Batman goes Postal on Film Set

[dudalb]

Christian Bale blows up with the Director of Photograph steps into his line of vision on the set of "Terminator:Salvation".

Warning: The language is definently R rated.

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/020209_christianbale.mp3

Wow. It has been a long time since we had a celeb meltdown as good as this.
Between this, the incident with his mother in London just before "The Dark Knight" premiere, and other incidents, I would say that Bale has Anger issues.
Yeah, the DP should not have gotten into his line of vision, but still...
And this just adds to my dislike of McG, the director of this film. The guy on the tape comes off like milkwater. He cannot control his own set, something any director has to do.
One of the entertaining celeb incidents lately.

[dudalb]

And it did not take long for someone to have some photoshop fun with this...http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_188404988a7335e3be.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=15157)

[HarryKeogh]

If I made millions of dollars acting, was great-looking and Batman I'd be too busy skipping and smiling to ever stop to yell at someone.

[Redtail]

Granted, I would have been pissed too, but nothing like that.

[alfaniner]

Probably the 'roid rage kicking in.

I'm curious to know how the next take went.

[calebprime]

To me, it didn't seem that over the top, but I don't know all the circumstances and I couldn't hear the other side of the exchange well enough.

[dudalb]

To me, it didn't seem that over the top, but I don't know all the circumstances and I couldn't hear the other side of the exchange well enough.

I would love to know what is your idea of going over the top. Try that in your workplace and see what happens.

[EventHorizon]

He should have asked the guy if he likes Huey Lewis and the News.

[Ian Osborne]

I wonder how rich and famous you need to be before you can act like a complete tit like that and get away with it.

[Lonewulf]

To me, it didn't seem that over the top, but I don't know all the circumstances and I couldn't hear the other side of the exchange well enough.

Uh, it's pretty over the top, to me... it's bullying, yelling, and very insulting. Not to mention the language used.

And he certainly goes at length at it.

Also, "I'm going to go kick your ass!" and "I'm going to go trash your lights!" That's... uh... not over the top?

To be fair, I can understand the stress he's going through, but almost everyone goes through stress during their job.

[dudalb]

If it would have been a brief ourburst of a few sentences, no big deal. But go to into a five minute rant..that indicates some problems with anger.
But I guess he thinks he can do what he wants because he is the Goddamn Batman...

[Biscuit]

he should have asked the guy if he likes huey lewis and the news.

rotflmao!!!

[dudalb]

If James Cameron was directing this film with Christian Bale, only one would be alive by now,since Cameron has the reputation of having a temper on set like The Incredible Hulk....

[dudalb]

He should have asked the guy if he likes Huey Lewis and the News.


Actually, I am reminded of Casey Casem's infamous " F---- Dead Dog" meltdown.

[KingMerv00]

He should have asked the guy if he likes Huey Lewis and the News.

"Is that a raincoat batsuit?"

[Aerik]

Melissa McEwan has a colorful interpretation of bale's rant here: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/02/bale-remix.html

[hgc]

Question: Does the point where Bale says to him "you're a nice guy" make it even more personally humiliating for the target of his tamtrum?

This was a serious overraction, no matter what happened. There is no denying that someone in that exchange is a major league prick. Good actor, though.

[hgc]

Actually, I am reminded of Casey Casem's infamous " F---- Dead Dog" meltdown.


That's the best. Let's listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDYK2H0ldbo

And while we're at it, how about the famous Orson Welles frozen peas meltdown. You really get what a twisted genius he was. "You don't know what I'm up against. It's full of .. of .. of things that are only correct because they're grammatical. But it's tough on the ear ... unpleasant to read; unrewarding"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V14PfDDwxlE

[Corsair 115]

Christian Bale blows up with the Director of Photograph steps into his line of vision on the set of "Terminator:Salvation".


Uh, it's not a smart move to tick off the camera department. They can make the actor's day a rough one. Say the actor gives a great take... the camera guys go, "Ooops, sorry, hair in the gate. We need another take." So the actor pours out another great take... the camera guys go, "Ooops, sorry, that one was soft. We need to go again." Repeat as needed. And then there's the fact that they can make any actor look terrible on film by lighting them the wrong way.

Don't tick off the camera department, folks.


If James Cameron was directing this film with Christian Bale, only one would be alive by now,since Cameron has the reputation of having a temper on set like The Incredible Hulk....


The stories about Cameron on set are legendary, no doubt. Though in a recent interview here on the CBC show The Hour, Cameron more or less admits to being something of an s.o.b. on set, but says he has a better attitude now and saw the errors in his old ways.

[hgc]

Uh, it's not a smart move to tick off the camera department. They can make the actor's day a rough one. Say the actor gives a great take... the camera guys go, "Ooops, sorry, hair in the gate. We need another take." So the actor pours out another great take... the camera guys go, "Ooops, sorry, that one was soft. We need to go again." Repeat as needed. And then there's the fact that they can make any actor look terrible on film by lighting them the wrong way.

Don't tick off the camera department, folks.


Sounds like subtle sabotage. I don't think any camera department will be trying that with Christian Bale. Apparently, he fights back. And in the famous words of the Glenn Ford character in The Violent Men, "Don't force me to fight, because you won't like my way of fightin'"

[plumjam]

I remember reading a magazine interview with Bale in which IIRC he more or less said he really disliked acting and only did it to make the very good living that it gives him.
It was surprising, and kind of refreshing, because nearly all of them twonk on about it being an art they're so devoted to, and endeavour to present it as something profound blah blah..etc.
Hope that's accurate. Wouldn't want to create a Bale Straw Man

[Corsair 115]

Sounds like subtle sabotage. I don't think any camera department will be trying that with Christian Bale.


Don't treat the camera department like dirt, because if you do, you're liable to find shooting will start going more slowly and there'll be all kinds of technical issues. A good camera operator and a good D.O.P. can save hours of production time on a film set—this is especially true when the director is inexperienced or otherwise subpar. Treat the camera guys badly, and they're not going to have much reason to offer those time- and money-saving ideas and techniques.

[shecky]

I like Buddy Rich's rants better.

[gumboot]

It's worth hearing the whole story on these sorts of things. One of the Assistant Directors (and also executive producer, but his role as an AD is more relevant here) has said that Bale was normally completely professional on the shoot and simply lost it for a few moments at the end of a very long hard day, and after that was perfectly fine again.

Some of you are also misrepresenting the situation somewhat. The Director of Photography walked onto the set and into the shot during a take to make an adjustment to a light. From what Bale said, this was not the first time this had happened, and there was an issue with this DP constantly moving about during a take.

If a low-level crew member did something like that there's a good chance they'd be fired on the spot. It's an absolute no-no. You NEVER walk into shot during a take.

Bear in mind this happened during filming of one of the most drama-intensive scenes of the entire film. While some actors have this surreal ability to snap in and out of character, most actors have to go through a process of descending into their character, and for some it can be quite hard to do, and hard to maintain. We've all heard legendary stories of actors who were so "in the moment" that they did things in character that were not intended. Martin Sheen smashing the mirror in Apocalypse Now, and Juliette Lewis breaking Tom Sizemore's nose in Natural Born Killers.

I can imagine an actor being irate at a crew member for screwing up a dramatic scene - it takes hours to set up a shot and get everything exactly right, and even though you can do multiple takes, once you get that one performance/shot that nails it, you will never, ever get that same perfect shot again.

If that particular crew member has screwed up shots previously, and if that crew member is a HOD who should know better, and if the actor is tired and stressed by a hard day's work and perhaps the recent untimely death of a fellow actor, yeah, I can imagine the actor losing it and biting the guy's head off.

This sort of thing is actually pretty common. As as 2nd AD I once had to interrupt a very angry argument between a Producer and Director to tell the Director to get on set so we could start shooting. At final technical rehearsals for a stage production of Les Miserables me and the entire rest of the cast hastily made our way out of the auditorium when the director and stage manager started an outright screaming match with each other.

In those sorts of highly strung close-proximity situations, people lose it. True professionals are the ones that get over it quickly, move on, and keep working. We have no evidence that Bale held any sort of grudge against the DP - he even says in the rant he's a good guy.

Let's not judge too soon.

(By the way, the OP doesn't make it clear, but this incident happened months ago - the news is that audio of the incident has just emerged)

[Cain]

A few thoughts. It's bad, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone suggests. People talk worse in construction, the military, and some offices. People are interested in Bale's meltdown because he's rich, famous, talented and good looking. That's why he's interesting -- I suppose -- and why fans think his behavior is somehow justified, which is crazy. The best comment I heard is to imagine if a woman had gone off on such a rant. She'd be universally condemned as a ****-bitch from hell. Anyway, I bet that guy didn't walk into his sight-line again.

[gumboot]

Uh, it's not a smart move to tick off the camera department. They can make the actor's day a rough one. Say the actor gives a great take... the camera guys go, "Ooops, sorry, hair in the gate. We need another take." So the actor pours out another great take... the camera guys go, "Ooops, sorry, that one was soft. We need to go again." Repeat as needed. And then there's the fact that they can make any actor look terrible on film by lighting them the wrong way.

I very much doubt a Focus Puller with start doing that sort of crap to back up a DP. DPs generally come through the lighting department, not Camera, and Shane Hurlbut is no exception.

Aside from that, in my experience Focus Pullers are the most precise, technical capable, and professional people on a film set. It comes with the job.

Now the lighting department, yeah I could see them doing crap like that.


The stories about Cameron on set are legendary, no doubt. Though in a recent interview here on the CBC show The Hour, Cameron more or less admits to being something of an s.o.b. on set, but says he has a better attitude now and saw the errors in his old ways.

How recent? My friend worked with him on Avatar last year and said the guy's a total ass-wipe.

[gumboot]

The best comment I heard is to imagine if a woman had gone off on such a rant. She'd be universally condemned as a ****-bitch from hell.


Actresses do that sort of thing far more often than actors, in my experience. And they're far more likely to hold a grudge. Samantha Morton decided she didn't like Vincent Ward on River Queen and nearly destroyed the film as a result.

If something like that happened during an intense scene of a film, I would expect either an actor, or the director, or maybe the 1st AD to go off like that. Perhaps not for that long, but I'd expect plenty of swearing and threats that they get fired.

Yes, that's how bad walking onto the set during a take is.

[four elevener]

Can you imagine a film starring Christian Bale and Russell Crowe, with Naomi Campbell in a supporting role and directed by James Cameron?

[Corsair 115]

I very much doubt a Focus Puller with start doing that sort of crap to back up a DP. DPs generally come through the lighting department, not Camera, and Shane Hurlbut is no exception.


Depends on who hired who and if they've all worked together before, and the size of the crew involved and the scale of the shoot.


How recent? My friend worked with him on Avatar last year and said the guy's a total ass-wipe.


It was rerun here a few weeks back. Not sure when it was taped, probably back in the summer I think. Cameron was in Toronto as he had received a star on the Canadian Walk of Fame.

[TX50]

No idea who "Christian Baler" is but in that he certainly sounds like a self-
important bell-end. Like most of these so-called "celebrities" he needs to go
and get a real job.

[Tbone]

When I heard this clip, the first thing I thought was how much he stuck with the American accent during the rant (although some UK did slip in there). If I was flying off the handle, I probably wouldn't put too much thought into talking like the guy I'm acting. But then again, when Bale was promoting Batman, he didn't speak in a Welsh accent during the entire time and had the nameplate on his trailer read "Bruce Wayne."

[gumboot]

When I heard this clip, the first thing I thought was how much he stuck with the American accent during the rant (although some UK did slip in there). If I was flying off the handle, I probably wouldn't put too much thought into talking like the guy I'm acting. But then again, when Bale was promoting Batman, he didn't speak in a Welsh accent during the entire time and had the nameplate on his trailer read "Bruce Wayne."


He's apparently a pretty full-on method actor who really gets into his role.

[calebprime]

I would love to know what is your idea of going over the top. Try that in your workplace and see what happens.


Well, I agree. Behavior is contextual.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that all life is like an office job. Thank fsm, it's not.

and, someone mentioned Buddy Rich--the good drummer, famous for his rants.

I'm a musician--my workplace was a soundproofed room, and I screamed and swore much worse than that when I worked--and that's when things were going well.


@ Lonewulf

mitigating circumstances:

1) He's an intense actor, hired for that trait.
2) There was a provocation
3) He complains about the provocation, he doesn't globalize that much
4) He wants to get back to work

(5) ? again, it matters a good deal what was being said back to him--the worst thing you can do with someone who is upset like this is not to take him seriously

[Chris H]

Probably a good thing Bale didn't notice this... ;)

Chris

[Lonewulf]

@ Lonewulf

mitigating circumstances:

1) He's an intense actor, hired for that trait.
2) There was a provocation
3) He complains about the provocation, he doesn't globalize that much
4) He wants to get back to work

(5) ? again, it matters a good deal what was being said back to him--the worst thing you can do with someone who is upset like this is not to take him seriously
Er, "he wants to get back to work"?

You didn't listen to the clip, I see. Since he did anything but get back to work, as the other guy tried to placate him and get back to work, just as mentioned. Bale would "calm down" for a second, then come back, getting worse and worse, eventually threatening to do physical harm to him.

So strike 4. As for 3, I'm pretty sure the provocation wasn't worth "kicking his ass". In fact, takes get ruined all the time. What the hell do you think blooper reels are for?

The "mitigating circumstances" just seems like an excuse to apologize for the rich/famous. The response didn't match the provocation, I can't get away with insulting and physically threatening a coworker just because I'm "intense" (even if I landed an acting gig), unless I somehow got incredibly famous/rich, and 4 is just outright wrong.

[mummymonkey]

Christian "Out On" Bail sounds like a bully. There's no excuse for that behaviour. Been making films since he was a boy and probably used to getting his own way.

[BenBurch]

I don't see the issue.

Have you ever acted?

This would have ruined ANY scene.

[calebprime]

Er, "he wants to get back to work"?

You didn't listen to the clip, I see. Since he did anything but get back to work, as the other guy tried to placate him and get back to work, just as mentioned. Bale would "calm down" for a second, then come back, getting worse and worse, eventually threatening to do physical harm to him.

So strike 4. As for 3, I'm pretty sure the provocation wasn't worth "kicking his ass". In fact, takes get ruined all the time. What the hell do you think blooper reels are for?

The "mitigating circumstances" just seems like an excuse to apologize for the rich/famous. The response didn't match the provocation, I can't get away with insulting and physically threatening a coworker just because I'm "intense" (even if I landed an acting gig), unless I somehow got incredibly famous/rich, and 4 is just outright wrong.

I did in fact listen to the clip, and he says several times, let's do another take. I read his behavior as being psyched, stressed, and impatient.

McEnroe was far more obnoxious than this.



Gumboot has already spoken to the way things are done on set. The norm for behavior is not the same as the norm for an office. This doesn't excuse whatever his behavior was, but it also speaks to one of the main issues here: People who are used to polite conversation and a high degree of inhibition are going to be a little shocked or perhaps envious. Someone dropped his smiley face!

Whether he was actually threatening (in the physical sense) is not there for us to see--that's a matter of who was standing where, conveying what body language.

Anger occurs in time. You get angry, you're that way for a minute or two.

Perhaps he's an asshat--I have no idea from this clip.

I'm not going to go back and listen again--unless there's some serious issue about who said what that would change things. Once was enough. If we want to get into close reading, I think we should transcribe it. Turn up the gain enough, we can hear both sides of the conversation, although not what led up to it. But I'm not going to do this, unless I'm really desperate for something to do.

My scorn is reserved for the 6 O'clock News types who were chortling over this, enjoying it, and pulling out cliches like "Someone is going to need to attend his anger management classes!"

These are the people I fear, not the "bullies" or "temperamental" types.

[Lonewulf]

I don't see the issue.

Have you ever acted?

This would have ruined ANY scene.

Yeah, ruined the scene. So horrible. They'd have to do it over again. That's never happened before; egads.

People have done less over issues of road rage, or after an accident.

[BenBurch]

Yeah, ruined the scene. So horrible. They'd have to do it over again. That's never happened before; egads.

People have done less over issues of road rage, or after an accident.

Its not like he pulled out a gun. He screamed at the guy who was interrupting a shoot. A shoot costs about $3,000 per hour on a sound stage if I recall correctly. So you screw up a scene (and this was the SECOND time the same person did it) and it costs money.

[Lonewulf]

Its not like he pulled out a gun. He screamed at the guy who was interrupting a shoot. A shoot costs about $3,000 per hour on a sound stage if I recall correctly. So you screw up a scene (and this was the SECOND time the same person did it) and it costs money.

Yeah, because Christian Bale has a serious want for money.

