I am one of those who experiences seeing ghosts and their past environment

[VisionFromFeeling]

Split from: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=135642I am one of those who experiences seeing ghosts and their past environment and being able to speak with them. In fact I am starting an investigations group where me and a few others will visit historical sites and try to record any kind of effect of the presence of ghosts. From my point of view, this is intended entirely for fun and entertainment value and not as a scientific investigation.

I have not looked into the instruments that some ghost investigations groups use at haunted sites so I can not say what kind of instrumental readings (electromagnetic fluctuations or other) would constitute evidence for the presence of some ghostly phenomenon. However as the "psychic medium" I will attempt to interview the ghosts to obtain clues that can be linked to the actual persons of that site. Such as names, dates, and events.

[skeen]

Seeing ghosts in their past environment, eh? Considering everyone on earth makes up just 1% of all the people that have ever lived, your vision must be plagued by these people. Additionally, I am interested to know in what stage of evolution were we human enough to have ghosts remain after us?

The ferjicity is strong in this one.

[VisionFromFeeling]

I am very skeptical toward the instrumental readings taken by the popular ghost investigations groups. Scientists are usually not present to verify the credibility of such material obtained from the sites, and what's to say that some or much of it hasn't been tampered with, to produce an interesting show? Furthermore, how do we know what the instrumental readings in fact do represent? Just because there is a significant reading in the change of the temperature why on earth would that signify a ghost? Readings per se are not evidence of ghosts.

I am actually studying to specialize in optical instruments and would like to take a good close look at these instruments and their readings.

Often many experiences that take place in haunted sites are difficult to record, to collect evidence for, or to present to others, such as feeling that some invisible presence grabs your arm, pushes you, or pulls your hair, feelings and sensations you get in haunted sites, or if you hear a voice in your mind. Still, haunted sites are often said to produce physical evidence that can be caught on film, sound recording, or other instrumental readings. It is still then a matter of interpretation as to what the material represents.

To me personally, one form of evidence is if I am able to produce facts from speaking with the ghosts, facts that can then be checked. If I produce detailed information that was never public knowledge and am able to contact a single person who is in possession of that knowledge and who can verify that the information was accurate and that it was not known to me prior, then that would be interesting. But not evidence.

What do you think? How would you prove the existence of a ghost?

I might sound ambivalent here, since I claim to hear, see and feel ghosts very clearly yet I hopefully sound like one of the biggest skeptics. Yes, both.

[VisionFromFeeling]

skeen, in my experience most people do not remain as ghosts. In my experience ghosts are either victims of a terrible fate, perpetrators, or others with unfinished business such as having something urgent to say to the world. So yes, ghosts are generally not a fun bunch. Not only do I see them, but I feel what they feel. I was very happy to move away from Europe which is full of old and bad history, and to America which for most part is a clean slate.

Some places are to me dense in ghosts, such as old cities, or battle sites for example. And then, in many other places where probably nothing bad ever happened I sense no ghosts.

I see the ghosts of animals equally well as those of humans, so it is not a question of "when did humans become human enough to become ghosts?" Cats, dogs, dinosaurs...

[VisionFromFeeling]

And I realize that my perceptions of ghosts might of course not be part of reality at all, and I am obliged to be aware of that possibility. Still, they are for most part not something that bothers me so there is no reason for concern. I have never come across a ghostly experience that seemed implausible when checked against the facts, and very often I've perceived ghosts in ways where I've obtained information that I shouldn't have known...

I've recently become interested in investigating and experiencing more. Throughout a lifetime of experiencing ghosts, I've never actively sought out visiting haunted sites, in fact I've tried to stay as far away from them as possible! But sometime in this Spring, me and a friend will visit our first haunted site the battleship USS North Carolina (http://www.battleshipnc.com/page1.php). I will be interested in finding out what kind of things I perceive. We will videotape our visit and it will be made available (for free of course) on the internet.

[VisionFromFeeling]

Cainkane1:
and in the presence of scientistsNothing stays around in the presence of scientists! It all goes away.

[jhunter1163]

If I produce detailed information that was never public knowledge and am able to contact a single person who is in possession of that knowledge and who can verify that the information was accurate and that it was not known to me prior, then that would be interesting. But not evidence.

I would need it taken a step farther. If you could produce information that no one living knew that could subsequently be confirmed (like the location of a lost diary, for example), then you'd have something quite interesting and worthy of serious study. As long as anyone living has the information you're seeking, you can't 100% rule out collusion, cold reading, etc.

[skeen]

There's plenty of reason for concern, I can assure you of that.

[VisionFromFeeling]

skeen:
There's plenty of reason for concern, I can assure you of that. No there isn't. If my ghostly perceptions showed implausibility in comparison with possible past events I would have a reason for concern. The ghostly perceptions are not random images, they show great detail and correlation to possible people, places, and events of the past. Also I've many times had ghostly perceptions that give me information that was later found to be accurate, information that I shouldn't have known... Like crime scenes, or historical sites. I'm not concerned. I'm not saying that I have proof that my ghostly perceptions are reality based, I'm just saying that they are no reason for concern.

[VisionFromFeeling]

Like when we drove past what was a battle site in the Revolutionary War. I am not from around here and I wouldn't have known to expect that the war took place there. There are no signs along the road, and the area itself blends in perfectly with the several miles of same looking forest beside the road. But when we were driving by I saw the American soldiers wearing blue jackets that did not protect well from the cold and rain, and the British soldiers in red jackets. I saw it very clearly, and described it to my friend who said that this was where it happened. How would I have known, had I not seen it in my ghostly perception.

By the way I've spoken with Benjamin Franklin. There's something to tease all of you to pieces. ;)

[Uncayimmy]

skeen:
No there isn't. If my ghostly perceptions showed implausibility in comparison with possible past events I would have a reason for concern. The ghostly perceptions are not random images, they show great detail and correlation to possible people, places, and events of the past. Also I've many times had ghostly perceptions that give me information that was later found to be accurate, information that I shouldn't have known... Like crime scenes, or historical sites. I'm not concerned. I'm not saying that I have proof that my ghostly perceptions are reality based, I'm just saying that they are no reason for concern.

Please don't lie. There is plenty of reason for concern considering the stories you have told in another thread. Either you are lying or you are experiencing something that is very much a cause for concern. The aforementioned thread is here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4247220#post4247220

As for the ghosts of offenders, I am almost as scared of these as if I had to face them in life. Ghosts see me and can attack. Good thing is I've developed a way of speaking to them and can often talk them into leaving.

The girl started pushing on me with all her might, "Get out of my house!" And you know what? I was experiencing an actual physical push. I was holding on to the edge of my seat tightly not to fall off the chair.

This man actually even appeared in my dreams. It was exactly like Terror on Elm Street. I would fall asleep, and wake up fully conscious and aware of my surroundings as real as here but in the dream world in a lucid dream. This very same man was there, leaning over me. I'm afraid it's not a nice story, he tried to murder me in many ways. Grabbed my throat and choked me until my neck was broken and as I would have died I woke up from the dream and could still feel it and felt his presence in the room. Once I fell asleep again, he would throw me out the window, and I'd "die" and wake up again. I tried to stay awake but he put his hands on my head and pushed and I felt an actual physical pressure and pain while awake.

Your stories, at least, offer some testability. If you can actually interact with ghosts, it should be very easy to prove they are there. That's assuming they are willing to cooperate with you.

