Your father is the devil

[Gaetan]

Your father is the devil

I read the Gospels and the first books of the bible up to the deuteronomy and i came to the conclusion that the Gospels bring us close to God but the books dealing with Moses don’t come from God but the devil.
The animal sacrifices describe in the leviticus and the food restrictions or tax that we find in the Deuteronomy are the monopoly of devil. The amputations, stoning, eye for and an eye law are from devil also. The circumcision is the mark of devil. In the teaching we find in the Deuteronomy, there are good things, but they are lure to rip-off the just.


Abraham and Moses were medium but their guide wasn’t God. That guide, as in the case of Moses, would have committed supernatural acts, but there is no proof of that, and more, I should say that it is not by those acts that we should recognize the true God. The most of chief of sects say that they also lived supernatural phenomena but when we ask for proof they have none.
Jesus was a medium, we have the proof of it in the transfiguration when he talks with spirits and also when he confronted the devil in the desert, a spirit. And more, he had knowledge of after live that only a medium can have. I am also a medium and I faced the devil many times. When you face the devil, you have to reject all that come from him. You can’t do as the Christians, to estimate yourself more conning than him, to take from his teaching what you believe that is fit for you, and reject the rest. Never do business or alliance with devil. The devil never act alone, there are million spirits that support him, he is a spirit and reads our thought.

The Christ have fought the revelations or directives given to Moses and have been crucified because of that. You know the Gospels as much as me. He couldn’t at his time, tells to peoples openly and clearly that the guide of Moses was devil. If he would have done more, he would have been stoned. Anyway in the Gospel according to St. John 8.44, he told them that their true guide was the devil. To be more clear, when the Christ talked about God, being of mercy, that wasn’t the same spirit than the guide of Moses.
By way of conclusion, if you promote the gospels, you get us close to God because the Christ committed very little error. However, if you promote of the old-testament, you promote the devil. Church committed a lot of errors in the past, it was because they adopted those books as coming from God. As for example, they burnt mediums as Jeanne d’ Arc, when the Christ, Abraham and Moses was. You should discuss it with friends.

Gaétan

[This Guy]

Your father is the devil

I read the Gospels and the first books of the bible up to the deuteronomy and i came to the conclusion that the Gospels bring us close to God but the books dealing with Moses don’t come from God but the devil.
The animal sacrifices describe in the leviticus and the food restrictions or tax that we find in the Deuteronomy are the monopoly of devil. The amputations, stoning, eye for and an eye law are from devil also. The circumcision is the mark of devil. In the teaching we find in the Deuteronomy, there are good things, but they are lure to rip-off the just.


Abraham and Moses were medium but their guide wasn’t God. That guide, as in the case of Moses, would have committed supernatural acts, but there is no proof of that, and more, I should say that it is not by those acts that we should recognize the true God. The most of chief of sects say that they also lived supernatural phenomena but when we ask for proof they have none.
Jesus was a medium, we have the proof of it in the transfiguration when he talks with spirits and also when he confronted the devil in the desert, a spirit. And more, he had knowledge of after live that only a medium can have. I am also a medium and I faced the devil many times. When you face the devil, you have to reject all that come from him. You can’t do as the Christians, to estimate yourself more conning than him, to take from his teaching what you believe that is fit for you, and reject the rest. Never do business or alliance with devil. The devil never act alone, there are million spirits that support him, he is a spirit and reads our thought.

The Christ have fought the revelations or directives given to Moses and have been crucified because of that. You know the Gospels as much as me. He couldn’t at his time, tells to peoples openly and clearly that the guide of Moses was devil. If he would have done more, he would have been stoned. Anyway in the Gospel according to St. John 8.44, he told them that their true guide was the devil. To be more clear, when the Christ talked about God, being of mercy, that wasn’t the same spirit than the guide of Moses.
By way of conclusion, if you promote the gospels, you get us close to God because the Christ committed very little error. However, if you promote of the old-testament, you promote the devil. Church committed a lot of errors in the past, it was because they adopted those books as coming from God. As for example, they burnt mediums as Jeanne d’ Arc, when the Christ, Abraham and Moses was. You should discuss it with friends.

