Finland was not a Nazi state

[moon1969]

So Finland was a Nazi State? And as or the Continuation War Finland had jews in the army during Continuation War. I would like that russians would admit that they started the Winter War. Finland was a victim of WW2. :mad:

[tomwaits]

Finland was a Children of Bodom state. :boxedin:

[hgc]

Did someone make a claim that Finland was a Nazi state, as opposed to being allied with a Nazi state?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I heard that Finland invited Hitler to come to Helsinki and present a workshop on "How to be a Nazi". Everyone went, and the country converted.

[Alareth]

moon, if I may ask, how old are you?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

moon, if I may ask, how old are you?

Physically or mentally?

[Tolls]

So Finland was a Nazi State? And as or the Continuation War Finland had jews in the army during Continuation War. I would like that russians would admit that they started the Winter War. Finland was a victim of WW2. :mad:

Um...(Tolls looks around)...who are you talking to?
:confused:

[paximperium]

Um...(Tolls looks around)...who are you talking to?
:confused:
Apparently to the people who think that Finland was a Nazi state....okay maybe he's talking to himself.

[ravdin]

You're so near to Russia
So far from Japan
Quite a long way from Cairo
Lots of miles from Vietnam.

Finland, Finland, Finland...
Finland has it all.

[Soapy Sam]

" was not..." ? You mean it is now?
Has anyone told Pillory?

[This Guy]

So Finland was a Nazi State? And as or the Continuation War Finland had jews in the army during Continuation War. I would like that russians would admit that they started the Winter War. Finland was a victim of WW2. :mad:

What country is Finland a state of? ;)

I'm in a state of confusion.

But at least it's not a Nazi state!

[sackett]

Oh yeah? Then how come they put swastikas on their airplanes?

Moon, moon,
Bright and shiny moon,
Why dontcha shine on me?

[Safe-Keeper]

Did someone make a claim that Finland was a Nazi state, as opposed to being allied with a Nazi state? He's refering to this, I believe:

At the time, Finland was crawling with Nazis. Russia went in to throw them out. I will always be grateful to Russia for that.

[Thunder]

Oh yeah? Then how come they put swastikas on their airplanes?

Moon, moon,
Bright and shiny moon,
Why dontcha shine on me?

yeah..whats up with this??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2935375212_4d723d41c7.jpg?v=0

hmmm????

[MG1962]

yeah..whats up with this??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2935375212_4d723d41c7.jpg?v=0

hmmm????

Any chance of showing some context to that photo?

[Thunder]

the Finnish air force used that as their symbol during WW2. this is a fact. just google "finland swastika" and look at the pics.

[Safe-Keeper]

yeah..whats up with this??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3218/2935375212_4d723d41c7.jpg?v=0Definetely a Nazi. The German pilots wore black boots, too.

Er (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#History).

And are those 50+ white pentagrams I see in the US flag?! It's a nation of Satanists, I tell you:D!

[Thunder]

Yeah. They had a swastika on their airplanes...during WW2 no less. but it has NOTHING to do with the nazis.

sure...right......whatever. delude yourself all you like.

[Slayhamlet]

the Finnish air force used that as their symbol during WW2. this is a fact. just google "finland swastika" and look at the pics.

The swastika was in wide use around the time the Nazis adopted it, and it was especially popular among aviators in the early 20th century. The Finish Air Force adopted the symbol in 1918, a year before the Nazi party was formed, so I wouldn't impute too much significance to it.

[Safe-Keeper]

Yeah. They had a swastika on their airplanes...during WW2 no less. but it has NOTHING to do with the nazis.I admit I'm ignorant as to exactly why the Finnish Air Force adopted the swastika in 1918, but I don't think it was to support the Nazi party:p.

As was said above me, the swastika apparently has a special meaning as a good luck charm to aviators. As was also said, the Finnish Air Force is far from the only party to have used the Swastika during WWII. There was this Icelandic merchant company whose symbol was a swastika - the ships flying this symbol had to cover it up when entering foreign ports, and when the Brits occupied Iceland in 1940, they stormed the company headquarters as they thought it was a Nazi building;).