[VisionFromFeeling]

UncaYimmy,
Please don't lie. There is plenty of reason for concern considering the stories you have told in another thread. Either you are lying or you are experiencing something that is very much a cause for concern. I am not concerned. Unless I travel to some seriously haunted sites. The only ghost around where I live is the Native American chief who sometimes asks me to leave my boyfriend's land, but then I tell him that I'm just a poor girl with nowhere else to go, and he sympathizes with that. :p I can handle 'em.
Your stories, at least, offer some testability. If you can actually interact with ghosts, it should be very easy to prove they are there. That's assuming they are willing to cooperate with you. That's right. And I want to try that by visiting haunted sites and seeing what kind of information I can get from talking with them. They are often quite talkative. :)

[Denver]

Like when we drove past what was a battle site in the Revolutionary War. I am not from around here and I wouldn't have known to expect that the war took place there. There are no signs along the road, and the area itself blends in perfectly with the several miles of same looking forest beside the road. But when we were driving by I saw the American soldiers wearing blue jackets that did not protect well from the cold and rain, and the British soldiers in red jackets. I saw it very clearly, and described it to my friend who said that this was where it happened. How would I have known, had I not seen it in my ghostly perception...


Which would seem a more reasonable explanation: you have special ability, and ghosts exist, and they (or images thereof) project themselves beyond all known science, to you and people with your special abilities??

Or that you saw it on tv sometime in the past, and were just using your imagination?

[jhunter1163]

OK. Suppose you ask Ben, next time you talk to him, if he's left any letters or anything anywhere that hasn't been discovered. If he has, and you find it, then you've got a thing that makes you go hmmmm, as they say. If not, well...

[Jonquill]

Anita could be blindfolded and driven to an unknown place which she would identify by what the ghosts there told her, then the test doesn't have to involve finding out something that no living person knows.

[Jonquill]

She could rate how strongly the ghosts manifested from 1-5 :)

[jhunter1163]

Anita could be blindfolded and driven to an unknown place which she would identify by what the ghosts there told her, then the test doesn't have to involve finding out something that no living person knows.

She could just claim there were no ghosts there.

If she's in contact with ghosts, it should be easy for her to get one of them to make a testable statement, like "I hid a box of love letters between the floor joists in the upstairs bedroom in my house." Then you'd go take a look.

[VisionFromFeeling]

Jonquill,
Anita could be blindfolded and driven to an unknown place which she would identify by what the ghosts there told her, then the test doesn't have to involve finding out something that no living person knows. I would definitely try such a test. If anyone wants to pick me up and blindfold me and drive me to an unknown location and put me in a dark room in a haunted house... hm... :blush: No seriously I would try such a paranormal test. Take me to a supposedly haunted site, or, ehm... I might get scared. But for the sake of science, let me do it. And I will talk to the ghosts and tell you what happened there.

I'm up for it!

[skeen]

She has not fully understood my question though. As I said, we're merely 1% of the humans that have ever existed. She can see other species, too. Meaning that 1% is actually far, far, far, far less than all the possible beings she should be able to see.

Literally billions of those beings died in some kind of a tragedy - we're talking about maybe hundreds of billions of possible ghosts here. That she is seeing an extremely recent species (humans), which have come about in an extremely recent time mostly, makes no sense whatsoever.

She should be able to see even more of our ancestors on the evolutionary scale, by literally hundreds of times more in numbers. And that's just humans and our ancestors. You then have the ancestors of every species that has ever existed.

Breach of Rule 12 removed.

[Farencue]

Jonquill,
I would definitely try such a test. If anyone wants to pick me up and blindfold me and drive me to an unknown location and put me in a dark room in a haunted house... hm... :blush: No seriously I would try such a paranormal test. Take me to a supposedly haunted site, or, ehm... I might get scared. But for the sake of science, let me do it. And I will talk to the ghosts and tell you what happened there.

I'm up for it!


Yay! Another 63 pages of absolute ******* from everyones favourite white dwarf star person!
Now, who is going to go first in organising something for the sake of science? Ashles?

[VisionFromFeeling]

No, I mean it! Take me to a haunted location!

[Farencue]

No, I mean it! Take me to a haunted location!

Sad, very sad.

[skeen]

No, I mean it! Take me to a haunted location!
Erm, shouldn't every location be haunted? Stacking up the numbers, there should be trillions of beings you should be able to see. You talk about "battle sites", but they have nothing on the amount of creatures, of the amount of species, that have ever existed in all of the earths history, that have died some kind of a tragic death in any one place.

You should be able to provide some highly, highly compelling information to the field of biology. Hell, you could even tell us what colours dinosaurs really were! You could even resurrect ancient languages. You've literally opened up the floodgates for millions of mountains of evidence that you could present to convince us. You should have no problem convincing anyone now!

You could describe literally billions of species that we will never be able to discover. Really Anita, the numbers are staggering. I'm excited!

[arthwollipot]

Cainkane1:
Nothing stays around in the presence of scientists! It all goes away.Yes, terribly inconvenient that. :rolleyes:

[Farencue]

I would like to preface these questions by saying that I am a hardened skeptic and I don't believe in ghosts or an after-life. A relative of mine really wants to know the answers to these questions and I don't know what a good answer would be for either of them.


1. What would it take to convince you that ghosts exist?


2. What would constitute good evidence for proving ghosts exist?



Thanks,
Josh

Oh, hi Josh, didnt see you there as the OP, Anita elbowed me out of the way in the rush to get to this thread to answer your question, or talk about herself or something.
Have you asked your relative what it would take to convince them?
Are they skeptical about ghosts?

[Ragnarok]

As I said, we're merely 1% of the humans that have ever existed.

Do you have a cite for this fact, skeen?

[Ravenwood]

I'm curious what revolutionary battle this was, because the blue wool uniform coat was very uncommon. Interestingly enough, made of the same style as the british coat, so I'm not sure why she thought it did not protect against the cold as well. Civilian coats, Hunting shirts & british coats died brown with coffee was more the norm. I also noticed no reference to headgear, as some of the different units had some distinctive headgear that did not look like tricornes. Same kind of misconception people have about the confederate army wearing grey uniforms & all in Kepis, thanks to Hollywood...

[Miss_Kitt]

Anita -- What did Ben Franklin sound like? That is, did he sound like someone from Boston? From Virginia? From New York? From London? From India? And where did you see him--he was a well-travelled gent. And what his apparent age as an apparition?

[Miss_Kitt]

Hey, I have a quickie test for seeing Dinosaur ghosts!! I assume that you can see the ghost affiliated with one of its bones? Then you should be able to do a description of the creature from which it came. A box of legbone pieces, labelled only with numbers; you write down a description of the spiritual appearance of the owner of each; and then the paleontologist compares it with his list of what kind of dinosaur each actually came from.

If you can identify even something as basic as 4-legged versus 2-legged, and carnivorous versus herbivorous, in a majority of cases from a single small bone leg sample, I'd be very impressed.

And, just think! No more random hunting to find where fossils are in the Black Hills! Just have Anita "Dances with Dinos" I. join your expedition and dig where she says to. This will save a lot of time and money in locating specimens.

She may have to change her major...

Paleontologically yours, Miss Kitt

[LONGTABBER PE]

No, I mean it! Take me to a haunted location!

Let me guess

You will have a "Graveyard Gloria" moment?

( Porky's I for all the old timers)

[nathan]

I see the ghosts of animals equally well as those of humans, so it is not a question of "when did humans become human enough to become ghosts?" Cats, dogs, dinosaurs...
Jolly good, where were you when you encountered a dinosaur ghost, did you recognize the dinosaur species?

