Israel is a nation of racists and thieves?

[Thunder]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians_7

So Israel is at it again, confiscating privately own Palestinian land in the West Bank, designating it "state-owned", and then allowing it to become a new Jew-only settlement.

How is not theft? The owner is known.

How is this not racist? The land will be used for a Jewish-Israeli only settlement.

Why the hell should I, as a Jewish-American, support such vile actions? Like most other Americans, I am commited to the values of equality, democracy, and freedom.

This theft..this land grab..for a racist settlement..is anything BUT equal, democratic, and free.

Why and how can the Israeli people stand for this? What does this say about the so-called "leftist" Israelis?

:(

[suds101]

Oh parky, there you go again using your "I am Jewish" as a defense for your irrational and unwillingness to understand the situation in Israel. I just got back from visiting Israel about a month ago and traveled with many people my age, whom were all members of the IDF. NOT ONCE, when I talked to them did I here any racism against Palestinians. There was however, a strong a strong anger towards their Israeli neighbors in the west unable to go to School without having to run into a bomb shelter because of air ride sirens. Many of these soldiers did not want to go into the West Bank and DEFINITELY, did not one to just go kill some Arabs. They did however, want to ensure the safety of their fellow citizens who are being directly targeting. There are many IDF military bases along the base but while the Hamas rockets could target them, they instead decide to target only residential areas.

This is not thievery or racism, this is the attempt to ensure the safety of fellow Israels. But I know your experience and wisdom as a "Jewish American" makes you much more astute in understanding evil motives of this very diverse and dynamic country.

[INRM]

Parky76,

You know... you don't have to support or oppose everything Israel does. You can oppose certain things, and agree with others. It doesn't matter if you're Jewish or of Ashkenazi (or Mizrahi, or Sephardic) descent, or a Gentile for that matter.

INRM

[suds101]

Parky76,

You know... you don't have to support or oppose everything Israel does. You can oppose certain things, and agree with others. It doesn't matter if you're Jewish or of Ashkenazi (or Mizrahi, or Sephardic) descent, or a Gentile for that matter.

INRM

Agreed, it gets annoying reading everyone of Parky's post which are usually bashing Israel and he always feels it necessary to mention how he is Jewish. Your opinions of Israel do not change because you are Jewish. Just like my support of Israel should not be diminished because of my Judaism or trip to Israel.

[Doctor Evil]

I am a "so called Israeli leftist". :rolleyes:

I oppose expansion of the settlements, including this latest instance. (Though it will be years before anything will be actually built. No doubt that Parky will be back with another thread once that happens.) I would be happy to see a peace settlement where most (and possibly all) are evacuated.

However, the whining , and lack of effort to get all the facts, have put me off from even trying to engage in a debate. This is not a thread of someone who wish to actually know what "so called Israeli leftists" actually think. I have noticed that lately I have been participating in too many threads of this type here, typically just trying to get some facts in. I must admit that the level of debate in this part of the message board depresses me.

Anyway, I see no reason to have a discussion with someone who think that I am a racist and a thief. Bye Parky, I hope you will enjoy your preaching. I had enough.

[mortimer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians_7

So Israel is at it again, confiscating privately own Palestinian land in the West Bank, designating it "state-owned", and then allowing it to become a new Jew-only settlement.

How is not theft? The owner is known.

How is this not racist? The land will be used for a Jewish-Israeli only settlement.

Why the hell should I, as a Jewish-American, support such vile actions? Like most other Americans, I am commited to the values of equality, democracy, and freedom.

This theft..this land grab..for a racist settlement..is anything BUT equal, democratic, and free.

Why and how can the Israeli people stand for this? What does this say about the so-called "leftist" Israelis?

:(

The mayor of Efrat, Oded Revivi, said the Israeli military designated 425 acres (172 hectares) near Efrat as so-called state land two weeks ago at the end of a lengthy appeals process. He said nine appeals were filed by Palestinian landowners, adding that eight were rejected and one was upheld.

parky, maybe I'm missing something here. As you can read from the quote above, there was an appeals process and one appeal was upheld. Is there evidence that Israel is taking the land of the one appellant that succeeded? Where exactly does this article state that the land set aside was Palestinian-owned?

