quiet sun worries scientists

[rudeboy]

http://www.viewzone.com/sunspot24.html

scary stuff which leads to this:


http://www.viewzone.com/endtime.html

[rudeboy]

http://www.viewzone.com/sunspot24.html

scary stuff which leads to this:


http://www.viewzone.com/endtime.html
it was the quiet sun that led to little ice age

[INRM]

What happened during the "Little Ice Age"?

Also, What happens when the sun aligns with the milky-way's center?


INRM

[rudeboy]

What happened during the "Little Ice Age"?

Also, What happens when the sun aligns with the milky-way's center?


INRM

temperatures dropped dramatically
as for the second question..who knows?

[casebro]

What happened during the "Little Ice Age"?

Also, What happens when the sun aligns with the milky-way's center?


INRM

The nougat melts.

[Pixel42]

What happened during the "Little Ice Age"?
Temperatures dropped very slightly.

Also, What happens when the sun aligns with the milky-way's center?
Absolutely nothing.

Not that the phrase (a) means anything I've ever been able to make any sense of and (b) applies to anything that's going to happen in 2012, which is simply when the Mayan long count rolls over.

[MRC_Hans]

The effect of galactic gravity is miniscule. Most of the mass of the Solar System outside the sun is concentrated in Jupiter, and this explains why effects on the sun can be synchronized with Jupiter. All thinkable alignments between planets and even planets and the galactic center have occurred numerous times during the lifetim of the Solar System.

A "Little Ice Age" may affect the average temperature on Earth, possibly giving us a temporary truce from global warming.


Hans

[Pixel42]

http://2012wiki.com/index.php?title=Galactic_Alignment

The precise alignment of the solstice point (the precise center-point of the body of the sun as viewed from earth) with the Galactic equator was calculated to occur in 1998 [...] Therefore, if the significance of 2012 is related to a precise intersecting of the Galactic Equator, whatever that significance would have meant would already have occurred.

Like I said, nothing to do with 2012.

[Molinaro]

This galactic center talk always annoys me. If we were to draw an overhead view of the Milky Way on a football field, so that it just fit within the edges of the field, and then we were to draw a center line for the Milky Way, how thick would the line have to be to accurately represent our margin of error in locating that center line?

And, how long would it take our solar system (or just the sun for that matter) to cross that center line? Or, if it only took 1 day for the Sun to cross, how thin would the line have to be? I'm extremely doubtfull that a line of sufficient width to accurately represent the margin of error in the placement of that line could be crossed by the sun in a single day. Hence, this talk of crossing the center on a particular day seems looney. If I remember correctly, I read an article that said the actual crossing takes a few decades.

[rudeboy]

Temperatures dropped very slightly.


Absolutely nothing.

Not that the phrase (a) means anything I've ever been able to make any sense of and (b) applies to anything that's going to happen in 2012, which is simply when the Mayan long count rolls over.
Slightly?
People think that 1 degree is nothing when in fact it is a lot.A 3 degree increase in temperature averages and we would be done.
As far 1850 the River Thames would freeze so much that peole would camp in there, today that would be unthinkable. Only in Siberia does that hapen regularly

[Pixel42]

Slightly?
I was deliberately countering your use of the word 'dramatically'.

As has been pointed out another temporary dip similiar to the Maunder Minimum might actually be fortuitous, as it would offset some of the current warming due to greenhouse gases.

[RecoveringYuppy]

The effect of galactic gravity is miniscule. Most of the mass of the Solar System outside the sun is concentrated in Jupiter, and this explains why effects on the sun can be synchronized with Jupiter. All thinkable alignments between planets and even planets and the galactic center have occurred numerous times during the lifetim of the Solar System.

On top of that it's hard to imagine that any gravitational relationship would be affected by the timing of the solstice. Any gravitational effect would happen yearly.

[rudeboy]

I was deliberately countering your use of the word 'dramatically'.

