Re-installing software on a new computer

[Rolfe]

OK, I got a new computer. I've got all the files from the old computer on a DVD. I've re-installed a couple of programmes from their original CDs without a great deal of trouble. However, I seem to be missing a trick when it comes to re-installing programmes from the DVD.

Simply copying the relevant folder into "Program Files" doesn't seem to be the answer. On programme (my ftp client) seems to be suggesting that I re-install it with admin privileges, but even if I was sure how to do that, I'm not convinced it's the entire answer. There's a lot of other stuff on the error screen as well. It also seems to be expecting me to pay for it all over again - at least it seems to be trying to start as a trial version. Is this usual? I paid for the programme when I downloaded it on to my old computer.

With this one, I might well decide to download the current version and pay for it, anyway. But I'd still like to know what the correct protocol is to transfer programmes properly from the backup DVD. I've got at least one bit of freeware which is now flagged as unavailable for download, anyone having an old version is welcome to keep it, and I want to keep it thanks.

All help and advice gratefully accepted.

Rolfe.

[Z]

I'm running into similar problems re-installing everything after doing a factory reset on my system. Vista seems to think you need admin priviliges for everything in order to work properly, and wants to re-charge you for everything, it seems.

The worst problem I'm having, though, is doing 60 Windows and related product updates on a very slow dial-up system.

[Rolfe]

I'm using XP - sorry, I should have said. And I have reasonable broadband speed. (Though that bit isn't very relevant when re-installing from DVD.)

Rolfe.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

With both Windos and Mac operating systems, the software has to kind of insinuate itself into the opetating system. Just copying it back into the executables area won't get the job done because the operating system doesn't know what to do with the stuff.

Some do this with Dynamic Link Libraries (DLLs) copied into folders you rarely have reason to touch, like, C:\WINDOWS\system and C:\WINDOWS\system32, while others put God and Bill Gates only know what into folders you'll never see, like, C:\Documents and Settings\Rolfe\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\MSDN\9.0.

The most common thing is to insert a great whopping bunch of non-human-readable stuff in the system registry that looks like:
http://sites.google.com/site/gagglegnash/_/rsrc/1232664915249/what-me-done/RegeditPic.jpg

It's about impossible to do this by hand without an intimate knowledge of the software, and by intimate, I mean panties and paternity suits intimate.

Sorry, Rolfe - your best bet is to either find the original install stuff or byte the bullet, lay out the outlay, and get the new version.

Alternatively: Some on-line purchase-and-download places make a record of your... ummm... you know... purchases and downloads, and will let you re-grab a copy of your stuff for free or for a small service charge.

AlternativelyAlternatively: Have you heard of FileZilla (http://filezilla-project.org/)? The performance-to-price ration is TOTALLY steep (because it's free, the denominator approaches zero) and just-plain-ol' performance is quite nice, as well.

[redziller]

Yep - copy 'n' paste won't do it. You need to run the original setup which does more than copy files.

Cheers

[elgarak]

Hi

With both Windos and Mac operating systems, the software has to kind of insinuate itself into the opetating system. Just copying it back into the executables area won't get the job done because the operating system doesn't know what to do with the stuff.[...]
This is not true. None of the software packages I have installed on my MacBook (including stuff like Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Office, Apple's iWork, and EndNote [which has to intimately interact with Office's Word and iWork's Pages]) needed to integrate into the operating system in any form or shape that's encountered in Windows. In fact, the kind of integration encountered in Windows is pretty much unique to Windows.

To transfer the applications to a new Mac, one simply has to copy them over. There are some libraries that do the integration between packages (like EndNote with installed word processors), but if missing, proper programmed applications (again, like EndNote) just rebuild those libraries by themselves in most cases. In fact, in pretty much all cases the 'install' on Mac OS X is a simple copy into the Applications folder (which requires admin privileges), but a great deal of application will also run without limits in other locations (where they can be put with normal user privileges). A lot of commercial applications still come with 'installers', but for the vast majority of applications those installers are not really necessary and are usually just scripts that combine copies to multiple locations or checks of already installed applications.

