Texan who died in prison cleared of rape conviction

[Galileo]

Texan who died in prison cleared of rape conviction
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Texas district court judge Friday reversed the conviction of a man who died in prison nearly a decade ago, almost two decades into a prison sentence for a rape he swore he did not commit, CNN affiliate KXAN reported.

Timothy Cole was convicted and sentenced to 25 years in prison for the 1985 rape of 20-year-old Michele Mallin. He maintained his innocence, but it was not confirmed by DNA until years after his 1999 death, when another inmate confessed to the rape.

In the courtroom of Judge Charlie Baird Friday afternoon, Mallin, now 44, faced Jerry Johnson, the man who confessed to the rape.

....

But there was one detail: Mallin told police her attacker was a smoker. "He was smoking the entire time."

Cole, who suffered from severe asthma, "was never a smoker," said his brother, Cory Session. "He took daily medications [for asthma] when he was younger."

....

Later, while in prison, Cole rejected an offer of parole that would have required him to admit guilt. "His greatest wish was to be exonerated and completely vindicated," his mother, Ruby Session, told KXAN.

....

Johnson did not know Cole had died. In fact, according to the Avalanche-Journal, he had been writing to court officials for years to confess to the rape, but got nowhere.

....

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116288

[UNLoVedRebel]

Very sad. This is why physical evidence outweights eyewitness testimony.

[Puppycow]

What an awful story. :(

[Puppycow]

Here is the article (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/06/texas.exoneration/index.html). Notice that Cole is an African American.

Another story (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-exoneration_07tex.ART.State.Edition1.4c16066.html)

[dudalb]

Very sad. This is why physical evidence outweights eyewitness testimony.



Unless you are a 9/11 Truther....

[Puppycow]

Unless you are a 9/11 Truther....

Let's stay on topic. This is the politics forum and this is a thread about a wrongful conviction. :)

[Roma]

The local school board in Barrie, Ontario, made a report to the |
| Children's Aid Society (CAS) that 11-year-old Victoria, the |
| autistic daughter of Colleen Leduc, was a victim of child |
| abuse. The evidence? A psychic reading! |
| |
| On May 30, 2008, Ms. Leduc received a phone call telling her to |
| come to the school to meet with her daughter's teacher and the |
| principal. The teacher explained that an assistant in her |
| classroom had visited a psychic who asked her if she worked with a |
| little girl with the initial V. When the assistant said "Yes," the |
| psychic said, "Well you need to know that this girl is being |
| sexually abused by a man between the ages of 23 and 26." |
| |
| The principal showed Ms. Leduc a list of behaviors that Victoria |
| displayed in the classroom as support. Although the behaviors were |
| common in the class of autistic children, the principal had, |
| nevertheless, called CAS. |
| |
| Ms. Leduc soon met with officials of the Children's Aid Society |
| who quickly closed the case. |
| |
| The school superintendent then explained: |
| |
| "School staff and administrators have a duty to report... when |
| there is suspected abuse and if they believe there is reasonable |
| grounds. However, it is the CAS that weights any package of |
| evidence ..." |
| |
| "I can say that historical and current and future practice from |
| the board's position is that psychic readings are not regarded as |
| evidence." |
| |
| As of mid-July, Ms. Leduc had no apology from the school and does |
| not expect one. She is looking at other schools for her daughter. |
| Humphreys, A. (2008, June 19) |
| Psychic's vision sets of sex-abuse probe |
| National Post. Retrieved on June 26, 2008 from: |
| www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=597195 |
\_________________________________________________ ___________________/

[gdnp]

Johnson did not know Cole had died. In fact, according to the Avalanche-Journal, he had been writing to court officials for years to confess to the rape, but got nowhere.

This is the part I find most disturbing. Texas often seems to be more interested in whether the law has been followed correctly than whether the right guy has been convicted. In this case, to the point of ignoring the confession of the real rapist.

It reminds me of the recent testimony in the Madoff case. The SEC was handed the evidence that Madoff was a fraud, repeatedly, over several years, but chose to ignore it.

In retrospect, all you can do is ask "what were they thinking?"

[FlamingMoe]

Notice that Cole is an African American.
Notice he has two eyes. And a nose, too!

Whatzyerpoint?

[slingblade]

Notice he has two eyes. And a nose, too!

Whatzyerpoint?

That Texas is rather notorious for keeping innocent blacks in prison.

http://abajournal.com/weekly/18th_innocent_man_freed_in_1_texas_county_official s_vow_change

[Macgyver1968]

That Texas is rather notorious for keeping innocent blacks in prison.

http://abajournal.com/weekly/18th_innocent_man_freed_in_1_texas_county_official s_vow_change

Yes..we do that on purpose...because all Texans hate black people. We frame them at any chance possible. I framed one this morning...silly black person...should have never tried to buy milk at my local store.

[FlamingMoe]

That Texas is rather notorious for keeping innocent blacks in prison.

http://abajournal.com/weekly/18th_innocent_man_freed_in_1_texas_county_official s_vow_change

Your article says nothing about the racial composition of the eighteen cleared defendants. The evidence you have provided doesn't support your claim. Furthermore, eighteen wrongful convictions in seven years really doesn't tip the "notorious" balance against Texas, as far as I'm concerned, even if they were all black. Finally, you have declined to produce evidence showing a tendency for Texas to resist exonerating innocent blacks more than innocent whites.

Fail, fail, fail.

[Safe-Keeper]

This is the part I find most disturbing. Texas often seems to be more interested in whether the law has been followed correctly than whether the right guy has been convicted. In this case, to the point of ignoring the confession of the real rapist.I remember this from living there. Tough on Crime took precedence over justice big-time. Don't know how representative it is of the States in general.