And no, he didn't pull out a gun. But, even if I was losing money, can you name me a single job that doesn't require special apology, where I can yell at someone for 5 minutes and threaten to "kick his ass" with NO repercussions whatsoever?

Either way, Christian deserves to be mocked for this. And he is, frequently, and with much force. :)

[Buckaroo]

How recent? My friend worked with him on Avatar last year and said the guy's a total ass-wipe.

I had a friend who was on the Akademik Mstislav Keldysh while he was filming Aliens of the Deep. Noting that he was a perfectly reasonable, nice guy when he wasn't on the set, she asked him why he treated his crew so badly. "I've found that that's what works best to get things done," he said. Having spent a few years in film production as a low-level crew member, I can sympathize with this approach, as I know the types of personalities that are frequently attracted to the industry.

[Mongrel]

YBut, even if I was losing money, can you name me a single job that doesn't require special apology, where I can yell at someone for 5 minutes and threaten to "kick his ass" with NO repercussions whatsoever?

Head chef...

Gordon Ramsay anyone?

That said it's a hugely stressful job, everything has to be just right and mistakes cost money. After the shift is over he's just 'one of the guys'. He'll also back his staff to the hilt if they're halfway competent, I believe he walked out of one kitchen after one of the chefs got fired for a spurious reason.

[jmcvann]

a) We're talking about acting. It's a piece of cake. The hardest acting job doesn't compare to digging ditches. I'm not buying the "stress" excuse.

b) Mistakes on the set cost money? Sure, But not Bale's money.

c) He's making a Terminator movie, for cripes sake. This isn't Shakespeare - or anything with a serious plot and necessary character development. He really needs to get over himself.

d) Someone commented on the "kind of people" who work on films, implying arrogance and incompetence. My experience is completely the opposite of that. Nearly everyone in all my acting endeavours has been talented and a team player. That is one of the main attractions of the craft for me: A group of creative, diverse people coming together to make art.

[jmcvann]

It just occurred to me that Bale could be angry because he's realized that this project is a steaming pile of dung. I mean, again, it's a frickin' Terminator movie.

[Buckaroo]

d) Someone commented on the "kind of people" who work on films, implying arrogance and incompetence. My experience is completely the opposite of that. Nearly everyone in all my acting endeavours has been talented and a team player. That is one of the main attractions of the craft for me: A group of creative, diverse people coming together to make art.

Was that me? I didn't mean for it to be taken that way. I agree with you. What I meant was that the personalities tend to be strong, and often will respect an equally uncompromising, sometimes wrathful leader more than one who makes nice. Many exceptions, of course.

[Lonewulf]

It just occurred to me that Bale could be angry because he's realized that this project is a steaming pile of dung. I mean, again, it's a frickin' Terminator movie.

Going too far.

Terminator and Terminator 2 were great movies. And IMO, the Sarah Connor Chronicles, while it had some flaws, was a great series.

There's no need to attack the genre.

(Terminator 3 was a travesty, though)

[dudalb]

I have been on the edges of theater people for most of my life, and when I was living in SoCal knew a number of technicians who were in "the business", and I simply don't buy this "He is a talented artist, and therefore the rules of common decent behavior toward others do not apply" Bullcrap. It is just a slightly more intellectual version of the "Rules don't apply to a Celeb" mentality.
Look being upset and maybe shouting a four letter word once is one thing, going off into a total rage like Bale is another. I just do not buy this whole "Sensative Artist have a right to behave like asswipes" garbage.
And Bale has a history of bad behavior. The indicent with his mother right before the Dark Knight premiere comes to mind.

[Bob Klase]

And IMO, the Sarah Connor Chronicles, while it had some flaws, was a great series.

"Was" a great series? Is it not a great series now or did you think it had been cancelled?

[Lonewulf]

And Bale has a history of bad behavior. The indicent with his mother right before the Dark Knight premiere comes to mind.

I wasn't here for that. Have a link/summary for me?

[dudalb]

Yeah, and I have problems with the "it was an important emotional scence in the movie" either. It's a freaking action movie about humans vs robots, for Heaven's sake. We are not talking "Hamlet" or "Death Of A Salesmen" here.

(Terminator 3 was a travesty, though)

Agreed. And When I heard Uber Hack McG was directing T4, I wrote the project off.
Cameron is a total jerk by all accounts, but the guy knows how to write and direct a good action film. McG has not a clue. ALso not to mention McG should have defused this situation on the set instead of behaving like a total wimp. A director who cannot control his set is not, frankly, a very good director.

[Lonewulf]

"Was" a great series? Is it not a great series now or did you think it had been cancelled?

Bwahahahaha!

I don't watch TV. It shows, doesn't it? I tend to rent out series on DVD, or buy it straight out (I bought the first season of The Sarah Connor Chronicles), so I tend to not pay attention to where the series is currently.

I stand (actually, sit) corrected. :)

[dudalb]

I wasn't here for that. Have a link/summary for me?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/jul/22/christian.bale?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

Charges were dropped, but it certainly suggests that Bale has, let us say, issues....

[Lonewulf]

Agreed. And When I heard Uber Hack McG was directing T4, I wrote the project off.
Cameron is a total jerk by all accounts, but the guy knows how to write and direct a good action film. McG has not a clue. ALso not to mention McG should have defused this situation on the set instead of behaving like a total wimp. A director who cannot control his set is not, frankly, a very good director.

I admit some ignorance to specific Directors, but I was rather astonished that Bale was able to yell for that long with only some pathetic attempts at placating.

Honestly, if I were the guy working the lights, I'd be tempted to shout, "Fine! I get it! You can shut the **** up now!" (I'd say something witty, but I don't have a tendency to think on my feet, especially when people are yelling at me or distracting me from being able to think).

But I'd probably get fired, unlike Bale, and people on this thread would be saying how bad I was and that poor Bale got his feelings hurt. :D

[jmcvann]

Going too far.

Terminator and Terminator 2 were great movies. And IMO, the Sarah Connor Chronicles, while it had some flaws, was a great series.

There's no need to attack the genre.

(Terminator 3 was a travesty, though)

Great? Hmmmmm...I'll give you good. And "good" for "blow everything up" movies. But as I always say: Art is subjective. We all get to like what we like.

[jmcvann]

Was that me? I didn't mean for it to be taken that way. I agree with you. What I meant was that the personalities tend to be strong, and often will respect an equally uncompromising, sometimes wrathful leader more than one who makes nice. Many exceptions, of course.

Looking back - yeah, it was you. Your expansion on what you meant is well done. No harm. No foul.

[Lonewulf]

Great? Hmmmmm...I'll give you good. And "good" for "blow everything up" movies. But as I always say: Art is subjective. We all get to like what we like.

Really? That's all you got out of it? "Blow everything up"? That describes Terminator 3 pretty well; it was just blowing things up.

It didn't have half of the message of T2 or T1, though, or the Sarah Connor Chronicles, all of which involve quite a bit more than just "blowing everything up". But yeah, art is subjective. I'm pretty sure that it's objectively true that there was a philosophical backdrop, and real depth to the characters, of T1, T2, and TSSC. Now, you can say that you don't *like* that particular depth, or that the philosophy was "weak" (much like one could say of The Matrix Trilogy), but you can't deny that it's *there*.

[Tbone]

a) We're talking about acting. It's a piece of cake.

What an odd thing to say. This seems to imply that transplating Pauly Shore for Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump would make no difference at all.

[Lonewulf]

What an odd thing to say. This seems to imply that transplating Pauly Shore for Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump would make no difference at all.

I'll make sure to tell that to my friend that works 14-hour shifts in factories, carrying equipment at awkward positions that weigh around 20 lbs., and where a single mistake could potentially mean a life-long major injury to death.

"Look at it this way, David... you could be ACTING! That's so much harder!"

Then he can feel much better about himself for the 7 days a week he works, for months on end.

Guess what happens if David yells like Bale did, for 5 minutes on end, with "I should kick your ass!", in front of HIS supervisor?




Note: He takes huge breaks, months on end. But he also works for months on end.

[ZirconBlue]

I'll make sure to tell that to my friend that works 14-hour shifts in factories, carrying equipment at awkward positions that weigh around 20 lbs., and where a single mistake could potentially mean a life-long major injury to death.

"Look at it this way, David... you could be ACTING! That's so much harder!"

Then he can feel much better about himself for the 7 days a week he works, for months on end.

Guess what happens if David yells like Bale did, for 5 minutes on end, with "I should kick your ass!", in front of HIS supervisor?


Note: He takes huge breaks, months on end. But he also works for months on end.


So, only physical labor is "hard work"? Brain Surgery? Pfft. That's easy. It's just slicing stuff up!

The straw man's on the other foot, now!

[Lonewulf]

So, only physical labor is "hard work"? Brain Surgery? Pfft. That's easy. It's just slicing stuff up!

The straw man's on the other foot, now!

Ah, so acting is as difficult as brain surgery?

Okay. A brain surgeon spends 5 minutes yelling at a nurse, and says, "I should *********** cut you/beat you up! I should *********** bust up your sonar machine!"

House is fiction, you know.

To make your rather pedantic point, you missed the forest for the trees. The forest was this: Christian Bale acted like an asshat. Period. End of discussion. Anything else is special pleading. "He works hard!!!1111oneoneone" is ignoring all of the many hard working jobs where you CAN'T get away with that kind of behavior. And yes, working 14 hours a day for 7 days a week IS hard work, period, and it STILL doesn't justify the behavior. Do you agree or disagree, or do you just have more pedant to play?

And I still say that he deserves to be mocked for it.

[NoZed Avenger]

If Batman really went nuts I would've expected more cripplings and dead bodies.

[NotJesus]

When it comes to going postal, Christian Bale can't hold Klaus Kinski's sack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yITx7txr-7M&feature=related

Werner Herzog calls this outburst "rather mild" by Kinski's standards.

[ZirconBlue]

Ah, so acting is as difficult as brain surgery?

Okay. A brain surgeon spends 5 minutes yelling at a nurse, and says, "I should *********** cut you/beat you up! I should *********** bust up your sonar machine!"

House is fiction, you know.

To make your rather pedantic point, you missed the forest for the trees. The forest was this: Christian Bale acted like an asshat. Period. End of discussion. Anything else is special pleading. "He works hard!!!1111oneoneone" is ignoring all of the many hard working jobs where you CAN'T get away with that kind of behavior. And yes, working 14 hours a day for 7 days a week IS hard work, period, and it STILL doesn't justify the behavior. Do you agree or disagree, or do you just have more pedant to play?

And I still say that he deserves to be mocked for it.


I can't listen to the audio here at work, so I have not yet formed an opinion on Bale's behavior. jmcvann made an absurd claim that acting is "a piece of cake", and Tbone rightly called him out on it. You, then, decided to construct the strawman argument that Tbone was somehow saying that an actor's job is "harder" than your friend's manual labor.

My entire point is that there are many different types of "hard work", beyond just manual labor. I'm sure I could not do your friend's job, but I'm similarly fairly sure he couldn't do mine. Neither of us could do the brain surgeons job.

And, seriously, Lonewulf: I like you and agree with you on many issues, but you have a bad habit of jumping to conclusions and attributing positions to people that they haven't expressed. Neither Tbone or I, in the posts you responded to even mentioned Bale. Both of those posts only went to the point of whether acting can be "hard work", which doesn't in any way hinge on whether Bale's actions were justified.

And, I think, were he alive today, Heath Ledger might disagree about how stressful and demanding acting can be.

[Psi Baba]

I would think that the director or the rest of the crew should be more upset over a spoiled scene than the actor. This is what I like about the European approaching to film-making. They regard the actors as merely a necessary evil because they need bodies to move around and carry out action--the film is really the art of the director and the crew. The function of the actors is secondary. In the U.S. we have blended theater with cinema and simply point cameras at a "performance" and call it a film. The failure of this approach is borne out any time a movie is scripted around the "talents" of an actor. When you see the phrase "vehicle for [actor's name]" in a movie synopsis, you already know to avoid it like the plague.

Too many celebrities are just spoiled brats. In contrast, read what Tom Jones had to say to Larry King about how "difficult" it is to be a performer (I'll always admire him because of this anecdote):
JONES: Oh, yes. And I knew that when I was a kid, I thought, if I could sing, you know, for a living, and not have to do a job of work that I don't like, which a lot of people -- most people...

KING: Ninety-five percent.

JONES: Exactly. To survive they have to go and do a job of work,. And then when they go home, they do something which is their hobby that they really like.

Well, singing was my hobby. And I thought if I could do this, you know, that would be it. What could -- how could I complain about anything after that? And that's what happened. And it turned out the way I thought it would, you know.

KING: So you've enjoyed all of this?

JONES: Oh, definitely.

KING: The whole ride?

JONES: Yes. There's no -- I mean, the little -- sometimes -- oh, I remember one time -- just a short story -- when I was doing my TV shows and I did a lot of them from London. And I had this big rolls Royce Phantom 6, you know, with my driver, you know. And I had been drinking the night before. I had been.

And so, I flopped in the back of the car to go to the TV station. So when we get there -- I was sleeping, you know, in the back. So he wakes me up. Come on. I though, Oh, my God. I got to go in there now. And it was a production day. I had to do a production number, you know? With these dancers. I thought, oh my God. I have to go in there now today and I have to get made up and I got to do all this.

So when I stepped out of the car, there was a hod (ph) carrier, which I used to do. They were extending the facility. And so there was a fellow carrying bricks up a ladder on his shoulder, which I used to do. You know, carrying...

KING: As a job?

JONES: As a job. As a kid. So when I stepped out of the car and I looked up and he looked down at me he said, Hey, Tom? You want to help me out with this? Because he knew that that's what I used to do. And I thought, My God, I'm complaining about -- you know, I'm thinking to myself, oh, I have to do this production number and this kid is going to be running up and down that ladder all day.

And I thought, Oh, you know, I sort of shook -- I walked in the studio. I sat down in front of the makeup girl. I said, OK, let's go. And she said, My God. You're happy this morning. What is it? I said, I just saw somebody doing the job of work that I used to do, you know, and I was complaining about coming in -- you know, not complaining but not wanting to come and do this today.

KING: Wow.

[Lonewulf]

Keith Ledger enjoyed his role and wanted to continue it, that's why he took pills to push himself... many authors do the same thing, actually. Taking various amphetamines has been a long-used practice, it's not like it's something new or exclusive to acting.

And remember what we're dealing with: The claim, which was what people were responding to, that he should be given preferential treatment because acting was uniquely difficult.

[dudalb]

Having a stressful and demanding job that requires concentration does not give you the right treat the people around like crap.


If Batman really went nuts I would've expected more cripplings and dead bodies.

Maybe Something like this


The DP "I swear to God, Mr Bale, I will never step into your line of sight again"?
Bale (grabbing the DP by his lapel and lifting him up) "DON"T SWEAR TO GOD,SWEAR TO ME!".

[tomwaits]

Keith Ledger enjoyed his role and wanted to continue it, that's why he took pills to push himself... many authors do the same thing, actually. Taking various amphetamines has been a long-used practice, it's not like it's something new or exclusive to acting.

I think Stephen King wrote all of It on a cocaine binge.

[ZirconBlue]

Having a stressful and demanding job that requires concentration does not give you the right treat the people around like crap.

I agree. But, just because an actor (allegedly) treated someone like crap, doesn't give others the right to disparage an entire profession (or genre of film, for that matter). Do celebrities often get away with behavior that would be unacceptable elsewhere? Yes. Does that say anything at all about how hard they work? No.

[Lonewulf]

I agree. But, just because an actor (allegedly) treated someone like crap, doesn't give others the right to disparage an entire profession (or genre of film, for that matter). Do celebrities often get away with behavior that would be unacceptable elsewhere? Yes. Does that say anything at all about how hard they work? No.

Now who's talking strawman? Who claimed, or even came close to saying, that you could draw a conclusion about acting based on Bale acting out?

As for "allegedly", do you need a transcript?

Bale: kick your f***in ass! I want you off the f***in set, you prick!

Hurlbut: Im sorry.

Bale: No, dont just be sorry! Think for one f***in second! What the f*** are you doing? (Editors note: The following sentence is what makes this Deceiver-worthy.) Are you professional or not?

Hurlbut: Yes, I am.

Bale: Do I f***in walk around and rip down No, shut the f*** up, Bruce! Do I walk No! Nnno! Dont shut me up!

Bruce: Im not shutting you up.

Bale: Am I gonna walk around and rip your f***in lights down? In the middle of a scene? Then why the f*** are you walkin right through? Oh, dah-dah, dah-dah, like this in the background. What the f*** is it with you? What dont you f***in understand? You got any f***in idea about, hey, its f***in distracting having somebody walkin up behind Bryce in the middle of the f***in scene? Gimme a f***in answer! What dont you get about it?

