The Cult.

[thaiboxerken]

S&S has indicated that several of us are in a cult... "the charlatan's cult". However, I have never heard of such a cult and I don't even know who the leader is. I don't even know who are the other members. S&S claims that I'm brainwashed by this cult, and yet I do not remember ever interacting with anyone from a cult. What is this mysterious cult? Who is the phantom leader of this cult? How did I become a part of the cult without knowledge of it? How does anyone become a member of this cult?

It's my opinion that S&S is merely trolling and calls anyone that doesn't agree with him as being a cult member of this mysterious cult made of his straw.

[Franko]

thaifoodweeny: (A-Theist Cult Member/Idiot)

S&S has indicated that several of us are in a cult... "the charlatan's cult". However, I have never heard of such a cult and I don't even know who the leader is. I don't even know who are the other members. S&S claims that I'm brainwashed by this cult, and yet I do not remember ever interacting with anyone from a cult. What is this mysterious cult? Who is the phantom leader of this cult? How did I become a part of the cult without knowledge of it? How does anyone become a member of this cult?

By pretending that you have magical "free willy" powers that you simply refuse to explain and then deny as magical. And by claiming that entire universes magically appear out of no where and then denying this is magical as well. If anyone ask -- just give them the usual A-Theist run-around.

Ohh, yes, and pretend that your direly pessimistic little cult is not a cult. Remember, once you sell your Soul to A-Theism, The TRUTH is the enemy. It must be defiled whenever possible, or Un-God gets very angry!

[Aoidoi]

I'm the VP of the cult. I get to take over if GREAT LEADER is incapacitated. Unfortunately since we're a secret cult I don't actually know who GREAT LEADER is, so my job is somewhat difficult.

Thankfully I get to hang out in the secret undisclosed location with Dick Cheney, who has a surprisingly good singing voice.

As to how do you get in the cult, well, we bribe the aliens with some cow parts and rednecks to pick you up and then erase the memory after we're done with the drinking and paddling. The best part is that we can keep indoctrinating members and they don't even know we did it before!

Betcha don't even remember that Area 51 has the biggest dance floor in the world and hot and cold runnning booze!

Edit: Franko is with our Disinformation Service. Sadly that's what happens when the aliens erase your mind a few too many times. Or maybe it was the margaritas at least years initiations. I kept telling him that turpentine is not a normal ingredient in mixed drinks...

[Franko]

As to how do you get in the cult, well, we bribe the aliens with some cow parts and rednecks to pick you up and then erase the memory after we're done with the drinking and paddling. The best part is that we can keep indoctrinating members and they don't even know we did it before!

Ohh, it's much simpler to join than that!

All you have to do is pretend that you have magic "free willy" powers and that you KNOW FOR FACT, there is no "god".

It also helps if you pretend that when a universe magically appears out of the void, that this is NOT magic. (you can believe that it is yourself, but just don't tell any of the other Religions you believe it is magic). It is very important that A-Theists always pretend that they don't believe in magic regardless of how much their religion actually depends on magic.

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Franko
All you have to do is pretend that you have magic "free willy" powers and that you KNOW FOR FACT, there is no "god".
You forgot the mandatory keg stand and jello shot tournament!

[Franko]

You forgot the mandatory keg stand and jello shot tournament!

You sure we are still talking about A-Theism?

There may some mandatory prozac involved, but beyond that ...

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Franko
You sure we are still talking about A-Theism?I'm talking about the Evil Cult of Doom (tm), I know your attention wanders.

There may some mandatory prozac involved, but beyond that ... Naw, that's just part of our Evil Conspiracy (tm) to rule the masses. You thought it was the Evil Corporations (tm)? Ha! It's been the Evil Atheist Non S&S Cult of Doom (tm) all along! Fools! I'll kill them all!

(This message brought to you by the Committee to Elect Aoidoi as GREAT LEADER)

[Keneke]

Originally posted by Franko
By pretending that you have magical "free willy" powers that you simply refuse to explain and then deny as magical.
This thread is tainted from conception and should be borbed. Apparently cultification of skeptical thought is simply another go-around of an argument repeated countless times in other threads.

[Franko]

yeah, tell me something I don't know.

A-Theism is the religion of Solipsism.

Don't worry, if you are an A-Theist, and you are reading this post, then YOU are the "great" cult leader. You are the leader, because no one else exist! We are all just figments of your imagination.

[Franko]

This thread is tainted from conception and should be borbed. Apparently cultification of skeptical thought is simply another go-around of an argument repeated countless times in other threads.

Hey don't blame ME because fanatical members of a specific nutty religious cult want to try and claim the mantel of Skepticism.

Honestly I am surprised that there aren't more real Skeptics in this forum standing up to the nonsense of this small, dangerous, and vocal fanatically religious completely non-skeptical minority.

But A-Theism is a Fear-based religion, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

[thaiboxerken]

By pretending that you have magical "free willy" powers that you simply refuse to explain and then deny as magical.

I don't believe in free will or magic.

And by claiming that entire universes magically appear out of no where and then denying this is magical as well.

I don't claim this either. I don't know how the universe came to be or if there was a time that it didn't exist.

If anyone ask -- just give them the usual A-Theist run-around.

What run-around?

Ohh, yes, and pretend that your direly pessimistic little cult is not a cult. Remember, once you sell your Soul to A-Theism, The TRUTH is the enemy. It must be defiled whenever possible, or Un-God gets very angry!

Oh, so you are calling atheism a cult. Well, at least I'm a little more clear. I don't agree though, as atheism isn't a club with rules, there isn't a leader we all follow or any doctrines. Also, I don't believe in souls.

What is "Un-God"?

[thaiboxerken]

yeah, tell me something I don't know.

A-Theism is the religion of Solipsism.

Ok, Solipsism is the belief that the only thing real is the self. I acknowledge the reality of many things outside of myself. I'm atheist, but I'm not Soliptist. Seems that your equivocation is false.

Don't worry, if you are an A-Theist, and you are reading this post, then YOU are the "great" cult leader. You are the leader, because no one else exist! We are all just figments of your imagination.

LOL. Yea, I wish you were just a figment of my imagination, I'd simply wish you out of existence.

[thaiboxerken]

But A-Theism is a Fear-based religion, so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.

Fear of what? Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods, many people are atheist simply because they are skeptical of the god or gods people make up. Skepticism and atheism go hand-in-hand.

It makes no sense to me, you say atheism is a fear-based religion.... yet you also claim that atheists are immoral because they fear no punishment from a god. You always are inconsistent, I expect you'll evade or ignore the point.

[Franko]

Franko:
[What makes an A-Theist a mystic …]By pretending that you have magical "free willy" powers that you simply refuse to explain and then deny as magical.

thaiboxerken:

I don't believe in free will or magic.

Really? So you are a Fatalist?

If that is True, then how can you claim that there is no evidence for “god”? Explain this to me …

TLOP (“God”) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR

If TLOP is controlling you, then how can TLOP be less conscious then YOU? Can you give me a single example of a less conscious entity controlling a more conscious one? Do children control adults? Do animals tend to control Humans, or is it the other way around?

Franko:
And by claiming that entire universes magically appear out of no where and then denying this is magical as well.

thaifoodkeeny: (A-Theist)
I don't claim this either. I don't know how the universe came to be or if there was a time that it didn't exist.

If you don’t know then why aren’t you honest about that? Why don’t you call yourself an AGNOSTIC (not enough information)?

The fact is that you are a dishonest nitwit. You want to pretend that you “know” more than you actually “know”.

Franko:
If anyone ask -- just give them the usual A-Theist run-around.

thaifoodkeeny: (A-Theist)
What run-around?

You really are dumb as dirt.

Franko:
Ohh, yes, and pretend that your direly pessimistic little cult is not a cult. Remember, once you sell your Soul to A-Theism, The TRUTH is the enemy. It must be defiled whenever possible, or Un-God gets very angry!

thaifoodkeeny: (A-Theist)
Oh, so you are calling atheism a cult. Well, at least I'm a little more clear. I don't agree though, as atheism isn't a club with rules …

More lies (or delusions). If you want to pretend that a person can be an A-Theist in a metaphysical vacuum, go right ahead. It is very obvious that A-Theists have no interest in what is actually True. You just make my point.

[Franko]

Franko: (Logical Deist)
A-Theism is the religion of Solipsism.

thaiboxerken: (A-Theist)
Ok, Solipsism is the belief that the only thing real is the self. I acknowledge the reality of many things outside of myself.

acknowledging is not the same as PROVING they are real. You cannot prove they are real, because if you are reading this post, then ONLY you are real and everyone else is a figment of your imagination.

I'm atheist, but I'm not Solipsist.

A-Theism and Solipsism are the same thing. You can go on pretending we are real if you wish, but eventually you will rediscover the TRUTH. You can only hide yourself from it for so long.

If you doubt that Solipsism and A-Theism are the same, then kindly point out ONE SINGLE prediction that A-Theism (or materialism) makes that Solipsism doesn’t also make and make more parsimoniously?

Seems that your equivocation is false.

it seems that you are delusional, and I am merely a figment of your imagination.

LOL. Yea, I wish you were just a figment of my imagination, I'd simply wish you out of existence.

Once you get control of your mind again you will do exactly that! Of course, you’ll just program me to reappear again … the next time you make yourself forget reality …

[Keneke]

edit: This board has the most neutral group of people out there, honestly. This is the only place I have found that has at least a modicum of true rational, skeptic thought. Yeah, there are trolls, but I'd rather have a few trolls than EVERYONE on the board giving me groupthink bulls**t.

[Aoidoi]

Sad. I keep telling them that the flashie thing will fry people's brains but would they listen? No! Now we've got Franko stuck in an infinite raving loop. I'll be sending Bob over with the BFG to correct the problem.

(aside to thaiboxerken: Sorry if you meant this to be a serious thread, but the comedic possibilities were just too much to resist.)

[Keneke]

Originally posted by Franko
acknowledging is not the same as PROVING they are real.
The same goes for anyone. Therefore, everyone is a solipsist through that reasoning. Theists, agnostics, everyone are solipsists, no exceptions. Kind of loses it's meaning after a while, huh?

If you doubt that Solipsism and A-Theism are the same, then kindly point out ONE SINGLE prediction that A-Theism (or materialism) makes that Solipsism doesn’t also make and make more parsimoniously?
That the world exists, and reality is not centrailzed? I don't know if atheism actually claims that though, but it seems like you are comparing apples to oranges. What does the disbelief in God have to do with the disbelief in all other realities but your self-awareness? Perhaps atheism is simply partial solipsism, the denial of a God-centered reality but not quite the acceptance of no others.

::sigh:: Fished in once again.

[Franko]

edit: This board has the most neutral group of people out there, honestly. This is the only place I have found that has at least a modicum of true rational, skeptic thought. Yeah, there are trolls, but I'd rather have a few trolls than EVERYONE on the board giving me groupthink ********.

Well its no Infidels.org if that's what you mean (thank the Goddess), but considering this is suppose to be the RELIGION & PHILOSOPHY section of a SKEPTICS forum I still find attempted cult takeover by the A-Theists an abomination.

Skepticism <> Atheism

If there was a large group of Scientologist (or some other cult) coming to this board insulting anyone who disagreed with them, and claiming that Scientology was the only True non-religion for any True Skeptic, you would see a huge outcry, but since Randi himself and JREF itself are sympathetic to this particular cult, I guess the A-Theists get a pass.

