The ADL-JREF Conspiracy!!

[Thunder]

So, according to my dear friend Tin Foil Timothy, the Anti-Defamation League receives $52 (:D) million a year in donations, and may have indeed hired spies and agents to become JREF members. Their mission?

To seek out and destroy anti-Semites. And I am possibly one of them.

God...do I wish this was true. I could use a few more bucks. Christmas is coming.

[Dave Rogers]

So, according to my dear friend Tin Foil Timothy, the Anti-Defamation League receives $365 million a year in donations,

$1,000,000/week = $365,000,000/yr?

I thought I was the only one who made mistakes like that.

Dave

[Drudgewire]

To seek out and destroy anti-Semites. And I am possibly one of them.

God...do I wish this was true. I could use a few more bucks. Christmas is coming.


CHRISTMAS??

You're fired.

-Drudgewire
ADL Human Resources Run-of-the-mill JREFer

[JoeyDonuts]

No dreidel for you, meshugger.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

HAHA!!

Parky taking my jocular assertions seriously. :D :D :D :D

You'd better phone the ADL office Parky and tell them you've been busted. No doubt you'll get fired.

[1337m4n]

Tin Foil Timothy has the most bizarre obsession with the ADL. He spams every thread, with no concern for being off-topic, with "the ADL this; the ADL that, blah blah blah the ADL are bad evil meanies who eat babies". Even when I have him on Ignore I see anti-ADL spew in others' quote boxes.

It is always wildly off-topic. The thread could be about people's favorite kinds of cheese and he will still end his posts with "...and I hate the ADL".

Yes, TFT, we get it; you don't like the ADL. Why don't you do yourself a favor and start your own forum and set up a filter that automatically changes anything anyone says to "the ADL sucks". We get it, you don't like the ADL; we don't care. At least, we wouldn't care were it not so annoying. And not even the "CIT" kind of annoying--more like the "mosquito" kind of annoying; the kind that makes me want to take a flyswatter to the computer screen.

[Slayhamlet]

HAHA!!

Parky taking my jocular assertions seriously. :D :D :D :D

You'd better phone the ADL office Parky and tell them you've been busted. No doubt you'll get fired.

They're not jocular. They're obsessive and creepy.

[Thunder]

Yes. The obsession with the ADL smacks of....wait...I can't say it. =)

[gtc]

I believe the organisation that funds us is called GIYUS. Obviously the only reason that we would be disagreeing with people who can see the truth about the Jews/Israelis/ADL/Zionists/little green space reptiles is because we are Jews (or Israelis which is, obviously, the same thing). And if we aren't Jews we may be crypto-Jews (the worst kind of Jews) or Co-Intel Pro. And if we aren't any of those then we must be being paid by the Jews.

The other claim I love is that calling someone a zionazi isn't an insult because zionazi is just short for Zionist Ashkenazi.

[Thunder]

lolololol!!!!!

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Tin Foil Timothy has the most bizarre obsession with the ADL. He spams every thread, with no concern for being off-topic, with "the ADL this; the ADL that, blah blah blah the ADL are bad evil meanies who eat babies". Even when I have him on Ignore I see anti-ADL spew in others' quote boxes.

Oh diddums.

Now that's just a silly argument isn't it?



It is always wildly off-topic. The thread could be about people's favorite kinds of cheese and he will still end his posts with "...and I hate the ADL".

That's simply lies. My references to the ADL are always on topic. They are valid commentary against the seemingly common antics of throwing about accusations of racism regarding people's political criticisms against Zionist Movement. The ADL are a well known organization that indulges in this kind of political suppresion.

I've never said I hate the ADL,so please stop putting words in my mouth. Not that asking politely will stop you, as your history dictates otherwise



Yes, TFT, we get it; you don't like the ADL. Why don't you do yourself a favor and start your own forum and set up a filter that automatically changes anything anyone says to "the ADL sucks". We get it, you don't like the ADL; we don't care. At least, we wouldn't care were it not so annoying. And not even the "CIT" kind of annoying--more like the "mosquito" kind of annoying; the kind that makes me want to take a flyswatter to the computer screen.

Oh diddums. <picks up toys and puts them back in 1337m4n's baby carriage>.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

They're not jocular. They're obsessive and creepy.

No they are jocular.

You don't get it do you.

Parky and gtc would never qualify to be able to work for the ADL. The ADL's agenda has been largely successful. They have standards ;)

Lighten up dude :)

[Thunder]

Oh diddums.

Now that's just a silly argument isn't it?




That's simply lies. My references to the ADL are always on topic. They are valid commentary against the seemingly common antics of throwing about accusations of racism regarding people's political criticisms against Zionist Movement. The ADL are a well known organization that indulges in this kind of political suppresion.

I've never said I hate the ADL,so please stop putting words in my mouth. Not that asking politely will stop you, as your history dictates otherwise




Oh diddums. <picks up toys and puts them back in 1337m4n's baby carriage>.

are you suggesting that NONE of the people or groups that the ADL labels as "anti-Semitic"...are actually anti-Semitic?

ALL of the ADL's targets are innocent victims of a viceous campaign of false-character assassination?

[gtc]

I actually suspected that TFT believed this CT three weeks ago:

Of course they aren't. People here are fanatical forum cyber-warriors. They obviously love to wade in with pitch forks and torches whenever they get a chance.

Fanatical forum cyber-warriors? Do you think GIYUS pays us to pick on people like you?

I'd be more proud if it wasn't just a hunch and if I didn't still suspect that TFT may just be yanking our chains.

[Thunder]

There is no doubt that he does have his suspicions about ADL involvement in this forum.