[shadron]

Agree with Gagglenash. One should always keep original disks, downloads and associated passwords and keys, and always re-install when the OS is re-installed. There are literally hundreds of places on your disk that pieces and parts of your software are hidden away. There are programs that try to allow you to move software from one disk partition to another, but they are all crap shoots which depend on knowing where such pieces may have been placed ahead of time, and it only needs to miss one piece to crash the program, or worse, corrupt your data.

I have three partitions on any disk that I use to boot from. The first partition includes all operating system and application installs - if I replace the OS, I reformat that partition completely at the start. The second partition is used exclusively by the swap file, and the third contains all the application data. It takes some discipline to maintain this setup, mainly in specifying where data (like email files, for example) will reside, and software manufacturers seem to try very hard to hide the kind of information one needs to do it well. But it makes doing backups a lot easier, and therefore a lot more probable and more often done. And that partition is always there after the re-installation is done (not that it isn't backed up as well!).

And I gotta agree that the Windows registry, which replaces common-sense settings files and the like, was a rather bad idea. But it isn't going away, either.

[Rolfe]

I have in fact succeeded in installing the ftp client. I found the install file. I suspect I've got them for everything, but it's hard to pick them out. However, I get the impression that the ftp programme has decided it's now only installed as a 30-day trial, even though it was fully bought and paid for. Well, it's not expensive, and if it does that I can always buy the newer version.

However, what it didn't re-install was the saved settings for access to my web sites. Bummer. Where did I last see these settings and passwords?

I suppose that's the trick though - keep clicking until something shows up as an install option.

Rolfe.

[kedo1981]

You want to do what all the hip digital kids call “ghosting the hard drive”
Search the term and you’ll find many free utts for the taking.
I did this on two separate systems not to long ago.

[shadron]

However, what it didn't re-install was the saved settings for access to my web sites. Bummer. Where did I last see these settings and passwords?

Depends on your browser. IE uses [Windows]\Documents and Settings\Rolphie\Favorites; in FireFox it is in the Mozilla profile folder in \bookmarks.htm .

[Rolfe]

Hmm, no "Favorites" forder in that location on my backup DVD.

Also, I'm talking about ftp access. Why would that have anything to do with the browser I use (which was usually IE but sometimes Opera)? The ftp programme is something called FtpVoyager.

Maybe it's time to start telephoning my web server providers and grovelling a bit.

Rats, I did have access to the fried hard drive for a little while, and these settings were something I didn't think of retrieving. Silly me.

Rolfe.

[ohms]

If you decide to change your browser to Firefox then there is a handy add on called FireFTP (http://fireftp.mozdev.org/) which lets you do all your FTP'ing from your browser. Of course, this won't help you find your ftp login details I'm afraid.

[Rolfe]

Well the ftp access part was pretty easy. I called one web hosting service, and the guy said, do you still use your Compuserve email. I said yes, and he said OK, I'll email you all the login details.

The other one was slightly more difficult as I'd forgotten my security phrase in the ten years since I'd set the site up, and he didn't have the Comupuserve email addy. Being able to give my address and telephone number at the time when I set up the account did the trick though. But then, in fact I only needed the name of the ftp login site which wasn't a security issue anyway, as I could actually remember my password for that one.

So that's that bit fixed.

I just get the crawling suspicion that I'm cluttering up this new PC by making inept attempts at installing stuff. At least one desktop icon is refusing to let me delete it.

Rolfe.

[MRC_Hans]

As some mentioned, there is a thing called the registry. This is a database that Windows use to manage programs. I don't know why they built it like that, but it does enable programs to share a lot of common features. For instance, it allows you to copy a text in one program and paste it into another. There are other and simpler ways to do that, but .....

So, what you needed was a so-called image, or a ghost, which would require access to the original disk in perfect working order. That seems to be too late, so I fear you need to go the re-install way. The flip-side is that you get the opportunity to clean up and modernize.

Hans

[Soapy Sam]

Did the ADSL go live yet? I'd be interested to know who you're with and what download rate you get, so I can compare it with BT's official numbers.

I just changed my adsl account. Ironically, it changed four days after I came back to work, so I dunno if I bought a dud or not.