Hurlbut: I was looking at the light.

Bale: Ohhhhh, goooood for you! And how was it? I hope it was f***in good, because its useless now, isnt it?

Hurlbut: Okay.

Bale: F***s sake, man, youre amateur. McG, you have f***in somethin to say to this prick?

McG: I didnt see it happen.

Bale: Well, somebody should be f***in watchin him and keepin an eye on him.

McG: Fair enough.

Bale: Its the second time that he doesnt give a f***. About what is goin on in front of the camera. Alright? Im tryin to f***in do a scene here and Im goin, Why the f*** is Shane walkin in there? What is he doin there? Do you understand, my mind is not in the scene if youre doin that.

Hurlbut: I absolutely apologize. Im sorry, I did not mean anything by it.

Bale: Stay off the f***in set, man. For f***s sake. Right, lets go again. No, lets not take a f***in minute, lets go again! And lets not have you f***in walkin in! Can I have Tom put this on, please?

McG: Tom, wardrobe, please. Can I have Tom, wardrobe?

Bale: You;re unbelievable, man. You're un-f***in-believable. Number of times youre strollin a-f***in-round in the background. Ive never had a DP behave like this. Ahhhhh, you dont f***in understand what its like workin with actors, thats what that is.

Hurlbut: No, thats not

Bale: Thats what that is, man, Im tellin you! Im not askin, Im tellin you. You wouldnt have done that otherwise.

Hurlbut: No, what it is, is looking at the light, and making sure that you were

Bale: [sound of something being knocked over] Im gonna f***in kick your f***in ass! If you dont shut up for a second, alright?

Various voices: Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, its cool, its cool.

Bale: Im gonna go, you want me to f***in trash your lights? Do you want me to f***in trash em? Then why are you trashin my scene?

Hurlbut: Im not tryin to trash

Bale: You are trashin my scene! You do it one more f***in time, and I aint walkin on this set if youre still hired. Im f***in serious. Youre a nice guy! Youre a nice guy! But that dont f***in cut it when youre bulls****in and f***in around like this on set!

McG: I got it, I know, I get it.

Bale: Yeah, you might get it, he doesnt f***in get it! You might. He! Does! Not! Get it!

McG: I know. Good adjustments, okay? For real. Honestly. I get it. Just walk for 5 seconds, just for 5 seconds

Bale: No, I dont need any f***in walkin! He needs to stop walkin!

McG: I get that!

Bale: I aint the one walkin! Lets get Tom and put this back on, lets go again. Seriously, man, you and me, were f***in done professionally. F***in ass.

[ZirconBlue]

And remember what we're dealing with: The claim, which was what people were responding to, that he should be given preferential treatment because acting was uniquely difficult.

Evidence that anyone in this thread mad the claim "that he should be given preferential treatment because acting was uniquely difficult.?

Evidence that Tbone made any such claim?

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I wonder how rich and famous you need to be before you can act like a complete tit like that and get away with it.

It's a sad fact of life that if you are handsome, rich, famous and very talented, you can get away with practically anything. Anything at all, enspecially if you are in an enviornment where everyone treats you like a god and bends to your every wish and whim and if the person on the other end isn't your equal.

I wonder if directors and studios might put up with obnoxious actors because of their talent, not their wealth and fame. If a B- or C- lister behaved like that, maybe they'd have alot less patience and tolerance.

[Lonewulf]

Evidence that anyone in this thread mad the claim "that he should be given preferential treatment because acting was uniquely difficult.?

Evidence that Tbone made any such claim?

Ah, okay. Then the whole discussion, as far as I'm concerned, is void if no one did, as it's not a factor and shouldn't have been brought up at all, or spawned any kind of discussion.

"Acting is hard, just any other kind of job" doesn't seem to have much at all to do with the OP, and I follow enough derails as it is.

[ZirconBlue]

Now who's talking strawman? Who claimed, or even came close to saying, that you could draw a conclusion about acting based on Bale acting out?

Both jmcvann and dudalb were perferctly happy to use this incident as an excuse disparage "acting" in general, and this role, in particular:

a) We're talking about acting. It's a piece of cake. The hardest acting job doesn't compare to digging ditches. I'm not buying the "stress" excuse.

c) He's making a Terminator movie, for cripes sake. This isn't Shakespeare - or anything with a serious plot and necessary character development. He really needs to get over himself.


Yeah, and I have problems with the "it was an important emotional scence in the movie" either. It's a freaking action movie about humans vs robots, for Heaven's sake. We are not talking "Hamlet" or "Death Of A Salesmen" here.



As for "allegedly", do you need a transcript?

As I mentioned above, I have not yet had the opportunity to hear the audio. So, yes, thank you.

Bale: kick your f***in ass! I want you off the f***in set, you prick!

[snip]

Bale: I aint the one walkin! Lets get Tom and put this back on, lets go again. Seriously, man, you and me, were f***in done professionally. F***in ass.

That does seem pretty a-holish. I don't approve of such behavior, and it's unacceptable regardless of who is exhibiting the behavior. If this is common behavior for him, then he really needs to see someone about his anger issues.

[gumboot]

Okay people let's get some facts straight please?

1) No one is saying acting is "harder" than another job. All that has been said is that filmmaking is a particularly stressful job, and that for an actor in particular it is very emotional. I am sure working in a factory or doing brain surgery is hard work, and can be quite stressful. I'd be willing to bet enormous amounts of money that it doesn't even hold a candle to the level of emotional stress you're exposed to on a film set.

On the point of money... one of the major stresses on a big film set is the knowledge that you're burning huge sums of money every time you delay. A decade ago the set of Xena cost $10,000 an hour to run, so I'd imagine that something like the set of T4 today would be costing $20,000 an hour easily. It doesn't matter if you're being paid $20 million or $10 an hour, you feel the stress of that pressure. The producer makes sure everyone feels that stress. It's actually one of the major factors for why productions shot on film tend to be better than productions shot on video - with film everyone is conscious that you're burning money, so everyone is more focused and on their game.

I highlight this because while working hard won't cause emotional outbursts, and even while being stressed may not cause emotional outbursts, being emotionally stressed certainly will.

2) There are particular circumstances that make this individual more prone to such an outburst. Firstly, he's a pretty intensive method actor. Those attempting to trash the film to refute this are way off base. Firstly, you haven't seen the film or read a script so you have NO idea whether there's much acting involved. Secondly, there's no direct relationship between the intensity an actor gives to a role and the amount of intensity a given role requires. Keanu Reeves is a prime example of a (particularly bad) actor who gives huge intensity to cardboard cut out characters.

Secondly, if reports are to believed, Bale took the death of Heath Ledger (six months earlier) particularly hard, as the two of them had become quite close shooting The Dark Knight. Bale was reportedly very angry about his death because he felt the two of them could have become close friends. I'm willing to give the man some slack.

Lastly, context is everything. This guy who screwed up on set here wasn't the runner or a lighting trainee. It was the DP. Maybe this guy was pissing everyone off with his behaviour. Even a 1st AD would be quite hesitant about telling a DP what to do, and in this case the director has a work history with the DP so that's going to make it harder. Bale may very well have been the only person on set who could tell this guy to cut it out and get away with it. But he's got the entire resentment and annoyance of the whole crew behind him; he's a spokesman for the frustration of every department of people who has been working so hard.

Because that's what it feels like on a film set. Everyone works together towards this single goal of getting the perfect take, and when some retard screws it up the ENTIRE CREW feel like their hard work has been betrayed. Not just some individual actor. But the actors, right there in the middle of the set, are most exposed to everyone's resentment and frustration, and they feel it more than anyone.

Now, I'm sure some of you think I'm trying to argue that acting is some sort of magical special job that excuses behaving badly, but you've got it wrong, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm just trying to get people to appreciate that this sort of acting puts you in a unique situation. Not necessarily more difficult, not necessarily more "special" but it's unique. The dynamic of that context lends itself to opening up people to that sort of outburst.

3) The infraction that caused the rant, while maybe not perceived as serious to non film people, is VERY serious in the context of the film industry. I cannot stress enough how absolutely wrong it is to do what the DP did. Frankly the most astounding thing for me is that such a high level DP would do something that ridiculously unprofessional on such a high profile film set. I don't agree with Bale's methods for expressing himself, but I agree with his sentiment.

4) Last point, please pay attention. THIS SORT OF THING IS COMMON IN THE FILM INDUSTRY. Don't weep about the poor DPs hurt feelings. I am sure he's done similar things to lighting assistants under his direction before. DPs are the worst offenders as far as these off-the-handle rants go - British DPs are world famous for it to the point that the psychotic ranting British DP is practically an industry cliche. Maybe you think this sort of thing is unprofessional. Maybe you think it's totally unacceptable. Fine. Don't ever work in the film industry. (Likewise I'd recommend you never join the military, or work in Gordon Ramsay's kitchen). Most ironic of all is seeing people excuse James Cameron's behaviour because he makes good films. Talk about double standards.

I see nothing newsworthy here. The First Assistant Director said it wasn't an issue at all, that Bale was totally fine and professional the rest of the shoot, and that there were no issues with him and the DP. The 1st AD should know, because he's the one in charge of the set.

And before you ask why he didn't stop Bale's tirade, one of your crucial roles as an AD is to manage personalities, and this AD had worked with Bale before. I'm guessing he knew Bale would calm down and go back to his usual professional self as soon as the incident was over. In this situation you shut up, you take it, and you move on. The worst thing you can try and do is justify yourself or talk reason to the ranter, which it sounds like the DP did.

There is, of course, one other thing to consider. I have no idea what the context of the scene is, so this is purely speculation, but it's possible the rant was a performance for the benefit of his co-star. If he needed her to be afraid or shocked at him, doing something like this immediately before another take would be perfect. I only suggest this because Bale did his first major acting job with Steven Spielberg, and Spielberg is famous for crossing the line between the set and the scene in order to get real reactions from his actors.

It's a possibility. The message is - don't assume you know all of the context, because in the film industry, you most certainly don't. Hell, I wouldn't put it past the production team that the entire thing is a publicity stunt.

For anyone who is interesting in where I am coming from, I am an Assistant Director, so I work intimately with cast, and I run film sets. I've also been acting since I was a child. No, I've never had a rant like that. No, I don't think I ever would. People cope with the unique stress of a film set in different ways. But what I do know is while I've seen total asshats spew anger, I have also seen really decent, kind, professional people go off on rants just like the Christian Bale one. So I'm not willing to crucify the guy over a single audio clip. Sorry.

[ZirconBlue]

Ah, okay. Then the whole discussion, as far as I'm concerned, is void if no one did, as it's not a factor and shouldn't have been brought up at all, or spawned any kind of discussion.

"Acting is hard, just any other kind of job" doesn't seem to have much at all to do with the OP, and I follow enough derails as it is.


Letting a topic go after a thoughtful exchange of ideas? What are you, the anti-Claus?;)

Seriously, I didn't see your post before composing my most recent response or I would've let it go there. I'm happy to drop the subject if you are.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I'll buy that acting can be a hard job at times. It can't be fun to have to wake up at 5 in the morning, stand around for hours doing nothing, go through hours of make-up every day, be away from home for months at a time and have your privacy regularly invaded.

On the other hand, if actors don't like having the kind of life the vast majority of the world can only dream of, they can work 9 to 5 in an office or handle a cash register at the Dairy Queen for a living.

Isn't it ironic that the director, the person who should be upset that his take was ruined, couldn't care less about what happened and is perfectly willing to do it over but the actor is foaming at the mouth? Judging from what he says in the audio clip, "McG" doesn't care, so why should you?

Sure, a movie is a team effort but if anyone disciplines an employee, it's the boss. Not someone else hired to work for a project.

[alfaniner]

I propose that we send the phrase "going postal" to the recycle bin and replace it with "Bale-ing".

[dudalb]

I don't know what world Gumboot is living in ,but when the star of the second most sucessful film in history goes bonkers on a film set, that is going to be news when it leaks out.
I see nobody crucifying the guy,unless you consider poking fun at him for behaving like a jerk crucifiction.

[Buckaroo]

Gumboot hit all the points I wanted to raise, but there is another small point worth mentioning. It seems like some of the arguments on this thread boil down to the notion that the job of creating a film must necessarily be less stressful than that of physical labor or of e.g. brain surgery, simply because the result of the work, the film itself, is "only" frivolous entertainment. I don't think I need to explain why when careers are on the line and, as Gumboot pointed out, money is at stake, the societal value of the final product is irrelevant. Working in the film industry, particularly for those on the backside of the camera but also for many actors, can be an astonishingly stressful gig.

Also, though this has no bearing on the Bale discussion (but was brought up earlier, I believe), one should not underestimate the physical labor involved in filmmaking. I worked in the grip department of a couple of features some years ago, and I've never in my life been so sore after coming home from my (standard) 14 hour days. It was a hell of a lot stress, and included some Bale-level incidents, but was also one of the more rewarding jobs I've had.

[gumboot]

I'll buy that acting can be a hard job at times. It can't be fun to have to wake up at 5 in the morning, stand around for hours doing nothing, go through hours of make-up every day, be away from home for months at a time and have your privacy regularly invaded.

On the other hand, if actors don't like having the kind of life the vast majority of the world can only dream of, they can work 9 to 5 in an office or handle a cash register at the Dairy Queen for a living.

Isn't it ironic that the director, the person who should be upset that his take was ruined, couldn't care less about what happened and is perfectly willing to do it over but the actor is foaming at the mouth? Judging from what he says in the audio clip, "McG" doesn't care, so why should you?

Sure, a movie is a team effort but if anyone disciplines an employee, it's the boss. Not someone else hired to work for a project.


The director isn't the boss, by the way. In fact on a big Hollywood film the director's the most likely person to be fired.

[Buckaroo]

The director isn't the boss, by the way. In fact on a big Hollywood film the director's the most likely person to be fired.

That very thing happened halfway through a feature I was on, after which you could cut the on-set tension with a knife.

[gumboot]

I don't know what world Gumboot is living in ,but when the star of the second most sucessful film in history goes bonkers on a film set, that is going to be news when it leaks out.
I see nobody crucifying the guy,unless you consider poking fun at him for behaving like a jerk crucifiction.


I don't have any issue with people mocking him for behaving like a jerk. I bet the guy got a lot of stick from the crew after that incident. If they're anything like the crew I've worked with, Bale's rant was probably the running joke of the entire project. Mock "awards" are common at wrap parties, and I could see Bale being given a "Gentleman Award" or something.

No, I don't mind the mocking.

I do have an issue with people who are so quick to use this incident to argue that he is a jerk.

I'm trying to point out that you can't use this incident to make any meaningful judgments about Christian Bale's personality and whether he's a nice guy or not.

One of my pet hates is how the general population salivate over these out-of-context glimpses of the lives of celebrities and then makes these sweeping judgments about that person's personality, morality, or whatever.

Anyone who has much experience in film - particularly documentary film, understands well that if you monitor a person long enough - particularly in a stressful situation - you will always find enough material to portray them however you want.

That's why I would never, ever appear on one of those Survivor type shows.

[Lonewulf]

That does seem pretty a-holish. I don't approve of such behavior, and it's unacceptable regardless of who is exhibiting the behavior. If this is common behavior for him, then he really needs to see someone about his anger issues.

Glad we agree. Let's go get ice cream. :)

[Lonewulf]

So I'm not willing to crucify the guy over a single audio clip. Sorry.

That's okay.

Neither is anyone else.

In case you missed the memo, there's history with Bale that goes beyond just one or two audio clips.

[roger]

I know nothing about film, but I've worked construction (one summer), and I've spent a lot of time cooking in kitchens. That rant seemed pretty mild. When knives start flying in the kitchen (and yes, literally, I've observed this), you think "hmm, is something bothering Henry".

[gumboot]

That's okay.

Neither is anyone else.

In case you missed the memo, there's history with Bale that goes beyond just one or two audio clips.


Ah yes, a history... that history would be the unsupported allegation of verbal assault against his mother would it? The incident that happened a couple of days after this one?

My, my, he yelled at his mommy. How dare he. Apparently she was mouthing off about his wife at the time. Of course a self-respecting person like yourself would never ever get into a shouting match with your relatives, would you?

Yeah, Bale is a total loose cannon. :rolleyes:

[Lonewulf]

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that assault was purely verbal, and "wife and mother" just equated to "mother".

Glad you're so read-up, though. Glad to see that you're certainly good at educating yourself on a subject and reading posts before responding.

I'm sure you'll have more rolling eyes to impart. I certainly don't want to plague this thread with them, so I'll spare you mine.

[Redtail]

Okay people let's get some facts straight please?

