Jews lie about Finland

[moon1969]

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=381&PID=470&IID=1507

Tarnish record ah? So should we in Finland have sent all of our jews to Nazi Germany?

[moon1969]

Even after all we did to help jews I see headlines like "Finland"s tarnished holocaust record"? Complete lies that jews tell. I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany. So my point is that Finland was not a Nazi state so jews stop lying.

[MarkCorrigan]

I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany.

Wow.

Just....wow.

[moon1969]

So typical for the jews no matter how much Finland helped them still trying to make us look bad and anti-semitic. Get this to your thick head. Finland was not a fascist state. We were not a Nazi State God how can the jews lie like that. Shame on you jews for lying about Finland.

[Fiona]

*muses* sometimes, if something really annoys you, it is best to stop seeking it out. It makes for a happier life.

[MarkCorrigan]

So typical for the jews no matter how much Finland helped them still trying to make us look bad and anti-semitic. Get this to your thick head. Finland was not a fascist state. We were not a Nazi State God how can the jews lie like that. Shame on you jews for lying about Finland.

You know I'm not jewish right?

[drkitten]

So Finland was not a fascist state. We were not a Nazi State

Much to your regret, huh?


I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany.


Apparently so.

[Cavemonster]

Mark, Fiona and anyone following.

Please do not post in troll threads, it only encourages them.

[CFLarsen]

What, exactly, are the lies?

[Skeptic]

In other words, moon1969 is annoyed that those dirty, lying Jooooos are calling Finlanders antisemitic.

[Cavemonster]

Please do not post in troll threads, it only encourages them.

[chillzero]

Everyone, please remember Rule 12. Do not focus on individual members. Please respond to the posts, and not the posters. If you are unable to do so, refrain from posting. If you feel a topic unworthy of discussion, don't post.

If you feel a post is blatently and completely inaccurate, then please clarify why that is the case for those readers who may not have all the facts at hand.

Cavemonster - please stop those posts. Address the topic, and not the individual. You aren't being helpful or constructive.

[H3LL]

Please do not post in troll threads, it only encourages them.

The JREF forums are moderated to encourage trolls. It is a troll-friendly zone. If you don't like it you can always leave as some have.

BTW, you are off-topic and may be subject to moderation. With two instances in one thread a ban may be on the cards.

Just so you know.


;)

[H3LL]

Moded while I typed.

Amazing. :)

[paximperium]

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=381&PID=470&IID=1507

Tarnish record ah? So should we in Finland have sent all of our jews to Nazi Germany?

"Sana claims that the handing over was a systematic practice of both the Finnish police and the military. Part of the deportations was a population exchange: the Finns were interested to receive Finnish-related POWs and citizens so as to settle them in Eastern Karelia, and in return, the Germans received POWs captured by Finland. After the war, Valpo, the Finnish national police force, destroyed large parts of its archives. Nevertheless, Sana, in other archives in Finland and Germany, managed to find documents that directly involved Valpo head Arno Anthoni and Gestapo chief Heinrich Müller.



"When the transfer of Soviet POWs to the Gestapo became known, Efraim Zuroff, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Israel, wrote a letter to the president of Finland, Tarja Halonen, requesting information on the deportation of Jews from Finland to Germany during the war:
I am writing to you in the wake of recent revelations by Finnish researcher Elina Sana, that Finland turned over approximately three thousand foreigners to Nazi Germany during World War II, among them a considerable number of political officers of the Red Army and Soviet Jewish prisoners of war. They were thereby, in effect, sentenced to almost certain death.... I am certain that you would agree that such revelations require a forthright response by the Finnish authorities and appropriate measures to acknowledge the wrongdoing and if possible, hold those responsible accountable for their misdeeds.

"Surprisingly, within twenty-four hours President Halonen replied: ‘I accept your letter and I have appointed a professor at Helsinki University to prepare for me a portfolio on the subject and we will indeed do research on the subject.' The professor in question is the legal historian, Prof. Emeritus Heikki Ylikangas."3
No. Finland should not have sent ANYONE, Jews or none-Jews, to the Nazis.