[Darat]

I have issued a number of infractions for breaches of Rule 12 and moved a number of posts to AAH. It would appear that some Members have forgotten their Membership Agreement, if you cannot address the argument/claim etc. made do not resort to attacking the person.

[Akhenaten]

Wrong thread. oops.

[TX50]

Anita -- What did Ben Franklin sound like? That is, did he sound like someone from Boston? From Virginia? From New York? From London? From India? And where did you see him--he was a well-travelled gent. And what his apparent age as an apparition?

And did he try to seduce you?

Please contact the ghost of Pierre de Fermat and ask him what his "truly
marvelous proof" is.

[Belz...]

I am one of those who experiences seeing ghosts

No, you're not.

[Moochie]

Erm, shouldn't every location be haunted? Stacking up the numbers, there should be trillions of beings you should be able to see. You talk about "battle sites", but they have nothing on the amount of creatures, of the amount of species, that have ever existed in all of the earths history, that have died some kind of a tragic death in any one place.

You should be able to provide some highly, highly compelling information to the field of biology. Hell, you could even tell us what colours dinosaurs really were! You could even resurrect ancient languages. You've literally opened up the floodgates for millions of mountains of evidence that you could present to convince us. You should have no problem convincing anyone now!

You could describe literally billions of species that we will never be able to discover. Really Anita, the numbers are staggering. I'm excited!

Exactly. The dead are all around us. We cannot go where there has been no death on this planet. Most if not all of us have been where someone has died, or where many someones have died. Some of us live in houses where people and/or animals have died. I have lived in at least two such places where I knew someone had died. In one, I had known the deceased.

Anita, or whoever you are today, I call shenanigans! :D


M.

[Jeff Corey]

I'm curious what revolutionary battle this was, because the blue wool uniform coat was very uncommon. Interestingly enough, made of the same style as the british coat, so I'm not sure why she thought it did not protect against the cold as well. Civilian coats, Hunting shirts & british coats died brown with coffee was more the norm. I also noticed no reference to headgear, as some of the different units had some distinctive headgear that did not look like tricornes. Same kind of misconception people have about the confederate army wearing grey uniforms & all in Kepis, thanks to Hollywood...

My thought, also. Maybe she got confused with the Civil War battles at Bentonville or Plymouth. There were a lot of blue uniforms there.
Or maybe she just made it up.

[desertgal]

I have never come across a ghostly experience that seemed implausible when checked against the facts...

Like when we drove past what was a battle site in the Revolutionary War. I am not from around here and I wouldn't have known to expect that the war took place there. There are no signs along the road, and the area itself blends in perfectly with the several miles of same looking forest beside the road. But when we were driving by I saw the American soldiers wearing blue jackets that did not protect well from the cold and rain, and the British soldiers in red jackets. I saw it very clearly, and described it to my friend who said that this was where it happened.

Where what happened? What battle was it? What state were you in? Nearest town? It would not be difficult to check your experience against actual facts.

How would I have known, had I not seen it in my ghostly perception.

"My friend said" is not verification that you 'knew' anything. Kindly note, as Ravenwood pointed out, that the "blue coats" are an indication that your experience was nothing more than your usual overactive imagination, and you are not describing anything that took place in reality. As well, most Revolutionary and Civil War battlefields are clearly marked as places of historical interest.

I was very happy to move away from Europe which is full of old and bad history, and to America which for most part is a clean slate.

Which America do you live in? The South is rich in history, both good and 'old and bad'.

[desertgal]

My thought, also. Maybe she got confused with the Civil War battles at Bentonville or Plymouth. There were a lot of blue uniforms there.

But no British soldiers in red jackets, so we have to go with...

Or maybe she just made it up.

[skeen]

There's a trillion ways she could prove this. But then, the same was true of her other ability. She'll just say something like, "The soldier looked tired, he must have walked hundreds of miles", or she'll come up with some elaborate story the soldier told her, etc.

Oh, there will have been a shift in the psychic vibrational energies which projected his spirit in that location, or some other somesuch. It will never end.

[Locknar]

Jonquill,
I would definitely try such a test. If anyone wants to pick me up and blindfold me and drive me to an unknown location and put me in a dark room in a haunted house... hm... :blush: No seriously I would try such a paranormal test. Take me to a supposedly haunted site, or, ehm... I might get scared. But for the sake of science, let me do it. And I will talk to the ghosts and tell you what happened there.

I'm up for it!I expect you'll make the same stunning progress testing your ghost claims as you have in testing your Vibrational Algebra TM and Vibrational Vision TM claims.

[Silly Green Monkey]

I was very happy to move away from Europe which is full of old and bad history, and to America which for most part is a clean slate.

Doesn't this seem pretty racist to you? America has been settled for thirteen thousand years, by humans, who killed each other in pretty horrific ways. This was in no way a paradise where humans lived in harmony with nature and each other, we were pretty creative with it. Only a Eurocentric view would see America as untouched.

[Moochie]

Doesn't this seem pretty racist to you? America has been settled for thirteen thousand years, by humans, who killed each other in pretty horrific ways. This was in no way a paradise where humans lived in harmony with nature and each other, we were pretty creative with it. Only a Eurocentric view would see America as untouched.

Yeah, the Brits considered Australia "terra nullius" when they took over, blithely ignoring the fact that the land had been occupied for some 40,000 years.


M.

[skeen]

I don't even know why she would make such a claim. If she can see as far back as dinosaurs, then there's been hundreds of millions of years of death, spanning millions of species, and trillions of ancestors.

Human beings themselves pale in comparison to all the possible ghosts she could see. Why is she even talking about human history? Humans would be a spec in the cloud of ghosts she should be able to see.

We then also have to take into account countries shifting, etc. Her claim is far bigger than she realizes. She's very silly.

And considering that only recently we have discovered medicine, almost everyone before us died of an unfortunate, and tragic death.

Anita has taken a kind of "TV" view to seeing ghosts. She has clearly failed to comprehend the insanely huge amount of ghosts she should be able to see, and has clearly failed to take into account evolution, and the ludicrously huge amount of ancestors she should be able to see, most of species we will we never know even existed.

I am utterly astounded by how ridiculous her claims are. And to think, this coming from someone who wants to make some kind of a reputation for herself; all of this is just a Google search away. Yikes!

[quarky]

Sometimes I can see a speck of dust on my own eyeball.

[ksbluesfan]

I've spoken with Benjamin Franklin too. Just not that Benjamin Franklin.

[Darat]

I have yet again had to issue infractions and move posts to AAH. Let me remind participants of two rules from your Membership Agreement:

11. Posts must be on topic to the thread subject. On this Forum thread drift is expected but must follow from the discussion.
12. “Attack the argument, not the arguer." Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking the arguer.

Further breaches of your Membership Agreement will result in further Mod action which will probably mean suspension.

[GeeMack]

So the poster's argument is that she sees and communicates with ghosts. I will attack the argument directly without even considering the arguer.

Seeing and communicating with ghosts can be easily explained as hallucinations and/or delusions. We are all pretty sure that there has never been any compelling, non contradicting, scientifically valid evidence supporting the existence of ghosts. At least none has ever been presented in any of these forums. Yet there is very much evidence in the world of science that shows hallucinations and delusions do exist. A legitimate scientist claiming that someone sees and communicates with ghosts, if he felt his conjecture was sound and was not explainable by delusions or hallucinations, would take steps to eliminate those as possibilities.