1) No one is saying acting is "harder" than another job. All that has been said is that filmmaking is a particularly stressful job, and that for an actor in particular it is very emotional. I am sure working in a factory or doing brain surgery is hard work, and can be quite stressful. I'd be willing to bet enormous amounts of money that it doesn't even hold a candle to the level of emotional stress you're exposed to on a film set.

On the point of money... one of the major stresses on a big film set is the knowledge that you're burning huge sums of money every time you delay. A decade ago the set of Xena cost $10,000 an hour to run, so I'd imagine that something like the set of T4 today would be costing $20,000 an hour easily. It doesn't matter if you're being paid $20 million or $10 an hour, you feel the stress of that pressure. The producer makes sure everyone feels that stress. It's actually one of the major factors for why productions shot on film tend to be better than productions shot on video - with film everyone is conscious that you're burning money, so everyone is more focused and on their game.

I highlight this because while working hard won't cause emotional outbursts, and even while being stressed may not cause emotional outbursts, being emotionally stressed certainly will.

2) There are particular circumstances that make this individual more prone to such an outburst. Firstly, he's a pretty intensive method actor. Those attempting to trash the film to refute this are way off base. Firstly, you haven't seen the film or read a script so you have NO idea whether there's much acting involved. Secondly, there's no direct relationship between the intensity an actor gives to a role and the amount of intensity a given role requires. Keanu Reeves is a prime example of a (particularly bad) actor who gives huge intensity to cardboard cut out characters.

Secondly, if reports are to believed, Bale took the death of Heath Ledger (six months earlier) particularly hard, as the two of them had become quite close shooting The Dark Knight. Bale was reportedly very angry about his death because he felt the two of them could have become close friends. I'm willing to give the man some slack.

Lastly, context is everything. This guy who screwed up on set here wasn't the runner or a lighting trainee. It was the DP. Maybe this guy was pissing everyone off with his behaviour. Even a 1st AD would be quite hesitant about telling a DP what to do, and in this case the director has a work history with the DP so that's going to make it harder. Bale may very well have been the only person on set who could tell this guy to cut it out and get away with it. But he's got the entire resentment and annoyance of the whole crew behind him; he's a spokesman for the frustration of every department of people who has been working so hard.

Because that's what it feels like on a film set. Everyone works together towards this single goal of getting the perfect take, and when some retard screws it up the ENTIRE CREW feel like their hard work has been betrayed. Not just some individual actor. But the actors, right there in the middle of the set, are most exposed to everyone's resentment and frustration, and they feel it more than anyone.

Now, I'm sure some of you think I'm trying to argue that acting is some sort of magical special job that excuses behaving badly, but you've got it wrong, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm just trying to get people to appreciate that this sort of acting puts you in a unique situation. Not necessarily more difficult, not necessarily more "special" but it's unique. The dynamic of that context lends itself to opening up people to that sort of outburst.

3) The infraction that caused the rant, while maybe not perceived as serious to non film people, is VERY serious in the context of the film industry. I cannot stress enough how absolutely wrong it is to do what the DP did. Frankly the most astounding thing for me is that such a high level DP would do something that ridiculously unprofessional on such a high profile film set. I don't agree with Bale's methods for expressing himself, but I agree with his sentiment.

4) Last point, please pay attention. THIS SORT OF THING IS COMMON IN THE FILM INDUSTRY. Don't weep about the poor DPs hurt feelings. I am sure he's done similar things to lighting assistants under his direction before. DPs are the worst offenders as far as these off-the-handle rants go - British DPs are world famous for it to the point that the psychotic ranting British DP is practically an industry cliche. Maybe you think this sort of thing is unprofessional. Maybe you think it's totally unacceptable. Fine. Don't ever work in the film industry. (Likewise I'd recommend you never join the military, or work in Gordon Ramsay's kitchen). Most ironic of all is seeing people excuse James Cameron's behaviour because he makes good films. Talk about double standards.

I see nothing newsworthy here. The First Assistant Director said it wasn't an issue at all, that Bale was totally fine and professional the rest of the shoot, and that there were no issues with him and the DP. The 1st AD should know, because he's the one in charge of the set.

And before you ask why he didn't stop Bale's tirade, one of your crucial roles as an AD is to manage personalities, and this AD had worked with Bale before. I'm guessing he knew Bale would calm down and go back to his usual professional self as soon as the incident was over. In this situation you shut up, you take it, and you move on. The worst thing you can try and do is justify yourself or talk reason to the ranter, which it sounds like the DP did.

There is, of course, one other thing to consider. I have no idea what the context of the scene is, so this is purely speculation, but it's possible the rant was a performance for the benefit of his co-star. If he needed her to be afraid or shocked at him, doing something like this immediately before another take would be perfect. I only suggest this because Bale did his first major acting job with Steven Spielberg, and Spielberg is famous for crossing the line between the set and the scene in order to get real reactions from his actors.

It's a possibility. The message is - don't assume you know all of the context, because in the film industry, you most certainly don't. Hell, I wouldn't put it past the production team that the entire thing is a publicity stunt.

For anyone who is interesting in where I am coming from, I am an Assistant Director, so I work intimately with cast, and I run film sets. I've also been acting since I was a child. No, I've never had a rant like that. No, I don't think I ever would. People cope with the unique stress of a film set in different ways. But what I do know is while I've seen total asshats spew anger, I have also seen really decent, kind, professional people go off on rants just like the Christian Bale one. So I'm not willing to crucify the guy over a single audio clip. Sorry.

Yeah, pretty much this.

ETA: It's also worth mentioning that many method actors can't just slip in and out of character. It takes time to wind up and time to wind down. For some it takes hours for some days.

[jmcvann]

Really? That's all you got out of it? "Blow everything up"? That describes Terminator 3 pretty well; it was just blowing things up.

It didn't have half of the message of T2 or T1, though, or the Sarah Connor Chronicles, all of which involve quite a bit more than just "blowing everything up". But yeah, art is subjective. I'm pretty sure that it's objectively true that there was a philosophical backdrop, and real depth to the characters, of T1, T2, and TSSC. Now, you can say that you don't *like* that particular depth, or that the philosophy was "weak" (much like one could say of The Matrix Trilogy), but you can't deny that it's *there*.

Again, we all get to like what we like.

What an odd thing to say. This seems to imply that transplating Pauly Shore for Tom Hanks in Forrest Gump would make no difference at all.

Just because you inferred it does not mean I implied it. I would not argue there are skill levels in acting, but my comment compared acting to ditch digging. I stand by what I said.

Further, you seem to imply that Pauly Shore doesn't work hard. He may not be your taste (or mine) but developing a comic character like that takes effort and committment. And once created, it's much harder to find vehicles to put that character in front of the public. Great actors are pinned by stereotypes quite often. Fred Gwynne and Jason Alexander come to mind.

... jmcvann made an absurd claim that acting is "a piece of cake"...

...compared to ditch digging!

Keith Ledger enjoyed his role and wanted to continue it, that's why he took pills to push himself...

Wow! And you know the last part of this how? This comment will make all of your future comments much harder to consider.

Both jmcvann and dudalb were perferctly happy to use this incident as an excuse disparage "acting" in general...

Wait...what??? I an actor! I certainly would not disparage my craft. I know that it is easier than ditch digging!!

No one is saying acting is "harder" than another job. All that has been said is that filmmaking is a particularly stressful job, and that for an actor in particular it is very emotional.

I would argue that stage acting is much harder - emotionally - than film acting. On stage you have to get in character and stay there for 2, 3, 4 hours. No scene in film is more than a few minutes. It may be physically harder, but most films aren't even harder in that area.



On the point of money... one of the major stresses on a big film set is the knowledge that you're burning huge sums of money every time you delay.


I'm guessing most actors let the director and producer worry about the money.


There are particular circumstances that make this individual more prone to such an outburst. Firstly, he's a pretty intensive method actor.


Because he has chosen to be a method actor gains him no pity from me. If it works for him, fine, but it is not necessary. Anthony Hopkins is not a method actor. In my opinion, Hopkins is a much better actor than Bale. (Art is subjective.)

[Redtail]

Wait...what??? I an actor! I certainly would not disparage my craft. I know that it is easier than ditch digging!!


I'm an actor too and couldn't disagree more.

[Lonewulf]

Wow! And you know the last part of this how? This comment will make all of your future comments much harder to consider.I've heard this often enough to not care.

Can't take that I might actually be wrong on something, and don't have the courtesy to show me exactly where I went wrong?

Guess what? I don't care. I really don't. To me, you're just words on the screen. Words telling me that they'll ignore me, well, I say, just put me on your ignore list and save me the hassle of wasting time reading your post just to see it. I go with what I know on the situation, and from what I know, Keith Ledger was pushing himself for the role.

Forgive me if that doesn't stroke your ego the right way, and please, spare me.

I can make it easier on both of us and just throw you on my ignore list as well. That way, we don't ever have to bug each other again.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Method acting? He's in a Terminator movie, not in A Streetcar Named Desire.

Of course you shouldn't phone it in just because you happen to be doing a silly movie- the Batman franchise is pretty silly but he, the rest of the cast and the director elevated it and turned it into real art by taking it so seriously- but, still, it's a movie called Terminator Salvation. :confused:

[Redtail]

Method acting? He's in a Terminator movie, not in A Streetcar Named Desire.

Of course you shouldn't phone it in just because you happen to be doing a silly movie- the Batman franchise is pretty silly but he, the rest of the cast and the director elevated it and turned it into real art by taking it so seriously- but, still, it's a movie called Terminator Salvation. :confused:

I've worked with method actors on commercials. Once they get on the meth train there ain't no stops.:(

[dudalb]

My favorite bit on Method Actors is in "Shaun Of The Dead" where the one actress teaches Shaun and the other survivors how to act like Zombies using Method Acting tecniques. Classic.

[jmcvann]

I've heard this often enough to not care.

Can't take that I might actually be wrong on something, and don't have the courtesy to show me exactly where I went wrong?

I have no idea what you just said.

Guess what? I don't care. I really don't. To me, you're just words on the screen. Words telling me that they'll ignore me, well, I say, just put me on your ignore list and save me the hassle of wasting time reading your post just to see it.

I've never put anyone on ignore. People like you are far too entertaining to ignore.

I go with what I know on the situation, and from what I know, Keith Ledger was pushing himself for the role.


You go with what you think you know. That's the problem. And when you wrote "Keith" the first time I thought it was a simple lapse. The guy's name is Heath. That you don't even know his name casts more doubt on what you claim to know about his death.

Forgive me if that doesn't stroke your ego the right way, and please, spare me.

I can make it easier on both of us and just throw you on my ignore list as well. That way, we don't ever have to bug each other again.

Again, no. Watching the e-spittle fly in your posts is way too much fun.

[I Ratant]

It's a movie.
About Batman.
I can see how any one scene can be so wrought with tension..
C'mon!
It's a freakin' live-action cartoon!

[jmcvann]

It's a movie.
About Batman.
I can see how any one scene can be so wrought with tension..
C'mon!
It's a freakin' live-action cartoon!

I agree 100%. I also have no problem with people who think more of it. Art is subjective.

[gumboot]

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that assault was purely verbal, and "wife and mother" just equated to "mother".

It was his mother and sister actually, not his wife. And in the UK verbal assault is illegal. According to numerous sources the charge was one of verbal assault, not physical assault.

Given that neither the mother nor sister laid a complaint, nor were any charges laid, it's a total non-story.

Sounds to me like someone heard them arguing and called the police.

[gumboot]

I would argue that stage acting is much harder - emotionally - than film acting. On stage you have to get in character and stay there for 2, 3, 4 hours. No scene in film is more than a few minutes. It may be physically harder, but most films aren't even harder in that area.

I disagree completely. It's vastly easier to remain in character on stage than in a film. Aside from this, that's not all I am talking about. A lot of the factors that make screen acting so emotionally stressful simply don't exist on stage.

Screen acting is the equivalent in theatre of trying to give your absolute best performance during a technical. Most theatre actors agree that technical rehearsal are the most difficult, and most theatre actors don't even try give a performance during a technical rehearsal.



I'm guessing most actors let the director and producer worry about the money.

Did you read my post? The producer generally makes sure everyone on set is worried about the money. It comes with the territory.


Because he has chosen to be a method actor gains him no pity from me.

Who asked you to pity him? :confused:

[gumboot]

Method acting? He's in a Terminator movie, not in A Streetcar Named Desire.


Someone else who can't read a post. There's absolutely no correlation between the perceived dramatic quality of a film, and the amount of dramatic effort the actors put into their performance.

Like I said, Keanu Reeves is known for going loopy on set to maintain intense character focus.

Another example is Eddie Murphy; despite being a comedy actor the director of Shrek said Murphy's intensity and focus was so great that for weeks he actually thought the actor despised him.

Viggo Mortensen's method acting efforts to become Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings films are legendary.

Every decent actor puts as much effort as they can into every role they do, no matter how "undeserving" you might think that role is of such attention.

[gumboot]

It's a movie.
About Batman.
I can see how any one scene can be so wrought with tension..
C'mon!
It's a freakin' live-action cartoon!


Er... this happened on the set of the new Terminator film, not on Batman.

[gumboot]

I've worked with method actors on commercials. Once they get on the meth train there ain't no stops.:(


Exactly. Some people need to have a read of the vast elaborate back stories I've seen actors come up with for walk-on parts!

[Lonewulf]

I have no idea what you just said.Really? It was written in plain English. Perhaps if you bothered to learn it, you may be able to communicate with others. Here's a breakdown:

--I said something about Heath (:)) Ledger.

--You said I was wrong, and that you couldn't trust anything from me at all from that point onward.

--You did not provide me with any ACTUAL information of how Heath Ledger died. I.E., you did not correct the problem, you just pointed your finger and laughed, like a child, not an adult.

I certainly hope that was easy to understand. If not, I can make it even simpler:

"When you say someone's wrong, it's usually polite to say WHY they're wrong."

I hope that's better! I can't think of any other way of dumbing it down...

I've never put anyone on ignore. People like you are far too entertaining to ignore.



You go with what you think you know. That's the problem. And when you wrote "Keith" the first time I thought it was a simple lapse. The guy's name is Heath. That you don't even know his name casts more doubt on what you claim to know about his death.And yet, you provide nothing for me to go on, besides "you're wrong and everything you say from here on in must be wrong, too (presumably, regardless of subject)". You're right, it's Heath. For some reason, I keep hearing "Keith" when I think of his name.

Yes, I have a problem with names, and I got used to spelling it wrong. So horrible. It sure means I'm uneducated. :rolleyes:

Again, no. Watching the e-spittle fly in your posts is way too much fun.

I'm certainly glad you're entertained. If you had anything to correct me with on how he died, such as an article, or some bit of interesting information that, you know, educates people (the E in JREF, in case you missed it), you would have offered it by now, of course. It's obvious that you just need someone to artificially feel superior to.

As it is, I'll make the first move. As you're not interested in adult conversation, I'm not interested with any with you.

Welcome to the ignore list. Feel free to remain "entertained", however. I couldn't care less.

[Lonewulf]

It was his mother and sister actually, not his wife. And in the UK verbal assault is illegal. According to numerous sources the charge was one of verbal assault, not physical assault.

Given that neither the mother nor sister laid a complaint, nor were any charges laid, it's a total non-story.

Sounds to me like someone heard them arguing and called the police.

Well, okay.

Perhaps Bale isn't a bad person after all. Maybe he's a perfectly nice guy out in the real world with very few real negative quirks, and just an ******* at times in the acting studio. That's okay. I got no horse in this race. I admit I could be wrong. I certainly have been wrong many times before, when it comes to the acting studio; I admit I'm no expert when it comes to celebrities.

[Pardalis]

The director isn't the boss, by the way. In fact on a big Hollywood film the director's the most likely person to be fired.

The first AD is usually the one who gets fired first. :p

An actor told me earlier that Bale's tantrum could also be explained by him not being able to get in the mood of the scene, and by lashing out at the DP he got himself angry enough for the scene (sort of a way for him to get hyped up). Notice how he keeps saying they need to do another take right away, "Let's go again"?

[BenBurch]

If you think acting is easy or that it doesn't matter if the actor is distracted and the scene doesn't work when cut, I invite you to get your 8x10 color glossies put together and head out to Hollywood and audition. I know a thing or two about how hard it is to get though an audition, and how many people try their damnedest to get chosen even for small parts.

I also know a thing or two about how hard it is to put on a good performance when people are distracting you doing things they should not.

And finally, the only difference between what happened here and what happened a thousand times with a hundred actors you know and love is that somebody has the temerity to make this clip public. It wasn't right when they did it to Bill O'Reilly, when he was MUCH more abusive than this for much less of a issue on the set, and it wasn't right now.

