Jono
19th December 2008, 09:10 PM
I'd appreciate some commentary on this post;
[the following site is, I believe, a hate-speech registered site so it would be advisable not to access it on terminals at work]
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6259166&postcount=642
Here's a transcribed copy; [commentary without quotes are those of the pro-molten steel truther-purporter]
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Partially evaporated steel. Do you know the temp required to even make steel boil, as a general estimate? 5,000-5,200F. It can't turn into vapor until it has long passed these temperatures, are you suggesting this actually happend?
Liquids evaporate well before reaching boiling point. The partly evaporated steel is further proof that the heat source was more than capable of melting the steel, but easily within the capabilities of a thermite reaction.
there is no proof given that this would have been steel or even iron, as opposed to aluminum material.
The anti-truthers frequently repeat their mantra "there is no proof", but they should learn a bit about probability theory. When you have a series of improbable events, it is not fair (to the anti-truthers) to simply multiply all the probabilities and obtain an unrealistically high improbability (e.g. as someone did regarding Peter Power's exercises (http://www.911myths.com/html/7_7_exercise_probabilities.html) on the morning of the London 7/7 bombings). However, the product should not be totally discounted. This is because the set of events whose truth table is correlated with that of whether 9/11 was a Zionist job is a small subset of the infinite events in the universe.
Furthermore, for arguments sake, even if there was some hotspots that had amounts of steel molten, it wouldn't be, as it were, proof of any explosives/CD.
Maybe not to those who work from a faith-based (e.g. "Israel / Jews / Bush can do no wrong") as opposed to a scientifically based epistemology.
So now you're proposing that steel melted in oxygen-starved underground fires mostly comprised of concrete and steel, where 99.9% of the material was either non-combustibles, cold or already burnt. Although, naturally, you dispute that hundreds of thousands of tons of compressed debris is oxygen-starved, postulating that tiny chimneys in the debris pile were sufficient to oxygenate the fires. However, firefighters were spraying "a nearly constant jet of water (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/archive/main321907.shtml)" on the debris pile, which they described as like "creating a giant lake". If the smoke could flow out the top of these chimneys, the water would flow into the top.
And the anti-truthers' impossibly hot debris pile fires must be added to the long list of other impossibilities and outlandish improbabilities such as Hani Hanjour the ace pilot, the thermal expansion-based high-rise collapse, high-rises designed to survive the impact and dumping of the fuel load from an aircraft that proceed to collapse in accordance with the Zionist Mafia's globalist program, office fires that melt aluminum that collects in oddly sagging floor slabs and looks like molten iron when it pours out the building, devout Muslims with such a hatred of Western values that they are prepared to kill thousands and meet their Allah but still like Western values enough to get in a bit of womanising, drinking and gambling, suicide hijackers who can be simultaneously dead and alive like Schrodinger's cat, air defenses that don't defend, liars - e.g. Bush - who tell the truth, hijackers who get ten out of ten for executing a brilliant military feat but score zero for game theory, Muslims who are into speculating with call and put options, Muslims with an uncanny ability to infiltrate intelligence agencies to discover when the NRO was staging a drill of a plane crashing into one of its towers, Muslims who telepathically let the Mossad know when they are going to crash planes into a building so the Mossad can set up their cameras in advance and tell Larry Silverstein to take over the lease and visit his dermatologist at the appropriate time, etc.
