Are there any nice racists?

[Jontg]

My question is exactly what the title says: in this day and age, are there still perfectly nice, morally upstanding and generally noble people who just happen to be staggeringly racist?
Let me elaborate here. There is, at this moment, a small movement aimed at granting basic human rights to the chimpanzee and other great apes. They argue that, while the ape is considerably less intelligent than a human, it is still sentient and therefore entitled to be treated with the dignity and decency accorded more fortunate hominids. In other words, they believe that the ape is genetically inferior to a human--to wit, a lower order of being--but they still care for them, still feel pity when they're mistreated, and still speak out on their behalf. Thus, they are, in my estimation, Very Nice People.
Then, we have the disturbingly large number of people who seek to have the black man classified as a great ape. As I'm sure most of us have noticed, they're a little less pleasant on the whole. Here, presumed superiority is (and, historically, has almost inevitably been) used as an excuse for hatred, cruelty, and humiliating abuse--abuse which closely resembles the things that the ape rights movement objects to when visited on a chimp.
And that got me to thinking: Where are all the nice racists? I know they used to exist; not every slaveholder was a monster, after all. But where's the good-hearted Klansman who just thinks those silly negroes should stop trying so hard and let us white folks take care of them? Where's the skinhead who joins PETA and beats up on the other skinheads? What, in short, prevents a white supremacist from being a perfectly nice person despite that? I mean, it's a given that they're wrong, but why are they all such asshats?

[gumboot]

My guess would be that the "nice racists" are living amongst the "non-racists" and are smart enough to keep their racism rather under wraps. Most of them are probably your old crazy Great Aunt, who is one heck of a wonderful woman, except she has that odd little tick that makes her go on about "helpin' dem negros".

A nice racist is going to be smart, and, well, nice enough not to want to associate with hate-mongers, bigots, and the general scum we normally associate with racists.

[luchog]

That depends on whether or not you're the target of their racism.

There are certainly polite racists, but good etiquette doesn't make them nice.

[Oliver]

With the appropriate laws in place, every racist is a nice racist.:duck:

[Monketey Ghost]

At hospital I frequently run into kind seeming folks who are quite pleasant, until they feel comfortable saying they hate/dislike X group. Usually starts with, "I'm not a racist but..."

[KingMerv00]

My grandmother was a nice racist.

[my_wan]

I met one once that fit this description. He was also into all kinds of perpetual motion woo to. I forget all his arguments no but he was intolerant of hatred or mistreatment of any kind. His argument basically consisted of a species type designation, so that made it a bit easy take the air out of his argument. My mother knew more than I did about his argument and debated with him the most. She use to get into fights at school in the 50s over people mistreating blacks, but more defending her sister. She fought a lot. This guy I'm talking about actually had called the cops on racist for fear of what they were going to do to some blacks. He was a bit of a misfit anywhere he went. I suspect this was far more common past.

[Eddie Dane]

Everyone who is polite and doesn't behave in threatening manner is "nice".
Joseph Mengele was probably "nice" if you talked to him over dinner.
I hear Ted Bundy was also really "nice".

There are degrees though. My grandmother too, was a nice racist.

[Cavemonster]

If I read correctly, I think the OP is looking for not Racists who are polite, but Racists whose belief in the inferiority of certain groups doesn't manifest in anger towards those supposedly inferior groups but in maybe... protectiveness or other benign ways.

Is that what you're looking for?

I think this view continues to exist, no question, but it'll be hard to catch anyone talking about it with folks who don't already share their view.

[TragicMonkey]

Yeah, my grandparents are nice people, but they come from a different time and range from quite racist to just a little bit racist. Like, one grandpa believed that there'd be a "race war" if "the coloreds" "got a hold of the White House". Of course, he also believes that aliens built Atlantis for the ancient Egyptians, that there are Mayan pyramids embedded in ice in Greenland, that the asteroid belt used to be an inhabited planet, and that the clerk at the bank is an embezzling criminal financial mastermind because she was rude to him once. And he once accused Hillary Clinton of being "a [n-word]" when he saw her on the cover of a magazine in line at the grocery store. How much of it is genuine racism and how much is genuine crazy I can't really tell. He was born in 1915, and there's no changing him now.