[The Fool]

parky, maybe I'm missing something here. As you can read from the quote above, there was an appeals process and one appeal was upheld. Is there evidence that Israel is taking the land of the one appellant that succeeded? Where exactly does this article state that the land set aside was Palestinian-owned?

ok...you just have to allow an appeal and reject it? is that how its done?


Its time for everyone to look the other way and whistle a happy tune....

[cheat3]

sorry parky I have to agree with general consensus here, clearly not a nation or racisits and thieves, but I would argue that their foriegn policy reflects that of racists and thieves.

you might want to moderate your claims a little, tone them down and specify more, youll find them easier to defend on forums.

[mortimer]

ok...you just have to allow an appeal and reject it? is that how its done?


Its time for everyone to look the other way and whistle a happy tune....
No, Fool, I'm simply asking for evidence that Palestinian-owned land was taken for this settlement, because the article posted by parky doesn't state that it was.

I wouldn't be surprised if parky is correct, but evidence is a good thing to skeptics, no?

[The Fool]

No, Fool, I'm simply asking for evidence that Palestinian-owned land was taken for this settlement, because the article posted by parky doesn't state that it was.

I wouldn't be surprised if parky is correct, but evidence is a good thing to skeptics, no?
what evedence do you expect? I can guarantee one thing, since it was appealed there were some people that claimed they owned the land. Of course thier claims were rejected by an independant.....ooops, hang on. One of the parties in the dispute gets to decide the appeal...thats cute.

The fact that privately owned land has, is and will be taken for settlements is no longer disputed. Israel has put thier hands up to it since thier internal data itemising the practice was blown.....That was covered in a recent thread where the usual conga line of israel apologists whistled a happy tune and looked the other way......certainly were conspicuous in thier absence.


what the hey....Israel can take what it wants. Who is going to stop them? Whistle a happy tune, look the other way.

[Thunder]

My point is, that once again Israel is stealing legally owned Palestinian land, and turning it into a Jew-only settlement. I just dont understand why the Israeli people stand for such actions, and how can they not understand why many see these actions as portraying Israel as being a land-stealing, racist nation.

I can no longer support Israel if this action goes forward.

[Texas]

I can no longer support Israel if this action goes forward.Parky you have made that same statement or something similar on several of your threads. I think everyone gets it.

[mortimer]

what evedence do you expect? I can guarantee one thing, since it was appealed there were some people that claimed they owned the land. Of course thier claims were rejected by an independant.....ooops, hang on. One of the parties in the dispute gets to decide the appeal...thats cute.

The fact that privately owned land has, is and will be taken for settlements is no longer disputed. Israel has put thier hands up to it since thier internal data itemising the practice was blown.....That was covered in a recent thread where the usual conga line of israel apologists whistled a happy tune and looked the other way......certainly were conspicuous in thier absence.


what the hey....Israel can take what it wants. Who is going to stop them? Whistle a happy tune, look the other way.

Well, gee, what evidence do I expect? I guess, since the claim was that Israel stole Palestinian owned land near Efrat for this settlement expansion, I would expect evidence that the land was owned by Palestinians.

What's so hard to understand? Do you automatically accept all anti-Israeli claims without evidence?

[mortimer]

My point is, that once again Israel is stealing legally owned Palestinian land, and turning it into a Jew-only settlement. I just dont understand why the Israeli people stand for such actions, and how can they not understand why many see these actions as portraying Israel as being a land-stealing, racist nation.

I can no longer support Israel if this action goes forward.

Again, evidence please, that the land was owned by Palestinians?

And what, exactly, makes it racist?

[The Fool]

Well, gee, what evidence do I expect? I guess, since the claim was that Israel stole Palestinian owned land near Efrat for this settlement expansion, I would expect evidence that the land was owned by Palestinians.

What's so hard to understand? Do you automatically accept all anti-Israeli claims without evidence?
If it wasn't owned by palestinians who do you imagine it was owned by?

I'll list for you the things I have automatically accepted.

1. Israel has taken this land.
2. Palestinians have appealed the decision
3. Israel has rejected the appeal.

whats new?


and do you have problems seeing the inherant racism here? would it make it easier to see if it was creating areas where Jews were excluded?