[Franko]

That the world exists, and reality is not centrailzed? I don't know if atheism actually claims that though, but it seems like you are comparing apples to oranges. What does the disbelief in God have to do with the disbelief in all other realities but your self-awareness? Perhaps atheism is simply partial solipsism, the denial of a God-centered reality but not quite the acceptance of no others.

One way or the other "God" exist. The only question that remains is whether or not anyone else actually exist other than YOU to fill the position?

[Thanz]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken

What is "Un-God"?

Ungod is the excellent first album by the band Stabbing Westward.

Glad I could help.

[thaiboxerken]

Really? So you are a Fatalist?

No, I don't believe in Fate either.


TLOP (“God”) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR

If TLOP is controlling you, then how can TLOP be less conscious then YOU? Can you give me a single example of a less conscious entity controlling a more conscious one? Do children control adults? Do animals tend to control Humans, or is it the other way around?

You use the same fallicious arguements against people that believe in free-will as well. I'll not even address this except to say that your equivocation of "control" is fallacy.


If you don’t know then why aren’t you honest about that? Why don’t you call yourself an AGNOSTIC (not enough information)?

I don't know, and I don't believe in a god. I am atheist because I don't believe in a god.


The fact is that you are a dishonest nitwit. You want to pretend that you “know” more than you actually “know”.


How so?


You really are dumb as dirt.

This really doesn't hurt me, since you are a garbage man and I'm a fuel-cell tech.


More lies (or delusions). If you want to pretend that a person can be an A-Theist in a metaphysical vacuum, go right ahead. It is very obvious that A-Theists have no interest in what is actually True. You just make my point.

Maybe some atheists, but all it takes to be atheist is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

[thaiboxerken]

acknowledging is not the same as PROVING they are real. You cannot prove they are real, because if you are reading this post, then ONLY you are real and everyone else is a figment of your imagination.

Where, in your little mind, did you come up with the assumption that one must prove their beliefs in order to believe them. Sorry, but your arguement completely is void of anything intelligent.


A-Theism and Solipsism are the same thing. You can go on pretending we are real if you wish, but eventually you will rediscover the TRUTH. You can only hide yourself from it for so long.

I believe you are a real person, I believe in more than just myself, whether this belief if rational or not doesn't matter. The fact that I believe in more than myself means I cannot be Soliptic.

If you doubt that Solipsism and A-Theism are the same, then kindly point out ONE SINGLE prediction that A-Theism (or materialism) makes that Solipsism doesn’t also make and make more parsimoniously?

Solipsism- The belief that only the self is real.

Atheistm- Lack of belief in a god or gods.

The 2 terms have nothing to do with each other, however, one can be Soliptic and Atheist at the same time. I am just atheist, though.

it seems that you are delusional, and I am merely a figment of your imagination.

If you are just a figment of my imagination, then go away.


Once you get control of your mind again you will do exactly that! Of course, you’ll just program me to reappear again … the next time you make yourself forget reality …

Why do you insist on converting me to Solipsism? I believe that there is more to the world than just me, in fact, the evidence points to it. Please quit assigning me my beliefs, I know what they are and don't need you to try and state them for me because you have no idea what they are.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Franko


but since Randi himself and JREF itself are sympathetic to this particular cult, I guess the A-Theists get a pass.

Not only are they sympathetic, but Randi is an atheist and many in his organization are atheist as well.

[Franko]

thaiboxerken: (self contradicting A-Theist)
I don't believe in free will

Franko: (Logical Deist)
Really? So you are a Fatalist?

thaifoodkenny: (A-Theist)
No, I don't believe in Fate either.

So you believe that when a coin is flipped it won’t land HEADS or TAILS? Wow, I wish I could be a “smart” (delusional) A-Theist like You. :rolleyes:

I guess it is easy to pretend that your beliefs are better than everyone else’s when you first pretend that you don’t believe ANYTHING. But you have been predictable in you’re a-Theism in that A-Theists are inherently intellectually dishonest regarding what they truly believe. You can look at Trixy, or MRC, or Upchurch, as perfect examples of this. There is nothing an A-Theists hates more than clearly stating his position on any issue.


thaifoodkenny: (A-Theist)
Solipsism is the belief that the only thing real is the self. I acknowledge the reality of many things outside of myself.

Franko: (Logical Deist)
acknowledging is not the same as PROVING they are real. You cannot prove they are real, because if you are reading this post, then ONLY you are real and everyone else is a figment of your imagination.

thaifoodkenny: (A-Theist)
Where, in your little mind, did you come up with the assumption that one must prove their beliefs in order to believe them.

Ohh, I’m sorry I thought this was a SKEPTICS forum!

So you are conceding that you cannot prove any of your whacky religious beliefs? You just believe these things based on NO EVIDENCE? How does that make you ANY different than any other dogmatic Theist?

Franko: (Logical Deist)
If TLOP is controlling you, then how can TLOP be less conscious then YOU? Can you give me a single example of a less conscious entity controlling a more conscious one? Do children control adults? Do animals tend to control Humans, or is it the other way around?

thaifoodkenny: (A-Theist)
You use the same fallicious arguements against people that believe in free-will as well. I'll not even address this except to say that your equivocation of "control" is fallacy.

So by your definition of the term “control” The Laws of Physics are NOT “controlling” You? Do you control the laws of Physics (TLOP) then? Can you climb to the top of a tall building, jump from the roof, and then control TLOP on the way down? If not, why not?

Franko: (Logical Deist)
If you don’t know then why aren’t you honest about that? Why don’t you call yourself an AGNOSTIC (not enough information)?

thaifoodkenny: (A-Theist)
I don't know, and I don't believe in a god. I am atheist because I don't believe in a god.

Believing there is no “god” based on no evidence is as illogical as believing that there is a “god” based on no evidence. In fact, since you are being inherently pessimistic, I would say that it is even more illogical.

Do you also not believe in the existence of “aliens” ? There is no evidence for “aliens”. How do you account for all of those A-Theists working at SETI?

Do you believe that coins ALWAYS land TAILS up because there is no evidence they will land HEADS up? Essentially that is what you are claiming in regard to God. It makes you look like a religious nitwit, but since you are an A-Theist (and A-Theists are inherently evil) I find it rather amusing. You serve my purpose regardless of whether you realize it or not.

Franko: (Logical Deist)
The fact is that you are a dishonest nitwit. You want to pretend that you “know” more than you actually “know”.


How so?


Because you dishonestly tell people that there is no god and that this is a “scientific” conclusion on your part. It is not a scientific conclusion at all. It is simply religious dogma and fanaticism on your part. Believing that something is FALSE based on no evidence is just as foolish as believing that something is TRUE based on no evidence. Pretending you have done otherwise is a blatant lie. Going to a Skeptics forum and pretending you have done otherwise is simply stupid and foolish.

Franko: (Logical Deist)
More lies (or delusions). If you want to pretend that a person can be an A-Theist in a metaphysical vacuum, go right ahead. It is very obvious that A-Theists have no interest in what is actually True. You just make my point.

thaifoodkenny: (brainwashed A-Theist)
Maybe some atheists, but all it takes to be atheist is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Really? So once someone becomes an A-Theist can they still maintain their belief in the Christian creation myth? An A-Theists doesn’t also need a new way for the Universe to have materialized (been created)? How about the Soul? How many A-Theists on this forum believe in the Soul? How many A-Theists can you produce who believe in the Soul? How about Fatalism? Can an A-Theist still believe in Fatalism? I don’t see how? Can an A-Theist believe that there is a meaning to existence? How? What meaning?

You can kid yourself if you want A-Theist, but no one with a brain is buying your nonsense. To be honest I can’t even fathom how you could be stupid enough to believe the nonsense you are spouting.

Franko: (Logical Deist)
A-Theism and Solipsism are the same thing. You can go on pretending we are real if you wish, but eventually you will rediscover the TRUTH. You can only hide yourself from it for so long.

thaifoodkenny: (brainwashed A-Theist)
I believe you are a real person, I believe in more than just myself, whether this belief if rational or not doesn't matter. The fact that I believe in more than myself means I cannot be Soliptic.

So if you believe that you can fly that means you can fly? Like I said, Solipsism is TRUE if you are reading this now.

Just because you want to pretend that Solipsism is not True doesn’t mean that Solipsism is NOT TRUE. If you really want to ensure that Solipsism is False, then you will have to PROVE that Solipsism is FALSE. I happen to know that I am merely a figment of your imagination, so I know that you will be unable to prove Solipsism False.

Franko: (Logical Deist)
If you doubt that Solipsism and A-Theism are the same, then kindly point out ONE SINGLE prediction that A-Theism (or materialism) makes that Solipsism doesn’t also make and make more parsimoniously?

thaifoodkenny: (brainwashed A-Theist)
Solipsism- The belief that only the self is real.

Atheistm- Lack of belief in a god or gods.

The 2 terms have nothing to do with each other, however, one can be Soliptic and Atheist at the same time. I am just atheist, though.

No, you are a Solipsist pretending to be an A-Theist.

Atheist = A-Theist = A Theist = One Theist = YOU = God = The Solipsist

Pretend all you want A-Theist … I’m not real enough to care.

Once you get control of your mind again you will do exactly that! Of course, you’ll just program me to reappear again … the next time you make yourself forget reality …

Why do you insist on converting me to Solipsism? I believe that there is more to the world than just me, in fact, the evidence points to it. Please quit assigning me my beliefs, I know what they are and don't need you to try and state them for me because you have no idea what they are.

Hey, I am YOUR figment, Bud. If you don’t want me intruding in on your delusions, then you should stop imaging me.

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
S&S has indicated that several of us are in a cult... "the charlatan's cult".


Yes , and you are a proud member.

the charlatan wrote:
This is a forum, not a cult. If it was a cult, you would've been banned by now.

Where is your evidence that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult?

You are a member of your charlatan's cult.
The ones that can not provide evidences or arguments , just cryings and bla bla bla.
Pseudo -skeptic , true beleiver and liar. Be more original.
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14066

Thanks,
S&S

[neutrino_cannon]

Of course Randi is the cult leader! That is why his forum swarms with the members of his little sect!

This could almost be moved to the flame wars but that the flames are non-recipricol (yeah yeah, lear how to spell).

I don't beleive myself the member of any cult, and atheism certainly lacks cult structure. In fact, it lacks any structure. Look at rev. thai. I really don't agree with many of his ideas, although I'm sure he has great reasons for them. These reasons either were never presented to me, or simply don't make as much sense to me as the ones I already hold true.

Which doesn't mean I'm closed minded.

The point is, that unlike a cult, there is a spectrum of ideas and opoinions from diverse sources. These intermingle, and sometimes produce useful offspring. Sometimes not, in total defference to a cult.

To say that atheism is a cult is innacurate, and severly insulting. Please stop.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by S&amp;S

You are a member of your charlatan's cult.
The ones that can not provide evidences or arguments , just cryings and bla bla bla.
Pseudo -skeptic , true beleiver and liar. Be more original.
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14066

Thanks,
S&S

Again, all this is is evidence of your losing a debate. I'm not a member of a cult. I have no leader.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by neutrino_cannon


To say that atheism is a cult is innacurate, and severly insulting. Please stop.

The insult is precisely the reason these people say it.

[thaiboxerken]

"So you believe that when a coin is flipped it won’t land HEADS or TAILS? Wow, I wish I could be a “smart” (delusional) A-Theist like You. "

Did I even mention a coin? Why do you insist on these straw-man tactics?

"I guess it is easy to pretend that your beliefs are better than everyone else’s when you first pretend that you don’t believe ANYTHING. "

I have stated that I believe that there is more to the universe than just me. I don't believe in fate or free-will.