On installing software on new Windows machines- as others said, the registry is the problem. It's advisable (and I realise this is a stable door situation) to keep a regular backup of the registry itself. This would not be directly transferrable, but just might give the settings you need for some critical software. (I'd hate to do it that way though, might take weeks to get it right).
My response to a new machine is to download and install
The Gimp- GNU equivalent of photoshop.
Foxit reader -Smaller , faster adobe reader
OpenOffice- Opensource office suite
Starcalc - Astronomy program
Sysinternals various maintenance utilities,
All of which are FREE.
Before doing that, I use the recovery disc, if one is supplied, to do a clean factory reinstall of Windows itself, carefully NOT installing any of the other bundled software which is usually useless or worse- various ISP files/ computer manufacturer's updaters, useless stuff for writing CD labels (Does ANYBODY actually print CD labels??). Then I turn off sounds in windows, and if it's Vista, turn off UAC.
Then it's usable.
ETA- And , of course, turn Automatic Updates OFF, Kill Windows Firewall and tick the box that stops it telling me there are security problems with my computer.
There aren't.

[shadron]

I forgot - there are two other sources of favorites in IE. One is [Windows]\Documents and Settings\All Users\Favorites, and then there is [Windows]\Favorites. The latter gets filled during login by yours plus the All Users favorites together.

I have a script I use to make copies of the important stuff in the registry and [Windows]\Documents and Settings before I do something rash, like rebuild the OS. Unfortunately, that script has to be run on a regular basis like backups, and a certain amount of investigation has to be done whenever a new app is added. It would even be possible to move Documents and Settings to the data partition, but I'd have to invest a lot of time in using O/S building scripts and such, and dangers of getting things wrong abound there.

There are lots and lots of semi-religious advice on things to do when re-installing the operating system, such as Soapy's advice above about turning sounds off, turning off security and restore. Others turn off a number of Window's "good look" features in a sort of numbing return to the Puritan simplicity of Windows 3.1. I could give you quite a lot of my own, but you don't need to be burdened about that. Read all such with a grain of salt and your own experience.

[Rolfe]

Soapy, it went live pretty much immediately.

I was downloading a 30-day trial version of WordPerfect X4 yesterday evening and it was registering 125Kb/s, I think. I have no idea if that is good or not. I can't seem to relate these figures either to the 8Mb they headline on the literature, or the 6Mb they told me over the phone was what I could expect. I seem to recall that the BBC (or was it C4?) expose reported that peope were actually averaging 2-4Mb.

What I did notice was that when I downloaded iTunes over the dial-up it took 7 hours. When I downloaded it again (newer version) over the broadband it took 17 minutes.

I might well have the registry information you refer to, because the fried hard disc was not only recovered by a professional data recovery company, it was repaired. The problem was that the repaired disc only lasted 48 hours so it is now inaccessible. However, I would expect anything that should have been got off that disc to have been got. Considering the price. But I don't really have the deep techie know-how to fiddle with that sort of information, so it's probably best left alone.

I've reinstalled Compuserve 3.0.1 from the original CD, and the weird bit is that this ancient programme (1997 or earlier) just gets better and more stable the newer the version of Windows I put it on (not running Vista though). I've still got it because even 3.0.4 turned out to have bugs when I thought I should upgrade way back when, and 4 was too awful to contemplate. And I'm quite fond of the way Compuserve handles emails, particularly the way it never lets a virus through. I intend to cancel my Compuserve account quite soon in a rationalisation-and-economy drive, but I'll still need the software to access the old emails. (Yes, I'm the moron that had to check the date on an email from November 2000 that included the line "by the way, I'm pregnant" to figure out whether it was an 8th or a 9th birthday card that had to be bought....)

I also reinstalled WordPerfect 7 from a backup CD. This has mostly gone fine, with one little glitch. The "open existing file" command mysteriously doesn't work. The window opens and all the files are there and I click on the one I want and nothing happens. I have to go into the folder from the desktop and open the file that way. I don't quite know what to do about that other than work round it. It was fine on my old machine, which also ran XP, but presumably an earlier version.