[paximperium]

Even after all we did to help jews I see headlines like "Finland"s tarnished holocaust record"? Complete lies that jews tell. I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany. So my point is that Finland was not a Nazi state so jews stop lying.
Oh why did the Finnish Prime Minister and Finnish government lie as well?
Speaking in Helsinki at the unveiling of a monument to eight Jewish refugees who were deported to Nazi Germany on November 6th 1942, Finnish Prime Minister Paavo Lipponen apologised on behalf of Finland and the Finns for what was "a moment of shame in the country's history".
http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20001106IE4

[Foolmewunz]

Without getting modded can someone explain to me the two quotes of Moon that are apparently (no longer) not in his posts in this thread?

> Do I assume correctly that he went back and edited it after the two posts citing the original repulsive line?

[Cainkane1]

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=381&PID=470&IID=1507

Tarnish record ah? So should we in Finland have sent all of our jews to Nazi Germany?
Its my guess that the bad guys are dead. Do what it takes to ensure that this sort of thing never happens again and the the past be the past. No reason to bring up issues like this.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

So typical for the jews no matter how much Finland helped them still trying to make us look bad and anti-semitic. Get this to your thick head. Finland was not a fascist state. We were not a Nazi State God how can the jews lie like that. Shame on you jews for lying about Finland.

I agree. Damn those jews! Isn't it enough for them to control the world's financial system? Now they have to go and pick on non-fascist Finland.

Shameful.

[calebprime]

... I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany. ...

You are explicitly advocating the certain death of a large group of people.

You quoted something you have an issue with. You say it is lies. You need to support this.

Mods: this should be moved to Politics or Conspiracy Theories.

[Thunder]

I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany.

that is a horrible thing to say. you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Nogbad]

In other words, moon1969 is annoyed that those dirty, lying Jooooos are calling Finlanders antisemitic.

Ironic or what? :eye-poppi

[fuelair]

Even after all we did to help jews I see headlines like "Finland"s tarnished holocaust record"? Complete lies that jews tell. I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany. So my point is that Finland was not a Nazi state so jews stop lying.
Even if you were right, I doubt seriously that most Jews give a flying crap about Finland, Bulgaria, Algeria, Monaco, etc.. I don't in any general way. Not offensive but there are a lot of smaller countries and I frankly don't have time to think of each/most of them a heck of a lot. I wish them luck and all that, but in the big scheme of things........

I do like Finlandia and the Kalevala if it helps you fel better about this.:)

[Thunder]

Ironic or what? :eye-poppi

i love it when anti-semites say:

" we are not anti-semitic!!....you dirty, filthy, christ-killing jews better stop calling us anti-semitic!!"

[Baby Nemesis]

Even after all we did to help jews I see headlines like "Finland"s tarnished holocaust record"? Complete lies that jews tell. I think Finland should have sent all of its jews to Nazi Germany. So my point is that Finland was not a Nazi state so jews stop lying.

Moon, you know, I think you could do better than resorting to such crude uninventiveness in your revenge wishfulness. I mean, if you hate the Jews, instead of wishing violence on them, why not get creative, and perhaps enjoy yourself with amusing imagery, for example imagining they're all only a few inches tall, and they run around on this board deciding where to post, and when they do, they speak what they want to say in little high-pitched voices, and they have special machines that translate it into text. You could make up all kinds of amusing things.

Or alternatively, you could go the whole hog like another poster did recently about ... a place, and find an excuse to start threads prophesying the wrath of God coming down to destroy the whole of their civilisation. :D

Then again, most of the people who've been horrible to you here aren't Jews. So they might deserve more hatred than the Jews here. Why not try and calculate the proportion of hatred their particular ethnic groups deserve because the non-Jews who've been horrible to you are a part of them, in relation to how much the Jews deserve, and dole out the hatred in proportion? I mean, for instance, if two non-Jewish Americans are horrible to you on the same day a Jewish one is, why not calculate your response so it has twice the hatred for the non-Jews as it does for the Jews?

