My Mum is Making Me Take Homeopathic Medicine

[Legend]

Here's the deal. I'm scared I might be coming down with a cold sore on my lip. Questioning why I was applying Tea Tree Oil to my lip, my Mum decided she knew what to do. She gave me some homeopathic cr@p which literally tastes like nothing.

I told her I might as well drizzle water over it, to which she maturely replied, "stop being such a skeptic".

"It's fake and you're wasting your money."
"Not if it works." At which point I pulled every last strand of my hair out of my head.

She is the most stubborn person I know.

Honestly...

Alex.

[ImaginalDisc]

My mother tried the same thing on my just a few weeks ago when I went for a visit.

There's a reason we don't get along.

[Legend]

I know.

The argument continues as I'm typing this.

She said to keep applying it, so I ran to the tap and put water on my lip. "Don't be so ignorant." No, no...that's what SHE told ME.

"Spend your money on medicine. Stuff that's proven to actually work."
"I have. It doesn't always work."

I walked out with a red face.

I'm not applying that rubbish to my tongue ever again.

Alex.

[ImaginalDisc]

I think what I said when my mother insisted I take some homeoathic medicine was "I'm losing my voice, but I'm not thirsty, thanks"

[Miss_Kitt]

Not to intrude, but are you young enough that your Mum still makes these decisions for you?? If not, a courteous, "I'll do what I think is right with my body, thank you," should do -- and be polite and sincere, not snotty, with your tone.

If you're simply a very mature 12, then remember that it's just water, and placate her. It's worth it to not have her rummaging through your bureau drawers looking for naughty magazines.

-- MK

[Legend]

I think what I said when my mother insisted I take some homeoathic medicine was "I'm losing my voice, but I'm not thirsty, thanks"

:D Ha. That's awesome. I might just have to sig that. With your permission of course...

If you're simply a very mature 12, then remember that it's just water, and placate her. It's worth it to not have her rummaging through your bureau drawers looking for naughty magazines.

I'm 16. Make of that what you will. She'd not shut up if I refused to take it. Then get pissed off, then yell, then take my "privileges" away, be annoyed for the rest of the day and hold a grudge with me which I along with my two younger brothers and Dad will have to bear for a solid 48 hours. I question a rebellion's worth.

Alex.

[Chimera]

It doesn't help when drugstores peddle the stuff in the same area as the real medicine. I've been purchasing Afrin and Mucinex in the "cold and flu" section and am forced to look at the Oscillococcinum proudly stacked right next to it. Creeps.

[arthwollipot]

Then just take the damn stuff. It can't possibly make your condition worse, and if it avoids unpleasant conflict with your mother, it's probably worth it.

Keep using what you know works though. That way when your mum says "see? look how well ot worked" you can say "well, I was actually using this other stuff as well, and that's what worked".

[arthwollipot]

It doesn't help when drugstores peddle the stuff in the same area as the real medicine. I've been purchasing Afrin and Mucinex in the "cold and flu" section and am forced to look at the Oscillococcinum proudly stacked right next to it. Creeps.I was in a pharmacy a little while back, and I noticed that the homeopathic anti-snoring remedy was sitting right next to the boxes of earplugs. :D

[Uncayimmy]

Start walking around with pebbles in your mouth and doing strange dances to no music. When you mum asks, tell her you believe it will work. When she says that's silly, tell her you're trying not to be a skeptic.

[Jeff Corey]

Do wot I done with me mum when she guve me the cod liver oil or datura tea. Pop her in the snotlocker good and hard. Doz it everry time.

[Legend]

Start walking around with pebbles in your mouth and doing strange dances to no music. When you mum asks, tell her you believe it will work. When she says that's silly, tell her you're trying not to be a skeptic.

I am so doing that. You've reached legendary status in my books.

Do wot I done with me mum when she guve me the cod liver oil or datura tea. Pop her in the snotlocker good and hard. Doz it everry time.

I'm lost.

Alex.

[Jeff Corey]

I am so doing that. You've reached legendary status in my books.



I'm lost.

Alex.

Sorry, I forgot that people speak other forms of English here. I just had to look up "Taking the mickey " on another thread.
Yer snotlocker is your nose, nez,pinocchio or nixon.

[ImaginalDisc]

It is the burden of every child to pretend that their parents aren't, at least occasionally, clueless idiots.

Parents have the same burden.

[Legend]

It is the burden of every child to pretend that their parents aren't, at least occasionally, clueless idiots.

She truly is. At least often...

Sorry, I forgot that people speak other forms of English here. I just had to look up "Taking the mickey " on another thread.
Yer snotlocker is your nose, nez,pinocchio or nixon.

I'd like to refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave a few moments ago.

Taking the mickey out of teenagers?

Alex.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Join the club.

My mother is particularly drawn to nonsense (she does believe in a variety of eye-roll inducing things but isn't invested much at all in them) but lately she's begun to believe in the "detoxifying effects" of algae. It's intended to be used for weight-loss and supposed to be popular in Japan, allegedly.

I tried looking for information online about thisbut could find nothing, not even in the Skeptic's Dictionary. It must be an obscure belief.

[Legend]

Indeed that is an odd one.

Alex.

[Miss_Kitt]

...

I'm 16. Make of that what you will. She'd not shut up if I refused to take it. Then get pissed off, then yell, then take my "privileges" away, be annoyed for the rest of the day and hold a grudge with me which I along with my two younger brothers and Dad will have to bear for a solid 48 hours. I question a rebellion's worth.

Alex.

Sorry if my post was unclear. It's worth taking the stuff to not have her hacked at you. Being a teenager is a difficult time for a number of reasons, but having a blatantly irrational parent just makes it worse.

It's exactly like handing the policeman your driver's license when he asks: Just follow the form to avoid the hassle. Save your strength for the important things.

Best wishes, most sincerely, and be glad she isn't making you handle rattlesnakes to get gawd's blessing!!

Regards, MK

[Jonquill]

Tell her that homepathic medicine works best when used in conjuntion with Zovirax, say it raises the vibrational energies or something :)

[Legend]

Sorry if my post was unclear. It's worth taking the stuff to not have her hacked at you. Being a teenager is a difficult time for a number of reasons, but having a blatantly irrational parent just makes it worse.

It's exactly like handing the policeman your driver's license when he asks: Just follow the form to avoid the hassle. Save your strength for the important things.

Best wishes, most sincerely, and be glad she isn't making you handle rattlesnakes to get gawd's blessing!!

Regards, MK

Indeed. Thank you.

As for the stupid rubbish, I think I'm just gonna take it, seeing as that's apparently the best thing to do according to you guys.

I'll still crack a few jokes though...

Alex.

[rjh01]

Try laughing (slightly) in her face. Or treat her with contempt. Just do not take her seriously. The secret is to behave in the opposite way to her.

I must admit I never did work out how to deal with a stupid mother.

Do you have any brothers or sisters? Can they help?

If you have a cold sore then the answer is to go to the doctor and get the diagnosis confirmed. Then the chemist can give you some proper treatment. Will not cure it but it will reduce the severity and length of time it exists.

Google "cold sores" for more information.

Reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex

[wollery]

Join the club.

My mother is particularly drawn to nonsense (she does believe in a variety of eye-roll inducing things but isn't invested much at all in them) but lately she's begun to believe in the "detoxifying effects" of algae. It's intended to be used for weight-loss and supposed to be popular in Japan, allegedly.

I tried looking for information online about thisbut could find nothing, not even in the Skeptic's Dictionary. It must be an obscure belief.Because we all know that the average Japanese needs to lose weight.

No? Must be all the algae they eat. :rolleyes:

[polarbear777]

Tell her that homepathic medicine works best when used in conjuntion with Zovirax, say it raises the vibrational energies or something :)

Oh, that's a good one. Great line. You have to try saying that one.

Your mom sounds like a caring lady who probably works hard to take care of the family. She might be a little bit difficult to get along with. It appears that you are the one who has a more rational and reasonable mind though. If you confront her, reject her help and make her feel stupid you will be undercutting one of the only means she knows to show affection to you. She wants to help you. If you want her to be more reasonable and skeptical, you first have to win her favor and trust. Go along with some of her stuff. Especially if it doesn't hurt you. Plant some sincere questions like: "Why do you think this will be so good for me?", etc. Learn how she thinks. Then later you can more gently discuss with her what you know, if and when she is open to it. You can't force someone to learn.

Keep building good relationships. Then you can help poeple like your mom avoid such foolishness as homeopathy. Every person that can learn skepticism or critical thinking from us, is one more empowered and free citizen in our country. Skepticism is the front line of liberty, not the NRA.

[lionking]

As arthiwollipot said, it's probably wise to just take it. But these sort of things will come up regularly. There's only so many times you can turn the other cheek. Just last Christmas (2007, that is) at our Managers Christmas party, I was regaled by a series of testimonials in favor of dowsing, faith healing, the power of prayer etc until I cracked, called it all rubbish and gave reasons. I'm glad I did it, but it hardly added to my popularity.

I guess that I'm saying that there comes a time when all skeptics are challenged. Many just shut up and go with the flow. Some (like me) don't. You just need to weigh up the consequences, and in your case and at this time, it is not worth the fight.

[rjh01]

The choice of whether to fight or not is up to Legend. The issue is not Homeopathic Medicine. he issue is the relationship between him and his mother. We do not know the big picture. So our advice is not worth the paper (electrons?) it is written on.

[DC]

use it an show you mom its not working :)

[Mojo]

Then just take the damn stuff. It can't possibly make your condition worse...


A minor caveat: check exactly what is in it. Some medicines labelled as "homeopathic" can actually contain active ingredients (not in the UK, but I don't know what the regulations are for this in Australia).

[Mojo]

use it an show you mom its not working :)


We're talking about a cold sore here: that's an ideal condition for homoeopathy because it will go away of its own accord. If Legend uses the homoeopathic medicine, his mum will almost inevitably be able to apply the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

[biomorph]

Here's the deal. I'm scared I might be coming down with a cold sore on my lip.
Hey, it's not that scarey..:)

Questioning why I was applying Tea Tree Oil to my lip, my Mum decided she knew what to do. She gave me some homeopathic cr@p which literally tastes like nothing.