[Trojan_Jockey]

Tin Foil Timothy has the most bizarre obsession with the ADL. He spams every thread, with no concern for being off-topic, with "the ADL this; the ADL that, blah blah blah the ADL are bad evil meanies who eat babies". Even when I have him on Ignore I see anti-ADL spew in others' quote boxes.

It is always wildly off-topic. The thread could be about people's favorite kinds of cheese and he will still end his posts with "...and I hate the ADL".

Yes, TFT, we get it; you don't like the ADL. Why don't you do yourself a favor and start your own forum and set up a filter that automatically changes anything anyone says to "the ADL sucks". We get it, you don't like the ADL; we don't care. At least, we wouldn't care were it not so annoying. And not even the "CIT" kind of annoying--more like the "mosquito" kind of annoying; the kind that makes me want to take a flyswatter to the computer screen.

Oh no, don't dare to suggest that. He would never do such a thing, and any forum that appears to be run by TFT and obsessed with Israel is entirely coincidental.

http://www.smeggys.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=114d39b53fe6bd7d9bbb2222646e636c

That is why TFT is NOT and NEVER has been known as Smeggypants.

End of story.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

are you suggesting that NONE of the people or groups that the ADL labels as "anti-Semitic"...are actually anti-Semitic?

ALL of the ADL's targets are innocent victims of a viceous campaign of false-character assassination?

no.

Are you suggesting they are?

[Thunder]

No. Most of the people the ADL accuses of anti-Semitism, are clearly Jew-haters. Once in a while, the ADL does go overboard and accused non-Jew hating anti-Zionists, of being anti-Jewish. They should be corrected when they do this.

But over all, the ADL does a decent job exposing hate groups and hateful people.

I don't donate to them, however, cause I think they cry wolf a wee too much. I would prefer they pick their battles with a little more discrimination for the TRUE bad guys..who pose a REAL threat to life, limb, and democracy.

[gtc]

I don't donate to them,

...because they pay you!

Proof! Proof for all to see!



Seriously, it was a good post.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

No. Most of the people the ADL accuses of anti-Semitism, are clearly Jew-haters. Once in a while, the ADL does go overboard and accused non-Jew hating anti-Zionists, of being anti-Jewish. They should be corrected when they do this.

But over all, the ADL does a decent job exposing hate groups and hateful people.

I don't donate to them, however, cause I think they cry wolf a wee too much. I would prefer they pick their battles with a little more discrimination for the TRUE bad guys..who pose a REAL threat to life, limb, and democracy.

That's a vibe that should be conducted more in this forum.

Still, at least you've kinda concurred as to why I joke about some of you people being the ADL police.

[Thunder]

No. I don't concur. Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, other conspiracy theory cult leaders, and some folks on this forum, do either espouse anti-Semitism, or associate themselves with people and organizations that do.

[fullflavormenthol]

I believe the organisation that funds us is called GIYUS. Obviously the only reason that we would be disagreeing with people who can see the truth about the Jews/Israelis/ADL/Zionists/little green space reptiles is because we are Jews (or Israelis which is, obviously, the same thing). And if we aren't Jews we may be crypto-Jews (the worst kind of Jews) or Co-Intel Pro. And if we aren't any of those then we must be being paid by the Jews.

I'm not being paid by the ADL, and I am not Jewish. I think it is pretty obvious that I am actually a 12 foot tall green Reptilian from planet Nibiru.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

No. I don't concur. Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, other conspiracy theory cult leaders, and some folks on this forum, do either espouse anti-Semitism, or associate themselves with people and organizations that do.

If an anti-semite criticize Zionism and I criticize Zionism that doesn't make me an anti-semite.

Hell, I might even share the same favorite flavor of Ben & Jerry's with an Anti-semite. Does that make me an Anti-semite? To some in this forum it would do.

btw .. No one as yet has provided any evidence that Alex Jones hates Jews. I successfully called out the liars on that one weeks ago.

[Foolmewunz]

If an anti-semite criticize Zionism and I criticize Zionism that doesn't make me an anti-semite.

Hell, I might even share the same favorite flavor of Ben & Jerry's with an Anti-semite. Does that make me an Anti-semite? To some in this forum it would do.

btw .. No one as yet has provided any evidence that Alex Jones hates Jews. I successfully called out the liars on that one weeks ago.

For the fiftieth time, you successfully called out the people whose conclusions you disagreed with. You unsuccessfully called them "liars", and you only make yourself foolish by continuing to repeat that phrase.

Better minds than yours have read Jones' statements and the kind of bilge he allows on his site and have concluded, as we've discussed several times before, that he's either Anti-Semitic Lite or just a complete suck up to the people who are, and he doesn't want to alienate them.

If you don't agree, you don't agree. But anyone who doesn't agree with Tin Foil Timothy is not, by definition, a liar.

[Hokulele]

Better minds than yours have read Jones' statements and the kind of bilge he allows on his site and have concluded, as we've discussed several times before, that he's either Anti-Semitic Lite or just a complete suck up to the people who are, and he doesn't want to alienate them.


Or both!

[Thunder]

If an anti-semite criticize Zionism and I criticize Zionism that doesn't make me an anti-semite.

Hell, I might even share the same favorite flavor of Ben & Jerry's with an Anti-semite. Does that make me an Anti-semite? To some in this forum it would do.

btw .. No one as yet has provided any evidence that Alex Jones hates Jews. I successfully called out the liars on that one weeks ago.

If you repost articles that are anti-Semitic, which Alex Jones has done a few times, and Jeff Rense has done about a hundred times, you are giving the content of that article a thumbs up and basically saying:

"I don't wanna write anti-Semitic articles, but if you do, I will repost them".

does that make one an anti-Semite? it kinda does.

I'm sorry you disagree. But you are wrong. Association does sometimes mean guilt.