Delusions and the kinds of mental illnesses that cause hallucinations are identifiable by properly trained scientists and mental health professionals. There are also common environmental causes of hallucinations which can be determined scientifically. A very direct approach would be to find out if the seeing and communicating with ghosts may be the result of hallucinations and/or delusions, the very mundane, commonly occurring possibilities. After all, we know methods of checking for them. Then pursue the issue further once those explanations are taken off the table.

And since that angle has apparently not been pursued with regards to the claim made in the OP, I doubt there's any veracity to the argument that she sees or communicates with ghosts.

[jmcvann]

Unless I travel to some seriously haunted sites.

Can you define the difference between someplace "seriously haunted" and "not-so-seriously haunted"? It seems to me that just about everyplace should be haunted. Over time, people have died nearly everywhere. Does everyone become a ghost? And do ghosts stay in one place, or at least in a general area? Or do they travel around?

[Ashles]

I do not understand why we cannot reference the other thread in which this same poster makes equally outlandish claims which also start out as though there will be some form of organised testing and which turned out to be nothing of the sort.

If a new poster joined and made the same claims as the OP in this thread then we would probably have a different view and take the claim more at face value.
But it is very difficult to do this when the OP is the same one who has spent over 60 pages elsewhere making increasingly untestable claims. This can be seen as an extension of that other claim.

Is it not considered relevant to point out reasons that we might not consider this thread to be a genuine claim of ability?

[Jeff Corey]

I think it is. The very variety of outlandish claims is, in fact, evidence.

[VisionFromFeeling]

Miss Kitt,
Anita -- What did Ben Franklin sound like? That is, did he sound like someone from Boston? From Virginia? From New York? From London? From India? And where did you see him--he was a well-travelled gent. And what his apparent age as an apparition? I was watching a tv documentary that showed some of the remaining authentic buildings from the time of the Founding Fathers, and suddenly perceived very clearly the image of a man from that time in his bedroom. He had a very peculiar body shape that I have never seen a man have today. He was shorter than the average men today but as wide as men today, and his legs were as short as a boy younger than his teens. He seemed to be in his mid or upper 30's. He had very long hair that had probably never been cut. The hair was worn on the sides and longest in the middle, brown and naturally wavy, and thinning on the top of the head. The hair was totally unwashed, but that seemed ok somehow.

He was wearing a dark brown velvet suit, a tight short jacket and matching short pants that are knee-long. White long socks covered the legs below the knee, and black small looking shoes with short heels. His feet were smaller than what men typically have today. He had very wide hips and very wide shoulders considering his short height, and the body proportions looked very peculiar compared to men today.

In the image I had of him in his bedroom, the floors were made of wooden planks that were not perfectly level like boards today. The walls were wood also. There was a large bed to the left of the image, and a window to the far left-side wall. The door was on the wall in front, and a desk to the right. There were thin white curtains in front of the window, and I could perceive what was outside the window in the yard. The lighting was dim although it was day, since there were of course no electrical lights.

What struck me the most was his personality and character, I can feel that when I see a person whether the person is alive or a ghostly image. Two words describe him perfectly: elegant and graceful. There are no men quite like that today, I am sure. I perceived that their idea of manly was not the assertiveness and strength that we expect of men today in our society, but men were expected to behave in manners that were sophisticated and graceful. And he was that. I was quite taken by him.

He saw me and I saw him. That is usually the case with ghosts. What ever ghosts are, it is an image in which I see the image of a person from the past and we can see each other and talk to each other. That's what I perceive. I realized that it was Founding Father Benjamin Franklin.

At one point he commented on my clothes, you see, I was wearing pants. He said that he would find one of the younger ladies that live near him to bring me some proper clothes, with which he meant a long dress, and that the girl would help me put my hair up too. I thanked him for that, and explained that I am from his future and that women wear pants in the future.

Mr. Franklin has received somewhat of a reputation as a womanizer in today's historical literature, and based on what I perceived I would like to correct that. I believe that the women were quite taken by him, I know I was. ;) There was something absolutely beautiful about him that I've never come across in a man today. Heck, I would've married him had I lived then.

He was not very talkative so I asked him some questions. I knew that he traveled quite a bit to Europe so I asked him about that. I then saw an image of him in a large room in a sail ship, he was seated by a desk and writing letters back to America. I saw his beautiful handwriting. He told me that you can have the best arguments in writing, and that when you want to insult someone you never say it out right, and his words were exactly, that "it is implied". He explained that when you write, you explain carefully your position and you make the reader agree with you, even when it is that you insult someone. You always keep a positive manner in writing, and he explained to me how you begin and end a letter according to proper standards.

I asked him what he would like to say to America of the future. He thought for a little bit, then said, that although they (Founding Fathers, politicians) had many meetings together, it was not always all work and serious, that they did have fun and laugh together too.

Well, that's Benjamin Franklin. As I saw it. I can't say that it's true. But that's my experience.

[VisionFromFeeling]

nathan,
Jolly good, where were you when you encountered a dinosaur ghost, did you recognize the dinosaur species? I've perceived dinosaurs from a distance, and also I've seen them around here in North Carolina. There is a place in the woods where I see the nesting site of a large group of iguana-looking lizards that are black and yellow.

TX50,
And did he try to seduce you?Not at all. He was quite courteous. It was rather I who was quite taken by him. I strongly suspect that he was not a womanizer in the way in which he is portrayed today, I really think that women were quite charmed by him actually! Another thing, he felt more British than American, and his voice was very soft and with a British accent and I do like the way they pronounced their words back then.

[lionking]

Do you have a cite for this fact, skeen?

FWIW, the most accepted figure is that 6% of all people are living now, not 1%, but the arguments are fairly flimsy.

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx

[Jeff Corey]

We still need Past Life Time Shares (TM), though. Who wants a past life as a stinking peasant with buboes all over.
Last week, I and the Trouble took a trip with Past Life Time Share(TM). We got to talk with Benjy Franklin and Rasputin. It was quite edifying and a ton of laffs. Benjy wore his mouse ears and silly codpiece, while Rasputin enthralled the company with tales of his derring-do on the high seas.

[Senex]

Anita, I'm uncertain about you at this moment. I believed in your sincerity when you first posted you believed you had special visual ability concerning specific health and chemical environments. Now you believe you can see ghosts? My first instinct is to think you are trying to lay some sort of groundwork for cheating people in the future. However, posting on this site where your replies are not only unsupported but in need of moderation in order to be civil doesn't seem to me to be the best place to post.

I believe you are sincere but I believe you lost your way. If you quit the internet for a month and were no longer affected by the feedback of the internet would you be the same person? My theory is that you have an unhealthy addiction to internet feedback. I know someone you don't know who recommends pulling the internet plug for a month or two won't make you do so -- but if others in your life say the same thing maybe there is something to going off-line for a while.

My best wishes

[Uncayimmy]

Yeah, this is a "flavor of the week" scam and anyone who doesnt see and acknowledge that at this point may themselves be "delusional"

Its been a scam from day 1

Those of us paying attention have seen similar stories since she's been here. It's nothing new. I'll tell you what would be new. Seeing Anita try to turn a profit from the time she has spent being ridiculed by skeptics. You know, the ones who wouldn't even pay her a dime for a cup of coffee. Or maybe her seeing pimping herself on the woo sites. That would be new.

Then your claims of "Scam! Scam!" wouldn't seem quite so hollow.

[Jeff Corey]

I agree. Not a scam. Somethings else, but I won't speculate.