[I Ratant]

Er... this happened on the set of the new Terminator film, not on Batman.
.
The difference would be? :)

[gumboot]

.
The difference would be? :)

Reality?

[gumboot]

An actor told me earlier that Bale's tantrum could also be explained by him not being able to get in the mood of the scene, and by lashing out at the DP he got himself angry enough for the scene (sort of a way for him to get hyped up). Notice how he keeps saying they need to do another take right away, "Let's go again"?


Yeah that was in line with my thinking, actually. I thought he might have been doing it for the sake of his co-star, but it may have been to get himself in character also.

What people need to understand about method acting is they believe you cannot fake an emotion. If, in the scene, you are supposed to be angry, that means you actually have to become angry. If you can't manifest that internally from your own life experiences, you'll need to manifest it right there and then on the set.

I did a job once with an actor who told the whole crew that he'd sometimes interact with us in character and that no one should be hurt by it because he didn't mean anything by it.

Initially that was really weird, but after a while we all really got into it, and would initiate stuff ourselves to help him out. In the end it actually acted as a fantastic bonding exercise that brought us all together - we all felt like we had a claim to this guy's performance.

[Tbone]

...compared to ditch digging!

So if I can dig a great ditch, I should be a shoe-in for an Oscar? All good actors of the world should be able to dig with the best of those other diggers? I really don't understand the point you're trying to make, other than the physical activity between digging and acting is different. Is physical activity the absolute only factor you see in how stressful and difficult a job is?

Of course, there's a counter-point to that as well. Christian Bale had to nearly go from the near-skeleton you see here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/BaleMachine.jpg) to the physical condition you see him in Batman Begins in the space of 6 months. That has to put a tremendous amount of stress on your lungs, heart, and body in general. I don't I could see your average ditch digger doing that.



...besides, most people dig ditches with backhoes and excavators around here :p

[Lonewulf]

So if I can dig a great ditch, I should be a shoe-in for an Oscar?

*headdesk*

Sigh. This thread is only going to get worse, isn't it?

To put it another way:

Not all jobs are equal.

Acting is hard, and can be hard, yes. But I don't think that it's uniquely difficult. But people want it to be treated uniquely, as there are many difficult professions that are very stressful and intensely hard on the mind and body that you just can't get away with yelling at length at people who are around. That was the point, at least, or the one I was pursuing. I don't think anyone was really suggesting that anyone can act, or that anyone can be a successful actor, or that acting can be accomplished overnight.

Perhaps the whole acting gig does require a different pair of gloves. I don't know.

[jmcvann]

If you think acting is easy ...


Two of my favorite quotes. Both by John Malkovich. I would consider him the best actor mentioned in this thread so far, except for, perhaps, Anthony Hopkins. The quotes:

"You can't work in the movies. Movies are all about lighting. Very few filmmakers will concentrate on the story. You get very little rehearsal time, so anything you do onscreen is a kind of speed painting."

"I've always felt that if you can't make money as an actor, you`re either incredibly stupid or tragically unlucky."

[jmcvann]

So if I can dig a great ditch, I should be a shoe-in for an Oscar? All good actors of the world should be able to dig with the best of those other diggers?

*sigh* [sarcasm on] yes. exactly what i said. all actors are equal.[sarcasm off] oh, and the best actor doesn't always win the oscar, either.

Christian Bale had to nearly go from the near-skeleton you see here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/BaleMachine.jpg) to the physical condition you see him in Batman Begins in the space of 6 months.

in his mansion. with his trainer. or after driving his beemer to the gym. or being driven while he checks his bank account. you've got me. much harder than the ditch digger.

[I Ratant]

Reality?
.
It's BATMAN! and TERMINATOR!
These are... sit down, take a deep breath, and contemplate.. FICTION!
Comic book FICTION!

[jmcvann]

You did not provide me with any ACTUAL information of how Heath Ledger died.

we know HOW he died. you made an assumption of WHY he died.

As you're not interested in adult conversation, I'm not interested with any with you.

Welcome to the ignore list.

wait...WHO is taking their ball and going home?

[Lonewulf]

...I'm sorry.

Can someone please remind me what we were even talking about?

[gumboot]

.
It's BATMAN! and TERMINATOR!
These are... sit down, take a deep breath, and contemplate.. FICTION!
Comic book FICTION!

That's nice. What exactly is your point?

[Number Six]

Geez, what an ass. I don't know what that guy is like in the rest of his life but there's no excuse for treating someone like that. Do you think there's ever been a scene where everything was set up perfectly and that guy flubbed a line and it had to be re-done? Of course there has although even if there hasn't that doesn't excuse treating someone that way.

If someone on that set had gone over to Bales and simply beat the hell out of him for talking like that then that person might have lost his job but he'd more than make up for it if it all became public, including the abuse Bales was dishing out. He'd become a folk hero.

And someone said it wasn't as bad as O'Reilly?...are you talking about that 90 clip where O'Reilly says "f*** it, we'll do it live?" If so there is no comparison between that and what Bales did. Go back and watch the O'Reilly clip again.

[Tbone]

in his mansion. with his trainer. or after driving his beemer to the gym. or being driven while he checks his bank account. you've got me. much harder than the ditch digger.

Yeah, this is just going to become a tennis match with strawman arguements, so I'm just going to end it (hurray for Internet arguements).

*headdesk*

Sigh. This thread is only going to get worse, isn't it?

Not neccessarily :)



To put it another way:

Not all jobs are equal.

Acting is hard, and can be hard, yes. But I don't think that it's uniquely difficult. But people want it to be treated uniquely, as there are many difficult professions that are very stressful and intensely hard on the mind and body that you just can't get away with yelling at length at people who are around. That was the point, at least, or the one I was pursuing. I don't think anyone was really suggesting that anyone can act, or that anyone can be a successful actor, or that acting can be accomplished overnight.

Perhaps the whole acting gig does require a different pair of gloves. I don't know.

So, basically, not something you would call "a piece of cake." Pretty much everyone alive and dead has, at some point in their lives, lost control over some relatively insignificant thing, something they should have just ignored and moved on. But I've flipped out at people and people have flipped out at me. Almost always apologies were presented, accepted, and things moved on. But occasionally not, and things suffered. So if this incident caused the movie to go under, or someone to get fired unjustly (as was threatened), but Bale was let off the hook because of his celebrity, that would be preferential treatment. Bale settling down afterwards (perhaps apologising, I won't speculate outside parenthesis) and getting back to work is not a unique treatment. For most of the planet, that's normal.




For the record, I have a huge heterosexual man-crush on Christian Bale, and not just he's the freakin' Batman :D

[Number Six]

Maybe I'm an exception but I can never in my life recall talking to someone like Bales talks to that guy and I'm certain that if I ever did then it was only for a few seconds. For someone to talk to someone else like that for four solid minutes is unusual.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Someone else who can't read a post. There's absolutely no correlation between the perceived dramatic quality of a film, and the amount of dramatic effort the actors put into their performance.

Like I said, Keanu Reeves is known for going loopy on set to maintain intense character focus.

Another example is Eddie Murphy; despite being a comedy actor the director of Shrek said Murphy's intensity and focus was so great that for weeks he actually thought the actor despised him.

Viggo Mortensen's method acting efforts to become Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings films are legendary.

Every decent actor puts as much effort as they can into every role they do, no matter how "undeserving" you might think that role is of such attention.

Obviously, it would be very disrespectful and inconsiderate to let other people working with you know that you are not taking the job very seriously but, well, it's a Terminator movie! How ridiculous it is to bring method acting to it?

Unless John Connor gets laid off work, abuses his wife, gets sent to prison, becomes an alcocholic or exposes a corrupt union, all that is really called for is to walk on set, read the lines and get off.

You'd think most sane people would consider it an opportunity for some light-hearted fun while marking time between real work. A chance to party and socialize alot, like the cast of Charlie's Angels reportedly did.

I think the difference between someone like Eddie Murphy and Keanu Reeves is that Reeves is being just silly and Murphy is doing real work. Comedy is even harder to do than drama- harder to write, harder to act- and does demand alot of discipline and effort to create. That's something you do need to stay up long hours writing on the computer for and hours going over with your writers and castmates. And something you need to spend alot of time working on alone, too.

[dtugg]

Obviously, it would be very disrespectful and inconsiderate to let other people working with you know that you are not taking the job very seriously but, well, it's a Terminator movie! How ridiculous it is to bring method acting to it?

Unless John Connor gets laid off work, abuses his wife, gets sent to prison, becomes an alcocholic or exposes a corrupt union, all that is really called for is to walk on set, read the lines and get off.

You'd think most sane people would consider it an opportunity for some light-hearted fun while marking time between real work. A chance to party and socialize alot, like the cast of Charlie's Angels reportedly did.

I think the difference between someone like Eddie Murphy and Keanu Reeves is that Reeves is being just silly and Murphy is doing real work. Comedy is even harder to do than drama- harder to write, harder to act- and does demand alot of discipline and effort to create. That's something you do need to stay up long hours writing on the computer for and hours going over with your writers and castmates. And something you need to spend alot of time working on alone, too.

Perhaps he is trying to get in character. Perhaps he is John Connor. Being John Connor would be more stressful than any character that I can imagine. So, what if the premise is ridiculous? That doesn't mean that the actor portraying him isn't attempting to become the character. Great actors do that and I think that Bale is a great actor.

Personally I don't give a damn that Bale chewed out this dumbass for a few minutes. I will still watch the movie and it will probably be well done. He might be a jerk with a bad temper, but so what. Nobody would even care if he wasn't Batman.

[tkingdoll]

*pokes nose into thread*

What's all this about? We're judging an audio clip out of context without any personal experience of any of the people involved?

I'm up for that! His rant was hilarious. Made me laugh for a few minutes. The guy got into Bale's eyeline during a take, he was a jerk. Bale yelled at him for longer than anyone could have thought possible, he was a jerk.

Everyone's a jerk! Yay! Who knew that long hours and emotional careers such as movies would result in spats?

What's next?

[gumboot]

Obviously, it would be very disrespectful and inconsiderate to let other people working with you know that you are not taking the job very seriously but, well, it's a Terminator movie! How ridiculous it is to bring method acting to it?

You don't seem to understand. Method actors always act that way. That's their way of acting. Like Redtail said, they'll use the method on a TV commercial.

You're also making the mistake of judging a film by it's predecessors. Neither I nor you have any idea what the dramatic context is of this new Terminator film.


Unless John Connor gets laid off work, abuses his wife, gets sent to prison, becomes an alcocholic or exposes a corrupt union, all that is really called for is to walk on set, read the lines and get off.

Great, so no one should ever dare attempt to improve a genre by injecting some quality drama into it? :rolleyes: Why try bother with any character development in Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line? Your average war film is just a hero firing from a hip against a backdrop of special effects.

Getting fired? Domestic violence? Alcoholism? Please. You know what's really emotionally intense and strenuous? Trying to save the entire human race from murderous robots. :rolleyes:


You'd think most sane people would consider it an opportunity for some light-hearted fun while marking time between real work. A chance to party and socialize alot, like the cast of Charlie's Angels reportedly did.

Wow. Just wow.

[Lonewulf]

Yeah, this is just going to become a tennis match with strawman arguements, so I'm just going to end it (hurray for Internet arguements).Tell me about it.

So, basically, not something you would call "a piece of cake."Really not. There's many jobs I wouldn't call "a piece of cake", though.

Pretty much everyone alive and dead has, at some point in their lives, lost control over some relatively insignificant thing, something they should have just ignored and moved on. But I've flipped out at people and people have flipped out at me. Almost always apologies were presented, accepted, and things moved on. But occasionally not, and things suffered. So if this incident caused the movie to go under, or someone to get fired unjustly (as was threatened), but Bale was let off the hook because of his celebrity, that would be preferential treatment. Bale settling down afterwards (perhaps apologising, I won't speculate outside parenthesis) and getting back to work is not a unique treatment. For most of the planet, that's normal.Good point. If the man WAS fired, that would be a big deal. If it all resolved itself and people apologized and went out for ice cream (okay, that part's optional), then no problem.


For the record, I have a huge heterosexual man-crush on Christian Bale, and not just he's the freakin' Batman :D

Eh. I found him more convincing as Bruce Wayne than as Batman. That's not necessarily a point in his direction. ;)

Either way, I'm neutral on Bale.

[tomwaits]

As a side note, there was a hilarious bit on Stephen Colbert the other day about this. He berated Steve Martin who kept walking on camera. "WE ARE DONE, PROFESSIONALLY!"

[Damien Evans]

I've heard this often enough to not care.

Can't take that I might actually be wrong on something, and don't have the courtesy to show me exactly where I went wrong?

Guess what? I don't care. I really don't. To me, you're just words on the screen. Words telling me that they'll ignore me, well, I say, just put me on your ignore list and save me the hassle of wasting time reading your post just to see it. I go with what I know on the situation, and from what I know, Keith Ledger was pushing himself for the role.

Forgive me if that doesn't stroke your ego the right way, and please, spare me.

I can make it easier on both of us and just throw you on my ignore list as well. That way, we don't ever have to bug each other again.

Who is this "Keith" Ledger?

[Lonewulf]

Who is this "Keith" Ledger?

I corrected myself already. Sheesh.

[Buckaroo]

Getting fired? Domestic violence? Alcoholism? Please. You know what's really emotionally intense and strenuous? Trying to save the entire human race from murderous robots.

I think this may become my new signature line. :D

[jmcvann]

Getting fired? Domestic violence? Alcoholism? Please. You know what's really emotionally intense and strenuous? Trying to save the entire human race from murderous robots. :rolleyes:


(Noting the smiley, this is more for others than you, gumboot)

It is much harder to act in a manner that will resonate with people (the audience) who have actually seen or gone through getting fired, domestic violence, etc., than it is to portray how someone would behave in a totally ridiculous situation. In the latter, you could do almost anything since people will have no frame of reference. But I guarantee you what we will get is lots of tense neck muscles, wide-open eyes and people shouting "Run! Run!" as they are the only "logical" choices.

I will say again, though, that movies appeal to wide ranges of audience. And that's a good thing. I don't want all movies to appeal to me. I have seen the previous Terminator movies, but only on TV as I would not pay to see those. I find them campy fun. Others find them to have a deeper message. No one is wrong. I think Picasso is over-rated and I cannot stand Phillip Glass. Other people find them brilliant. No one is wrong.

[dudalb]

As a side note, there was a hilarious bit on Stephen Colbert the other day about this. He berated Steve Martin who kept walking on camera. "WE ARE DONE, PROFESSIONALLY!"


I got a feeling that line has already entered into the language, and will haunt Bale for a long,long,time to come.
Bale is certainly taking a PR hit over this, and frankly, deserves to. I am not saying he is a total a--wipe,but some angry managements sessions would not hurt.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Great, so no one should ever dare attempt to improve a genre by injecting some quality drama into it? :rolleyes: Why try bother with any character development in Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line? Your average war film is just a hero firing from a hip against a backdrop of special effects.



Though they both have bullets and blood, there's a huge difference between Saving Private Ryan and a campy action franchise. One's a great movie, the other is something even alot of the people who love it admit is fun trash. Comparing the two is like comparing a Rambo movie to The Deer Hunter.

Christian Bale is a great actor but, by me, he needs to get a sense of humor and healthy sense of deattachment from his work. That's true for all professions- whatever you do for a living, you shouldn't take yourself too seriously.

Colin Farrell is a pretty good actor and he admits his action flicks were nonsense to "put @$$e$ in seats".

[dudalb]

Christian Bale is a great actor but, by me, he needs to get a sense of humor and healthy sense of deattachment from his work. That's true for all professions- whatever you do for a living, you shouldn't take yourself too seriously.

I think the key is take your work seriously, but not yourself.
I just cannot buy letting people off the hook for bad behavior because "they are passionate about their work". Controling your passions is what it is all about.

[LibraryLady]

My favorite send up of method acting:

BnHqiipcw6g

A tomato doesn't sit down!

[Gangularis]

LOL..

James Lipton does the Christian Bale rant..

http://www.hulu.com/watch/56219/late-night-with-conan-obrien-lipton-reenacts-bale

[tomwaits]

LOL..

James Lipton does the Christian Bale rant..

http://www.hulu.com/watch/56219/late-night-with-conan-obrien-lipton-reenacts-bale

oh, my...

that was great.

[Wowbagger]

I can tell most of you have never worked in filmmaking.

I have barely done much in the industry, myself. But, even I can attest to what gumboot is trying to say.

Does anyone have any idea how easily shots can be ruined by distractions like that? Well, obviously not that DP. But, still... it is rather frustrating.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

If I ever exploded at a co-worker in front of everybody in the office like that, I'd be in very, very serious trouble.