Ok......there this thing that mothers do called bringing up kids, right?

She has, in many instances no doubt done the right thing for you without your express permision I guess earlier in your life.

You're here yeah?

It gets habitual, and when you have to "let go" the kid the process can be long drawn out and pain for both sides.

Sometimes its hard to let go you know?

I told her I might as well drizzle water over it, to which she maturely replied, "stop being such a skeptic".


There you go, in effect she's saying to you as she has had to many times "stop wriggling" as if you are younger.

These two things feel sometimes like a sort of unwanted intrusion. That is you're already there, and the parent has to catch up with that.


"It's fake and you're wasting your money."
"Not if it works." At which point I pulled every last strand of my hair out of my head.

This is where the situation escalates as resistance is encountered.

However getting this far means you are getting into a sort of arms race, which I think is not so productive.

Find some other way.

She is the most stubborn person I know.

Honestly...

Alex.

Well if she has ever had stick up for you that's a good thing, isn't it?
If she hasn't, then it's still an asset if she has to in the future..

If she insisted that what she thinks is good for you is possibly more harmful than hpthy, then I'd be more concerned. Fortunately Hpathy dosn't do anything.

My point here is perhaps its that time when you need to get her in a relaxed setting and discuss your personal healthcare and who is responsable for that at any given situation.

Ie
you break leg, she calls ambulance.

you have headache? you sort it out.

Arguing about specific methods I feel might not be so useful.

She also allowed to waste her money where she pleases, so far. Stay off that too, thats not going to make her feel
like you are addressing the issue.

To me that would say instinctively " you've run out of ammo and you do think it works but now you are just being an awkward baby" and boy she's probebly seen some of them, somewhere.

Maybe not you.

Having a view on this can be taken as an agument over general healthcare or hpathy.

I think that discussing the former will send the right signals, hpathy discussions can desend into "I'm right" ..."No you aren't" types of exchanges.

Best avoid them...... Most times winners are few on the ground with that game, cos it only gets harder to play as you go on.
The chances of resolution recede as exchange goes on.

Mostly.......

You both know each other somewhat, you'll figure out to get there, and still be ok with your mum.

I'm not saying it'll be easy, or hard.

It might be both.

good luck and hell, I could be wrong, I'm not family.

[tesscaline]

I wonder what your mom would think if you told her you were using a homeopathic form of birth control... Hmm... ;)

[fls]

I wonder what your mom would think if you told her you were using a homeopathic form of birth control... Hmm... ;)

I like that one. It shifts it solidly into the 'stuff that doesn't go away on its own' category and forces her to confront her own thinking on the subject (rather than simply reject her son's).

Linda

[DC]

I wonder what your mom would think if you told her you were using a homeopathic form of birth control... Hmm... ;)

aah nice one.

[Legend]

I wonder what your mom would think if you told her you were using a homeopathic form of birth control... Hmm... ;)

Although recently "men" (boys if you don't consider a 16 a "man" yet) have been seen getting pregnant, it certainly isn't the case for me. ;)

Although the idea is absolutely marvellous.

Here's the deal. I'm scared I might be coming down with a cold sore on my lip.
Hey, it's not that scarey..

Questioning why I was applying Tea Tree Oil to my lip, my Mum decided she knew what to do. She gave me some homeopathic cr@p which literally tastes like nothing.
Ok......there this thing that mothers do called bringing up kids, right?

She has, in many instances no doubt done the right thing for you without your express permision I guess earlier in your life.

You're here yeah?

It gets habitual, and when you have to "let go" the kid the process can be long drawn out and pain for both sides.

Sometimes its hard to let go you know?

I told her I might as well drizzle water over it, to which she maturely replied, "stop being such a skeptic".
There you go, in effect she's saying to you as she has had to many times "stop wriggling" as if you are younger.

These two things feel sometimes like a sort of unwanted intrusion. That is you're already there, and the parent has to catch up with that.

"It's fake and you're wasting your money."
"Not if it works." At which point I pulled every last strand of my hair out of my head.
This is where the situation escalates as resistance is encountered.

However getting this far means you are getting into a sort of arms race, which I think is not so productive.

Find some other way.

She is the most stubborn person I know.

Honestly...

Alex.
Well if she has ever had stick up for you that's a good thing, isn't it?
If she hasn't, then it's still an asset if she has to in the future..

If she insisted that what she thinks is good for you is possibly more harmful than hpthy, then I'd be more concerned. Fortunately Hpathy dosn't do anything.

My point here is perhaps its that time when you need to get her in a relaxed setting and discuss your personal healthcare and who is responsable for that at any given situation.

Ie
you break leg, she calls ambulance.

you have headache? you sort it out.

Arguing about specific methods I feel might not be so useful.

She also allowed to waste her money where she pleases, so far. Stay off that too, thats not going to make her feel
like you are addressing the issue.

To me that would say instinctively " you've run out of ammo and you do think it works but now you are just being an awkward baby" and boy she's probebly seen some of them, somewhere.

Maybe not you.

Having a view on this can be taken as an agument over general healthcare or hpathy.

I think that discussing the former will send the right signals, hpathy discussions can desend into "I'm right" ..."No you aren't" types of exchanges.

Best avoid them...... Most times winners are few on the ground with that game, cos it only gets harder to play as you go on.
The chances of resolution recede as exchange goes on.

Mostly.......

You both know each other somewhat, you'll figure out to get there, and still be ok with your mum.

I'm not saying it'll be easy, or hard.

It might be both.

good luck and hell, I could be wrong, I'm not family.

Wow. Thanks, I guess. Although it is very different with my Mum. It's hard to explain. I'd usually go through each section of what you said and reply to it, but I'm not going to.

Alex.

[TX50]

What does your dad say?

[Legend]

As of this far...nothing at all. He gave me a weird look when I said "that stuff doesn't work", but when I mentioned homeopathy, he turned back to his dinner plate.

I'd like to mention that both my parents don't believe in psychics or ghosts, although my Mum believes in God and weird occurrences.

Like the white dove at Christmas, to which she agreed with my mentally blind extended family, was the "spirit" of my late Nonno. Just goes to show how strangely that woman really thinks.

Alex.

[fls]

Although recently "men" (boys if you don't consider a 16 a "man" yet) have been seen getting pregnant, it certainly isn't the case for me. ;)

Although the idea is absolutely marvellous.

Homeopathic condoms or homeopathic male oral contraceptives.

Unless you were telling us that if you impregnated a woman, it would be of no concern to you or your mother.

Linda

[Legend]

Homeopathic condoms.

Linda

You people seriously make me laugh sometimes.

Nice one.

EDIT: In regards to your edit: "Unless you were telling us that if you impregnated a woman, it would be of no concern to you or your mother." I was certainly not. I'm smarter than to get myself in a situation like that anyway.

Alex.

[biomorph]

Although recently "men" (boys if you don't consider a 16 a "man" yet) have been seen getting pregnant, it certainly isn't the case for me. ;)

homeopathic spermicide?

Although the idea is absolutely marvellous.

Wow. Thanks, I guess. Although it is very different with my Mum. It's hard to explain. I'd usually go through each section of what you said and reply to it, but I'm not going to.

Alex.

Thats fine, you don't have to explain, I sorta understand that, because sometimes things just are not simple.

I've thrown quite a few generalities in there , to be sure, my point is though that there's usually a way. Its just a nicer road if each party can at least avoid confrontaion.

Thats all I'm on about.

That may seem and might be impossible from where you are personally with it all, for sure.........

[Legend]

homeopathic spermicide?

I see.

Thats fine, you don't have to explain, I sorta understand that, because sometimes things just are not simple.

I've thrown quite a few generalities in there , to be sure, my point is though that there's usually a way. Its just a nicer road if each party can at least avoid confrontaion.

Thats all I'm on about.

That may seem and might be impossible from where you are personally with it all, for sure.........

It is...I think.

My family is different to the mentality of many other families. I consider myself as rather observant and..."fair" with my thinking, which is one of the reasons me and Dad have verbal confrontations (politician's talk) with each other often, although it usually ends with me conceding that he's way too hard to convince of anything.

TO LINDA, SKEPTICHICK & BIOMORPH: regarding the whole male birth control stuff, I'd never speak about my...sex life with her. Even mentioning it at all. Just nup. Not with my family. Way too prudish. While I'm not, my family's atmosphere is.

Alex.

[biomorph]

As of this far...nothing at all. He gave me a weird look when I said "that stuff doesn't work", but when I mentioned homeopathy, he turned back to his dinner plate.
ok , here's where (in my mind) he's signaling to you "don't upset your mum cos we'll all catch it"

Yeah?

Then having shown a reaction at all, he seen your face/ reaction whatever, and decided for some reason to not get involved.
Then she won't be able at least to blame him, though she'll try maybe. This turns him into a listener, rather than a problem. Again I'm sort of guessing , if your ok with that....:) A lot of women consider a problem shared a good thing, he knows he's better of there than to be backing you up. he knows his place. Maybe..........


I'd like to mention that both my parents don't believe in psychics or ghosts, although my Mum believes in God and weird occurrences.

Yup its common, moreso IMO than in males, but that might rightly be open to dispute, that preference.

Like the white dove at Christmas, to which she agreed with my mentally blind extended family, was the "spirit" of my late Nonno. Just goes to show how strangely that woman really thinks.

Alex.

You are lucky, you have teachers.

In how not to think perhaps, than rather than what to think............It might stand you in good stead at some point in the future, maybe.............:)

[Legend]

ok , here's where (in my mind) he's signaling to you "don't upset your mum cos we'll all catch it"

Yeah?

Then having shown a reaction at all, he seen your face/ reaction whatever, and decided for some reason to not get involved.
Then she won't be able at least to blame him, though she'll try maybe. This turns him into a listener, rather than a problem. Again I'm sort of guessing , if your ok with that....:) A lot of women consider a problem shared a good thing, he knows he's better of there than to be backing you up. he knows his place. Maybe..........

You're good, that's what he'd usually do, but not this time. It was an objective look like, "What are you on about? Of course it works". Then I mentioned homeopathy, and he dropped it and said not another word.

