The Emperor of the historical forgeries.

[Father Dagon]

Robert Faurisson is a never-was. David Irving is a housecat. Carlo Mattogno is a dork.

None of them isn't even close the mind-boggling insanity called phantom time hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis). Simply put, it states that a certain portion of time has been "folded" (or the historical records inflated, or whatever.) A relatively modest case of PTH is the Jehovah's Witnesses idea that some 20 years of history is inflated.

But the insanity of Anatoly Fomenko is truly something sublime to behold. In his New Chronology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)) in seven volumes he uses his vast and deep knowledge of *mathematics* to show why some 1000 years of history is fake.

[dudalb]

Fomenko is a special kind of wackjob.
And he is a favorite among Militant Russian Nationalists, because his New Chronlogy makes Holy Mother Russia pretty much the birthplace of most Western Culture.
And some of his supporters in the article forums at Wikipedia....just plain scary.

[dudalb]

Here is a excerpt from the wikipedia article on Formenko, just to give a taste of his wackiness:

Fomenko is a supporter of drastically revising chronological history. He has created his own revision called "New Chronology", based on statistical correlations, dating of zodiacs, and by examining the mathematics and astronomy involved in chronology. Fomenko claims that he has discovered that many historical events do not correspond mathematically with the dates they are supposed to have occurred on. He asserts from this that all of ancient history (including the history of Greece, Rome, and Egypt) is just a reflection of events that occurred in the Middle Ages and that all of Chinese and Arab history are fabrications of 17th and 18th century Jesuits. He also claims that Jesus lived in the 12th century A.D. and was crucified on Joshua's Hill; that the Trojan war and the Crusades were the same historical event; and that Genghis Khan and the Mongols were actually Russians. As well as disputing written chronologies, Fomenko also disputes more objective dating techniques such as dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating .

:eye-poppi:eye-poppi:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp:jaw-dropp

[al_capone_junior]

Robert Faurisson is a never-was. David Irving is a housecat. Carlo Mattogno is a dork.

None of them isn't even close the mind-boggling insanity called phantom time hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis). Simply put, it states that a certain portion of time has been "folded" (or the historical records inflated, or whatever.) A relatively modest case of PTH is the Jehovah's Witnesses idea that some 20 years of history is inflated.

But the insanity of Anatoly Fomenko is truly something sublime to behold. In his New Chronology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)) in seven volumes he uses his vast and deep knowledge of *mathematics* to show why some 1000 years of history is fake.

Fomenko is a special kind of wackjob.
And he is a favorite among Militant Russian Nationalists, because his New Chronlogy makes Holy Mother Russia pretty much the birthplace of most Western Culture.


Whack-job tries to rewrite history to suit own purposes

What's so unusual about that? :rolleyes:

[dudalb]

Because most wackjobs don't try to totally rewrite the history of civilization the way that Formenko does. The breadth of his wackiness is unique.

[Father Dagon]

Because most wackjobs don't try to totally rewrite the history of civilization the way that Formenko does. The breadth of his wackiness is unique.Yup.Wikipedia: Ancient coins in Greek and Latin are unearthed to this day in vast quantities from Britain to India. For Fomenko's theories to be correct, this could only be explained by counterfeit on a very grand and consistent scale, as well as a complete dismissal of all numismatic analyses of hoard findings, coin styles etc.Hence me calling Irving a housecat. The statistical correlation of dynasties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)#Statistical_correlation_o f_dynasties) is pretty neat. Too neat.

[Doctor Evil]

As someone who found* some ancient coins which were in terrible condition, I can state that no one sane would forge those. If you are interested these were small bronze coins. If you were lucky you could identify some markings on these, typically in Greek or Latin.

So I guess I have personally collected evidence that Fomenko is a nutjob. Call me surprised.

* To be honest, I was always terrible at finding these. Its more the people I was with who found the coins.

[Father Dagon]

Doctor Evil, I must say that your sisyphean avatar goes well with this thread. Let me explain:

Last summer I came to a manichean conclusion. It was nothing new, really. Just a crystallization and a naming of thoughts I've had for years.

I believe that life is an eternal struggle between good and evil, knowledge and ignorance etc. But, evil and ignorance will never be vanquished - otherwise the struggle wouldn't be eternal, right?

But if the bad things can constantly be pushed back and held in check it's a good thing. So as long as the net sum is positive, new problems isn't that bad. (50 years ago there was no computer viruses. But there was no MP3-players either.) Asimov takes a shot at various historical forgeries in one of his prequels to the Foundations. There's a planet with a movement called "globalists". They believe that there's only humans on this particular planet and that man's conquest of space and the galactic empire is just a hoax. The globalists are pretty harmless. Their activities is mostly limited to an annual dinner.