[Tricky]

It appears that some of you may have missed this warning by Darat. Please pay attention this time. Disagreeing with someone is no excuse for becoming insulting. See if you can channel your incredulity into less agressive paths, okay?
I have yet again had to issue infractions and move posts to AAH. Let me remind participants of two rules from your Membership Agreement:

11. Posts must be on topic to the thread subject. On this Forum thread drift is expected but must follow from the discussion.
12. “Attack the argument, not the arguer." Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking the arguer.

Further breaches of your Membership Agreement will result in further Mod action which will probably mean suspension.

[Jeff Corey]

Is it something I said. Gevalt!

[arthwollipot]

Miss Kitt,
I was watching a tv documentary that showed some of the remaining authentic buildings from the time of the Founding Fathers, and suddenly perceived very clearly the image of a man from that time in his bedroom. He had a very peculiar body shape that I have never seen a man have today. He was shorter than the average men today but as wide as men today, and his legs were as short as a boy younger than his teens. He seemed to be in his mid or upper 30's. He had very long hair that had probably never been cut. The hair was worn on the sides and longest in the middle, brown and naturally wavy, and thinning on the top of the head. The hair was totally unwashed, but that seemed ok somehow.

He was wearing a dark brown velvet suit, a tight short jacket and matching short pants that are knee-long. White long socks covered the legs below the knee, and black small looking shoes with short heels. His feet were smaller than what men typically have today. He had very wide hips and very wide shoulders considering his short height, and the body proportions looked very peculiar compared to men today.That's a remarkably accurate description of a fairly common caricature (http://parrottalkback.tripod.com/howtowashashowercurtain/BenFranklinVsKoolAid.jpg).

Is this a case of the Greys again?

[Ravenwood]

Not to mention a totally inaccurate description of a ship of the period. In the 1700's there would be no large room with a desk on board, let alone for a passenger. Even the captain's cabins on board those vessels were small affairs...(Spacious compared to the common seaman, who had 18" to sling a hammock in...)
Edit to add: I looked it up & average cabins in period were 5'9" by 4' spacious passenger cabins indeed...

[Uncayimmy]

Arthwollipot's link is not showing the image, so here's another:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenecessityforruins/3258602342/

[Miss_Kitt]

Miss Kitt,
I was watching a tv documentary that showed some of the remaining authentic buildings from the time of the Founding Fathers, and suddenly perceived very clearly the image of a man from that time in his bedroom....There were thin white curtains in front of the window, and I could perceive what was outside the window in the yard. The lighting was dim although it was day, since there were of course no electrical lights.

Are you sure this wasn't either something on the program, or something you imagined or dreamed while watching the program? One hears that ghosts are anchored to places they have been in life--and your description of seeing figures from a Revolutionary War battle scene agrees with that tradition.

Also, were there lamps of any kind in the room? Candles? And what did you see outside in the yard?


What struck me the most was his personality and character, I can feel that when I see a person whether the person is alive or a ghostly image...
Does this also occur with photographs or video? Or only for live viewing and ghost viewing?


He saw me and I saw him. That is usually the case with ghosts. What ever ghosts are, it is an image in which I see the image of a person from the past and we can see each other and talk to each other. That's what I perceive...

He was not very talkative so I asked him some questions. I knew that he traveled quite a bit to Europe so I asked him about that. I then saw an image of him in a large room in a sail ship, he was seated by a desk and writing letters back to America. I saw his beautiful handwriting...
Does the 'setting' usually change when you converse with ghosts? Was he wearing the same, or different, clothing in this image than when you first saw him? What was he using for lighting in the cabin?


I asked him what he would like to say to America of the future. He thought for a little bit, then said, that although they (Founding Fathers, politicians) had many meetings together, it was not always all work and serious, that they did have fun and laugh together too.
All bolding mine
Benjamin Franklin had nothing more to offer to posterity than the idea that the Revolutionary Boys had a good time in between changing-the-world meetings? No pithy adages about lasting impacts to one's country? No comments about his peers, his inventions, his ideas? And no questions for you about the state of the world in your era, since he knew you were from the future. Didn't ask about scientific discoveries, or even if the United States still existed?

What an unusual reaction from one of the most well-spoken, curious, investigative, and self-approving men this continent has ever produced. Just a comment about your garb and hair. Did he offer you a drink?

A most curious experience that you describe. I would be interested to hear your answers to my questions, if you can remember what you saw/heard.

-- MK

[Autolite]

I am one of those who experiences seeing ghosts and their past environment and being able to speak with them.

Well, my brother Bernie died a few years ago owing me money. If you happen to see him, ask him if I'm ever going to get my fifty bucks back! It would be most appreciated... :mad:

[Professor Yaffle]

My thought, also. Maybe she got confused with the Civil War battles at Bentonville or Plymouth. There were a lot of blue uniforms there.
Or maybe she just made it up.

Ah, but you forgot about her synaesthesia. She sees brown as blue don't you know?

[malbui]

Can you define the difference between someplace "seriously haunted" and "not-so-seriously haunted"?


Our old family house is haunted, but the ghosts seem to spend all their time making fart jokes and sniggering. I reckon that falls into the "not-so-serious" category.

[Locknar]

But sometime in this Spring, me and a friend will visit our first haunted site the battleship USS North Carolina (http://www.battleshipnc.com/page1.php). I will be interested in finding out what kind of things I perceive. We will videotape our visit and it will be made available (for free of course) on the internet.This seems rather self serving and otherwise disingenuous in that if you are going to a "known" haunted site then obviously it is expected you'll experience something. So, what is the point other then proving the obvious?

You'd be better served noting your experiences in your normal day-to-day activity, writing them down, and then checking against facts. Keeping a diary is part of Scientific Method 101, yet seems something you either fail to understand or otherwise refuse to do - and no, a "blog" does not count (but of course, you knew this already).


Like when we drove past what was a battle site in the Revolutionary War. I am not from around here and I wouldn't have known to expect that the war took place there. There are no signs along the road, and the area itself blends in perfectly with the several miles of same looking forest beside the road. But when we were driving by I saw the American soldiers wearing blue jackets that did not protect well from the cold and rain, and the British soldiers in red jackets. I saw it very clearly, and described it to my friend who said that this was where it happened. How would I have known, had I not seen it in my ghostly perception.Where, might one ask, was this site? How did you come to learn it was a location tied to the Revolutionary War?

Can you answer these questions/issues from Skeen?
Erm, shouldn't every location be haunted? Stacking up the numbers, there should be trillions of beings you should be able to see.
She has not fully understood my question though. As I said, we're merely 1% of the humans that have ever existed. She can see other species, too. Meaning that 1% is actually far, far, far, far less than all the possible beings she should be able to see.

Literally billions of those beings died in some kind of a tragedy - we're talking about maybe hundreds of billions of possible ghosts here. That she is seeing an extremely recent species (humans), which have come about in an extremely recent time mostly, makes no sense whatsoever.

She should be able to see even more of our ancestors on the evolutionary scale, by literally hundreds of times more in numbers. And that's just humans and our ancestors. You then have the ancestors of every species that has ever existed.



I was watching a tv documentary that showed some of the remaining authentic buildings from the time of the Founding Fathers, and suddenly perceived very clearly the image of a man from that time in his bedroom. <snip>Can you please clarify; you were watching TV and saw a ghost where? On the TV show, in your room, remote vision to another location, etc?


I asked him what he would like to say to America of the future. He thought for a little bit, then said, that although they (Founding Fathers, politicians) had many meetings together, it was not always all work and serious, that they did have fun and laugh together too.

Well, that's Benjamin Franklin. As I saw it. I can't say that it's true. But that's my experience.One of the most verbally prolific personalities in American politics, and all he has to say is in effect "be excellent to each other. And Party on dudes!" (ie. Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096928/))?