You are lucky, you have teachers.

Teachers suck...you know that. ;) Thank God for holidays...

Don't give me that lecture! Don't even think about it! :D . I've heard it before "worse when you leave, enjoy it while it lasts, blah blah blah". But for the moment, unlike my usual take on this, I'll stay the ignorant and ideologically rebellious teenager.

Alex.

[Cainkane1]

Here's the deal. I'm scared I might be coming down with a cold sore on my lip. Questioning why I was applying Tea Tree Oil to my lip, my Mum decided she knew what to do. She gave me some homeopathic cr@p which literally tastes like nothing.

I told her I might as well drizzle water over it, to which she maturely replied, "stop being such a skeptic".

"It's fake and you're wasting your money."
"Not if it works." At which point I pulled every last strand of my hair out of my head.

She is the most stubborn person I know.

Honestly...

Alex.
Hopefully shes not using collodial silver. Your Mum loves you or she wouldn't be treating you with any medicine at all. One day you'll be on your own and you won't have to take woo woo meds. Until then be glad your mother loves you enough to try to help you.

[fls]

TO LINDA, SKEPTICHICK & BIOMORPH: regarding the whole male birth control stuff, I'd never speak about my...sex life with her. Even mentioning it at all. Just nup. Not with my family. Way too prudish. While I'm not, my family's atmosphere is.

Alex.

Well, we're mostly joking I think.

But maybe you could mention a 'friend' who swears by homeopathic condoms...

Linda

[biomorph]

I see.



It is...I think.

sounds hopeful..........:)

My family is different to the mentality of many other families. I consider myself as rather observant and..."fair" with my thinking, which is one of the reasons me and Dad have verbal confrontations (politician's talk) with each other often, although it usually ends with me conceding that he's way too hard to convince of anything.

hey, sounds familiar to me, we're not related are we? no.
My parents and I sorta still have issues.
I now try not to make new ones.....let it slide.

TO LINDA, SKEPTICHICK & BIOMORPH: regarding the whole male birth control stuff, I'd never speak about my...sex life with her. Even mentioning it at all. Just nup. Not with my family. Way too prudish. While I'm not, my family's atmosphere is.

Alex.

My lot too, and no sex education much at school either for me..

That caused a world of hurt I can assure you.

Fair enough.

[Legend]

Well, we're mostly joking I think.

But maybe you could mention a 'friend' who swears by homeopathic condoms...

Linda

I wish I could look her in the eye and tell her that. Not a chance. Like I said, so damn prudish. She's not really, nor am I, but my family's atmosphere is. Plus, it'd be awkward for me. I really wish I could.

Even the thought of being a "dad" at this age...ewww.

I now try not to make new ones.....let it slide.

Me too. It's not worth my time at all. He's a very mentally strict, ignorant and bias man. It's impossible to persuade him otherwise. Very competitive too. It translates to other forms than just sport too. "The Beatles" are over-rated, apparently. Living in Australia, of course a massive Pommy band is over-rated...they aren't Australian...or Italian, for that matter.

One day you'll be on your own and you won't have to take woo woo meds.

Yay.

Until then be glad your mother loves you enough to try to help you.

I s'pose.

My lot too, and no sex education much at school either for me..

That caused a world of hurt I can assure you.

Thank God for the internet. Did I just write that?

Alex.

[JimBenArm]

You know, even though it's worthless for treating cold sores, at least it will keep you hydrated. And it will placate her. So there are those advantages to the magic potion.

My wife and daughters are somewhat woo-ish at times. I've learned to pick my battles. Recently, one of my daughters (who has a lovely singing voice) stopped drinking soda. When I asked her why, she said that the acid could burn her vocal cords, and that one of her friends had pointed that out to her. I asked her if she was going to drink it or inhale it. Got a strange look. Then I asked her where her vocal cords were in relation to her esophagus. Light bulb finally came on.

BTW, off topic, but I loved your city the one time I was there. My sub pulled into Freemantle in 1978 for three days, and it was my favorite port visit ever. I know nothing has changed since then, right? Right?

[biomorph]

You're good, that's what he'd usually do, but not this time. It was an objective look like, "What are you on about? Of course it works". Then I mentioned homeopathy, and he dropped it and said not another word.

Ah, fair enuff..........

Teachers suck...you know that. ;) Thank God for holidays...

I know some do, and some did.
Not all.


Don't give me that lecture! Don't even think about it! :D . I've heard it before "worse when you leave, enjoy it while it lasts, blah blah blah".

However no, thats not the point i'm making.

I could n't wait to get out, and first oportunity I was gone.


But for the moment, unlike my usual take on this, I'll stay the ignorant and ideologically rebellious teenager.

Alex.
Thats ok, nice to see some spirit...........

[devnull]

if you are really sure its homeopathic, just drink the whole lot in front of her all at once......

should get a nice reaction :D

[Legend]

JimBenArm:

Thanks for your post.

BTW, off topic, but I loved your city the one time I was there.

Perth is boring.

I wish we were more exciting. We're the biggest state in the world and we ain't got nuffin'! Also the most secluded capital in the world. If you ever travel again. I stress that you visit the Gold Coast.

My sub pulled into Freemantle in 1978 for three days, and it was my favorite port visit ever. I know nothing has changed since then, right? Right?

Fremantle** One 'e'. I'd imagine the ports would be the exact same. ;)

Fremantle is nice. Perhaps you've heard of the "Fremantle Doctor"? That is one lovely wind.

Too bad they're footy team is shocking...

You live in the States. I've got to visit there. And Canada. One day...

I have been saving and I've currently got AUD $8 000 saved up! I want to travel badly. I want to go to a busy city. Tall buildings, people with breficases looking important...and yellow taxis that you see in the movies, where you can call them to stop when they're driving! WOW! :eek:

Kansas City looks really nice. The only thing I know about Kansas City is something about hockey...

Alex.

[Legend]

if you are really sure its homeopathic, just drink the whole lot in front of her all at once......

should get a nice reaction :D

I don't think I'm prepared for that type of verbal explosion.

However no, thats not the point i'm making.

I could n't wait to get out, and first oportunity I was gone.

I can't wait to get out. The freedom! Except I'm not in a rush to get my license.

Alex.

[tesscaline]

TO LINDA, SKEPTICHICK & BIOMORPH: regarding the whole male birth control stuff, I'd never speak about my...sex life with her. Even mentioning it at all. Just nup. Not with my family. Way too prudish. While I'm not, my family's atmosphere is.

Alex.I wasn't really being serious. I wouldn't ever dream of discussing my sex life with my parents either. I was mainly taking a bit of a stab at the homeopathic mentality, and how as much as they preach homeopathic pain killers and lip balms they wouldn't ever risk themselves on a homeopathic form of birth control.

Chin up kiddo :) You won't have to put up with crazy homeopathic remedies being shoved in your face forever. As long as whatever illness you have isn't life threatening, just grin and bear it for a while while secretly using real medicine on the side :)

[JimBenArm]

Kansas City had a hockey team in the 1970's, I believe it was. The Kansas City Scouts. Lasted two seasons, set NHL records for futility, and was disbanded or moved. Maybe even lined up and shot. Since then, the NHL avoids my beloved city like the plague, for some reason.

[biomorph]

I get it about your dad, yup.

He doesn't sound so secure as he might, or happy.

If you push it with him he's going to likely feel more insecure, not good.

while hes wobbling about trying to regain some sort of intellectual footing with you, he might not make much sense. ....



Thank God for the internet. Did I just write that?

Alex.

YES.
I've set your preferences to "stricktly uninteresting" for the week, let me know how you get on........:duck::):)

[Legend]

Chin up kiddo :) You won't have to put up with crazy homeopathic remedies being shoved in your face forever. As long as whatever illness you have isn't life threatening, just grin and bear it for a while while secretly using real medicine on the side :)

I am and will continue to. :) Thanks.

Kansas City had a hockey team in the 1970's, I believe it was. The Kansas City Scouts. Lasted two seasons, set NHL records for futility, and was disbanded or moved. Maybe even lined up and shot. Since then, the NHL avoids my beloved city like the plague, for some reason.

I wonder why they're avoiding you guys...;)

Unlucky. By the way, I genuinely am happy that you enjoyed Perth.

YES.
I've set your preferences to "stricktly uninteresting" for the week, let me know how you get on........

Shhhhhhhhhhh. :D

I have the most hilarious mate. Name is Nick. This type of "stuff" appears the absolute focal part of his life. Some of the things he comes up with will send you crying in tears of laughter.

Alex.

[Mojo]

Well, we're mostly joking I think.


Not so sure about these guys though:

http://homeocare.blogspot.com/2006/05/contraception-homeopathy.html
http://abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/58092/
http://nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=1200&st=0

[Legend]

^^ Some people...

Alex.

[Legend]

I think it's about time I formally thanked those who've replied in this thread. Everything is so helpful and I'm glad that I got the reactions I got.

So...yeah...thanks. :)

Alex.

[biomorph]

I have the most hilarious mate. Name is Nick. This type of "stuff" appears the absolute focal part of his life. Some of the things he comes up with will send you crying in tears of laughter.

Alex.

Thanks .

I have my moments.

:)
Nice to meet you too.

[Legend]

Indeed nice meeting you.

Although I'm a little tired and my brain is being annoying. Is your name Nick?

See, I was referring to a mate called Nick who is my age (well a year older but meh) who is so definitively grounded with "it" and says the most hilarious things sometimes. He's stupid, but funny in a natural, unintentional way. If ever there was an Australian "jock"...he is one.

So right now, I could take your comment as an indirect and witty way of saying, my name is "Nick", hence you saying "nice to meet you too" -- OR -- as an innocent and nice comment directly regarding this thread. If the latter, you have indeed made me laugh on more occasions than one in this conversation, as have other contributing members.

Alex.

[Damien Evans]

You're good, that's what he'd usually do, but not this time. It was an objective look like, "What are you on about? Of course it works". Then I mentioned homeopathy, and he dropped it and said not another word.



Teachers suck...you know that. ;) Thank God for holidays...