The other grandparents seem fine, except now and then they'll say something that's just way out there, racist, but not so much offensive as it is just random. Like my grandmother suddenly accused the Jews of "not caring about landscaping" because she didn't like the flowerbeds at a Jewish nursing home we were driving by at the time. Or she'll say "you know how those Mexicans are, about the nutmeg" and I'll be wondering what? what? what do they say about Mexicans and nutmeg? Is there a stereotype out there for that? Are they supposed to use too much of it? Or does it drive them away, like garlic to vampires?

[Soapy Sam]

Define "racist".
I am profoundly unlikely to marry an African. Is that racism?
If I found myself needing to hire someone and had a choice of a Pole or a Scot, given that all other qualifications were identical, I would probably hire the Scot. Is that racism?
If the flat downstairs was on the market and two young couples came to look at it, one English, one American and I felt I preferred the Americans, is that racist?
If I go to an Asian restaurant, notice that the waiters and cooks all appear to be white and feel cheated- is that racist?
Racism is like any other attitude- it can be suppressed , but tends to surface under stress. If everyone is in work, few white people will get upset if a black man joins the workforce, or is subsequently promoted. They may even take pride in the fact. But when the redundancy slips start appearing and he is the one handing them out- that's when otherwise "decent" people find they are less objective about such matters than they had thought. We are in such a period now. It will be interesting to see how recent changes in attitudes and legislation hold up.

[TX50]

My grandmother was a nice racist.

Mine too. She was born in Africa ("Nyasaland") and stayed there until she
was fourteen. All her life she referred to black people as "natives". :)

[Cainkane1]

You can be sympathetic toward a person and still be a racist. My Grandmother who lived to be 102 was born in 1900 and she was always kind to the African ancestried people in her rural farming community. However she didn't want to sit with them on a bus or eat with them or go to a public restroom where they had been. She had a friend she called Aunt Minnie who was from Haiti whom she referred to as a wise woman. The Haitian woman lived about half a mile up the road from her and every Christmas my Grandmothersent her a sack of pecans and oranges to her.

Aunt Minnie was smart but uneducated. She claimed to have magical powers and the other black people were afraid of her. She was my Grandmothers closest companion and had been all of her very long life. When my Grandmother died Minnie died a month later.

[Dancing David]

My question is exactly what the title says: in this day and age, are there still perfectly nice, morally upstanding and generally noble people who just happen to be staggeringly racist?
Let me elaborate here. There is, at this moment, a small movement aimed at granting basic human rights to the chimpanzee and other great apes. They argue that, while the ape is considerably less intelligent than a human, it is still sentient and therefore entitled to be treated with the dignity and decency accorded more fortunate hominids. In other words, they believe that the ape is genetically inferior to a human--to wit, a lower order of being--but they still care for them, still feel pity when they're mistreated, and still speak out on their behalf. Thus, they are, in my estimation, Very Nice People.
Then, we have the disturbingly large number of people who seek to have the black man classified as a great ape. As I'm sure most of us have noticed, they're a little less pleasant on the whole. Here, presumed superiority is (and, historically, has almost inevitably been) used as an excuse for hatred, cruelty, and humiliating abuse--abuse which closely resembles the things that the ape rights movement objects to when visited on a chimp.
And that got me to thinking: Where are all the nice racists? I know they used to exist; not every slaveholder was a monster, after all. But where's the good-hearted Klansman who just thinks those silly negroes should stop trying so hard and let us white folks take care of them? Where's the skinhead who joins PETA and beats up on the other skinheads? What, in short, prevents a white supremacist from being a perfectly nice person despite that? I mean, it's a given that they're wrong, but why are they all such asshats?


My uncle in law for one, he isa very nice man, he is nice to everyone and would not refuse to help a black person if they were starnded by the side of the road.