Gaétan

On the other hand the Bible may be a bunch of fairy tales and made up stories, and you may not be a medium.

Next time you confront the Devil, how about snapping some pics on your cell phone, or something.

[IMST]

I would suggest taking this to a forum populated with more Christians. Then you guys can battle out who knows their imaginary friend better. Most people here would feel like it's ALL made up and makes about as much sense as arguing about which deity was guiding Odysseus.

[Bikewer]

That Devil...What a sneaky dude! Imagine how confused the poor tribes must have been....Bronze idol there, stone tablets here.....

[PrincessIneffabelle]

Sorry, I'm an ademonist.

[ChongLee]

On the other hand the Bible may be a bunch of fairy tales and made up stories, and you may not be a medium.

Next time you confront the Devil, how about snapping some pics on your cell phone, or something.

+1 on that, and while I am here reading another of his thread again,
I'll repeat myself one more time...
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e25/chongleepalao/pics.gif?t=1235349265

[Thunder]

The Bible is stupid.

[ExMinister]

Whose father is the devil? Mine?

[Fitter]

Whose father is the devil? Mine?
Must be because mine is a retired aircraft mechanic.:D

[Achán hiNidráne]

Heh... I only wish!

[Beerina]

A more parsimonious explanation is that The Bible is just a recording of a bunch of word-of-mouth fables, indicating a changing morality through time.


This man's attitude may be the first contraction pangs of the religious meme trying to purify itself by removing the embarrassing behavior of its central character in his salad days.

It's doomed to failure since Vox Populi vox dei has superceded religion as the religion of choice that empowers the masses*.





* Note that it's especially taken over the ability to legally force itself on other people.

[Foster Zygote]

The Bible is stupid.

I'll say. Out of ten games of chess I've challenged my Bible to, it's only beaten me three times.


Thanks folks, you're a great audience. Try the veal.

[ThatSoundAgain]

... And your mother smelled of eldeberry.

[Lucian]

Abraham and Moses were medium ...

Gaétan

Noah was medium-rare.

[JimBenArm]

Oh, dear. I guess this means I'm a demon! What ever shall I do?

I know! I'll become a Methodist!

[Lord Emsworth]

Smacks a little of that strand that involved Demiurges, and stuff like that. The sieve in my head can't come up with what it was called, though.

[Lothian]

Well I'll be damned, land of plenty, land of fun, to find out I'm Nimrod's son. Oh bury me, far away please, bury me. Ha-haaa, the joke has come upon me

[Dave Rogers]

Whose father is the devil? Mine?

It might be me he's talking to. My father is a lawyer.

Dave

[Seren_]

Smacks a little of that strand that involved Demiurges, and stuff like that. The sieve in my head can't come up with what it was called, though.


You are refering to Gnosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism).

[fuelair]

On the other hand the Bible may be a bunch of fairy tales and made up stories, and you may not be a medium.

.Actually, I'm pretty certain he's a petite.:D

[This Guy]

Actually, I'm pretty certain he's a petite.:D

I used to be a medium. Then, about 20 years ago, I had to switch to Large. If I don't get off my butt and exercise some, I'll be going to Extra Large soon :(

[Lord Emsworth]

You are refering to Gnosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism).

Right that is it.

Some Gnostic philosophers identify the Demiurge with Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament, in opposition and contrast to the God of the New Testament. Still others equated the being with Satan. Catharism apparently inherited their idea of Satan as the creator of the evil world directly or indirectly from Gnosticism.

[fuelair]

Your father is the devil


Your mother is your lover





You little demon you!!

[Bikewer]

Interestingly, the Gnostics had similar ideas. They maintained that the OT god was just one of a wide panoply of gods who happened to be an insane rogue.... That sort of explains his behavior.
Gnostics thought that the OT god and the world he created were a big cosmic mistake, and the purpose of learning the "secret knowledge" of Jesus was to get back to the REAL gods in their proper supernatural realm.