[Puppycow]

Yes..we do that on purpose...because all Texans hate black people. We frame them at any chance possible. I framed one this morning...silly black person...should have never tried to buy milk at my local store.

You say that sarcastically, but Texas does have a reputation. This is another data point in that reputation. Has anything similar to this case happened to a white Texan?

[Puppycow]

Report: Dallas prosecutors bar black jurors (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9033376/)

DALLAS - As recently as 2002, Dallas County prosecutors were excluding eligible black prospects from juries at more than twice the rate they turned down whites, a newspaper reported Sunday.

The issue surfaced earlier this year when the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the 1986 murder conviction of a black man accused of killing a white motel clerk, saying the Dallas County jury that convicted Thomas Miller-El was unfairly stacked with whites.

The Supreme Court cited a manual, written in 1969 and used until at least 1980, that instructed prosecutors on how to exclude minorities from Texas juries. Justice David Souter wrote that racial discrimination in the Miller-El case was unquestionable.
Race bias pervades jury selection (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/longterm/stories/030986.829cdf8f.html)

Prosecutors routinely bar blacks, study finds

08:40 AM CDT on Sunday, August 21, 2005

By STEVE MCGONIGLE and ED TIMMS / The Dallas Morning News


Editor's Note: This story first appeared in The Dallas Morning News on March 9, 1986.

Dallas County prosecutors routinely have excluded nine out of 10 blacks qualified to serve as jurors, perpetuating a decades-old pattern of racial discrimination on felony juries.

For four out of five black defendants, the selection process means that the constitutionally guaranteed impartial jury of their peers will be an all-white jury.

An eight-month investigation by The Dallas Morning News shows that prosecutors routinely manipulate the racial composition of juries through their use of peremptory challenges -- legal objections that allow lawyers to dismiss prospective jurors without explanation.

District Attorney Henry Wade, however, denied that his assistants exclude prospective jurors solely because of race, although he acknowledged that race may be a factor in whom they dismiss. Prosecutors, Wade said, act within the spirit of the adversary legal system to exclude anyone if they believe it will give their client -- the people of Dallas County -- "a fair trial."

While blacks comprise 18 percent of Dallas County's population, The News' analysis of 100 randomly selected felony trials found that fewer than 4 percent of jurors were black. In fact, the chance of a qualified black serving on a jury was 1-in-10, compared to a 1-in-2 chance for a qualified white.

Of those blacks struck from juries by peremptory challenges, the study found, 92 percent were barred by prosecutors. Blacks were excluded from juries at almost five times the rate of Anglo jury candidates and twice as often as Hispanic candidates.

Several legal experts characterized the findings as showing that Dallas County prosecutors are engaging in a "systematic exclusion' of black jury candidates that violates not only the defendants' right to a fair trial, but also the right of black citizens to participate equally in administering justice.

[Puppycow]

So we have a wrongfully convicted black man and we also have a "systematic exclusion' of black jury candidates that violates . . . the defendants' right to a fair trial." In Texas. Maybe the one has nothing to do with the other, but I doubt it.

ETA: And apparantly the jury in Cole's case was in fact all white (http://thirdmom.blogspot.com/2009/02/hope-deferred-for-timothy-cole.html)

Brief summary: In 1985, Texas Tech student Michele Mallin was raped in a parking lot. She identified Timothy Cole as her attacker, although police had no physical evidence linking him to the crime and he had an alibi that was supported by several eye-witnesses who could prove he was elsewhere at the time. Lubbock law enforcement officials, however, were determined to convict him, which they easily did with the help of Cole’s erroneous identification by the victim and an all-white jury.
. . .
So far this decade, 34 men in Texas, most of them black, have been exonerated by
modern DNA testing. They spent 10, 15, 20, even 27 years wrongly imprisoned for
rape before being released.

[Bikewer]

NPR had an extensive report on this case as well. In addition to all the information above, I found it striking that no one involved in the original case was even remotely interested in the exoneration of the deceased convict.
They had to go entirely out of the district to find a judge who was willing to handle the exoneration proceedings.

This is not unique to Texas, of course; there have been numbers of these "innocence project" cases where prosecutors have been strongly resistant to re-visiting the case, even when exculpatory evidence has been found, and egregious trial errors committed.
The attitude seems to be, "well, he was convicted by a proper trial, and that should stand."

[Galileo]

Tim Cole does not look like Johnson at all:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/06/texas.exoneration/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

The bitch who did this to Tim Cole is a not only a liar, but a stone cold racist. She should be held accountable for her actions and rot in prison. She is also dangerous and a threat to every black male in Texas.

[Puppycow]

Tim Cole does not look like Johnson at all:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/06/texas.exoneration/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

The bitch who did this to Tim Cole is a not only a liar, but a stone cold racist. She should be held accountable for her actions and rot in prison. She is also dangerous and a threat to every black male in Texas.

Don't focus all of your anger on her. There's plenty of blame to go around starting with man who actually did rape her and let an innocent man pay the price. Then there's the judge, jury, prosecutor, police, and (maybe) defense lawyer.

ETA: Also not sure what the basis is for saying they didn't look similar (at the time of course, not years later). Are there any photos of both men from the same time for comparison?

[Kestrel]

NPR had an extensive report on this case as well. In addition to all the information above, I found it striking that no one involved in the original case was even remotely interested in the exoneration of the deceased convict.
They had to go entirely out of the district to find a judge who was willing to handle the exoneration proceedings.

This is not unique to Texas, of course; there have been numbers of these "innocence project" cases where prosecutors have been strongly resistant to re-visiting the case, even when exculpatory evidence has been found, and egregious trial errors committed.
The attitude seems to be, "well, he was convicted by a proper trial, and that should stand."