And cherry red steel, what would be odd about that. Just today when I put steel into the oven for purpose of hardening, as it had reached some 400-420oC it was cherry red,
Do you think we were born yesterday? Cherry red steel is 700 C or more; see this list:
"Colour Temperatures
The colour of a piece of steel may be used as a guide to it's temperature. These are particulalrly useful when hardening or tempering steel. Colour °C
Pale yellow 221
Straw 230
Golden yellow 243
Brown 254
Brown to purple 266
Purple 277
Bright blue 288
Blue 293
Dark blue 316
Just visible red 500 to 600
Dull cherry red 700 to 750
Cherry red 750 to 825
Bright cherry red 825 to 875
Brightest red 900 to 950
Orange 950 to 1000
Light orange 1000 to 1050
Lemon 1100 to 1200
White 1200 to 1300
"
Or see the color chart here:
http://www.westyorkssteel.com/images/htchar1.gif
How much aluminum do you think your "underground fires" could melt in each hot spot? I don't believe they would melt any, since smothering with concrete dust will extinguish a fire. However, to keep the "fruit loop" going, let's suppose your fires could melt as much as 10 kg in hot spots. The heat transfer required to solidify is 10 times 398 kJ/kg for the latent heat of fusion equalling 3.98 MJ.
Compare that with a hot spot of 20 tonnes of molten iron and steel from a thermite-based demolition of a critical core column. The heat transfer required to solidify from 2500 C is the mass in kg times the sum of 250 kJ/kg for the latent heat of fusion and 725 times 1000 given 725 J/kg.K for the sensible heat capacity at high temperatures and a 1500 C melting point.
So 20,000 * {250,000 + (725 * 1,000)} =
, which amounts to 19.5 GJ, or 4,899 times higher than the molten aluminum hot spot.
It is clear that the molten iron and steel from a controlled demolition is more likely to persist for weeks compared to molten aluminum from a fire.
If there were chimneys in the debris pile, with a few pieces of paper, bits of plastic and pieces of wood poking out of the sides of this pile of mostly concrete dust, how long do you think it would take these pieces of paper, etc to burn through? Half an hour? An hour? Certainly not weeks. Yet if we believe the molten aluminum theorists, molten aluminum was being created almost whenever anyone was looking at the debris pile. From "fires" of wet, burning concrete!
In fact, some concrete got so hot that it melted (melting point around 1800 C). Police guns were found to be fused and encased in concrete. (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc56/poseidon888/GunEncasedInConcrete2-1.png)
also temps quite swiftly achievable by ordinary fires even, let alone the very large amounts of combustible compunds mixed in the piles.
My bedroom contains a carpet, wooden furniture, books, paper, etc. Yet I can sleep soundly because not all of the conditions required for fire are satisfied.
Below the fire zone, the combustibles should have been cold in the official account, and were isolated by dozens of stories of concrete between them and the fire zone floors. And it would be remarkable if the entire fire load on the upper floors had burned to contribute to the collapses, and then burned a second time - even though that still couldn't account for the molten metal.
Furthermore, for molten steel to drip off of a steel column [concerning witness reports of "molten steel], when both have been in place for some time, the column and dripping steel would have to be in thermal equilibrium. Since steel has a significant heat of fusion, we must assume the liquid and a portion of the solid steel were at the same temperature. If this were true, portions of the steel column would have softened to virtually zero strength or even melted around the edges, and it would be impossible to pull the beam free without grossly distorting it or actually leaving the half-melted portions behind.
Did any of the witnesses swear that the beams were in perfect condition, or they hadn't left half-melted portions behind?
Further calculations by Greening:
---
The heat release vs. time data in NCSTAR 1-5E show that each WTC workstation burned with a relatively constant heat release rate for about 1500 seconds (25 minutes) from which we conclude that 225 kg of combustibles were consumed per workstation or 45,000 kg (45 tonnes) per floor. If the average heat of combustion of the burning material in the Towers was 16 MJ/kg, the energy released in the fires on one floor prior to collapse was 45,000 kg ? 16 MJ/kg = 720 GJ per floor. Now 720 GJ of heat energy released in 1500 seconds is 720,000 MJ/1500 sec or 480 MW per floor. Thus:
The typical fire in the impact zones of WTC 1 & 2 sustained a heat release
rate of 480 MW per floor, (or 2.4 MW per workstation), for 25 minutes.
Assuming a fuel load equivalent to 30 kg/m^2 of wood with a calorific value of 12 MJ/kg allowing for fuel-rich stoichiometry, and that it burns up locally within about 20 minutes with the flames then moving on to unburned fuel, the total heat release would be 30 * 12 MJ = 360 MJ per square meter. Over 20 minutes the heat release rate would be 300 kW/m^2.