If someone emails me an utterly racist joke, and I forward that joke to other people, I am basically condoning that racist joke as being okee dokee.

If I own a newspaper, and the KKK sends me an article saying black people are lazy, stinky, and stupid, and I repost that article, I am as as bad as the original authors.

[Rob Lister]

So, according to my dear friend Tin Foil Timothy, the Anti-Defamation League receives $52 (:D) million a year in donations, and may have indeed hired spies and agents to become JREF members. Their mission?

To seek out and destroy anti-Semites. And I am possibly one of them.

God...do I wish this was true. I could use a few more bucks. Christmas is coming.

Just for fun I looked up the ADL's IRS-990 form. In 2006 they only reported a little of 11 million in donations/etc. Must be tax evaders too!

[sleeplessdwarf]

Originally Posted by Tin Foil Timothy View Post
If an anti-semite criticize Zionism and I criticize Zionism that doesn't make me an anti-semite.

Hell, I might even share the same favorite flavor of Ben & Jerry's with an Anti-semite. Does that make me an Anti-semite? To some in this forum it would do.

btw .. No one as yet has provided any evidence that Alex Jones hates Jews. I successfully called out the liars on that one weeks ago.


You can continue to peddle this nonsense forever if you wish, but plenty of us have listened to AJ's radio show in the past and it does not take long to figure out he is racist. He may mask his hate for mexicans by using the word La Raza before he trashes a few mexicans but it does not cover the facts. During one show I decided to watch his show while listening, and during that hour he received a call from a black caller. The poor guy was trying to share some info on a subject that AJ was discussing, and all Alex could do was roll his eyes and act like 5 year old. (maybe the pot he was smoking made him forget he was on video) Shortly after a white caller said almost the exact same thing and there were no colorful reactions by Alex. Has he ever said I hate anyone is not white? Probably not, but he does not have to for most to understand he does.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

For the fiftieth time, you successfully called out the people whose conclusions you disagreed with. You unsuccessfully called them "liars", and you only make yourself foolish by continuing to repeat that phrase.

If you don't agree, you don't agree. But anyone who doesn't agree with Tin Foil Timothy is not, by definition, a liar.

WTF are you talking about?

I think you're not reading the posts. I'm not calling anyone who disagrees with me a liar.

I'm calling people liars for lying. Specifically people who things like ...

TFT Said "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

when in fact I'd said no such thing, and instead said ...

"yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy"

These lies are a deliberate attempt to discredit me in the forum. I have proved there lies by showing what I did says, and what they had fabricated.

What you have done above Foolmewunz is make yourself look foolish by commenting on something yo have either not read or deliberately misrepresented.



Better minds than yours have read Jones' statements and the kind of bilge he allows on his site and have concluded, as we've discussed several times before, that he's either Anti-Semitic Lite or just a complete suck up to the people who are, and he doesn't want to alienate them.

Childish personal attacks huh? And you're are just so superior aren't you? Not. :rolleyes:

Funny that these 'better minds' claimed there were tons of links to Alex Jones' racism at infowars and when challenged all they could produce was ONE ARTICLE where the phrase 'Jewish Arrogance' was used. Not a pleasant phrase but hardly proof that the author hates Jews.

You're post was just so easy to shoot down. Even by someone like me with a not so better mind eh? ;)

[Tin Foil Timothy]

You can continue to peddle this nonsense forever if you wish, but plenty of us have listened to AJ's radio show in the past and it does not take long to figure out he is racist.

But as always when asked for the evidence it isn't forthcoming. There's a multipage thread about it in this sub-forum. Alex Jones may be arrogant and obnoxious but if you label someone racist without evidence then that's YOUR problem not his.

[Tailgater]

What part of the "Tin Foil" didn't you guys understand when engaging him?

[Skeptic]

To seek out and destroy anti-Semites. And I am possibly one of them. God...do I wish this was true. I could use a few more bucks.

That's my problem with the Jewish world control conspiracy, too.

The Jews control all the money, have all the power, and make all the decisions, but *I* never seem to get a piece of the action.

What's the big hold-up? What have I ever done to get on the Jewish New World Order's, er, excrement scroll?

[sleeplessdwarf]

But as always when asked for the evidence it isn't forthcoming. There's a multipage thread about it in this sub-forum. Alex Jones may be arrogant and obnoxious but if you label someone racist without evidence then that's YOUR problem not his.

There used to be a whole world outside of internet forums where having a "link" to every detail was not needed. We are not in a trial so unless I am just lying for the sake of being a liar, hearing the words out of the man's mouth is enough for me. If you badmouth me based on my race, to my face, I can't run here with a "link" to prove to JREF that you are a racist. I will know for myself though that you are so I guess it is my fault for wasting the time expressing this opinion on a forum in the first place. As for links to AJ, I paid his 5$ subscription fee once. This gave me the ability to see some of his radio shows. Perhaps if I wanted to waste 5$ more I would have access to the links you ask for, but I would rather just keep my opinion to myself. So I won't be calling AJ the racist piece of scum he is anymore. I am pretty sure I don't need to in order to convince people he is a lying, money hungry, fear mongering, hypocritical tool. ;)

[Foolmewunz]

WTF are you talking about?

I think you're not reading the posts. I'm not calling anyone who disagrees with me a liar.

I'm calling people liars for lying. Specifically people who things like ...

TFT Said "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"

when in fact I'd said no such thing, and instead said ...

"yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy"

These lies are a deliberate attempt to discredit me in the forum. I have proved there lies by showing what I did says, and what they had fabricated.

What you have done above Foolmewunz is make yourself look foolish by commenting on something yo have either not read or deliberately misrepresented.




