Atheist Godparents

[Matabiri]

Some time ago, I was talking to a Christian friend of mine about his kids, and the subject of Godparents came up. I said that were I asked, while I'd consider it an honour, I'd have to say "no" because I don't believe in God and therefore couldn't in good faith stand up in church and say I'd teach the kid about him.

My friend looked a bit upset and said that it didn't matter, all he would want was someone who'd provide spiritual and philosophical guidance and discussion.

Anyone else managed to offend someone like this? Would there have been a better way of handling it? I was just trying to be honest, and not make a promise I had no intention of keeping...

[The Don]

I've tried to turn down godparenthood a couple of times now (strange that, The Don not wanting to be a Godfather ;) ). On each occasion, the parents had a similar reaction to that you found.

Set two got around it by having two godfathers, one to handle the religous side and me to handle the secular side.

As the service was carried out in Danish, of which I speak not a word beyond 'Tak' and 'Ol' (which is sufficient for most situations) I didn't feel I was having to compromise too much

[chulbert]

Originally posted by Matabiri
Some time ago, I was talking to a Christian friend of mine about his kids, and the subject of Godparents came up. I said that were I asked, while I'd consider it an honour, I'd have to say "no" because I don't believe in God and therefore couldn't in good faith stand up in church and say I'd teach the kid about him.

I don't mean to be rude, but that seems like a petty reason to refuse help to a friend that trusts and respects you enough to raise their children if they die unexpectedly.

[Matabiri]

Originally posted by chulbert


I don't mean to be rude, but that seems like a petty reason to refuse help to a friend that trusts and respects you enough to raise their children if they die unexpectedly.

I was trying to be honest with them. Besides, of course I'd look after their children if they died unexpectedly. That's got nothing at all to do with it.

I'd also willingly discuss philosophy with the kids anytime. The issue was standing up in church and syaing, "I promise to help raise this child as a Christian" when I had no such intention.

[El Greco]

If you knew that someone you care about only has 3 months of life, and you know that telling him so would tear him apart and would make his life miserable, would you still tell him the truth ?

My point is that you have to use your judgement. The greatest virtue is adaptability. Do you think that all those people who just habitually go to church 2-3 times a year, are more theists than you ? I don't think so. Most of them just look at it as another social engagement, like having tp go to the company party and pretend you have fun, although it's the last thing you feel like doing.

All in all, I think you probably should not react to it as if you were a vampire sprinkled with holy water. It's just a convention, and maybe your chance to help a kid make his first skeptic steps. Just make sure that the parents are aware of your relationship with god.

[sophia8]

Chulbert, it depends on the country. Here in the UK, godparents are as Matabiri describes - friends of the family who 'mentor' the child in some way, buy it presents and generally be honourary uncles/aunties. Also, they almost always have to take part in a church ceremony promising to do their bit to raise the child as a Christian - so Matabiri was right to refuse.
I believe that in the US, it's customary for godparents to be "standby parents" in case of tragedy, but that isn't espected of godparents here.

[LuxFerum]

Originally posted by El Greco
If you knew that someone you care about only has 3 months of life, and you know that telling him so would tear him apart and would make his life miserable, would you still tell him the truth ?


Better than leting him wast his last 3 months doing work or another useless stuff.

[Matabiri]

Originally posted by El Greco
Do you think that all those people who just habitually go to church 2-3 times a year, are more theists than you ? I don't think so.

Actually, in this case, he hardly ever goes to church but has an unshakable belief in the existence of god. I've had some very entertaining discussions with him. This is (partly) why I'd have felt guilty.

(Edit: yay! now I have an avatar!)

[El Greco]

Originally posted by Matabiri
Actually, in this case, he hardly ever goes to church but has an unshakable belief in the existence of god. I've had some very entertaining discussions with him. This is (partly) why I'd have felt guilty.

So, the father knew that you are an atheist and yet he asked you to be a godparent ? So, who would you lie to - had you accepted ? To god ?

Perhaps you are a crypto-theist, subconsciously afraid to lie to god :D

[chulbert]

Originally posted by sophia8
Chulbert, it depends on the country. Here in the UK, godparents are as Matabiri describes - friends of the family who 'mentor' the child in some way, buy it presents and generally be honourary uncles/aunties. Also, they almost always have to take part in a church ceremony promising to do their bit to raise the child as a Christian - so Matabiri was right to refuse.
I believe that in the US, it's customary for godparents to be "standby parents" in case of tragedy, but that isn't espected of godparents here.

I stand corrected. I didn't know that the position of godparents varied like that.

I wouldn't really have any problem turning down the "honorary" version of the position on religious grounds.

[zakur]

Originally posted by chulbert
I don't mean to be rude, but that seems like a petty reason to refuse help to a friend that trusts and respects you enough to raise their children if they die unexpectedly. This is a common misconception. Godparents are not named to be guardians in the case of the death of the parents. They have no legal standing at all where guardianship is concerned. Godparents are chosen to assist the baptized "to lead a Christian life in harmony with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations connected with it" (as the Catholics teach it).

Therefore, an atheist is not a proper choice as a child's godparent. It would be rude to accept such a responsibility with no intention of fulfilling the obligation.

[Matabiri]

Originally posted by El Greco


So, the father knew that you are an atheist and yet he asked you to be a godparent ? So, who would you lie to - had you accepted ? To god ?

Perhaps you are a crypto-theist, subconsciously afraid to lie to god :D

I'd be lying to myself. ;-)

[El Greco]

Originally posted by zakur
Therefore, an atheist is not a proper choice as a child's godparent. It would be rude to accept such a responsibility with no intention of fulfilling the obligation.