Don't give me that lecture! Don't even think about it! :D . I've heard it before "worse when you leave, enjoy it while it lasts, blah blah blah". But for the moment, unlike my usual take on this, I'll stay the ignorant and ideologically rebellious teenager.

Alex.

Seriously, take it from a 20 year old. High school is the best years of your life. It took me about a year after I left to realise this.

[Legend]

Heard it a million times. If schooling is the best years of your life, what does that say about the rest of my life?

I'll strive to make my life awesome. I won't get married and do spasmodic things and be rich.

I wish.

Alex.

[biomorph]

Indeed nice meeting you.

Although I'm a little tired and my brain is being annoying. Is your name Nick?

No, but if it helps you can call me nick, while I dial 911.:D


See, I was referring to a mate called Nick who is my age (well a year older but meh) who is so definitively grounded with "it" and says the most hilarious things sometimes. He's stupid, but funny in a natural, unintentional way. If ever there was an Australian "jock"...he is one.

Ah.

So right now, I could take your comment as an indirect and witty way of saying, my name is "Nick", hence you saying "nice to meet you too" -- OR -- as an innocent and nice comment directly regarding this thread. If the latter, you have indeed made me laugh on more occasions than one in this conversation, as have other contributing members.

Alex.

The latter, and glad to be of service.

I've laughed too, good thread.:)

[fls]

Heard it a million times. If schooling is the best years of your life, what does that say about the rest of my life?

I'll strive to make my life awesome. I won't get married and do spasmodic things and be rich.

I wish.

Alex.

Don't worry about it. I heard that crap, too. But it's wrong. There aren't any particular restrictions on when the best years of your life will be. (And I've got half my life under my belt (making the usual assumptions about life-expectancy).)

Linda

[Legend]

I've laughed too, good thread.:)

I'm glad others are enjoying my threads. And to the laughter you've had, I'm slowly getting used to the humour of this site. I received some praise for others in other areas. Good to see you've enjoyed it.

Don't worry about it. I heard that crap, too. But it's wrong. There aren't any particular restrictions on when the best years of your life will be.

My thoughts exactly. I just hope that "enjoyment" doesn't start a slow, inevitable, downward slope like many people have suggested. I'm not letting that thought bother me. Perhaps for some, but I doubt it for myself.

Alex.

[Sherman Bay]

I'm with the "take it and shut up" crowd. At least it won't hurt you.

Does your Mom take any homeopathic "medicines" herself? If so, why not switch the contents of hers with yours (obviously this only works if they look the same and have the same kind of base). When she tells you how well hers works, confront her. I'll bet she won't believe you, but welcome to the world of true believers.

[Legend]

She doesn't take stuff herself. This was recommended by a friend. It's sort of a...passive belief. Something she gives no thought to, and so, goes with the "default" belief, if you will.

If I am ever able to do what you've described, I will most certainly. Oooh, it's so evil though. I'm on the fence.

Alex.

[Kochanski]

Legend, get the book "Trick or Treatment" by Simon Singh & Edzard Ernst. Read it, then show it to your mum. See if it opens her eyes ;)

[Reno]

My mother is way into woo. My father suffers occasionally from arthritis in his legs. My mother convinced him to start wearing copper bracelets, then magnets. He is now never without his copper bracelet inlaid with magnetic strips. Whenever his arthritis flares up, he throws the bracelet away and buys a new one because his has 'run out of energy'. After a few days wearing his new one, the arthritis calms down. Nothing I can say convinces either of them that his arthritis will flare up and down regardless of the bracelet.

He started taking homeopathic pills. At dinner one evening, he seemed to be in a fair amount of discomfort and took a homeopathic pill. I asked him why he didn't take two or more and maybe they would work faster. He told me that he had to be careful not to overdose as the medicine was small doses of a toxic poison the same as arthritis and you cured like with like. I asked to see his bottle. When he gave it to me, I checked that it was a purely homeopathic medicine. The label said Rhus toxicodendron (I guess that's where the quack pointed to the 'toxic' part and told my dad the nonsense.)

I asked my dad how many would constitute an overdose, and he said that the 'doctor' told him no more than one every four hours. I estimated there were between 400 and 500 tiny pills in the bottle and asked my dad if that was about right. He said the bottle had 500 in it when he bought it and he had been using them for a few days. I calmly tipped the whole bottle into my mouth (they really are tiny) and swallowed the lot with a big glass of wine. My dad's jaw dropped and I nonchalantly continued with my dinner.

My dad didn't renew his supply. He still wears the bracelet and I haven't figured out a way to deal with that.

[TX50]

Rhus toxicodendron is "poison ivy".

Don't the homeopathetic crowd say that alcohol neutralises their potions?
Lucky escape you had there by drowning it in wine. You could have had a
horrible reaction like...well...errr...something pretty damn horrible, I'm sure.
Wind, maybe. :D

[Reno]

1 molecule of poison ivy in a pool of water the size of the universe, shaken not stirred. I'm not worried ;)

[Langis]

My parents are both knee deep in woo, which is part of the reason I try to avoid them whenever possible.

An example:

My father, no word of a lie, believes that "America invented AIDS to destroy Africa."

Pressed for proof, my father accused me of being "brainwashed."

[Myriad]

I don't recommend actually doing this but, since the "homeopathic birth control" idea has so much baggage, Legend might instead try insisting on using "homeopathic soap" for all household cleansing chores such as dishwashing, laundry, and hand washing. This can easily be made at home by taking some dirt or grimy rinse water and diluting it to 50X or so.

I also hear that a mere 20X preparation of Coca-Cola makes a marvelous homeopathic toothpaste.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Damien Evans]

Heard it a million times. If schooling is the best years of your life, what does that say about the rest of my life?

I'll strive to make my life awesome. I won't get married and do spasmodic things and be rich.

I wish.

Alex.

The only reason I say it is because you get to see your mates 6 hours a day 5 days a week, which is kind of hard to do once you're working full time.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Here's an idea for what to do with homeopathic medicine the next time someone offers or gives some to you: empty the contents into your plants to prove it's just water.

As for Legend's mom, perhaps you should offer her some Japanese algae and tell her it's detoxifying. Have a bit of a laugh at her expense.

[rjh01]

Or educate her on what it is. I am thinking about how dilute it is. Do not lecture her, ask her questions and make her find the answers. If she struggles to find answers then you can help her. If that does not convince her then nothing will.

[Reno]

I am thinking about how dilute it is.

1 molecule of poison ivy in a pool of water the size of the universe, shaken not stirred.

I am not exaggerating .

[arthwollipot]

TO LINDA, SKEPTICHICK & BIOMORPH: regarding the whole male birth control stuff, I'd never speak about my...sex life with her. Even mentioning it at all. Just nup. Not with my family. Way too prudish. While I'm not, my family's atmosphere is.Sounds like the perfect way to shake them up and get their attention. Casually mention something about your sex life totally unexpectedly, smile, then walk out of the room. Hopefully they'll be too jawdropped to call you on it immediately, and it'll give them a chance to think about what you actually said.

No, I'm not actually suggesting you do this. :D

[Mahatma Kane Jeeves]

She'd not shut up if I refused ... Then get pissed off, then yell, then take my "privileges" away, be annoyed for the rest of the day and hold a grudge with me which I ... will have to bear for a solid 48 hours. I question a rebellion's worth.Hate to tell you this, but that's what being married is like, too.

[Blue Mountain]

From the Skeptic Wiki entry on Homeopathy (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Homeopathy)
If we start with a 1 molar solution, the homeopathic dilutions for various potencies result in:

12C: 1 atom per 1 2/3 litres

17C: 1 atom per 16 cubic kilometres

34C: 1 atom per 49.6 cubic AU (at its most distant, Pluto is 49.3 AU from the sun)

41C: 1 atom per 19.6 cubic lightyears

I've heard of homeopathic remedies up to 200C!

[Reno]

The crap my dad was taking (until I swallowed the lot) was marked 60C on the bottle.

[Legend]

From the Skeptic Wiki entry on Homeopathy (http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Homeopathy)


I've heard of homeopathic remedies up to 200C!

That's amazing. Thanks for the information, I'll certainly be taking this all into account.

Hate to tell you this, but that's what being married is like, too.

I shall avoid it at all costs.

Sounds like the perfect way to shake them up and get their attention. Casually mention something about your sex life totally unexpectedly, smile, then walk out of the room. Hopefully they'll be too jawdropped to call you on it immediately, and it'll give them a chance to think about what you actually said.

No, I'm not actually suggesting you do this. :D

I was reading through that thinking "no way". Then smiled when I read the last comment. I could just imagine doing that. :eye-poppi

Or educate her on what it is. I am thinking about how dilute it is. Do not lecture her, ask her questions and make her find the answers. If she struggles to find answers then you can help her. If that does not convince her then nothing will.

I promise you I'll be doing this. New Year's tonight so I have ages to have a chat with her. Her ignorance may be too big of a wall to climb over, mind you.

Here's an idea for what to do with homeopathic medicine the next time someone offers or gives some to you: empty the contents into your plants to prove it's just water.

As for Legend's mom, perhaps you should offer her some Japanese algae and tell her it's detoxifying. Have a bit of a laugh at her expense.

:D

The only reason I say it is because you get to see your mates 6 hours a day 5 days a week, which is kind of hard to do once you're working full time.

Meh. Familiarity breeds contempt. That's merely one upside to being at school, if it the highlight of your life, it must have more positives than simply seeing your mates often.

I don't recommend actually doing this but, since the "homeopathic birth control" idea has so much baggage, Legend might instead try insisting on using "homeopathic soap" for all household cleansing chores such as dishwashing, laundry, and hand washing. This can easily be made at home by taking some dirt or grimy rinse water and diluting it to 50X or so.

I also hear that a mere 20X preparation of Coca-Cola makes a marvelous homeopathic toothpaste.

Respectfully,
Myriad

I like this idea. I don't think I'll use it, but you never know. I might try to keep you guys up to date on all of this. We'll see...

My parents are both knee deep in woo, which is part of the reason I try to avoid them whenever possible.

An example:

My father, no word of a lie, believes that "America invented AIDS to destroy Africa."