But he is very samll town (in the not good ways and the good ways), and he is a racist. It is mostly an anxiety disorder.

[Skeptic]

I know many nice racists. They are usually of the type that hates all Blacks (or Jews or Mexicans or Arabs or whomever) in theory... except for those Black people they happen to personally know (or meet). By a curious coincidence, it just so happens that that those Black people are all right.

I live in Israel, in a town that has both Jews and Arabs. If I had a dollar for every Jew I know who "hates all the dirty Arabs" except for their grocer, phsyician, university professor, bus driver and football team's goalie, I'd... we'll, I'd probably be at least five dollars richer.

Perhaps "Racism" is a wrong term here. "Human nature" -- disliking those different and far away, getting along with those you know who are close by -- is probably the better term.

I don't agree with them, of course, but at least I prefer these folks to their opposite: those who keep speaking in theory about equality and multiculturalism and welcoming differences... until a certain percentage of Black people moves into the neighborhood, in which case they move to a Whiter place.

[tomwaits]

My uncle seems a bit racist, which probably stems from his years as a Chicago cop. Day in and day out getting calls to go handle a robbery, domestic violence, etc and they are all black people makes your world view a bit skewed.

[billydkid]

There are, in fact, very decent people who grew up being inculcated with distorted viewpoints. I remember reading about a white, redneck guy who grew up being extremely racist - holding the view that blacks and some other ethnicities were sub-human. He didn't think that they deserved to be treated badly, particularly, only that they were an inferior version of human. I forget the circumstances, but it came to pass that he had to work cooperatively with a black woman who might have been a typical example of what he considered of "black trash" - mouthy, inner-city type with an attitude. (I apologize for not remembering the details, but this story was his own account of his enlightenment.)

In spite of the huge chasm between them in their social backgrounds, in spite of themselves, they came to discover that they were crazy about each other. His relationship with the woman transformed him fundamentally and he came to feel a deep shame over his previous views. I would hold that most people are fundamentally pretty decent, but many are deeply locked into the view they were indoctrinated with growing up or the views held by their peer groop. While there are certainly evil people who exploit the ignorance of others and there are those who are just so comfortable with their conceits and prejudices that they just can't change, to just assume that all racist people are just bad people as opposed to merely being ignorant people is a mistake. I would also argue that we should be concerned with what people do - whether they harm others - more than with their personal views.

[joobz]

Nice to who?

[Tricky]

I'm sure there are a few, though they pride themselves on being free from racism (http://nicefrance.ca/).

[Foolmewunz]

Yes.

Nice bigots, on the other hand? That's a different story.
Racism is quite often the sum of your neighborhood, environment, culture, upbringing. Bigotry is well thought out and has a determination to it.

[GreNME]

Perhaps "Racism" is a wrong term here. "Human nature" -- disliking those different and far away, getting along with those you know who are close by -- is probably the better term.

I don't agree with them, of course, but at least I prefer these folks to their opposite: those who keep speaking in theory about equality and multiculturalism and welcoming differences... until a certain percentage of Black people moves into the neighborhood, in which case they move to a Whiter place.

With the exception that I think racism is a perfectly fine term to use in the case Skeptic talks about, I pretty much agree with Skeptic's post. I, too, could name plenty of individuals who have a non-rational dislike toward whole ethnic, religious, or cultural groups, except for the ones they know personally. Additionally, the neighborhood I live in now is an example of that "move to a Whiter place" Skeptic describes, where it's been a pretty working-class neighborhood since the 1970's but experienced a large exodus of people self-fulfilling the "property value" claim by all putting their homes on the market and moving elsewhere when some families of darker complexion moved in. That happened long before I ever lived here, and the neighborhood is nice and integrated and the property values are gradually rising, but the effect it (racism) had on the neighborhood is pretty noticeable even if judging from a standard of economics.

Is that nice? I don't know. It's certainly polite, but as luchog pointed out already good etiquette doesn't necessarily make someone nice.