The huge number of similar cases in that state is a clue how racist and corrupt the Texas justice system was only a couple of decades ago.

[Galileo]

Don't focus all of your anger on her. There's plenty of blame to go around starting with man who actually did rape her and let an innocent man pay the price. Then there's the judge, jury, prosecutor, police, and (maybe) defense lawyer.

ETA: Also not sure what the basis is for saying they didn't look similar (at the time of course, not years later). Are there any photos of both men from the same time for comparison?

I agree. The Judge, prosecutor, and detectives should all be locked up. This was a team effort to get Tim Cole.

[al_capone_junior]

I agree. The Judge, prosecutor, and detectives should all be locked up. This was a team effort to get Tim Cole.

Welcome to texas "justice."

[Edges]

Tim Cole does not look like Johnson at all:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/06/texas.exoneration/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

The bitch who did this to Tim Cole is a not only a liar, but a stone cold racist. She should be held accountable for her actions and rot in prison. She is also dangerous and a threat to every black male in Texas.

For misidentifying the man who raped her? Unless there is some indication that she purposefully identified Timothy Cole with full knowledge that he was not the one who raped her, she did not knowing lie. I'm willing to cut her a little slack as rape is a traumatic experience and people's memories react in different ways to traumatic experience. The Innocence Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php) indicates ways in which she could have been led to an identification of Cole without malice on her part.

I think the responsibility falls more on the shoulders of those people who put him on trial and convicted him purely on her visual identification of him. Especially since they must have ignored her other statement that the man who raped her was smoking the entire time and Timothy Cole's severe asthma and lack of smoking should have excluded him as a suspect. That should have clued in somebody that perhaps her identification could not be completely relied upon, for whatever reason.

[parky76]

This is why, even though the death penalty may be just, the danger of it being applied to the wrong person is just too great.

[TragicMonkey]

This is not unique to Texas, of course; there have been numbers of these "innocence project" cases where prosecutors have been strongly resistant to re-visiting the case, even when exculpatory evidence has been found, and egregious trial errors committed.
The attitude seems to be, "well, he was convicted by a proper trial, and that should stand."

Virginia has a time limit for introducing new evidence, no matter what it is. Even if it completely exonerates someone already convicted. Because the state doesn't want "frivolous appeals". Nice, eh?

[gdnp]

Virginia has a time limit for introducing new evidence, no matter what it is. Even if it completely exonerates someone already convicted. Because the state doesn't want "frivolous appeals". Nice, eh?

Expediency trumps justice.

[Galileo]

For misidentifying the man who raped her? Unless there is some indication that she purposefully identified Timothy Cole with full knowledge that he was not the one who raped her, she did not knowing lie. I'm willing to cut her a little slack as rape is a traumatic experience and people's memories react in different ways to traumatic experience. The Innocence Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/Eyewitness-Misidentification.php) indicates ways in which she could have been led to an identification of Cole without malice on her part.

I think the responsibility falls more on the shoulders of those people who put him on trial and convicted him purely on her visual identification of him. Especially since they must have ignored her other statement that the man who raped her was smoking the entire time and Timothy Cole's severe asthma and lack of smoking should have excluded him as a suspect. That should have clued in somebody that perhaps her identification could not be completely relied upon, for whatever reason.

The lied on the stand to get Tim Cole, who she hated.

When she picked Cole out of the police lineup, she said she "thought" that was the black guy who looked the most like the rapist.

But on the stand she told the jury she was "certain".

Motive for lying - revenge.

[gdnp]

The lied on the stand to get Tim Cole, who she hated.

When she picked Cole out of the police lineup, she said she "thought" that was the black guy who looked the most like the rapist.

But on the stand she told the jury she was "certain".

Motive for lying - revenge.

Why did she hate Tim Cole?

Why did she wish to extract revenge against an innocent man, rather than the man who raped her?

[Galileo]

Why did she hate Tim Cole?

Why did she wish to extract revenge against an innocent man, rather than the man who raped her?

because the cops told her that he did it and because he MIGHT have done it, from her point of view.

But she is supposed to testify as to what she saw, not what the cops want her to say.

She should be held accountable for her actions. An eye for an eye.

[The Nimble Pianist]

This is why, even though the death penalty may be just, the danger of it being applied to the wrong person is just too great.

I didn't know Texas execution involved dying in prison. :rolleyes:

[Edges]

because the cops told her that he did it and because he MIGHT have done it, from her point of view.

But she is supposed to testify as to what she saw, not what the cops want her to say.

She should be held accountable for her actions. An eye for an eye.

I think you are assigning motives. Again, a witness who has been led by the police is not deliberately lying. Do you have any proof of these allegations?

[Galileo]

I think you are assigning motives. Again, a witness who has been led by the police is not deliberately lying. Do you have any proof of these allegations?

She is lying about her level of belief. She;s on the record saying she only "thinks" that Tim Cole did it. But in the trial, she said she was "certain".

She picked Cole out of the lineupm because he was the black guy who looked the most like the rapist. That is totally different than being "certain" that Cole is the rapist.

Also, Cole and Johnson do not look alike, so that is another proo that she lied on the stand.

Also, Johnson was smoking during the rape, but Cole was a non-smoker with asthma.

Michele 'all black people look alike" Mallin should be held accountable for her actions. I would support the death penalty in this case.

[gdnp]

She is lying about her level of belief. She;s on the record saying she only "thinks" that Tim Cole did it. But in the trial, she said she was "certain".


This is a common theme of people picked out of line-ups. The victim's degree of certainty often increases over time. If the police or prosecutors were leading her, this would only tend to increase her degree of certainty.