However, I intend to try to work as much as possible with WordPerfect X4 during my 30-day trial. I'm not as comfortable with it as I am with 7, and the fonts don't display quite as well as I expected (though I did find an instruction in PerfectHelp that nearly fixed that). The trouble is that a bug in the toolbar customisation which was the main reason I stopped using WordPerfect 10 a few years ago is still there. It means that a very small number of commands refuse to display as text, stubbornly retaining their icons instead. If I was really obsessive I could edit the picture-icons to sort of show the text, but I'm planning on learning the keyboard shortcuts for these commands instead. And at the moment I don't like the look and feel of the workspace so much. Which might just be habit I suppose. So I've got 30 days to decide whether I get used to it and that bloody toolbar bug enough to want to give them actual money for it. (Mmmm, thinking about it, it might not be quite the bug I thought it was - there could be a reason for it. Still annoying though.)

I'm fairly cool about paying for an upgrade on FTP Voyager. I seem to remember that's what I did last time, when I couldn't find the original freeware version I'd been using on the computer before that. Unless I find something just as capable, free. I can't quite understand why a programme that was paid for 5 years ago suddenly reverts to "this is your free 30 day trial period" though.

My main bugbear is EditPad. I hate Notepad and it actually can't do what I need it to do, that is open web pages for editing that are more than its rather pathetic maximum file size. I've been using the wonderful Editpad (http://www.editpadpro.com/editpadclassic.html) which is a sheer miracle, and I've always been able to replace Windows Notepad with that so that IE "view source" opens right into it. I'm failing miserably to repeat that feat on the new PC, I suspect because I didn't copy the files over correctly. The weird thing is that EditPad is nevertheless there and works. It's just the Notepad replacement routine (http://www.notepad-replacements.com/notepadxp.html) that isn't playing ball.

However, I just noticed that although JGsoft isn't supporting EditPad Classic any more, it can still be downloaded from Tucows (http://www.tucows.com/preview/194615), which is where I got it in the first place, so maybe that's all I need to do. Wish I'd spotted that before I tried copying over the files.

I'll go through your advice, but the computer I bought was a business model that didn't seem to have quite so much bloatware as the home versions usually get. Though, what the hell is Roxio Creator and why does it keep trying to update itself then refusing to install unless I uninstall what the machine was shipped with only a week ago? And why do I want it?

And why does all this take so much time!!!

Rolfe.

[alfaniner]

Though, what the hell is Roxio Creator and why does it keep trying to update itself then refusing to install unless I uninstall what the machine was shipped with only a week ago? And why do I want it?


Trust me, you don't. Even if you paid for it.

[Rolfe]

Trust me, you don't. Even if you paid for it.


Not on purpose I didn't!

Ftp access restored. In fact the only bit of information I needed from Demon was the url for their server, which was on their web pages anyway. I knew my username and password. I need to stop and think sometimes.

WPX4 almost beaten into submission. I still think it's a bug, but it's consistent - it's only the buttons with the little drop-down menus at the side that are affected. But they've also removed the facility of free choice of font for buttons, which is a bit annoying. I'm still not sure it's worth shelling out so much money for though, when WP7 is working almost perfectly (apart from the open file feature), and my only gripe with it is that it's so damn old that it doesn't scroll with the centre wheel of the mouse.

It's amazing how much extra functionality is in WPX4 - most of which I probably wouldn't need or really want. The result is that each drop-down menu has so many options it's a bit daunting. Might be worth playing around though. I quite fancy the fully-functional pdf capabilities. I suppose Word is the same now, but as I obviously have a partial installation (of Word 97) at work, I'm not seeing any of that stuff. [Excuse me, I started that job in late 2006 and they gave me a spiffy new computer with Word 97 on it? I'm not the only Luddite round here.]

Well, I think I'll go and tackle the EditPad conundrum again. I already hit a file download that bloody Notepad truncated!! If all else fails, I'll buy EditPad Lite, which if nothing else will presumably get me support for the reinstallation.

Rolfe.

[Rolfe]

Uh, I now know what's wrong with the Notepad replacement routine. I'm just not techie enough to understand the explanation of the fix I found.

I'm going to start a new thread on this, in the hope of attracting as many people as possible who might have the answer.

All help gratefully appreciated.

Rolfe.

[SRW]

Did I miss something here? Is there a reason you did not use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard?

[Rolfe]

Did I miss something here? Is there a reason you did not use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard?


Well, maybe that was what I wanted to know. I don't know.