" But you have been predictable in you’re a-Theism in that A-Theists are inherently intellectually dishonest regarding what they truly believe. "

No, you just can't seem to get it into your head that an atheist simply is a person that doesn't believe in yours or any other's god.

"You can look at Trixy, or MRC, or Upchurch, as perfect examples of this. There is nothing an A-Theists hates more than clearly stating his position on any issue."

Those three individuals have clear and concise positions, you just don't accept them and cannot seem to understand them.

"Ohh, I’m sorry I thought this was a SKEPTICS forum!

So you are conceding that you cannot prove any of your whacky religious beliefs?"

I have no religious beliefs.

"You just believe these things based on NO EVIDENCE? How does that make you ANY different than any other dogmatic Theist?"

All of my beliefs are based on evidence, you just don't agree with the conclusions drawn from the available evidence and you can't even explain why.

"So by your definition of the term “control” The Laws of Physics are NOT “controlling” You?"

No, the laws of physics do not exert control over anything. TLOP are simply the way things are, how the universe operates..it's not a mechanism that tells people what to do.


"Can you climb to the top of a tall building, jump from the roof, and then control TLOP on the way down?"

No person can control the laws of physics, nor can they operate outside of these "laws". You simply can't get it through your thick head that TLOP are simply observations of how the universe operates. TLOP doesn't tell people to fall down, they just do if the required conditions are met. If TLOP actually had a consciousness and exerted conscious control over the universe, you'd see exceptions.. like TLOP would suspend people in mid-air sometimes because they happen to be special. It doesn't happen because TLOP are simply the way things are.

"Believing there is no “god” based on no evidence is as illogical as believing that there is a “god” based on no evidence."

There is no evidence of a god, therefore I don't believe in one.. just like I don't believe in pixies or fairies. I will say these things don't exist because there is no evidence of them. The null position is to not believe in these things, the burden of evidence is on those that claim such things exist.

"In fact, since you are being inherently pessimistic, I would say that it is even more illogical. "

Pessimism plays no part in my non-belief of god.

"Do you also not believe in the existence of “aliens” ? There is no evidence for “aliens”. How do you account for all of those A-Theists working at SETI?"

No, I don't believe in the existence of aliens. There is no evidence of such beings. I think SETI is a waste of time and money, and there is no practical reason for such an organization.

"Do you believe that coins ALWAYS land TAILS up because there is no evidence they will land HEADS up?"

No, I think that the odds are roughly 50%.

"Essentially that is what you are claiming in regard to God. It makes you look like a religious nitwit, but since you are an A-Theist (and A-Theists are inherently evil) I find it rather amusing. You serve my purpose regardless of whether you realize it or not."

It's not the same thing, there is no evidence of gods, pixies or fairies. It's not a 50% chance of being wrong, scientific knowledge is not a wager but a search for truth. You have no evidence of a god.

"Because you dishonestly tell people that there is no god and that this is a “scientific” conclusion on your part. It is not a scientific conclusion at all. "

No, science does not make the assertion that there is no god. Science doesn't even deal with mythology. Sorry, you lose. I simply don't believe in a god because there is no evidence.

"Really? So once someone becomes an A-Theist can they still maintain their belief in the Christian creation myth? "

That would require a god belief. One cannot believe that a god created the world and be atheist.

"An A-Theists doesn’t also need a new way for the Universe to have materialized (been created)? "

Nope, an atheist can simply not care. I don't care how the universe came to be, it really doesn't affect my life at all. I don't know the origins of the universe, nor do I make assertions on how it did come about.

"How about the Soul? How many A-Theists on this forum believe in the Soul? "

Yes, a person can believe in a soul and be atheist. Such a person can believe in an afterlife that has nothing to do with gods. Such people are rare because many atheists tend not to believe in such nonsense.

"How about Fatalism? Can an A-Theist still believe in Fatalism? I don’t see how?"

I don't think so, since Fate is a god. One cannot believe in a god and be atheist.

" Can an A-Theist believe that there is a meaning to existence? How? What meaning?"

I believe my meaning of existence is to become a millionaire, I've assigned that meaning to myself. People assign their meanings to exist based on many things, not just gods.

"You can kid yourself if you want A-Theist, but no one with a brain is buying your nonsense."

Many here have brains, you are one of the minority that doesn't accept atheism for what it is.

"Just because you want to pretend that Solipsism is not True doesn’t mean that Solipsism is NOT TRUE. If you really want to ensure that Solipsism is False, then you will have to PROVE that Solipsism is FALSE. I happen to know that I am merely a figment of your imagination, so I know that you will be unable to prove Solipsism False."

I don't need to prove Solipsism false in order to not accept or believe it. If this was true, then you'd need to prove all religions false in order not to accept them. I am not a Soliptist, it doesn't matter why I don't believe that philosophy, simply not accepting the Soliptic philosophy is enough to disqualify me of being a Soliptist.


Atheist = without god.

Solipisism = only I exist.

They don't even come close to being similar.

[Akots]

"So you believe that when a coin is flipped it won’t land HEADS or TAILS? Wow, I wish I could be a “smart” (delusional) A-Theist like You. "

That's strange... I seem to remember giving Franko this as an answer to if i could predict a coin flip... I predicted the coin would come up heads, or it would come up tails, or it would land balanced on edge.

Has he absorbed a part of my brain?

As for cultism, Atheist hardly qualifies. If it does, then it is abeneficial cult, to say the least.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken

"You can look at Trixy, or MRC, or Upchurch, as perfect examples of this. There is nothing an A-Theists hates more than clearly stating his position on any issue."

Those three individuals have clear and concise positions
Hey, thanks! One tries to do one's best.


"Do you believe that coins ALWAYS land TAILS up because there is no evidence they will land HEADS up?"

No, I think that the odds are roughly 50%.

"Essentially that is what you are claiming in regard to God.
Hey, I've got a coin (a dime) right here.

[flip] Tails
[flip] Tails
[flip] Tails
[flip] Tails
[flip] Tails
[flip] Heads
[flip] Tails
[flip] Tails
[flip] Tails
[flip] Heads

Okay, of 10 trials (please excuse the low sample size), we have 20% Heads and 80% tails. There now evidence for a coin landing both Heads up and Tails up. How is this applicable to God and how do we go about flipping him or her?

Seriously though, we see that there is evidence that a coin can land either heads or tails. (None of my trials landed "on edge", but that may be due to the low sample size.) To be analagous to "There is a God" and "There isn't a God", we'd have to show that the possibility exists for both.

On the side of "There isn't a God", we have a large body of science-based research which, while some-what incomplete, does fairly well in describing and predicting the universe and in no way depends on the existance of a God. Thus, while not proof that there is no God, this shows that the universe could exist exactly as we see it without the existance of a God. The possiblity exists.

On the side of "There is a God", I'm quite possitive that I can't provide the best argument for the possibility that God exists, but I'm willing to conceed that there is a possibility. (if someone wants to fill in this blank with more details, feel free. I just don't like putting words in people's mouths.)

Unlike the coin toss, we can't assume that each option is equally weighted statistically. Ultimately, we must decide on a mechanism for testing one or each hypothesis. The proper thing would be to test the positive hypothesis, "There is a God".

So, how do we find the right "coin" to "flip"? I'd think the first step is to define what we mean when we say "God is". Since this is not my hypothesis, I can't define it. Anyone care to give it a go? Something that is testable that we can all agree on?

(I suppose we go about testing every testable definition of God until we run out of options or we actually find one.)

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Franko

You can look at Trixy, or MRC, or Upchurch, as perfect examples of this. There is nothing an A-Theists hates more than clearly stating his position on any issue.

Originally posted by Upchurch

Hey, thanks! One tries to do one's best.
Hey! Do you think maybe we could be an "Axis of Evil"? I've always wanted to be one.

We could each choose a task, either rape, pillage or plunder. Since I thought of the idea, I get to pick first.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Tricky

We could each choose a task, either rape, pillage or plunder. Since I thought of the idea, I get to pick first.
Couldn't I just be the one who askes questions that people rarely have answers to?

[Graham]

Not to interrupt, or anything, but has it ever occured to any of you at any point that this could actually be a cult?

Thaiboxerken said:

S&S has indicated that several of us are in a cult... "the charlatan's cult". However, I have never heard of such a cult and I don't even know who the leader is. I don't even know who are the other members. S&S claims that I'm brainwashed by this cult, and yet I do not remember ever interacting with anyone from a cult. What is this mysterious cult? Who is the phantom leader of this cult? How did I become a part of the cult without knowledge of it? How does anyone become a member of this cult?

Let's imagine for a moment that the JREF is actually a cult. It's pretty obvious who the cult leader is in this scenario. Moderators and possibly long-term members of the boards are the inner adherents.

In S&S's thread on the subject, cults were defined in various ways primarily money-grabbing and leader-worshipping (I think,though I must confess I can't bring myself to read the whole thing).

Now we would say (presumably) that the JREF doesn't display any of these qualities. But doesn't display them to who? And how do we, as individual members, know that the JREF is not displaying them to other members?

Would the JREF tell us if it was - unlikely, they would keep their nefarious activities to themselves until the time came to draw us further into the cult. Would the members in question tell us? Again unlikely, as the JREF would likely include some sort of restriction in their membership vows or whatever or at least hold some threat over their heads, were they to spill the beans.

Maybe the JREF is screwing money out of members, maybe Randi is the figurehead of a cult. I'm not saying it is or even is at all likely that that's the case but I think you have to admit that it is possible and that there might be no way we would know until we were already to deeply involved to escape.

Remember, it's not paranoia if it's true ;)

Graham

[Franko]

Akots: (A-Theist)

That's strange... I seem to remember giving Franko this as an answer to if i could predict a coin flip... I predicted the coin would come up heads, or it would come up tails, or it would land balanced on edge.

Has he absorbed a part of my brain?

I am just a figment of your imagination ... don't you remember?

[thaiboxerken]

I very much doubt that JREF is a cult, as cults do not allow interaction with those that disagree with the cult. For example, go to a scientology board and tell them that it's crap and you'll be banned.

This forum, which is moderated by many atheists, has not and does not censor and ban people for believing in a god or even insults against atheists. An atheist cult would have gotten rid of these whacky theists long ago.

[Franko]

Franko:
So you believe that when a coin is flipped it won’t land HEADS or TAILS? Wow, I wish I could be a “smart” (delusional) A-Theist like You.

thaifoodkenny:
Did I even mention a coin? Why do you insist on these straw-man tactics?

1) God Exist = True: (HEADS) Theism/Deism
2) God Exist = False (TAILS) A-Theism
3) God Exist = Unknown (NO CALL) Agnosticism

You claiming that no evidence for “God” proves that no “God” exist is as absurd as someone claiming that tossed coins always land TAILS up because there is no evidence they ever land HEADS up. If you want to pretend that this isn’t True then you can “starwman” yourself silly for all I care.

Franko:
I guess it is easy to pretend that your beliefs are better than everyone else’s when you first pretend that you don’t believe ANYTHING. "

thaifoodkenny:
I have stated that I believe that there is more to the universe than just me. I don't believe in fate or free-will.

So you don’t believe that a tossed coin will land either HEADS or TAILS now? Like I said, you are retarded.

“free will” and Fate are mutually exclusive binary options. Either one is True, or the other is. If you can’t see it, then you really aren’t very bright at all.

Franko:
But you have been predictable in you’re a-Theism in that A-Theists are inherently intellectually dishonest regarding what they truly believe. "

thaifoodkenny:
No, you just can't seem to get it into your head that an atheist simply is a person that doesn't believe in yours or any other's god.

