." It didn't have to say stupid, because your (racist) joke subsumed "stupid" into "Polish."

Transgressors must be punished! Ideological correctness must be imposed! :D

Political correctness is fine... to a point, but like anything else, taken too far it becomes ridiculous. Like repeatedly labeling me a racist. ;)

[Gregory]

I haven't called you a racist, I said your joke was racist. And you didn't answer my question.

[BirdStrike]

I haven't called you a racist, I said your joke was racist. And you didn't answer my question.

Your claim that my jokes are racist subsumed I am racist. :D

[hgc]

A thread about Polish jokes, and Polish jokes are removed to another forum.

Moderation gone berserk.

[BirdStrike]

A thread about Polish jokes, and Polish jokes are removed to another forum.

Moderation gone berserk.

Hey hgc, I am afraid I have to report you to the moderators. You combined the words Polish and joke together. References to Polish jokes are the shadow of Polish jokes. And Polish jokes rely on the (racist) idea that all Polish people are stupid. So you might be a racist.

Sorry about that. Enjoy your ban! :D

[hgc]

Hey hgc, I am afraid I have to report you to the moderators. You combined the words Polish and joke together. References to Polish jokes are the shadow of Polish jokes. And Polish jokes rely on the (racist) idea that all Polish people are stupid. So you might be a racist.

Sorry about that. Enjoy your ban! :D


Thanks for nothing! When I get re-instated, I'm going to report you for using that offensive Pollack smiley in a thread that is only tangentially about Polish jokes.

[BirdStrike]

Thanks for nothing! When I get re-instated, I'm going to report you for using that offensive Pollack smiley in a thread that is only tangentially about Polish jokes.

CROWD: [yelling]
OFFICIAL: hgc, son of Deuteronomy of Gath.
hgc: Do I say 'yes'?
STONE HELPER #1: Yes.
hgc: Yes.
OFFICIAL: You have been found guilty by the elders of the town of uttering the word Pollack, and so, as a blasphemer,...

CROWD: Ooooh!
OFFICIAL: ...you are to be stoned to death.
CROWD: Ahh!
hgc: Look. I-- "All I said was when I get re-instated, I'm going to report you for using that offensive Pollack smiley..."

CROWD: Oooooh!
OFFICIAL: Blasphemy! He's said it again!
CROWD: Yes! Yes, he did! He did!...
OFFICIAL: Did you hear him?!
CROWD: Yes! Yes, we did! We did!...

;)

[Thunder]

well, Mr. Specter should not get all pissed off if someone says a Jewish joke in his presence.

if u cant take it...dont dish it.

[hgc]

CROWD: [yelling]
OFFICIAL: hgc, son of Deuteronomy of Gath.
hgc: Do I say 'yes'?
STONE HELPER #1: Yes.
hgc: Yes.
OFFICIAL: You have been found guilty by the elders of the town of uttering the word Pollack, and so, as a blasphemer,...

CROWD: Ooooh!
OFFICIAL: ...you are to be stoned to death.
CROWD: Ahh!
hgc: Look. I-- "All I said was when I get re-instated, I'm going to report you for using that offensive Pollack smiley..."

CROWD: Oooooh!
OFFICIAL: Blasphemy! He's said it again!
CROWD: Yes! Yes, he did! He did!...
OFFICIAL: Did you hear him?!
CROWD: Yes! Yes, we did! We did!...

;)


Ahem... Let me explain. You've heard of that died-in-car-wreck artist dude, Jackson Pollack, right? If you were able to disambiguate his splatterings into a coherent sensibility, you would emerge with the stupid, grinning smiley. Which is of course an offense to the smile of the Mona Lisa.

[bigred]

While Polish jokes might well be amusing to some and they are certainly free to share them in the humor section, posting them in this thread was off topic.
If posting something off topic is grounds for removal y'all have a LOT of work to do. ;)


I do think it's funny to point out ethnic and cultural differences, like in Eeny's eye chart joke. But I don't think it's funny to just make a joke about somebody being stupid and substitute the word "Polack" for "idiot." Or somebody being cheap and substitute the word "Jew" for "cheap." Or yadda yadda yadda.
:rolleyes: Please make up your mind.


Screw how it makes the victims feel.

The "victims?" Of a polish joke? LOL

BS you're right; this thread is hilarious (and yet tragically telling).

