A breath of fresh air, thank you JREF community.

[Funkenstien]

I usually don't post much on forums, but after reading through some of your responses, I thought I would share my story to the public here, and how much "clear thinking" meant to me.

First of all, I am a diagnosed Obsessive Compulsive Disorder sufferer. My "obsession" was the whole idea of The Second Coming of Christ. It never really bugged me until Time magazine published a cover article on the subject. After that I spent 6 months of my life living in fear of a "rapture," waking up sweating every night, running into to check if my parents were still there, calling my freinds at 3am to see if they were still there.

Now, for what it's worth, I was raised catholic and my parents were fairly open minded when it came to religion. We went to mass on Sundays, but there was no fire and brimstone. This was something I came across on my own, and it began at raptureready.com. and the Left Behind series. I went from a farily devouted believer in the Roman Catholic faith, to being afraid to walk by a church in my neighborhood, for fear I would see something that would remind me that the end is near. I bought it, hook line and sinker. I quit college, got fired from my job for not focusing on the work at hand, and fell into a very deep, very serious depression. My days were spent scouring the Internet for information pertaining to the subject of the End Times, and trying to find out the best way to "get raptured" so I could be spared from "The Tribulation."

Thank God my parents, my preist, and a family friend who is a Theolgy professor at the local seminary school. Without them, I would have either been dead or far beyond rational help. After 6 months of living hell, and my diagnosis of OCD, I was finally able to attend a mass again, something I used to enjoy, but due to "rapture fever" I was so afraid to even step inside a church.

An open message to billiefan, and others like him whom I've read throughout this and the RR forum. If Jesus were alive today, and saw how you people treat "non christians," how do you think he would react? Do you think he would scorn the Dali Lama for being such a peaceful and honorable man? Would he condem the millions of Jews that died in the Holocaust simply because they didn't recognize Him as the Son of God? What about the tribesman in Africa, who has lived a good life, supported his family, LOVED HIS FELLOW NEIGHBOR, followed basically all the Ten Commandments without actually being exposed to them, and lived life peacfully. Would he be condemed to eternal hellfire?

What you people teach is a warped and twisted from of the Bible, that scares people into believing what you believe. If you want some research as to where this "fad" is heading, Google these keywords: Jim Ellsion, David Koresh, Mountain Home, Branch Davidians, Jim Jones, the list goes on. How would Jesus feel if instead of spending your very short time on this earth feeding the homeless, you spent it scouring the news for proof that He was going to come and make it all better. Jesus never taught, NEVER taught "warn others of my coming," or " I will fix things once I get back." He taught "love your fellow man as I love you" "Follow my path."

Those of you that beleive in The Raputre, The Secong Coming, and The Book of Revelations are probably sifting through the same websites I used to visit as you read this, picking apart each sentence, finding nifty little one-liners that you can post that will justify your faith based terrorsim. No matter how you try to justify it, you are not doing Christs work. You are building believers up for event which, if you haven't already noticed, has ben predicted for 2000 years, and has not even come close to remotley having the smallest chance of happening. I pray for the disillusioned, when no Antichrist takes power, no Rapture happens, and Christ does not come to fix your problems. I pray for those who look back ten years from now and realised that instead of spouting the end is near, did not take the time to love there neighbor, to plant a tree, to visit a sick person. I pray for the dissapointed who didn't really get a chance to know Jesus because they were too busy waiting around for him.

To the members of the JREF community. Thank you for you dose of clear and rational thinking that helped me through a difficult time in my life, and believe it or not, made me a more spiritual person. I know the majority of you are skeptics and I applaud you for your research and your willingness to debate, not just accpet things at face value. Progress stems from those who won't conform. As long as there is debate, progress will march forward. I dont care if you are Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, Taoist, you worship your dog, or your cutout poster of Ricky Martin. As Lincoln once said, "Whatever you are, be a good one." That is what will bring heaven on earth.

Peace.