In some ways it is like the use of hypnosis: it does not improve the accuracy of people's recollections, but it does increase their feelings of certainty about what they think they recall. This is why testimony after hypnosis is generally banned. It is very damning for someone to stand in front of a jury and claim they are SURE this was the guy.

Unless you can demonstrate that she testified against Cole knowing he was innocent out of some desire to extract revenge from the black race, or she lied about her degree of certainty intentionally, I don't think there is any basis to charge her. I'm not going to put a rape victim in jail for misidentifying her assailant as long as it was an honest mistake.

[Edges]

She is lying about her level of belief. She;s on the record saying she only "thinks" that Tim Cole did it. But in the trial, she said she was "certain".

She picked Cole out of the lineupm because he was the black guy who looked the most like the rapist. That is totally different than being "certain" that Cole is the rapist.

Also, Cole and Johnson do not look alike, so that is another proo that she lied on the stand.

Also, Johnson was smoking during the rape, but Cole was a non-smoker with asthma.

Michele 'all black people look alike" Mallin should be held accountable for her actions. I would support the death penalty in this case.

None of that is proof that she purposefully lied or that she thinks all black people look alike. I would be more surprised if she did not claim conviction on the stand. Also, she may have come to believe that Cole was the one.

How would she have known that Timothy Cole was not a smoker? If she did not know him, which she couldn't have for you to claim that she thinks all black people look alike, then she could not have access to this information. This can in no way be her fault. So why are you blaming her? Blame the police who did not eliminate him as a suspect because of this fact, blame the prosecutor who went ahead despite this, blame the defense attorney that didn't play this up enough, blame the jury who ignored this evidence, but you cannot blame the victim for this.

It's disturbing that you think the death penalty is an acceptable punishment for perjury, perjury of which there is even less evidence than that which convicted Timothy Cole. The woman does not deserve to die for being mistaken about who raped her. Even the Innocence Project does not blame the eyewitnesses who misidentify people or think that they are worth of punishment.

Based on the graphs on the link I posted earlier, although the majority of misidentified people are African-American, other races/skin colors have been misidentified as well. It's a leap to think that this woman misidentified him solely because of his race with no evidence other than your own suppositions.

[Edges]

I'm not going to put a rape victim in jail for misidentifying her assailant as long as it was an honest mistake.

But it's worse than that, isn't it? He/she thinks Mallin should die for it:

Michele 'all black people look alike" Mallin should be held accountable for her actions. I would support the death penalty in this case.

Emphasis mine.

[Lonewulf]

I didn't know Texas execution involved dying in prison. :rolleyes:

So... ergo... the court only makes mistakes on rape and the "small crimes", never the ones that would give the death penalty?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what point you have to make here. Texas DOES have the death penalty, and does sentence people to death. If the court makes an error with one case, what makes it immune to error with another?

[Elaedith]

But it's worse than that, isn't it? He/she thinks Mallin should die for it:



Emphasis mine.

Well initially, it was 'she should rot in prison', but now its the death penalty.

Strange, its almost like people change their minds over time and become MORE CERTAIN that they are right or something.

[Galileo]

None of that is proof that she purposefully lied or that she thinks all black people look alike. I would be more surprised if she did not claim conviction on the stand. Also, she may have come to believe that Cole was the one.

How would she have known that Timothy Cole was not a smoker? If she did not know him, which she couldn't have for you to claim that she thinks all black people look alike, then she could not have access to this information. This can in no way be her fault. So why are you blaming her? Blame the police who did not eliminate him as a suspect because of this fact, blame the prosecutor who went ahead despite this, blame the defense attorney that didn't play this up enough, blame the jury who ignored this evidence, but you cannot blame the victim for this.

It's disturbing that you think the death penalty is an acceptable punishment for perjury, perjury of which there is even less evidence than that which convicted Timothy Cole. The woman does not deserve to die for being mistaken about who raped her. Even the Innocence Project does not blame the eyewitnesses who misidentify people or think that they are worth of punishment.

Based on the graphs on the link I posted earlier, although the majority of misidentified people are African-American, other races/skin colors have been misidentified as well. It's a leap to think that this woman misidentified him solely because of his race with no evidence other than your own suppositions.

I agree with the tough on crime Law Code of Hammurabi, an eye for an eye.

If you falsely accuse another of rape and then cause their death, then you should be raped and put to death. This should be done to Michele Mallin, the prosecutor, the Judge, and the detectives. Society needs to be rid of this dangerous scum.

Tim Cole does not look like Johnson. That is proof by itself that Mallin is a liar.

[Galileo]

Well initially, it was 'she should rot in prison', but now its the death penalty.

Strange, its almost like people change their minds over time and become MORE CERTAIN that they are right or something.

rotting brings about a fairly quick death.

[Lonewulf]

rotting brings about a fairly quick death.

:boggled:

Your posts are getting stranger and stranger.

[Elaedith]

I agree with the tough on crime Law Code of Hammurabi, an eye for an eye.

If you falsely accuse another of rape and then cause their death, then you should be raped and put to death. This should be done to Michele Mallin, the prosecutor, the Judge, and the detectives. Society needs to be rid of this dangerous scum.

Tim Cole does not look like Johnson. That is proof by itself that Mallin is a liar.

Not to anyone with any understanding of human memory.

People who spread false and ignorant ideas about how human memory works (such as implying that people who do not look alike cannot be genuinely mistaken for each other, or that memory for a face does not change over time) are indirectly responsible for what happened to Cole.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Here is the article (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/06/texas.exoneration/index.html). Notice that Cole is an African American.