[Skeptic Guy]

I can see it now...legions of Steelheads marching on Yonkers armed only with Terrible Towels, being led proudly by Myron Cope. Yoi and Double Yoi!

wait...'ees died, innit? Bugger.

Just don't go to the Bronx, they have baseball bats.

[BirdStrike]

BS you're right; this thread is hilarious (and yet tragically telling).

The irony of this thread is palpable. Isn't it? :D

As I said, instead of enlightenment, we're headed down the path of thought-crimes and newspeak by these cultural Marxists. :D

[Tricky]

A thread about Polish jokes, and Polish jokes are removed to another forum.

Moderation gone berserk.
No, hcg, the thread is about the actions of Senator Arlen Spector, or at least, it should have been. The fact that the title mentions Polish jokes should not be taken as an invitation to make this a thread full of jokes.

And, contrary to what some have said, nothing has been censored. No posts have been deleted, only moved to the appropriate forum with a link provided.

However, since this thread has descended into more bickering than discussion of the OP, I'm guessing that the whole thread, or a great big chunk of it, will wind up in AAH unless there is a rapid change in direction.

[BirdStrike]

No, hcg, the thread is about the actions of Senator Arlen Spector, or at least, it should have been. The fact that the title mentions Polish jokes should not be taken as an invitation to make this a thread full of jokes.

I don't believe that two Polish jokes rise to the level of insults, and calls of racism, nor do I agree with characterizing two Polish jokes as "making this a thread full of jokes."

It was 2 jokes, people could have scrolled over them in a nanosecond and moved on. Seriously. yet I was called a moron, idiot, racist and the jokes were removed from an inconsequential thread about Senator Arlen Spector and Polish jokes.

[Skeptic Guy]

No, but, as Tricky points out, they are off topic and as such would be better in a different thread.

[Jeff Corey]

Just like to point out that the use of the word Pollack should not be considered offensive, since it is, in fact, Polish for "Polish.

translation @ a click Download Add Dictionary
Polish English Dictionary
polacy
Polish-English 0.10 Download this dictionary

polak
Polish

[grunion]

I don't believe that two Polish jokes rise to the level of insults, and calls of racism, nor do I agree with characterizing two Polish jokes as "making this a thread full of jokes."

It was 2 jokes, people could have scrolled over them in a nanosecond and moved on. Seriously. yet I was called a moron, idiot, racist and the jokes were removed from an inconsequential thread about Senator Arlen Spector and Polish jokes.Sigh. Nobody's called you that here, just the views you claim to ascribe to. But if the shoe fits...

Well, I thought discussion of why some construe Polish jokes as racist or less-than-appropriate for a politician to be regaling his multi-cultural audience with as entirely appropriate for the thread, but since the only response by Bird Strike has been repeatedly posting his "slippery slope" fallacies and laughing dog smilies perhaps you are right, Tricky. It's so much easier to shout "PC" than to actually engage in discourse, alas that's all we're getting out of this topic.

[Tricky]

I don't believe that two Polish jokes rise to the level of insults, and calls of racism, nor do I agree with characterizing two Polish jokes as "making this a thread full of jokes."

It was 2 jokes, people could have scrolled over them in a nanosecond and moved on.
There were a number of jokes that in no way addressed the topic. They were jokes only. They are still available with a link in this thread that points to them. Some jokes remain here as they also address the somewhat-derailed thread of discussion.

I do not understand why moving posts to a more appropriate location, which is in no way censoring them, is regarded with such hostility.

Seriously. yet I was called a moron, idiot, racist and the jokes were removed from an inconsequential thread about Senator Arlen Spector and Polish jokes.

All the posts that have been reported have been looked at by moderators. If there has been no action, it is either because it is still under discussion, or because it was decided that no rule was violated.

If you wish to discuss this further, please take your question to Forum Management. (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=19)

[Ladewig]

It's a joke. A depiction of a fictitious situation. A made-up story. If I was posting repeated anecdotes that were stridently anti-Polish then you have something to take umbrage with. If someone tells a joke, it's poking fun at, not indicting an entire race.


I am still having a hard time understanding the exact nature of your claim. To me, you seem to be saying that if a person says "Polish people are so stupid that [insert Polish joke]" then that person is not making an ethnic slur, but if the same person says "Polish people are stupid" then that person is making an ethnic slur. Does the intent to be humorous automatically remove the statement from the classification of ethnic slurs?