[Dancing David]

You seemed to have found some of the keys on your own, welcome to the forum,

when I wasn't taking antidepressants and my OCD got real bad I had a fear that there was going to be an afterlife and that I was going to have to eat everything that I threw away in the afterlife. It made me quite a fanatical recycler.

Fortunately my religous preoocupation was laways rather joyous.

Peace to you and welcome to the forum.

[c4ts]

Skepticism saves yet another soul from religion induced madness. Hal-a-loo-ya ay-men!

[Yahweh]

Thank you kindly for posting this :).

I'm glad the JREF has helped you, I'm glad you are no longer diseased by delusion.

The folk at Rapture Ready, I dont know what to think of them. Some of them are incredibly bigoted (i.e. they dont like gays), they can be hateful (i.e. they dont like atheists), they can be downright ignorant.

As an evil atheist, I already know what Christianity is. From dictionary.com:
Christianity (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Christianity)

The Christian religion, founded on the life and teachings of Jesus.

There it is, that is Christianity. Personally, I believe Christianity as a Philosophy (love thy neighbor, shelter the homeless, turn the other cheek, do unto others, be kind) is an excellent moral Philosophy. Unfortunately, due to several revivals in religious attitudes (the most recent occurring in the 50s, partially due to the Red Scare), Christianity has taken a turn for the worst. The concept of God, divinity, and literalization of the Bible has sullied this perfectly good Philosophy. The Rapture Ready folk are a real life epitomized version the paranoia that comes with religous faith.

Those kids have not rationalized their faith, a good number of them use fear as their means of rationalizing their faith (how shallow). The many "signs" I hear about sets off alarms to me, it sounds like schizotypal delusional paranoia.

As I said, those kids have done anything but rationalized their faith. I'm sure you've probably seen the "moon dust" arguement a few times. If you see anyone repeat "the dust on the moon is too thin, the Earth is only 6000 years old", consider that person HILARIOUS. They've obviously done no such outside reading, the Creationists themselves have refuted (and abandoned) this theory in the 30s, unfortunately it has survived for quite a long time (it is characterized in the same way as an urban legend).

Those kids can dissappoint. Apparently they dont believe atheists can be as moral as Christians. Well, morals are subjective arent they. An action that may be moral to one may hurt another (see 9/11, that event was justified in the name of religious faith... that is absolutely disgusting). It turns out, atheists can and are in fact just as moral as Christians. But those Rapture kids, they have this bizarre notion that preaching gospels is "good" (its annoying, and if you come across a guy like TriadBoy, you might rethink your religion). Why dont those kids do something like volunteer work. And no, volunteer work in the name of the Lord is unsatisfactory, its better done out of the kindness and humanity of ones heart rather than "the lord tells me to".

That Billiefan2000, he's made his rounds on the boards a few times. I dont have much to say to him except this: Get your marbles together. Your prayer groups are terrible. You know what, 1000 hands clasped in prayer doesnt do half as much work as 1 pair of hands that feeds child. Get your priorities straight, and start acting like a Christian.

I dont take Creationism seriously in the least. I think this document from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy sums up Creationism (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/creationism/):
10. Conclusion

Creationism in the sense used in this discussion is still very much a live phenomenon in American culture today — and in other parts of the world, like the Canadian West, to which it has been exported. Popularity does not imply truth. Scientifically Creationism is worthless, philosophically it is confused, and theologically it is blinkered beyond repair. But do not underestimate its social and political power. As we enter the new millennium, thanks to Johnson and his fellows, there are ongoing pressures to introduce non-evolutionary ideas into science curricula, especially into the science curricula of publically funded schools in the United States of America. And things could get a lot worse before they get better, if indeed they will get better. Already, there are members of the United States Supreme Court who have made it clear that they would receive sympathetically calls to push evolution from a preeminent place in science teaching. If future appointments include more justices with like inclinations, we could find that — nearly a century after the Scopes Trial, when the Fundamentalists were perceived as figures of fun — Creationism finally takes its place in the classroom. If this essay persuades even one person to take up the fight against so awful an outcome, then it will have served its purpose.