[Lanzy]

Dinosaur Ghosts?!?:eek:

OK, Lets assume ghosts are real.

lets assume ghosts can appear as they wish, young, old, male, female, etc

Now I can assume some ghosts want to appear as creatures, dogs, cats, sheep,
DINOSAURS! Bigfoot! Nessie!

Ghosts are just playing with you VFF. :D

[desertgal]

All bolding mine
Benjamin Franklin had nothing more to offer to posterity than the idea that the Revolutionary Boys had a good time in between changing-the-world meetings?
-- MK

I have to point out that Franklin went to England in 1757, and didn't return until 1775, when he was 69. He left America again in 1776, and didn't return until 1785, and died five years later. How could he have possibly known what the Revolutionary Boys were up to back home, between meetings, during 25+ years abroad?

He was also severely crippled by gout, and wasn't even able to attend most of the meetings of the Committee of Five. Was he supposed to have roused himself enough to be having a good ol' time with the boys between these meetings?

How is it assumed that Franklin was a womanizer? There is no proof of that, beyond one illegitimate son that he acknowledged early in life. Deborah Read and Franklin were married for 44 years. Where is the evidence that he dallied with other women, beyond unfounded speculation and rumor?

He had very long hair that had probably never been cut. The hair was totally unwashed, but that seemed ok somehow.

Franklin had longer hair, in the style of the time, but there is no evidence that it ever reached much past his shoulder blades. For a man in his thirties, to have never had a haircut, his hair would have been past his waist. There were barbers in Colonial America, and certainly in England and France. They even washed hair.

He was wearing a dark brown velvet suit, a tight short jacket and matching short pants that are knee-long.

Rather like here (http://www.historicalstockphotography.com/images/070718113126_Benjamin_Franklin_Studying_Electricit y_LG.jpg)?

He had very wide hips and very wide shoulders considering his short height, and the body proportions looked very peculiar compared to men today.

Based on...what? A great many men today have the same proportions. And there is no evidence, in any of the known portraits of Franklin, that he had "very wide hips" or "very wide shoulders". In most portraits, he had rounded shoulders and hips that were in proportion with the rest of his body.

There are no men quite like that today, I am sure.

Based on...what?

I perceived that their idea of manly was not the assertiveness and strength that we expect of men today in our society...

We do?

...but men were expected to behave in manners that were sophisticated and graceful.

Are you suggesting there are no sophisticated or gracefully mannered men today? Based on...what?

Nothing you relate, VfF, is anything that you couldn't have found with a simple Internet search. Some of it, like your description of the ship's cabin, is completely inaccurate. You also haven't answered simple questions that would verify your other 'experiences'.

These anecdotes appear to be intellectually dishonest.

[Autolite]

Actually, I find all this 'ghost' stuff quite fascinating. I do have one question though. I will assume that there must be billions of ghosts all over the world, all speaking different languages. Has anyone ever encountered a ghost that spoke a foriegn language? I mean, has a Frenchman ever encountered a Spainish speaking ghost, or has a Russian ever chatted with an Anglophone ghost?

How is it that in all these encounters, the ghost seems to always speak the same language that the claiment understands? Do the ghosts 'know' what language they are suppose to use before the encounter? If the language spoken is not the ghost's native tongue, and the person only spoke their native tongue in life, did they learn the new language after they died???

[Ashles]

How is it assumed that Franklin was a womanizer? There is no proof of that, beyond one illegitimate son that he acknowledged early in life. Deborah Read and Franklin were married for 44 years. Where is the evidence that he dallied with other women, beyond unfounded speculation and rumor?
Well that doesn't matter anymore because Anita has declared it is wrong anyway.
Mr. Franklin has received somewhat of a reputation as a womanizer in today's historical literature, and based on what I perceived I would like to correct that.
Anita has corrected that from her vision.
I wonder what else history will turn out to have been wrong about.

And I really am disappointed in Benjamin Franklin. He meets a woman from the future and doesn't have any questions at all?
I like to think I would have a couple of questions, not just criticise their hair and clothes.

[desertgal]

Well that doesn't matter anymore because Anita has declared it is wrong anyway.


Fair enough, but she did state: "Mr. Franklin has received somewhat of a reputation as a womanizer in today's historical literature..."

I'm curious what historical literature she is referencing. Is the reputation based on any factual evidence, or simply speculation?

[Ashles]

I'm curious what historical literature she is referencing.
I was wondering that too.

Is the reputation based on any factual evidence, or simply speculation?
I want to read about Ben 'Check out my Lightning Rod' Franklin

You see this cat Ben is a bad mother--
(Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Ben
(Then we can dig it)

[TX50]

I'm 99% sure that wasn't the real Ben Franklin. Did you ask if he was nearsighted or farsighted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPcbbW10T18

[skeen]

Anita obviously watches far too much TV. Her world-view is that of a child; her assumptions are primitive. Ah well, I'll leave her to her childish fantasies now.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[GeeMack]

So VisionFromFeeling, regarding my post #48 above, where I described what would be the most likely explanations for someone claiming to see and/or communicate with ghosts, have you worked with any mental health professionals yet to help you eliminate the possibility that some kind of mental illness is responsible for your visions? Have you done anything to check that some environmental cause of hallucinations might be responsible?

I'm sure you'd agree, since you are a science student, that these are the most likely possible reasons for your seeing things that aren't really there. What steps exactly have you taken to eliminate them from the pool of explanations?

[Jonquill]

According to the wiki article about him Benjamin had an illegitimate son named William, so he must have 'womanized' at lease once.

[desertgal]

According to the wiki article about him Benjamin had an illegitimate son named William, so he must have 'womanized' at lease once.

True - Franklin acknowledged William in 1730, when he was 24, the same year that he married Deborah Read. I don't think that stands as evidence that he was a lifelong womanizer, though.

[Jonquill]

He saw me and I saw him. That is usually the case with ghosts. What ever ghosts are, it is an image in which I see the image of a person from the past and we can see each other and talk to each other. That's what I perceive. I realized that it was Founding Father Benjamin Franklin.





So did he see you as some sort of ghostly vision or as a real person?
I assume he thought you were real since he offered to get you some clothes?

[jhunter1163]

I was wondering that too.


I want to read about Ben 'Check out my Lightning Rod' Franklin

You see this cat Ben is a bad dead mother--
(Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Ben
(Then we can dig it)


Fixed that for you.

[quarky]

Some people that claim to speak with long dead, very famous people, are just plain deluded.

(Not saying that the poster is one of them. Just saying.)

Its so hard to be polite sometimes.
If I was less concerned about politeness, I'd say ''all people" instead of "some people".

[Ashles]

Some people that claim to speak with long dead, very famous people, are just plain deluded.

Or lying.

I also am not saying that the poster is one of them either.

If I was less concerned about politeness, I'd say ''all people" instead of "some people".
If I were less concerned about politeness I might agree.

[Blackwell]

Ah, but you forgot about her synaesthesia. She sees brown as blue don't you know?

I thought she hears brown as sour?

[Miss_Kitt]

While he did not of course include any reference to womanizing in his autobiography, IIRC a number of contemporary (to him) sources acknowledged him as such. Several biographies I have read of Franklin have said as much. He was in many regards a larger-than-life figure, and he seems to have had a large appetite in a number of arenas. "Rogering" a large number of lovely, anxious ladies on two continents appears to have been one of them...what is undeniable is that, whether he acted on it or not, he had a bevy of female admirers.

