Are Abrahamic religions Hentotheist religions (not monotheist)?

[LarianLeQuella]

Something smeone else asked during a discussion and I found interesting.

Reason why they are; The OT talks about other gods and does not disallow them from being possible … just not to be worshipped. As such, the followers of the Abrahamic religions should acknowledge that other gods exist (if theirs does) and then state that they worship one even though that is the case. (One or a pantheon of co-mingled gods depending on sect.)

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Something smeone else asked during a discussion and I found interesting.

Reason why they are; The OT talks about other gods and does not disallow them from being possible … just not to be worshipped. As such, the followers of the Abrahamic religions should acknowledge that other gods exist (if theirs does) and then state that they worship one even though that is the case. (One or a pantheon of co-mingled gods depending on sect.)

You are asking for someone to provide a rational explanation within the bounds of Christian theology? Good Luck. :scared:

[LarianLeQuella]

LOl, just stirring the pot Gord. I like to see them make absurd claims and justifications.

Next topic is "Why did all the rest of the world not notice the sun going backwards?" :P

[Safe-Keeper]

The early Hebrews believed in at least one more God - Asherah, wife of Yahweh. Then they signed a covenant with Yahweh that only He would be worshiped, and Asherah fell out of favour.

So yes, there is more than one god in Abrahamic religion, they just like to believe otherwise.

[Silentknight]

Something smeone else asked during a discussion and I found interesting.

Reason why they are; The OT talks about other gods and does not disallow them from being possible … just not to be worshipped. As such, the followers of the Abrahamic religions should acknowledge that other gods exist (if theirs does) and then state that they worship one even though that is the case. (One or a pantheon of co-mingled gods depending on sect.)

As Safe-Keeper said (I refuse to abbreviate his name as SK for obvious reasons ;)) the ancient Hebrews did believe that other gods existed, but you just weren't supposed to worship them, only Yahweh. This is why all those laws and restrictions in the Old Testament involve penalties for worshiping competing deities (Baal, Moloch, et al) and is the very definition of henotheism. It wasn't until later that monotheists began flat-out denying the existence of other gods.

[JoeTheJuggler]

And even then, you've got this "pantheon" of saints in the Catholic tradition. They say they're not deities, but you pray for them to intercede to God on your behalf. It's splitting hairs to say they're not gods.

[Dancing David]

Part of the issue is the pruning of the original complex religion. You have the overwhelming of the other sectors by the rabbinical tradition, so the others get rationalized and pruned out.

And then there are the modern catholic apologists who like to make everything fit the point of view, while they deny that the catholic church ruthlessley removed all compettiton and evidence.

[TX50]

Personally I regard all theology as just hot air and don't waste any time on
it, but I do rememeber Donald Pleasance playing one of the "magi" in a
Franco Zefirelli film saying "All other gods are false gods, or else part of
Him". Isn't that something that they say in real life too?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

LOl, just stirring the pot Gord. I like to see them make absurd claims and justifications.

Next topic is "Why did all the rest of the world not notice the sun going backwards?" :P

Oh well in that case. The story I love is the one of Moses coming down from the mountain with the first set of the 10 Commandments to find the Israelis have managed to create golden gods (in the middle of the desert? Just how long was Moses up the mountain?) and are worshiping them,

These are the same people that have been "saved from Egypt", had the Red Sea open in front of them and close behind them and are been fed on a daily basis by bread falling from heaven!! All by the hand of the True God.

Of course these are the same people who had trouble finding their way across a couple hundred miles of sand in 40 years.

:boggled:

[LarianLeQuella]

Well, considering that according to all records and archeological evidence, the Egyptians never kept jewish slaves, I can see it taking 40 years to get from imaginary egypt to israel. ;)

[Delvo]

The answer is different for different religions within that wide, fragmented category. Catholics seem to worship a lot of different things, including dead humans and inanimate objects. At the Lutheran church and school I went to up to age 11, nobody ever claimed that Santa Claus, fairies including the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, witches, zombies, or werewolves were real, because those would have been supernatural beings other than God and the very concept of supernatural beings other than God was strictly a no-no. (Angels were treated as his creations, like us but just a bit different.)