What obligation ? In this particular case, the parents know that he is an atheist. Just because church has set some rules, it doesn't mean we have to follow them. I guess it was just a way for the parents to express their respect of their friend and give a more formal & permanent tone to their relationship with him. Both sides know it, both sides accept it. Who will be offended ?

[mummymonkey]

Would they ask a friend who was a Buddhist or a Muslim to perform in a Christian ceremony and swear an obligation to the Christian God? Would they, as a Christian feel comfortable participating in a ceremony in a Sikh temple or Jewish Synagogue?
An atheist is not just a Christian who doesn't go to church anymore.


Edit: typos

[zakur]

Originally posted by El Greco
What obligation ? In this particular case, the parents know that he is an atheist. Just because church has set some rules, it doesn't mean we have to follow them. I guess it was just a way for the parents to express their respect of their friend and give a more formal & permanent tone to their relationship with him. Both sides know it, both sides accept it. Who will be offended ? So why go through the whole farce of a baptism in the first place?

[Bluegill]

Originally posted by sophia8
Chulbert, it depends on the country. Here in the UK, godparents are as Matabiri describes - friends of the family who 'mentor' the child in some way, buy it presents and generally be honourary uncles/aunties. Also, they almost always have to take part in a church ceremony promising to do their bit to raise the child as a Christian - so Matabiri was right to refuse.
I believe that in the US, it's customary for godparents to be "standby parents" in case of tragedy, but that isn't espected of godparents here.

I think I've heard of this happening, but maybe only in fairy tales or stories from the "olden days. " I don't recall hearing about anything expecting godparents to fulfill this role in modern times.

I think that there are many different levels of expectation for godparents, and the best, wisest thing to do is ask, "You'd like for me to be your baby's godparent? I'm honored that you asked me, but what does that entail?"

Some friends of mine, Catholics, asked another friend (Buddhist) to be a godfather, and he accepted.

[Marc]

I'm a godfather to one of my nieces. Sure, I am more than willing to teach her what I know about god and religion. hehehe. I get along well with her older brother. He is a skeptic and atheist, figured it out on his own too.

[El Greco]

Originally posted by zakur
So why go through the whole farce of a baptism in the first place?
It is a farce, no doubt about it, but I just think we fret a lot about religious matters, while the rest of our life is full of farces. I mentioned the company party before, because large companies are often the scenery of such farces. We pretend to like people that we don't, we do idiotic things without complaining for the fear of losing our jobs, we endure loads of unnecessary stress etc. But we suddenly remember our adamant character and our revolutionary nature when it comes to the -mostly harmless- religious rituals.

[Corey]

While the defenition of what a "godparent" is today I guess is a bit open to interpretation, for some people there are strict rules as to who can be a godparent. My sister in law and her husband are expecting their first baby and one of my wife's other sisters told her she would be a godparent if they wanted her to be, since the baby won't be born until mid summer and she's being baptized and confirmed as a Catholic before that (the parents to be are Catholic and there is a strange movement in my wife's family of a lot of family members converting to or going back to Catholicism after a decidedly un religious upbringing or adult life).

So, apparently, if you're Catholic your child's godparent has to be Catholic. Which would rule my wife and I out in case of their death, even though I'm sure they'd much rather leave their children in our hands than my rather flaky sister in law's. Depends on who's doing the asking and what they expect out of it, I suppose.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by sophia8
I believe that in the US, it's customary for godparents to be "standby parents" in case of tragedy

Yep, that's exactly the way it is here.

I read the first post, and I couldnt understand the objection. Good to know its merely a case of Crazy Cultural Relativism.

[jimmygun]

My wife and I are godparents to our niece. It works out fine in our case...my wife is Catholic and sees her role in the event of her sister's and her husband's death as that of a spiritual guide, whether or not we have custody. My role is different, in that the parents expect me to watch out for the wellfare of the child, whether or not we have custody. It is both our expectations that if the worst happened the child would still have the guidence of her aunt and her religion and the protection of her uncle.

On my wife's part, she was partaking in a religious rite, for mine I was publiclly stating what my intentions were.

[Some Friggin Guy]

Actually, I am the Godfather to a friend's son. When I was asked, I made it very clear that I am an atheist and Buddhist and had no intention of changing, as it would be a lie. My friend understood and thought I was a good choice anyway because he viewed me as the most "christ-like" person he knew, regardless of my beliefes (I was greatly flattered by this). I did stand up in the church and make the standard vow about raising the child Christian. It was an outright lie, everyone who knows me, including the boy's father, knew it. I didn't feel it was aproblem, since I figured that lying was one of the first things the child should understand about christianity, anyway.

[Garrette]

My sister asked me some time ago to be her daughter's godfather. It did not, nor did I expect it to, carry any legal authority along the lines of guardianship.

I told her I would be honored to accept but she needed to know something about me. That's when I confessed my atheism.

She and her husband debated about a week then reiterated the offer/request. They said my kids turned out okay, so they had no problem with my being around theirs.

Our understanding which is informal, is basically the following:

1) I don't talk to my niece about atheism until she is older--how old is unsure.

2) The desires of the church are secondary to the more general desires of the parents, which is a rather amorphous moralism with church ceremony tacked on.

3) It's okay for me to go through the church ceremony as if I'm religious since the parent's are in effect the 'consumer.'

4) I have to give cool toys and stuff.

5) I get to tickle her.