[Eddie Dane]

I just remembered I saw an item on German television about a Neo-Nazi.
He'd been very active in the movement (beating up Turkish people on public transport, amongst other things).
Than his group decided they had a deep spiritual connection with the extreme fringe of Afrikaner. You know, the guys who do military training and don a faux swastika with three arms.

They hooked up with these characters and had a big white, superior love-in.
Then he was dispatched to Zimbabawe (I think) to buy a bunch of AK-47's.

He was to buy the goods from a group of tribesmen and had to hang around their place for about a week.

He fell in love with a black woman and ended up marrying her. He wrote a book about his turnaround and his Nazi friends now want to kill him.

To tie this anecdote in with the thread: he seemed like a really nice guy.:)

[Zelenius]

I think it is very possible to be an otherwise nice, decent individual and still have racist beliefs(especially from the older generation). I've met a couple of racists who were very peace-loving individuals, they were against all kinds of violence, even against the groups they thought to be "inferior" to whites. Racism is so often associated with violence and evil, and indeed it is the cause of so much bloodshed and oppression, that quieter, non-violent racist attitudes tend to be overlooked. Even many people who claim to be very anti-racist may actually be strongly prejudiced, according to some research. There are also, unfortunately, many racists who happen to be intelligent. People can still be very intelligent and be ignorant of certain subjects or have personality quirks. This type of quieter, subtle racism may be more difficult to deal with than the more extreme, violent racism that comes from groups like the KKK or Neo-Nazi groups. Indeed, the nice racists I've known despised both the KKK and neo-Nazis and any other racist groups. Even stranger, this one white racist I knew absolutely loved soul and r&b music, especially by African-American artists.

It must be said that there are a lot of people out there who are extremely anti-racist and egalitarian who are horrible, amoral people in every other way. Being anti-racist, all by itself, doesn't guarantee that a person is a decent, ethical individual, based on my personal experiences.

[Jontg]

If I read correctly, I think the OP is looking for not Racists who are polite, but Racists whose belief in the inferiority of certain groups doesn't manifest in anger towards those supposedly inferior groups but in maybe... protectiveness or other benign ways.

Is that what you're looking for?

I think this view continues to exist, no question, but it'll be hard to catch anyone talking about it with folks who don't already share their view.

Precisely.

[slingblade]

I agree with Cavemonster's take, and would add to it:

Depending on what one means by "nice," if you're a member of the in-group, that person can seem very nice, albeit holding slightly offensive views.

If you're a member of the out-group, even if the person is nice about it, it's probably still offensive, and makes things...less "nice."

:D

[Piscivore]

If I read correctly, I think the OP is looking for not Racists who are polite, but Racists whose belief in the inferiority of certain groups doesn't manifest in anger towards those supposedly inferior groups but in maybe... protectiveness or other benign ways.

Is that what you're looking for?

I think this view continues to exist, no question, but it'll be hard to catch anyone talking about it with folks who don't already share their view.

Yeah, that's pretty much the whole idea behind "White Man's Burden", and it is still alive and thriving today. And with sexism, too.

[linusrichard]

Define "racist".
That's a tall order, but I would define it as the belief that some races are superior or inferior to others.
I am profoundly unlikely to marry an African. Is that racism?
Probably not. Depends on the reason. I am also profoundly unlikely to marry an African, but it is not racism.
If I found myself needing to hire someone and had a choice of a Pole or a Scot, given that all other qualifications were identical, I would probably hire the Scot. Is that racism?
I guess probably, but again, it depends on the reason.
If the flat downstairs was on the market and two young couples came to look at it, one English, one American and I felt I preferred the Americans, is that racist?
Again, it would depend on your motivation. I would guess probably not, but it's only a guess. If the group being discriminated against or for is "Americans," it's hard to find racism, because you have to argue that "American" is in some sense a race.
If I go to an Asian restaurant, notice that the waiters and cooks all appear to be white and feel cheated- is that racist?
Maybe with respect to the waiters. I would guess not with respect to the cooks. But again, it depends.