Yes, and for no reason what-so-ever according to you. Very “logical” … :rolleyes:

Kenny believing in Un-God for no reason is far, far stupidier than believing in “God” for no reason. But don’t let me pee on your pouty little pessimism parade.

Franko:
You can look at Trixy, or MRC, or Upchurch, as perfect examples of this. There is nothing an A-Theists hates more than clearly stating his position on any issue."

thaifoodkenny:
Those three individuals have clear and concise positions, you just don't accept them and cannot seem to understand them.

Well if you are claiming to understand them so well, perhaps you can explain their positions to me?

I have no religious beliefs.

I’d say a religious belief is something you believe based on NO Evidence.

So what is your evidence that there is no “God”. I am betting you have NONE, religious fanatic! But feel free to prove me wrong.

Franko:
You just believe these things based on NO EVIDENCE? How does that make you ANY different than any other dogmatic Theist?"

thaifoodkenny:
All of my beliefs are based on evidence, you just don't agree with the conclusions drawn from the available evidence and you can't even explain why.

I can explain why:

Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of atoms.
YOU OBEY TLOP!

TLOP (“God”) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR

In the same way that YOU are more conscious then CAR, TLOP is more conscious then YOU. TLOP is a superior controlling force, and it is impossible for something less conscious to control something more conscious. To claim otherwise is to demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding regarding consciousness.

What is the YOU making decisions Kenny? There is no YOU, there is only your physical brain made of atoms, and those atoms obey the same laws of chemistry that any other chemicals obey. You aren’t making any decisions my boy, chemistry is making all of your decisions for You!

Franko:
So by your definition of the term “control” The Laws of Physics are NOT “controlling” You?"

thaiflavorednitwit:
No, the laws of physics do not exert control over anything.

Yeah, and you call yourself “scientific”??? Jump off the roof of a tall building and try telling yourself that the laws of Physics don’t control anything you stupid A-Theist moron!

thaifoodkenny:
TLOP are simply the way things are, how the universe operates..it's not a mechanism that tells people what to do.

Yeah, but it is definitely a mechanism that tells Atoms (chemicals0 what to do, and since you are NOTHING but atoms (chemicals) then I would say TLOP is DEFINITELY telling you what to do. If not TLOP then where is the YOU? Are you claiming to have a “Soul” Kenny? Because that is what it sounds like you are claiming.

To be honest I don’t think you have ever given your beliefs much thought. I think you have simply allowed yourself to be brainwashed by A-Theists because you thought they were “smarter” than you. … you were probably correct. :rolleyes:

Franko:
Can you climb to the top of a tall building, jump from the roof, and then control TLOP on the way down?"

thaifoodkenny:
No person can control the laws of physics, nor can they operate outside of these "laws".

Really??? Contradicting yourself so soon you stupid A-Theist idiot?!?!

thaiflavorednitwit:
the laws of physics do not exert control over anything.

thaiflavorednitwit:
No person can control the laws of physics, nor can they operate outside of these "laws".

I guess it is easy to be an A-Theist, all you have to do is convince yourself that “UP” is “DOWN”, “BLACK” is “WHITE”, “Good” is “Evil”.

[Graham]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I very much doubt that JREF is a cult, as cults do not allow interaction with those that disagree with the cult. For example, go to a scientology board and tell them that it's crap and you'll be banned.

This forum, which is moderated by many atheists, has not and does not censor and ban people for believing in a god or even insults against atheists. An atheist cult would have gotten rid of these whacky theists long ago.

Maybe it's just a particularly clever cult.

Have you ever seen that movie "The Princess Bride" where the Sicilian (sp?) and the man in black are matching wits to see who gets the Princess? The man in black places two cups on the table, one contains poison the other doesn't the Sicilian (or was he Corsican?) has to use his wits to figure out which one is which. He develops a complicated double-triple-quadruple-blind theory and then switches the cups while the man in black is distracted. It turns out both cups are poisoned but the man in black has an immunity - Inconceivable!

Anyway, the point is, maybe the whole "we dig free speech" thing is just a comlicated blind . . .

[Keneke]

Cult (definition 3), adj: Obsessive devotion to a person or principle. (American Heritage, 3rd ed.)

So, yeah, we're a cult. So is any group obsessed with something, such as anime otaku fans and fantasy football leagues. ;)

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Graham

Inconceivable!
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Graham]

Originally posted by Upchurch

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

"Hallo. My name is Inigo Montoya - you keeled my father, prepare to die."

Classic. If you haven't read the book, btw, I'd strongly recommend it. It's, well, it's . . . different. Very enjoyable though, especially if you're a fan of the movie, I'd say.

Graham

[Aoidoi]

Well, since this thread has not turned out nearly as silly as I had originally hoped, I suppose I'll have to try to make some sort of rational point instead of arguing that Franko is a wacked out herione addict. Because, you see, either he is (Heads) or he isn't (tails) and just because we have no evidence one way or the other... ;)

Franko, your entire coin flipping analogy is just a False Dichotomy. Does God exist is not really a binary question unless you specify the exact details of God so that there's no options besides yes or no. For instance, say Zeus (as specifically described by the ancient greeks) does, in fact exist. Does that make the answer to "Does God exist?" a yes or no? Say you specify a Christian God. And it turns out the Mormon's have the correct theology. Does God Exist? Not the God most people are worshipping, but the Mormons would be thrilled, I suppose.

For that matter, what if your Logical Goddess exists? What then is the answer to the question?

There is also the matter of probability vs. fact. Will a stochastic process have outcome x is a probabilistic question, what year did Henry VIII die is not. Either way you feel on the question of the existence of a God I sincerely doubt you'll have many people argue that his existency is a probabalistic function. If it ever was, one would assume it's long since been determined.

[Franko]

Aoidoi: (Another A-Theist idiot)
Well, since this thread has not turned out nearly as silly as I had originally hoped, I suppose I'll have to try to make some sort of rational point instead of arguing that Franko is a wacked out herione addict. Because, you see, either he is (Heads) or he isn't (tails) and just because we have no evidence one way or the other...

So believing the most pessimistic view for no reason makes you an A-Theist. That is the True definition of an A-Theist. An A-Theist is a person who ALWAYS believes that bad things are going to happen to them. They believe this, because they know it is their ultimate Destiny.

Franko, your entire coin flipping analogy is just a False Dichotomy. Does God exist is not really a binary question unless you specify the exact details of God so that there's no options besides yes or no.

Not if you phrase the question as:

Does ANY “God” (or “gods”) exist? Where “God” is defined as a Superior Entity capable of generating a Universe. This is a Yes or No question. It must be either Yes or No, there is no possible way for it to be both True and False, or neither True or False.

For instance, say Zeus (as specifically described by the ancient greeks) does, in fact exist. Does that make the answer to "Does God exist?" a yes or no?

If Zeus is an entity capable of generating a Universe and Zeus could be shown to exist, then that would be a YES.

Say you specify a Christian God. And it turns out the Mormon's have the correct theology. Does God Exist?

The Mormons are Christians. If their “God” exists then the Christian God exists.

Not the God most people are worshipping, but the Mormons would be thrilled, I suppose.

You really think that Catholics would die and find themselves in Heaven, and find out that they were mostly correct, but that Mormonism is in fact more accurate are going to be “upset” by this revelation?

Believe me A-Theist they wouldn’t be nearly as ‘upset” as you would.

For that matter, what if your Logical Goddess exists? What then is the answer to the question?

The LG is definitely capable of generating a universe, and She definitely exists.

There is also the matter of probability vs. fact. Will a stochastic process have outcome x is a probabilistic question, what year did Henry VIII die is not.

How can a truly stochastic (random) process result in a Deterministic outcome? Obviously you have no comprehension of what you are talking about. A-Theists, like all pseudo-scientific and mystical cults, are forced to rely on Quantum confusion as the basis of their invisible magic powers.

Either way you feel on the question of the existence of a God I sincerely doubt you'll have many people argue that his existency is a probabalistic function. If it ever was, one would assume it's long since been determined.

My God exist, because your God (“free willy”) does not exist. It is as simple as that A-Theist. But you aren’t very smart, and you have been brainwashed, so I don’t expect you possess the perception to see it.

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Franko
So believing the most pessimistic view for no reason makes you an A-Theist. That is the True definition of an A-Theist. An A-Theist is a person who ALWAYS believes that bad things are going to happen to them. They believe this, because they know it is their ultimate Destiny. Another strawman. Not to mention irrelevant.

Not if you phrase the question as:Yes, you have to rephrase the question. That's what I was saying.

Does ANY “God” (or “gods”) exist? Where “God” is defined as a Superior Entity capable of generating a Universe.There you go, you've decreased one possible variable.

This is a Yes or No question. It must be either Yes or No, there is no possible way for it to be both True and False, or neither True or False. It is a yes or no question, but a still a relatively meaningless one without more detail. What else is your God capable of? Can He interact with humanity? Can He send prophets? Can he appear to people as a burning bush, a swan, a bull, a vision?

Remember, if the answer to your question is yes, it proves none of the above. You are arguing solely that a creator exists, and cannot speculate on the properties of that deity based on this sole question.

If Zeus is an entity capable of generating a Universe and Zeus could be shown to exist, then that would be a YES. Really. So why don't you worship Zeus?

The Mormons are Christians.<chuckle> Well that's a matter of opinion. I've heard Baptists argue that Catholics aren't Christian, and the Mormons are way further out, but nonetheless...
If their “God” exists then the Christian God exists. Great. Why don't you worship the Christian God?

You really think that Catholics would die and find themselves in Heaven, and find out that they were mostly correct, but that Mormonism is in fact more accurate are going to be “upset” by this revelation?Now you've postulated both that Heaven exists and that Catholics would find themselves in a Mormon heaven. If we're going to speculate I'd imagine the Catholics who end up in a Mormon Hell would be pretty pissed off about the whole thing.

Believe me A-Theist they wouldn’t be nearly as ‘upset” as you would. Heh, have you seen South Park's movie? I can't imagine anyone sane enjoying that version of Mormon heaven. But again, this is utter speculation.

The LG is definitely capable of generating a universe, and She definitely exists. Oh? And what shows that she exists and Zeus and Mormonism's God don't? Or do they all? Seems to me if you're going to accept one pantheon with this line of thinking you better accept them all. And that'd be rough cause if you're both Catholic and Baptist you can't have sex or drink. ;)

How can a truly stochastic (random) process result in a Deterministic outcome?Before hand it doesn't. After the result is determined it does. Basic probability theory there.

Obviously you have no comprehension of what you are talking about.<chuckle> right. Better mention that to my professors. Those foolish A-Theists passed me! (They must be A-theists, they believe in randomness!) :D
A-Theists, like all pseudo-scientific and mystical cults, are forced to rely on Quantum confusion as the basis of their invisible magic powers. I don't think you need to go as far as the quantum level to demonstrate randomness vs. determinism. Flip a coin. Before it lands you don't know the outcome. Afterwards you do. "If I flip a coin what is the outcome" is stochastic, "I just flipped a coin what was the outcome" is deterministic. I'm unsure of what argument you're trying to make here as this seems painfully simple.

My God exist, because your God (“free willy”) does not exist.A) I though she was a Goddess
B) How did you get here from there?
Even if I grant your premise that the existence of a Creator God is random I don't see how that demonstrates that your God exists.
Even if I grant that Free Will does not exist I don't see how that leads to a Logical Goddess, nor gravitons being consciousness, or matter not being real or any of the other things you've postulated for your God.