[moon1969]

Sorry but no Israel is not. Russia and the russians are a nation of racists and thieves. ;):D

[moon1969]

If Israel has to give up the land to the palestinians than Russia should also give Karelia back to Finland after fixing it of course since before the war Karelia was a pretty good place. :D

[moon1969]

Every time I hear a russian saying something like that about Israel it makes me :mad: :D russians are the real thieves and not the jews. :mad: I should know something about russian thievery. :mad:

[mortimer]

If it wasn't owned by palestinians who do you imagine it was owned by?

I'll list for you the things I have automatically accepted.

1. Israel has taken this land.
2. Palestinians have appealed the decision
3. Israel has rejected the appeal.

whats new?


and do you have problems seeing the inherant racism here? would it make it easier to see if it was creating areas where Jews were excluded?
I'm not trying to imagine anything. I prefer evidence to guessing.

As far as the racism charge... I was not thinking of the Israeli policy of allowing only Jews to move to these settlements, excluding Arab Israelis. I agree, that is racist. Racism seems pretty rampant in that corner of the world. Does Hamas allow Jews to own land and live in Gaza and the West Bank?

[The Fool]

Does Hamas allow Jews to own land and live in Gaza and the West Bank?
Lol......I would doubt that very much.

[a_unique_person]

Oh parky, there you go again using your "I am Jewish" as a defense for your irrational and unwillingness to understand the situation in Israel. I just got back from visiting Israel about a month ago and traveled with many people my age, whom were all members of the IDF. NOT ONCE, when I talked to them did I here any racism against Palestinians.


There was a forum member here who is long gone who explained this attitude. The Palestinians don't exist to the settlers, they don't concern themselves with their fate at all. The only existence they have is as terrorists. I guess it makes it easier to deny them a future.
[/quote]
There was however, a strong a strong anger towards their Israeli neighbors in the west unable to go to School without having to run into a bomb shelter because of air ride sirens. Many of these soldiers did not want to go into the West Bank and DEFINITELY, did not one to just go kill some Arabs. They did however, want to ensure the safety of their fellow citizens who are being directly targeting. There are many IDF military bases along the base but while the Hamas rockets could target them, they instead decide to target only residential areas.

This is not thievery or racism, this is the attempt to ensure the safety of fellow Israels. But I know your experience and wisdom as a "Jewish American" makes you much more astute in understanding evil motives of this very diverse and dynamic country.[/quote]

As I have linked to several times here already, many settlers know exactly what they are doing, they are depriving the Palestinians of a state. That is one of the points of the exercise.

[a_unique_person]

This is not thievery or racism, this is the attempt to ensure the safety of fellow Israels. But I know your experience and wisdom as a "Jewish American" makes you much more astute in understanding evil motives of this very diverse and dynamic country.

What would you call this?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/60minutes/main4749723.shtml



Daniella Weiss moved from Israel to the West Bank 33 years ago. She has been the mayor of a large settlement.

"I think that settlements prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state in the land of Israel. This is the goal. And this is the reality," Weiss told 60 Minutes correspondent Bob Simon.

[gdnp]

Sorry but no Israel is not. Russia and the russians are a nation of racists and thieves.

Are the two mutually exclusive?

[Dr. Tobias Fünke]

I am a "so called Israeli leftist". :rolleyes:

I oppose expansion of the settlements, including this latest instance. (Though it will be years before anything will be actually built. No doubt that Parky will be back with another thread once that happens.) I would be happy to see a peace settlement where most (and possibly all) are evacuated.

However, the whining , and lack of effort to get all the facts, have put me off from even trying to engage in a debate. This is not a thread of someone who wish to actually know what "so called Israeli leftists" actually think. I have noticed that lately I have been participating in too many threads of this type here, typically just trying to get some facts in. I must admit that the level of debate in this part of the message board depresses me.

Anyway, I see no reason to have a discussion with someone who think that I am a racist and a thief. Bye Parky, I hope you will enjoy your preaching. I had enough.



I don't expect your average Shlomo Sixpack (or conscript soldier, for that matter!) to have any interest in land-grabs whatsoever.
On a related note a question I've wanted to ask for quite some time:
I guess - though I don't know - that orthodox jews and radical Baruch-Goldstein-types are "outbreeding" said Shlomo Sixpack by far, shifting the Israeli electorate towards the right/radical/irrational wing over time.
I imagine this wouldn't be propitious ( been lurking for quite some time ;) ) to any peace process.
Am I only imagining such a problem? Is it a problem? Am I making myself clear at all :confused: ?