[CriticalThanking]

I will not name the relative who said that it's ok for blacks to be stopped by the police because it's obvious they don't belong in [99.9% light skinned city]. "Of course the police should proactively ask outsiders their business. Helps cut down on crime, don't you know." This person had never heard the phrase "driving while black."

This person is extremely polite, would not say no to anyone needing help, gives to charities of all types, including those targeted at minorities. I do not think this person believes that any particular group is inferior. Yet this person thinks someone should be stopped by the cops for the color of their skin.

As others have said, we are often products of our upbringing. It is a darn good thing we don't live forever. The only way some things can change is for the holders of the outdated attitudes to die off.

CT - in no hurry for my attitude to die off

[Delvo]

Psychologists lately have said that the results of certain word-association tests reveal that the majority of people have biases that they don't even think of themselves as having; implicit ones rather than explicit. The idea is that a subconscious part of your mind will see a person's face and immediately think of some idea that you don't consciously believe, and then another part responds by saying "Shut up, that's not what I really think". (This happens in a fraction of a second.)

[DarthFishy]

I just remembered I saw an item on German television about a Neo-Nazi.
He'd been very active in the movement (beating up Turkish people on public transport, amongst other things).
Than his group decided they had a deep spiritual connection with the extreme fringe of Afrikaner. You know, the guys who do military training and don a faux swastika with three arms.

They hooked up with these characters and had a big white, superior love-in.
Then he was dispatched to Zimbabawe (I think) to buy a bunch of AK-47's.

He was to buy the goods from a group of tribesmen and had to hang around their place for about a week.

He fell in love with a black woman and ended up marrying her. He wrote a book about his turnaround and his Nazi friends now want to kill him.

To tie this anecdote in with the thread: he seemed like a really nice guy.:)

Just to put the E in JREF I believe you are talking about the Afrikaner Weerstand Beweeging. A group of overweight wannabe Neo-Nazis that can't even ride a horse properly. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/696173.stm) (read the paragraph named Green Underpants)

[Dave Rogers]

There have to be. Someone must be buying the Daily Mail.

Dave

[uruk]

Yeah, that's pretty much the whole idea behind "White Man's Burden", and it is still alive and thriving today. And with sexism, too.

And don't forget about religion.

[LostAngeles]

You mean those nice people who feel my pain for growing up brown and that they're going to lift me up and all those people who're going to kick down the white doors and I should stand alongside them?

Sure, nice. Utterly useless, not worth associating with, but often nice enough.

[quarky]

I prefer mixed race people. I even think they are superior , in general.
(Though, its a bit meaningless, biologicly).

Pure "Aryans" are the creepiest for me.
Followed by cracker-ass-crackers.
And then rap stars.

If republicans are a race, I'm prejudiced about them too.

I'm actually not sure if I even like humans much.

[billydkid]

Also, I have worked with people at times who could only be called racist, but what I found with some of them is that their racism seemed to have more to do with cultural differences than with the race of the people involved. What I found was that some of these people had a fairly intense dislike of some American's of African descent that did not translate to dislike for Africans who actually came from Africa or for Blacks who came from a similar background as themselves - in this case a rural American background. It had more to do with what was perceived as the typical, rude/crude/aggressive inner city background of some people. I might add that I have also known some black people (and I think that is a stupid way to describe people, but I don't know what else to use) who were just as uncomfortable with that inner city type of attitude and felt embarassed by it. I guess what I am saying is that for many people the issue is really cultural as much as it is about race.

[billydkid]

I prefer mixed race people. I even think they are superior , in general.
(Though, its a bit meaningless, biologicly).

Pure "Aryans" are the creepiest for me.
Followed by cracker-ass-crackers.
And then rap stars.

If republicans are a race, I'm prejudiced about them too.

I'm actually not sure if I even like humans much.
So it's sort of alright to dislike some people based on their ethnicity because they happen to share it with other people who have done awful things? That would pretty much cover nearly everybody wouldn't it? But I guess, like you said, you're not that fond of humans in general.

