Obama

[Perpetual Student]

Two things Obama said are encouraging:

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers."

"We will restore science to its rightful place."

[Ivor the Engineer]

Two things Obama said are encouraging:

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers."

"We will restore science to its rightful place."

Ah, but what about what you didn't hear?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers...but as there are far more believers who vote, I'm going to keep them happy first and foremost."

"We will restore science to its rightful place...which is in a subordinate role to religion."

:D

[T.A.M.]

Ivor, don't be such a pessimist. Compared to Bush etal, Obama will be a CHAMPION of science...baby steps.

TAM;)

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I listened to the speech and have read the transcript. I don't see any mention of "Family Values". Are you sure this guy really is an American politician? :duck:

[sol invictus]

Compared to Bush etal, Obama will be a CHAMPION of science...baby steps.


I agree with that... but here's a cautionary tale. Bush's last few budgets actually included large increases in funding for research in the physical sciences. His stated goal, which was reflected in his budget requests, was to double funding over a ten year period (much as funding for research in medicine and bio was doubled over ten years starting under Clinton and ending under Bush). But because of bitter political disputes between Bush and congress, not only did Bush's requested funding increases not go through, the budget was instead cut severely - resulting in massive lay-offs at national labs, as well as having an very damaging effect on academic science in the US.

So while this was Bush's fault in an indirect sense (for bankrupting the US with an idiotic war while alienating congress), he actually did support at least some kinds of scientific research.

[Puppycow]

We need to put those scientists back to work. It makes no sense for the federal government to cut science spending in hard economic times.

[GreyICE]

I agree with that... but here's a cautionary tale. Bush's last few budgets actually included large increases in funding for research in the physical sciences. His stated goal, which was reflected in his budget requests, was to double funding over a ten year period (much as funding for research in medicine and bio was doubled over ten years starting under Clinton and ending under Bush). But because of bitter political disputes between Bush and congress, not only did Bush's requested funding increases not go through, the budget was instead cut severely - resulting in massive lay-offs at national labs, as well as having an very damaging effect on academic science in the US.

So while this was Bush's fault in an indirect sense (for bankrupting the US with an idiotic war while alienating congress), he actually did support at least some kinds of scientific research.
With all due respect, he's bankrupted our country. We do need massive budget cuts. I hope they come from the military primarily, rather than science, but they're going to be across the board. We can point fingers, but that doesn't really make the debt go away.

[sol invictus]

With all due respect, he's bankrupted our country. We do need massive budget cuts.

You might want to inform the new administration of that, because that's precisely the opposite of what they think.

I hope they come from the military primarily, rather than science, but they're going to be across the board.

Hmmm. Last time I checked the US plan was to spend more than $1,000,000,000,000 extra on a broad range of programs. Some of that goes straight to banks, but a large fraction will go towards infrastructure improvements and federal hiring.

[GreyICE]

You might want to inform the new administration of that, because that's precisely the opposite of what they think.

Hmmm. Last time I checked the US plan was to spend more than $1,000,000,000,000 extra on a broad range of programs. Some of that goes straight to banks, but a large fraction will go towards infrastructure improvements and federal hiring.

Okay, I'll pass it along.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/07/presidential.debate.transcript/

When George Bush came into office, our debt -- national debt was around $5 trillion. It's now over $10 trillion. We've almost doubled it.

[...]

So we're going to have to make some investments, but we've also got to make spending cuts. And what I've proposed, you'll hear Sen. McCain say, well, he's proposing a whole bunch of new spending, but actually I'm cutting more than I'm spending so that it will be a net spending cut.

The key is whether or not we've got priorities that are working for you as opposed to those who have been dictating the policy in Washington lately, and that's mostly lobbyists and special interests. We've got to put an end to that.


P.S. It's not extra.

P.P.S. You can argue whether he'll stick to a statement in a debate. But saying he's unaware of it and doesn't have plans to cut it is silly, especially when you yourself named some cuts.

Plus, he's been President for what, like 2 days and he still hasn't accomplished all his programs?

[Ivor the Engineer]

<snip>

Plus, he's been President for what, like 2 days and he still hasn't accomplished all his programs?

Give the man a break! He was busy entertaining 5000 hungry guests.

[Dave Rogers]

Give the man a break! He was busy entertaining 5000 hungry guests.

So far, then, he's increased spending by a couple of dollars for the two loaves and about $20 for the fishes.

Dave

[Old Bob]

He has the bloodline, related to 5 past Presidents so that's why the don't care if he is American born or not. Anyway he plans to disarm the people.

[Zep]

He has the bloodline, related to 5 past Presidents so that's why the don't care if he is American born or not. Anyway he plans to disarm the people.
That's right, Bob. Somewhere in the dim, dark past (no pun intended), Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Snr and Reagan all share a common bloodline. I suspect it was about the time of Ogg, also known as Grugg, first upright walker in what is now Tanzania.