It is as simple as that A-Theist. But you aren’t very smart, and you have been brainwashed, so I don’t expect you possess the perception to see it. Remove the plank from your eye, dear Franko.

[Franko]

It is a yes or no question, but a still a relatively meaningless one without more detail.

Considering I hear A-Theists yelling that there is no “God” without defining ‘God” If find your remarks completely hypocritical. How can A-Theists claim non-existence for something which they cannot even define?


What else is your God capable of? Can He interact with humanity? Can He send prophets? Can he appear to people as a burning bush, a swan, a bull, a vision?

The easiest way to imagine the Logical Goddess is to think of the Dungeonmaster in a game of Dungeons & Dragons. Essentially that is how She operates, She’s generating this universe in a very similar fashion, and like the DM She has no need to manifest as a physical entity here. But since She controls almost all of the information you transmit and receive She is utterly and completely controlling You.

Remember, if the answer to your question is yes, it proves none of the above. You are arguing solely that a creator exists, and cannot speculate on the properties of that deity based on this sole question.

God is defined by Her abilities. If you aren’t going to speculate on the properties of a deity then what is the point? By that logic a cricket could be “God”.

Are all you A-Theists retarded?

Really. So why don't you worship Zeus?

If someone wants to worship Zeus, then why should I care? I have no problem with Christians, Hindu’s, or Jews either.

Great. Why don't you worship the Christian God?

In a way I do … well, more accurately the Christians worship my Goddess. They just don’t realize it. But that is True about all religions with a deity.

I suppose you are claiming that if one theory about the Big bang is wrong, that this would mean that ALL theories about the Big Bang were wrong? If not, then why does disproving the existence of Zeus or the Christian God, disprove the existence of ALL possible concepts of “God”?

Now you've postulated both that Heaven exists and that Catholics would find themselves in a Mormon heaven. If we're going to speculate I'd imagine the Catholics who end up in a Mormon Hell would be pretty pissed off about the whole thing.

God rewards people who are programmed to think like She does. Technically She punishes no one, but you A-Theists are in for a gigantic ugly surprise. When God dumps your sorry ass back to the Abyss where She found you, I think you will suddenly realize EXACTLY how important my Goddess has really been to you. Of course by then it will be too late, your Fate will have been sealed.

Oh? And what shows that she exists and Zeus and Mormonism's God don't? Or do they all? Seems to me if you're going to accept one pantheon with this line of thinking you better accept them all. And that'd be rough cause if you're both Catholic and Baptist you can't have sex or drink.

All religions are based on the same principle that Logical Deism is based on – Fatalism.

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU OBEY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

The Laws of Physics (TLOP) controls/makes YOU controls/makes CAR

In the same way that YOU have more “free will” then you CAR, TLOP has more “free will” then you do. To claim otherwise is no different then claiming your CAR has more “free will” then YOU do when you go for a ride in your CAR.

That is why religions have existed since the dawn of Time, and that is why people believe in “God”. If you A-Theists need to invent magical powers to deny the obvious then I don’t see how that makes you “scientific” at all. It seems more like it makes you a bunch of delusional lunatics. Thank the Goddess your whacky cult is limited to only about 3% of the overall population.

Atheism is like having a mental handicap. It is a malfunction in the algorithm of a Graviton.

[Aoidoi]

"Eh, well, boring conversation anyway." Han Solo

Personally if we're going to just make up Gods I'll go with The Force, I prefer my hypothetical mystical rather than nonsensical. (And I'll kill any heathen who mentions midichlorians)

What I got out of your last post is that your Goddess is your Goddess because that's the way you define her. Fine. I define The Force to be having it's way with your Puny Goddess, and The Force is what everybody is really worshipping, not your insignificant Senate- I mean Goddess.

Really, all you have to say is that you're just making it up and most people around here would say that's fine. I mean really, I like D&D as much as the next guy, but I don't expect Lloth to be hanging out for me to worship in real life, nor do I think D&D is a particularly good metaphore as the players know it's just a game just as the DM does. This would seem to me to imply a pantheon rather than a singular Goddess... though at least now I can speculate that you insist on a female because that's what your last DM was. :D

btw, ever tried Baldur's Gate II? I bought it cheap and am trying to decide if it's worth playing through or not.

[Franko]

Personally if we're going to just make up Gods I'll go with The Force, I prefer my hypothetical mystical rather than nonsensical. (And I'll kill any heathen who mentions midichlorians)

Yeah, the “Force” or TLOP is the a-Theists current God. It is exactly like the real god, except it is “Non-conscious”. Unfortunately no A-Theist seems able to explain how one can still be considered conscious while they are under the complete and utter control of a “Non-conscious” force. If something non-conscious is controlling you, then you are also non-conscious. Do you feel non-conscious dipsh*t? … are you sure?

Beyond that you look like a typical brainwashed religious fanatic. You are more concerned with you own religious dogma and appearing to be “smart” then you are actually concerned for the Truth. A very bad Fate ultimately awaits you.

[MRC_Hans]

In the same way that YOU have more “free will” then you CAR, TLOP has more “free will” then you do. To claim otherwise is no different then claiming your CAR has more “free will” then YOU do when you go for a ride in your CAR.
Hey! Just over in the other thread, you claimed I have no free will. How do I drive my car then?

Hans

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Hey! Just over in the other thread, you claimed I have no free will. How do I drive my car then?

Hans Um, badly? I bet you get into lots of accidents. ;) :D

And Franko, really, I worry far more about what I'm going to have for lunch than about whether you think I have a bad Fate. Not to mention that your idea that there is no free will makes that irrelevant as I can't do anything to avoid it.

You complain about Atheists being pessimistic, but what is more pessimistic than arguing that absolutely nothing that you do makes a difference since you're just a puppet with no say in the matter? If you believe in absolute determinism and predestination then my actions can only be blamed on your Goddess. Good thing The Force is ramming her up the butt, otherwise she might be feel bad about the whole thing. :D

[Franko]

MRC:
Hey! Just over in the other thread, you claimed I have no free will. How do I drive my car then?

Why? ... are you claiming that “free will” is required to drive a CAR? What is your reason for believing this? Are you saying that people couldn't drive Cars if Fatalism were True? How do you arrive at that conclusion?

[Franko]

Aoidoi: (Fundamentalist A-Theist Fanatic)
And Franko, really, I worry far more about what I'm going to have for lunch than about whether you think I have a bad Fate. Not to mention that your idea that there is no free will makes that irrelevant as I can't do anything to avoid it.

You “free willy” worshippers have no concept of how reality really functions. Personally I find it amazing that any of you make it too adulthood. You a-Theists are all so gullible and naïve. You are very easy to manipulate, you are very easy to take advantage of.

You complain about Atheists being pessimistic, but what is more pessimistic than arguing that absolutely nothing that you do makes a difference since you're just a puppet with no say in the matter?

Your misunderstanding regarding the basic nature of Fate is simply further evidence of your dire pessimistic nature. It does nothing to change the reality of how Fate actually functions. The fact is you don’t comprehend Fate, because you don’t want God to exist, so you haven’t bothered to examine the concept. I’d say you understand Fate about as well as a person who believes that the Earth is Flat and motionless understands interstellar travel.

If you believe in absolute determinism and predestination then my actions can only be blamed on your Goddess.

Only if She created you little Graviton.

But She didn’t.

Good thing The Force is ramming her up the butt, otherwise she might be feel bad about the whole thing.

Your blasphemy has been noted hellspawn. Perhaps you better guard you butt in the future? (not that it will do any good).

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
"Eh, well, boring conversation anyway." Han Solo

Personally if we're going to just make up Gods I'll go with The Force, I prefer my hypothetical mystical rather than nonsensical. (And I'll kill any heathen who mentions midichlorians)
Hey, now that's something I can get behind. Any religion who has a muppet for a high priest is okay in my book. :D

[Franko]

woo-woo!

Yeah Upchimp, Win was right about you -- nothing but a stupid hypocritical forum TROLL!

run along loser-boy! www.infidels.org

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by Franko
You “free willy” worshippers have no concept of how reality really functions. Personally I find it amazing that any of you make it too adulthood. You a-Theists are all so gullible and naïve. You are very easy to manipulate, you are very easy to take advantage of. LOL, good one.

Ignoring some irrelevant stuff...


Only if She created you little Graviton.

But She didn’t. Well crap, now you're changing your darn theology again! Can't you put together a website or something? Trying to figure out what you believe is like trying to nail jello to the ceiling. If your Oh Most High Powerful Logical Goddess didn't create me, who did? And if somebody else created me (Go The Force!) then isn't it at least as powerful as your LG? Personally I like The Force better, we get lightsabers, not driving priveleges.


Your blasphemy has been noted hellspawn. Perhaps you better guard you butt in the future?Well, I was an offensive lineman in college, so I'm not too worried about my butt. But you sure got a purty mouth... ;) :D
(hmmm... I think I'll wander over to the blasphemy thread, it's more interesting anyway.)
(not that it will do any good). And there's the crux of the problem, dear Franko. According to you everything is predetermined, therefore my actions and belief are irrelevant. You keep calling A-theism pessimistic, but atheists believe that it's up to people to make the world a better place. Tell me, how does a LDist think the world is going to get any better? By threatening non-believers (AKA the entire world but you) with anal rape?

Btw, your logical goddess is also ugly and skanky, I saw her in a three way with Superman and Green Lantern, too. (gee, this pretending imagination = reality bit is kinda fun, now I see why you so enjoy it. Though honestly I think your version is a tad dull. Where are the lizard overlords? :D)

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Franko


By pretending that you have magical "free willy" powers that you simply refuse to explain and then deny as magical. And by claiming that entire universes magically appear out of no where and then denying this is magical as well. If anyone ask -- just give them the usual A-Theist run-around.

Ohh, yes, and pretend that your direly pessimistic little cult is not a cult. Remember, once you sell your Soul to A-Theism, The TRUTH is the enemy. It must be defiled whenever possible, or Un-God gets very angry!

Franko, please stop saying "free willy"! It makes me want to vomit. and you are a fine one to be talking about hubris.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
Trying to figure out what you (Franko) believe is like trying to nail jello to the ceiling.
That is precicely why I have been compiling The List. The Sage of Baltimore says so many things that it is hard to keep them straight. I keep them on a file which I update from time to time on those rare occasions when Franko actually says something new. All of these entries are correct representations of what Franko has said, not straw men.

Please feel free to use them if you wish to discuss certain points with Franko.

Apologies to everyone for posting the same thing yet again.