I'd also like to know if using the word polock when telling these jokes is appropriate or not.
Now that would be an ethnic slur. One that is recognized as an ethnic slur, and obviously that would be unacceptable.


So how recognized does an ethnic slur have to be until it is unacceptable? If half the population believes ethnic jokes are ethnic slurs is it fair to say that those jokes are "recognized as an ethnic slur, and obviously that would be unacceptable"?

[bigred]

So 2 Polish Americans walk into a bar

;) OK so this was stupid of the Senator, esp in this PC-gone-amok day and age but I can just tell you the Polish I have known were extremely UN-sensitive about such things or such jokes. Maybe they were extremely diff then the norm, but I kind of doubt it.

[Ladewig]

So 2 Polish Americans walk into a bar

;) OK so this was stupid of the Senator, esp in this PC-gone-amok day and age but I can just tell you the Polish I have known were extremely UN-sensitive about such things or such jokes. Maybe they were extremely diff then the norm, but I kind of doubt it.

OK, I believe you. I know a couple of Jewish guys who are extremely sensitive about Jewish jokes. So now the question become how many members of an ethnic group, a nationality, or a race have to be offended before it becomes impolite to tell such jokes.

[Skeptical Greg]

Since when are jokes supposed to be polite?
All jokes are potentially insulting to someone. Most laughter is directed at someone's misfortune or shortcoming..

What was the purpose of pointing out the idiotic blunder in the first place ?

How polite is that ?

P.S.

Where can I find the jokes he told ? Were they funny ?

[BirdStrike]

Yet I was called a moron, idiot, racist and the jokes were removed from an inconsequential thread about Senator Arlen Spector and Polish jokes.

Sigh. Nobody's called you that here, just the views you claim to ascribe to. But if the shoe fits...

"No one called me that here". Wow. Thats funny. :D

Allow me grunion.

If Specter or Bird Strike want to tell Polish jokes, fine, but they shouldn't be surprised at being thought idiots by the rest of us.

Wasn't that your post grunion? Calling me an idiot. Which you just claimed never happened. :D

As for the rest of the jokes, I'll just quote an aphorism that is often cited in this forum, "I really like free speech - it makes it very easy to spot the idiots."

That joke isn't even funny. Only an idiot would think a Polish person would ask for Polish sausage. If you are going to go for the ethnic joke get the freaking name right or you end up looking like a moron.

There's two more. Plus a "moron." :p

All over a couple Polish jokes.

If you can give a non-racist explanation of that joke, I'm all ears.

:boxedin: Oh. No. Now I may be a racist.

Oh, and your comfort is of course paramount and sacrosanct. So go ahead and post whatever racist tirade you wish, call it a joke to allow yourself to claim that you're not really racist, and nobody better challenge you because we wouldn't want you to be uncomfortable. Screw how it makes the victims feel.

:jaw-dropp grunion, you called me a racist AND previously an idiot. Which you claimed at the top of this post "never happened."

I'll tell ya what guys. Nobody cares about Arlen Specter and that he told a couple ill-timed Polish jokes. They really don't. Your thread is a good example about the attempt to homogenize language and thought though.

Have a nice day.

[grunion]

My claim stands, and your citations are evidence of it, regardless of your apparent lack of reading comprehension. Bird Strike, you are quick to claim the role of victim here but your only response to the challenges so far have been either "wow that's hilarious (accompanied by a laughing dog)" or a simple slippery slope argument that moving your precious joke to a different thread is tantamount to the downfall of Enlightened Liberalism. You complain that the thread is a waste because your jokes were moved. The thread would be far more productive, I feel, if you actually responded to the claims.

Suppose one of our resident anti-semites, in the midst of one of his revisionist screeds, decided to make a comment about Jews being "good lampshade material" or some such horrific comment which he then claimed was a joke. Must we excuse it because he claimed to do it in the name of humor? Or would we be justified in the "joke" being further evidence of his anti-semitism? If you challenged him, and he accused you of being a "PC thought police censor Communist" what would you think?

If you never met someone before but the first things you ever heard him say were Sinophobic imitations like "ching chong Chinaman, me likee teach my chicken to write Chinee" while pinching his eyes into a forced squint, would you be justified in thinking him racist? If there were a couple of people of Asian descent nearby, uncomfortably laughing, would that then make it OK?

Or what about a known white comic repeatedly using the N-word in a banterish sort of way, or referring to a women's basketball team as a bunch of "nappy-headed ho's," what then? And when the victims of the joke took offense (and yes, there are victims) you think "it's just a joke, and blacks are too sensitive and need to get off their high horse?"