Another story (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-exoneration_07tex.ART.State.Edition1.4c16066.html)

Which is relevant how, exactly?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The bitch who did this to Tim Cole is a not only a liar, but a stone cold racist. She should be held accountable for her actions and rot in prison. She is also dangerous and a threat to every black male in Texas.

Maybe we should rape her. That would send a message. :rolleyes:

[Edges]

I agree with the tough on crime Law Code of Hammurabi, an eye for an eye.

If you falsely accuse another of rape and then cause their death, then you should be raped and put to death. This should be done to Michele Mallin, the prosecutor, the Judge, and the detectives. Society needs to be rid of this dangerous scum.

Tim Cole does not look like Johnson. That is proof by itself that Mallin is a liar.

Um, wow. It's a good thing we don't all live in your world. You do realize that this would mean many women wouldn't come forward at all? Because if they happen to be mistaken about a TRAUMATIC event, they will be raped AGAIN and killed.

I think I need to stop posting in this thread, because if you can't see what is wrong with your statements that a rape victim should be raped again and killed for a mistake, there's no point in arguing with you. There are problems with our justice system for sure, but your solution would lead to a more barbaric and frightening place to live in.

[Galileo]

Um, wow. It's a good thing we don't all live in your world. You do realize that this would mean many women wouldn't come forward at all? Because if they happen to be mistaken about a TRAUMATIC event, they will be raped AGAIN and killed.

I think I need to stop posting in this thread, because if you can't see what is wrong with your statements that a rape victim should be raped again and killed for a mistake, there's no point in arguing with you. There are problems with our justice system for sure, but your solution would lead to a more barbaric and frightening place to live in.

WRONG

The Babylonian Empire had a low crime rate with Hammurabi at the helm.

[shadron]

Welcome to texas "justice."

Unfortunately, it isn't just Texas. There is plenty of guilt to go around. A public sentiment to "hang 'em high" and a desire to see "more efficient" justice, the idea that a legal opinion can trump proof, even late proof, the need for a junior prosecutor to break a big case in order to advance, the judge who wants to get re-elected, and legislators who pander to fear and "moral" outrage (reference 3 strike laws, for example). These things are, if not common, certainly significant possibilities throughout the American justice system.

Another thing in he way is pride. Once a prosecutor has committed to prosecution of an individual, he believes he looks foolish in changing his mind, and indeed he does. That leads to a less glorious employment future, and so is to be avoided at all costs. The Lacrosse team rape prosecutions are prime examples of this.

That's altogether beside whatever racism may also be present.

Modern justice is messy and subject to manipulation for these reasons. Also unfortunately, it's very difficult to find fixes.

[Galileo]

Um, wow. It's a good thing we don't all live in your world. You do realize that this would mean many women wouldn't come forward at all? Because if they happen to be mistaken about a TRAUMATIC event, they will be raped AGAIN and killed.

I think I need to stop posting in this thread, because if you can't see what is wrong with your statements that a rape victim should be raped again and killed for a mistake, there's no point in arguing with you. There are problems with our justice system for sure, but your solution would lead to a more barbaric and frightening place to live in.

WRONG

Women would still come forward, but they would be honest regarding their level of belief.

The system we have now is barbaric.

[Lonewulf]

WRONG

Women would still come forward, but they would be honest regarding their level of belief.

The system we have now is barbaric.

:rolleyes:

[Galileo]

Maybe we should rape her. That would send a message. :rolleyes:

Hammurabi might prefer having her eyes gouged out. That way, she could never falsely accuse another innocent man of rape.

[Lonewulf]

Hammurabi might prefer having her eyes gouged out. That way, she could never falsely accuse another innocent man of rape.

Bizarre.

[slingblade]

I agree with the tough on crime Law Code of Hammurabi, an eye for an eye.

I doubt that. I think you like the way it sounds, but that you don't really have a good idea what it would mean, in practice.

Justice isn't vengeance.

If you falsely accuse another of rape and then cause their death, then you should be raped and put to death. This should be done to Michele Mallin, the prosecutor, the Judge, and the detectives. Society needs to be rid of this dangerous scum.

Right, so when are you leaving? No, seriously, that's right up there with the more disturbed thinking I've witnessed. It may not seem to matter to you, but do try to realize there are actual rape survivors on this board.

I notice that your post there doesn't say that men who rape should themselves be raped as their punishment. Did you forget to mention it?

To throw water on the upcoming strawman I sense, I do think there are flaws in, and problems with, the justice system, but I hardly think they'd be solved by putting vengeance in place of justice.

[Edges]

WRONG

The Babylonian Empire had a low crime rate with Hammurabi at the helm.

From The Relic:

Dr. Albert Frock: The Kai tribe believed that headaches were caused by sorcery. So, the headache victim's family would go out and kill the suspected sorcerer. At which, of course, the family of the sorcerer would go out and kill the headache victim.
Lt. Vincent D'Agosta: So what happened?
Dr. Albert Frock: Well, a medical miracle: everyone stopped having headaches.

[slingblade]

Your article says nothing about the racial composition of the eighteen cleared defendants.

The article (it is not "my" article; I didn't write it) does not give specific numbers. It does vaguely state that most of the eighteen are black.

Here's a photo:
http://www.texasmonthly.com/2008-11-01/feature2.php

The evidence you have provided doesn't support your claim.

My opinion that Texas is "rather notorious" relates to the press coverage of such events. I did not imply other states don't have this problem; indeed, I think it likely that many do, having looked at incarceration rates per state by race. But the stories seem to come often from Texas, in my opinion, making it rather notorious. You do know what notorious means?

There was that whole mess in Tulia, after all...

Furthermore, eighteen wrongful convictions in seven years really doesn't tip the "notorious" balance against Texas, as far as I'm concerned, even if they were all black.