*****************

NOTE: Many of these “beliefs” were verified by Franko in this post. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=290098&highlight=logical+goddess+omnipotent#post290098)
Origins This universe is part of an omniverse.
The first entity is the Progenitor Solipsist (PS) – our original primordial ancestor – what the Christians call “God the Father/God the Creator”
The Progenitor Solipsist exists in the distant past when there were only two intrinsic parameters - Mass and Velocity (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=306446&highlight=progenitor#post306446)
This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
The Logical Goddess is bound by both fate (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=343044&highlight=goddess+bound+fate#post343044) and logic. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=343062&highlight=bound+logic#post343062)
Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
Consciousness creates matter.
The Big Bang is made up of two parts. The Goddess corresponds to "The Initial State” (the initial “random” configuration of stuff). The other part is The Laws of Physics . (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=306475&highlight=configuration+stuff#post306475)



How Things Work One soul = one graviton.
Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
Spin is quality of Mass, and Charge is quality of Velocity. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=334873&highlight=spin+quality+mass+charge+velocity#post33 4873)
The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
Determinism/Fate/”free will” is the interaction of gravitons of varying strength.
The same logic that leads me to conclude a more evolved being exist leads me to believe that entities’ gender female. (http://66.192.47.137/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=114229&highlight=determinism+interaction+gravitons#post11 4229)
There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatabalist free will. None.
The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
This entire Universe is essentially an illusion. You and I actually exist as particles in the Truer reality of the Omniverse. This universe is a carefully constructed elaboration of the True reality. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=334724&highlight=entire+Universe+is+essentially+an+illusi on#post334724[/url)
TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
True randomness does not exist.
If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.)
Gravity travels faster than the speed of light.
Gravitons are the fundamental force-carrying particles of Gravity and Time.
Gravitons are not real in the sense that you and I are real. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=338621&highlight=matter+real+sense#post338621)
Gravitons obey a higher law that we'd probably call Thermodymics. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=338862&highlight=thermodymics#post338862)
A Graviton is just a special kind of meme, and memes are just distinct packets of information. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=334704&highlight=meme#post334704)
Gravitons are made of time (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=311266&highlight=information+gravitons#post311266)
Objects without gravitons don't really exist in the way that You or I do. They are merely projections. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=334724&highlight=merely+projections#post334724[/url)
Essentially, LD is a Unified Theory of Physics.
The universe can be completely described in terms of binary responses.
If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them both.
Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
At the core of your Soul there is a special type of meme, a special type of algorithm. It possesses this quality you call self-awareness to a far greater degree than other memes. It has this quality because it possesses a meme which gives it Simultaneous Perception. In short it has the ability to perceive two realities (or more) at the same time. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=342244&highlight=Simultaneous+Perception#post342244)
The rules which bind all consciousness are the Laws of Time and Gravity. These are not laws in the same sense as TLOP. They are more like the base programming language that the consciousnesses are written in. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=343594&highlight=conditioning%2Fcontrol#post343594)
Electromagnetism is the memetic projection of the Goddess used as an enhanced means of conveying information. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=343594&highlight=conditioning%2Fcontrol#post343594)



Morality Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
the abyss is a Black hole where the Souls that don’t make it get tossed. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=305988&highlight=progenitor#post305988)
There are consequences for the things you do.
The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
MPB is what is actually evolving. Your algorithm (as well as your database) expands, and evolves over time. It grows. It becomes more complex. You become more self aware. You gain individuality, you gain power. You gain control. You gain freedom. (http://66.192.47.137/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=121324&highlight=database+expands#post121324)
Anyone who commits an immoral act is insane (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=306200&highlight=anyone+commits+immoral+insane#post306200 )
Threat of punishment is the only thing that leads to morality.
A situation is a pattern of events outside the context of time. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=313714&highlight=situation+pattern+events#post313714)


Miscellaneous/The Lexicon Followers of LD are on an Omniworldview line.
Fate = Karma. Karma is – every action has a equal reaction (initially equal, but magnified over Time) (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=303319&highlight=karma#post303319)
No evidence against a thing means evidence for a thing. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=315164&highlight=figment+progenitor#post315164)
choices are preordained outputs (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=323334&highlight=choices+preordained+outputs#post323334)
In LD an Eternity is a very long long period of time, not an “infinite” period of time. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=324718&highlight=eternity+period+time#post324718)
Logic works by having people compare their explanations and seeing which is more logical. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=344372&highlight=Upchurch+explain+something#post344372)


A more detailed explanation of the Logical Deism creation story is given here. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=315470&highlight=remnant+furthermore#post315470)

[CapelDodger]

A-Theism is the religion of Solipsism.

That's why I joined the cult. One so seldom gets to meet other solipsists.

[Franko]

Aoidoi: (panhandles for the Cult of Pessimism @ the airport)
Well crap, now you're changing your darn theology again! Can't you put together a website or something? Trying to figure out what you believe is like trying to nail jello to the ceiling. If your Oh Most High Powerful Logical Goddess didn't create me, who did?

Forget Logical Deism, A-Theist-Boy, let’s just concentrate on You. After all, Solipsism is True, and no one else exist besides YOU. You see you’re a-theism is much simpler this way. Now you don’t have to account for the entire universe magically appearing. Now all you have to account for is YOU magically appearing. Surely that is much, much, much easier to imagine! Because once YOU magically appear, then YOU could just imagine the entire Universe.

And if somebody else created me (Go The Force!) then isn't it at least as powerful as your LG? Personally I like The Force better, we get lightsabers, not driving priveleges.

Yes, but if the force is non-conscious, then how on Earth could you possibly be conscious?

I mean … what you are claiming is that “a magic mystery “robot”” built you, and somehow YOU are more complicated and elaborate that the “magic mystery “robot”” itself!

Does that mean that when you build a CAR, that the CAR is actually more conscious (complicated and elaborate) than YOU?

According to you everything is predetermined, therefore my actions and belief are irrelevant.

Really? How so? Or should I ask, why would Fatalism suddenly and magically make your beliefs and perceptions irrelevant?

You keep calling A-theism pessimistic, but atheists believe that it's up to people to make the world a better place.

How exactly? By telling people their existence is meaningless, there are no ultimate answers, everything fades, and you cease to exist when you die? Based on Nothing but “Wishful Thinking” (i.e. utter, dire Pessimism)??

You need to wake up and smell the coffee coppertop; You are playing Pascal’s wager except you are rooting for the loss! You are nuts my little Graviton – bonkers – insane in the membrane. You are the kind of guy who likes to burn his hand on the hot stove, and you are telling me I am the crazy one for not liking it.

[thaiboxerken]

1) God Exist = True: (HEADS) Theism/Deism
2) God Exist = False (TAILS) A-Theism
3) God Exist = Unknown (NO CALL) Agnosticism

This isn't even close to be a good analogy for learning. Not all knowledge is a flip of a coin. Scientists don't flip a coin to see if gravity will work today or not, there is no evidence that gravity will fail today so we don't even consider it as a viable threat.


You claiming that no evidence for “God” proves that no “God” exist is as absurd as someone claiming that tossed coins always land TAILS up because there is no evidence they ever land HEADS up. If you want to pretend that this isn’t True then you can “starwman” yourself silly for all I care.

If you can name one thing that exists but doesn't have any evidence associated with it, feel free to do it. Until you do, I'll stick with my conclusion that there is no god.



So you don’t believe that a tossed coin will land either HEADS or TAILS now? Like I said, you are retarded.

Knowledge is not gained by a toss of coins.


“free will” and Fate are mutually exclusive binary options. Either one is True, or the other is. If you can’t see it, then you really aren’t very bright at all.

Hardly, there are other options to your false assumption. How about free will for some and fate for others? Wow, I guess your mind isn't creative enough to come up with more than 2 possibilities to this.



Kenny believing in Un-God for no reason is far, far stupidier than believing in “God” for no reason. But don’t let me pee on your pouty little pessimism parade.

Is "stupider" a word? If you're going to comment on a person's intelligence, at least use good grammar. How smart does one need to be to pick up garbage?


Well if you are claiming to understand them so well, perhaps you can explain their positions to me?

They've stated them clearly enough that most people on the forum can understand them. You are part of a minority that cannot, perhaps it's because of your small IQ.

I’d say a religious belief is something you believe based on NO Evidence.

I agree.

So what is your evidence that there is no “God”. I am betting you have NONE, religious fanatic! But feel free to prove me wrong.

The lack of evidence is evidence that there is no god.



I can explain why:

Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of atoms.
YOU OBEY TLOP!

This has been commented on and demonstrated to be false so many times that I'll just say this about it:




What is the YOU making decisions Kenny? There is no YOU, there is only your physical brain made of atoms, and those atoms obey the same laws of chemistry that any other chemicals obey. You aren’t making any decisions my boy, chemistry is making all of your decisions for You!

I agree.



Yeah, and you call yourself “scientific”??? Jump off the roof of a tall building and try telling yourself that the laws of Physics don’t control anything you stupid A-Theist moron!

Jump off the roof and convince "TLOP" to make an exception to gravity for you and I'll concede to your conclusion.



Yeah, but it is definitely a mechanism that tells Atoms (chemicals0 what to do, and since you are NOTHING but atoms (chemicals) then I would say TLOP is DEFINITELY telling you what to do. If not TLOP then where is the YOU? Are you claiming to have a “Soul” Kenny? Because that is what it sounds like you are claiming.

No such thing as a soul. TLOP are not any more conscious than a prison cell is conscious. They only constrain us, not control us.

[thaiboxerken]

Forget Logical Deism, A-Theist-Boy, let’s just concentrate on You.

Why? Because there is no truth in LD.

After all, Solipsism is True, and no one else exist besides YOU.

So you freely admit that Logical Deism is false and that we should all adhere to Solipsism?


You see you’re a-theism is much simpler this way. Now you don’t have to account for the entire universe magically appearing.

Yea, instead of magic, we could always say "god did it". Hate to burst your bubble, but "god" is just another magical explanation.

I don't know how the universe originated, or if it ever was in a state of non-existence. There you go, I'm saying I don't know. Can you admit that you don't know either?

Now all you have to account for is YOU magically appearing.

I think most people in this forum have a basic understanding of human reproduction, but if you want to call sex "magic", then go ahead. Maybe your parents never gave you that talk. Maybe you are content with thinking that masturbation is all that your penis is good for.

Yes, but if the force is non-conscious, then how on Earth could you possibly be conscious?

Midichlorians are conscious, all individuals but connected and when they all act together, they are typically called "the force".


I mean … what you are claiming is that “a magic mystery “robot”” built you, and somehow YOU are more complicated and elaborate that the “magic mystery “robot”” itself!

No, that would be the creationist arguement. That some "god" built us for the soul purpose of worshipping it.


Really? How so? Or should I ask, why would Fatalism suddenly and magically make your beliefs and perceptions irrelevant?

Because, if your fate claim is true, it's not really our fault for being atheist. You should be bitching at fate and not us.

How exactly? By telling people their existence is meaningless, there are no ultimate answers, everything fades, and you cease to exist when you die? Based on Nothing but “Wishful Thinking” (i.e. utter, dire Pessimism)??

That's, yet again, is another straw-man. I'm atheist and I'm telling people to make their lives meaningful, go out and get financially successful and help to preserve our world. I'm telling people that we only have one chance, one life, to do as much as we can. God-believers, typically, telll people to stand-by and pray and let god do the work.... and that they have all of eternity to procrastinate.

You need to wake up and smell the coffee coppertop; You are playing Pascal’s wager except you are rooting for the loss!

No, most people here understand that Pascals' Wager is a fallacy. It's a false Dichotomy.

You are nuts my little Graviton – bonkers – insane in the membrane. You are the kind of guy who likes to burn his hand on the hot stove, and you are telling me I am the crazy one for not liking it.

Maybe you should go see your local psychiatrist and explain to him why the rest of us are insane. I ask you to do this for us to show us compassion, go and find help for us. Go to your local shrink and explain the situation, refer him to this forum as evidence and let him know that you are the "Franko" that is the only sane voice in the thread.

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I very much doubt that JREF is a cult, as cults do not allow interaction with those that disagree with the cult. For example, go to a scientology board and tell them that it's crap and you'll be banned.

This forum, which is moderated by many atheists, has not and does not censor and ban people for believing in a god or even insults against atheists. An atheist cult would have gotten rid of these whacky theists long ago.

Charlatan:
Who told you that the entire JREF forum is a cult?
Who wrote that? Did I , as you wrote? Where is your evidence?