[Doctor Evil]

I don't expect your average Shlomo Sixpack (or conscript soldier, for that matter!) to have any interest in land-grabs whatsoever.
On a related note a question I've wanted to ask for quite some time:
I guess - though I don't know - that orthodox jews and radical Baruch-Goldstein-types are "outbreeding" said Shlomo Sixpack by far, shifting the Israeli electorate towards the right/radical/irrational wing over time.
I imagine this wouldn't be propitious ( been lurking for quite some time ;) ) to any peace process.
Am I only imagining such a problem? Is it a problem? Am I making myself clear at all :confused: ?

I have lost a previous version of my reply to the database connection gods :mad: This forum is impossible at this time. (This time my reply is shorter.)

Anyway, in my opinion, this is not a real problem. The extreme right is small, and even considering your assumption, namely that none of them would change their opinions, it would take them decades (centuries) to grow. As for orthodox Jews, they certainly tend to the right. However, their leaders are more interested in the narrow interests of their community, and will sit in a center left government if it suits them.

Please note that the Israeli government have removed all the settlements in Gaza by force not so long ago. The demographies have not really chanced since then. It is true that it will be much harder to remove west bank settlements, but I believe this can happen if the Israeli public will believe that it will get peace in return. Which brings us to the real problem.

The real problem is that large parts of Israeli society have lost the belief in peace. To be more precise, they do not believe that we will get peace in return to concessions. To find out how severe is this problem, just compare the number of seats of the Labor and Maretz parties to the results of previous elections.

There are many reasons for this. I will cite one. An important factor is that Israel was attacked both south Lebanon and Gaza. Areas which it had withdrawn from. Furthermore, it was attacked by racist, theocratic organizations which have no interest in coexistence.

I believe that if the Israeli public will be convinced that there is a realistic chance for peace, it will vote accordingly. Unfortunately, it may take years. :(

[gdnp]

Anyway, in my opinion, this is not a real problem. The extreme right is small, and even considering your assumption, namely that none of them would change their opinions, it would take them decades (centuries) to grow.
I guess it depends on how you define "extreme right." Avigdor Lieberman's party won 15%, and he wants to expel all Palestinians who won't swear a loyalty oath to Israel as a Jewish state. Likud won 23%, and if you believe their charter they categorically reject a Palestinian state on the west bank. By my count that makes 38% pretty extreme right, not even counting the fringe parties.


Please note that the Israeli government have removed all the settlements in Gaza by force not so long ago. The demographies have not really chanced since then. It is true that it will be much harder to remove west bank settlements, but I believe this can happen if the Israeli public will believe that it will get peace in return. Which brings us to the real problem.
The withdrawal from Gaza is an interesting case. It was less a concession to the Palestinians than an admission that they were harder to defend then they were worth. Essentially a strategic retreat.

There are many reasons for this. I will cite one. An important factor is that Israel was attacked both south Lebanon and Gaza. Areas which it had withdrawn from. Furthermore, it was attacked by racist, theocratic organizations which have no interest in coexistence. In my mind the best way to undercut such organizations would be to show the Palestinians that there is a benefit in supporting the "moderates" like Fatah. Unfortunately, Abbas has little to show for keeping the lid on West Bank violence. His term is expired, and no elections are on the horizon because if they were held now Hamas would win.

I believe that if the Israeli public will be convinced that there is a realistic chance for peace, it will vote accordingly. Unfortunately, it may take years. I agree that it will probably take years. Whether a majority can be convinced it is worth taking a chance on peace remains to be seen.

I was at a wedding recently in a reform temple where the Rabbi said, in a matter-of-fact manner, that there will be no peace until the Temple is rebuilt. I found the implications of that statement troubling, to say the least. If Jews in liberal New Jersey believe this, then how long before someone decides to hasten the prospect by destroying the Dome of the Rock?