If you think all that is funny, then fine for you. I will not challenge your taste in humor. Nor will I call for their censorship (though I will agree with those who might want to limit exposure to this brand of "humor" to those who intentionally seek it out.) But if you are going to focus all your energy against those who condemn this kind of speech, and rail against them as a bunch of whiny Political Correctness feminazis, then don't be shocked to find yourself lumped in with the worst of the "jokesters".

Apparently you think jokes that conflate "Polish" and "stupid" are funny (well some of them, at least.) Arlen Specter apparently did also. Some people find those jokes offensive. Instead of thinking about why they might find them so (the topic of this thread, as I understand it), you accuse them of hypersensitivity and undermining your freedom of speech. I'm glad that Specter showed the good sense (or at least political savvy) to apologize.

I can predict your response, should their be any. One of:
a. That's hilarious, OMFUG! :dl:
or b. That's it! The Political Correctness Squad has permanently outlawed humor in this forum, Seig Heil!or c.Moderator! grunion just called me racist, and a nazi, and an idiot again!

[BirdStrike]

My claim stands, and your citations are evidence of it, regardless of your apparent lack of reading comprehension. Bird Strike, you are quick to claim the role of victim here... blah..blah...blah..

So I am "quick to claim the role of victim here," huh? after being called a racist, idiot, and moron over 2 jokes. Hilarious. :D

But please, allow me to hoist you on your own petard.... yet again.

Oh, and your comfort is of course paramount and sacrosanct. So go ahead and post whatever racist tirade you wish, call it a joke to allow yourself to claim that you're not really racist, and nobody better challenge you because we wouldn't want you to be uncomfortable. Screw how it makes the victims feel.

Gosh, wasn't that you grunion? The first to "claim the role of victim?"

:dl:

[bigred]

OK, I believe you. I know a couple of Jewish guys who are extremely sensitive about Jewish jokes. So now the question become how many members of an ethnic group, a nationality, or a race have to be offended before it becomes impolite to tell such jokes.

Good question. Seriously. I have known more than a couple Polacks though FYI. :cool:

PS I will pass on the continuing cat fight.

[hgc]

No, hcg, the thread is about the actions of Senator Arlen Spector, or at least, it should have been. The fact that the title mentions Polish jokes should not be taken as an invitation to make this a thread full of jokes.

And, contrary to what some have said, nothing has been censored. No posts have been deleted, only moved to the appropriate forum with a link provided.

However, since this thread has descended into more bickering than discussion of the OP, I'm guessing that the whole thread, or a great big chunk of it, will wind up in AAH unless there is a rapid change in direction.


This is what I hate about subject matter moderation. A thread is about what the posters make it about. I don't see why it has to be set in stone by what the moderators perceive to be the OP's intent.

If a post is removed to another location, that is censorship. If I posted a polish joke in a thread that started out being about someone making polish jokes, that's because I as a poster thought it was relevant - maybe at the core, or maybe tangentially. I am certain that the quality of discourse in this community is much more damaged by lordly moderators deciding what we are and aren't talking about than by the meanderings of various sprigs of conversation within a thread.

Please, for the love of Ford, stop this madness. Go back to just policing for dirty words and idle threats, and leave the free-wheeling conversation alone.

[grunion]

2 out of 3, not too bad...

KIELBASA SAUSAGE WITH CABBAGE AND ONIONS

1 pack of kielbasa sausage
1 head of green cabbage
1 white onion
vegetable oil
salt
pepper
Pour vegetable oil into a large frying pan.Add sausage to the frying pan. Heat to medium high.
Cook until brown. Do not drain or the cabbage and onions will stick to the pan.
Cut the cabbage into slices 2 inches thick and stir into sausage.
Cut onion in half, then across; add it to the pan.
Cook until cabbage and onions are soft.
Salt and pepper to taste.

[Skeptical Greg]

Do you use vegetable oil when you fry bacon ?


__________________________________________________ __

....

That joke isn't even funny. Only an idiot would think a Polish person would ask for Polish sausage. Only an idiot would just ask for ' sausage ', if they wanted something more specific than the thousands of types of sausage that are out there...
Boudin can be a big surprise if you were expecting kielbasa ...

What do you ask for if you really want sausage that is labeled " Polish Sausage " ?