Pressed for proof, my father accused me of being "brainwashed."

My Dad has crazy thoughts like that too. Although, perhaps not that far. That's pretty damn amazing though. It's one of the typical cases of people who are fundamentally skeptical. They get so caught up in not being tricked, or being right, that they become a sponge to bias and craziness.

My mother is way into woo. My father suffers occasionally from arthritis in his legs. My mother convinced him to start wearing copper bracelets, then magnets. He is now never without his copper bracelet inlaid with magnetic strips. Whenever his arthritis flares up, he throws the bracelet away and buys a new one because his has 'run out of energy'. After a few days wearing his new one, the arthritis calms down. Nothing I can say convinces either of them that his arthritis will flare up and down regardless of the bracelet.

He started taking homeopathic pills. At dinner one evening, he seemed to be in a fair amount of discomfort and took a homeopathic pill. I asked him why he didn't take two or more and maybe they would work faster. He told me that he had to be careful not to overdose as the medicine was small doses of a toxic poison the same as arthritis and you cured like with like. I asked to see his bottle. When he gave it to me, I checked that it was a purely homeopathic medicine. The label said Rhus toxicodendron (I guess that's where the quack pointed to the 'toxic' part and told my dad the nonsense.)

I asked my dad how many would constitute an overdose, and he said that the 'doctor' told him no more than one every four hours. I estimated there were between 400 and 500 tiny pills in the bottle and asked my dad if that was about right. He said the bottle had 500 in it when he bought it and he had been using them for a few days. I calmly tipped the whole bottle into my mouth (they really are tiny) and swallowed the lot with a big glass of wine. My dad's jaw dropped and I nonchalantly continued with my dinner.

My dad didn't renew his supply. He still wears the bracelet and I haven't figured out a way to deal with that.

That is hilarious and awesome. Just marvellous. I'm thinking of buying a homeopathic product and consuming it in front of her. We'll see...

Legend, get the book "Trick or Treatment" by Simon Singh & Edzard Ernst. Read it, then show it to your mum. See if it opens her eyes ;)

I might just have to check this out.



THE stuff she wants me to take: Quentakehl.

"10 mL Penicillum grablum (I'm lead to believe this is mould :confused:) 5x in a base of purified water."

More information here. (http://www.biomedicine.com/itemDetail.cfml?id=162)

Thanks for all the replies.

Alex.

[Legend]

I'm trying to find the xyzC on the bottle, leaflet or box, but can't. Damn I need to find out.

Alex.

[rjh01]

Another option is to take the bottle and drink the lot. 5X means 1 part in 10,000 so there will be a little (0.001 ml actually) in the bottle.

This link indicates the main ingredient is harmless http://www.immunocapinvitrosight.com/dia_templates/ImmunoCAP/Allergen____28165.aspx

What do others think to this idea?

[rjh01]

5X means that they dilute it by 10, 5 times.

[Legend]

Thankyou so much for your help. I'll be forwarding that information later on.

If I drank $30 worth of water, she'd kill me. I'll pay for my own and prove a point.

Alex.

[Reno]

To make your point, go buy another 3 or 4 bottles of the same remedy, and drink all of the bottles one after the other in front of your mother. Then ask her if she thinks you'll need an ambulance.

[Legend]

^^ :eek: $90!

I wish I could, but I'd rather more wisely spend my money.

I truly wish I could.

Alex.

[Reno]

Fair enough.

Try writhing around on the floor in agony and scream at your mother that only a homeopathic cure for your ailment will do and she MUST go get it immediately even though it costs 30 bucks a bottle. Then when she buys it, drink the lot and demand another one instantly. Repeat until your mother accepts that the homeopathic (rule 10) has no effect.

[Legend]

:D :D

Hilarious idea.

I have a big question.

Another option is to take the bottle and drink the lot. 5X means 1 part in 10,000 so there will be a little (0.001 ml actually) in the bottle.

Skeptic wiki writed this:

There are a number of potencies that are used by homeopaths. X and D mean diluted by a factor of ten each time so 5X and 5D mean diluted by a factor of 100000.

Are you missing a zero? Or am I missing a brain? That passage from Skeptic Wiki is confusing.

Alex.

[Reno]

It doesn't matter whether it's 1C or 200C on the label. If there is no active ingredient other than the homeopathic remedy, then there is no active ingredient in it.

[Reno]

Or X or D or S or whatever other 'scientific' character they put on it.

My math may be wrong, but I thnk 5X(C/D/whatever) means 5 to the pwer of 10 which would be 50000000000 (5 thousand million? 5 Billion? 5 trillion? 5 zillion? Who knows? I'll never win that amount on the lottery.

[Legend]

I see.

Other people's opinion?

I'm curious to hear how rjh01 got his number.

Thanks for your help guys.

Alex.

[rjh01]

As I said above. They dilute something by 10, 5 times.

1st time there is 1 in 10
2nd time there is 1 in 100
3rd time there is 1 in 1,000
4th time there is 1 in 10,000
5th time there is 1 in 100,000 of the starting mixture.

Looks like I was out by 10 above. So there is only 0.0001 ml actually in the bottle.

She already has spent the $30, so drinking what she gives you will not cost her any more. Once drunk you should ask to go to the doctor to get a proper diagnosis.

[rjh01]

Or X or D or S or whatever other 'scientific' character they put on it.

My math may be wrong, but I thnk 5X(D/whatever) means 10 to the power of 5 Who cares? I'll never win that amount on the lottery.


Your post was not quite right. So I fixed it above.

5C means 5 to the power of 100
30C means 30 to the power of 100. This is a very big number.

[Drs_Res]

If you can get her to watch a web video, try showing her "The Search for the Chimera" lecture Randi did at Princeton in 2001. Can be found here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4665376168764022836
Or a direct link from the Princeton website: http://www.princeton.edu/WebMedia/lectures/20011016randiTV7300K.asx

It's a 2 hour 10 min. lecture, but if you start at about 33:00 minutes into it he discusses homeopathy.

I like the entire lecture, and you should watch the whole thing at some point if/when you get the time.

[Legend]

If I find time through the holidays, I'll make sure I do. Thankyou.

Also, thanks to rjh01 for helping me out again!

Alex.

[Mojo]

I've heard of homeopathic remedies up to 200C!


200C: one atom in 10320 universes (assuming all the universes are about the same size as ours).

[Mojo]

To make your point, go buy another 3 or 4 bottles of the same remedy, and drink all of the bottles one after the other in front of your mother. Then ask her if she thinks you'll need an ambulance.


homoeopaths have a get-out for that one: they claim that any amount of remedy taken at about the same time still counts as a single dose, and that it's the potency (i.e. the degree of dilution) rather than the amount of remedy that determines the size of the effect.

[rjh01]

Ask a homeopath how to take an overdose. Post the question on a homeopath forum.

Their reply - Are you a skeptic? (or similar. May mention this site).

[Blue Mountain]

Your post was not quite right. So I fixed it above.

5C means 5 to the power of 100
30C means 30 to the power of 100. This is a very big number.

Actually, nX (where n=some number) means 1 / 10n. For example:
1X = 1/101 = 1 part in 10
2X = 1/102 = 1 part in 100
5X = 1/105 = 1 part in 100,000
10X = 1/1010 = 1 part in 10,000,000,000
20X = 1/1020 = 1 part in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000

nC means 1 / 102n
1C = 1/102 = 1 part in 100
2C = 1/104 = 1 part in 10,000
5C = 1/1010 = 1 part in 10,000,000,000
10C = 1/1020 = 1 part in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000
20C = 1/1040 = 1 part in a number too ridiculous to write out

[Legend]

Thanks for the above.

It really makes you wonder how on Earth these people get away with this. More importantly, how people buy this crap. I hope one day humans have a built-in BS detector, God knows some of us need one...

Alex.

[tesscaline]

Thanks for the above.

It really makes you wonder how on Earth these people get away with this. More importantly, how people buy this crap. I hope one day humans have a built-in BS detector, God knows some of us need one...

Alex.
If anyone ever invents one, I will be the first one in line to have my entire family and group of friends "upgraded" with an "aftermarket" version! :)

[Legend]

I'll be in 2nd. My Aunties need one desperately.

Alex.

[Safe-Keeper]

I told her I might as well drizzle water over it, to which she maturely replied, "stop being such a skeptic". No offense to your mom, who's probably a great person and all, but this is just sad. I encountered something like this once, and it was annoying then, too. This, along with certain religious people and psychics and whatever openly throwing logic and reason out the window... it's sad. I mean, I wouldn't go around telling people that I was kicking my intelligence or my ability to read out the door, and say when questioned that "oh, but what I do is unintelligent", as if that was some sort of excuse. So... how on earth do they get away with it.

It really makes you wonder how on Earth these people get away with this. More importantly, how people buy this crap. I hope one day humans have a built-in BS detector, God knows some of us need one..."A BS detector? Stop being such a skeptic!".

Yeah, that'd work.

[Legend]

I completely understand your point. I'm not "offended" or anything else at all, other than agreeing. It really is "sad".

This is why I avoid arguments with her. It appears that most of the time she simply blurts, without actually thinking. When I try to get her to understand why what she said sounds so ridiculous, she shuns it and ignores it. It's very typical.

That's why I'm training my brothers. ;)

It's true though, and the middle brother (I'm oldest of three) is starting to gain interest in what I'm saying. We were at a restuarant and somehow the youngest ("the youngest", that makes me laugh, I should call him Number 3) and I were having a minor disagreement. I told him he's making a "straw man".

After an inquiry by my other brother near my mother ( :cool: ) inquired quickly what I meant. This lead to a long discussion about ad hominems, cum hoc ergo propter hoc, argumentum ad baculum and argument from ignorance, among other things. He's slowly becoming more and more observant. I'm still letting him "think for himself" though. I'm merely giving my opinion and why.

Alex.

[rjh01]

Your family, Legend, is one I hope is common. The parents have far more irrational beliefs than the children. If you can educate your younger brothers than you have done well.

[Legend]

I'm glad.

They both are slowly starting to challenge other people's beliefs with a decent amount of thought and correctness, which is good to see.