[Oliver]

Source: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Finland_during_World_War_II)

Finland and Nazi Germany

During the Continuation War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation_War) (1941 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941)-1944 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1944)) Finland was co-belligerent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-belligerence) with Nazi Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany), and dependent on food, fuel and armament shipments from Germany. The country did, however, retain a democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy) form of government. During the war Germany and Finland were united by a common enemy, the Soviet Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union), yet Finland kept her army outside the German command structure despite numerous attempts to tie them more tightly together. *snip*


It was a country which sided with Germany, but in which native Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew) and almost all refugees were safe from persecution.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Finland_during_World_War_II#ci te_note-Rautkallio-5) It was the only co-belligerent of Nazi Germany which maintained democracy throughout the war. It was also the only belligerent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belligerent) in mainland Europe to do so.

[dudalb]

Yeah. They had a swastika on their airplanes...during WW2 no less. but it has NOTHING to do with the nazis.

sure...right......whatever. delude yourself all you like.


Gonna go into a rage against The Italians because they were allied to the Nazis,Parky?

Finland did not ally with the Nazis until after the Winter War, and it never was a very comfortable alliance.

[timhau]

I admit I'm ignorant as to exactly why the Finnish Air Force adopted the swastika in 1918, but I don't think it was to support the Nazi party:p.

Don't kid yourself. The small museum in the local cathedral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Turku) has medieval paintings with swastikas. We've been covertly supporting the NSDAP for over 500 years.

[MarkCorrigan]

Yeah, Parky you have to understand that the swastika in the Nazi form wasn't actually a Nazi symbol until they nicked off with it.

Much like the number 18 isn't a Nazi number even though it's used by neo-Nazi groups.
Finland was a collaborator with the Nazi's purely because they gained help from Germany and had a mutual enemy. Some Finnish politicians of the time may have been Nazi's, but the nation was hardly another Austria.

[drkitten]

I would like that russians would admit that they started the Winter War.

Yeah, well --- I would like a twelve-week paid vacation, a million tax-free dollars, a Nobel prize, and to be thirty pounds lighter.

I'm almost certainly going to get my wish before you get yours. Get over it.

[dudalb]

No one is denying that Russia attack on Finland was not a pretty bare faced case of aggresion, but Finland is not getting Karelia back anytime soon. And there are few Finns left there anyway.

[timhau]

Some Finnish politicians of the time may have been Nazi's

I'm no authority on the matter, but I am under the impression that few of them actually were. Our own far-right party (the Patriotic People's Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotic_People%27s_Movement_(Finland))) identified with and were modeled after Italian Fascists. What we did have in hordes, in high political and military positions, was people who were pro-German. The Finnish Civil War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_civil_war) of 1918 was still in recent memory, and there the victorious 'Whites' (non- or anti-socialist conservatives) had asked for and gotten help from the German Empire. That created enough goodwill between the nations that the local monarchists even asked a German prince to be the King of Finland.

[Tolls]

No one is denying that Russia attack on Finland was not a pretty bare faced case of aggresion, but Finland is not getting Karelia back anytime soon. And there are few Finns left there anyway.

Exactly.
It would be purely a land thing...which would result in a load more people being displaced, who had absolutely nothing to do with the events of 1939/40. Not exactly the sort of thing that makes for a nice peaceful area.

Besides, what would Finland do with Karelia? Give the land back to the descendants of the previous owners? What the hell would I do with a share of Karelian farmland?!

[Safe-Keeper]

Why displace them? Give Karelia back and Finland will have more people to rule, Russians no less! Those people have so much money that the taxes would be--

eh.

[timhau]

What the hell would I do with a share of Karelian farmland?!

Um... pay to upgrade the infrastructure from the 1920s to the 2000s?

[dudalb]

http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/products/SB/Winterwar/winterwar.html
Good game, btw.

[Foolmewunz]

Didn't Boris Yeltsin already (more or less) apologize or at least admit to culpability on behalf of Crazy Joe?