Childish personal attacks huh? And you're are just so superior aren't you? Not. :rolleyes:

Funny that these 'better minds' claimed there were tons of links to Alex Jones' racism at infowars and when challenged all they could produce was ONE ARTICLE where the phrase 'Jewish Arrogance' was used. Not a pleasant phrase but hardly proof that the author hates Jews.

You're post was just so easy to shoot down. Even by someone like me with a not so better mind eh? ;)

Tim, Tim, Tim,

Let me try to do this without using any big ol' words that might confuse you. You have not proved that anyone is a liar, get it?

You have refused to accept what reasonable people, numerous reasonable people, have showed you to be evidence of his racism.

Your narrow Clarence Thomas interpretation of a word is not the definition of the word. You will only accept one proof of racism - and that is if the person stands up on a soap box and shouts out, "Hey, I'm a racist and I hate Jews, Mexicans, and N-s". That is not the way of the world.

Again, look at Clippy. Please don't try to tell educated and experienced people that Clippy is not a racist. He has ninety-nine out of a hundred racists indicators in his short history here. You're waiting for him to declare his racism outright - that hundredth element. We are willing to accept the preponderance of evidence.

As we are with Jones. The fact that you DO NOT ACCEPT the evidence we've provided does not make the evidence incorrect except in a world with a population of one: TFT World.

I just have this thing about the word liar. I dislike it intensely; part of my cultural upbringing... but in my neck of the woods (well, several big cities) an accusation of lying generally got you a fist to the mouth. If you wish to continue on your merry defend-to-the-death-your-right-to-say-it crusade, I'm fine with that. But stop calling people liars.

A: I like chocolate.
B: I think vanilla is better.
A: Liar!

Get over yourself, Tim. "A deliberate attempt to discredit me in the forum".... Your positions discredit you. Posting our opinions on the evidence that Alex Jones is a bigot is more directed towards, well, proving that Alex Jones is a bigot. Discrediting you? My, my, my.... we're important over in Tinfoilistan, aren't we?

Heck if we wanted to discredit you we'd just keep repeating that you wouldn't even believe that MaGZ was a holocause denier until he did as I mentioned above - and stood up and repeated it for you and all others to see.

(But I wouldn't do that, it'd be unkind to repeatedly mention that you are so blind in your pursuit of your cause that you did not recognize our registered anti-semite until he bit you in your ass.)

Oh, and did I mention to everyone that TFT is so blinded by his cause that he defended MaGZ as not necessarily a bigot? Yeah, he did!

(See how that would be so easy. And so unfair, so of course I wouldn't do it.)

[Tin Foil Timothy]

You have not proved that anyone is a liar, get it?
No you get it dude. I have proved people to be liars.

You're not even reading the posts. I'm calling certain people liars for lying, not for having a different opinion. You obviously don't even know why I'm calling them liars. You should avoid poking your nose into things you obviously no nothing about. You're just making yourself look foolish gain.


But stop calling people liars.

hahaha!! - Are you ordering me around? Who or what do you think you are? Something special?

Get over yourself.

[fullflavormenthol]

Here is my problem. It has gotten to the point in which someone can come onto this forum and say..."Well the Jews control all the money, and they are the reason for the war on terror; and the holocaust was organized by Jews to kill off the unpure Jews."...and none of us can say anything bad about it without being accused of "dropping the anti-semite card". Look some statements are anti-semitic, and it is okay to say they are.

Does anyone disagree?

[sleeplessdwarf]

I have always managed to point out people's wrong doing without classifying them. I firmly believe plenty of Jews are bad but not because they are Jews. All peoples have bad in them. It is like the when your friend or mom wants to tell you a story. Whether it is good or bad, if it involves a person of another race, they almost always say "this black guy was walking in the store" or "this little mexican woman was talking on a payphone". Can you not tell the story by just saying this guy, or this woman? Why Do I need to know the race if it is not really a factor in the story? If a rich guy in russia screws over a bunch of people, does it mater if he is jew or russian? He still did the deed, and most of the time what race they were has no importance. This is my point, but sadly AJ will ALWAYS point out the race of the persons he is trashing if they are other than white.

[Thunder]

But as always when asked for the evidence it isn't forthcoming. There's a multipage thread about it in this sub-forum. Alex Jones may be arrogant and obnoxious but if you label someone racist without evidence then that's YOUR problem not his.

You do agree, that if a newspaper or a website, reprints a racist article, not as an editorial or opinion piece, but as a NEWS piece, and does not specifically say that the views expressed by this article do no neccessarily express the views of the newspaper, then the newspaper is in effect condoning the views of the article..and can therefore be considered to be a racist newspaper?

I sure think so.

If I reposted a racist article here on JREF, anyone can feel free to call me a racist. And they would be correct to do so.

While it is..possible..that Alex Jones is not an outright Jew-hater, Jeff Rense sure is. His site has posted and reposted at least 100 anti-Semitic articles. Their subject matter ranges from saying the Holocaust was a myth, there is a Jewish conspiracy to get rich by using kosher-food certification costs, and that the Jews caused the USSR.

Yes Tim, it is true that some folks do indeed cry anti-Semitism way too much. This does take attention way from the real cases of true Jew-hatred. But there are also, some folks out there, who are quick to disregard any/all accusations of anti-Semitism. The truth, is somewhere in the middle.

[fullflavormenthol]

I have always managed to point out people's wrong doing without classifying them. I firmly believe plenty of Jews are bad but not because they are Jews. All peoples have bad in them. It is like the when your friend or mom wants to tell you a story. Whether it is good or bad, if it involves a person of another race, they almost always say "this black guy was walking in the store" or "this little mexican woman was talking on a payphone". Can you not tell the story by just saying this guy, or this woman? Why Do I need to know the race if it is not really a factor in the story? If a rich guy in russia screws over a bunch of people, does it mater if he is jew or russian? He still did the deed, and most of the time what race they were has no importance. This is my point, but sadly AJ will ALWAYS point out the race of the persons he is trashing if they are other than white.
Exactly. If someone kills a child, rapes a woman or robs a bank what the heck does it matter what race or religion the :rule10 is?