Neither believe in any form of wooism, except the issue of the existence of a God or omniscient being, which I'm leaving out of my subtle program. I'll leave that up to them. It's such a huge matter in any person's life (where the entire human race has come from) that I don't want to interfere too much. It could create bias.

Ah yes, and, as a member (coughSenexcough) has candidly pointed out to me in a PM, it's better if people called me "Alex", rather than "Legend". ;)

Once again, thanks for your endless help. It truly is appreciated.

Alex.

[ponderingturtle]

Join the club.

My mother is particularly drawn to nonsense (she does believe in a variety of eye-roll inducing things but isn't invested much at all in them) but lately she's begun to believe in the "detoxifying effects" of algae. It's intended to be used for weight-loss and supposed to be popular in Japan, allegedly.

I tried looking for information online about thisbut could find nothing, not even in the Skeptic's Dictionary. It must be an obscure belief.

How is the algae used? Is it smeared on the skin, eaten or given as an enema?

What is it with quacks and enema's anyway?

[George152]

How is the algae used? Is it smeared on the skin, eaten or given as an enema?

What is it with quacks and enema's anyway?

An obvious obsession !

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

How is the algae used? Is it smeared on the skin, eaten or given as an enema?

What is it with quacks and enema's anyway?

Eaten.

Must be tasty. :p

[Legend]

I have friends, I don't need enemas.



I can't help myself with puns...no matter how terrible...

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

...That's why I'm training my brothers. ;)

It's true though, and the middle brother (I'm oldest of three) is starting to gain interest in what I'm saying. We were at a restuarant and somehow the youngest ("the youngest", that makes me laugh, I should call him Number 3) and I were having a minor disagreement. I told him he's making a "straw man".

After an inquiry by my other brother near my mother ( :cool: ) inquired quickly what I meant. This lead to a long discussion about ad hominems, cum hoc ergo propter hoc, argumentum ad baculum and argument from ignorance, among other things. He's slowly becoming more and more observant. I'm still letting him "think for himself" though. I'm merely giving my opinion and why.

Alex.Alex, you're a legend.

[Legend]

Hence my username.

I kid. It's a family joke...long story.

I have no intention of stopping; plus, if he listened to his Aunties and Uncles about these things, who knows where it would lead him...

Thankyou for that comment.

Alex.

[Kuko 4000]

Alex, the book 'Trick or Treatment' gets my vote as well, excellent stuff :)

[Legend]

Thankyou.

Even more reason to look into it.

Alex.

[TheSkepticCanuck]

So, by the beliefs of homeopathy, if I take a single dosage of a "treatment", and toss it into the ocean, then all the oceans on the entire planet would be a perfectly valid source of the "treatment"? So, we can take 1 of each "treatment" and dump it into the ocean (it doesn't really matter which one, since they are all pretty much connected), and thus put them out of business? Sounds like a good plan to me!

[CORed]

use it an show you mom its not working :)

Well, the cold sore is going to go away in a few days, whether he uses the homeopathic remedy or not. If he uses the homeopathic remedy, his mother will conclude that it worked when the cold sore goes away.

[Legend]

^^ The ultimate opportunity for psychohomeopaths.

Alex.

[Mojo]

So, by the beliefs of homeopathy, if I take a single dosage of a "treatment", and toss it into the ocean, then all the oceans on the entire planet would be a perfectly valid source of the "treatment"? So, we can take 1 of each "treatment" and dump it into the ocean (it doesn't really matter which one, since they are all pretty much connected), and thus put them out of business? Sounds like a good plan to me!


No, you've got to do the serial dilution, and the magic shaking as well, and then it has to be prescribed by a homoeopath (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1771411&postcount=1) (something to do with quantum flapdoodle (http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/4/1/7)), and even then it won't work until they've stumbled upon the right remedy (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3413927&postcount=1). As has repeatedly been observed, homeopathy is a set of excuses rather than a system of medicine.

[Tamazon]

My mother is also a member of the woo club and I shudder when I recall the various concoctions that I was forced to consume. She didn't go for the nice pre-packaged stuff either. She was a do-it-yourselfer and I remember some sort of large, flat, slimy mushroom thing that was soaked for several days in who knows what and then having to drink the who knows what. Seriously, barf. Sadly it was not hallucinogenic and I have no idea what the desired outcome was supposed to be as I was quite young.

I'm almost 40 and she is still sending things home with me. They usually sit in my fridge until they just eventually get tossed out. She knows my views on such matters but is hoping that I will one day see the light. Sigh.

[TheSkepticCanuck]

No, you've got to do the serial dilution, and the magic shaking as well, and then it has to be prescribed by a homoeopath (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1771411&postcount=1) (something to do with quantum flapdoodle (http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/4/1/7)), and even then it won't work until they've stumbled upon the right remedy (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3413927&postcount=1). As has repeatedly been observed, homeopathy is a set of excuses rather than a system of medicine.

Well, I have realized the error of my suggestion, after seeing a part of a lecture done by James Randi. Apparently, based on the rules of Homeopathy, a potion becomes more potent the more it is diluted, so dumping it into the ocean would make it far too potent to be safe. According to them, that is. Therefore, I guess, according to them, a drop of cyanide in the ocean would make it quite deadly, but a gallon of it would be perfectly safe? Trying to keep the "logic" of their system straight gives me a headache. Too much silliness and contradictions.

[Legend]

People: what idiots.

Alex.

[Mojo]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o

[Legend]

:jaw:

[Legend]

8KbLHii8M2A

Alex.

P.S. What would be a practical example of a dilution of 1 part in 100 000?

[kitakaze]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/cpttripps/thestupiditburns.jpg

(pic link from Bad Astronomer via Astrophotographer)

[kitakaze]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C0c5yClip4o

From Mojo's link:

"Every single one of us vibrates with a certain vibration. So we either vibrate with a plant, a mineral, or an animal."

It's really bad all the way but after that it's like she starts channeling Swedish Chef.

Bork bork der floo der calicarbonica bork. Bork bork man of your word der floo di bork.

That woman is a medical physician. It's scary. I once dated a girl who was a doctor and had a wooish air about her. She didn't have the bork borks anywhere nearly as bad as Dr. Werner there.

[Safe-Keeper]

Sort of OT... a friend of a friend of mine has been missing for nearly a month now, and in desperation, they turned to a 'psychic' (why is it that the media never refer to these people as 'alleged psychics'?). He/she was reached by phone and charged 30 NOK (4.36 USD, Google calculator estimate) a minute to tell them something that at best is pure guesswork.

Disgusting.

[Legend]

I just recently had a "verbal exchange" with my Mum.

Among other ridiculous, fallacious, hypocritical, ignorant and gobsmacking tripe, she actually resides safely with the whole, "I'm an adult" crap.

Never, ever, in my life, have I met someone with the capacity to bullsh!t to the extent that woman does. I should ring up my local football club and ask them if they were thinking of moving their goal posts..."I have the perfect person".

I swear to God that woman is the most airy-fairy person on this planet. The worst part is actually that she truly believes that she is better equipped, due to her age (among other completely vomit-inducing phrases), to argue any point at all.

I honestly believe that if she met a doctor, one iota younger than her, she'd doubt what he says with this stupid, gleeful, ignorant grin as if she has somehow satisfied her juvenile mind. No one puts as small amount of thought into things as her.

What I'm writing comes off as harsh and unfair. It is not. Live with this woman, converse with her, you'll find the same.

Not only that but she is so stupidly deep in her own retarded mind-games and thought processes that she is beyond repair. You cannot have any form of civilised conversation with her, where words are reciprocally respected, because JESUS, I KNOW NOTHING I'M ONLY 16!!!!!!!!! CHRIST!!!!!!! WHAT WOULD I KNOW??????? NUSINK!!!!!!!!!! :mgduh

I never submit to penetrating the sane boundaries of one exclamation mark, I feel this time welcomes it.

Apart from the fact that she is solidly without a single brain cell, she persists to the fact that I think she'd drive psychiatrists insane. No one is as right as her. Don't you understand? :bwall

So she rides the saddle of this stupid, ignorant air of supremity, completely nonchalant to any inkling that she could be trumped by someone younger than herself.

She claims innocence by actually using occurrences which happened many, many moons ago. Completely, not at all, does she actually stay on topic. "Who drives you to the bus stop every day, Alex?" :rolleyes: "We were talking about how long I was on the computer for, Mum."

Say I'm talking a little louder, she'll call me shouting. In a matter of seconds, I can get her to start shouting; not resulting from insults or unfair assumptions, simply through frustration that she doesn't understand what I'm saying, or is epically losing. It's actually quite humorous.

Say I'm ungrateful or the typical teenager. Nope. You have my word. Hell, I never go to parties despite being asked by mates. I'm at home most of the time. I love to learn independently. I love thoughtful discussions. I love philosophy...but I'm young and naive. Despite being as fully responsible and obeying as I strive to be, nothing at all will persuade her to move from her childish ideas.

For the first time, we, as a family were going to sit down and watch "The Dark Night". More of a "boys" thing, yeah? I'd agree, however, she chose the movie. Being completely disinterested for the duration of the movie, rather than sit there and try to enjoy it, move out of the room or somewhere where she'd be interested or some other polite and mature way of going about it, she actually sat there starting conversations, talking, pushing, prodding and laughing at me for the entire movie despite multiple attempts at telling her to please be quiet, by everyone watching the movie.

This happened to the point where I was completely lost as to what was going on in the plot, that I walked out of the room before the end, hoping to watch it again in peace.

What's more, is that if we peep while she's watching some stupid ***** drama, with no plot at all (Christ knows she must muster up every possible cognitive cell in her body to understand that "IT'S HER SON") well put it this way: :flamed: .

So much more to write, so little time.

Who needs a diary when you have the JREF?

I'm here to cop every word of criticism you have for me, but the above is honest direct and as a result of nothing else but a need to share it with someone who can understand.

Alex.