[Skwinty]

Try living in Zimbabwe as a white person, experience tribalism and then re assess your feelings about racism.

[Cainkane1]

Pure "Aryans" are the creepiest for me.

You dislike Tibetans?

[Matthew Best]

Try living in Zimbabwe as a white person, experience tribalism and then re assess your feelings about racism.

Given that that's not going to happen, why don't you explain in what way such an experience would cause me to re-assess my feelings about racism?

[sphenisc]

I've Never Met a Nice South African

[Safe-Keeper]

I wonder about this too. Anyone can point to someone worse and go "look at him, why do you yell at me when he's even worse", but it accomplishes nothing as all you're really doing is try to talk your way out of it.

[Skwinty]

Given that that's not going to happen, why don't you explain in what way such an experience would cause me to re-assess my feelings about racism?

My point is that racism is often depicted as a one way street. White to Black. Having lived in Africa all my life, I can say that racism is a common human affliction. Black's can often be more racist to other black tribes than to whites, or than whites are to blacks.

It's fine to live in a country where whites are the majority, then yes the white to black racism is more apparent.
In Africa the situation is reversed. Tribalism is rife and equates to racism.

Black people are often murdered for a cellphone or necklaced by black people for having a different opinion.
Necklacing, if you don't know, is the act of have a tyre placed over your neck and upper torso, filled with gasoline and ignited. Then hordes of people dance and sing while you suffer a slow and painful death. Now , I dont think a black has ever done that to a white, but they have sure done to their own kind, many, many times.

Winnie Mandela has often in the past exorted the people with " With our matches and tyres we will liberate this country" Yet they never did that to the whites.

Look at the recent zenophobic attacks recently in South Africa, where any black person of a different tribe and African countries have been murdered and burnt to death by their own black brothers.

Now, I would rather be treated badly and called derogatory names than suffer this kind of fate.

My personal feeling is that we are all part of the human race

[LostAngeles]

I prefer mixed race people. I even think they are superior , in general.
(Though, its a bit meaningless, biologicly).


Oh, I forgot. This **** right here too.

Dating me isn't going to educate your ass on new cultures and I am a person, not a fetish.

[Skwinty]

I've Never Met a Nice South African

Not even a black one?

[Piscivore]

You mean those nice people who feel my pain for growing up brown and that they're going to lift me up and all those people who're going to kick down the white doors and I should stand alongside them?

Sure, nice. Utterly useless, not worth associating with, but often nice enough.

Yep, those are the ones I meant.

[Piscivore]

BTW, it's good to see you around, LA.

[quarky]

So it's sort of alright to dislike some people based on their ethnicity because they happen to share it with other people who have done awful things? That would pretty much cover nearly everybody wouldn't it? But I guess, like you said, you're not that fond of humans in general.

well,

The word "racist", at least in the U.S., usually means "I don't like darkies".

I'm working a different angle; mostly tongue in cheek, btw, to point this out.
White supremacists, so far, are my least favorite. Frankly, I don't know any black supremacists, though I'm sure they exist.

This thread was sort of d.o.a., imho. I'm sure that some lynchings were done with more respect than others. Its that sort of question we're answering.
I suppose I'll be labeled as a racist now, but the label won't fit.

Lost Angeles? Not sure what you're saying, but I don't date anymore.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You know what, yes. There was a time that racism was the norm and as pervasive as the air. It wasn't the individual, it was the society. By the exact same token, if these people had happened to be born at a time when racism was not the norm, they would not have been racists.

I know older people who were raised at a time when Jews, blacks, immigrants, Latinos, Asians, homosexuals were marginalized and hated. They happen to be great people. It's not their fault.

As for people of my age or somewhat older who are racists but harmless and otherwise perfectly ok, no one comes to mind. It's not impossible, though.

[BPSCG]

There are people on this forum who have told me I am a racist.

There are also people on this forum who have told me I am a nice person.

They are both wrong.

[Oliver]

The word "racist", at least in the U.S., usually means "I don't like darkies".


Or anything french.:duck: