Nostradamus and 2012

[Clairvoyant_Kyle]

I have been seeing advertisements for a show on history channel that is called something like Nostradamus and 2012. Now correct me if I am wrong here but this is the first time I have heard Nostradamus related to the dooms day theory of 2012. So If I am right this mean Victor Baines or some other brain dead lackey is going to try and entangle the meaningless quatrains of Nostradamus with the equally meaningless Mayan’s 2012 doomsday crap. I cannot believe the world is this stupid! So 2013 happens then what? We just forget that that 2012 was going to be the end and look for the next doomsday to believe in. What a joke!

-Kyle

[JcR]

If you add 102 to the year 2000 you get 2102
2012 backwards.
I am as messed up as Nostradamus.

[fromdownunder]

When 2013 clicks over, Nosti adherents will simply use the get out of jail free card that his predictions are not set in concrete, and can be avoided if right action is taken.

After all, many of them seemed to have no problem with accepting that the World did not end in June 1999, (which they promptly switched to September 1999 when July arrived) despite this being one of the very few predictions of Nostradamus which gave a specific date.

Anything that fails to come true according to the initial interpretation can also be retrofitted into any other event, or just plain forgotten. After all, a combination of French/Latin and anagrams translated into English to fit in with the current flavour of the month can be interpreted to be anything you like if you are a true believer.

Ask the magic question though. What would Edgar Cayce do?

Norm

[Denver]

I tried Googling Nostradamus and 2012 a bit, but couldn't find any real references (except it seems to depend on stuff found in that new Lost Book of Nostradamus).

[Whiplash]

I too have never heard of any 2012 Nostradamus connections before now. I was equally baffled when the Nostradamus 9-11 connections where being suggested.

[Beerina]

2012 is (incorrectly, I believe) thought to be the end of reality according to the Mayan calendar (as opposed to just rolling over it's odometer.)

So why not pile on some other perennial claims the world is ending or Something Big Is Up?


After all, these guys just want your money, unless you have a more parsimonious explanation.

[Clairvoyant_Kyle]

When 2013 clicks over, Nosti adherents will simply use the get out of jail free card that his predictions are not set in concrete, and can be avoided if right action is taken.

After all, many of them seemed to have no problem with accepting that the World did not end in June 1999, (which they promptly switched to September 1999 when July arrived) despite this being one of the very few predictions of Nostradamus which gave a specific date.


2012 is (incorrectly, I believe) thought to be the end of reality according to the Mayan calendar (as opposed to just rolling over it's odometer.)

So why not pile on some other perennial claims the world is ending or Something Big Is Up?


After all, these guys just want your money, unless you have a more parsimonious explanation.

Punching money hungry liars in the face should be legal in all 50 states. That might give dicks like Baines a second thought of pushing their BS crap.

-Kyle

[Bikewer]

JcR's post is about right. Randi himself explained in "Masks of Nostradamus" the convoluted steps followers take to make his "predictions" square up with current events. In addition to arcane exercises in numerology, they freely alter the texts to provide better fuel for the "hidden" words and such that can only be found in anagrams built from his words and sentences.

[shadron]

Let's not go blaming the poor Maya's here - they only created a long year cycle. It took latter day apocalyptists to make that into a Doomsday.

[dudalb]

I too have never heard of any 2012 Nostradamus connections before now. I was equally baffled when the Nostradamus 9-11 connections where being suggested.

I would be surprised if the Nosti supporters did not try to jump on to the 2012 prophecy bandwagon.
The History Channel's fascination with Nostadumbass is a major reason for my incrasing dissapointment with THC.

[dudalb]

Punching money hungry liars in the face should be legal in all 50 states. That might give dicks like Baines a second thought of pushing their BS crap.

-Kyle


The Buzz Aldrin method. I love it.

[Diagoras]

Dammit! If only I weren't so honest and ethical, I could make a fortune off people's apocalypse fears, too.

[ShowerComic]

I too have never heard of any 2012 Nostradamus connections before now. I was equally baffled when the Nostradamus 9-11 connections where being suggested.

I recall that all the Nostradamous 9-11 Quatrains were faked. wouldn't surpise me if the 2012 Quatloos err Quatrains are too.

[MG1962]

I have been seeing advertisements for a show on history channel that is called something like Nostradamus and 2012. Now correct me if I am wrong here but this is the first time I have heard Nostradamus related to the dooms day theory of 2012. So If I am right this mean Victor Baines or some other brain dead lackey is going to try and entangle the meaningless quatrains of Nostradamus with the equally meaningless Mayan’s 2012 doomsday crap. I cannot believe the world is this stupid! So 2013 happens then what? We just forget that that 2012 was going to be the end and look for the next doomsday to believe in. What a joke!

-Kyle

We will start gearing up for 2033 - 2000 years since the death of Christ. In the excellent book 1000AD the author goes into great length the fear attributed to 1033AD

[ParrotPirate]

I would be surprised if the Nosti supporters did not try to jump on to the 2012 prophecy bandwagon.
The History Channel's fascination with Nostadumbass is a major reason for my incrasing dissapointment with THC.

Between that and their attempts at passing religious content off as history,I have to agree.

[Ron_Tomkins]

On 2012 my American Student VISA expires, and THAT will be a great tragedy.

If the world came to an end and we all died, then I wouldn't have to worry about what the hell am I gonna do next.

[Soapy Sam]

The world ends at 2012?
But- it's1840 now and I haven't cooked dinner yet!

[dudalb]

Between that and their attempts at passing religious content off as history,I have to agree.

I cut them some slack for the religious angle of some shows (I admit I am more tolerant of religon then a lot of people around here) but don't get me started on the UFO crap they have on.

[GT/CS]

Is the Histroy Channel the one that caters to that goof with the 80s aviator sunglasses and the UFO hat?

[X]

I offer anybody worried about the end of the world in 2012 (I believe December 12 is the day normally quoted) to sign a document granting me possession of all their monies and assets effective as of zero-hundred hours December 13, 2012.

So far, nobody has taken me up on it.

When they refuse, I ask them why they are afraid of Dec. 12, 2012 if they don't believe it?

I call it a public service, and keep looking for a gullible rich person...

[MattusMaximus]

JcR's post is about right. Randi himself explained in "Masks of Nostradamus" the convoluted steps followers take to make his "predictions" square up with current events. In addition to arcane exercises in numerology, they freely alter the texts to provide better fuel for the "hidden" words and such that can only be found in anagrams built from his words and sentences.

And when that doesn't work, they'll just make crap up out of thin air and propagate it on the Internet. Just like what happened with 9-11.

This is a prediction of which I'm 100% certain. Unlike anything Nostradumbass or any of his "followers" have predicted.

[Bell]

I offer anybody worried about the end of the world in 2012 (I believe December 12 is the day normally quoted) to sign a document granting me possession of all their monies and assets effective as of zero-hundred hours December 13, 2012.

So far, nobody has taken me up on it.

When they refuse, I ask them why they are afraid of Dec. 12, 2012 if they don't believe it?

I call it a public service, and keep looking for a gullible rich person...

The date is December 21.
So there may lay the reason why they refuse :)

[Denver]

FYI bump

Apparently this show: "Nostradamus: 2012 (Predictions of cataclysm)"
is on tonight (Jan 4) on the History Channel.
(7PM in US Mountain Time zone)

ETA: The show is 2 hours long! Though, as with most of these kinds of shows, the big "reveal" will probably come in the last 15 minutes.

[quarky]

Pity is, if/when the 'world' does end, there will be no analysis of the date; no "I told you so".

[Whiplash]

We can look forward to their gloating in the "afterlife". ;)

[joobz]

I"m watching the show now. Ouch, the whole leaps of logic are simply painful.
There's simply too much to complain about.

[Gryphus-1]

Yet another, classic piece of Nostradamus trash from the History Channel. I guess the Nostranuts, just had to jump on the 2012 band wagon. Once again History Channel, rolled out the Lost Book, for the show interwoven with Nostradamus' terribly vague quatrains. This time there were new images, that weren't showed off on the last program about the Lost Book. Once again Nostradamus' devoted "experts" are rolled out to discuss the 2012 "predictions." Once again the "experts" interpret the images, and quatrains, and make very flimsy very far reaching explanations, and interpretations, for what the images in the book are showing. Once again there is zero skepticism, not even the token skeptic for the show. Everything is presented as factual. All the same doom and gloom fluff we've come to expect from the History Channel, when they show Nostradamus rubbish.

[joobz]

They did make the dismissive statement (to paraphrase)
"Skeptics claim that the statements of a person 500 years ago have little to do with life today, but that doesn't explain why his prophecies are so accurate"

[Gryphus-1]

They did make the dismissive statement (to paraphrase)
"Skeptics claim that the statements of a person 500 years ago have little to do with life today, but that doesn't explain why his prophecies are so accurate"

I did notice also, that History Channel, was running a viewer discretion advised in the beginning, and between commercial breaks.

[Whiplash]

I find it very distressing that there are people who hold the view that any of Nos' stuff is accurate at all, let alone "so accurate". Very distressing.

[Ernie M]

FYI bump

Apparently this show: "Nostradamus: 2012 (Predictions of cataclysm)"
is on tonight (Jan 4) on the History Channel.
(7PM in US Mountain Time zone)

ETA: The show is 2 hours long! Though, as with most of these kinds of shows, the big "reveal" will probably come in the last 15 minutes.

I missed the 04 Jan 2009 airing of Nostradamus: 2012.
Nostradamus: 2012 is on the History Channel again,
Thursday, 08 Jan 2009 8:00 PM Eastern Time.
I'll watch it then.

There have been so many Nostradamus shows on The History Channel lately. I recently watched The Next Nostradamus. Ugh.

It revolved around Bruce Bueno De Mesquita, a political scientist, who uses a lot of if-then statements for his computer-derived algorithmic predictions rather than stating absolute, definitive facts. If Bruce possessed a true, predictive algorithm, he should be able to state exacting, factual outcomes and not have to speak in vague, ambiguous generalities. He leaves himself an out by making if-then statements.

It’s highly suspicious that Bruce keeps his predictive modeling algorithm proprietary. Why keep the algorithm where no one can see how it works?

To me, this comic by Sidney Harris sums up the predictive vagueness of Nostradamus and Bruce:
http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?sid=40967

The History Channel could have at least better documented the methods used by want-to-be prophets.

Here’s an anagram derived by using a computer algorithm.
I think it’s more accurate than a bent Bruce prediction:

Bruce De Mesquita = Bad Metric Queues

I hope I don't get in trouble for being off-topic because I talked about a different Nostradamus show on the History Channel.

[Denver]

I did notice also, that History Channel, was running a viewer discretion advised in the beginning, and between commercial breaks.

Yes I thought that part was very interesting. It basically said that, while there is much debate over the Nostradamus materials and content, that he has nevertheless become a part of 'the historical record'. I gather by this disclaimer that the channel has gotten enough heat on this kind of "history" that they've actually had to address it somewhat. It's not much, but it's a start.

As to the show:

It was more or less your typical Nostradocumentary. No actual dates. No actual names. A whole lot of 'could it be..."s. A few quatrains were examined briefly, but the overall structure of the show was to walk through the Lost Book of Nostradamus, and examine the pictures there. Apparently the point was to conjecture how well the content there matched the galactic alignment of 2012 which indicates the end of a Mayan calendar cycle.

But they went further. First, they assume the galactic alignment most likely meant disaster. Then they pulled accounts of future disaster predictions from a whole host of other cultures and sources (The Hopi, Christian writings, Hebrew writings, Egyptians, the Freemasons, meteors, magnetic fields, and so on), and spent most of the show trying to tie these (even those with no dates whatsoever) with the 2012 thing.

Other than the Mayan exact date of Dec 21, 2012, no other sources had that date. Some turned it into the 2012 "timeframe", which seemed plus or minus around 10 years (though seemed the Hebrew matchup was plus or minus a thousand). And the interpretations of the pictures in the Nostradamus book, or other symbols elsewhere, were truly bewildering. One of the book pictures was someone shooting an arrow at a woman. The narrator noted that the shooter was mean to represent the constellation Sagittarius, and the woman was meant to be the center of the galaxy. How could I have missed that! Later, a carving of a star on some pillar was the center of the galaxy. And some religious carving on some cathedral by the Freemasons was the center of the galaxy.

Finally, I don't think I ever counted so many "some believe..." statements prepending so many statements. With, of course, no clarification of who those "some" are.

So overall, it was two hours of nothing new.

[quarky]

In Kentucky, 2012 doesn't happen until 2022.

[joobz]

Other than the Mayan exact date of Dec 21, 2012, no other sources had that date. Some turned it into the 2012 "timeframe", which seemed plus or minus around 10 years (though seemed the Hebrew matchup was plus or minus a thousand). And the interpretations of the pictures in the Nostradamus book, or other symbols elsewhere, were truly bewildering. One of the book pictures was someone shooting an arrow at a woman. The narrator noted that the shooter was mean to represent the constellation Sagittarius, and the woman was meant to be the center of the galaxy. How could I have missed that!
That one had me rolling. It's clear that if we draw arbitary line through the picture of the woman and one through the arrow of saggitarius, it forms an X. And this X is just like the X if we draw an arbitary X through the center of the galaxy and the constellation of Sagittarius!!!

Or the one picture that had a spiral. This sprial is the milkey way galaxy! How did Nastradomus know that our galaxy is a spiral. (just ignore that the drawing was a single spiral and not the multi arm form of the milkyway).

Or that one picture had 3 eclipses and they went on to explain how there will be 3 eclipses in 2012 and how rare to have three in one year is.
A solar eclipse, an eclipse of Jupiter (What??) and the Center of the galaxy eclipse.
a quick search on google turned up 6 projected eclipses to occur in 2009.


Finally, when I saw those three "eclipses", I thought they were three crecent moons. Why not simply say that the picture represents something that occurs over 3 months?

[Gryphus-1]

The whole Lost Book of Nostradamus, is such a joke. IIRC, the last Lost Book show that the History Channel aired back in 07, it was determined that the book wasn't created by Nostradamus, let alone associated with him, other than having his name written on it. Personally I feel the Lost Book is a scam being perpetrated by the Nostranut "experts." Just to tie him to 2012. The images are too fresh looking. Of course they never actually show the book, its always an image of the image with 3D effects thrown in. Let skeptics, and real scientists get a hold of this book for testing. I bet it wouldn't be older than a few years.