Now, suppose the same fuel load is burning slowly, so as to be sustained over a period of 7 weeks. The heat release rate is 360 MJ / (7 * 7 * 24 * 3600) = 85 watts per square meter, smaller by a factor of 3,528 (which is 49 * 24 * 3).
85 W/m^2 is less than the approximately 250 W/m^2 of solar radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation) received at the Earth's surface when the sun is directly overhead. And yet the anti-truthers assert that these "fires" can regularly melt aluminum for weeks on end!
And, as noted on before, the amounts of combustible mass and hydrocarbon material/plastic et al, fuel and oil supply, we have there inherent all that would be needed for cherry-red steel still as so after 8 weeks, yet no evidence of molten steel as differentiated and seperated from other molten metal compunds.
99.9% of the pile was supposed to be cold, burned or non-combustibles, potential fuel was smothered with thousands of tons of concrete and isolated from other fuel, heat and oxygen. Any potential chimneys were soaked with thousands of gallons of water from intensive hosing. The debris pile should not have produced red steel or molten metal, much less molten steel!
There is real no way for "pools of steel" to have been present by force of thermite/thermate, since the steel would've cooled off quite quickly after the incindiery effect came immediately.
It wouldn't have cooled off quickly since it was tightly surrounded by insulated material. The heat flow rates into these insulators would be in the order of hundreds to thousands of watts per square meter, compared with tens of kilowatts per square meter for heat radiated away from an exposed source.
The only way for such heat to sustain itself for so many days, weeks would require good combustion of the material inside... ie, the stuff in the piles would have to provide the continous heat through burning itself, which gives by default more credibility to the massive heat the stuff in WTC's could provide and make thermate/thermite even more moot a theory.
Yet the heat release rate would be comparable to weak sunlight - hardly sufficient to melt aluminum!
Well now you are talking about, what is in your video concerning the slight flow of metal sparks and drops from one corner.
I've seen this particular corner used a lot to claim molten steel, showing a bit of glowing splur from the section where the plane had crashed to a halt into one of the WTC's corner, where much of the planes aluminum alloy where expectedly tight-lodged into the building, not to mention potential transistors or battery sections etc, all of which are more credible and probable variables than flowing steel.
The perpetrators - and some of the shills - would be well aware of why this flow originated from the NE corner of WTC2. Thermate was installed in the hollow perimeter columns on three walls in the Towers' impact zones in order to create the illusion of "fire-induced collapses". The wall that was to be hit by the aircraft was not thermated, half the columns would be taken out by the impact. And critical core columns were targeted in the basement as an additional guarantee that global collapse would ensue. The core columns left the biggest molten metal fingerprint; the perimeter columns were responsible for iron-rich spherules and red chips found in the dust.
The operator steered UA175 too far to the right, missing the core and damaging thermated perimeter columns that were not supposed to be heavily impacted, with the result that the iron-sulfur slurry poured out in the final minutes leading up to the planned collapse. They could make it into a film with Michael Caine as the irate arch-villain: "You were only supposed to cut through the b***** columns, not shoot the molten iron out the windows in full view of the cameras!"
The controlled demolition hypothesis fits the data, in contrast with the "normal building fire caused molten metal" claims. The aluminum would have needed to have heated well beyond its melting point, say up to about 900 C and even then its emissivity would be too low. A lot of it would need to have melted to account for the observed flow, which would in any case have been too rapid for the possible rate of heating by the fire. Thus, the "molten aluminum" theory requires that a concrete slab sagged along two axes so that the molten aluminum could pool and heat up beyond its melting point, then the slab mysteriously reverts to peaking up in the center so the melt can flow outside. This process then repeats itself several times in the minutes prior to collapse.
Ever tried folding a piece of paper along two axes? Next, try it with four inches of lightweight concrete, 22-gage steel decking, and steel trusses.