Do we really need I point out the irony, of someone pointing out the incongruities in a joke ?


You must really have a problem with jokes that begin with lines like " A horse walks into a bar..... "

[BirdStrike]

This is what I hate about subject matter moderation. A thread is about what the posters make it about. I don't see why it has to be set in stone by what the moderators perceive to be the OP's intent.

I agree. Threads should be an organic thing, free to grow or die.

Go back to just policing for dirty words and idle threats, and leave the free-wheeling conversation alone.

Like posting non sequitur recipies in a thread about Arlen Specter and polish jokes? :p

[Skeptical Greg]

I read through that whole recipe, expecting a punch line at the end..
What a let-down ...

[Skeptic Guy]

OK, I believe you. I know a couple of Jewish guys who are extremely sensitive about Jewish jokes. So now the question become how many members of an ethnic group, a nationality, or a race have to be offended before it becomes impolite to tell such jokes.


Three. Two to screw it in and one to tell the joke.

Wait, that didn't work. Never mind.

Sorry, Tricky. I couldn't help it. I have a problem and I'm dealing with it one step at a time.

[hgc]

Like posting non sequitur recipies in a thread about Arlen Specter and polish jokes? :p


I read through that whole recipe, expecting a punch line at the end..
What a let-down ...


I don't want you to go away disappointed. Here's an on-topic recipe (hint - joke within):

Barszcz baily (Polish white borscht with sausage)

MAKES 6 SERVINGS

3/4 pound kielbasa biala surowa (fresh Polish sausage, available at Polish delis and many supermarkets)
3 quarts cold water
1 small onion, finely chopped and sauteed
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 teaspoon dried marjoram
Ground black pepper to taste
3 tablespoons zur (Polish sour soup concentrate, such as Cracovia brand, available at Polish markets), or to taste

OPTIONAL:
Hard-cooked eggs, sliced,
Bottled white horseradish to taste
Polish rye bread

Put the sausage in a pot of cold water, bring to a boil, reduce the heat and simmer slowly for half an hour. Remove the sausage and set aside.
Add the onion, garlic, marjoram and pepper to the pot and simmer another
10 minutes. Stir in the zur.

To serve, slice the sausage and add to bowls of soup with sliced hard-cooked eggs and horseradish to taste, if desired. Place a bowl of soup on each guest's chair, and invite them to sit down. Delicious!

[WildCat]

Please, for the love of Ford, stop this madness. Go back to just policing for dirty words and idle threats, and leave the free-wheeling conversation alone.
Thank you.

The moderation here is getting completely out of hand.

[Tricky]

This is what I hate about subject matter moderation. A thread is about what the posters make it about. I don't see why it has to be set in stone by what the moderators perceive to be the OP's intent.

If a post is removed to another location, that is censorship. If I posted a polish joke in a thread that started out being about someone making polish jokes, that's because I as a poster thought it was relevant - maybe at the core, or maybe tangentially. I am certain that the quality of discourse in this community is much more damaged by lordly moderators deciding what we are and aren't talking about than by the meanderings of various sprigs of conversation within a thread.

Please, for the love of Ford, stop this madness. Go back to just policing for dirty words and idle threats, and leave the free-wheeling conversation alone.

Please review rule 11. If you have questions concerning this rule, please raise them in the Forum Management (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=19) subforum.

[BirdStrike]

Please review rule 11. If you have questions concerning this rule, please raise them in the Forum Management (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=19) subforum.

Lemme get this straight. Just want to paraphrase what is going on here.

1) Two Polish jokes by me in a thread about polish jokes are NOT ALLOWED.

2) Polish jokes by EeneyMinnieMoe (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4281151#post4281151) - (see: link) - in a thread about polish jokes are ARE ALLOWED.

3) Polish recipes, which are totally non sequitur, by grunion ARE ALSO ALLOWED.

Talk about an unlevel playing field..... ya, I know if I have questions concerning this rule, please raise them in the Forum Management (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=-1&f=19) subforum.

[Skeptical Greg]

Rule 11

Posts must be on topic to the thread subject. On this Forum thread drift is expected but must follow from the discussion.

Has anyone ever seen a moderator back down after impulsively caving to a cry baby ?

Back on topic:

If it is available, does anyone know where the text of the jokes Spector told is?

[hgc]

Rule 11

Posts must be on topic to the thread subject. On this Forum thread drift is expected but must follow from the discussion.

Has anyone ever seen a moderator back down after impulsively caving to a cry baby ?