Then again, you'd also have to take into account the virrulance of the hatred of each person. That could make your calculations quite complex. :)

Alternatively, you could go off and do something more enjoyable with your life, knowing that whatever gets said about what the government of Finland did or didn't do in the Second World War won't be held against Finland nowadays by the majority of people. I mean, for example, there is still some anti-German feeling around, but Germans are often welcomed around Europe nowadays. In fact, a German woman told me only recently that Dresden in Germany is twinned with Coventry in England, because they both got heavily bombed by the other's air force. So if lots of people are friendly to Germans now, not many people are going to take much notice of what people say about something that may or may not have gone on on a much smaller scale somewhere else.

[Thunder]

i am going to assume, that Moon has never once met a Jew. i sense great insecurity and a troubled past.

[SimonD]

Moon1969 lies about Jews

[hgc]

i am going to assume, that Moon has never once met a Jew. i sense great insecurity and a troubled past.


He wouldn't know, since most of them have sawed off their horns, and dark, curly hair covers the stubs.

[Scazon]

It's a good job I know a few Finns, otherwise I might be tempted to regret that Stalin didn't annexe the whole lot, not just Karelia.

[Zep]

Mods: this should be moved to Politics or Conspiracy Theories.AAH, please.

[timhau]

Damn those Joos for pointing out that we bought German goodwill (which translated into things like fighter planes and Panzerfausts) by sacrificing the lives of innocents by giving them to the Nazis instead of taking them in ourselves or hushing them to neutral Sweden. Damn them! Don't those Hebrews have any sense of decency?

[Vic Vega]

Either what Serah Beizer is saying is accurate or it is not. It certainly appears accurate to me.

Moon1969's anti-semitism prevents him from reading the interview objectively. As a matter of fact, I doubt he read it at all. There is certainly no indication is his posts that he has. He should either A, submit arguments to counter what Ms. Beizer wrote or B, he should go away. Since he almost certainly can't refute what is in the interview, my hope is for option B.

[Darth Rotor]

Vic:

Let us assume Ms. Beizer is a Jew. Let us assume she is telling a lie or a set of lies about Finland.

Moon's "Jews lie about Finland" is still false. If he wishes to, given the above, state that "A Jew lies about Finland" me might be technically correct, his general sentiments not bearing on that statement at all.

However, we don't get that kind of clarity from moon. Maybe it is due to the length of fishing line he drops over the aft end of the boat as he slowly motors along, in the lake, trying to catch fish ;) without using red font.
tips hat to cavemonster

DR

[calebprime]

AAH, please.

yeah, that's better.

[Vic Vega]

Vic:

Let us assume Ms. Beizer is a Jew. Let us assume she is telling a lie or a set of lies about Finland.

Moon's "Jews lie about Finland" is still false. If he wishes to, given the above, state that "A Jew lies about Finland" me might be technically correct, his general sentiments not bearing on that statement at all.

However, we don't get that kind of clarity from moon. Maybe it is due to the length of fishing line he drops over the aft end of the boat as he slowly motors along, in the lake, trying to catch fish ;) without using red font.
tips hat to cavemonster

DR

True enough.

I guess that it is too much to ask that he actually refute some of the points made in the interview....

Scratch that. I KNOW it's too much to ask. If he tried to do that he might actually discover that what she is saying is correct. That wouldn't do, especially when it's easier just to call them lies and then disappear.

[a_unique_person]

I know several Jews, and not one of them has ever mentioned Finland to me. Maybe Iceland, but never Finland.

[firecoins]

I am Jewish.

Finland is located in the Caribbean.

There I lied about Findland. Happy?

[Thunder]

Who cares about Finland.

[SimonD]

All together now....
Monty Python Finland Lyrics:
Chorus: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
It's the country for me.
Verse: You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan.
Quite a long way from Ca
iro,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.
Chorus: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
[ Find more Lyrics at www.mp3lyrics.org/9ThS (http://www.mp3lyrics.org/9ThS) ]
Finland has it all.
Verse: You're so sadly neglected,
And o
ften ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.
Chorus: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.

Repeat: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
Finland has it all.

Fade: Finland has it all...