Rolfe.

[GreNME]

This is not true. None of the software packages I have installed on my MacBook (including stuff like Adobe Photoshop, Microsoft Office, Apple's iWork, and EndNote [which has to intimately interact with Office's Word and iWork's Pages]) needed to integrate into the operating system in any form or shape that's encountered in Windows. In fact, the kind of integration encountered in Windows is pretty much unique to Windows.

To transfer the applications to a new Mac, one simply has to copy them over. There are some libraries that do the integration between packages (like EndNote with installed word processors), but if missing, proper programmed applications (again, like EndNote) just rebuild those libraries by themselves in most cases. In fact, in pretty much all cases the 'install' on Mac OS X is a simple copy into the Applications folder (which requires admin privileges), but a great deal of application will also run without limits in other locations (where they can be put with normal user privileges). A lot of commercial applications still come with 'installers', but for the vast majority of applications those installers are not really necessary and are usually just scripts that combine copies to multiple locations or checks of already installed applications.

Wow, you really don't know that those *.app things you're copying over are both creating configuration files elsewhere on the system and are not the actual binaries themselves, do you?

I would agree with you in that the Mac OS makes going through the process of installing most software easier, but to say that software doesn't have to install the way that Windows software installs is just plain false (though likely false through ignorance).

[GreNME]

Did I miss something here? Is there a reason you did not use the Files and Settings Transfer Wizard?

The Files and Settings Transfer Wizard wouldn't have transferred the installed software.

[SRW]

The Files and Settings Transfer Wizard wouldn't have transferred the installed software.

True but it does transfer the settings so when the software is reinstalled it has the preferences ETC. much easier then screwing with the registry.

Eta. Also it will in many cases, transfer your security/licenses so you do not have to dig around for the software keys.
This does not always work.

[GreNME]

Good point about settings. I use it often when moving users to new computers with as little productivity loss as possible. However, getting licenses transferred is troublesome at best, so for me it's always better and less hassle to just reinstall appropriately where necessary. On the other hand, between preinstalled and volume licenses I deal with professionally it's far less trouble for me than it is for a home user. At my own home I have a Microsoft subscription due to my better half being a (web) developer, while my Macbook Pro has mostly open source software installed on it (aside from what comes with the MBP). I only use the transfer wizard in a professional setting for Windows, so I don't try to make it jump through too many hoops.

[elgarak]

Wow, you really don't know that those *.app things you're copying over are both creating configuration fileselsewhere on the systemWhich I have pointed out, but those are just config files and are not located in protected operating system folders (merely folders that Mac OS X has set aside for just that purpose), and do not overwrite operating system files (all things that do happen during a proper install on Windows) [provided the application is legit]. and are not the actual binaries themselves, do you?True, they are packages. But they contain all the binaries, and if I remove the package, the application is gone for all intents or purposes.

I would agree with you in that the Mac OS makes going through the process of installing most software easier, but to say that software doesn't have to install the way that Windows software installs is just plain false (though likely false through ignorance).
No. Just no. The installation process between Mac OS X and Windows is fundamentally different.

[GreNME]

Which I have pointed out, but those are just config files and are not located in protected operating system folders (merely folders that Mac OS X has set aside for just that purpose), and do not overwrite operating system files (all things that do happen during a proper install on Windows) [provided the application is legit]. True, they are packages. But they contain all the binaries, and if I remove the package, the application is gone for all intents or purposes.

You're wrong. Third party applications-- legitimate ones-- do not need to overwrite any operating system files. That you seem to be asserting that shows how little you actually understand. There are certain applications out there that I am not fond of who decide it's okay to place files in the system folder sometimes, but that's become practically verboten with newer applications (it's a throwback from the 9x days) and the "security" softwares that still do it are typically crap.

No. Just no. The installation process between Mac OS X and Windows is fundamentally different.

No, they really aren't. Program files installed to a program directory, and user/program config files installed to their respective locations as well-- often on the first time running the program. Not exactly the same in each, but the logic and schema are the same.

The procedure is different (and, I would agree, simpler). The process is relatively the same. The single largest difference between the Mac OS and Windows for this process is the registry versus .plist and .conf files-- which is two separate ways of doing basically the same thing.