As has been pointed out another temporary dip similiar to the Maunder Minimum might actually be fortuitous, as it would offset some of the current warming due to greenhouse gases.

as for the galactic alignment it seems to have already began in 1998, but not the exact alignment with the center of the milky way.
Any idea what it may cause?

[Pixel42]

as for the galactic alignment it seems to have already began in 1998, but not the exact alignment with the center of the milky way.
Any idea what it may cause?
I've found no evidence to support any significant alignment in 2012. The link I posted above describes an alignment which is already past its mid point.

I can see no conceivable mechanism whereby any such alignment could have any measurable effect on the earth whatsoever.

[Molinaro]

Here are some numbers to go with my earlier questions:

The Sun orbits the center of the milky way at a distance of 26,000 +/- 1,400 light years, at a speed of 220 KM/S, along the orbital path.

Therefore, the Sun travels about 19 million KM per day. To be able to accurately say the Sun crosses the center line on a particular day, we have to be accurate to within 1 day in 220 million years for the position of the Sun relative to our placement of that center line. And yet, we can't even say how far we are from the center of the Milky Way much better than by 1 part in 20 of the distance to the center!

[Mister Agenda]

Welcome, rudeboy! I think the gravitic effects of the galactic center alignment would be close to undetectable without extremely sensitive instrumentation and we've had full-on planetary alignments with a much stronger gravitic effect that still turned out to be negligible and had no perceptible effect on anything at all. The alignment may have some astrological significance I suppose. Maybe it would be a propitious time to cast love spells.

[Dancing David]

as for the galactic alignment it seems to have already began in 1998, but not the exact alignment with the center of the milky way.
Any idea what it may cause?


Uh, the solstice aligns with lots of things on a regular basis. As does the north pole, the nodes of the moon and all sorts of things.

Passing in and out of concentrations in the galactic arms, that has a much more significant impact. The possible increase in carbon flowing into the sun could have a greater impact. We don't see to be passing through a molecular cloud right now.

Pray tell, why would the alignment with the galactic center with the winter solstice make any difference?

[Miss_Kitt]

Welcome, rudeboy! I think the gravitic effects of the galactic center alignment would be close to undetectable without extremely sensitive instrumentation and we've had full-on planetary alignments with a much stronger gravitic effect that still turned out to be negligible and had no perceptible effect on anything at all. The alignment may have some astrological significance I suppose. Maybe it would be a propitious time to cast love spells.

I would assume an alignment with the Milky Way would be a propitious time for giving chocolates!! In the interests of improving everyone's alignment with the Forces of the Universe, I volunteer to receive those gifts.

Preferably dark chocolate, ideally with a liquor or ginger flavoring; gifts may be delivered in person at TAM7.

No, really, it's my pleasure. :)

[BenBurch]

Quiet sun does not scare me at all, and I know more than a little about astrophysics.

And as Hans pointed out, the most likely effect will HELP us manage global warming, and with any luck will last until fossil fuels are something used ONLY in high performance aircraft.

What worries me is that we are re-learning just how intense solar storms from an un-quiet sun can get, and this has major ramifications for our technology. We need to re-design all our power transmission systems and whatever telephone transmission lines are still copper wire, and we also need to have a way to shut down and "crowbar" for a span of time the power systems on all new space hardware.

The good news at least in the USA is that the power grid is in near collapse already, and re-building is in the plans.

[fuelair]

What happened during the "Little Ice Age"?

Also, What happens when the sun aligns with the milky-way's center?


INRMUnless I miss something here, the sun is always aligned with the Milky Way's center, as is the Earth, the moon and every other point in the galaxy and (likely) beyond. The Sun and the center are two points, in essence any two points are aligned ( a single line may be drawn/provided that connects them). Only if you add more points that must also be aligned does a problem arise.

[krazyKemist]

Quiet sun does not scare me at all, and I know more than a little about astrophysics.

And as Hans pointed out, the most likely effect will HELP us manage global warming, and with any luck will last until fossil fuels are something used ONLY in high performance aircraft.