Will you provide evidence to support your claim, or are you simply giving an opinion, too?


Finally, you have declined to produce evidence showing a tendency for Texas to resist exonerating innocent blacks more than innocent whites.

Why would I? I never mentioned this "resistance."

Fail, fail, fail.

I lol'd. :p

[Bikewer]

I seem to recall from the NPR article that the victim was shown "a polaroid" picture of the fellow. No photo lineup, no physical lineup, just the one photo.
Even when I started in police work, such "procedures" would have resulted in my being laughed out of the prosecutor's office here....

[UnrepentantSinner]

Yes..we do that on purpose...because all Texans hate black people. We frame them at any chance possible. I framed one this morning...silly black person...should have never tried to buy milk at my local store.

Oh stop with the hyperbole and persecution complex. You know full well that the mere accusation against Cole would have gotten him lynched here well into the 20th Century. We've come a long way since then, but '85 wasn't that far removed segregated water fountains in city hall.

[Puppycow]

Hammurabi might prefer having her eyes gouged out. That way, she could never falsely accuse another innocent man of rape.

Boy, you sure do have some anger issues. You should get help. :)

[Puppycow]

Which is relevant how, exactly?

See posts #15, #16 and #23

Maybe we should rape her. That would send a message. :rolleyes:

See post #38

[Kestrel]

Oh stop with the hyperbole and persecution complex. You know full well that the mere accusation against Cole would have gotten him lynched here well into the 20th Century. We've come a long way since then, but '85 wasn't that far removed segregated water fountains in city hall.

Here is another case (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,926416,00.html) of '80s style Texas justice. The prosecutors, and cops and an all white jury did their duty and sent an innocent black man to jail for 25 years to life.

[Puppycow]

There was that whole mess in Tulia, after all...

Ah yes. Tulia. There's another data point. I remembered that one, but couldn't recall the name of the town.

1999 drug arrests

Tulia gained notoriety following a drug sting in July 1999 that rounded up 46 people, forty of whom were African Americans. The remaining detainees were white people known to have ties within the black community, and in fact lived in the black part of town. Nearly one in three of Tulia's black males was arrested, about 15% of the town's black population.[4][5] All charges were based on the word of undercover officer Tom Coleman, a so called "gypsy cop" who made his living traveling through impoverished rural Texas offering to work undercover cheaply for short periods of time for underfunded police departments. Coleman claimed to have made over one hundred drug buys in the small town, essentially an impossible feat for an undercover officer working alone. He never recorded any of the sales, but claimed to have written painstaking notes on his leg under his shorts and upper arm under his shirt sleeve when nobody was looking.

During the roundup, no large sums of money, illegal drugs, drug paraphernalia, or illegal weapons were found. The accused drug dealers showed no signs of having any income associated with selling drugs. The drugs Coleman claimed to have bought from the accused did not have the fingerprints of the accused on them or their baggies. No independent witnesses could corroborate Coleman's claims. In his testimony, Coleman gave inaccurate descriptions of the "dealers" he had allegedly bought cocaine from. One suspect had his charges dropped when he was able to prove he had been at work during the times he had supposedly sold Coleman cocaine. Another produced bank and phone records indicating she was in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma at the time of her alleged crime. Many of the accused, however, seeing the long sentences dealt out by all-white juries in the earliest cases, pled guilty in return for lesser sentences, despite their proclaimed innocence. The remaining defendants were convicted solely on the basis of Coleman's testimony. The state attorney general awarded Coleman a prize for being "Lawman of the Year." [6][7]
Unbuh-frickin-lievable.
Nope. Texas is just like everywhere else. Sure.

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Is this thread about a wrongful conviction in Texas, or about Texas being notoriously racist?

There are wrongfully convicted blacks in every state and nobody here has posted any proof that Texas is more guilty of this than other state. It's really cool that you can Google a few articles of this happening in Texas, but try doing the same thing to any other state and see what happens.

Now, if you people are done bein' silly Imma put on ma' ten gallon cowboy hat, saddle up my horse (because that's how we all get around down here), and mosey on down to my local water'n hole fur sum whiskey. YEEEEE HAAAWWWW!

[quixotecoyote]

Here is another case (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,926416,00.html) of '80s style Texas justice. The prosecutors, and cops and an all white jury did their duty and sent an innocent black man to jail for 25 years to life.

Anyone know if he passed the lie detector?

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Holy Crap!! Wisconsin is notorious too: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-30-wrongful-conviction_N.htm

OH NO!! New York too: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/nyregion/01wrongful.html

New York again?!?!? Are they "notorious" now?
http://www.nlada.org/DMS/Documents/1193156185.54/index.html

By the ears of Obama, not Illinois too: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_17_95/ai_54731499

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

I think TGSO Texas should be praised for the efforts taken recently to flush out all of the wrongful convictions and other lesser states should follow our lead!:p

[Kestrel]

Anyone know if he passed the lie detector?

Most of the story can be found here (http://www.dallasobserver.com/2001-11-15/news/the-way-of-the-gun/1)

[UnrepentantSinner]

{snip}
Now, if you people are done bein' silly Imma put on ma' ten gallon cowboy hat, saddle up my horse (because that's how we all get around down here), and mosey on down to my local water'n hole fur sum whiskey. YEEEEE HAAAWWWW!

You're not helping.

[Puppycow]

Now, if you people are done bein' silly Imma put on ma' ten gallon cowboy hat, saddle up my horse (because that's how we all get around down here), and mosey on down to my local water'n hole fur sum whiskey. YEEEEE HAAAWWWW!