[rudeboy]

he seems like a nice guy though

[rudeboy]

That's right, Bob. Somewhere in the dim, dark past (no pun intended), Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Snr and Reagan all share a common bloodline. I suspect it was about the time of Ogg, also known as Grugg, first upright walker in what is now Tanzania.
I heard he has a fake passport and was a ctually born in Kenya

[Jeff Corey]

He has the bloodline, related to 5 past Presidents so that's why the don't care if he is American born or not. Anyway he plans to disarm the people.
Fixed it for you Old Bob.
And people seem to find him quite disarming.

Please do not alter quotes from other posters.

[The Painter]

Two things Obama said are encouraging:

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers."

"We will restore science to its rightful place."

Oh boy, you're so happy he mentioned you. Well what about Satan worshipers? What about Wiccan? Maybe Obama is not as inclusive as you think he is.

[tsig]

He has the bloodline, related to 5 past Presidents so that's why the don't care if he is American born or not. Anyway he plans to disarm the people.

Is Thomas Jefferson one of them?

[Lonewulf]

Oh boy, you're so happy he mentioned you. Well what about Satan worshipers? What about Wiccan? Maybe Obama is not as inclusive as you think he is.

:boggled:

Do you have a point, Painter, or is being an asshat your only goal?

[Perpetual Student]

Oh boy, you're so happy he mentioned you. Well what about Satan worshipers? What about Wiccan? Maybe Obama is not as inclusive as you think he is.

You're right -- he also forgot to mention butt-heads.

[The Painter]

You're right -- he also forgot to mention butt-heads.

You got that right!!!

My point, who cares. It is meaningless. Do you think, because he says non-believer it gives you any kind of validation. Are you so insecure that you need validation? It's as stupid as the religious getting giddy because he said God.

[joobz]

I agree with that... but here's a cautionary tale. Bush's last few budgets actually included large increases in funding for research in the physical sciences. His stated goal, which was reflected in his budget requests, was to double funding over a ten year period (much as funding for research in medicine and bio was doubled over ten years starting under Clinton and ending under Bush). But because of bitter political disputes between Bush and congress, not only did Bush's requested funding increases not go through, the budget was instead cut severely - resulting in massive lay-offs at national labs, as well as having an very damaging effect on academic science in the US.

So while this was Bush's fault in an indirect sense (for bankrupting the US with an idiotic war while alienating congress), he actually did support at least some kinds of scientific research.
But Bush's budgets never were balanced. He took out some token programs, but for the most part left it to congress to decide what gets cut or not. And he played the hard card whenever it was thought that the DOD budget would go down.

So while he may have had a budget increase for science in there, he didn't really champion it either.


Note that the NSF AND NIH budgets increased steadily under the Clinton Years. it was only under the Bush years that there was a clear and marketed flatline on funding. Interestingly, during Bush, the increase in earmarks for research increased markedly. The last numbers I saw at a NSF grant writing presentation was that the NSF funding was 15billion and earmarks for science were 15 billion. IT's foolish to expect scientists to turn into lobbyists in order to get money.

[Lonewulf]

You got that right!!!Indeed. Glad to see you're so proud of it. :rolleyes:

Practically the definition of a troll.

My point, who cares. It is meaningless. Do you think, because he says non-believer it gives you any kind of validation. Are you so insecure that you need validation? It's as stupid as the religious getting giddy because he said God.

Yes, I know. I mean, contrasting George Bush Senior not recognizing Atheists as patriots or even Americans, there's absolutely no reason to be glad of a President that can recognize atheists as Americans. :rolleyes:

Get a clue.

[Perpetual Student]

You got that right!!!

My point, who cares. It is meaningless. Do you think, because he says non-believer it gives you any kind of validation. Are you so insecure that you need validation? It's as stupid as the religious getting giddy because he said God.

I am astonished that anyone could miss such an obvious point -- so here goes: Non-believers are often demonized in American culture -- to the point that politicians are reluctant to give Atheism even token acknowledgement as a legitimate opinion. The intent of my comment was to merely point out that Obama broke with tradition (had the courage) to include "non-believers" in his comments about the makeup of our society -- nothing more. Take your meds and a deep breath!

[The Painter]

I'm so glad he gave your life meaning. Mine has had meaning for years now. Now since the president acknowledged you lifestyle you can come out of the closet as a true non-believer. Congrats. Now don't screw it up!

As a non-believer, you believe in nothing. So every time he talks about nothing you chalk one up for yourself.

[Lonewulf]

:rolleyes:

[Vorpal]

Considering that this is a reversal of the previous president's position that non-believers should be denied citizenship, it should be understandable to anyone why a non-believer might consider this a breath of fresh air. Except to the trolls, as one of the above posts demonstrates.

[Modified]

Note that the NSF AND NIH budgets increased steadily under the Clinton Years. it was only under the Bush years that there was a clear and marketed flatline on funding.

I'm not sure about overall NSF funding, but the bit that concerns me (software engineering education) was approximately cut in half shortly after Bush took office and has not increased significantly since.