I'm glad to see JREF has helped, it has helped a number of others on the board including Ruby and Roadtoad.

Have a nice day :).

(I'm sure they wouldnt like me posting under the name Yahweh, would they?)

[Zep]

Welcome, Funkenstein! All of us here on this forum have our foibles, our likes and dislikes, our opinions, our religions or lack thereof, our medical concerns, our own ups and downs in life. And yet we are all pretty much reasonable, sane* and happy people. Glad you could join us!

Really, the answers to your dilemmas were all there in front of all the time. So it was fortunate that you managed to actually see them through the fog of "rapture readiness."

So congratulations to yourself - your other afflictions, whatever they may be, now will not be added to by this silliness!

Keep us up to date from time to time - we offer you encouragement!


*There is debate on this about pillory, though!

[Funkenstien]

1000 hands clasped in prayer doesnt do half as much work as 1 pair of hands that feeds child.

EXACTLY. Right on, brother. I actually vocalized it when I read it. "Right on."

and now, a little from realization theatre

AT THE SECOND COMING

RR goup: Jesus! it's you, I'm so glad I am alive to see this glorious day! See?! I told you stupid Jews! He is the son of GOD!!!!

The Jews, battered and bleeding look at Jesus.

Jesus: Are you hungry, brother? Here, take my robe. There is some food over there. Welcome to my kingdom. Thank you for helping others.

[LFTKBS]

Wow.

(No, no, I'm fine . . . just got something in my eye, is all.)

I'm happy to hear that, Funk, and I'm sorry you were so troubled by thoughts of the Rapture. In my perfect world, you'd have given up on the religion thing entirely, yet it is good that you've at least taken JoN's good ideas and used them to counteract the insanity of religion-based eschatology.

I believe that I speak for many posters on the board when I say that our happiness at your recovery is not one of "Skeptics 1, Theists 0," but that a fellow human being has looked into the abyss and, as is so uncommon, has come back.

Welcome; be well.

[Eos of the Eons]

Very interesting, and thank you. It's wonderful to hear when someone is better after such an ordeal. Depression, obsession, ouch. I'm grateful you didn't come out of it for the worst, but for the better. I hope you continue to get any help or support that will come out of the community.

I'm impressed with Yahweh's post here too. Very insightful.

[a_unique_person]

I was also brought up a Catholic. Though they do not rant and rave, like the Fundies, the message is still a pretty uncompromising one. I was pretty bright at school, so that I was able to appreciate much better than my class mates just what it was that was being said. I was freaked out too. The majority just went along, gave it all lip service, and ignored most of what they were told.

I was eventually directed to the neighbourhood xian 'guru', (not the priest, curiously enough). He, amazingly enough, seemed to have dropped out of the mainstream weirdness, and seemed to have become a deist, or even informal buddhist. His advice was not to worry about it all, enjoy the world for what it was, and live a good life. Best advice a believer ever gave me, and seemed to recall the teachings of Jesus that have been buried under a beauracracy and theology he would have abhorred.

I am an atheist now, but place Jesus up there with the Budda and Confucious. A wise man who's teachings helped some but inevitably became lost and confused over many hundreds of years.

Billiefan and friends just seem to me to be people who can't wait to die, not people who want to live.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Eos of the Eons
I'm impressed with Yahweh's post here too. Very insightful.

Thank you, Eos, you are super nice! :)

[Funkenstien]

In my perfect world, you'd have given up on the religion thing entirely, yet it is good that you've at least taken JoN's good ideas and used them to counteract the insanity of religion-based eschatology.

Oh, I don't think I will ever give up on religion. There is still too much we don't know to discount the existence of a higher power. However, LFTKBS you are still more than welcome at my table. We can toss a few back and I'll try to save your heathen soul! LOL

Religion, like Yahweh so elegantly pointed out, should be firmly based in teaching, and not in the supernatural. I just cringe when I think about all of those people caught up in "rapture fever." All the young, impressionable minds who think this is the way to know Jesus, by hating Jews and gays, and not living life. This has the makings of mass suicide written all over it. You can tell in the posts. People are getting anxious for the Rapture. All it takes is someone to interpret one of the passages in the Bible as an excuse to commit suicide, and viola, we have a disaster on our hands. The sad thing is, there so called "brothers and sisters in Christ," would use a tragedy such as that as more evidence that Jesus is coming soon.