[Jonquill]

Lol at you Alex. I think we all feel that way about our mums sometimes. I agree the "I know better than you, just because I'm older" line is particually tiresome especially when they are saying something daft.
My mum isn't into woo but she does have some issues about race and she absolutely cannot see the irony of her whinging about black migrants coming to Australia when she herself is a white migrant :D

[Legend]

Indeed. I'm happy you found my write-up humorous. That was its intention, along with an insight for you guys.

I dunno...sometimes...

Alex.

[Miss_Kitt]

Alex -- First of all, thank you for being such a neat person! You give me hope for the future. You sometimes make me laugh while reading your posts, and that's always a plus; but you also seem to really be thoughtful about your world.

Being a teenager is, by its nature, stressful and rife with conflict. It is the time when parents and offspring separate into different beings; when the rules of engagement, so to speak, of the family change. Just that would make it a tough time, but throw in the hormonal rollercoaster, and it's borderline insanity for about 6 years. (Which reminds me, any chance your Mum is menopausal? I can't speak for all women, but I know I have my crazy days when it takes all of my willpower to not get way too upset over nothing. N-o-t-h-i-n-g!)

Continue to nurture your knowledge of what is and isn't valid argument, and accept that the place to practice these strategies is not in direct opposition to your folks. I experience the wrench of trying to see my daughter as a real, capable 9-year-old and not a toddler--and it's so very hard! She's 9, she can go get something from the other side of the park by herself...and yet I find myself watching her furtively, making sure that Nothing Bad Happens. It's just part of being a Mom. (Evolutionary pressures would weed out the offspring of underprotective mothers a lot faster than 'overprotective' ones.)

Feel free to come in to the Forum and talk; we're here. Though you might, for privacy purposes, want to put the thread into the Community area.

Here, have a hug from a middle-aged American lady!!! :hug

Miss Kitt

[Legend]

Alex -- First of all, thank you for being such a neat person! You give me hope for the future. You sometimes make me laugh while reading your posts, and that's always a plus; but you also seem to really be thoughtful about your world.

Hey, thanks!

I'm very uplifted and honoured by your comments. I'm very glad I can make you laugh, but you can still take me seriously and respect what I write.

Your words are very much appreciated. Thank you.

(Which reminds me, any chance your Mum is menopausal? I can't speak for all women, but I know I have my crazy days when it takes all of my willpower to not get way too upset over nothing. N-o-t-h-i-n-g!)

No idea.

Hell I ain't asking her! ;) :D

Continue to nurture your knowledge of what is and isn't valid argument, and accept that the place to practice these strategies is not in direct opposition to your folks. I experience the wrench of trying to see my daughter as a real, capable 9-year-old and not a toddler--and it's so very hard! She's 9, she can go get something from the other side of the park by herself...and yet I find myself watching her furtively, making sure that Nothing Bad Happens. It's just part of being a Mom. (Evolutionary pressures would weed out the offspring of underprotective mothers a lot faster than 'overprotective' ones.)

Most certainly. Thanks for the "support" of my learning. Very nice to hear/read...you get it.

Feel free to come in to the Forum and talk; we're here. Though you might, for privacy purposes, want to put the thread into the Community area.

I'll take that, certainly, into consideration.

Here, have a hug from a middle-aged American lady!!! :hug

Hug accepted.

Thanks.

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

Alex, you rock. Your mum, not so much. It's a pity your at the other end of the country, or I'd take you out for a coffee and a rant.

[Legend]

Thanks, arthwollipot.

You guys are great people.

Alex.

[Reno]

Alex,

my girlfriend's son is 12 and is a geek (love the geeks). He is constantly curious about the universe and how things work and is forever asking me questions. This year for Xmas I bought him a telescope so that we can observe the sky together and he can see a bit better that bright thing in the sky that his papa says is skylab (it's not), and work out what it actually is.

If he turns out to be like you when he is 16, I will be proud to have been part of his growth and development. You do, indeed, rock. If you ever visit Scotland, the drinks are on me.

[Legend]

Well geez :blush: . Thankyou so much. Everyone's comments are just so nice and unexpected; makes me feel honoured. Thankyou all.

I have respect for most "geeks". While I'm not 'one' myself, nor are any of my mates 'one', I think that if it means curiosity and a respect for knowledge and learning, then it's a great thing (Geekism).

Thanks again.

Alex.

[George152]

Thanks, arthwollipot.

You guys are great people.

Alex.

:-)
We were children and now most of us are parents so we've been through both sides of the journey that you have embarked upon.
Mothers may not be always right but they're always mothers.

[Legend]

Indeed. That's why advice here is usually a good way to go. So long as I don't get too carried away. :D

Thanks.

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

I have respect for most "geeks". While I'm not 'one' myself, nor are any of my mates 'one', I think that if it means curiosity and a respect for knowledge and learning, then it's a great thing (Geekism).That's actually a very good broad definition of geekism.

Definitions of geek abound. Wikipedia has an extensive discussion of Geek[/i], but usually, you know if you're a geek.

Some say that geekism is directed towards a particular pursuit or hobby - one can be a science fiction geek, or a roleplaying geek, or a computer geek. An "unfocused" geek is actually a nerd. But "nerd" is still usually derogatory, whereas geekism has, in the last decade, become cool. My own definition (which I admit is not widely accepted) of the difference between a nerd and a geek is that nerds don't have friends. Geeks have friends, but they're all geeks.

If you want to find out how much of a geek you are, take [URL="http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html"]The Geek Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek). :) (I'm 49.90138% - Super Geek)

[Legend]

I got: 7.49507% - Poser

Told ya'!

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

Okay, you're not a geek. :) We can fix that.

[Uncayimmy]

There's nothing inherently wrong with pulling the "I'm older" bit. The problem is that it's done far too often, at the wrong times, and in the wrong way. When it's done reluctantly, pay attention. Sometimes it does boil down to, "Look, I'm gonna have to ask you to trust me on this. You see it one way based on your experience, and I see it another way. There's no way to prove either of us right, but I'm asking you to trust my advice because I've had more experience."

If somebody who's never pulled the "I'm older" bit on you before presents it to you that way after an extensive discussion, my advice is to pay attention. It might be beneficial.

However, when it's really just a matter of being right or wrong about something in some silly argument, just blow it off. There's a difference between claiming to be right because you're older and asking someone to trust their experience over yours because they have had more.

BTW, did you ever do the pebbles in the mouth thing?

[tesscaline]

I got: 7.49507% - Poser

Told ya'!

Alex.Hehe. You're too young for most of those questions anyway.

I, on the other hand, scored a 51.08481% - Super Geek

I think I got lots of extra points for being female...

[arthwollipot]

Hehe. You're too young for most of those questions anyway.Agreed. I think the test needs to be updated to account for web 2.0.

[Legend]

Okay, you're not a geek. :) We can fix that.

:eye-poppi No, no, no...I'm fine with my ungeekiness. ;)

There's nothing inherently wrong with pulling the "I'm older" bit. The problem is that it's done far too often, at the wrong times, and in the wrong way. When it's done reluctantly, pay attention. Sometimes it does boil down to, "Look, I'm gonna have to ask you to trust me on this. You see it one way based on your experience, and I see it another way. There's no way to prove either of us right, but I'm asking you to trust my advice because I've had more experience."

If somebody who's never pulled the "I'm older" bit on you before presents it to you that way after an extensive discussion, my advice is to pay attention. It might be beneficial.

However, when it's really just a matter of being right or wrong about something in some silly argument, just blow it off. There's a difference between claiming to be right because you're older and asking someone to trust their experience over yours because they have had more.

BTW, did you ever do the pebbles in the mouth thing?

I completely agree with anything you've said. I have been given the "experience" thing and have listened, to the right people at the right time (as judged by myself as best I can). Some people just use it incorrectly and as an all expenses paid trip out of the argument.

I never put pebbles in my mouth, but I did do some weird dance/spinning thing which she just shook her head, sighed and laughed in an almost reluctant way.



One of the questions on there (Geek Test) was about the "Mensa Test". I'd never heard of it, so I ran a Google search. I'm doing the first part of it and I'm on 22/33. 19+ is the last category for that test, which states that 19+ means you're a "Genius". :cool: I've only just started the second test (I'll try to finish the first later) and I'm going steadily, at 7/24. 20+ means "Sharp Minded (probably a Genius)".

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

:eye-poppi No, no, no...I'm fine with my ungeekiness. ;)

...


One of the questions on there (Geek Test) was about the "Mensa Test". I'd never heard of it, so I ran a Google search. I'm doing the first part of it and I'm on 22/33. 19+ is the last category for that test, which states that 19+ means you're a "Genius". :cool: I've only just started the second test (I'll try to finish the first later) and I'm going steadily, at 7/24. 20+ means "Sharp Minded (probably a Genius)".

Alex.See? You're already more geeky than you were a moment ago, because now you can tick the box that says you've done the Mensa test!

See? Geek you may not be, but proto-geek you have become!

[Legend]

ARGHHHHHHHHHHH! The little white cross in the red box ain't workin'! It's frozen!

Ah, there we go.

Mensa Test? What are you talking about?

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

You can't fool us, Alex. Embrace your inner geek.

[Legend]

Ewwww. NO!

You're like the Dark Side...change your username to DARTHwollipot.

WHAT AM I SAYING?!

Alex.

P.S. My mates would eat my head if I turned Geekish.

[Reno]

The geeks will rule the earth. (they probably already do)

[Legend]

Like Bill "Rich-A**" Gates says:

“Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.”

Although geeks/nerds...different.

Alex.

[Legend]

Arthwollipot.

Whereabouts in Australia are you at? Out of curiosity alone.

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

Canberra.

[Legend]

Awesome.

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

Canberra's awesome? That's honestly the first time I've ever heard anyone who doesn't live in Canberra say that.

[Damien Evans]

It's the first time I've heard anyone who wasn't insane say it.

[rjh01]

Anyone who does not live in Canberra is insane as it is the best city in the world to live in. So yes, Damien, you may have had a few people who are insane give you their opinions.

[Legend]

Living in Canberra, I think, would be pretty nice.

Alex.

[Skeptic]

Here's the deal. I'm scared I might be coming down with a cold sore on my lip. Questioning why I was applying Tea Tree Oil to my lip, my Mum decided she knew what to do. She gave me some homeopathic cr@p which literally tastes like nothing.
Alex.