[Kotatsu]

All together now....
[ Find more Lyrics at www.mp3lyrics.org/9ThS (http://www.mp3lyrics.org/9ThS) ]

In the original, I think this part was spelled with these: ⁅ ⁆, rather than the parenthesis in your version.

[calebprime]

I know several Jews, and not one of them has ever mentioned Finland to me. Maybe Iceland, but never Finland.

:D I'm going to ask some of my neighbors.

and now for YouTube!

Happy Fun Wacky Break--as I think the catholic-school survivor* said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgTyVkpJY3g

*Harry Keogh-sp?

[JimBenArm]

A Jew did lie to me about Finland. There aren't any fins on it anywhere. Damned Jews! Can't count on them to tell the truth about anything!

[blobru]

All together now....
Monty Python Finland Lyrics:
Chorus: Finland, Finland, Finland.
The country where I want to be, ...


How about some new lyrics just for this thread! :FINLAND: :dig: :ISRAEL:

(respectfully dedicated to timhau and all fans of the powder blue & white and what the hell is that yellow thing with the sword on the crest anyway? SUOMI)

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where Jews quite want to be
Lighting up the Menorah
Observing Hannukah
Finland, Finland, Finland
Finland's no shiksa

Fought against the Red Army
With bullets and skis
"Let's all hide in the bushes
and try not to sneeze."

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where Jews quite want to be
Playing hockey with dreydls
Plotzing for the face-off
Finland, Finland, Finland
Finland mazel tov

Let's let bygones be bygones -- feh!
Karelia, Holocaust -- everyone!
Be more like Rabbi Ruutu
And less like Jack Frost

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where Jews quite want to be
Suomi are such mensches
And I'm not just patschkieing
Finland, Finland, Finland
It's good... am I lying?
It's good... am I lying? It's good... am I lying?
What, you think I should lie about something like this? Something so important, important to all Jews since the time of Pharaoh and the pyramids and slavery what with the whipping and dragging and plagues and Red Sea parting and all that farblondzhet meshugass, as Finland!? Gloib mir, kob fachadick...

[timhau]

How about some new lyrics just for this thread! :FINLAND: :dig: :ISRAEL:

(respectfully dedicated to timhau and all fans of the powder blue & white and what the hell is that yellow thing with the sword on the crest anyway? SUOMI)

Why, thank you. :blush:

Oh, and that 'yellow thing' is a lion. Of course. When you think of Russia, you think of bears, when you think of Alaska, you think of caribou, when you think of Australia, you think of kangaroos, and when you think of Finland, you think of lions. Naturally.

[TX50]

Reporter: "Did it cause you any personal problems, shooting Russians like that?"

WW2 Finnish sniper: "Well yes, it did. The main problem I had was that
they tended to run in zig-zags and duck behind cover"

[blobru]

... Oh, and that 'yellow thing' is a lion. Of course. When you think of Russia, you think of bears, when you think of Alaska, you think of caribou, when you think of Australia, you think of kangaroos, and when you think of Finland, you think of lions. Naturally.


Yep. Lions... Jews... and the finest hobbit tonsil chili this side of Copenhagen. That's Finland.

[Subduction Zone]

Finland screwed up big time in WWII, but it was not so much that they were pro-Germany but rather it was that they were anti-Russia. Russia is on their eastrn border and they have had a long history of disputes and occasional war with them. Jews are just a little bit sensitive of anything that smacks of anti semitism during this time period (its funny how people react when someone tries to exterminate you and ends up killing 6 million of your people). Finland handed over 3,000 Russian prisoners of war to Germany. In the mix were about 70 Jews. Finland was not particularly anti semitic or pro semitic, they were anit Russian and they were just handing off prisoners of war to an ally. The article pointed out that these pointed out that these prisoners were carpenters etc etc and not political in anyway. But they were in the Russian army, even though they were conscripted into it, and were therefore prisoners of war, not political prisoners. Finland did protect its own Jewish population, but they did hand over 8 political refugees. I think that this latest discovery is much ado about nothing. An overreaction by a Jewish group that sees another affront against them when none was intended. The OP's complaint (and obvious anti semitism) is an even worse overreaction. This is definitely a case where time will heal this wound. I am sure that Finland's act of not treating Jewish prisoners of war any different from non Jewish ones will allow this to blow over with time. I am part Finnish by descent (heck I can even pronounce the word "sauna" correctly) and have relatives that are all Finn. It is a sad fact that Finland was on the wrong side in the war, they did treat their own Jewish population right, they did turn over a group of eight that they shouldn't have.