[Doctor Evil]

I guess it depends on how you define "extreme right." Avigdor Lieberman's party won 15%, and he wants to expel all Palestinians who won't swear a loyalty oath to Israel as a Jewish state. Likud won 23%, and if you believe their charter they categorically reject a Palestinian state on the west bank. By my count that makes 38% pretty extreme right, not even counting the fringe parties.


I partly agree with this. Since we both know why I would agree, I will just point out why I do not think we can simply box those parties. Lieberman's loyalty oath is disgusting. On the other hand, its not clear whether he will be against returning territories as part of a final agreement. In some sense he reminds me of Putin, which actually put him on the far right.

As for Likud, they have a long history of making grand declarations, and then being rather pragmatic while in power. I am not sure that you can simply put them at the extreme right, rather than being just right wing.

Anyway, don't get me wrong. While I could not vote in these elections, I had made a few phone calls just to convince family and friends to go and vote. My slogan was 'just not Bibi or Lieberman'.


The withdrawal from Gaza is an interesting case. It was less a concession to the Palestinians than an admission that they were harder to defend then they were worth. Essentially a strategic retreat.
This is true, but in my opinion a second order effect. After getting Gaza back the Palestinians had a choice regarding future policies. They made theirs. I would have preferred a negotiated retreat, but I am not convinced it would have changed much in the long run.


In my mind the best way to undercut such organizations would be to show the Palestinians that there is a benefit in supporting the "moderates" like Fatah. Unfortunately, Abbas has little to show for keeping the lid on West Bank violence. His term is expired, and no elections are on the horizon because if they were held now Hamas would win.
Possibly. But my whole point that this goes in both directions, and the fact that the other direction was ignored is one of the reasons that the Isreali peace camp is in such critical condition. We should now find a way to have policies which will help moderates on both sides, which also means that both sides will have to confront their radicals. (We did this when evacuating Gaza and it did not payed off.)


I was at a wedding recently in a reform temple where the Rabbi said, in a matter-of-fact manner, that there will be no peace until the Temple is rebuilt. I found the implications of that statement troubling, to say the least. If Jews in liberal New Jersey believe this, then how long before someone decides to hasten the prospect by destroying the Dome of the Rock?

I am an atheist. However, as far as I know, the consensus among all major Rabbis is that it is not the time to build a new Temple. I think there are many weird things which needed to be done before that, and no one tries to do that. I don't think you should be worried about what the Rabbi said, except maybe his pessimism.

[Darth Rotor]

Racists and Thieves.

Sounds like the next XBox game.

You in on the dev team, Parky?

As to this thread, being pro your own group does not make you a racist. Check out any number of organizations like the NAACP or LULAC for -- never mind.

I'll stop.

DR

[gdnp]

Possibly. But my whole point that this goes in both directions, and the fact that the other direction was ignored is one of the reasons that the Isreali peace camp is in such critical condition. We should now find a way to have policies which will help moderates on both sides, which also means that both sides will have to confront their radicals. (We did this when evacuating Gaza and it did not payed off.)
I agree that we need good will on both sides. Still, I do not think that Israel fully appreciates the cost that Abbas paid in sitting on his hands while 1200 Palestinians died in Gaza. That lost him credibility with his own people, and a month later what are the headlines? Palestinian land confiscated for Jewish settlements. I think Israel needs to do more to strengthen Abbas or Hamas will only further increase their popularity.

I am an atheist. However, as far as I know, the consensus among all major Rabbis is that it is not the time to build a new Temple. I think there are many weird things which needed to be done before that, and no one tries to do that. I don't think you should be worried about what the Rabbi said, except maybe his pessimism.
This is where my lack of understanding of the culture comes in, and I appreciate the clarification. It seemed to me that he was calling for the rebuilding of the temple, but I will admit that the alternative interpretation would be like a Christian saying "We won't have peace until Jesus returns".

[bigjelmapro]

Hamas will increase in popularity regardless of what Fatah does. This is pretty much a given.

What isn't a given, and what is readily accepted by many at this forum, is that all this land is automatically assumed to be solely owned by Arabs. This simply isn't the case.

Quite frankly, it doesn't really matter trying to convince many of these posters since these very same people stood idly by accepting the same with those evicted out of Gaza. Sure, I have an issue with religious zealotry, but this doesn't justify evicting, or rather the term of choice here (only attributed to Arabs though), ethnic cleansing, of Jews from Gaza where there is no denying the history of Jews existing in Gaza.

