NE Woman Fired For Being a Witch?

[madurobob]

A woman has filed suit (http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/12/13/news/local/doc4942c95fa06bc553104199.txt) against the U. of Nebraska, claiming religious discrimination:
In February 2007, the woman, identified as Jane Doe, took a job with the university and was satisfactory in her performance, according to her lawsuit.

Then, her employer discovered she was a witch.

“When the defendant learned of plaintiff’s religion, plaintiff was terminated from her position, and was replaced by a non-witch,” the suit says.

OK, I assume her case has some merit since it was vetted by the Nebraska EEOC already. But I'm not sure where I stand on this one.

On the one hand it is wrong to fire or otherwise discriminate against a person simply because of religious beliefs. On the other hand, if the youth program's customers found out the center was run by a witch wouldn't they likely boycott the program (this is Nebraska, after all)? Does the university have to hold on to an employee that customers find offensive?

What do you think the University's defense will be?

[Drudgewire]

What do you think the University's defense will be?


If it's anything like the Florida case where the defendant claimed the same thing, I'd figure the defense will be a list of legitimate reasons to fire her that weren't based on a imagined claim of persecution after the fact.

[KingMerv00]

A woman has filed suit (http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/12/13/news/local/doc4942c95fa06bc553104199.txt) against the U. of Nebraska, claiming religious discrimination:


OK, I assume her case has some merit since it was vetted by the Nebraska EEOC already. But I'm not sure where I stand on this one.

On the one hand it is wrong to fire or otherwise discriminate against a person simply because of religious beliefs. On the other hand, if the youth program's customers found out the center was run by a witch wouldn't they likely boycott the program (this is Nebraska, after all)? Does the university have to hold on to an employee that customers find offensive?

Off the top of my head, I believe the state may only discriminate based on religion if religion is a bona fide occupation requirement of the job. My guess is bigoted customers probably wouldn't fit.

I may be wrong though.

What do you think the University's defense will be?

That she sucked at her job.

[madurobob]

That she sucked at her job.
yes - but for the fact that she apparently has good performance reviews. I imagine that was the basis for the EEOC agreeing the case had merit.

I guess if her boss was smart he would keep her on long enough to give her a couple of bad reviews, then let her go.

[WildCat]

Can't she get her job back by casting a spell?

[Drudgewire]

yes - but for the fact that she apparently has good performance reviews. I imagine that was the basis for the EEOC agreeing the case had merit.


I work in the employment industry. Trust me, there isn't a lot the EEOC doesn't greenlight for further review.

[KingMerv00]

Can't she get her job back by casting a spell?

Sure. She has a wide arsenal available.

Res ipsa loquitur avada kadavra, habeus corpus expecto patronum, pro bono expelliarmus, respondeat superior crucio , res judicata imperio.

[Arus808]

Well, Nebraska is a Right To Work state, so they can only fire her, if they provide proof that her religious belief was interfering with her performance or the work she had to do.
An Employer may not fire an employee if it would violate the state's public policy or a state or federal statute.

Unlike At-Will states, they can fire you for any reason.

[KingMerv00]

Unlike At-Will states, they can fire you for any reason.

I'm sure you know already but even if employment is at will, you cannot violate an employee's civil rights. No matter what, the Constitution comes first.

[tomwaits]

I have a feeling she was just incompetent.

[KingMerv00]

I have a feeling she was just incompetent.

Wouldn't surprise me.

[Cainkane1]

The termination is illegal. You can't discriminate against a person based on their religion.

[KingMerv00]

The termination is illegal. You can't discriminate against a person based on their religion.

Right. IF she was fired solely for being a witch.

[Rob Lister]

The termination is illegal. You can't discriminate against a person based on their religion.

The termination may or may not be illegal. We [so far] only have version of the events.

Maybe she sucked at her job. Maybe she stole office supplies. Maybe she was having sex with a dead horse (reference to latest Jon Stewart show).

Let's make it interesting: maybe she was proselytizing to the youths (yuts to those of you from NY).

[madurobob]

I have a feeling she was just incompetent.

Sure, the question is if they define incompetent as "being a witch". Again, she did have good performance reviews.

But, what really surprises me is the utter lack in this thread of references to ducks, newts, bridges, very small rocks and Sir Belvedere.

[Darth Rotor]

A woman has filed suit (http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/12/13/news/local/doc4942c95fa06bc553104199.txt) against the U. of Nebraska, claiming religious discrimination:


OK, I assume her case has some merit since it was vetted by the Nebraska EEOC already. But I'm not sure where I stand on this one.

On the one hand it is wrong to fire or otherwise discriminate against a person simply because of religious beliefs. On the other hand, if the youth program's customers found out the center was run by a witch wouldn't they likely boycott the program (this is Nebraska, after all)? Does the university have to hold on to an employee that customers find offensive?

What do you think the University's defense will be?
Not enough information. Having been involved in some hiring and firing in my day, much more info needed on this one.