(I think he was drunk and then sobered up and retracted it in a warning to the Finnish press to stop covering the issue.)


Moon,
I think you don't understand that virtually no one here is a known supporter of Josef Stalin or his policies. (Strange, that! On a board where we have supporters of almost every ideology, I can't find any dyed in the wool Stalinists. :spjimlad: )

I don't support his moves on Poland after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, either. Or any of his acquisitions, in the name of creating a safety/buffer zone, after WWII. Should we be pushing Putin to apologize to Poland? Hungary? East Germany?

Maybe Putin or Medvedev should be apologizing to Solzhenitsyn and/or to the familes of the millions who died under the purges or in the Gulags?

In short, Moon.... We Get It, Okay?


ETA: Oops, one Moon thread looks like another. I thought I was responding to the Winter War thread. Oh, well.... six of one....

[Oliver]

The funny thing is: Moon actually never replied in here after posting the OP. So what's the fuss about anyway? :p

[Foolmewunz]

The funny thing is: Moon actually never replied in here after posting the OP. So what's the fuss about anyway? :p

Moon's a monomaniac (IMHO, of course). He never follows up on any of his "Why do Jews and Stalinists not give us back Karelia?" threads after a post or two. Since this sort of water torture trolling is evidently not against the rules, we've taken to discussions of whatever side issues interest us whenever he starts a thread. It's not kittening or cookie recipes, so I consider it a leap forward.

[Oliver]

Okay, I see that he also started a pretty similar topic the same day - on the other Hand, his last post in here was the very day he started this and the other thread. So I hope he didn't get a heart-attack over this Finland issue. :p

[Tolls]

Um... pay to upgrade the infrastructure from the 1920s to the 2000s?

I can barely afford the extension on my house...:)

[timhau]

I can barely afford the extension on my house...:)

Is your house one of those which was originally much bigger, but then part of it was taken by Russians and Jews?

[Tolls]

Is your house one of those which was originally much bigger, but then part of it was taken by Russians and Jews?

How did you guess?
They took over the garage...and the place is a right tip now.

I've nowhere to put the car...
Why doesn't the West do something?!

[Foolmewunz]

How did you guess?
They took over the garage...and the place is a right tip now.

I've nowhere to put the car...
Why doesn't the West do something?!

I don't believe the idea is that the West has to do something. I believe they have to pressure Putin into apologizing for the Stalinist Jews having done this to you.

[sackett]

I'm pleased to learn that the Finns adopted the swastika before the Nazis; I didn't know that. I assumed that they flew it on their planes out of necessity; otherwise, Mr. Meyer's boys might have shot them down; I'm sure they would have preferred tangling w/ obsolete Finnish fighters than with the Red Air Force.

One of the many things I resent the Nazis for is putting their dirty mitts on that fine old ancient symbol. (Sanskrit: Su vasti ka. "He is well.")

A Mannerheim anecdote, a true one I hope: One day at lunch a Nazi officer took out a cigarette and asked Mannerheim, "Will it bother you if I smoke?" Mannerheim looked at him for a moment and answered, "I don't know. No one has ever tried."

Believe that one sorta sums up the Finno-German relationship in those years. I'm no Mannerheim fan, but fifty Hitlers wouldn't have made one pimple on the old Master Butcher's asphalt.

[hgc]

Believe that one sorta sums up the Finno-German relationship in those years. I'm no Mannerheim fan, but fifty Hitlers wouldn't have made one pimple on the old Master Butcher's asphalt.


You have a knack for poetic indecipherability. :)

[sackett]

You have a knack for poetic indecipherability. :)

Count Mannerheim was president of Finland in WW2.

The Finns here (the sane ones, not Moon) can explain why he was called the Master Butcher.

[timhau]

Explanation: he was the commander-in-chief of the 'White' army (non-socialist conservative side) in the Finnish Civil War of 1918. 'Butcher' (Lahtari in Finnish) was the nickname he losing side, 'Reds' (socialists/communists), had for Whites.