The most shocking thing I ever read on Rapture Ready was a link that listed the "accomplishments" of the crew that ran the site. (The link has since been taken down i think. If someone can find it, please post it.) Basically, it listed the charity work they had done. One of them simply stated (and I am paraphrasing... it's been awhile) "Consuled member and family after member attempted suicide after End Time fears got the better of him."

... am I the only one that fails to see the logic in that?

Yay, guys good job. You got a kid so depressed, he tried to end his own life, and then you talked him out of it. How sadistic is that?

Oh, and by the way. The turning point for me, they day I realized I needed help, was when I watched my first epsiode of the Jack Van Impe Happy Happy funtime show, featuring Puppet Pal Rexella, and everyone's favorite troll, the walking bible himself, JVI!

Man. those two are a laugh riot.

[The Don]

Originally posted by Funkenstien


Oh, I don't think I will ever give up on religion. There is still too much we don't know to discount the existence of a higher power.



Oh dear, I believe that means that one we've finished being nice to you, we'll have to fall upon you like a pack of wolves ;) ;)

Enjoy the benevolence while it lasts :D


five.......... four................ three................ two................ one..............

Funkenstein season has started

[whitefork]

Is the IEN in Funkenstien a play on FRONKENSTEEN as in Gene Wilder's revisionist pronunciation?

I'll be pedantic and point out that George Clinton spells it Funkenstein.

All hail the power of the Funk. UpChurch and CWL will be delighted.

And of course, a warm welcome.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Funkenstien
Oh, I don't think I will ever give up on religion. There is still too much we don't know to discount the existence of a higher power.


...and zero!

Welcome Funkenstein.

The Don brings up an interesting thing you wrote. It seems you are following a 'God of the gaps' with this statement. Sort of like - science is what we know, religion is what we don't know.

If you are interested in examining your biblical beliefs, I'd love to help. :)

[SFB]

In re: the OP, wow, incredible post.

[Funkenstien]

Mty handle has a few meanings.

Meaning the 1st. Amos Funkenstein, he was a Jewish theologian, with a pretty cool name.

Meaning the 2nd, I am a fully ordained Minister of the Funk. (make my funk the p-funk)

OK now on to the whole quote I said about not knowing enough to discount the belief in a higher power.

I'm a catholic because I choose to be. That's not to say I don't think catholicism, and christianity in general is due for a major overhaul. I am completle ready to accept there is no God, and that Jesus was just a great teacher. What matters is the core of the faith. the life and teachings of JoN. Not the guilt trip, the belief in the Second Coming, the Fatima Prophecies, etc etc ad naseum.

But who knows? maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't. While we argue that, I have a life to lead.

:D

[triadboy]

You should meet Upchurch. He's a funk-meister too.

[iankaplan]

But who knows? maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't.Welcome to Agnosticism! I used to hang out there; maybe you'll run into some of my old friends.

Your original post was incredible. Congratulations on defeating your illness and on finally living in a world of reason.

[plindboe]

:clap: Great post Funkenstien! :clap: You should post it at the RR board too. Hopefully that would make a few of them think. Welcome back to reality. :)

[Bluegill]

I really enjoy spending time here because of wide array of intelligent and kind people (there are those who neither, but they are definitely a minority.) Looks like you're another one--welcome!

[hgc]

Funk,

Welcome to the JREF forum.

Perhaps you're aware already, but there's a movie about this. It's called "The Rapture," and it stars Mimi Rogers. She becomes obsessed with the rapture, and takes her daughter out to the desert to be raptured after having a vision that it was imminent. Very intense, and sad. I never knew that there were people who suffered like this (not that this character had OCD). I still didn't know about real life examples, even after seeing this movie.