Franklin invented so many things that it's almost not fair to use him in a trivia contest! He was responsible for bifocals and the Franklin Stove, of course; but he also was responsible for Philadelphia having a public lending library; a fire department; and a 'public' university. He functionally invented the franchise, as he set up print shops in several cities (and even states), had someone else run them for him, and simply took part of the proceeds in exchange. He was a noted scientist, a writer, a poet, and a shrewd judge of character. He was fluent in multiple languages, and a gifted diplomat. He took numerous young men under his wing and nurtured them into success--his own children being only some of them--and was regarded by many as the place to turn for advice. He tried, unsuccessfully, to introduce the French custom of receiving visitors while in the bathtub to the States when he returned. So I suspect his personal cleanliness was good.

Sorry for the sidebar, but he's really one of the more fascinating figures in an era full of them!

Regards, Miss Kitt

[Jeff Corey]

Also, Franklin helped debunk Mesmerism. http://www.pbs.org/benfranklin/l3_inquiring_mesmer.html
"Franz Mesmer is credited as being one of the fathers of modern day hypnosis and psychotherapy."

[arthwollipot]

Arthwollipot's link is not showing the image, so here's another:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenecessityforruins/3258602342/Thanks for that, Unc. I was just struck by how much VFF's description of Franklin resembled a cartoon caricature. The short, wide body, the oddly-proportioned feet, the knee-breeches...

[Ravenwood]

Interestingly enough, I'm having trouble finding references to velvet waistcoats or coats during the mid to late 1700's in America or Europe...they mainly seem to be wool, linen or Indian grown cotton (in Europe) It appears that velvet coats for men went out of fashion in the 1600's (definitely in France by the time of Franklin, as it was probably seen as a fashion of the monarchy) History can be so fascinating :)

[Undesired Walrus]

Somebody on here, living where Anita does, should take her up on her offer. I'm serious. It's what the JREF is here from. At least then we will know if she is lying or is sincere. She may be agreeing to this experiment because she knows nobody will take her up on it. Prove her wrong.

Pick her up, blindfold her, and drive her to a location which should -if they exist- have ghosts roaming around. Then, without telling her where you both are, have her describe what and who she is seeing. After this encounter, check her descriptions against what you would expect to roam there.

One of the most important things will be accents. We don't have access to the style of past accents, but we can guess that the accent of a man who died 200 years ago will sound different from the accent of a man who died 50 years ago. If you are in an area where you expect a 300 year old man would be roaming, having him described as having an contemporary American accent will show if she is lying or not.

Or, you could do an experiment on this forum. Anita agrees to be on here for a certain amount of time, without navigating away from the page, and gives us a description of a historical figure. If she answers a question (What kind of guns where Civil War troops firing with) a few seconds after it is asked, we will know she isn't researching the question from another site, but instead is simply recalling from memory.

You up for that Anita? Also, what was the accent of Franklin?

[Locknar]

Pick her up, blindfold her, and drive her to a location which should -if they exist- have ghosts roaming around.Given that, as skeen as mentioned, the current human population represents ~1% of the overall human population....and that as part of this claim she includes animals (such as dinosaurs, for example) - ANYPLACE should be just chock-full of ghosts.

[Skeptical Greg]

Nope.. She has already weasled out of that one....

.....in my experience most people do not remain as ghosts. In my experience ghosts are either victims of a terrible fate, perpetrators, or others with unfinished business such as having something urgent to say to the world.

That really doesn't explain away all the kazillion animal ghosts that must be hanging around, but I'm sure Anita has an answer for that one too....

[skeen]

It should also be noted that given the expansion of the Universe, and the rotation of the earth in our galaxy and in general (and taking into account many other factors), any and all ghosts from not too long ago should be located in outer space.

[quarky]

In Ben F.'s day, the 's' was an 'f'.

Something is 'sucked-up' about all this.

[Locknar]

Nope.. She has already weasled out of that one....
Perhaps...though, we are talking all of humanity. Specific to where she is now you have American Indians, Revolutionary War, Civil War, corporal punishment, settler/frontier living, etc. The area should still be chock-full of of "victims of a terrible fate, perpetrators".

Though...lets assume for a moment that is not the case; she claims she spoke to Ben Franklin. He did not suffer a terrible fate (no worse then anyone else that dies from illness)...so we are left with "unfinished business such as having something urgent to say to the world"; and we get "be excellent to each other, party on dudes!"? (to paraphrase) This was the urgent message??


That really doesn't explain away all the kazillion animal ghosts that must be hanging around, but I'm sure Anita has an answer for that one too....Agreed.

[paperskater]

Also, what was the accent of Franklin?

I think she already answered this one...

Another thing, he felt more British than American, and his voice was very soft and with a British accent and I do like the way they pronounced their words back then.

[skeen]

She's hilarious in her little elaborations. The thing is, obviously this experience wasn't real, but I don't believe she had the experience at all. I tend to think she is just plain making stuff up; it all sounds so made up.

It's like what a child would imagine Ben Franklin would be like. The attempts to sound realistic are all so transparent.

[VisionFromFeeling]

Senex,
Anita, I'm uncertain about you at this moment. I believed in your sincerity when you first posted you believed you had special visual ability concerning specific health and chemical environments. Now you believe you can see ghosts? My first instinct is to think you are trying to lay some sort of groundwork for cheating people in the future. However, posting on this site where your replies are not only unsupported but in need of moderation in order to be civil doesn't seem to me to be the best place to post. I have always believed I can see ghosts, even before I told you. It is not something I made up, or realized, just now. "Cheating people?" Not at all! Wait... were my posts moderated? What for? I wasn't being civil? What on earth did I say that was so wrong? :confused: Well, I could very easily be a woo because I do experience these unusual things, but I want to be scientific and skeptic, and that's why I'm here. I'm a scientist science student and skeptic but one who happens to have these experiences! Maybe that is an unusual combination and some of you don't like that. As far as I can say, I've been entirely sincere regarding everything I've posted here. I have not lied once.
I believe you are sincere but I believe you lost your way. If you quit the internet for a month and were no longer affected by the feedback of the internet would you be the same person? My theory is that you have an unhealthy addiction to internet feedback. I know someone you don't know who recommends pulling the internet plug for a month or two won't make you do so -- but if others in your life say the same thing maybe there is something to going off-line for a while.I just thought I would engage in discussion about these things, since I am one who actually experiences these things first hand. There is a lot of interest and discussion here about topics such as these, and I thought it would be a contribution to hear from someone who actually is one who experiences these things. I am not addicted to internet feedback. I'm mainly here on the JREF Forum to discuss my paranormal investigation into how I perceive accurate health information, but then other topics come up and I feel that I want to contribute.

Jeff Corey,
I agree. Not a scam. Somethings else, but I won't speculate. There is absolutely no scam intended. I do experience these things, and I am choosing to look into them from a skeptical and scientific point of view. Maybe that is so unusual that you skeptics don't quite know how to relate to that? I mean, I could be charging $1100 (http://brentenergywork.com/SERVICES.htm) to describe what I see inside people and presumably get away with it! Am I doing that? No.

[Ashles]

I am not addicted to internet feedback. I'm mainly here on the JREF Forum to discuss my paranormal investigation into how I perceive accurate health information
Why do you not do that anymore then?

We are still waiting for you to do these things:

Detail what happened in the Study on January 3rd (How long is "eventually"?)
Fax the notes of said study to the contact details Unca Yimmy provided some time ago
Run a test on identifying crystals
Provide the results of your analysis of Pup's pill experiment (even if the result are that you simply couldn't detect anything)
Detail what exactly you wrote down regarding Wayne (providing a scan of your notes would be even better)
Why do you expect anyone to take your 'ghost researching' seriously when you seem to have lost all interest in your previous paranormal claim?