Threathen suicide. Tell her that the next time she buys some homeopathic medicine, you're going to take the entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills at once...

[Legend]

:D

Definitely a possibility.

Alex.

[Hawk one]

Ewwww. NO!

You're like the Dark Side...change your username to DARTHwollipot.
Only a geek would spot the connection on how easily we can prove that Arthwollipot is evil. :D

[Damien Evans]

Living in Canberra, I think, would be pretty nice.

Alex.

sure, if you like roundabouts...

[ponderingturtle]

That's actually a very good broad definition of geekism.

Definitions of geek abound. Wikipedia has an extensive discussion of Geek[/i], but usually, you know if you're a geek.

Some say that geekism is directed towards a particular pursuit or hobby - one can be a science fiction geek, or a roleplaying geek, or a computer geek. An "unfocused" geek is actually a nerd. But "nerd" is still usually derogatory, whereas geekism has, in the last decade, become cool. My own definition (which I admit is not widely accepted) of the difference between a nerd and a geek is that nerds don't have friends. Geeks have friends, but they're all geeks.

If you want to find out how much of a geek you are, take [URL="http://www.innergeek.us/geek.html"]The Geek Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek). :) (I'm 49.90138% - Super Geek)

Wow I only got 35%. But it is weighted to certain sorts of geek

[arthwollipot]

sure, if you like roundabouts...:) That is a valid observation. Actually, they've started taking out the most problematic roundabouts. The one at the intersection of the Monaro Highway and Morsehead Drive/Pialligo Ave near the airport has been completely removed as it suffered heavily from flow exclusion at certain times of the day. There's a set of traffic lights there now. The big roundabout at Drakeford Dr/Isabella Dr now has a set of part-time traffic lights added to stop the flow of traffic from Tuggeranong Business Park periodically.

Yes, Canberra has a lot of roundabouts. But the air is clean and there are green belts through every suburb. I've heard that international visitors flying into Sydney often remark about how much greenery there is in the city. Canberra makes Sydney look like a concrete wasteland.

[Legend]

Bingo!

Alex.

[IMST]

Threathen suicide. Tell her that the next time she buys some homeopathic medicine, you're going to take the entire bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills at once...

Wouldn't a more credible suicide threat be to take half a dose?

[rjh01]

Alex - What did you win? What happened?

[Legend]

What happened?

Well, not much. I never took the stuff again, not from a rebellion, but simply because she, for some reason, didn't really care if I took it. She slowed down her efforts. So, yeh, nothing came of it at all, really.

It wasn't even a cold sore, anyway.

Alex.

[arthwollipot]

So not so much of a win as a cessation of hostilities then?

[Jonquill]

You say it wasn't a coldsore, instead of admitting that Mum's Magic Medicine cured it in just one application ;)

[Jonquill]

I was just thinking maybe your Mum was angry because she'd just found out that she'd wasted $30 on the stuff.

My daughter bought one of those gizmos where you put electrodes on your muscles and a current goes through them and make them twitch. I told her I was going to look them up on the 'net and see if they were woo and she very angrily replied why the hell would she want to know that seeing as she had already spent $100 on the thing.

Anyway I told her the device wasn't entirely woo to placate her although I'm not really sure.

[Legend]

So not so much of a win as a cessation of hostilities then?

I never said that I won. Did I? :confused:

You say it wasn't a coldsore, instead of admitting that Mum's Magic Medicine cured it in just one application

Bah! He's on to me!

Alex.

[Legend]

I was just thinking maybe your Mum was angry because she'd just found out that she'd wasted $30 on the stuff.

Nay, she'd never concede she was wrong. She has a very capable ability to comfort herself by thinking whatever she wants without justifying it.

Alex.

[tesscaline]

I was just thinking maybe your Mum was angry because she'd just found out that she'd wasted $30 on the stuff.

My daughter bought one of those gizmos where you put electrodes on your muscles and a current goes through them and make them twitch. I told her I was going to look them up on the 'net and see if they were woo and she very angrily replied why the hell would she want to know that seeing as she had already spent $100 on the thing.

Anyway I told her the device wasn't entirely woo to placate her although I'm not really sure.They're not entirely woo... I mean, physical therapists do use them for physical therapy. They work great as a substitute for massage on complex muscle groups (back and shoulders for example). Unfortunately, they don't do everything people like to claim they do (like make belly fat melt away).

[Jonquill]

She was going to use it on the sore muscles she had after rugby, I don't know that it made much difference. I suppose it would work better if you believed in it anyway.

[tesscaline]

She was going to use it on the sore muscles she had after rugby, I don't know that it made much difference. I suppose it would work better if you believed in it anyway.Those machines (I cannot for the life of me remember what they're called) do actually work for relieving muscle tension (and spasm) and the soreness resulting from that tension, just like a massage does. It's actual medicine, not just some weird woo theory (I'm too brain dead to search for studies at the moment, but I can try to find some later if you like). They've been used in physical therapy for several decades, and prescribed by physicians (actual doctors, not homeopaths or what have you).

Thing is, if you haven't been taught how to properly use it, it won't do anything, or worse, you could actually harm yourself (electricity + human being = risk). The electrodes can't just be placed anywhere, and knowing where to place them requires some anatomical instruction. Also, the consumer grade models (as opposed to the ones used by the medical industry) are generally cheap and poorly made. Coupled with the lack of training of the average consumer, they're pretty much worthless.

My ex husband suffered an extreme back injury 11 years ago and was prescribed a professional grade version of these types of machines as part of the treatment, and we were both trained on how to use it by a medically trained physical therapist. It did actually help him (and me, because I stole it to help with muscle tension in my shoulders). But of course, we were using it for its designed purpose (as in, not in replacement of ice treatment of muscle strain) as directed by a professional. It doesn't sound like thats the same situation as your daughter.

ETA -- They're called TENS units

[Jonquill]

No, I think hers is just a toy :) Sure looks cools to have things twitching by themselves though.

[tesscaline]

No, I think hers is just a toy :) Sure looks cools to have things twitching by themselves though.
Yeah :) it feels weird too.

[Gr8wight]

Start walking around with pebbles in your mouth and doing strange dances to no music. When you mum asks, tell her you believe it will work. When she says that's silly, tell her you're trying not to be a skeptic.

Way late to this thread, but I just had to say, this is the best advice ever offered on this forum. UncaYimmy=teh awesome.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I got a story.

I was on the subway home and a tiny old woman on the platform asked me for directions. I told her what train to take, how many stops and where to go from the station but she was having a lot of trouble following them (she was from Yonkers and hadn't been to the city in ages).

Being the do gooder that I am and since the place she was going was on the same stop as my apartment and the address was blocks from where I live, I offered to escort her there.

We were taking pleasantly until she revealed she was going to a naturopath. At first I decided not to say anything but when she mentioned it was in the same building as a reflexologist, chiropractor, hypnotherapist and something else, I couldn't hold my silence. I told her what quackery I thought naturopathy was, that they aren't physicians of any kind, that it's not scientifically proven, that they have murdered people and so on.

She: "Doctors have killed people!", "Naturopathy is about eating right and balance, yada, yada, yada", "What do you mean scientifically proven?", "You don't understand about toxins, yada, yada, yada".

I ended up letting it go and walking Gloria from Yonkers to the naturopath's very door (I didn't even know there was one in the neighborhood!) and wishing her good luck with her visit. Secretly, I thought that letting her get lost on the subway would have been better for her health and pocketbook.

You win some, you lose some. :(

[Locknar]

You win some, you lose some. :(
Yep....

[Miss_Kitt]

When my podiatrist sent me to a physical therapist for a foot problem, he immediately put together a plan that included: electrostim; ultrasound; cold laser; and ice massage. I have to tell you, I was extremely doubtful--but a quick check with Mayo clinic's wonderful online tools indicated there actually was some science behind these.

Long story short: I'll be damned if it didn't actually work! The scar tissue in my foot--visible on the CT and x-ray--was diminished; I have regained range of motion in my foot I had lost; I am ice skating again (albeit poorly). So not all of the weird-sounding tools are truly Woo. However, I'd have to get them from a trained professional, not some late-night ad or healthfood store...

I have also had electrostim for my back, and while I wouldn't describe it as comfortable, it really does work. In fact, the ideal setting seems to be just below the "Ouch!" threshold--that is, if it's not a bit uncomfortable, it's not doing its job. But you don't want it turned up enough to make the muscles resist...it's a learning process.

Sometimes I think I need to write a book on "How to Be an Effective Patient" in today's fast-changing medical climate.

Shout out to my Aussie pal Alex, Miss Kitt

[wardenclyffe]

At the risk of taking this thread deeper into its derail (perhaps a new one should be started), the fact that Miss Kitt received treatment from a trained professional rather than a late night ad is no guarantee that the treatment was valid.

It also doesn't mean it was invalid. I know nothing about any of the treatments she received, but I know that there are a lot of physical therapists who employ non-evidence-based treatments. My brother is a physical therapist and I am constantly amazed by how much the PT field uses Theraputic Touch (which is neither theraputic nor touch) and other such nonsense. My brother does not use this stuff, but he's constantly exposed to it. I think the PT field sees the kind of money that chiropractors make and they want in on the deal.

Ward

[wexer9]

I think what I said when my mother insisted I take some homeoathic medicine was "I'm losing my voice, but I'm not thirsty, thanks"
That's genius, I am so using that. :D

[Roadtoad]

Just something to consider, Alex:

The next time you talk to your actual, went-to-medical-school, board-certified, genuine doctor, mention what your mother is asking you to take for what ails ya. She might not listen to you, but she'll be almost certain to be obligated to listen to someone with the skill, knowledge, and ability to report her to the authorities that a doctor has.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Not unless she, like my mother, believes doctors are in the pockets of big business and the insurance firms, prescribe needless treatments to make themselves more money, are in on the conspiracy to quash alternative medicine and/or that they are incompetent and that they don't know what they are doing.

[NewtonTrino]

Little derail from the last page but I went through the geek test for kicks.

A very disappointing 48.52% making me a "super geek".