[Perpetual Student]

As a non-believer, you believe in nothing. So every time he talks about nothing you chalk one up for yourself.

Thank you. The above is a clear demonstration of the ignorance, intolerance and venom that characterize the bunch who just vacated the White House. Simply put, Americans kicked the bums out. Good riddance!

[athon]

You got that right!!!

My point, who cares. It is meaningless. Do you think, because he says non-believer it gives you any kind of validation. Are you so insecure that you need validation? It's as stupid as the religious getting giddy because he said God.

You might have missed the point that non-believers don't tend to get mentioned at all. Atheists in America have a hard time even being counted as Americans, let alone mentioned as equals of any sort to those of faith. I'd expect faithers to be having a parties if a secular society mentioned them where normally they were denigrated.

Anyway...you were currently burning a straw man. Please, continue. I'll stand up wind, if you don't mind.

Athon

[The Painter]

Atheists in America have a hard time even being counted as Americans,

That's just stupid. So if you're an atheist when they take the Census You don't count??? BS Living in NY being an Atheist is no big deal. There are lots of them, They're all over the place. Maybe where you live in Bumfck, in whatever state it is a big deal and I just don't see it.


BTW do the Buddhist feel slighted?

[Lonewulf]

That's just stupid. So if you're an atheist when they take the Census You don't count???

:rolleyes:

That's not what he said.

Please, continue your dishonest rampant strawman burning.

It's what people like you are good at, and pretty much the only thing.

[DcTurner]

I was extremely gratified by Obama's re-taking of the presidential oath, this time without Lincoln's bible. A minuscule victory, yes, but it's nice to remember that a holy text is not required for the ceremony. I have since become interested in the various ways that previous presidents have been sworn into office;

Franklin Pierce is the only president ever to have affirmed, instead of sworn.

Theodore Roosevelt didn't use a bible at all.

Dwight Eisenhower, Harry Truman, and Richard Nixon swore the oath on two Bibles (brown-nosers).

John Quincy Adams swore on the book of law.

Harry Truman bent over and kissed the bible after taking his oath.

The only woman ever to administer the oath was Sarah T. Hughes, who swore in Lyndon Johnson on air force one after JFK was shot.

(yes, I have been on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office_of_the_President_of_the_United_Stat es#.22So_help_me_God.22))

[Perpetual Student]

Obviously, Obama ruffled some feathers:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2170595/posts

[rhtufts]

Obama sounds like an atheist whose smart enough to fool the christians.

watch this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE

this has probably been posted before... but watching this makes me like him alot.

[Perpetual Student]

Obama sounds like an atheist whose smart enough to fool the christians.

watch this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Kh-xzerjE

this has probably been posted before... but watching this makes me like him alot.

Thanks for that! I think it would be therapeutic for some on this forum to watch it.

[Lonewulf]

Some of the Youtube commentators seem "interesting", but then, they always do.

You can't have a president who represents all of us (in religion), since in order to even represent one religion, you have to abandon the rest of them.

This pluralistic thinking is nothing short of a whimsical notion that would and should be laughed out of any self-respecting religious or theological discussion.

The very idea of "pluralism" is hilarious and never ceases to bring me great laughter at its mention.

"""religious nut jobs"""
lol I could say the same thing to you, Atheist nutjob.

Like a whore he sells his own religion by what he says about "compromising" with ALL religions. Does he not know there is a "good" and "bad", a "right" and "wrong"? He should just keep his mouth shut about religion altogether.

Oh for God's sake did we really elect this guy?

RIP America
1776-2009 (Sounds like The Painter has a fan!)


Its called an analogy. If you find that amusing, I can give you more.

Im not argueing FOR religion, I am argueing against atheism. Don't you think its a blurred boundary between atheism and Satanism? One is a spawn of the other... there is all the proof you need.

My point is, if you had the opportunity to kill someone who murdered your X (God forbid), and could get away with it, an atheist has NO fear of doing so. A theist DOES.

[orange31]

... Non-believers are often demonized in American culture -- to the point that politicians are reluctant to give Atheism even token acknowledgement as a legitimate opinion. The intent of my comment was to merely point out that Obama broke with tradition (had the courage) to include "non-believers" in his comments about the makeup of our society -- nothing more...

Regarding Americans (I realize you said politicians) "demonizing" non-believers as a "tradition"- that is a small very LOUD minority and a recent phenomenon that had political backing because it served the administration's agenda, but it's not a major player anymore. The choices were very clear in the election.
I think America has a 'silent majority' of people who truly have no interest in their neighbor's religious belief, it's a private matter. In an otherwise good book about politics and religion, 'American Theocracy' by Kevin Phillips, ('The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century'), back in 2006 he contended that 1/3 or more of americans were creationists quite eager to start more wars in the name of JC and grab the hydrocarbons in the process. And that a large number of americans were trying to incinerate the Mid-East as they believed it would bring on end-time salvation from the sky.
Those political scenarios haven't happened. The American people are much more independent and live-and-let-live than most commentators recognize.