What worries me is that we are re-learning just how intense solar storms from an un-quiet sun can get, and this has major ramifications for our technology. We need to re-design all our power transmission systems and whatever telephone transmission lines are still copper wire, and we also need to have a way to shut down and "crowbar" for a span of time the power systems on all new space hardware.

The good news at least in the USA is that the power grid is in near collapse already, and re-building is in the plans.

The power grid's already done here (Québec), thanks to our evil nationalized electricity company (Hydro-Québec). They did most of it after a major state-wide blackout caused by solar storms (we actually saw northern lights at our latitude that year). Then we had another upgrade, ice-rain resistant pylons for high tension lines, following the major blackout in montreal.

All in all we did a good thing by nationalising. We get to build humongous dams that very few private companies would have the nerve to build, we get a good modern power grid, and relatively cheap electricity almost wherever we choose to build.

[dogguy]

Unless I miss something here, the sun is always aligned with the Milky Way's center, as is the Earth, the moon and every other point in the galaxy and (likely) beyond. The Sun and the center are two points, in essence any two points are aligned ( a single line may be drawn/provided that connects them). Only if you add more points that must also be aligned does a problem arise.

Thanks for saying this, fuelair. It always seems on this forum that, if I procrastinate long enough, someone always puts my thoughts into words more eloquently than I ever could.

[mhaze]

Slightly?
People think that 1 degree is nothing when in fact it is a lot.A 3 degree increase in temperature averages and we would be done.
As far 1850 the River Thames would freeze so much that peole would camp in there, today that would be unthinkable. Only in Siberia does that hapen regularlyAnyone who thinks a repeat of the LIA would be a good thing, such as those on this thread who would praise the "beneficial effects" it would have on their beliefs in a planet warming due to man, has either not thought of the death count from another LIA or doesn't care.

Cold is worse than warm, Warmers.

Skeptics understand that facts contrary to the Beliefs must be disregarded, within the narrow view of a radical environmentalist with Liberal Authoritarian Personality Disorder.

[BenBurch]

... Cold is worse than warm, Warmers. ...

When there is a +2 C Anthropogenic Warming effect on top of a -2 C "Maunder Minimum" effect, what do your mad math skillz tell you is the net effect?

[Subduction Zone]

When there is a +2 C Anthropogenic Warming effect on top of a -2 C "Maunder Minimum" effect, what do your mad math skillz tell you is the net effect?

I think you are not understanding his point. Historically and even today cold has a worse effect on people than excessive warmth does. Every year more people die from the effects of cold weather than the effects of warm weather. You only hear about one or the other when they are out of their norms, like the summers in the late 90's when the French with their poor air conditioning had all sorts of heat death. If you follow this you will find all sorts of cold deaths in India and other "warm" areas recently. The LIA was much worse for people than the Medieval Optimum, AKA the Medieval Warm Period.

[BenBurch]

... Every year more people die from the effects of cold weather than the effects of warm weather. ...

No matter how cold it has gotten here in Chicago, we never lost 600 in the span of a few days from cold.

Heat, on the other hand, was the Grim Reaper here 13 years ago;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Chicago_heat_wave

[mhaze]

I think you are not understanding his point. Historically and even today cold has a worse effect on people than excessive warmth does. Every year more people die from the effects of cold weather than the effects of warm weather.....Yes, l think it is about 10x deaths, cold vs warm/hot.

Ben's argument collapses except in a precise alignment in strength and duration of a positive and a negative influence. But he did not state this as a limit to the scope of his argument.

[Dancing David]

Unless I miss something here, the sun is always aligned with the Milky Way's center, as is the Earth, the moon and every other point in the galaxy and (likely) beyond. The Sun and the center are two points, in essence any two points are aligned ( a single line may be drawn/provided that connects them). Only if you add more points that must also be aligned does a problem arise.

Ah, yes, but in this case it also aligns (sort of) with the december solstice.

Look three points make a triangle!

[macdoc]

Checks forum against OP - yep - it IS the science forum...much woo in OP.