[skeen]

Anita, calling yourself a scientist is on par with your other ridiculous claims. You are in no way, shape or form a scientist. You are anti-science.

[Ravenwood]

Since she pointed out that just watching a TV show was enough to conjure the shade of Ben Franklin, I propose a simple test. I am posting three pictures I have of battlefields where at least a 150 people have been horrifically slain in war. I would be curious what information, if any VFF could gain from "the other side" (for those of you at home who want to play too, please PM me your guesses & I'll post the results monday or tuesday, time permitting.

[Ravenwood]

Here's the third, due to the forum being wonky, double points to the first person to ID this place...

[EHocking]

Can you define the difference between someplace "seriously haunted" and "not-so-seriously haunted"? It seems to me that just about everyplace should be haunted. Over time, people have died nearly everywhere. Does everyone become a ghost? And do ghosts stay in one place, or at least in a general area? Or do they travel around?Given your avatar, I'd suggest that Cedar Sinai Medical Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx#cite_note-obit-0) in Los Angeles is a not-so-seriously haunted location.

[nathan]

nathan,
I've perceived dinosaurs from a distance, and also I've seen them around here in North Carolina. There is a place in the woods where I see the nesting site of a large group of iguana-looking lizards that are black and yellow.

So you've only seen one kind of iguana-like lizard? How do you know they were dinosaur ghosts? Why do you think you have not seen them anywhere else? Why do you think you have not seen any other kind of 'ancient' ghost? What distance did you see them from? How did you get a sense of proportion?

I suspect you are imagining things.

[desertgal]

While he did not of course include any reference to womanizing in his autobiography, IIRC a number of contemporary (to him) sources acknowledged him as such. Several biographies I have read of Franklin have said as much. He was in many regards a larger-than-life figure, and he seems to have had a large appetite in a number of arenas. "Rogering" a large number of lovely, anxious ladies on two continents appears to have been one of them...what is undeniable is that, whether he acted on it or not, he had a bevy of female admirers.

Franklin invented so many things that it's almost not fair to use him in a trivia contest! He was responsible for bifocals and the Franklin Stove, of course; but he also was responsible for Philadelphia having a public lending library; a fire department; and a 'public' university. He functionally invented the franchise, as he set up print shops in several cities (and even states), had someone else run them for him, and simply took part of the proceeds in exchange. He was a noted scientist, a writer, a poet, and a shrewd judge of character. He was fluent in multiple languages, and a gifted diplomat. He took numerous young men under his wing and nurtured them into success--his own children being only some of them--and was regarded by many as the place to turn for advice. He tried, unsuccessfully, to introduce the French custom of receiving visitors while in the bathtub to the States when he returned. So I suspect his personal cleanliness was good.


Thank you, Miss Kitt. That is a little more definitive than just "historical literature". Very interesting information, as well. :)

Although, Anita did say that she wanted to "correct" the impression of Franklin as a womanizer. But, then, she said that she was attracted to his ghost herself. I'm not sure how the latter statement corrects the first. :confused:

I do experience these things, and I am choosing to look into them from a skeptical and scientific point of view. Maybe that is so unusual that you skeptics don't quite know how to relate to that?

Not unusual at all, and we relate to that quite well, actually. We're just waiting for you to get started on a scientific/skeptical exploration of your claims.

[Safe-Keeper]

This man actually even appeared in my dreams. It was exactly like Terror on Elm Street. I would fall asleep, and wake up fully conscious and aware of my surroundings as real as here but in the dream world in a lucid dream. This very same man was there, leaning over me. I'm afraid it's not a nice story, he tried to murder me in many ways. Grabbed my throat and choked me until my neck was broken and as I would have died I woke up from the dream and could still feel it and felt his presence in the room. Once I fell asleep again, he would throw me out the window, and I'd "die" and wake up again. I tried to stay awake but he put his hands on my head and pushed and I felt an actual physical pressure and pain while awake.
Night terror. Nothing to do with anything supernatural.

[Senex]

Senex,
I have always believed I can see ghosts, even before I told you. It is not something I made up, or realized, just now. "Cheating people?" Not at all! Wait... were my posts moderated? What for?
Now I am pretty certain you are insincere. You know darn well your posts were not moderated by having your words censored. (You would have noticed your own words being removed/changed -- am I right?) It was moderated by moderators stating personal attacks (in this case you were the beneficiary of their protection) were against the rules and should cease. You were protected not afflicted by moderation -- but you knew that.

I wasn't being civil? What on earth did I say that was so wrong? :confused: Well, I could very easily be a woo because I do experience these unusual things, but I want to be scientific and skeptic, and that's why I'm here. I'm a scientist science student and skeptic but one who happens to have these experiences! Maybe that is an unusual combination and some of you don't like that. As far as I can say, I've been entirely sincere regarding everything I've posted here.

Your original post on this thread was...

I am one of those who experiences seeing ghosts and their past environment and being able to speak with them. In fact I am starting an investigations group where me and a few others will visit historical sites and try to record any kind of effect of the presence of ghosts. From my point of view, this is intended entirely for fun and entertainment value and not as a scientific investigation.


That doesn't sound very scientist/science studenty to me. That sounds more like what the paranormal investigaters on cable channels do to create ficticious programming that provides them a paycheck but does mislead young and also gullible people. Not a nice thing to engage in.

I stick by my statement you lost your way (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you had a sincere way to start with).

[Cuddles]

the current human population represents ~1% of the overall human population

Apparently it's actually closer to 6% - http://www.prb.org/pdf/PT_novdec02.pdf

Although as the article notes, the actual number depends very much on how exactly you define "human" and on assumptions for several figures that are impossible to ever know for sure without having someone who can see and talk to ghosts handy. Hey, that gives me an idea...

[Locknar]

Apparently it's actually closer to 6% - http://www.prb.org/pdf/PT_novdec02.pdf

Although as the article notes, the actual number depends very much on how exactly you define "human" and on assumptions for several figures that are impossible to ever know for sure without having someone who can see and talk to ghosts handy. Hey, that gives me an idea...Be it 99% or 94%, that's still a planet chock full of dead people/ghosts for Anita to be seeing I'd say.

BTW - Cool link, thanks!

[billydkid]

skeen:
No there isn't. If my ghostly perceptions showed implausibility in comparison with possible past events I would have a reason for concern. The ghostly perceptions are not random images, they show great detail and correlation to possible people, places, and events of the past. Also I've many times had ghostly perceptions that give me information that was later found to be accurate, information that I shouldn't have known... Like crime scenes, or historical sites. I'm not concerned. I'm not saying that I have proof that my ghostly perceptions are reality based, I'm just saying that they are no reason for concern.
Well, it would be very easy to confirm the existence of ghosts - assuming ghost are what we have always assumed they are. One would have to believe that ghosts have access to information none of us living people could possibly have. They could probably help you win the million. I'm assuming ghosts are not limited by the laws of physics or by time or space or distance - it hard to see how they possibly could in as much as they are not physical entities. I also assume that since they show themselves to you, they want to be noticed and for their existence to be acknowledged, so it would seem like they would be happy to participate. It could be anything that no one living could possibly know, but any entity not restricted by time or space could easily discovered - Say, where Jimmy Hoffa is buried or what the next lotto megajackpot numbers are or how to cure cancer. It might not scientific proof, but it would convince me.