[Thunder]

I disagree. Beating someone up, just because they are black, Jewish, Hispanic, or White, makes the assault twice as bad, in my opinion. Much of the world agrees.

[sleeplessdwarf]

I have always managed to point out people's wrong doing without classifying them. I firmly believe plenty of Jews are bad but not because they are Jews. All peoples have bad in them. It is like the when your friend or mom wants to tell you a story. Whether it is good or bad, if it involves a person of another race, they almost always say "this black guy was walking in the store" or "this little mexican woman was talking on a payphone". Can you not tell the story by just saying this guy, or this woman? Why Do I need to know the race if it is not really a factor in the story? If a rich guy in russia screws over a bunch of people, does it mater if he is jew or russian? He still did the deed, and most of the time what race they were has no importance. This is my point, but sadly AJ will ALWAYS point out the race of the persons he is trashing if they are other than white.

[Thunder]

If an anti-semite criticize Zionism and I criticize Zionism that doesn't make me an anti-semite.

Hell, I might even share the same favorite flavor of Ben & Jerry's with an Anti-semite. Does that make me an Anti-semite? To some in this forum it would do.

btw .. No one as yet has provided any evidence that Alex Jones hates Jews. I successfully called out the liars on that one weeks ago.

An anti-Zionist who does not hate Jews, would not be reposting anti-Zionist articles that include anti-Semitic remarks. It just doesn't work that way.

There is only one kind of person that posts or reposts anti-Semitic articles..and that is an anti-Semite.

[JoeyDonuts]

Uhhh...if the Zionist agenda is so powerful and over-arching as to be manipulating world events, how come the Israelis are still battling over the West Bank, Golani Heights, etc. etc...

They should have annexed the entire Eastern Mediterranean by now!

Unless of course, a secret cabal capable of pulling of 9/11 can't pull it off in Syria. Or Lebanon. Or any other country that is actively firing rockets into Israeli territory.

...yawn...

[Skeptic]

(Sigh...)

For what must be the millionth time: antizionism is not necessarily antisemitism. For instance, someone who says "perhaps it would have been better had Israel never existed" is not necessary antisemitic. (Of course this depends on what one means by "anti-zionism": "Israel is doing X wrong" -- not necessarily antisemitic (or even antizionist, actually); "The evil Jewish state of Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth" -- obviously antisemitic. But I digress.)

However, most (not all) so-called "anti-zionists" are simply antisemites, in the same sense so-called "Intelligent Design theorists" are simply biblical creationists. To paraphrase what (I think) Michael Shermer said about ID, "anti-Zionism" is, more often than not, "anti-semitism in a cheap tuxedo".

These "anti-Zionists" take the same old, same old "Jews control the world!" conspiracy theories, replace "Jew" with "Zionist", and claim their new-and-improved "Zionists / Mossad / AIPAC / Israel control the world!" conspiracy theory has nothing whatever to do with antisemitism. This is about as convincing as the IDiots' claim that replacing "The Lord God" with "An Intelligent Designer" makes their view "scientific" and one that has nothing at all to do with religion.

I'll bet 99% of those who go on and on about the "Zionist" (that is, Jewish) world-controlling conspiracy cannot name two of the actual founders of Zionism without looking it up -- which shows how much interest they have in actual Zionism, as opposed to merely replacing "Jewish" with "Zionist" and thinking they're home free with their Jew-hatered.

[Dave Rogers]

Here is my problem. It has gotten to the point in which someone can come onto this forum and say..."Well the Jews control all the money, and they are the reason for the war on terror; and the holocaust was organized by Jews to kill off the unpure Jews."...and none of us can say anything bad about it without being accused of "dropping the anti-semite card".

Actually, that doesn't matter. We can't claim that 9/11 wasn't a false flag attack without being accused of being neocon Bush-loving shills. We can't claim that Oswald acted alone without being accused of denying that conspiracies exist anywhere. We can't express disbelief in God without being accused of treason towards America, even those of us who aren't American. Who cares? Liars will lie about people who call them liars.

The point is that the people accusing us of "dropping the anti-semite card" are simply expressing an opinion themselves, and it's just as valid to question their motives as it is for them to question ours. I'm quite fascinated by the alacrity with which Tin Foil Timothy dons his cape and flies to the defence of the poor oppressed Jew-haters and Nazi apologists on this forum, and I have a strong impression about his personal beliefs from his behaviour. From my remarks about Alex Libman, he has concluded that I'm not a nice person, a belief that doesn't seem to be shared by those who choose not to leap to the defence of anti-Semites. I don't consider TFT's disapproval, therefore, something to be ashamed of; I'm rather pleased by it.

Dave

[Tin Foil Timothy]

"The evil Jewish state of Israel must be wiped off the face of the earth" -- obviously antisemitic. But I digress.)

Ahmedinejad didn't say that btw, but that's for another thread.



However, most (not all) so-called "anti-zionists" are simply antisemites,

I highly disagree. In my experience most Anit-Zionists are not racist in the slightest




These "anti-Zionists" take the same old, same old "Jews control the world!" conspiracy theories, replace "Jew" with "Zionist", and claim their new-and-improved "Zionists / Mossad / AIPAC / Israel control the world!" conspiracy theory has nothing whatever to do with antisemitism. This is about as convincing as the IDiots' claim that replacing "The Lord God" with "An Intelligent Designer" makes their view "scientific" and one that has nothing at all to do with religion.