(Did they at least have the courtesy of using the larder scales?)

DR

[KingMerv00]

Sure, the question is if they define incompetent as "being a witch". Again, she did have good performance reviews.

Sure. According to HER.

In February 2007, the woman, identified as Jane Doe, took a job with the university and was satisfactory in her performance, according to her lawsuit.

I don't see any mention of official performance reviews.

[neltana]

Right, this could be completely baseless. We have no way of knowing whether the allegations are true. It wouldn't be hard to imagine circumstances where an employee who was fired for cause made up such a charge.

<hypothetical>
However, I could totally see the charges being true. I live in an area that has a lot of witches (in relative terms) and I have personally seen how this freaks people out. I could totally see a supervisor getting a number of very vocal complaints about this.

I personally don't think it is right to fire someone under these circumstances, any more than I think it would be right to fire someone for being an atheist or a catholic. I would find it sad if an organization had given in to such pressures.
</hypothetical>

[CFLarsen]

She looks like one.

And she turned me into a newt.

[Agatha]

A newt?

[Ysidro]

Sir Belvedere? So Mister Belvedere ended up with a knighthood?

Or did you mean Sir Bedevere (Bedivere)? :P

[ponderingturtle]

The termination may or may not be illegal. We [so far] only have version of the events.

Maybe she sucked at her job. Maybe she stole office supplies. Maybe she was having sex with a dead horse (reference to latest Jon Stewart show).

Let's make it interesting: maybe she was proselytizing to the youths (yuts to those of you from NY).

True only christians have the right to do that at work.

[tomwaits]

True only christians have the right to do that at work.

They do? If someone at my office was proselytizing, I know the management would tell them to cut it out or they would be gone.

[Safe-Keeper]

Ducks, bridges, and very small rocks. That is all.

[Tailgater]

She misunderstood them. They fired her when they discovered she was a bitch.

[PhantomWolf]

I see that the forum is showing it's wonderful tolerance of others yet again.

[KingMerv00]

I see that the forum is showing it's wonderful tolerance of others yet again.

Huh? Only one person said anything negative about a group. How do you extrapolate that to mean "the forum" as a whole?

[PhantomWolf]

Huh? Only one person said anything negative about a group. How do you extrapolate that to mean "the forum" as a whole?

Actually I count 7 snide or irrellevant personally aimed comments.

[KingMerv00]

Actually I count 7 snide or irrellevant personally aimed comments.

Let's go through them.

A woman has filed suit (http://journalstar.com/articles/2008/12/13/news/local/doc4942c95fa06bc553104199.txt) against the U. of Nebraska, claiming religious discrimination:


OK, I assume her case has some merit since it was vetted by the Nebraska EEOC already. But I'm not sure where I stand on this one.

On the one hand it is wrong to fire or otherwise discriminate against a person simply because of religious beliefs. On the other hand, if the youth program's customers found out the center was run by a witch wouldn't they likely boycott the program (this is Nebraska, after all)? Does the university have to hold on to an employee that customers find offensive?

What do you think the University's defense will be?

Nope.

If it's anything like the Florida case where the defendant claimed the same thing, I'd figure the defense will be a list of legitimate reasons to fire her that weren't based on a imagined claim of persecution after the fact.

Nope.

Off the top of my head, I believe the state may only discriminate based on religion if religion is a bona fide occupation requirement of the job. My guess is bigoted customers probably wouldn't fit.

I may be wrong though.



That she sucked at her job.

Nope.

yes - but for the fact that she apparently has good performance reviews. I imagine that was the basis for the EEOC agreeing the case had merit.

I guess if her boss was smart he would keep her on long enough to give her a couple of bad reviews, then let her go.

Nope.

Can't she get her job back by casting a spell?

A gag. Not really intolerant.

I work in the employment industry. Trust me, there isn't a lot the EEOC doesn't greenlight for further review.

Nope.

Sure. She has a wide arsenal available.

Res ipsa loquitur avada kadavra, habeus corpus expecto patronum, pro bono expelliarmus, respondeat superior crucio , res judicata imperio.

A gag. Not intolerant.

Well, Nebraska is a Right To Work state, so they can only fire her, if they provide proof that her religious belief was interfering with her performance or the work she had to do.
An Employer may not fire an employee if it would violate the state's public policy or a state or federal statute.

Unlike At-Will states, they can fire you for any reason.

I'm sure you know already but even if employment is at will, you cannot violate an employee's civil rights. No matter what, the Constitution comes first.

I have a feeling she was just incompetent.

Wouldn't surprise me.

The termination is illegal. You can't discriminate against a person based on their religion.

Right. IF she was fired solely for being a witch.

The termination may or may not be illegal. We [so far] only have version of the events.

Maybe she sucked at her job. Maybe she stole office supplies. Maybe she was having sex with a dead horse (reference to latest Jon Stewart show).