Back on topic:

If it is available, does anyone know where the text of the jokes Spector told is?


[on topic]
I'd like to see that too. But the humor is often in the telling. I really would like to hear or see the actual event. Somehow, I don't think of Sen Arlen as a very effective joke delivery system.
[/on topic]

And if the cry baby is a fellow mod, the cause is more than lost.

[BirdStrike]

Back on topic:

If it is available, does anyone know where the text of the jokes Spector told is?[on topic]
I'd like to see that too. But the humor is often in the telling. I really would like to hear or see the actual event. Somehow, I don't think of Sen Arlen as a very effective joke delivery system.
[/on topic]

And if the cry baby is a fellow mod, the cause is more than lost.

[on topic] ;):D

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132008/gossip/pagesix/specters_strange_humor_143925.htm....including the old one about the man who interrupted him once, saying, "Hey, careful. I'm Polish!" Specter said he responded, "That's OK - I'll tell it more slowly." Specter also told two other tasteless jokes in the same Polish vein.

After searching the internet for 15 minutes that is all that I can find. 99% of the links all re-quote the original story... which was written by Richard Johnson of Page Six in the New York Post.

[Skeptical Greg]

Yeah, I found that too. There supposedly were guests who were ' horrified ' ...

I admit it was pretty lame, but all the outrage is even more lame... Particularly dragging it into a forum where disdain for political correctness just might run a close second to skepticism.. Might as well hang a sign on your back that says " Kick Me " ...

[BirdStrike]

I admit it was pretty lame, but all the outrage is even more lame...

I agree. It was lame joke. Yawn, so what. Is life that short for some people?

What is more interesting is the politically correct intelligentsia's over-the-top response. Like the one I experienced in this very thread. :D

[Skeptical Greg]

Oh come on. The punchline is "hah hah, stupid Pole tried to buy sausage in a hardware store, because he's a stupid Pole." The cashier, seeing that he was an idiot, immediately deduced from that that he was a Pole. That's the joke.
I was just reading back through the thread, and hadn't noticed Gregory's outrage before..

I had subsequently found this little gem that Gregory posted over in humor:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4292634&postcount=322

Ahh ! I see it has been modded..

Gregory has a problem with Polish jokes, but thinks rape is funny ...

( No, I wasn't the one who reported it - but with hindsight, I'm ashamed that I didn't. )

[BirdStrike]

I was just reading back through the thread, and hadn't noticed Gregory's outrage before..

I had subsequently found this little gem that Gregory posted over in humor:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4292634&postcount=322

Ahh ! I see it has been modded..

Gregory has a problem with Polish jokes, but thinks rape is funny ...


We both know my 2 jokes were removed. We also both know that EeneyMinnieMoe's polish joke was not removed. We also know that a non sequitur recipie by grunion was not removed. We also know - thanks to you - that Gregory posted a joke that was considered:

pornographic, obscene, or contains excessive reference to violence and/or explicit sexual acts.


...so the MODS created an un-level playing field just for little old me. In a way I kinda feel special! :D

[Ladewig]

It's a joke. A depiction of a fictitious situation. A made-up story. If I was posting repeated anecdotes that were stridently anti-Polish then you have something to take umbrage with. If someone tells a joke, it's poking fun at, not indicting an entire race.

I am still having a hard time understanding the exact nature of your claim. To me, you seem to be saying that if a person says "Polish people are so stupid that [insert Polish joke]" then that person is not making an ethnic slur, but if the same person says "Polish people are stupid" then that person is making an ethnic slur. Does the intent to be humorous automatically remove the statement from the classification of ethnic slurs?

[hgc]

I am still having a hard time understanding the exact nature of your claim. To me, you seem to be saying that if a person says "Polish people are so stupid that [insert Polish joke]" then that person is not making an ethnic slur, but if the same person says "Polish people are stupid" then that person is making an ethnic slur. Does the intent to be humorous automatically remove the statement from the classification of ethnic slurs?


The distinction is somewhere between first person expository on one side and third person narrative or performance of a characterization on the other. Humor is not a necessary component.

[Ladewig]

The distinction is somewhere between first person expository on one side and third person narrative or performance of a characterization on the other. Humor is not a necessary component.


I am still having a hard time seeing where the distinction lies. If someone says watch this performance of a characterization of a black man and then follows it with a Stepin Fetchit imitation including a monologue about fried chicken, watermelon, etc. then surely that is a racist slur.