Below is a message from Stephen D. Chastain of Metal Talk.
Chastain has been exposed as a liar in the same mould as Judy "space beam weapons" Wood for using images of molten steel and claiming it was aluminum. E.g. here and here:
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:1IHc0L6SbL4J:www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi%3FArtNum%3D68831%26SC%3D41%26EC%3D80+s teven+chastain+%22what+you+are+doing+is+quoting+a+ liar%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
http://www.911blogger.com/node/4519?page=1
...which also discusses the absurdity of the "molten metal produced by normal building fires and in debris pile" claims.
No those calculations do not take into effect the hot-spots allegedly of molten metal shifting from both of semi, closed and rich ventilation dynamics at all, it also presumes that the pool of alleged steel (to which there is no evidence it was steel even) grew deeper and fixated then met perfectly with adjanted hot-spot material already of the same temperature flowing down, without corroborating the calculations with evidenced qualities of steel continously keeping steel molten under said conditions, plus your calculations assert that the reached pool would be of certain volume while any adjanted flow would be minimal considering it sticks to other debris material and cools off quickly unless confined in an ideal pour-flow canal.
It is clear that molten steel is the only hypothesis that is in accordance with the facts. Otherwise, we must postulate a temporary, localised suspension of natural and scientific law, in which impossible fires burn in a smothered, wet, oxygen-starved debris pile that is comprised of 97% non-combustibles.
Heat always flows from higher temperatures to lower temperatures, it would be unrealistic to argue it was containable in those piles to keep actual steel liquified for 8 weeks in large pools or rivers.
You should provide some actual figures to support this; anyone can make vague assertions. The steel was liquified in large quantities at the start, but would have been mostly solidified after a few weeks.
About 10% of the pile was steel, and furthermore you can't assume an oxygen starved scenario as the piles compression were ambivalently random from up and below, not concistently tight-packed all around blocking off any wind-tunnels etc.
If a few combustibles are smothered by thousands of tons of concrete dust then they are oxygen starved. There is little about the WTC phenomena to indicate that these were normal building fires.
[the following site is, I believe, a hate-speech registered site so it would be advisable not to access it on terminals at work]
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6259166&postcount=642
Here's a transcribed copy; [commentary without quotes are those of the pro-molten steel truther-purporter]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Partially evaporated steel. Do you know the temp required to even make steel boil, as a general estimate? 5,000-5,200F. It can't turn into vapor until it has long passed these temperatures, are you suggesting this actually happend?
Liquids evaporate well before reaching boiling point. The partly evaporated steel is further proof that the heat source was more than capable of melting the steel, but easily within the capabilities of a thermite reaction.
there is no proof given that this would have been steel or even iron, as opposed to aluminum material.
The anti-truthers frequently repeat their mantra "there is no proof", but they should learn a bit about probability theory. When you have a series of improbable events, it is not fair (to the anti-truthers) to simply multiply all the probabilities and obtain an unrealistically high improbability (e.g. as someone did regarding Peter Power's exercises (http://www.911myths.com/html/7_7_exercise_probabilities.html) on the morning of the London 7/7 bombings). However, the product should not be totally discounted. This is because the set of events whose truth table is correlated with that of whether 9/11 was a Zionist job is a small subset of the infinite events in the universe.
Furthermore, for arguments sake, even if there was some hotspots that had amounts of steel molten, it wouldn't be, as it were, proof of any explosives/CD.
Maybe not to those who work from a faith-based (e.g. "Israel / Jews / Bush can do no wrong") as opposed to a scientifically based epistemology.
So now you're proposing that steel melted in oxygen-starved underground fires mostly comprised of concrete and steel, where 99.9% of the material was either non-combustibles, cold or already burnt. Although, naturally, you dispute that hundreds of thousands of tons of compressed debris is oxygen-starved, postulating that tiny chimneys in the debris pile were sufficient to oxygenate the fires. However, firefighters were spraying "a nearly constant jet of water (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/12/19/archive/main321907.shtml)" on the debris pile, which they described as like "creating a giant lake". If the smoke could flow out the top of these chimneys, the water would flow into the top.