Let's make it interesting: maybe she was proselytizing to the youths (yuts to those of you from NY).

Sure, the question is if they define incompetent as "being a witch". Again, she did have good performance reviews.

But, what really surprises me is the utter lack in this thread of references to ducks, newts, bridges, very small rocks and Sir Belvedere.

Nope. Bit of Monty Python.

Not enough information. Having been involved in some hiring and firing in my day, much more info needed on this one.

(Did they at least have the courtesy of using the larder scales?)

DR

Sure. According to HER.



I don't see any mention of official performance reviews.

Right, this could be completely baseless. We have no way of knowing whether the allegations are true. It wouldn't be hard to imagine circumstances where an employee who was fired for cause made up such a charge.

<hypothetical>
However, I could totally see the charges being true. I live in an area that has a lot of witches (in relative terms) and I have personally seen how this freaks people out. I could totally see a supervisor getting a number of very vocal complaints about this.

I personally don't think it is right to fire someone under these circumstances, any more than I think it would be right to fire someone for being an atheist or a catholic. I would find it sad if an organization had given in to such pressures.
</hypothetical>

Nope.

She looks like one.

And she turned me into a newt.

A newt?

Sir Belvedere? So Mister Belvedere ended up with a knighthood?

Or did you mean Sir Bedevere (Bedivere)? :P

More Monty P.

True only christians have the right to do that at work.

Ok. I'm sure this is a joke but I guess it could be seen as intolerant.

They do? If someone at my office was proselytizing, I know the management would tell them to cut it out or they would be gone.

Nope.

Ducks, bridges, and very small rocks. That is all.

Monty.

She misunderstood them. They fired her when they discovered she was a bitch.

Funny.

I see that the forum is showing it's wonderful tolerance of others yet again.

Overly sensative.

Huh? Only one person said anything negative about a group. How do you extrapolate that to mean "the forum" as a whole?

Me.

Actually I count 7 snide or irrellevant personally aimed comments.

And back to the beginning.

I assume you are counting the Monty Python and Harry Potter jokes as "personal", "snide", or "intolerant". If so, you need a thicker skin. I've made atheist baby eating jokes in here. That must mean I hate atheists.

[Madalch]

We are not intolerant. We reserve the right to be snide to all people equally.

[neltana]

Well, 7/28 shows that the majority of the forum isn't snide...good job guys!

ETA: And I'm not conceding the 7 are snide, just saying that wouldn't be evidence that the forum on the whole was snide.

[Tricky]

I know lots of witches. Some of them are very cool and fun and discreet people. Some are just as fanatical as any fundamentalist Christian. If, as a youth program director, she was telling kids "how cool it was to be a witch" I would find that no less objectionable than having a Christian youth program director who proselytized her religion. Both should be firable offenses.

[Foolmewunz]

Waiting for the rest of the story, I am.

[Drudgewire]

If it's anything like the Florida case where the defendant claimed the same thing, I'd figure the defense will be a list of legitimate reasons to fire her that weren't based on a imagined claim of persecution after the fact.

And for those who don't remember the Florida story and how "wizardry" became a great cover for "job performance" (in addition to how the Internet took one side of the story and ran with it) here's the fallout:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/article511648.ece

"The teacher was very smart," said Sree Sreenivasan, a professor of new media at the Columbia University School of Journalism. "It was in his interest to spin it the way he did. … That's a headline I would click and read."


ETA: What a shock, douchebag Keith Olbermann was among those who never bothered to look into the story before going off half-cocked about it.

[Dancing David]

Can't she get her job back by casting a spell?


That depends upon the counter spells as well...

[Dancing David]

I am always careful about disclosing anything about religion or lack there of to fellow employees, on M,W,F I am a wiccan High Priest, on Tu,TH, Sat I am a buddhist and on Sundays I am a nihilist.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I am always careful about disclosing anything about religion or lack there of to fellow employees, on M,W,F I am a wiccan High Priest, on Tu,TH, Sat I am a buddhist and on Sundays I am a nihilist.

Sure, you picked Sundays for nihilism just so you would not have to go to a coven or attend at temple! I'm a nihilist all week long so even the Seven Day Adventists don't expect me to show up at worship. ;)

[korenyx]

Sure. She has a wide arsenal available.

Res ipsa loquitur avada kadavra, habeus corpus expecto patronum, pro bono expelliarmus, respondeat superior crucio , res judicata imperio.


(derail)
You just turned me into a newt. Try again, I would rather be a snake. :D
(end derail)

Most of the Wiccans I know fly under the radar but living in the middle of Kansas probably has a lot to do with that.

[bignickel]

Search for 'newt'.

Dangit.

Beaten again.

[ponderingturtle]

Ok. I'm sure this is a joke but I guess it could be seen as intolerant.



Well joke, relating to the fact that the religion you are most likely to get pushed on you at work or anywhere else is some form of christianity.

Personaly I think discussing religion and politics have no place at work.