[cwalner]

I am amazed how many Jews and Christians don't see this when it stares them in the face in the 1st commandment (don't know enough about Islam to know if they acknowledge the OT). "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Why would this commandment even be neccesary if other gods didn't exist?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I am amazed how many Jews and Christians don't see this when it stares them in the face in the 1st commandment (don't know enough about Islam to know if they acknowledge the OT). "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Why would this commandment even be neccesary if other gods didn't exist?

STOP ASKING LOGICAL QUESTIONS OR YOU WILL BE EXCOMMUNICATED OR

worse :cool:

[Dancing David]

Yeah! They could make you go to church, that would be worse!

[Bikewer]

Even though Christianity is supposed to be monotheist, one could make the case that it is practically not so.
Although we have "God" (rather confusingly split into three pieces, but not really...), there are also angels, saints, martyrs, and so forth.... All of these "ascended" types are arguably felt to be better than ordinary living mortals, and Christians (especially Catholics) are encouraged to pray to them, ask them for favors, etc.

Not dissimilar to any pre-Christian notion......

[LarianLeQuella]

What I am driving at is not even the god within the christian religion, but that they recognize that there are gods outside their religion in their most holy text. They even name a couple! Wonder how many christians have even read those parts of their bable?

[Gandalfs Beard]

I think the original post is missing the complexity of the situation, though I can sympathize with the principle espoused.

The Ancient Hebrews did indeed worship many Gods, the Sumer-Babylonian pantheon which was the basis for all Indo-European pantheons. When Zoroastrianism entered the picture it seems to have heavily influenced Hebraic thought. God in Genesis1 is referred to as Elohim, a plural term for many Gods. By Genesis2 God is Yahweh Elohim. And the rest of the Torah barely uses the term Elohim again. This shows a transition from Polytheism to Monotheism. And ever since, Orthodox Jews are strictly Monotheist. But we shouldn't forget the Quabbalistic Mystery School of Judaism, which could more accurately be described as Monistic (many in one).

Christianity is equally complicated, because despite vehement denials and sophistry, the Trinity is clearly Monist (not Monotheistic). In the first few centuries the followers of Arius denied the Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus until bullied into joining the Catholics and giving up their Heresy at the Nicene Council. The dozen or so Gnostics at the Council did not give up their more Hindu-like Heresy, that Divinity was a potential for all of humanity and that Jesus did not die for our sins, but to show humans how to strip away illusion and attain divinity. And frankly most Christians use verbal pretzel logic to get by the sticky bits in the bible.

Islam, like orthodox schools of Judaism and Arian (not to be confused with Aryan) Christianity maintained a strict Monotheism. And yet even in Islam we find the Mystery School of Sufism, which, like most Mystery Schools, preached a form of Monism--that we can all attain divinity.

Though I am fascinated by the Mystery Schools of religion, I remain an Agnostic. There is no way any religion can offer "proof" of an absolute truth. Nor can Atheism for that matter. We only have our Gnosis (Reason and Senses) and Science to guide us. All else is ultimately conjecture.

[Wowbagger]

Why do so many people who claim there is One True God actually pray to three of them?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Why do so many people who claim there is One True God actually pray to three of them?

Or in the case of the Roman Catholics who pray to the correct saint to ask the Virgin Mary to have a word with Jesus to put it on God's agenda. :duck:

[JoeTheJuggler]

Or in the case of the Roman Catholics who pray to the correct saint to ask the Virgin Mary to have a word with Jesus to put it on God's agenda. :duck:

Or pray through the intercession of St. Blaize for protection from diseases of the throat and all other diseases.

Or to St. Jude for help with hopeless causes, or to. . . (don't get me started on the god-saints of Catholicism).

[JoeTheJuggler]

I am amazed how many Jews and Christians don't see this when it stares them in the face in the 1st commandment (don't know enough about Islam to know if they acknowledge the OT). "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Why would this commandment even be neccesary if other gods didn't exist?

Yes, it's obvious that Yahweh was just one of many tribal gods, however. . .
there is the Cecil B. DeMille apology. In The Ten Commandments, they just casually refer to the icons and statues as "gods" and it becomes obvious that they're not talking about deities. (As in, "While you were gone, Moses, these people made a god!")