Well. . .
tt05KC3Add8
:boxedin:

Holy Crap!! Wisconsin is notorious too: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...nviction_N.htm

OH NO!! New York too: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/ny...1wrongful.html

New York again?!?!? Are they "notorious" now?
http://www.nlada.org/DMS/Documents/1....54/index.html

By the ears of Obama, not Illinois too: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...95/ai_54731499

It would be silly to argue that wrongful convictions only happen in Texas.
Maybe it's just my confirmation bias, but there just seem to be more of these stories and more egregious ones coming from Texas.

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

Maybe it's just my confirmation bias, but there just seem to be more of these stories and more egregious ones coming from Texas.
It is.;)


Naw, I'm only giving you a hard time. I've been to some bass akwards places here in Texas. There are some towns/cities in the panhandle that the civil rights movement never quite made it to, but I'm sure that's the case in a lot of states. I just think the fact that we are the biggest state in the south (and most populated) makes us more likely to stand out from the rest. Plus there are a lot of black people in TX, believe it or not. Taking a proactive approach on these cases will help set an example for the other, lesser states to follow. hehehe

[Damien Evans]

:boggled:

Your posts are getting stranger and stranger.

Look at his post history if you want to know why.

[Ranb]

.....The bitch who did this to Tim Cole is a not only a liar, but a stone cold racist. She should be held accountable for her actions and rot in prison. She is also dangerous and a threat to every black male in Texas.

Timothy Cole's brother does not agree with you.

From your link, "Mallin is helping them. "I was very traumatized," she said. "I was scared for my life. I tried my hardest to remember what he looked like. "I'm trying to get his name cleared. It's the right thing to do." Cory Session said, "We don't blame Michele. She's very gracious."

Ranb

[Arus808]

WRONG

Women would still come forward, but they would be honest regarding their level of belief.


Wow jsut wow. your ignorance knows no bounds. and right now your stupidity is also very disgusting


My cousin was raped and it took 4 years to finally get her rapist in jail for the crime. She spent 4 years in and out of therapy; was sent to the hospital three times for clinical depression, and all that time she blamed herself for what happened. It took our entire family to convince her to go to the police to make the report of rape.

DO you know how difficult it is for a woman to even report a rape?
Statistically 1 in every 6 women are raped; 60% of those rapes go unreported.

What you propose, women will not bother to even report the rape, because of retaliation should they not correctly identify their assailant; and most likely would lead to higher rates of suicide, depression cases, or both.




The system we have now is barbaric. no, what you're suggesting is barbaric. apply your thinking to all crimes. If a victim mis-identifies a murder suspect, is it fair to put that person in jail for misidentification?

You are seriously deluded.

[Ladewig]

Statistically 1 in every 6 women are raped;

That is a large number. Do you have a citation for that statistic?

[daredelvis]

Report: Dallas prosecutors bar black jurors (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9033376/)


Race bias pervades jury selection (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/longterm/stories/030986.829cdf8f.html)

Let's just keep adding to that.
Houston DA Chuck Rosenthal (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/side/5440542.html)
Former Sheriff Tommy Thomas dumps the evidence. ( http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/13_undercover&id=6233364 )

This is just the tip of the iceberg here. There was clearly a culture that allowed this kind of garbage to go on in both the DA's and Sheriff's office. These are not the kind of people that should be administering the law, but they were repeatedly reelected in Harris county. The crap that continues to come out about former Sheriff Tommy Thomas and his office makes me want to puke.

I think it is fair to say that were I a black man, I would not want either of these men in a position to decide my fate.

Daredelvis

[Galileo]

Timothy Cole's brother does not agree with you.

From your link, "Mallin is helping them. "I was very traumatized," she said. "I was scared for my life. I tried my hardest to remember what he looked like. "I'm trying to get his name cleared. It's the right thing to do." Cory Session said, "We don't blame Michele. She's very gracious."

Ranb

It is common for helpless crime victims, who have been traumatized, to make weird statements like that.

[Galileo]

Wow jsut wow. your ignorance knows no bounds. and right now your stupidity is also very disgusting


My cousin was raped and it took 4 years to finally get her rapist in jail for the crime. She spent 4 years in and out of therapy; was sent to the hospital three times for clinical depression, and all that time she blamed herself for what happened. It took our entire family to convince her to go to the police to make the report of rape.

DO you know how difficult it is for a woman to even report a rape?
Statistically 1 in every 6 women are raped; 60% of those rapes go unreported.

What you propose, women will not bother to even report the rape, because of retaliation should they not correctly identify their assailant; and most likely would lead to higher rates of suicide, depression cases, or both.




no, what you're suggesting is barbaric. apply your thinking to all crimes. If a victim mis-identifies a murder suspect, is it fair to put that person in jail for misidentification?

You are seriously deluded.

I've got a friend, a running back from the Wisconsin football team, who was the victim of a false accusation. He is suffering from many emotional struggles since this happened, and has not made the NFL like he was projected to. His entire family has been bankrupted as well.

Your callousness towards the truth is disgusting.

[dudalb]

Your callousness towards the truth is disgusting.

Consdiering the posting history of this individual:


:dl:

[Cicero]

So... ergo... the court only makes mistakes on rape and the "small crimes", never the ones that would give the death penalty?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what point you have to make here. Texas DOES have the death penalty, and does sentence people to death. If the court makes an error with one case, what makes it immune to error with another?

Perhaps incarceration should no longer be a form of punishment since innocent people die behind bars who were not sentenced to death?

I don't think anyone has been sentenced to death for rape in the U.S. for the last 50 years.

[Lonewulf]

Perhaps incarceration should no longer be a form of punishment since innocent people die behind bars who were not sentenced to death?

I don't think anyone has been sentenced to death for rape in the U.S. for the last 50 years.

