Close-run thing

[nick]

I was ranting at the TV last night (some woo-woo topic) and my rant touched homeopathy; my son (normally a woo-woo free zone) said "Yeah, but homeopathy works".

Of course, I gave him the 4 megaton stare; he said, "there's this kid in our class with acne, and his mom, who is a doctor, gave him this homeopathic stuff, and the acne cleared up".

Leaving aside that "acne" in this case was probable just "a few zits", I set about explaining about double-blind tests, etc. My wife didn't help much by saying "yes, but if you think it works and it then works anyway [by placebo effect], then as far as you're concerned, it works, where's the harm". So I sort of told her (in a loving relationship kind of way) to STFU :)

I think #1 son is back on track now. But clearly the fact that "his mom's a doctor" had a big influence. I said that maybe his mom is smart, and prescribes homeopathic stuff for people who have nothing wrong with them (prevents overdoses, right ?).

Anyway, if he persists, I will try the neat trick which I saw somewhere, of swallowing a whole bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills and see what happens :)

[geni]

Originally posted by nick
Anyway, if he persists, I will try the neat trick which I saw somewhere, of swallowing a whole bottle of homeopathic sleeping pills and see what happens :)

At the prices they tend to charge that could be expensive.

I foyu want him to see the problems with homeopathy try a get him to read some of their discussion boards to see how wierd some of their stuff is.

[Suezoled]

If you do that Homeopathic anti-overdose trick (tm), be sure to record time and dosage, and keep records.

[nick]

Originally posted by Suezoled
If you do that Homeopathic anti-overdose trick (tm), be sure to record time and dosage, and keep records.

Damn ! I knew I shouldn't have done it at half past midnight after half a bottle of wine and vigorous sexual intercourse !

[SquishyDave]

Originally posted by nick
Damn ! I knew I shouldn't have done it at half past midnight after half a bottle of wine and vigorous sexual intercourse ! Quit lording your satisfying sex life over the rest of us, very poor form. ;) I took a whole bottle of homeopathic stuff in front of my Mum, it may have worked, but it sounds like that will work on your kid coz he is still young, and you can ground him if he persists :)

[deBergerac]

What do people generally believe would happen if you took an overdose (whole bottle) of homeopathic medicine? I mean since it gains potency when you dilute it a whole bottle would not really have any effect at all.
Avoiding taking the medicine there is the real test. This must be done carefully since it might be dangerous to reduce it to zero intake of active substance.
(Ohhh! They already do that!? Then it is ok I suppose.) :)

Unfortunately people still think of doctors as authorities in almost any field. And authorities are a good thing to some extent; you cannot know everything your self so you need someone to ask. Finding the right authority is the problem and a doctor might not be the best for the scientific method.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by deBergerac
Finding the right authority is the problem and a doctor might not be the best for the scientific method.
Doctors in the main think scientifically. But since the mammalian body isn't an entirely known entity, they'll go for pragmatism too.

The snag is that a small minority of doctors are convinced woo-woos in homoeopathy, and they are given diplomatic immunity from malpractice accusations by the rest of the profession for historical reasons. It's an interesting psychological point. I think they tend to be emotional thinkers who will "try anything", in particular are inclined to try woo-woo if they perceive that scientific medicine cannot help all patients (as indeed it cannot).

Then, and this is just my theory, I think the homoeopathic teaching is esentially cult brainwashing, which removes their training in scientific thinking and substitutes a solid grounding in deluding both themselves and their patients that (a) every spontaneous recovery was caused by the homoeopathy, and (b) even when the patient isn't better, they really are better (see this one all the time in veterinary medicine - the animal is just the same, but the homoeopath is insisting ot the owner that it's so much better, sometimes the owner falls for it, sometimes not).

Since they then truly believe that they are really helping even the chronic heart-sink cases, which is why they investigated the method in the first place, nothing will persuade them that they are delusional.

This argument completely falls down, however, when you point out to them that they could have the JREF million bucks for the taking. No matter how hard you plead with them to apply, they duck like a quack. Some little part of them knows full well what would happen if they did.

Rolfe.