You are just a member of the charlatan's cult.
Or put the evidence that I wrote that the entire JREF forum is a cult. Just do it, charlatan.

Thanks,
S&S

[Tricky]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
That's why I joined the cult. One so seldom gets to meet other solipsists.
LOL. Good point. And when they meet, the conversation goes a lot like this.

Solipsist 1 - I don't know why were bothering to meet. You're just a figment of my imagination.

Solipsist 2 - NO! You're a figment of my imagination!

Solipsist 1 - You are!

Solipsist 2 - You are!

Solipsist 1 - Neener neener!

Charlatan thai:

Meet some friends and some quotes of your cult:

LUKE T wrote:
Hal, You Could Have Saved Time....
...by just changing the name of the Religion and Philosophy section to the Bogus or Brilliant section.

It's been pretty bogus for months now....



Wyrd wrote:
We are happy with our cult. Imagine how much happier we would be with it if you and Latinijral took Donkey Show elsewhere.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=348004#post348004

Just examples of your charlatan's cult.

Thanks,
S&S

[thaiboxerken]

You are just a member of the charlatan's cult.
Or put the evidence that I wrote that the entire JREF forum is a cult. Just do it, charlatan.

Thanks,
S&S [/QUOTE]

You are placing everying in the forum that disagrees with your viewpoint in this imaginary cult. This cult doesn't exist, it is merely somethign you built so you can insult people.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by S&amp;S
Charlatan thai:

Meet some friends and some quotes of your cult:


http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=348004#post348004

Just examples of your charlatan's cult.

Thanks,
S&S

LOL.. So a person using sarcasm is evidence of this cult? Yes, we are all a big cult and we're out there all around you, waiting to take your children and use them as parts for an organic spaceship. Mwahahhahaha.


You are a dumbass.

[muscleman]

U guys dislike Franko, LOL...I know why, because he is telling the truth..If theres something atheism is good at, then that is to show the power of denial....LOL, seriously, and I mean seriously, atheism is pure comdey...Ohhh it tickles me when atheists laugh at some christians, it just show how ridiculous theyre understanding are.. Its like making serious comments, but because they didnt get it (too dumb) then they laugh thinking its comedy, and their laughter makes me laugh too....

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


You are just a member of the charlatan's cult.
Or put the evidence that I wrote that the entire JREF forum is a cult. Just do it, charlatan.

Thanks,
S&S

You are placing everying in the forum that disagrees with your viewpoint in this imaginary cult. This cult doesn't exist, it is merely somethign you built so you can insult people. [/QUOTE]

Charlatan thai:

Just post the evidence that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult .

Just do it, charlatan. Your bla bla bla, posts and acussations without evidences , are proofs that you are a charlatan , a member of the charlatan's cult. Until you don't post the evidence , you are just a charlatan. Like the others.

Thanks,
S&S

[Franko]

thaifoodkenny: (moron)

If you can name one thing that exists but doesn't have any evidence associated with it, feel free to do it. Until you do, I'll stick with my conclusion that there is no god.

There is no evidence for "free will", and unless "free will" exist, then there is DEFINITELY a "God". You can contradict yourself until you are blue in the face for all I care religious fanatic.

[Franko]

muscleman:
U guys dislike Franko, LOL...I know why, because he is telling the truth..If theres something atheism is good at, then that is to show the power of denial....LOL, seriously, and I mean seriously, atheism is pure comdey...Ohhh it tickles me when atheists laugh at some christians, it just show how ridiculous theyre understanding are.. Its like making serious comments, but because they didnt get it (too dumb) then they laugh thinking its comedy, and their laughter makes me laugh too....

The most hysterical thing about the A-Theists is that they all think they are the cat's meow. It just cracks me up how blind to reality they really are. A-Theists actually believe that they are more intelligent than the average person (Theist). They're nothing but a bunch of stupid ignorant hypocrites. Personally when someone tells me they are an A-Theist I have the almost the same reaction as when someone tells me they are a Neo-nazi.

Yeah ... a real bunch of geniuses.

Just take a look at that idiot thaifoodkenny if you want an example of the “mighty A-Theist intellect” :rolleyes:

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Franko


There is no evidence for "free will", and unless "free will" exist, then there is DEFINITELY a "God". You can contradict yourself until you are blue in the face for all I care religious fanatic.

So, if one believes in a god, they cannot believe in free will? Or if one doesn't believe in a god, they must believe in free will?

You are making assumptions based on no knowledge or evidence here.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Franko

A-Theists actually believe that they are more intelligent than the average person (Theist).

It just happens to be that most scientists in the USA are atheist/agnostic. This doesn't mean that atheists are smarter, but it does show that your assumption that atheists are ignorant and stupid to be false. I don't think that theists are unintelligent or ignorant, it's just that intelligence is void when it comes to their god beliefs.


They're nothing but a bunch of stupid ignorant hypocrites. Personally when someone tells me they are an A-Theist I have the almost the same reaction as when someone tells me they are a Neo-nazi.

That's because you are a bigot.


Yeah ... a real bunch of geniuses.

How much intelligence does it take to be a garbage man?


Just take a look at that idiot thaifoodkenny if you want an example of the “mighty A-Theist intellect” :rolleyes:

Hey, if my company wants to pay me the big bucks for being highly intelligent, then I'll keep letting them think that I'm intelligent. I don't know if I would qualify for the high-tech training it takes to pick up garbage. :rolleyes:

[Blue Monk]

Does it take an atheistic cult to determine that there is no large dark object passing through or even near either tower from videos like this….

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You really can't get a better view of the area in question than this.



In collecting these videos I have come across many duplications but I can assure you this is a rare shot.



If one could travel back in time for the express purpose of determining if any foreign object was passing through this tower you could not have set up a better viewing angle than this. The video is sharp and clear and it is still only a small part of the mountain of evidence that proves beyond all doubt that there is no large dark object passing through or even near either tower.

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I'll be posting new videos daily.

We could all be members of a Cult and wear funny robes and perform all sort of bizarre rituals but that does not change the fact that Carlo's claim is BS, there is no large dark object passing through or even near either tower and he is just a callous self-serving, self-centered con-man that will do anything to get his name in print.

When you 'holier-than-thou' non-atheists view these videos remember not to focus on the pain and misery represented here, the loss of innocent lives, the countless families affected, the many war dead both recent and soon to come.

No, let's all stay focused on what is really important.

Your pious attempts to put all atheists in their place and Carlo's petty desire to be in print.

Who cares if you have to crawl into bed with a creep like Carlos. You are the righteous ones after all.

[thaiboxerken]

Charlatan thai:

Just post the evidence that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult.

You didn't, you are selective in who you will place in your imaginary cult. You pick out those from the forum that disagree with your narrow viewpoints and call them cultists. It's merely an insult tactic, I understand that you really don't think we are in a cult. You only want to ruffle our feathers, I admit that you did, but I'm above that now. Insult all you like, it still doesn't provide anyone evidence of your god.

[J3K]

thaiboxerken
I gots a question. It's about the fate or free will thing. I am just curious how you think a little bit of both exists?? That is what I am assuming you believe from what you posted earlier in this thread. I agree with everything else I have read you say, but this one strikes me and I don't understand it. So I am just curious what reasoning you have for believing this. If you don't however, please correct me with what you do believe.

[thaiboxerken]

thaiboxerken
I gots a question. It's about the fate or free will thing. I am just curious how you think a little bit of both exists??

It's simple, I neither believe in fate or free will.

When you drop an object, it falls down, that's not fate, that is just gravity.. cause and effect. I believe that this cause and effect also is how our "will" operates, I also believe that there are so many factors that we may as well use a free-will model.

[Franko]

thaifoolkenny (ummm, ummm good)
So, if one believes in a god, they cannot believe in free will?

Not if they are interested in being Logically consistent.

Or if one doesn't believe in a god, they must believe in free will?

This is just dawning on you A-Theist? You really are a brainwashed moron.

You are making assumptions based on no knowledge or evidence here.

I love it when idiot A-Theists think before they speak. Reminds me of how wonderful it is that the game has been rigged.

[Franko]

thaifoodkenny:

It's simple, I neither believe in fate or free will.

When you drop an object, it falls down, that's not fate, that is just gravity.. cause and effect. I believe that this cause and effect also is how our "will" operates, I also believe that there are so many factors that we may as well use a free-will model.

Translation: thaifoodkenny is an imbecile. And what makes it even funnier is he thinks he is "smart".

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


Charlatan thai:

Just post the evidence that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult.

You didn't, you are selective in who you will place in your imaginary cult.


So , you are a charlatan and a liar. You accused me that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult.

Enjoy your charlatan's cult of pseudo skeptics and true beleivers.

Thanks,
S&S

[thaiboxerken]

So , you are a charlatan and a liar. You accused me that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult.


Really? I said you called the forum a cult, meaning anyone that actually admire's Randi's work. There is no cult here, you can't even show evidence of a leader. You can try this red-herring tactic all you want, but you still have no evidence that I'm in a cult.


Enjoy your charlatan's cult of pseudo skeptics and true beleivers.

Thanks,
S&S

Not a pseudo-skeptic, I'm a skeptic and non-believer. I believe in no gods, no fantasy, no mythology or the existence of supernatural and paranormal things. Your insult tactics are a vain attempt to try and shift the skepticism towards the skeptics because you have NO EVIDENCE of your gods or paranormal events.

[Franko]

thaifoodkenny: (lying A-Theist)
Not a pseudo-skeptic, I'm a skeptic and non-believer. I believe in no gods, no fantasy, no mythology or the existence of supernatural and paranormal things. Your insult tactics are a vain attempt to try and shift the skepticism towards the skeptics because you have NO EVIDENCE of your gods or paranormal events.

A bold faced Lie!

Either you believe in a conscious god (like a Theist/Deist), or you believe that you have magic “free willy” powers and you are God (A-Theism).

“free willy” is your “god” A-Theist.

Of course since I know that you happen to be an especially dishonest and dogmatic little moron I am betting you are going to try and pretend that you don’t even believe in your own religion. I bet you will deny that you believe in your magic “free willy” powers.

But without your precious “free willy” then you are being controlled by The Laws of Physics utterly and the Laws of Physics are simply the Hand of God.

Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU OBEY TLOP!

TLOP (God) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR

In the same way that YOU are more conscious than your CAR, TLOP (God) is more conscious than YOU. To claim otherwise is as insane as claiming that when you go for a ride in your CAR, that CAR is more in control then YOU are.

What is making the decision according to You anyway religious fanatic? There is no YOU according to A-Theism, YOU are just your physical brain, and your brain is simply atoms obeying the same rules that all chemicals obey.

How are YOU making decisions any more than a rock does? Are you claiming that the atoms in your mind are taking a vote or something? Did they elect a little “president atom” or something like that? Do the little atoms have armies and opposing philosophies? Do they ever disagree and have to duke it out inside your mind?

[alfaniner]

Evidently S&S learned a new word today ("charlatan"). Wasn't he the guy in The Ten Commandments?

Blue Monk -- I would expect it of the twits S&S and latinjral, but please don't post any more pictures of that incident (links would be OK). It is still very distressing to me.

[thaiboxerken]

"Either you believe in a conscious god (like a Theist/Deist), or you believe that you have magic “free willy” powers and you are God (A-Theism). "

I believe in neither. You are creating a false dichotomy and trying to make everyone succumb to it. There are more possibilities than your choices. How is it that christians believe in a god AND free-will?

"“free willy” is your “god” A-Theist."

Once you have power-of-attorney over my beliefs, I'll let you assign them for me. For now, it is a fact that I believe in neither free-will or a god.