And the anti-truthers' impossibly hot debris pile fires must be added to the long list of other impossibilities and outlandish improbabilities such as Hani Hanjour the ace pilot, the thermal expansion-based high-rise collapse, high-rises designed to survive the impact and dumping of the fuel load from an aircraft that proceed to collapse in accordance with the Zionist Mafia's globalist program, office fires that melt aluminum that collects in oddly sagging floor slabs and looks like molten iron when it pours out the building, devout Muslims with such a hatred of Western values that they are prepared to kill thousands and meet their Allah but still like Western values enough to get in a bit of womanising, drinking and gambling, suicide hijackers who can be simultaneously dead and alive like Schrodinger's cat, air defenses that don't defend, liars - e.g. Bush - who tell the truth, hijackers who get ten out of ten for executing a brilliant military feat but score zero for game theory, Muslims who are into speculating with call and put options, Muslims with an uncanny ability to infiltrate intelligence agencies to discover when the NRO was staging a drill of a plane crashing into one of its towers, Muslims who telepathically let the Mossad know when they are going to crash planes into a building so the Mossad can set up their cameras in advance and tell Larry Silverstein to take over the lease and visit his dermatologist at the appropriate time, etc.
And cherry red steel, what would be odd about that. Just today when I put steel into the oven for purpose of hardening, as it had reached some 400-420oC it was cherry red,
Do you think we were born yesterday? Cherry red steel is 700 C or more; see this list:
"Colour Temperatures
The colour of a piece of steel may be used as a guide to it's temperature. These are particulalrly useful when hardening or tempering steel. Colour °C
Pale yellow 221
Straw 230
Golden yellow 243
Brown 254
Brown to purple 266
Purple 277
Bright blue 288
Blue 293
Dark blue 316
Just visible red 500 to 600
Dull cherry red 700 to 750
Cherry red 750 to 825
Bright cherry red 825 to 875
Brightest red 900 to 950
Orange 950 to 1000
Light orange 1000 to 1050
Lemon 1100 to 1200
White 1200 to 1300
"
Or see the color chart here:
http://www.westyorkssteel.com/images/htchar1.gif
How much aluminum do you think your "underground fires" could melt in each hot spot? I don't believe they would melt any, since smothering with concrete dust will extinguish a fire. However, to keep the "fruit loop" going, let's suppose your fires could melt as much as 10 kg in hot spots. The heat transfer required to solidify is 10 times 398 kJ/kg for the latent heat of fusion equalling 3.98 MJ.
Compare that with a hot spot of 20 tonnes of molten iron and steel from a thermite-based demolition of a critical core column. The heat transfer required to solidify from 2500 C is the mass in kg times the sum of 250 kJ/kg for the latent heat of fusion and 725 times 1000 given 725 J/kg.K for the sensible heat capacity at high temperatures and a 1500 C melting point.
So 20,000 * {250,000 + (725 * 1,000)} =
, which amounts to 19.5 GJ, or 4,899 times higher than the molten aluminum hot spot.
It is clear that the molten iron and steel from a controlled demolition is more likely to persist for weeks compared to molten aluminum from a fire.
If there were chimneys in the debris pile, with a few pieces of paper, bits of plastic and pieces of wood poking out of the sides of this pile of mostly concrete dust, how long do you think it would take these pieces of paper, etc to burn through? Half an hour? An hour? Certainly not weeks. Yet if we believe the molten aluminum theorists, molten aluminum was being created almost whenever anyone was looking at the debris pile. From "fires" of wet, burning concrete!
In fact, some concrete got so hot that it melted (melting point around 1800 C). Police guns were found to be fused and encased in concrete. (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc56/poseidon888/GunEncasedInConcrete2-1.png)
also temps quite swiftly achievable by ordinary fires even, let alone the very large amounts of combustible compunds mixed in the piles.