Likely not what the OP is talking about....

[Eddie Dane]

I take issue with this.

My dad may be a sharp dresser, a fast driver and a bit of party animal.
There have been questions about fidelity in the past, no proof actually ever surfaced.
But devil?

He's a huge stones fan, maybe that caused the confusion.

Anyway, he turns sixty next week, I think he's mostly harmless these days.

[Beerina]

Best Gnostic explanation: The god of the OT was insane, and the Serpent was actually helping humans by revealing the truth about good and evil so they would no longer be captured little animals.


See, the real god was so infinite and perfect that a copy of it self-instantiated. This copy was also perfect and good, although it was not the original. Still, it was perfect enough that a copy of it self-instantiated. And so on, and so on, and so on.

Then at the 7th copy down the chain (lucky number), enough errors had compounded that no further copy self-instantiated. So that god, furious, created Eden and populated it with ignorant intelligences to worship it.

The serpent came along to rescue them. He's the hero of the OT.


And makes a lot more sense. Such as it is.

[Gaetan]

Re: Beerina, here what i think abour Adam and Eve

The forbidden fruit

New International Reader's Version, genesis, 3.2-4

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We can eat the fruit of the trees that are in the garden. 3 But God did say, 'You must not eat the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden. Do not even touch it. If you do, you will die.' "

The tax are the monopoly of devil. This is the devil who told to Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit and this is the devil in the form of a serpent who told them to eat it. The Christ was right to say in the Gospel according to St. John in 8.44:

"From the beginning, the devil was a murderer. He has never obeyed the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his natural language. He does this because he is a liar. He is the father of lies.”

The error of Adam and Eve was to blame themselves to eat it. When you face the devil the last thing to do is to acknowledge one’s faults because you open your doors to him.

Gaétan

[fuelair]

Re: Beerina, here what i think abour Adam and Eve


The tax are the monopoly of devil. This is the devil who told to Adam and Eve to not eat the fruit and this is the devil in the form of a serpent who told them to eat it. The Christ was right to say in the Gospel according to St. John in 8.44:


GaétanI agree - depending upon which tax you speak of here. Or did you mean tacks? or techs (monopolized by Beelzebuub according to the eighth book of the Septuagenarion)? And is this according to the Vulgate, the RSV, or which version of the Wholly Bibble?

[ExMinister]

Well my father is the devil so that should give me some status around here and I like Beerina's Adam and Eve. In fact, with the addition of a little guilt and maybe some ritual fasting, we could make it into a new religion. We need more religions, my father always says.

[Gaetan]

Re: Fuelair

Here are exemples of tax:

The satanic tax

I want to point out the ignorance of peoples facing the technique of devil, as for exemple, the satanic taxes as food restrictions. At the beginning of the creation, the devil was present. He didn’t want that Adam and Eve our parents eat apples in the garden. The devil wanted to stop humans to live as free beings. Luckily Eve free us of this tax by eating the apple.

Later the devil in his instructions to Moses prohibit peoples to eat food like pigs, since that time muslims and jewish follow this tax. The effect of this compulsive tax is the following: if you don’t eat pig, no problem. But if you eat it, the devil comes in you. This is a satanic tax as if the devil would stop you to drink milk otherwise he would kill a member of your family. He shift his own crimes on your fault. You see right away this criminal of Satan, the god of jewishs, muslins and christians. The Christ told them that what was impure was not what comes in the mouth but what comes out of it.

Gaétan

[Hokulele]

The Christ told them that what was impure was not what comes in the mouth but what comes out of it.


So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.

[JimBenArm]

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.
Well, that goes without saying!

[The Atheist]

This is all lies.

I am Satan.

I most certainly did not write any parts of the bible.

[JimBenArm]

This is all lies.

I am Satan.

I most certainly did not write any parts of the bible.
Dad? Is that you?

[SphereGuy]

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.

I've never been more attracted to you.