I'll bet 99% of those who go on and on about the "Zionist" (that is, Jewish) world-controlling conspiracy cannot name two of the actual founders of Zionism without looking it up -- which shows how much interest they have in actual Zionism, as opposed to merely replacing "Jewish" with "Zionist" and thinking they're home free with their Jew-hatered.

You seem to be obsessed about everyone out to get Jews. And you're analogies and reasoning to try and convince us that most Anti-Zionists are racists is complete nonsense.

Most people in this world are not racist, but most people in this world do care about humanity and criticize the Zionist movement on that basis.

You're the one replacing "Zionist" with "Jew" far more than anyone else.

[Thunder]

A

I highly disagree. In my experience most Anit-Zionists are not racist in the slightest
.

In my experience, the majority of anti-Zionists hold some anti-Semitic views. Either about Jewish bankers, or Jewish Communists, or about the Jews rejecting Jesus, or about the Protocols, or about the Rothschilds, or about Jews controlling American foreign policy, etc...

[Thunder]

An anti-Zionist who does not hate Jews, would not be reposting anti-Zionist articles that include anti-Semitic remarks. It just doesn't work that way.

There is only one kind of person that posts or reposts anti-Semitic articles..and that is an anti-Semite.

no response from the peanut gallery?

:D

[Tin Foil Timothy]

In my experience, the majority of anti-Zionists hold some anti-Semitic views. Either about Jewish bankers, or Jewish Communists, or about the Jews rejecting Jesus, or about the Protocols, or about the Rothschilds, or about Jews controlling American foreign policy, etc...

There's nothing anti-semitic about holding the view that groups like AIPAC have a powerful influence over American Politics.

[Thunder]

There's nothing anti-semitic about holding the view that groups like AIPAC have a powerful influence over American Politics.

Well, the problem with believing that AIPAC and other Jewish groups hold too much power over Congress, is that compared to other lobbying interests, Jewish groups donate waaaaay less then all the big ones.

Jewish groups donate maybe in total, around $15 million a year to campaigns.

Corporate, energy, elderly, and other groups, donate in the $50 million dollar range..and more.

So, clearly, its not the money thats doing it. So what is it?

And, can it be proven that Jews hold more sway in Congress then their efforts deserve? Who is to make such a judgement?

[Uncayimmy]

I disagree. Beating someone up, just because they are black, Jewish, Hispanic, or White, makes the assault twice as bad, in my opinion. Much of the world agrees.

In what sense does it make it twice as bad? I never understood that. The person getting assaulted is just as injured no matter the motivation. If the perpetrator hates <whatever> but assaults a <whatever> for some other reason (looked cross-eyed at a spouse), how much worse is that? Is it 50% worse because while he has an objectionable position, that position wasn't the motivating factor.

If you want to consider motivations for an assault when judging how bad they are, then I offer that the assault motivated by boredom is the worst. How twisted is it that you beat up somebody because there's nothing good on cable?

Mankind has always suffered from xenophobia. Mankind has always struck out when they feel powerless. Mankind has always fought out of revenge. Granted, the intellectual part of us can strive to overcome those emotions, but they are real nevertheless, even if unfounded.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Actually, that doesn't matter. We can't claim that 9/11 wasn't a false flag attack without being accused of being neocon Bush-loving shills. We can't claim that Oswald acted alone without being accused of denying that conspiracies exist anywhere. We can't express disbelief in God without being accused of treason towards America, even those of us who aren't American. Who cares? Liars will lie about people who call them liars.

The point is that the people accusing us of "dropping the anti-semite card" are simply expressing an opinion themselves, and it's just as valid to question their motives as it is for them to question ours. I'm quite fascinated by the alacrity with which Tin Foil Timothy dons his cape and flies to the defence of the poor oppressed Jew-haters and Nazi apologists on this forum, and I have a strong impression about his personal beliefs from his behaviour. From my remarks about Alex Libman, he has concluded that I'm not a nice person, a belief that doesn't seem to be shared by those who choose not to leap to the defence of anti-Semites. I don't consider TFT's disapproval, therefore, something to be ashamed of; I'm rather pleased by it.

Dave

I don't defend Anti-Semites. In fact I abhor racism. Real racism that is, not political views dressed up as racism by those wishing to stifle them. And yes I'm very alacritous in defending instances of false accusations of racism.

I believe the victims of real racism are losing out by this political game. Especially when it comes to Anti-Semitism. Every time someone shouts Anti-Semitism you have to check whether it is real racism or simply a political thing.

Dave Rogers, you show no signs of caring about real victims of racism as you are far too obsessed with routing out political views you disagree with and shooting them down with anti-semitic badges.

If you really cared about the victims of racism you would limit your efforts to speaking up for them with your Anti-semitic weapons.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Well, the problem with believing that AIPAC and other Jewish groups hold too much power over Congress, is that compared to other lobbying interests, Jewish groups donate waaaaay less then all the big ones.

Jewish groups donate maybe in total, around $15 million a year to campaigns.

Corporate, energy, elderly, and other groups, donate in the $50 million dollar range..and more.

So, clearly, its not the money thats doing it. So what is it?

And, can it be proven that Jews hold more sway in Congress then their efforts deserve? Who is to make such a judgement?

'Jews' ?? :confused:

AIPAC is a Zionist Organisation. it used to be called the American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs. until it realized that it could gain more support by ditching the Zionist element to the name.

Contrary to the paranoid obsessions of Skeptic, most people who criticize Zionism have nothing against anyone for being Jewish. Many Jews are also against Zionism remember.

[KoihimeNakamura]

That and they changed it to avoid an Eisenhower investigation.

[Skeptic]

Contrary to the paranoid obsessions of Skeptic, most people who criticize Zionism have nothing against anyone for being Jewish.