My bedroom contains a carpet, wooden furniture, books, paper, etc. Yet I can sleep soundly because not all of the conditions required for fire are satisfied.
Below the fire zone, the combustibles should have been cold in the official account, and were isolated by dozens of stories of concrete between them and the fire zone floors. And it would be remarkable if the entire fire load on the upper floors had burned to contribute to the collapses, and then burned a second time - even though that still couldn't account for the molten metal.
Furthermore, for molten steel to drip off of a steel column [concerning witness reports of "molten steel], when both have been in place for some time, the column and dripping steel would have to be in thermal equilibrium. Since steel has a significant heat of fusion, we must assume the liquid and a portion of the solid steel were at the same temperature. If this were true, portions of the steel column would have softened to virtually zero strength or even melted around the edges, and it would be impossible to pull the beam free without grossly distorting it or actually leaving the half-melted portions behind.
Did any of the witnesses swear that the beams were in perfect condition, or they hadn't left half-melted portions behind?
Further calculations by Greening:
---
The heat release vs. time data in NCSTAR 1-5E show that each WTC workstation burned with a relatively constant heat release rate for about 1500 seconds (25 minutes) from which we conclude that 225 kg of combustibles were consumed per workstation or 45,000 kg (45 tonnes) per floor. If the average heat of combustion of the burning material in the Towers was 16 MJ/kg, the energy released in the fires on one floor prior to collapse was 45,000 kg ? 16 MJ/kg = 720 GJ per floor. Now 720 GJ of heat energy released in 1500 seconds is 720,000 MJ/1500 sec or 480 MW per floor. Thus:
The typical fire in the impact zones of WTC 1 & 2 sustained a heat release
rate of 480 MW per floor, (or 2.4 MW per workstation), for 25 minutes.
Assuming a fuel load equivalent to 30 kg/m^2 of wood with a calorific value of 12 MJ/kg allowing for fuel-rich stoichiometry, and that it burns up locally within about 20 minutes with the flames then moving on to unburned fuel, the total heat release would be 30 * 12 MJ = 360 MJ per square meter. Over 20 minutes the heat release rate would be 300 kW/m^2.
Now, suppose the same fuel load is burning slowly, so as to be sustained over a period of 7 weeks. The heat release rate is 360 MJ / (7 * 7 * 24 * 3600) = 85 watts per square meter, smaller by a factor of 3,528 (which is 49 * 24 * 3).
85 W/m^2 is less than the approximately 250 W/m^2 of solar radiation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation) received at the Earth's surface when the sun is directly overhead. And yet the anti-truthers assert that these "fires" can regularly melt aluminum for weeks on end!
And, as noted on before, the amounts of combustible mass and hydrocarbon material/plastic et al, fuel and oil supply, we have there inherent all that would be needed for cherry-red steel still as so after 8 weeks, yet no evidence of molten steel as differentiated and seperated from other molten metal compunds.
99.9% of the pile was supposed to be cold, burned or non-combustibles, potential fuel was smothered with thousands of tons of concrete and isolated from other fuel, heat and oxygen. Any potential chimneys were soaked with thousands of gallons of water from intensive hosing. The debris pile should not have produced red steel or molten metal, much less molten steel!
There is real no way for "pools of steel" to have been present by force of thermite/thermate, since the steel would've cooled off quite quickly after the incindiery effect came immediately.
It wouldn't have cooled off quickly since it was tightly surrounded by insulated material. The heat flow rates into these insulators would be in the order of hundreds to thousands of watts per square meter, compared with tens of kilowatts per square meter for heat radiated away from an exposed source.
The only way for such heat to sustain itself for so many days, weeks would require good combustion of the material inside... ie, the stuff in the piles would have to provide the continous heat through burning itself, which gives by default more credibility to the massive heat the stuff in WTC's could provide and make thermate/thermite even more moot a theory.
Yet the heat release rate would be comparable to weak sunlight - hardly sufficient to melt aluminum!
Well now you are talking about, what is in your video concerning the slight flow of metal sparks and drops from one corner.