And once again, we see a beautiful ability to either drop in a Non Sequitor, or miss the point completely.

[Kevin_Lowe]

That is a large number. Do you have a citation for that statistic?

A quick Google later:

"Using a definition of rape that includes forced vaginal, oral, and anal sex, the National Violence Against Women Survey found that 1 of 6 U.S. Women and 1 of 33 U.S. men has experienced an attempted or completed rape as a child and/or adult. According to estimates, approximately 1.5 million women and 834,700 men are raped and/or physically assaulted annually by an intimate partner in the United States. (Tjaden, P. & Thoennes, N. (1998, November). A Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women: Findings From the National Violence Against Women Survey, @ p. 2 & 5. Research in Brief. Washington, DC: National Institute of Justice, U.S. Department of Justice.) "

http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sa.shtml (my bolding)

From what I can tell they weren't using a controversial definition of rape or doing any other statistical funny business, so with the caveat that it counts attempted rape the number seems roughly correct.

From a different web page:

"In what is widely regarded as the best independent study of rape, a 1992 report titled "Rape in America," the authors found that 13 percent of all women had been victims of at least one rape over their lifetime, with 62 percent of the rape cases happening before age 18. Of the total, 29 percent of the victims were under 12 when they were raped."

...

""I think that despite all the research about rape in the past 10 or 15 years," Ms. Tjaden said, "in most people's minds a rape victim is still an adult and the perpetrator is a stranger. But that is not true. Our data shows that it is a family member or an acquaintance. And now we are learning that the typical victim is a very young girl."

Ms. Tjaden said there appear to be two categories among the youthful victims of rape. The first is very young girls, ages 3, 4 or 5, who are raped by a family member, with the assaults often lasting until the child is 10 years old. The second is girls around age 13, 14 or 15 who are raped by people they describe as boyfriends, though the men may be much older."

http://www.nytimes.com/specials/women/warchive/970203_1408.html

So to sum up, one in six might be slightly high but it's not that far off. However presenting the data as "one in six women are raped" is a bit misleading. It would be better to say something like "One in seven or eight women currently alive have been raped, most often as minors, and most often by family or friends".

[Arus808]

I've got a friend, a running back from the Wisconsin football team, who was the victim of a false accusation. He is suffering from many emotional struggles since this happened, and has not made the NFL like he was projected to. His entire family has been bankrupted as well.

and how is this emotional baggage hurt him? just because he lost a football career. WHOOPDY freaking doo. As they would say, he needs to grow a freaking backbone. Gee, there are many players who hurt their knees and lose their chances of a football career and gone on to lead productive and rewarding lives.

aGain your comments are wholly disgusting as you are diminishing the seriousness and emotional toll of what a violent act of RAPE has on women. By your comment above, you show how you are nothing more than a digusting person inside and out.

Your My callousness towards the truth is disgusting.
fixed that for you.

[Redtail]

I've got a friend, a running back from the Wisconsin football team, who was the victim of a false accusation. He is suffering from many emotional struggles since this happened, and has not made the NFL like he was projected to. His entire family has been bankrupted as well.

Your callousness towards the truth is disgusting.

What's his name?

[Ranb]

It is common for helpless crime victims, who have been traumatized, to make weird statements like that.

I was talking about Cory Session. He was not a helpless crime victim making a weird statement. Or do you think Mr Session is weird for not blaming the rape victim?

Ranb

[Ladewig]

So to sum up, one in six might be slightly high but it's not that far off. However presenting the data as "one in six women are raped" is a bit misleading. It would be better to say something like "One in seven or eight women currently alive have been raped, most often as minors, and most often by family or friends".

Yes. Before posting my response, I did some quick googling and saw that the FBI statistics were much lower than 1 in 6, but those statistics indicate the number of rapes every year.

[Macgyver1968]

Oh stop with the hyperbole and persecution complex. You know full well that the mere accusation against Cole would have gotten him lynched here well into the 20th Century. We've come a long way since then, but '85 wasn't that far removed segregated water fountains in city hall.

I will agree that Texas was a seriously racist place in the past. I'm just saying things have changed. Things are getting better. Hell...Dallas county, a mainly white, republican district, voted an Africian American as President, in an overwhelming majority.

Texas is a large state with a large population. People are wrongfully convicted in every state and in every country. We just have a bigger pool to cherry pick specific cases of mis-justice.

[Kestrel]

I will agree that Texas was a seriously racist place in the past. I'm just saying things have changed. Things are getting better. Hell...Dallas county, a mainly white, republican district, voted an Africian American as President, in an overwhelming majority.

Texas is a large state with a large population. People are wrongfully convicted in every state and in every country. We just have a bigger pool to cherry pick specific cases of mis-justice.

Texas and more specifically Dallas county has a history of putting the quest for convictions above the search for justice.

Quoting The Thin Blue Line (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096257/)

Prosecutors in Dallas have said for years - any prosecutor can convict a guilty man. It takes a great prosecutor to convict an innocent man.


It's good to see the attitude down in Texas is finally changing.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I will agree that Texas was a seriously racist place in the past. I'm just saying things have changed. Things are getting better. Hell...Dallas county, a mainly white, republican district, voted an Africian American as President, in an overwhelming majority.

Texas is a large state with a large population. People are wrongfully convicted in every state and in every country. We just have a bigger pool to cherry pick specific cases of mis-justice.

I know. My dad's side of the family is from Texas, and I've lived in Texas for the past 22 years and Dallas for the past 15.

Texas and more specifically Dallas county has a history of putting the quest for convictions above the search for justice.
{snip}
It's good to see the attitude down in Texas is finally changing.

The bad old days were really winding down by the 80s and with the work of the Innocence Project some of the excesses of the past are being rectified.