Land for peace has failed time and time again. And so has the failed decision of handing over the Temple mount to the Waqf and allowing the PLO into the territories, pulling a 'Mugabe' (as it should be accepted as a verb) in these very same territories, going downhill since 1992.

Regardless, I don't agree with the statements of this OP, which shouldn't be surprising since most of these threads follow the same premise, hammering in brainfart fantasies until they are accepted as fact.

[Thunder]

Racists and Thieves.

Sounds like the next XBox game.

You in on the dev team, Parky?

As to this thread, being pro your own group does not make you a racist. Check out any number of organizations like the NAACP or LULAC for -- never mind.

I'll stop.

DR

discriminating against another human being because of his ethnicity or race is indeed racism

[fuelair]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians_7

So Israel is at it again, confiscating privately own Palestinian land in the West Bank, designating it "state-owned", and then allowing it to become a new Jew-only settlement.

How is not theft? The owner is known.

How is this not racist? The land will be used for a Jewish-Israeli only settlement.

Why the hell should I, as a Jewish-American, support such vile actions? Like most other Americans, I am commited to the values of equality, democracy, and freedom.

This theft..this land grab..for a racist settlement..is anything BUT equal, democratic, and free.

Why and how can the Israeli people stand for this? What does this say about the so-called "leftist" Israelis?

:(
What race are they being racist against? There is no Arabic race and Semitic is not a race and there is no Muslim race. So..... :confused::confused:

[gdnp]

What race are they being racist against? There is no Arabic race and Semitic is not a race and there is no Muslim race. So..... :confused::confused:

Non-Jews.

[bigjelmapro]

Non-Jews.
Yep, in Al-Manar or BBC world.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

discriminating against another human being because of his ethnicity or race is indeed racism

It certainly is. Israel is a racist and persecutory nation.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

What race are they being racist against? There is no Arabic race and Semitic is not a race and there is no Muslim race. So..... :confused::confused:

So that makes the discrimination, prejudice and persecution OK then? I guess it does in some peoples eyes.

I prefer to stick to the humanitarian view where every human being is a human being.

[The Fool]

What race are they being racist against? There is no Arabic race and Semitic is not a race and there is no Muslim race. So..... :confused::confused:
There is no white race, there is no black race, there is no arabic race, there is no semitic race....and on and on and on.....

Hey, there is no such thing as racism..... cool eh?

[The Fool]

There is no white race, there is no black race, there is no arabic race, there is no semitic race....and on and on and on.....

Hey, there is no such thing as racism..... cool eh?
and don't forget fool......Anti-semitism is not racism either!

come on, lets all hold hands and sing!!!

[bigjelmapro]

Ah, the people that live in a bubble.

[fuelair]

Ah, the people that post on skeptical websites spouting terms that they do not use the proper definitions of because it's apparently too hard to find the terms that might be correct and so much easier to say a term means whatever they think it does/want it to mean.

[The Fool]

Ah, the people that post on skeptical websites spouting terms that they do not use the proper definitions of because it's apparently too hard to find the terms that might be correct and so much easier to say a term means whatever they think it does/want it to mean.
Its you that has spun racism out of existance....please explain what you think is an actual example of racism and I can reply "but xxxx is not a race".

[Tin Foil Timothy]

What race are they being racist against? There is no Arabic race and Semitic is not a race and there is no Muslim race. So..... :confused::confused:

One of the most amazing examples of delusion and denial I've ever seen.

It's odd that you deny that races exist. I wonder if you'll adopt the same delusion and denial if someone popped up and criticized people for being Jewish?

Or is that different?

I also find it amusing ( and very sad ) that the Zionist Movement claims it's racist to criticizes racism. But only Israel's racism it seems

[billydkid]

Agreed, it gets annoying reading everyone of Parky's post which are usually bashing Israel and he always feels it necessary to mention how he is Jewish. Your opinions of Israel do not change because you are Jewish. Just like my support of Israel should not be diminished because of my Judaism or trip to Israel.
Except Parky is well aware that criticism of Israel invariably results in accusations of bigotry, which is the weapon of choice for those who want derail honest discussion of this type of issue. He is merely disarming those who's only weapon is the cheap shot.