I've seen this particular corner used a lot to claim molten steel, showing a bit of glowing splur from the section where the plane had crashed to a halt into one of the WTC's corner, where much of the planes aluminum alloy where expectedly tight-lodged into the building, not to mention potential transistors or battery sections etc, all of which are more credible and probable variables than flowing steel.
The perpetrators - and some of the shills - would be well aware of why this flow originated from the NE corner of WTC2. Thermate was installed in the hollow perimeter columns on three walls in the Towers' impact zones in order to create the illusion of "fire-induced collapses". The wall that was to be hit by the aircraft was not thermated, half the columns would be taken out by the impact. And critical core columns were targeted in the basement as an additional guarantee that global collapse would ensue. The core columns left the biggest molten metal fingerprint; the perimeter columns were responsible for iron-rich spherules and red chips found in the dust.
The operator steered UA175 too far to the right, missing the core and damaging thermated perimeter columns that were not supposed to be heavily impacted, with the result that the iron-sulfur slurry poured out in the final minutes leading up to the planned collapse. They could make it into a film with Michael Caine as the irate arch-villain: "You were only supposed to cut through the b***** columns, not shoot the molten iron out the windows in full view of the cameras!"
The controlled demolition hypothesis fits the data, in contrast with the "normal building fire caused molten metal" claims. The aluminum would have needed to have heated well beyond its melting point, say up to about 900 C and even then its emissivity would be too low. A lot of it would need to have melted to account for the observed flow, which would in any case have been too rapid for the possible rate of heating by the fire. Thus, the "molten aluminum" theory requires that a concrete slab sagged along two axes so that the molten aluminum could pool and heat up beyond its melting point, then the slab mysteriously reverts to peaking up in the center so the melt can flow outside. This process then repeats itself several times in the minutes prior to collapse.
Ever tried folding a piece of paper along two axes? Next, try it with four inches of lightweight concrete, 22-gage steel decking, and steel trusses.
Below is a message from Stephen D. Chastain of Metal Talk.
Chastain has been exposed as a liar in the same mould as Judy "space beam weapons" Wood for using images of molten steel and claiming it was aluminum. E.g. here and here:
http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:1IHc0L6SbL4J:www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi%3FArtNum%3D68831%26SC%3D41%26EC%3D80+s teven+chastain+%22what+you+are+doing+is+quoting+a+ liar%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
http://www.911blogger.com/node/4519?page=1
...which also discusses the absurdity of the "molten metal produced by normal building fires and in debris pile" claims.
No those calculations do not take into effect the hot-spots allegedly of molten metal shifting from both of semi, closed and rich ventilation dynamics at all, it also presumes that the pool of alleged steel (to which there is no evidence it was steel even) grew deeper and fixated then met perfectly with adjanted hot-spot material already of the same temperature flowing down, without corroborating the calculations with evidenced qualities of steel continously keeping steel molten under said conditions, plus your calculations assert that the reached pool would be of certain volume while any adjanted flow would be minimal considering it sticks to other debris material and cools off quickly unless confined in an ideal pour-flow canal.
It is clear that molten steel is the only hypothesis that is in accordance with the facts. Otherwise, we must postulate a temporary, localised suspension of natural and scientific law, in which impossible fires burn in a smothered, wet, oxygen-starved debris pile that is comprised of 97% non-combustibles.
Heat always flows from higher temperatures to lower temperatures, it would be unrealistic to argue it was containable in those piles to keep actual steel liquified for 8 weeks in large pools or rivers.
You should provide some actual figures to support this; anyone can make vague assertions. The steel was liquified in large quantities at the start, but would have been mostly solidified after a few weeks.
About 10% of the pile was steel, and furthermore you can't assume an oxygen starved scenario as the piles compression were ambivalently random from up and below, not concistently tight-packed all around blocking off any wind-tunnels etc.
If a few combustibles are smothered by thousands of tons of concrete dust then they are oxygen starved. There is little about the WTC phenomena to indicate that these were normal building fires.