"I bet you will deny that you believe in your magic “free willy” powers."

It's not denial, it is a fact that I don't believe in free-will or gods. Just because it's beyond your tiny little mind to understand more than 2 possibilities doesn't mean that I have to succumb to your dichotomy.

"But without your precious “free willy” then you are being controlled by The Laws of Physics utterly and the Laws of Physics are simply the Hand of God. "

This arguement has been shown to be false so many times that I don't understand why you haven't figured out that it is false yet. Oh, I know why, because you are a fundamentalist, insane, commie-troll!

"What is making the decision according to You anyway religious fanatic?"

A combination of many physical factors. So many physical factors that I may as well use a free-will model.

" There is no YOU according to A-Theism, YOU are just your physical brain, and your brain is simply atoms obeying the same rules that all chemicals obey. "

Not just the brain, but the sum and perception of all my experiences as well.

[Franko]

Franko:
Of course since I know that you happen to be an especially dishonest and dogmatic little moron I am betting you are going to try and pretend that you don’t even believe in your own religion. I bet you will deny that you believe in your magic “free willy” powers.

thaifoodkenny:
I believe in neither. You are creating a false dichotomy and trying to make everyone succumb to it. There are more possibilities than your choices.

No there aren’t. If there were other “choices” you would have listed them.

How is it that christians believe in a god AND free-will?

Some Christians, but apparently not all. For example, aside from myself (and I am not a Christian anyway) you have muscleman, annadee, jedi, and gentlehorse, all acknowledged theists, and all acknowledged disbelievers in your “free willy” god.

Besides since when is Christian belief empirical evidence about the nature of reality?

I believe in neither free-will or a god.

Like I said you are a self-contradicting idiot. I amazed you can even write you religious moron!

For you to make this claim is analogous to claiming that you don’t believe a flipped coin will land HEADS or TAILS (Kenny might call the toss – BLUE!). You are insane, what else can I tell you?

thaifoodkenny:
It's not denial, it is a fact that I don't believe in free-will or gods. Just because it's beyond your tiny little mind to understand more than 2 possibilities doesn't mean that I have to succumb to your dichotomy.

When I force you to pretend that you don’t believe in anything then you have succumbed. Either you can explain what you believe or you cannot. The fact that you won’t even try tells me that you are scared and embarrassed about your beliefs. You should be.

This arguement has been shown to be false so many times that I don't understand why you haven't figured out that it is false yet. Oh, I know why, because you are a fundamentalist, insane, commie-troll!

Really? You mean that someone actually PROVED that you DO NOT OBEY The Laws of Physics??? WOW A-Theist, I wonder why you didn’t repost this amazing proof? Have you applied to win the Randi prize yet you stupid buffoon? Why not? Being able to disobey TLOP would definitely qualify for the prize!!

Thaifood, you are one of the stupidest A-theist on this forum. You are seriously delusional. You should get yourself some professional help. Please don’t jump off the roof of any tall building because you have convinced yourself that you don’t obey the laws of physics and can therefore fly.

Franko: (Logical Deist)
What is making the decision according to You anyway religious fanatic?"
" There is no YOU according to A-Theism, YOU are just your physical brain, and your brain is simply atoms obeying the same rules that all chemicals obey. "

Thaifoodkenny: (A-Theist Imbecile)
A combination of many physical factors. So many physical factors that I may as well use a free-will model.

Not just the brain, but the sum and perception of all my experiences as well.

So you are claiming that you have a “Soul”? I thought that your brain, your perceptions, and your “experiences” are all just the result of the atoms in your brain and simple chemistry? What is the mechanism of “free will”? What or Where is the YOU? How does the YOU get control over The Laws of Physics and magically alter the natural processes of chemistry?

If the atoms in your brain are magically acting beyond the scope of The Laws of Physics, then why hasn’t anyone discovered or proven this yet? Where is the evidence that the Atoms in your brain are not obeying the same ordinary laws of physics that ALL other atoms obey?

What is your reason for believing this contradictory pessimistic nonsense A-Theist? The only "benefit" I can see is that you could claim there would be no consequences for your actions. But really that is only a "benefit" if you happen to be a dishonest self-serving liar who likes to burn his hand on the hot stove for fun.

Originally posted by alfaniner
Evidently S&S learned a new word today ("charlatan"). Wasn't he the guy in The Ten Commandments?




Distress you a little charlatan. And learn a little more . Charlatan is the same word in spanish, also means a person like you: just bla , bla, bla.

Thanks,
S&S

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


So , you are a charlatan and a liar. You accused me that I wrote that the entire forum is a cult.


Really? I said you called the forum a cult, meaning anyone that actually admire's Randi's work. There is no cult here, you can't even show evidence of a leader. You can try this red-herring tactic all you want, but you still have no evidence that I'm in a cult.


Enjoy your charlatan's cult of pseudo skeptics and true beleivers.

Thanks,
S&S

Not a pseudo-skeptic, I'm a skeptic and non-believer. I believe in no gods, no fantasy, no mythology or the existence of supernatural and paranormal things. Your insult tactics are a vain attempt to try and shift the skepticism towards the skeptics because you have NO EVIDENCE of your gods or paranormal events.

You quoted that I called the entire forum a cult.You are a liar.

You are a charlatan. You are not able to put the evidence.

You are part of the charlatan's cult. Just bla bla bla and no evidences. Is your style, and you have to live with that: charlatan.

Thanks,
S&S

[Blue Monk]

Originally posted by S&amp;S


Distress you a little charlatan. And learn a little more . Charlatan is the same word in spanish, also means a person like you: just bla , bla, bla.

Thanks,
S&S

That's very interesting.

Tell me Carlos, what do you call a creep that will try to exploit a tragedy? We call them creeps.

I'm curious, after you were on TV did you discover that a little publicity is good for an artist?

<font size="+1">Video Clip of the Day</font>



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Here we have an angle provided by CNN.



This shot is interesting for two reasons. First, it is from an angle very similar to the shot in question. Second, it captures a number of birds in flight. It is interesting to note how similar they look to the image in question and it is also interesting to note the altitude they are flying at.



Most importantly, of course, it is quite clear that there is no large dark object passing through or even near either tower.

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I'll be posting new videos daily.



Be sure to check out my new web-site Creeps who exploit tragedies. (http://home.austin.rr.com/bluemonk/nonsense/)

[thaiboxerken]

No there aren’t. If there were other “choices” you would have listed them.


I did. Here are a few of them... belief in a god AND free-will, no beliefs in god OR free-will, belief in a god and limited-free-will, no belief in a god and limited-free will.


Some Christians, but apparently not all. For example, aside from myself (and I am not a Christian anyway) you have muscleman, annadee, jedi, and gentlehorse, all acknowledged theists, and all acknowledged disbelievers in your “free willy” god.

Yes, but this shows that your dichotomy is false.

Besides since when is Christian belief empirical evidence about the nature of reality?

It's not, but we're talking about beliefs in general, not empirically-based conclusions.


Like I said you are a self-contradicting idiot. I amazed you can even write you religious moron!

I can write well enough to know that you missed a comma in your sentence.

For you to make this claim is analogous to claiming that you don’t believe a flipped coin will land HEADS or TAILS (Kenny might call the toss – BLUE!). You are insane, what else can I tell you?

Not even close to being a fair and accurate analogy, please try again.

When I force you to pretend that you don’t believe in anything then you have succumbed. Either you can explain what you believe or you cannot. The fact that you won’t even try tells me that you are scared and embarrassed about your beliefs. You should be.

I don't believe in a god and I don't believe in free-will.


Really? You mean that someone actually PROVED that you DO NOT OBEY The Laws of Physics??? WOW A-Theist, I wonder why you didn’t repost this amazing proof? Have you applied to win the Randi prize yet you stupid buffoon? Why not? Being able to disobey TLOP would definitely qualify for the prize!!

First demonstrate that "TLOP" have commanded me to do anything. When you have a recorded message from "TLOP" giving orders, then we can talk about a million-dollar prize.

Thaifood, you are one of the stupidest A-theist on this forum. You are seriously delusional. You should get yourself some professional help. Please don’t jump off the roof of any tall building because you have convinced yourself that you don’t obey the laws of physics and can therefore fly.

When you can convince TLOP to act as a conscious being, then we can talk about obeying TLOP in the context that you are placing it.

So you are claiming that you have a “Soul”? I thought that your brain, your perceptions, and your “experiences” are all just the result of the atoms in your brain and simple chemistry?

Yes, all my experiences and memories are turned into simple chemistry but these experiences come from outside the body. Because of these many factors, we may as well use the free-will model.

What is the mechanism of “free will”?

There is no free-will, in my opinion.

What or Where is the YOU? How does the YOU get control over The Laws of Physics and magically alter the natural processes of chemistry?

I never made this claim.

If the atoms in your brain are magically acting beyond the scope of The Laws of Physics, then why hasn’t anyone discovered or proven this yet?

They atoms in the brain are not beyond the scope of physics, they are simply beyond the scope of our knowledge though. Someday we might figure out all of the factors that make our decisions, but until then a free-will model works fine.


Where is the evidence that the Atoms in your brain are not obeying the same ordinary laws of physics that ALL other atoms obey?

I never made this claim either.

[Franko]

thaifoodkenny:

They atoms in the brain are not beyond the scope of physics, they are simply beyond the scope of our knowledge though. Someday we might figure out all of the factors that make our decisions, but until then a free-will model works fine.

The atoms in your brain are no different then any other atoms. They obey the same rules that other atoms obey. The fact that you don't know all of the rules that atoms obey doesn't mean your atoms don't obey them.

You are confusing Omniscience with Determinism, but considering it's amazing you can log onto the internet without Mommy's help, I'm not too surprised.

Essentially you are claiming that before Galileo the Earth really was Flat and Motionless, and it only became a Sphere and started orbiting the Sun after Galileo proved it.

[thaiboxerken]

The atoms in your brain are no different then any other atoms. They obey the same rules that other atoms obey. The fact that you don't know all of the rules that atoms obey doesn't mean your atoms don't obey them.

I agree except for the context in which you use the word "obey". If you can demonstrate that the laws of physics are conscious and give out orders, then maybe I'll agree with your absurd arguement.


You are confusing Omniscience with Determinism, but considering it's amazing you can log onto the internet without Mommy's help, I'm not too surprised.

Don't you have some garbage to pick up somewhere, oscar?


Essentially you are claiming that before Galileo the Earth really was Flat and Motionless, and it only became a Sphere and started orbiting the Sun after Galileo proved it.

There is no way any reasonable person can construe anything I said as meaning that the earth was ever flat or motionless.

I know what I'll do, since I'm very bored with you. I'll place you on ignore.

[thaiboxerken]

Franko
02-24-2003 05:34 PM This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Franko
02-24-2003 05:34 PM This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

The "ignore" style. Another cult's style.
Fanatic, loser, charlatan and true beleiver.

Thanks,
S&S

[Franko]

Yeah, if you can't stand the heat ...

... you're going to be in big big trouble when you get to Hell A-Theist ...
Franko:
The atoms in your brain are no different then any other atoms. They obey the same rules that other atoms obey. The fact that you don't know all of the rules that atoms obey doesn't mean your atoms don't obey them.


thaifoodkenny:
I agree except for the context in which you use the word "obey".




Ahhh, so according to your definition of the term "Obey" the atoms in your brain Do Not OBEY the laws of physics?

Like I said religious fanatic, when your cult requires you to utterly reject reality, then it is time for you to find a new cult.