[Thunder]

One of the most amazing examples of delusion and denial I've ever seen.

It's odd that you deny that races exist. I wonder if you'll adopt the same delusion and denial if someone popped up and criticized people for being Jewish?

Or is that different?

I also find it amusing ( and very sad ) that the Zionist Movement claims it's racist to criticizes racism. But only Israel's racism it seems

Semitic is not a race. It is an ethno-lingustic group. Just like Romance, Germanic, Gaelic, etc.

[TriskettheKid]

One of the most amazing examples of delusion and denial I've ever seen.

It's odd that you deny that races exist. I wonder if you'll adopt the same delusion and denial if someone popped up and criticized people for being Jewish?

Or is that different?

I also find it amusing ( and very sad ) that the Zionist Movement claims it's racist to criticizes racism. But only Israel's racism it seems

Race is a social construct.

There is no actual difference between people.

Yes, I deny that races exist.

[The Fool]

There is only a single race of Humans on this planet. Racism and race have a common usage that is probably not anthropologically correct....but still provides an oportunity for throwing in a stupid repetative "xxxx is not a race" diversion in threads..

[fullflavormenthol]

Well with the whole Israel-Palestine actually having to get along situation; it is not a matter of if, but a matter of when it will happen.

I believe in Israel's right to exist, but I also believe that the Palestinians have a right to a state; and at some point this cycle of violence must stop.

[The Fool]

Race is a social construct.

There is no actual difference between people.

Yes, I deny that races exist.
yes but do you try to deny racism exists? I doubt it.....this whole "but XXXX are not a race" business is laughable when it is used in response to racism directed at XXXX.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Race is a social construct.

There is no actual difference between people.

Yes, I deny that races exist.

That of course is absurd. Of course races exist.

The lengths people will goto to deny the racist agenda of Israel is complete ga ga.

In fact everytime a thread is started criticizing Israel a merry group of Zionist Apologists burst onto the scene and derail it into some pointless pedant.

Love is obviously blind.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

yes but do you try to deny racism exists? I doubt it.....this whole "but XXXX are not a race" business is laughable when it is used in response to racism directed at XXXX.

The Fool ... There arguments are real low quality. At least we don't have to expend much energy in discrediting their arguments when they do it so masterfully themselves.

Israel needs to find some better apologists otherwise it is doomed. :) :)

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Semitic is not a race. It is an ethno-lingustic group. Just like Romance, Germanic, Gaelic, etc.

So are you saying Anti-semitism is not racism?

Interesting.

[TriskettheKid]

That of course is absurd. Of course races exist.

The lengths people will goto to deny the racist agenda of Israel is complete ga ga.

In fact everytime a thread is started criticizing Israel a merry group of Zionist Apologists burst onto the scene and derail it into some pointless pedant.

Love is obviously blind.

Races are merely a social construct.

Of course, if you're willing:

Is "black" a race?

Chinese?

Japanese?

Mongolian?

American?

European?

Slavic?

Pray tell, outside of a social construct, what can be defined as a "race"?

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Races are merely a social construct.

Of course, if you're willing:

Is "black" a race?

Chinese?

Japanese?

Mongolian?

American?

European?

Slavic?

Pray tell, outside of a social construct, what can be defined as a "race"?

Entry level diversion. Even your best friends wouldn't tell you.

Look, you can cite nonsense definitions of race all you like, but Israel is racist nation. Period.

[Skeptic]

Except Parky is well aware that criticism of Israel invariably results in accusations of bigotry,

No it doesn't. It's only "criticism" of the "Wouldn't it be wonderful if the evil, evil Israel would be wiped off the face of the earth?" type -- usually by people who cannot speak a word of Hebrew or Arabic and had never been a thousand miles (literally) from Israel -- that causes that reaction.

[quixotecoyote]

-deleted-

[Thunder]

So are you saying Anti-semitism is not racism?

Interesting.

I have no problem broadening the use of the term "racism" to include prejudice and discrimination against ethnic groups. Religious groups? No.

Is anti-Catholic violence by Ulster Protestants racism? No its not.

Is anti-Irish hatred by English people racism? Yes.

Is Hooto hatred against Tutsis racism? Yes.