Working on a film might be different than working at an agency, yes, but it's got to be unprofessional behavior to swear out a fellow employee anywhere.

[Mashuna]

You'd think most sane people would consider it an opportunity for some light-hearted fun while marking time between real work. A chance to party and socialize alot, like the cast of Charlie's Angels reportedly did.


This must have been what made Charlie's Angels such a great film. Not quite as good as Charlie's Angels 2: Full Throttle, but still great.





:boxedin:

[alfaniner]

Nice to know that James Lipton has a sense of humor!

[Redtail]

If I ever exploded at a co-worker in front of everybody in the office like that, I'd be in very, very serious trouble.

Working on a film might be different than working at an agency, yes, but it's got to be unprofessional behavior to swear out a fellow employee anywhere.

Not in Construction.
Not in Kitchen.
Not in The Military.
Not in theatre/film.

And that just from my experience off the top of my head.

[Redtail]

Though they both have bullets and blood, there's a huge difference between Saving Private Ryan and a campy action franchise. One's a great movie, the other is something even alot of the people who love it admit is fun trash. Comparing the two is like comparing a Rambo movie to The Deer Hunter.

Christian Bale is a great actor but, by me, he needs to get a sense of humor and healthy sense of deattachment from his work. That's true for all professions- whatever you do for a living, you shouldn't take yourself too seriously.

Colin Farrell is a pretty good actor and he admits his action flicks were nonsense to "put @$$e$ in seats".

So all people should be the way you think they should be... gotcha.

[Gangularis]

I've worked in pizza shops, taxi jobs, CALL CENTERS - I guarantee there's nothing more stressful than working in a ****** cubicle call center environment.. especially customer support for internet service. Imagine how irritated you get when you lose internet connectivity. Imagine being on the receiving end of that anger, call, after call, after call, week after week after week..... And yet, you'd be out the door faster than you could say "this job sucks" if you acted out on your frustrations.

Bale needs to control his temper. Yes.. i understand it would be VERY frustrating to deal with that, when you're trying to focus But you don't go off on a tirade, and then justify it by saying it's frustrating. That's what little children get away with, not adults.
A lot of jobs require a great deal of focus, and can be very frustrating when someone or something ruins that focus.. but to go off like an atom bomb is a completely unprofessional way to deal with it.. further more, if you're making millions of dollars, and being made famous by those running the picture, I think it's petty to gripe in such a crude manor. Lodge a complaint, state your case, but don't go off on an condescending lunatic tirade that just makes you look like a jerk in front of everybody.. It's unprofessional, end of story.. There's no rationalizing it.

[Redtail]

I've worked in pizza shops, taxi jobs, CALL CENTERS - I guarantee there's nothing more stressful than working in a ****** cubicle call center environment.. especially customer support for internet service.

No, I've done that too, not even close. Also you are forgetting that Bale is a big money draw. If you got tipped 10 bucks for every "successful"* call, and then had to split it 50/50** with the company you worked for, AND THEN someone who should know better screwed you up, who would catch hell? You or him?

*Successful being mediocre.
** Actors rarely get 80/20.

[Number Six]

Not in Construction.
Not in Kitchen.
Not in The Military.
Not in theatre/film.

And that just from my experience off the top of my head.

They go off like that for four minutes straight? I would wager that the only time that ever happens for four minutes straight is when there is a severe imbalance in power between the abuse-r and the abuse-e, in which case the abuse-r knows s/he can treat the abuse-e that poorly and get away with it because of the power imbalance.

One instance might be the military where part of the deal going in is that someone of a higher rank is allowed to treat people of lower rank like garbage. Another might be some sports situation where the coach can treat the players like crap, although that stereotype might be enhanced by the Bobby Knights of the world. In some instances the player might be famous too but still the expectation often is that the coach is boss and can do whatever he likes. Another might be in films where the actors are famous and the crew is anonymous and replaceable. What's going to be bigger news, if famous actor Christian Bale is replaced on a movie or if the key grip is replaced?

That kind of abuse would never happen in a relationship where there was any semblance of a power balance. If there was a power balance then after awhile the abuse-e would have had enough and either walk away or else stand up to the abuse-r. But the abuse-e in that audio clip probably had no other choice than to take the abuse unless he wanted to lose his job, and losing your job has much more severe consequence, financially speaking, when you're a film crew member than when you're the star of a film.

It reminds me of audio I've heard of domestic abuse relationships, where the guy just rains down insults on the woman and the woman just basically alternately apologizes or says nothing or tries to mollify the guy and yet the abuse just goes on and on and on. She's completely powerless. She's just waiting and hoping it ends. And the guy taking the abuse in that audio seemed completely powerless too. All he could do was apologize and wait and hope that Bale's anger passed. It was truly an ugly thing to hear.

[Gangularis]

No, I've done that too, not even close. Also you are forgetting that Bale is a big money draw. If you got tipped 10 bucks for every "successful"* call, and then had to split it 50/50** with the company you worked for, AND THEN someone who should know better screwed you up, who would catch hell? You or him?

*Successful being mediocre.
** Actors rarely get 80/20.

You've done phone based tech support that's solely for home users having internet connectivity issues??
Even if that's so, how does that justify anything you're saying?
It doesn't.
One session being screwed up does not mean the movie got screwed up..
That's like saying one screwed up service call caused the entire company to go under.. and you got the blame for it.

You're trying to rationalize childish behavior. Bale is making buttloads of money.. all he has to do is ACT in front of a camera.. There's so much more work that goes into these films.. especially those that are filled with special effects. Who do you think makes more money? The guy creating all of the CGI of a film, or the actor that reads lines off of a script? Who do you think works the longest hours, of the two? Your contrarian justification for his behavior is pure rationalization. He has every right to get upset, and lodge a complaint, or even bitch about it - in private - with his personal hairdresser. What you don't do, as a professional, is blow your top in front of everybody.. That's simply NOT what a professional, no matter the line of work, does..

[Redtail]

They go off like that for four minutes straight? I would wager that the only time that ever happens for four minutes straight is when there is a severe imbalance in power between the abuse-r and the abuse-e, in which case the abuse-r knows s/he can treat the abuse-e that poorly and get away with it because of the power imbalance.

Yes, and more. Not every time mind you, but often enough.

One instance might be the military where part of the deal going in is that someone of a higher rank is allowed to treat people of lower rank like garbage. Another might be some sports situation where the coach can treat the players like crap, although that stereotype might be enhanced by the Bobby Knights of the world. In some instances the player might be famous too but still the expectation often is that the coach is boss and can do whatever he likes. Another might be in films where the actors are famous and the crew is anonymous and replaceable. What's going to be bigger news, if famous actor Christian Bale is replaced on a movie or if the key grip is replaced?Yeah, that's the point. Other than friends or family who would care if the key grip gets replaced?

That kind of abuse would never happen in a relationship where there was any semblance of a power balance. If there was a power balance then after awhile the abuse-e would have had enough and either walk away or else stand up to the abuse-r.Agreed. Then again who said there was a sembalnce of power?

But the abuse-e in that audio clip probably had no other choice than to take the abuse unless he wanted to lose his job, and losing your job has much more severe consequence, financially speaking, when you're a film crew member than when you're the star of a film.Kinda... I worked grounds at a ren faire last summer. My boss was a *****. When she found out last week that I have an MFA in Acting and I was only there because my fiancee was living in a big city(Chicago) for the first time and wanted me there, bosslady begged me to come back this year. I won't unless she pays through the nose. I may have other options, she may too. If she does and I don't, I'll either deal with it and hope it won't hurt me or cave and take the job. If she doesn't and I do, she'll do the same. It's how the bussiness works.

It reminds me of audio I've heard of domestic abuse relationships, where the guy just rains down insults on the woman and the woman just basically alternately apologizes or says nothing or tries to mollify the guy and yet the abuse just goes on and on and on. She's completely powerless. She's just waiting and hoping it ends.It reminds me of Undergrad and Grad and many other jobs.

And the guy taking the abuse in that audio seemed completely powerless too. All he could do was apologize and wait and hope that Bale's anger passed. It was truly an ugly thing to hear.Yeah it was very ugly. So was what they guy did. I don't think it was worth what Bale gave him but that's what he got. Having said that, my head prof in grad is hated by many who know him. I've gotten work because I put up with him. (I've been yelled at by RIs and it was far worse and far longer, the biggest chore at the time was not to seem bored or find him funny). Others who yelled back out kicked out, but, got work because of it... Theatre/ Film is filled with egos, if one can't handle it one should leave.

[Redtail]

You've done phone based tech support that's solely for home users having internet connectivity issues??
Even if that's so, how does that justify anything you're saying?
It doesn't.

No I haven't. Have you acted on camera before?


One session being screwed up does not mean the movie got screwed up..
That's like saying one screwed up service call caused the entire company to go under.. and you got the blame for it.
No, it's like you saying you were on the phone and were fiddling with a $20,000 piece of equipment (for no reason other than you just liked to do it) and then totaled it... and your boss said "meh".


You're trying to rationalize childish behavior. Bale is making buttloads of money.. all he has to do is ACT in front of a camera.. If that's all he has to do then why aren't you doing it? (It's FAR harder than you think.)

There's so much more work that goes into these films.. especially those that are filled with special effects.I do this for a living so I know this. I have to wonder though, is if the story was that Bale was horsing around on set, between takes and wrecked lights, and Hurlbut went off on him, would you be so hard on him?
Who do you think makes more money? The guy creating all of the CGI of a film, or the actor that reads lines off of a script?What does CGI have to do with this? Ah well, The actor does. (Granted this shows your utter ignorance of acting and how hard an actor works... But then all you did was pick up a phone...:rolleyes:)


Who do you think works the longest hours, of the two?It depends but the actor is likely. (In undergrad and grad I was at school at 8am and left at 6pm... unless I was in a show then I left at 10:30pm-11:00pm... Except for tech week then it was 12:00am-1:00am.)

Your contrarian justification for his behavior is pure rationalization.And your justification is...?

He has every right to get upset, and lodge a complaint, or even bitch about it - in private - with his personal hairdresser. Says who?

What you don't do, as a professional, is blow your top in front of everybody.. That's simply NOT what a professional, no matter the line of work, does..http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/12044467af2cd27d18.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=6485)

Call me after a couple of wet techs.

[gumboot]

I've worked in pizza shops, taxi jobs, CALL CENTERS - I guarantee there's nothing more stressful than working in a ****** cubicle call center environment.. especially customer support for internet service.


*sigh*

Once more with feeling; the unique issue with acting is not that it is particularly stressful, but that it is particularly emotional.

Follow along closely. It is an actor's job to be emotional. It is an actor's job to be angry. These are not side effects, or signs of a poor actor. They are a requirement.

Was it your job, at the call centre, to be angry? No. Did your career future rely on you being really incredibly angry? No. So why do you think there's any relevance comparing that job to acting?

Some of you keep making remarks along the lines of "If I got angry like that at my job I'd be fired".

Is it a job requirement for any of your jobs that you are highly emotional and often angry?

No it isn't.

In fact, for anyone working in customer service, it's a requirement of the job that you don't get angry or emotional.

[zooterkin]

They were covering the story this morning on the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7874161.stm), or, rather, were about to. They gave a warning that people might want to block their ears and started to play the tape. When it was apparent that the tape had not been bleeped, they stopped it suddenly, apologised and went on to another story without explaining what the incident actually was.

Oops.

[ArmillarySphere]

zooterkin: *laugh*

As far as I can tell from the transcript, what pissed Bale off was how the DR kept justifying himself. The rule of any human interaction is that if you screw up, fess up. Nothing less will satisfy, or there's no guarantee you won't do the same thing next time.

[gumboot]

One session being screwed up does not mean the movie got screwed up..
That's like saying one screwed up service call caused the entire company to go under.. and you got the blame for it.

I'm not sure anyone thinks Bale was justified in screaming at the guy for nearly 4 minutes. What people like me have been saying is that the incident was nothing of significance, in the context of a film set.


You're trying to rationalize childish behavior. Bale is making buttloads of money.. all he has to do is ACT in front of a camera..

Um no.


Who do you think makes more money? The guy creating all of the CGI of a film, or the actor that reads lines off of a script?

Um, you really don't know what you're talking about. The main reason big-name actors get paid so much money is because of the advertising value their name brings. A huge part of their job is promoting the film, which usually involves months of work, traveling around the world, doing hundreds and hundreds of interviews, and trying to ensure you don't make a single wrong step and give the film bad publicity.


Who do you think works the longest hours, of the two?

Out of an actor or a graphic artist? An actor. Easily. And while the actor's away from their family for six months filming, then away for another six months while they promote the film, the graphic artist gets to leave work at the end of every day and go home to see his family. If he's feeling sick he can probably call in and have the day off. The actor just has to suck it up and do their job regardless of how they feel.

A standard shoot day on a film set is 12 hours, and 14 - 16 hours would be fairly typical (I've done plenty of 18+ hour days). If actors require a lot of make up or prosthetic work it will be even longer (it took 8 hours to do John Rhys Davies' makeup for the Lord of the Rings films). My friend is an artist for Weta Digital, and he works pretty long hours, but that's mainly because his girlfriend is living in London at the moment, so he's just working as much as he can. Most of his work mates work a fairly regular 9 - 6 kind of day, unless there's some special meeting or something in the evening.

[gumboot]

That kind of abuse would never happen in a relationship where there was any semblance of a power balance.

Film crews are very hierarchical.


But the abuse-e in that audio clip probably had no other choice than to take the abuse unless he wanted to lose his job, and losing your job has much more severe consequence, financially speaking, when you're a film crew member than when you're the star of a film.

Actually I disagree with that. If Bale managed to get the DP fired (unlikely), it's probably not going to harm the DPs career much at all. He'll be off that job, but the director will use him on his next job, and other directors will use the guy still. If he's a top level DP (and this guy is) he probably has his next couple of jobs lined up already.

In contrast if an actor behaved badly enough that they actually got booted off a set they'd probably have real trouble working again. Remember the major contribution a big-name actor makes to a film is advertising. Before his weirdo religion thing, Mel Gibson was considered a guaranteed 100 million at the box office.

But the industry is fickle, and an actor can literally go from super hot to used goods in the space of a couple of news articles. An actor with lost credibility who misbehaves on set is a liability, and people will dump him in favour of the next hottest star.

[ZirconBlue]

They go off like that for four minutes straight? I would wager that the only time that ever happens for four minutes straight is when there is a severe imbalance in power between the abuse-r and the abuse-e, in which case the abuse-r knows s/he can treat the abuse-e that poorly and get away with it because of the power imbalance.



Like in most corporate environments? I might get in trouble if I acted this way in my office, but I'm sure those further up on the org chart wouldn't get more than a talking to from HR.

People keep talking about how famous people "get away" with this sort of thing, but they don't, really. Oh, they're not likely to get fired in the middle of a film, for obvious reasons, but, unlike the rest of us, their mistakes are recorded and distributed around the internet. And if an actor gets a reputation for being "difficult", they can have a very hard time getting future work.

[Number Six]

Yeah it was very ugly. So was what they guy did. I don't think it was worth what Bale gave him but that's what he got. Having said that, my head prof in grad is hated by many who know him. I've gotten work because I put up with him. (I've been yelled at by RIs and it was far worse and far longer, the biggest chore at the time was not to seem bored or find him funny). Others who yelled back out kicked out, but, got work because of it... Theatre/ Film is filled with egos, if one can't handle it one should leave.

It sounds to me like you're trying to equate what the guy did with what Bale did. There is no comparison. The guy made a mistake, as people do from time to time, _including_ Bale. Is Bale berated like that when he makes a mistake? No, and if someone tried to he wouldn't stand up for it. But he inflicts it on others because he can and he knows nobody will stop him. He's a bully.

[Number Six]

Actually I disagree with that. If Bale managed to get the DP fired (unlikely), it's probably not going to harm the DPs career much at all. He'll be off that job, but the director will use him on his next job, and other directors will use the guy still. If he's a top level DP (and this guy is) he probably has his next couple of jobs lined up already.


I was thinking in terms of, if a major star loses $20 M movie role he's still independently wealthy whereas if a regular guy it out of work for a month then it's a big deal because regular guys live much closer to the edge then do wealthy people. But if you factorr in the idea that wealthy people live a more lavish lifestyle and therefore they need a lot more money then I could see how losing a $20 M would be a big deal.

[ravdin]

If anyone still cares, Bale has taken full responsibility for his tantrum:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20090206/en_movies_eo/98799

So it looks like everything will be all right. The cameraman has his job and lots of public sympathy, Bale has grown up a little, and the rest of us have had a few good laughs at a famous person's expense.