I am so sick of seeing people driven to desperation by religion.

http://www.reel.com/content/boxart/vhs/2142.GIF

[Eos of the Eons]

You know, when I think of rapture-it's never anything religious, it may even be sinful :D

This thread is what gives me hope for the world. I admire how funny, welcoming, understanding, etc that everyong is here.

Breath of fresh air is a perfect description.

I look forward to seeing more of your posts Funkenstien, and to seeing whenever you tell more about how you overcame depression and fear.

Yay, guys good job. You got a kid so depressed, he tried to end his own life, and then you talked him out of it. How sadistic is that?

It's a beauty of an example of the irony of it all. I just have to say how much I appreciate these observations.

[kerfer]

Great post, Funk.

The transformation has begun...your mind is becoming your own

That's a good thing.

Congratulations, and welcome.

[the_ignored]

Originally posted by Funkenstien
...<great big honking SNIP!!>...

But who knows? maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't. While we argue that, I have a life to lead.

:D
Heh. I like your attitude. You've got the proper perspective. And unlike the RR people, we won't friggin' attack you just because your theological beliefs are different than ours!

Those RR people can be freaky... Their "We that Struggle" forum creeps me out sometimes.

Oh yeah, and Welcome (I know, I know, it's getting old!)


Wonders what the RR people would say to the de-conversions that have come to this board: "Teh Wiccan", "Ruby" "Roadtoad" etc?

[Keneke]

Originally posted by hgc


I am so sick of seeing people driven to desperation by religion.



I am of the mind that desperation (or the penchant for desperation) comes before the religion. Religion is a medium. What do you think?

edit: Where are my manners? Welcome Funkenstein!

[hgc]

Originally posted by Keneke


I am of the mind that desperation (or the penchant for desperation) comes before the religion. Religion is a medium. What do you think?

edit: Where are my manners? Welcome Funkenstein! True, it's a classic chicken & egg problem.

If Funkenstein has OCD, I wouldn't blame that on his religious beliefs, and I can believe that it would have significantly interfered with his life even had he not become a believer.

I have known numerous people who are what I'll term "searchers." They are constantly falling into one or another belief system, often involving charismatic leadership, be it new age, old time religion, multi-level marketing schemes, self-improvement seminars, etc. They are looking for meaning in their life where nature provides none, as best as I can tell. Some are susceptible to terrible manipulations, and some are more benignly affected.

[Keneke]

Don't you know it, hgc. There's this one guy I knew, he was the keyboardist in my old band. He was the most devout Wiccan I knew. Until he became the most devout Buddhist I knew. Until he converted to Christianity and burned all his porno mags. At this point, he reads the Torah nightly, just finished "The Bible Code", and is delving into the Kaballah.

I am aghast.

[Funkenstien]

If Funkenstein has OCD, I wouldn't blame that on his religious beliefs, and I can believe that it would have significantly interfered with his life even had he not become a believer.

I have had OCD my whole life, I just didn't realize it until I had such a profound reaction to the 9/11 attacks, and subsequently, how I fell victim to End Time paranoia. After someone put a name to it, knowing that I had a mental disorder helped me deal with why I just didn't shrug off the rantings of tv evangelists, the RR crowd, and others like them.

The more I learned about OCD, the more light was shed on some other thoughts and reactions I had since I was a young child. My choice of religion did not cause my OCD persay. On the contrary. The Catholic view of the surge of end time fascination is that is dangerous. As I said in my OP, I have a sinking feeling that some of the RR crowd may get a little too anxious for the Rapture and start thinking of other ways to "meet Jesus in the sky." Suicide, millitas, you've heard this before...

My whole point is, religion wasn't the cause. In many ways, at least in my case, it was a solution.

[Roadtoad]

I'll be brief:

Welcome, Funkenstein.

The Toad.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Welcome Funk.

And for the record Community is over three ----->
This is R&P. ;)