I would be a bit less "paranoid" about this if my grandfather wasn't kicked out of Germany by mobs shouting, "Jews, go to Palestine, where you belong!" -- and whose grandchildren now form mobs shouting, "Jews, get out of Palestine, where you don't belong!"

It's the same sort of people, and the same Jews-are-evil attitude, only changing the name from "Jew" to "Zionist" and the excuse from the Jews not being to Palestine to the Jews being in Palestine.

But such contradictory views never were a big problem for antisemites. They, for instance, hate the Jews both for being "communists" and for being "plutocratic bankers" at the same time, so it's small change for them to hate the Jews both for not going to Palestine and for going to Palestine in quick succession.
But

[Thunder]

'Jews' ?? :confused:

AIPAC is a Zionist Organisation. it used to be called the American Zionist Committee for Public Affairs. until it realized that it could gain more support by ditching the Zionist element to the name.

Contrary to the paranoid obsessions of Skeptic, most people who criticize Zionism have nothing against anyone for being Jewish. Many Jews are also against Zionism remember.

Actually, in my 32 years of of talking with anti-Zionists, I have indeed met many anti-Zionists who did also hold anti-Jewish views.

Timothy- do you believe that it is anti-Semitic for someone to suggest that the Zionists made up the Holocaust in order to ensure support for the creation of Israel?

[TjW]

There's nothing anti-semitic about holding the view that groups like AIPAC have a powerful influence over American Politics.

Perhaps not. But there is in holding the opinion that this is somehow "wronger" for AIPAC than, say, the AARP.

[Thunder]

Exactly.

Old people lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee.
Gun owners lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee.
Oil industry lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee?
Environmentalists lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee.
Farmers lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee.
Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual groups lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee
Handicapped people lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Okee dokee.

Zionists lobbying Congress with millions of $$ in donations? Bad bad bad!!

And if there lobbying actually pays off, by somehow influencing the actions of Congress??

Traitors!!!

??

[Tin Foil Timothy]

I would be a bit less "paranoid" about this if my grandfather wasn't kicked out of Germany by mobs shouting, "Jews, go to Palestine, where you belong!" -- and whose grandchildren now form mobs shouting, "Jews, get out of Palestine, where you don't belong!" [/qutoe]

So the mobs shouting "Jews, get out of Palestine, where you don't belong!" are teh grandchildren of Nazis are they? You're losing it dude. Big time!



[quote]
It's the same sort of people, and the same Jews-are-evil attitude, only changing the name from "Jew" to "Zionist" and the excuse from the Jews not being to Palestine to the Jews being in Palestine.

But such contradictory views never were a big problem for antisemites. They, for instance, hate the Jews both for being "communists" and for being "plutocratic bankers" at the same time, so it's small change for them to hate the Jews both for not going to Palestine and for going to Palestine in quick succession.
But

Change the record skeptic. "jews = Zionists", "Bankers", yadda yadda yadda. It's yawnville. :rolleyes:



Your paranoid obsession with accusing all those who criticize the Zionist movement for it's behavior towards the Palestinians is not masking your racism towards the Palestinians, which you've so overtly exposed today ...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4298005&postcount=360

Such hypocrisy bleating on about all this Anti-Semitic crap when it's you who are the racist one!!!

[Thunder]

[quote=Skeptic;4298093]I would be a bit less "paranoid" about this if my grandfather wasn't kicked out of Germany by mobs shouting, "Jews, go to Palestine, where you belong!" -- and whose grandchildren now form mobs shouting, "Jews, get out of Palestine, where you don't belong!" [/qutoe]

So the mobs shouting "Jews, get out of Palestine, where you don't belong!" are teh grandchildren of Nazis are they? You're losing it dude. Big time!





Change the record skeptic. "jews = Zionists", "Bankers", yadda yadda yadda. It's yawnville. :rolleyes:



Your paranoid obsession with accusing all those who criticize the Zionist movement for it's behavior towards the Palestinians is not masking your racism towards the Palestinians, which you've so overtly exposed today ...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4298005&postcount=360

Such hypocrisy bleating on about all this Anti-Semitic crap when it's you who are the racist one!!!

Tim- you are aware that some folks do use the term "Zionist" to refer to all the Jews they don't like. From the Rothschilds, to the Communist Jews of the Russian Revolution, to the International Bankers who supposedly killed Lincoln, to the Jews who funded the French and American revolutions.

Ive even heard some folks refer to the Jews who "killed Jesus" as Zionists.

So basically.....Jews you don't like = Zionists.

I hope you don't follow such a concept.

[moon1969]

ADL is nationalistic. ADL supports jewish nationalism. All problems are caused by nationalism because we can"t see that we all are a part of the human race. Still there are some people who talk about the jews but jews are humans just like arabs and jews and arabs and all people of earth are related because of evolution. All people are part of the human race. Still jews have very strong national and religious identity. Religion and nationalism are the problem. Plus the conspiracy theories about the jews are stupid. Lazar Kaganovich was one individual. Lazar Kaganovich was a jew. But Lazar Kaganovich was not part of some jewish conspiracy. Anyway jews are part of the human race just like everybody else. Humans should live in peace and work together.

[Thunder]

Religion and nationalism are the problem. .


Ah, so you won't be talking about Finland anymore then?

You won't say that Finland should have sent its Jews to Nazi Germany again?

Thank God.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Ahmedinejad didn't say that btw, but that's for another thread.

Yes he did.

Show me where Smackdude Ineedadayjob complained that he was mistranslated.

[Thunder]

Yes he did.

Show me where Smackdude Ineedadayjob complained that he was mistranslated.

