God in the pledge?

[Malachi151]

Given the history of the pledge:

The Pledge of Allegiance was originally written in 1892 was a Christian Socialist, Francis Bellamy.

The original pledge was as follows:

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

The pledge became popular, especially among youth organizations and things of that nature.

In 1924 the American Legion (a conservative pro-nationalist organization) participated in having the words “my Flag” changed to “the Flag of the United States of America”.

“The American Legion's constitution includes the following goal: "To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism." One of its major standing committees was the "Americanism Commission" and its subsidiary, the "Counter Subversive Activities Committee." To the fear of immigrants, it added the fear of communism.”

The original author objected to this change and felt that it did not reflect the intent of his original writing.

Obviously “my Flag” has a much different connotation to it then “the Flag of the United States of America”. In the first instance the flag and what it represents is the possession of the citizen, in the second instance the citizen is now pledging to something owned by the government.

The pledge was again changed in 1954, during the McCarthy era.
The change in 1954 was the addition of the words “under God”, so that the pledge then read:

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

This last change was originally requested by the Knights of Columbus, a conservative Catholic organization.

Should we even have this thing at all? I see the entire Pledge itself as "unAmerican" personally, if anything it should be restored to its origional form, with the use of "my Flag".

[Scoobmaster]

Hmmmmm,

Part of me wants to say change it back to the original. Everything I have read/heard concerning the 1954 change indicates that the intention was to "put the fear of God" back into school kids (I.E. promote christian dogma).

On the other hand, it doesn't really bother me so I don't feel it is worth spending much time/legal fees on.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Scoobmaster
Hmmmmm,

Part of me wants to say change it back to the original. Everything I have read/heard concerning the 1954 change indicates that the intention was to "put the fear of God" back into school kids (I.E. promote christian dogma).

On the other hand, it doesn't really bother me so I don't feel it is worth spending much time/legal fees on.

What he said.


The pledge just isnt that big of an issue. I dont believe in god, so why should I care if it is in the pledge?

[fishbob]

Planet X Option - just get rid of the pledge entirely. Have American citizens recite one of the Bill of Rights instead of pledging. The only legit purpose for the pledge is just a reminder of what this country is based on, so why not 1st Amendment Monday, and 2nd Amendment Tuesday, and pick a number Wedsnesday, etc. It would make people smarter than they are now.

[Malachi151]

Well IMO the whole thing is bogus really. The era in which the pledge was changes in 1924 to be more nationalistic was a fascist era in ALL countries. The motto at the time was "America for Americans", and groups like the KKK and American Legion promoted rituals of loyalty to the State, and promoted things like pledging to the government out of fear that immigrants were not 100% loyal to the USA.

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/AmericaforAm.jpg

That's the attitude that brought us the revisions in the Pledge in the first place and the push to have the pledge be a required oath. It was finally determed that ti could not be required, but it was grous like the KKK and American Legion and Black Legion that were the ones trying to make it required in the first place.

I think the origional had some merit as a toally volentary thing, but everything after the first 10 or so years of the Pledge is no good IMO. Its all designed to do the same thing that Nazi pledges and oaths and rituals do, build loyalty to a regime. Screw that, that is NOT what America is about. The founders had no intent for such a thing as a pledge of allegiance to the government and I certianly d not intend to ever say it, nor do I want to live ina society with drones who do.

Its fascist and that all there is to it.

[Peach Jr.]

I hadn't realized that the Pledge of Allegiance had been revised before 1954. That was pretty interesting. I voted for the original version, as I liked the idea of "my flag" and not "the flag of the U.S.of A.".

I really have a problem with forced displays of patriotism. Earlier this year, our state mandated reciting the pledge in the public schools. In my opinion, the only thing this teaches children is that patriotism isn't a natural display of love for one's country. It must be mandated and forced because nobody would feel that way of their own accord. I don't believe that, and I don't want my children learning that. I'd also like a little control over what they learn in terms of religion - the current form of the pledge (again, my opinion only) takes that away from parents.

[Tmy]

I uised to think it was no big dead since so much time has passed the words have become traditional. THat is until we had the whole 10 commandments in the courts mess. People pointed to the handful of references of "god" through govt as a justification. So ifthe god freaks want to nickpic I say the anti-god freaks should too.

The only reason its an issuse is cause the pledge is a requirement in schools.

[Silicon]

Wow, Malachi great picture of the KKKK. It is a great demonstration of why flag-waving does nobody any good, because anyone can own the flag, and wrap themselves in it. What a frightening piece of Americana you have there.

What the hell was the KKKK? A splinter group that thought they didn't have enough K's?

They certainly weren't as popular as the old KKKKK. But they had it all over the miserable KK.

[Malachi151]

Originally posted by Silicon
Wow, Malachi great picture of the KKKK. It is a great demonstration of why flag-waving does nobody any good, because anyone can own the flag, and wrap themselves in it. What a frightening piece of Americana you have there.

What the hell was the KKKK? A splinter group that thought they didn't have enough K's?

They certainly weren't as popular as the old KKKKK. But they had it all over the miserable KK.

Knights of the Ku Klux Klan

[Tony]

I agree that the pledge is fascist (in spirit, not in application), but it is mostly harmless. What Im worried about is the fascism that intrudes into our everyday lives in the forms of taxes, civil rights violations and the general attitude that the individual is subordinate to society.

[Schizobunny]

I refuse to say the Pledge, because, first of all, I do not believe in god and I don't think I should have to worship something I don't believe in. Secondly, the Pledge promises liberty and justice for all in this country, but does not deliver. Thirdly, they are making the Pledge mandatory in certain states and I believe this is infringing on our constitutional rights. My teacher makes me stand up even though I don't say it.

[corplinx]

I'm all for ditching the pledge altogether. The flag too.

Freedom isn't in a forced recitation of words or in a piece of cloth. Freedom is in your right not to say those words or to burn that cloth.

To me oaths and penants are just obsoleted emblems of medieval times.