[hgc]

I am still having a hard time seeing where the distinction lies. If someone says watch this performance of a characterization of a black man and then follows it with a Stepin Fetchit imitation including a monologue about fried chicken, watermelon, etc. then surely that is a racist slur.


It might not be. I'd have to know more about the situation.

[BirdStrike]

I am still having a hard time understanding the exact nature of your claim. To me, you seem to be saying that if a person says "Polish people are so stupid that [insert Polish joke]" then that person is not making an ethnic slur, but if the same person says "Polish people are stupid" then that person is making an ethnic slur. Does the intent to be humorous automatically remove the statement from the classification of ethnic slurs?The distinction is somewhere between first person expository on one side and third person narrative or performance of a characterization on the other. Humor is not a necessary component.

There is a big difference between a joke and an anecdote. People need to recognize he difference and use some perspective. IMHO political correctness amounts to getting a sexual education in the Victorian era. :D

[Ladewig]

I am going to withdraw my derogatory accusation and retract the word idiot.

That being said, I still do not understand the distinction you are making BirdStrike.


There is a big difference between a joke and an anecdote. People need to recognize he difference and use some perspective.

Does the humorous intent mean it is not an ethnic slur? What about Grunion's questions in post #83:

Suppose one of our resident anti-semites, in the midst of one of his revisionist screeds, decided to make a comment about Jews being "good lampshade material" or some such horrific comment which he then claimed was a joke. Must we excuse it because he claimed to do it in the name of humor? Or would we be justified in the "joke" being further evidence of his anti-semitism? If you challenged him, and he accused you of being a "PC thought police censor Communist" what would you think?

[Gregory]

Gregory has a problem with Polish jokes, but thinks rape is funny ...


I am not outraged, nor do I think rape is funny*. I did call a racist joke racist, but it takes more than that to "outrage" me.

*the whole point of the joke was to get an emotional reaction by the disconnect caused by inserting something shockingly unpleasant and unfunny into a standard "joke" context; didn't I say it was shock humor?

[BirdStrike]

I am going to withdraw my derogatory accusation and retract the word idiot.

Cheers to that! :) Thanks.

That being said, I still do not understand the distinction you are making BirdStrike.

A joke is teasing, to say something in fun rather than in earnest. Specter isn't some rabid anti-Polish activist. He's just a guy who fanciest himself a part-time stand up comic. Last year he came in second at "The Funniest Celebrity in Washington Contest (http://www.funniestcelebrity.org/ThisYear.htm)." Who would have thunk it? :boggled:

But he is green and as a new "comic" this year he learned the importance of "relating to the audience." He "f-ed" up and tried to be funny in the wrong forum, a public luncheon, full of humorless stiffs who didn't come there to see a stand up comic. That's why the bad reaction.

Does the humorous intent mean it is not an ethnic slur? What about Grunion's questions in post #83:

Suppose one of our resident anti-semites, in the midst of one of his revisionist screeds, decided to make a comment about Jews being "good lampshade material" or some such horrific comment which he then claimed was a joke. Must we excuse it because he claimed to do it in the name of humor? Or would we be justified in the "joke" being further evidence of his anti-semitism? If you challenged him, and he accused you of being a "PC thought police censor Communist" what would you think?

Ok. Using Grunion's hypothetical the "resident anti-semite" is making an offensive joke because it's typical of his "revisionist screeds." And that joke can be taken as further evidence of his antisemitism. But I still wouldn't tell him what he can or can't say.

Why political correctness bugs me is because it creates a society that constantly walks on eggshells, where people hide their true feelings. And I rather know right away who's the "resident anti-semite," than not. ;)

[Skeptical Greg]

I am not outraged, nor do I think rape is funny*. I did call a racist joke racist, but it takes more than that to "outrage" me.

*the whole point of the joke was to get an emotional reaction by the disconnect caused by inserting something shockingly unpleasant and unfunny into a standard "joke" context; didn't I say it was shock humor?

You know all too well, I really cleaned things up when I restricted my comments to ' rape ' ..

In trying to defend yourself, your true colors begin to show even more.

[Gregory]

My true colors? Someone's feeling dramatic today. Well, if you don't like me, I guess I'll somehow manage to live with that.

[Skeptical Greg]

You should quit while you are ahead ... ( .. lets make that, breaking even ... )

Do we need to start a discussion about teddy bears ?