Yes. I also failed to see that interview where he complained he was being misquoted.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Yes. I also failed to see that interview where he complained he was being misquoted.

there's plenty about it here, including ahmedinejad saying he was mistranslated ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_ma p.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_transl ation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Clarifying_comments _by_Ahmadinejad

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Yes he did.


Errr, no he didn't. Stop swallowing the propaganda.


And before some retard accuses me of being an Ahmedinejad supporter, I think he's an idiot and the Iranian regime is a vile bigoted violent entity.

[Thunder]

there's plenty about it here, including ahmedinejad saying he was mistranslated ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22Wiped_off_the_ma p.22_or_.22Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_transl ation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#Clarifying_comments _by_Ahmadinejad


my friend, if you really don't think Ahmedinajad hates Israel and wants to see it physically destroyed, then you truly are willingly blind.

many folks said about Hitler:"oh..he doesnt mean it. its just politics. he really isnt gonna kill all the jews".

that was 6 million Jews ago.

The Jews have learned our lesson. Its taken 2,000 years, an Inquisition, 3 Crusades, pogroms, and a Holocaust, but we finally learned our lesson.

When someone threatens to wipe us off the map..we believe him.

When someone threatens to kill us all..we believe them.

Don't $%&# with the Jews. You won't like the result.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

When someone threatens to wipe us off the map..we believe him.

What you mean is when the Western Media purposely mistranslates him in order to fuel the propaganda of Iran being a nuclear threat to Israel you believe them

And you say 'us'. I didn't realize you an Israeli. Whereabouts in Israel do you live?


Don't $%&# with the Jews. You won't like the result.

Very aggressive talk there. Any reasonable answer to that racially based statement will be seen as Anti-Semitic so I shall refrain. But you are being racially confrontational there Parky.

[chillzero]

Please remember to keep your posts civil, and on topic. Do not attack the arguer - attack the argument.

[Thunder]

What you mean is when the Western Media purposely mistranslates him in order to fuel the propaganda of Iran being a nuclear threat to Israel you believe them

And you say 'us'. I didn't realize you an Israeli. Whereabouts in Israel do you live?



Very aggressive talk there. Any reasonable answer to that racially based statement will be seen as Anti-Semitic so I shall refrain. But you are being racially confrontational there Parky.


I think after 2,000 years of hell, we reserve the right to be aggresively self-defense minded.

Don't mess with us...we now bite back. The Ghetto Jew is dead.

[JoeyDonuts]

I'm just curious. How many of those 2,000 years of hell did you personally live through?

How many rockets exploded in your neighborhood when you were growing up?

I'm not defending the actions of Ahmedinijad or the Pasdaran or LH or any other group that has actively worked to undermine the state of Israel. But you seem to be claiming a righteous fury that I don't think you're entitled to, at least if you're an American of Jewish ancestry like I suspect.

Look, I'm Irish by ancestry, but I never claimed the fury of an oppressed Ulsterite, because I've never had a protestant kick the crap out of me for being Catholic. I've never lived through all of that violence personally. I can empathize with it, but always at a distance. I don't go around hollering rebel songs and giving English Protestants the stink-eye.

If you're living in Tel Aviv, I apologize but if you're in the U.S. and had a pretty decent childhood you may wanna tone back the rhetoric a little bit. And perhaps get back to the issue of whether or not there is a conspiracy involving the Anti-defamation League and the JREF.

[Thunder]

I'm just curious. How many of those 2,000 years of hell did you personally live through?




32 years.

Ive had to defend myself against anti-Semites since I was about...um..11 years old.

From kids in the stairway calling me "dirty Jew", to kids in the playground threatening to beat me up cause I am a Jew, to my own friend telling me "my brother was right...Jews are cheap", to anti-Semitic statements throughout college and my years of work...all the way up to 3 months ago.

My father was beaten up in the Army because he was a Jew. My mother was accused of not giving money to a filthy homeless guy on the Subway, because she was a Jew. My sister has luckily avoided a lot of this, cause she has very delicate features and doesn't look particularly Jewish.

Life in America has been great..but its no heaven on Earth.

[JoeyDonuts]

32 years.

Ive had to defend myself against anti-Semites since I was about...um..11 years old.

I certainly sympathize, and understand your anger.

However, Elie Wiesel, who endured horrors that make your suffering seem like popping a zit in comparison, doesn't appear to share your vitriol. Or if he does, he simply directs it at God.

Did you grow up right outside a white supremacist compound? You seem to have endured a disproportionate amount of this crap. And please don't think I mean to insult you when I say this, but is it possible that bad things have happened to you in your life, and you just assumed that it was perpetrated on you because you were Jewish?

[Thunder]

I certainly sympathize, and understand your anger.

However, Elie Wiesel, who endured horrors that make your suffering seem like popping a zit in comparison, doesn't appear to share your vitriol. Or if he does, he simply directs it at God.

Did you grow up right outside a white supremacist compound? You seem to have endured a disproportionate amount of this crap. And please don't think I mean to insult you when I say this, but is it possible that bad things have happened to you in your life, and you just assumed that it was perpetrated on you because you were Jewish?

I went to a public school where Jews were a tiny minority. And I live in NYC. Lots of anti-Semitic Irish, Italians, Puerto Ricans, and blacks.

As to why I may seem more angry then Wiesel? I am younger and full of energy. =)

[applecorped]

I Lots of anti-Semitic Irish, Italians, Puerto Ricans, and blacks.




Lots of anti-Semitic people.

[Thunder]

Right. I forgot to mention the Greeks in my high school.

Contrary to popular misunderstanding, native New Yorkers are very aware of their ethnic identities and we do polarize ourselves very often.

I can name all the neighborhoods where the Irish, Greeks, Italians, Polish, Germans, Albanians, Russians, Bukarians, and WASPs live. We are the world...borders and all.