[dudalb]

So because they have a job the requires them to be emotional actors have a right to behave any way they damn well please?
Sorry, I am STILL not buying it. There is such a thing as rules of halfway decent behavior, and I have not been shown that ANYBODY has a right to be exempt.
No one is arguing that the DP was not out of line and Bale had a right to get upset. It is how overboard Bale was that is causing the critiscism.
Frankly, this is just the "Talented Sensative Artist are above the rules" crapola all over again.

[dudalb]

If anyone still cares, Bale has taken full responsibility for his tantrum:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20090206/en_movies_eo/98799

So it looks like everything will be all right. The cameraman has his job and lots of public sympathy, Bale has grown up a little, and the rest of us have had a few good laughs at a famous person's expense.


Case closed, except for what SNL will do with this.
I hope Bale has learned from this, and he might get a little professional help with his anger. If not, it might really get him into trouble.
Look, I have been around actors enough to know that it is an emotional job. But, dammit, you have to learn to control it, you have to learn to be able to turn it off, although maybe not instantly.

[Number Six]

If anyone still cares, Bale has taken full responsibility for his tantrum:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eonline/20090206/en_movies_eo/98799

So it looks like everything will be all right. The cameraman has his job and lots of public sympathy, Bale has grown up a little, and the rest of us have had a few good laughs at a famous person's expense.

Wait a second, that's a great apology and I credit him for it, but to say that we've "have had a few laughs at a famous person's expense" implies we're going out of our way to pick on a famous person. The only reason any of us even know who Christian Bale is is that he has aggressively pursued fame and our attention. At any time he chooses he can drop out of the fame game and then people will quickly stop caring about anything he does. I'd feel bad for him if he were an anonymous person unwittingly thrust into the national limelight, but that's not the case.

[ravdin]

I don't think that Bale, or anyone else, is so talented that he's above the rules of normal civilized behavior. If you don't buy Bale's mea culpa, that's up to you. But I don't know what else he could say.

I'll at least buy that Bale doesn't want to be similarly embarrassed in the future, so he might think first before he blows his top on another set.

[jmcvann]

Follow along closely.

Condescend much?


It is an actor's job to be emotional. It is an actor's job to be angry. These are not side effects, or signs of a poor actor. They are a requirement.


No. It's an actor's job to ACT like he's angry. To behave AS IF he is angry. There's a big difference. "Method" acting does not require you to literally become your character, but to find ways to identify with your character so you can behave appropriately. And even "appropriately" has many definitions here. It is my opinion that those actors who have to "stay in character" off-stage haven't done their homework.

[Lonewulf]

He may have acted childishly in anger, but his apology seemed very mature.

[Gangularis]

No I haven't. Have you acted on camera before?

Yes. I've also acted on stage, which just about every actor will tell you is the more challenging of the two.

If that's all he has to do then why aren't you doing it? (It's FAR harder than you think.)

Thanks for telling me what I think.

I do this for a living so I know this. I have to wonder though, is if the story was that Bale was horsing around on set, between takes and wrecked lights, and Hurlbut went off on him, would you be so hard on him?
What does CGI have to do with this? Ah well, The actor does. (Granted this shows your utter ignorance of acting and how hard an actor works... But then all you did was pick up a phone...:rolleyes:)

All I did was pick up a phone? And you're calling me the ignorant one. Get a clue.



*sigh*

"And cut!!" Nice job gumboot. Just the exasperation we were looking for. You got the part!



Once more with feeling; the unique issue with acting is not that it is particularly stressful, but that it is particularly emotional.

Yeah.. because stress doesn't have anything to do with emotions.. :rolleyes:

Follow along closely.

How close? I don't want to get too close, and distract you during the scene.

It is an actor's job to be emotional. It is an actor's job to be angry. These are not side effects, or signs of a poor actor. They are a requirement.

It's also an actor's job to know how to control these emotions. It's also an actor's job to be a professional.

Was it your job, at the call centre, to be angry? No. Did your career future rely on you being really incredibly angry? No. So why do you think there's any relevance comparing that job to acting?

Does his job rely on him to be angry, or to *act* like he's being angry? Method acting or not, that doesn't give a person free reign to act as they will.

Some of you keep making remarks along the lines of "If I got angry like that at my job I'd be fired".

Is it a job requirement for any of your jobs that you are highly emotional and often angry?

No it isn't.

Absolutely silly justification for arcane behavior. Bale has a rough, hot headed, temperament. It has nothing to do with his job. It's HIS personality flaw. You don't go around hearing about all of these other actors that blow up on set, unless they're already the rough around the edges tough guy types like Colin Farrel or Russell Crowe. They are hot heads.. Not actors that simply get too into the part..

In fact, for anyone working in customer service, it's a requirement of the job that you don't get angry or emotional.

Yeah.. does that mean it's a requirement that you get angry and emotional with the people you work with on a set, if they're not part of a scene?

I'm not sure anyone thinks Bale was justified in screaming at the guy for nearly 4 minutes. What people like me have been saying is that the incident was nothing of significance, in the context of a film set.

Right.. just happens every day, right? Is to be expected, right?




Um no.

Um yes.




Um, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Um, yes I do.

The main reason big-name actors get paid so much money is because of the advertising value their name brings.

Ya don't SAY?!! NO WAY!! You know so much about Hollywood!! Can I have your autograph?

A huge part of their job is promoting the film, which usually involves months of work, traveling around the world, doing hundreds and hundreds of interviews, and trying to ensure you don't make a single wrong step and give the film bad publicity.

Hundreds and hundreds? Just like Harrison Ford that virtually never goes around promoting his movies..




Out of an actor or a graphic artist? An actor. Easily. And while the actor's away from their family for six months filming, then away for another six months while they promote the film, the graphic artist gets to leave work at the end of every day and go home to see his family. If he's feeling sick he can probably call in and have the day off. The actor just has to suck it up and do their job regardless of how they feel.

Oooh so compromising!! Because actors never bring their families along...

A standard shoot day on a film set is 12 hours, and 14 - 16 hours would be fairly typical (I've done plenty of 18+ hour days). If actors require a lot of make up or prosthetic work it will be even longer (it took 8 hours to do John Rhys Davies' makeup for the Lord of the Rings films). My friend is an artist for Weta Digital, and he works pretty long hours, but that's mainly because his girlfriend is living in London at the moment, so he's just working as much as he can. Most of his work mates work a fairly regular 9 - 6 kind of day, unless there's some special meeting or something in the evening.

You're talking about a typical shoot day.. out of how many days of actual shooting?

[gumboot]

So because they have a job the requires them to be emotional actors have a right to behave any way they damn well please?

No one has claimed this.

[gumboot]

No. It's an actor's job to ACT like he's angry. To behave AS IF he is angry. There's a big difference. "Method" acting does not require you to literally become your character, but to find ways to identify with your character so you can behave appropriately. And even "appropriately" has many definitions here. It is my opinion that those actors who have to "stay in character" off-stage haven't done their homework.

Method acting requires the actor to actually feel the emotions they are meant to be expressing, as opposed to presentational methods where the actor simply mimics the external manifestations of the emotion. Some actors can just turn it off and on at will, but some can't.

[gumboot]

Yes. I've also acted on stage, which just about every actor will tell you is the more challenging of the two.

This one won't. Screen acting is much, much more difficult than stage acting.


All I did was pick up a phone? And you're calling me the ignorant one. Get a clue.

Er... talk about missing the point...



Yeah.. because stress doesn't have anything to do with emotions.. :rolleyes:

Still missing the point, I see?


How close? I don't want to get too close, and distract you during the scene.

How old are you?


It's also an actor's job to know how to control these emotions. It's also an actor's job to be a professional.

Sometimes part of the job is to lose control. I've cited numerous examples they are positively regarded as "good" examples of acting. Was Juliette Lewis unprofessional when she actually physically assaulted someone on the set? Was Martin Sheen behaving unprofessionally when he smashed a prop on set?


Does his job rely on him to be angry, or to *act* like he's being angry? Method acting or not, that doesn't give a person free reign to act as they will.

No one has suggested that it does give them free reign. And if he's a method actor, his job relies on him actually getting angry.


Absolutely silly justification for arcane behavior. Bale has a rough, hot headed, temperament. It has nothing to do with his job. It's HIS personality flaw.

And here's my issue with this entire thing. I've not once tried to justify or excuse his behaviour. What I have argued about is the above - that this incident necessarily means anything negative about Bale's character - is false. You simply cannot make that judgment based on listening to a single audio clip.


You don't go around hearing about all of these other actors that blow up on set, unless they're already the rough around the edges tough guy types like Colin Farrel or Russell Crowe. They are hot heads.. Not actors that simply get too into the part..

You don't hear about it, but it's happening. And not just the actors. Crew as well. I'm telling you, this stuff is common on film sets. Did you hear about Josh Harnett doing it on the set of Thirty Days Of Night? Because he did. And he's a nice guy. People like Russell Crowe don't make the news for yelling at someone on the set - they make the news for assaulting photographers and other random people in the general public, off the film set.


Yeah.. does that mean it's a requirement that you get angry and emotional with the people you work with on a set, if they're not part of a scene?

No, that's not a requirement, but a lot of method actors do that because it makes it easier for them to maintain the emotions. And the nature of the job is such as a lot of the crew are often emotional with the people they work with.


Right.. just happens every day, right? Is to be expected, right?

Pretty much, yeah. I mean, I'd put this sort of rant nearer the more extreme end, but I've seen worse.


Um yes.

Like I said; no. Actors like Bale have to promote their film as well. It's a big part of the job.


Ya don't SAY?!! NO WAY!! You know so much about Hollywood!! Can I have your autograph?

Juvenile sarcastic mockery aside, just a moment earlier you categorically claimed that all an actor does is act in front of a camera, and when I pointed out you were wrong you claimed you were right and said you know what you're talking about. But here you're trying to suggest I'm somehow stupid for pointing out something so obvious as the fact that actor's don't just act.


Hundreds and hundreds? Just like Harrison Ford that virtually never goes around promoting his movies..

Yeah and Harrison Ford couldn't sustain his star power because most of his films don't do very well. Most likely because he's unusually private. The promotion tours are written into actors' contracts.


Oooh so compromising!! Because actors never bring their families along...

They sometimes get visits, if they're lucky.


You're talking about a typical shoot day.. out of how many days of actual shooting?

Well, six days a week for six months. Do the maths. If you're lucky it will be only a five day week.

[jmcvann]

Method acting requires the actor to actually feel the emotions they are meant to be expressing, as opposed to presentational methods where the actor simply mimics the external manifestations of the emotion. Some actors can just turn it off and on at will, but some can't.

First, there are different "method" techniques. Stanislavski. Strasberg. Meisner. Adler. And as I've said before, many great actors aren't "method" at all, and that doesn't automatically make them "presentational." Some actors just act without a bunch of ******** terminology.

This one won't. Screen acting is much, much more difficult than stage acting.

There is no correct answer here. What's easier for one person is not easier for all people.

Sometimes part of the job is to lose control.

I sure don't want to be in a stage combat scene with you - a great example, by the way of a scene that would need extensive emotional commitment - if you believe this to be acceptable.

Was Juliette Lewis unprofessional when she actually physically assaulted someone on the set? Was Martin Sheen behaving unprofessionally when he smashed a prop on set?

Yes, and yes.

No one has suggested that it does give them free reign. And if he's a method actor, his job relies on him actually getting angry.

No, it does not. He may believe that's the only way he can do it. But that's a different issue.

Did you hear about Josh Harnett doing it on the set of Thirty Days Of Night? Because he did. And he's a nice guy.

Do you know Hartnett personally? How do you know he's a nice guy? Personal experience? Or media representation?

No, that's not a requirement, but a lot of method actors do that because it makes it easier for them to maintain the emotions.

Ahhh...We finally agree. It is easier. Not more professional, but easier. More preparation and more skill would get the same result. But it's easier to be lazy and act like a jackass.

[Gangularis]

This one won't. Screen acting is much, much more difficult than stage acting.

Yeah.. because there are so many more distractions during screen acting?? Stage actors only have to deal with frivolities like performing LIVE in front of hundreds of people, under really hot lamps, in god knows what out fits, where any number of things can go wrong.. yeah.. they got it cozy.



Er... talk about missing the point...

There was no point worth addressing.




Still missing the point, I see?

To answer your question. No, I was not missing the point.




How old are you?

30 - A/S/L??




Sometimes part of the job is to lose control. I've cited numerous examples they are positively regarded as "good" examples of acting. Was Juliette Lewis unprofessional when she actually physically assaulted someone on the set? Was Martin Sheen behaving unprofessionally when he smashed a prop on set?

It sounds like it. I really haven't heard much about those events.






No one has suggested that it does give them free reign. And if he's a method actor, his job relies on him actually getting angry.

Again, it requires him to control his emotions, and *act*. It's not about just getting blindly enraged..




And here's my issue with this entire thing. I've not once tried to justify or excuse his behaviour. What I have argued about is the above - that this incident necessarily means anything negative about Bale's character - is false. You simply cannot make that judgment based on listening to a single audio clip.

I think it's obvious, based on what we know of him, that he has, to some degree, a hot headed personality.




You don't hear about it, but it's happening. And not just the actors. Crew as well. I'm telling you, this stuff is common on film sets. Did you hear about Josh Harnett doing it on the set of Thirty Days Of Night? Because he did. And he's a nice guy. People like Russell Crowe don't make the news for yelling at someone on the set - they make the news for assaulting photographers and other random people in the general public, off the film set.

Everyone on the set experiences stress. The only people that get away with acting like jagoffs are the *stars*, and sometimes the director.




Juvenile sarcastic mockery aside

Maybe if you didn't sarcastically condescend to me, you wouldn't get the responses I gave you. In fact, I can promise you that you wouldn't have.



Well, six days a week for six months. Do the maths. If you're lucky it will be only a five day week.

So you're trying to tell me that they work 10-16 hour shifts, six days a week, for six months a year????

:dl:

[Delvo]

I can't believe people are still making a big deal out of how long this lasted. He didn't monolog that whole time himself. Someone else kept responding in some way(s) that annoyed him more and then he responded to their responses. He was finished several times, and then in each case it got extended again by the other party (and then by him, and then by the other...). This is not long at all, as back-and-forth exchanges go. You just can't hear the other person very well because it's Bale's microphone.

[dudalb]

Was Juliette Lewis unprofessional when she actually physically assaulted someone on the set? Was Martin Sheen behaving unprofessionally when he smashed a prop on set?

Yes, and Lewis should have been held accountable.
Gumboot, you might not mean it, but you really are coming off like you basically want actors to have immunity from consequences for their actions as long as they are done
"in character" and "on set".

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I can't believe people are still making a big deal out of how long this lasted. He didn't monolog that whole time himself. Someone else kept responding in some way(s) that annoyed him more and then he responded to their responses. He was finished several times, and then in each case it got extended again by the other party (and then by him, and then by the other...). This is not long at all, as back-and-forth exchanges go. You just can't hear the other person very well because it's Bale's microphone.

The man on the other end of the rant was clearly just trying to apologize and make it go away.

If he had treated Bale the way Bale treated him and had defended himself with the same force and it was two people screaming at each other on an audio tape, it might not have been so ugly. Not that you don't have a total right to respond and defend yourself when someone screams at you.

Instead, you get someone brow-beating an underling. He actually gets angrier when the guy tries to apologize!

[Gangularis]

rofl!! "brow-beating an underling"!

what a great phrase.

[I Ratant]

I can see and probably have, actors of stature getting upset when disturbed while working, but c'mon, Bale ain't one of them, and it's freakin' "Terminator", most likely going directly to DVD anyway.
Infinitely ignorable and forgettable!

[Gangularis]

I can see and probably have, actors of stature getting upset when disturbed while working, but c'mon, Bale ain't one of them, and it's freakin' "Terminator", most likely going directly to DVD anyway.
Infinitely ignorable and forgettable!

:jaw-dropp

[Gangularis]

It wasn't right when they did it to Bill O'Reilly, when he was MUCH more abusive than this for much less of a issue on the set, and it wasn't right now.

You call yourself the gatekeeper of the left?? :eye-poppi For shame!!

[Tbone]

Yeah.. because there are so many more distractions during screen acting?? Stage actors only have to deal with frivolities like performing LIVE in front of hundreds of people, under really hot lamps, in god knows what out fits, where any number of things can go wrong.. yeah.. they got it cozy.

So, summing up your view of stage vs screen acting:

Stage acting: In front of hundreds of people.
Screen acting: No one around but the actors and cameras.

Stage acting: Work under hot lamps.
Screen acting: Always work under normal lighting.

Stage acting: Could be wearing uncomfortable clothing and the like.
Screen acting: Always wear comfortable clothing.