[Ordover]

Oh, I think Finland did a terrible job of participating in the Holocost. They protected all their Jewish citizens - that's a really bad job of trying to wipe them out.

One should remember that the United States turned away shiploads of Jewish refugees in the years before we entered the WW II.

[Vic Vega]

Oh, I think Finland did a terrible job of participating in the Holocost. They protected all their Jewish citizens - that's a really bad job of trying to wipe them out.

You're thinking of Denmark.


One should remember that the United States turned away shiploads of Jewish refugees in the years before we entered the WW II.

We remember. Our history classes and textbooks don't gloss over this, nor to they gloss over the treatment of the indigenous population or slavery or anything of the sort.

[timhau]

It is a sad fact that Finland was on the wrong side in the war

Given where we're located, I'm not sure there was a 'right' side available if we had to participate. And Stalin made that decision for us.

[timhau]

Oh, I think Finland did a terrible job of participating in the Holocost. They protected all their Jewish citizens - that's a really bad job of trying to wipe them out.

You're thinking of Denmark.


No, he is correct. Danish authorities rescued the majority of their Jewish citizens by shipping them away to safety when the occupying Nazis wanted to 'relocate' them in 1943. Finland was never occupied, so the local Jewish population was never under the same kind of threat.

[CFLarsen]

It was not the Danish authorities who rescued over 90% of all Danish Jews. At the time when the deportation of the Danish Jews were about to begin, the Danish government had already stepped down, and a group of department chiefs together with a secret group of 13 (not the Majestic 12!) politicians issued decrees when it was absolutely necessary.

The rescue mission was primarily due to an effort by the underground resistance movement, which in itself was made up by many independent groups, consisting of people from all layers of society. Until they could be shipped over, many Jews were kept hidden by people who were not in the resistance.

About 7000 Danish jews were rescued, while less than 500 was captured. None were sent to the gas chambers, but to Theresienstadt, where about 50 of them died.

[The Atheist]

Hasn't the blindingly obvious been missed here?

There was no Holocaust. That's plain from the single tag for the thread - holohoax - which tends to make me think the OP writer doesn't believe the Holocaust happened.

That being the case, transporting Jews to the Nazis is nothing to be ashamed of anyway. The Nazis treated Jewish prisoners well - I've seen the size of the shower rooms they used.

[ddt]

About 7000 Danish jews were rescued, while less than 500 was captured. None were sent to the gas chambers, but to Theresienstadt, where about 50 of them died.

But the fact that those Jews who were captured were sent to Theresienstadt and not to Auschwitz, and were visited there by the Danish Red Cross, was due to pressure from the Danish government.

[timhau]

It was not the Danish authorities who rescued over 90% of all Danish Jews.

OMG! A Finn lied about Jews! Someone, start a thread!

[CFLarsen]

By the time the ca. 500 Danish Jews were sent to Theresienstadt, there was no Danish government. Denmark was being "governed" by civil servants who made decisions on their own, with tacit permission from the Majestic 13.


I'm going to copyright that one. "The Majestic 13"....

[Vic Vega]

Finland was never occupied, so the local Jewish population was never under the same kind of threat.

That isn't exactly the same as protecting them, is it?

[timhau]

That isn't exactly the same as protecting them, is it?

Not in the same sense, that's true. However, if my memory serves, the Finnish government was under some (mild) pressure from the Germans over Finnish Jews, and some local hooligans even hijacked some members of the Helsinki Jewish congregation with the intent of shipping them to Germany (to certain death). The Finnish government didn't budge (and the Germans didn't push the issue); the hijacked folks were saved because the Helsinki police commissioner interfered personally before the ship could sail into the night.