Arab hatred against Kurds racism? Yes.

Muslim hatred of Jews racism? No. That's anti-Semitism.

[gdnp]

I have no problem broadening the use of the term "racism" to include prejudice and discrimination against ethnic groups. Religious groups? No.

Is anti-Catholic violence by Ulster Protestants racism? No its not.

Is anti-Irish hatred by English people racism? Yes.

Is Hooto hatred against Tutsis racism? Yes.

Arab hatred against Kurds racism? Yes.

Muslim hatred of Jews racism? No. That's anti-Semitism.

I see two problems with this. First, race and religion are often intertwined and not easily separated.

Second, there is no common term for prejudice against most religions. Antisemitism is understood to be prejudice against Jews, but even it is a poor term, since not all semites are jews and not all jews are semites. What term do we use for prejudice against Muslims or catholics? Antimuslimism? Anticatholicism? What is the general term for prejudice against members of religions other than your own?

Unless someone can come up with a better term, I will continue to use racism in the general sense to mean prejudice against a person based on their ethnicity, country of origin, or religion.

[a_unique_person]

Races are merely a social construct.

Of course, if you're willing:

Is "black" a race?

Chinese?

Japanese?

Mongolian?

American?

European?

Slavic?

Pray tell, outside of a social construct, what can be defined as a "race"?

Race is a genetic construct, how we deal with race is social construct. Given there are quite easily recognised differences between races, eg, colour, it's not too hard to come up with some reasonably consistent way of classifying people according to race. The interesting thing is, the racial differences are only due to something like 1% difference in genetic code, (I'm guessing here, but it's a very small number). So the things that make us different are much smaller than the things that make us the same.

The big problem with race is how we react to it. Deciding that Jews or Arabs deserve to die because of their race is wrong. Yet people on both sides of this conflict have made exactly that claim.

Defining race is difficult, just as biologists have ongoing debates about definitions of species. For racists, however, there is usually not much of a problem.

[Damien Evans]

Race is a genetic construct, how we deal with race is social construct. Given there are quite easily recognised differences between races, eg, colour, it's not too hard to come up with some reasonably consistent way of classifying people according to race. The interesting thing is, the racial differences are only due to something like 1% difference in genetic code, (I'm guessing here, but it's a very small number). So the things that make us different are much smaller than the things that make us the same.

The big problem with race is how we react to it. Deciding that Jews or Arabs deserve to die because of their race is wrong. Yet people on both sides of this conflict have made exactly that claim.

Defining race is difficult, just as biologists have ongoing debates about definitions of species. For racists, however, there is usually not much of a problem.

It's closer to 0.001%.

[a_unique_person]

It's closer to 0.001%.

Thanks. I knew it was a very small number.

[gdnp]

Race is a genetic construct, how we deal with race is social construct. Given there are quite easily recognised differences between races, eg, colour, it's not too hard to come up with some reasonably consistent way of classifying people according to race. The interesting thing is, the racial differences are only due to something like 1% difference in genetic code, (I'm guessing here, but it's a very small number). So the things that make us different are much smaller than the things that make us the same.

I think your number is way too conservative. It is probably much less than 1%. Our similarity to chimps is 95% (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2833-humanchimp-dna-difference-trebled.html). AFAIK there are no genes or gene variants that are unique to any given race. Dog DNA is 99.8% similar to grey wolf DNA (http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/Canis_biogenetic_exploring.html), meaning that the difference between a wolf, a Chihuahua, and a great dane is less than 0.2%.

[Tin Foil Timothy]

No it doesn't. It's only "criticism" of the "Wouldn't it be wonderful if the evil, evil Israel would be wiped off the face of the earth?" type -- usually by people who cannot speak a word of Hebrew or Arabic and had never been a thousand miles (literally) from Israel -- that causes that reaction.

How ridiculous.

Skeptic you are firmly blinkered by the "We are victims mentality"

I have have spent considerable time in the Middle East but really that is irrelevant. You are making your arguments look foolish by applying some silly benchmark of people being able to speak Hebrew or Arabic and going on and on and on about Israel being "wiped of the face of the earth" and Jews being "pushed into the Sea".

All you are doing is making your arguments look like a freaky sideshow that is interleaved amongst the real debate.