Stage acting: Things could go wrong.
Screen acting: Things could go wrong, but they can edit it out later. (http://www.moviemistakes.com/)


Also, who said stage actors have it "cozy?"

[gumboot]

First, there are different "method" techniques. Stanislavski. Strasberg. Meisner. Adler. And as I've said before, many great actors aren't "method" at all, and that doesn't automatically make them "presentational." Some actors just act without a bunch of ******** terminology.

These different acting techniques describe different ways actors approach their performance. Some actors quite consciously select a particular method - especially those that have been formally taught. Those like me who simply learned by "treading the boards" don't follow any sort of set routine or "technique" but we still generally use one of two approaches. (I am more of a method actor myself).

I agree with your sentiment though; some actors focus too much on the BS terminology and their technique and what ever. RULE10 that. I just get out there and frikken act.


I sure don't want to be in a stage combat scene with you - a great example, by the way of a scene that would need extensive emotional commitment - if you believe this to be acceptable.

Er... I said "sometimes". Not always. Stage combat is a very bad time to lose control. And I am very good at stage combat, so have no fear. :) I can even make you your blade if you wish. :)


Do you know Hartnett personally? How do you know he's a nice guy? Personal experience? Or media representation?

Personal experience.


Ahhh...We finally agree. It is easier. Not more professional, but easier. More preparation and more skill would get the same result. But it's easier to be lazy and act like a jackass.

Yeah that's exactly what I said. :rolleyes:

[gumboot]

Yeah.. because there are so many more distractions during screen acting??

Of course.


Stage actors only have to deal with frivolities like performing LIVE in front of hundreds of people

Which, unless you have stage fright, is a non issue. Once you get into an auditorium seating about 200 or more, the audience might as well not exist. This can contrast quite dramatically with, say, screen acting, where your audience (the crew) are usually impossible to ignore. And unlike an attentive stage audience who are pretty much sitting still and listening to you, a film crew might be doing any number of things.

That is, of course, assuming you're shooting in a studio. Start talking about location shooting and suddenly the potential distractions increase exponentially, depending on the specifics. Weather, traffic, bystanders... it can be quite fun! Then there's the sorts of job-specific considerations that you don't normally get with stage work - picture cars, moving camera shots, animals... the list just goes on and on.


under really hot lamps

Hah, hah, you're kidding me right? Yeah those 2K pars really belt out the light don't they? Tell you what, why don't you stand under a couple of 24Ks for half a day and see how that feels. Films use much bigger lights than theatre. Particularly if you're shooting 35mm.


in god knows what out fits

Why don't you talk to some of the extras who played Orcs in the Helm's Deep battle of The Two Towers about how god awful stage costumes are? :rolleyes: I did a film where the lead actor spent nearly a week wearing wet muddy clothing all day. I've never come across anything that unpleasant on stage. The worst that I normally seem to have to deal with is a feeling of embarrassment.


where any number of things can go wrong.. yeah..

Believe me, much more can go wrong on a film set than on a stage. And I've had some pretty god-awful things happen to me on stage before (ever been run over by a 12 tonne barricade? It sucks).


they got it cozy.

No they don't. Stage acting can be pretty demanding. Particularly if you don't get a break. On the flip side, stage acting is more fun.


There was no point worth addressing.

There was. In fact you yourself made the point, whilst simultaneously missing it.


It sounds like it. I really haven't heard much about those events.

They're famously cited as great examples of very intense acting.


Again, it requires him to control his emotions, and *act*. It's not about just getting blindly enraged..

Some directors actually intentionally goad their actors into losing it, to get a good performance out of them. Steven Spielberg is well known for it, which I think is quite important considering Spielberg directed Bale in his first major film. I suspect that Spielberg had a pretty significant impact on the kid.


I think it's obvious, based on what we know of him, that he has, to some degree, a hot headed personality.

What do we know of him? All we really know for sure is the guy has a "potty mouth" which he himself admits to. That's hardly a staggering revelation - in my experience theatre and film people are worse than sailors!


Everyone on the set experiences stress. The only people that get away with acting like jagoffs are the *stars*, and sometimes the director.

If I had to rank the people on a set I think are most likely to be excused for losing it at a fellow crew member it would be, in order:

1. Director of Photography
2. First Assistant Director
3. Producer
4. Director
5. Lead cast (only if they're famous/important)


Maybe if you didn't sarcastically condescend to me, you wouldn't get the responses I gave you. In fact, I can promise you that you wouldn't have.

I wasn't condescending to you, I was repeating myself in simpler terms because your first post indicated you had completely ignored what I had earlier written. No one likes to be ignored. :)


So you're trying to tell me that they work 10-16 hour shifts, six days a week, for six months a year????

It depends entirely on the film. For big name actors like Christian Bale, you're probably typically looking at between 4 and 6 months shooting, and 10-16 hours would be a pretty standard day (everyone loves a film with children in the lead roles because you're limited to an 8hr shooting day). Most Hollywood films seem to do 6 days a week although some shoots are 5 days a week - it depends.

Of course not all cast are in every scene, so it depends really on the nature of the schedule. With high profile cast they tend to block shoot all of their stuff in one go. But if the actor's going to be there for the majority of the film they might schedule in breaks. Then of course on top of that you have pick ups, publicity stuff, your sound post production, and possibly some pre-production work like fight training or whatever.

It varies a lot.

How much down time the actor has really depends on the actor. They might do one film every couple of years or they might do many films a year. Bale seems to do two or three a year.

The bottom line is, while they're working, screen actors typically work much longer hours than Computer Graphic artists.

[gumboot]

Gumboot, you might not mean it, but you really are coming off like you basically want actors to have immunity from consequences for their actions as long as they are done
"in character" and "on set".


I want people to appreciate that a film set environment is a unique type of environment, and that you cannot use someone's behaviour on set as judgment of what sort of person they are.

The regular rules of society simply don't apply on a film set. It's a closed, isolated environment and it has to function in a strange way to work.

I've never, ever screamed at someone like that, but I've been an a-hole on set before and treated people (normally extras - they're a pain in the ass) in a way I'd never treat someone in real life. I didn't do it because I enjoy the power, or because I'm a mean person. I did it because it's my job. I have to do it, to get the job done.

If a fellow crew member needs to act like a class A prick to do their job, that's fine, I'll deal with it, shut my trap, and let them do it. If they act like that off the set, or carry any sort of baggage with them from day to day I'll tell them to their face, that it's not good enough.

[Undesired Walrus]

I've never, ever screamed at someone like that, but I've been an a-hole on set before and treated people (normally extras - they're a pain in the ass) in a way I'd never treat someone in real life. I didn't do it because I enjoy the power, or because I'm a mean person. I did it because it's my job. I have to do it, to get the job done.


As someone who worked on set at Leavesden and Pinewood Studios for two years, I understand your anger, I've witnessed it.

However, I'd advise you that treating people with respect, regardless of the job you are undertaking, is preferable to treating them in a cruel manner. And, if the job is more important then your personal -momentary- emotions and exasperations, you have a duty to suppress it for the good of the picture.

[gumboot]

As someone who worked on set at Leavesden and Pinewood Studios for two years, I understand your anger, I've witnessed it.

However, I'd advise you that treating people with respect, regardless of the job you are undertaking, is preferable to treating them in a cruel manner. And, if the job is more important then your personal -momentary- emotions and exasperations, you have a duty to suppress it for the good of the picture.


I think you misunderstood me. There's on anger involved. Extras, in particular, have very little invested in a film. For them it's a holiday - a day off work to fool about and enjoy themselves. They're often quite uncooperative, and worse still many of them are also "actors" and if we ADs give them an inch, they'll take a yard.

As an AD, handling hundreds of extras, I simply can't afford to get to know each of them, understand their feelings, and explain everything to them. I have to establish my authority over them immediately, and I have to make it absolutely clear that for the duration of the day they will do what I say, when I say, and nothing else.

We're curt, emotionless, and uncompromising. We don't make exceptions to the rule.

That's pretty unpleasant - to be bossed about like that. I know it, because I've been an extra before myself. But it has to be done. That's how it works. I am sure there's more than one extra out there who thinks I'm a complete bastard.

I can't walk up to a bunch of extras and go: "Hey guys, how's it going? Who wants to be in this scene? Yeah? Cool. You guys come over here with me and we'll do some work. Oh that's fine, go to the bathroom and we'll wait..."

I do that and I'll have a sorry string of extras lazily stroll onto set in ones and twos. It delays the shoot, it makes things harder, and the 1st AD will chew my ear off for it.

Instead it's more like this:

"Right. You, you, you and you. Come with me right now. No. You can't go to the bathroom. Move it. No, leave the book behind. I don't care. Hurry up."

Some of it's just getting things done quickly, but it's more than that. There's a psychological aspect to it. It's posturing. I'm making it clear that I'm higher up than them, and that if they don't cooperate with me I'll make things uncomfortable for them.

It's an act, of course, and I need to do it for my job. Sometimes it sucks. It's hard to chat up a cute actress at the end of the day's shooting when you've been bossing her about all day. :D

[Undesired Walrus]

Extras, in particular, have very little invested in a film. For them it's a holiday - a day off work to fool about and enjoy themselves. They're often quite uncooperative, and worse still many of them are also "actors" and

I was employed by Warner Brothers, witnessing many thousands of extras being handled. I remember ecstatic faces, not disrespectful actions. I think you are making a broad generalisation.

if we ADs give them an inch, they'll take a yard.

Using a favourite phrase of a Southern Slaveholder? We've reached the extremes here.;)


We're curt, emotionless, and uncompromising. We don't make exceptions to the rule.

Again, all I can say is that is not my experience. Chris Carreras (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0140240/) was, from what I recall, a highly respectful AD.

I can't walk up to a bunch of extras and go: "Hey guys, how's it going? Who wants to be in this scene? Yeah? Cool. You guys come over here with me and we'll do some work. Oh that's fine, go to the bathroom and we'll wait..."

Nobody expects you to. But that doesn't mean this:

"Right. You, you, you and you. Come with me right now. No. You can't go to the bathroom. Move it. No, leave the book behind. I don't care. Hurry up."

Is the correct strategy. The phrase shows complete disinterest (and even contempt) in the extra as a person. If you do not value them as a person -only merely as a cardboard cut-out and a necessary evil- then they have no reason to value the art you are attempting to produce.

[alfaniner]

I remember on the Extras for the Abyss DVD, one of the actors said that his response to anyone who complained about working on any project was always "**** you, I did The Abyss." Some of the toughest working conditions ever. And James Cameron.

Granted, it was several years earlier, but I highly doubt Bale went into full Method mode when he did American Psycho.

[jmcvann]

... get out there and frikken act.

Right on.

I can even make you your blade if you wish.

I was just looking around for a rapier!

Personal experience.

Fair enough! (I did not see that coming!)


Extras, in particular, have very little invested in a film. For them it's a holiday - a day off work to fool about and enjoy themselves. They're often quite uncooperative, and worse still many of them are also "actors" ...

I've seen this behavior and I just don't get it. Especially from other actors. I find myself thinking: "Why are you here?"

Instead it's more like this:

"Right. You, you, you and you. Come with me right now. No. You can't go to the bathroom. Move it. No, leave the book behind. I don't care. Hurry up."

Works for me. I've done some extra work. I'm there to serve the project. I don't understand why some people don't get that simple concept.

Nobody expects you to. But that doesn't mean this ... is the correct strategy. The phrase shows complete disinterest (and even contempt) in the extra as a person. If you do not value them as a person -only merely as a cardboard cut-out and a necessary evil- then they have no reason to value the art you are attempting to produce.

I gotta agree with gumboot on this one. If an extra doesn't understand why he's there and what will be expected of him, he shouldn't be there. Gumboot's hypothetical directions above are stern, but certainly not contemptful.

[Redtail]

It sounds to me like you're trying to equate what the guy did with what Bale did. There is no comparison. The guy made a mistake, as people do from time to time, _including_ Bale. Is Bale berated like that when he makes a mistake? No, and if someone tried to he wouldn't stand up for it. But he inflicts it on others because he can and he knows nobody will stop him. He's a bully.

No, I'm saying Bale overreacted to a repeated mistake and without knowing several factors that have been pointed out by Gumboot and others, calling Bale "a bully" is silly.

Also I'm pointing out that this is not a rare thing in the business, this just happened to be on tape.

[Redtail]

Yes. I've also acted on stage, which just about every actor will tell you is the more challenging of the two.
I see both of them as challenging for different reasons.



All I did was pick up a phone? And you're calling me the ignorant one. Get a clue.
Get the point.

[dudalb]

I remember on the Extras for the Abyss DVD, one of the actors said that his response to anyone who complained about working on any project was always "**** you, I did The Abyss." Some of the toughest working conditions ever. And James Cameron.

Granted, it was several years earlier, but I highly doubt Bale went into full Method mode when he did American Psycho.


There are literally dozens of Cameron stories in the business. And it is not just the extras. At one Point in the Abyss apparently Ed Harris almost quit because he felt Cameron was asking him to do something that was just plain dangerous and that no role was worth getting killed for.
A couple of years ago Cameron did a mea culpa that he knew he has behaved badly on set but he promised to change his ways. Stories coming out of people working on Avatar indicate he has not kept that promise.

[Cain]

Weird. I listened to his apology live on KROQ. At first I thought it was a joke.

Here's the impression from the voice-guy Ralph Garman that Bale himself thought was funny: http://kroq-data.com/wah/wah/audio/?a=1119

[gumboot]

I was employed by Warner Brothers, witnessing many thousands of extras being handled. I remember ecstatic faces, not disrespectful actions. I think you are making a broad generalisation.

Were you an AD? I ask that because I've seen plenty of ecstatic faces too - like I said, most extras are there to have fun. Yes, it's a generalisation, but it's a pretty accurate one. There's two general types of extras:

1) Actors - these are the ones who see themselves as serious actors, but happen to be doing some extras work "this time". Ricky Gervais' TV series isn't too far off. They can be the most painful, because they expect you to treat them like an actor. On the plus side, they tend to be more focused.

2) Non-film people - these are your people who have their own regular career, have no interest in a career in film, and are just doing it for a bit of fun and extra money. They don't have the arrogance of the other group, but they usually don't understand the process as well, and can be difficult to keep focused and in line.


Using a favourite phrase of a Southern Slaveholder? We've reached the extremes here.;)

Is that where that phrase comes from?


Again, all I can say is that is not my experience. Chris Carreras (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0140240/) was, from what I recall, a highly respectful AD.

Well yeah, he's a first. Firsts don't have much to do with your supporting cast or extras. They spend most of their time with your lead cast and your crew. You need a totally different attitude for that job. As a First I normally wouldn't talk to anyone like that (except perhaps a 2nd or 3rd if they were dragging their heels).


Nobody expects you to. But that doesn't mean this:

Is the correct strategy. The phrase shows complete disinterest (and even contempt) in the extra as a person. If you do not value them as a person -only merely as a cardboard cut-out and a necessary evil- then they have no reason to value the art you are attempting to produce.

I don't agree at all. It's not that we don't value them as people. It's that we don't have the time to micro-manage every little problem or request they have. I had an extra whose sister was involved in a very serious car accident while we were shooting, and we couldn't have been more accommodating. If there's a genuine problem I'll bend over backwards to help one of my extras.

But I won't let one of them head off set at lunch time to buy a newspaper, and I won't get into a discussion about the matter either.

(That's probably the only time I've ever actually got really angry at an extra).

A film set is a very big machine, and it only runs smoothly if every single cog is doing what it should be. Once it starts to break down things go from bad to worse exceedingly quickly, so part of my job as an AD is to keep the machine running. Most of those cogs can look after themselves pretty well. If it's going to break down somewhere it's usually going to be amongst the extras or sometimes the cast - it's very easy for them to lose focus and lose touch with what's happening, particularly if they have long periods of waiting around. So we keep on their backs and we don't let up.

[gumboot]

Stories coming out of people working on Avatar indicate he has not kept that promise.


Hah. My friend and his workmates linked up with Cameron for what was going to be a 2 hr video conference to go over the animation for some key sequences. As soon as the meeting started they explained to him that the models were mostly incomplete or simply place holders, and that no texture, lighting or rendering had been done. He was to simply ignore all of that and just approve or alter the animation itself (i.e. the movement).

Shortly after the first segment started it all went awry.

JC: What the **** is up with those rocks?
WETA: Just ignore those, they're just place holders. Look at the animation.
JC: This is ****, I've told you guys a hundred times! What the ****? They look like something out of the Flintstones!
WETA: They're just-
JC: This is ****. No. I'm not doing this. Come back when you have done some real **** work and don't waste my time with this **** **** ****!

And that was the end of the meeting. He cut the link. 2 minutes, 30 seconds into it.