Even though New Chronology has sold in millions in Russia, I think that it's not really a big problem. (There's hundreds of millions of russian for starters.) It's too blatant a overrating of Russia. However, the far more subtle overratings are dangerous, as they seem far more plausible. And Russia isn't just one planet in the galaxy...

[ArmillarySphere]

Historical coinage is in fact so common that I think they're exempt from the usual law here in Sweden where all archeological findings older than <some date> have to be turned over to the government (with a reward given, reducing the temptation to hide it for auctioning). Basically, the museums have all they could ever want.

And we have Byzantine and Arab coins in Viking gravesites so old that only bones and metal remain.

[Father Dagon]

Also, Fomenko will have a hard time to explain various garbage piles. I think that there's one in Rome made of old amphoras.

[soikins]

Also, Fomenko will have a hard time to explain various garbage piles. I think that there's one in Rome made of old amphoras.

That's easy - the amphora's are from the Renaissance as there was no Ancient Rome, it's just an invention :p Of course, all dating methods are wrong. ;)

One of my favorite Fomenko methods is using art as evidence. For example, he takes a painting made in the Middle Ages and features some Old Testament legend. He observes that people in the painting are dressed like people dressed in the Middle Ages. What does Fomenko conclude? That the Old Testament tells about things that happened in the Middle Ages. :jaw-dropp

[dudalb]

And it is interesting that Russia is the dominant power and the source of all civilization in Formenko's world....
In fact, I think making Russia the source and center of all civilization might be the main emotional reason why Formenko's looniness has a large following in the Ex Soviet Union...

[Doctor Evil]

I believe that life is an eternal struggle between good and evil, knowledge and ignorance etc. But, evil and ignorance will never be vanquished - otherwise the struggle wouldn't be eternal, right?


Good and Evil are not terms I would use. I prefer rational and irrational, or evidence based knowledge and belief. In any case, I chose my avatar to describe my feelings on the battle against baseless beliefs.

The excellent book, "The name of the rose", is just about this theme. Maybe this is the reason I enjoyed it so much despite it being a typical Umberto Eco book, that it, quite hard to read.

[RobRoy]

Fomenko is a special kind of wackjob.
And he is a favorite among Militant Russian Nationalists, because his New Chronlogy makes Holy Mother Russia pretty much the birthplace of most Western Culture.

That's just silly. Everyone knows that the Scotland is the birthplace of Western Culture (http://www.amazon.com/How-Scots-Invented-Modern-World/dp/0609809997/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233344699&sr=1-1)!http://forums.invisionpower.com/uploads/post-71723-1118716631.gif

[Father Dagon]

Good and Evil are not terms I would use. I prefer rational and irrational, or evidence based knowledge and belief. In any case, I chose my avatar to describe my feelings on the battle against baseless beliefs.

The excellent book, "The name of the rose", is just about this theme. Maybe this is the reason I enjoyed it so much despite it being a typical Umberto Eco book, that it, quite hard to read.Good and evil, knowledge and ignorance, order and disorder, health and disease...the terms are pretty much interchangeable and are appliable to every walk of human life. If a janitor believes in a final victory over filth he should either get his head together or change job.

[RobRoy]

If a janitor believes in a final victory over filth he should either get his head together or change job.

You don't watch much "Scrubs", do you? :D
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/channelsurfing/uploaded_images/scrubs-787858.jpg

[bruto]

As someone who found* some ancient coins which were in terrible condition, I can state that no one sane would forge those. If you are interested these were small bronze coins. If you were lucky you could identify some markings on these, typically in Greek or Latin.

So I guess I have personally collected evidence that Fomenko is a nutjob. Call me surprised.

* To be honest, I was always terrible at finding these. Its more the people I was with who found the coins.

A good wackjob should be able to come up with an account of how, when and why the backdated coins were planted. They took a lesson from what a convincing job God did with the fossils.

[Father Dagon]

You don't watch much "Scrubs", do you? :D
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/channelsurfing/uploaded_images/scrubs-787858.jpgI've seen some "Scrubs". Is the janitor an utopianist?

[RobRoy]

I've seen some "Scrubs". Is the janitor an utopianist?

I think he's an agent of chaos more than anything else.

[LarianLeQuella]

He's Awesomesauce! That's what he is! :D

[Chaos]

I think he's an agent of chaos more than anything else.

I have NOTHING to do with that guy, whoever he is.

[RobRoy]

I have NOTHING to do with that guy, whoever he is.

That's not what I read on the bathroom wall. :D