[kittynh]

gosh Hokulele!!! You rock!!

[ChongLee]

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[godless dave]

He has a bad temper and is a bit of a control freak, but I wouldn't say he's the devil.

[IMST]

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.

That, however, is just a matter of good manners.

[billydkid]

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.
You are a very naughty girl.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.

Someday someone will make that a bumper sticker.

[Hokulele]

OK, tell me truthfully that that wasn't the first thing you all thought of when reading the phrase "comes in the mouth".

:D

[JimBenArm]

OK, tell me truthfully that that wasn't the first thing you all thought of when reading the phrase "comes in the mouth".

:D
Well, not me. After all, being an ex-sailor, I'm not acquainted with the vulgar side of humanity.

















Related to, wallow in, role model for, yes. Acquainted, no.

[X]

Later the devil in his instructions to Moses prohibit peoples to eat food like pigs, since that time muslims and jewish follow this tax. The effect of this compulsive tax is the following: if you don’t eat pig, no problem. But if you eat it, the devil comes in you.



Wait...

So, the devil prohibited the eating of pork because if you eat pork, the devil would get into you?

Which means the devils evilness in this case lies in prohibiting people from allowing themselves to be infected with the devil?

And god is good because he let's us eat pork and become infected with the devil?

I are confused... :confused:

[Elizabeth I]

Wait...

So, the devil prohibited the eating of pork because if you eat pork, the devil would get into you?

Which means the devils evilness in this case lies in prohibiting people from allowing themselves to be infected with the devil?

And god is good because he let's us eat pork and become infected with the devil?

I are confused... :confused:

Not nearly as confused as the author of the post you are trying to parse...

[The Atheist]

Wait...

So, the devil prohibited the eating of pork because if you eat pork, the devil would get into you?

Which means the devils evilness in this case lies in prohibiting people from allowing themselves to be infected with the devil?

And god is good because he let's us eat pork and become infected with the devil?

I are confused... :confused:

It's actually quite simple.

God knows that people never do as they're told; remember the Tree of Knowledge? "Eat not the fruit thereof, else ye shall surely die."

What's the first thing that snake Eve does as soon as Adam's gone to collect firewood?

Same with pork. It's all a double-bluff between the god and me.

I, Satan, on the other hand, live to confuse. If you thought Job was fun, imagine what playing with 2 billion of the suckers is like.

[Gaetan]

You wrote

I are confused...

This is not hard to understand, a tax is a hold the devil has over you. He wants to commit crimes and shift them on you. If you eat pork he'll commit crimes and say that it is your fault because you disobey the tax. He'll put on you more and more tax until you won't be able to do anything.

Gaétan

[fromdownunder]

Later the devil in his instructions to Moses prohibit peoples to eat food like pigs, since that time muslims and jewish follow this tax. Gaétan

Actually some of the OT food laws made a lot of sense, especially those relating to pork and shellfish. Of course if the nomads who developed these laws had knowledge of curing meat or refrigeration, they never would have written them in the first place.

These food laws had nothing to do with a non-existant local deity ("God"), or Satan, his equally non-existant lunch buddy (see Job for an explanation). They came into existance because the tribes discovered that eating three day old pork or oysters after these foods were exposed to the heat for an extended period was not a very good idea, if you wanted to be certain of staying alive.

Norm

[The Atheist]

Actually some of the OT food laws made a lot of sense, especially those relating to pork and shellfish. Of course if the nomads who developed these laws had knowledge of curing meat or refrigeration, they never would have written them in the first place.

Sorry, mate, but that fallacy came up the other day and it's still wrong.

Most Pacific Islanders survived for centuries on nothing but shellfish and pork. It's quite simple; eat it fresh.

[Georg]

The Christ told them that what was impure was not what comes in the mouth but what comes out of it.
Gaétan

So fellatio is fine provided you swallow rather than spit.

Nominated.

[fromdownunder]

Sorry, mate, but that fallacy came up the other day and it's still wrong.

Most Pacific Islanders survived for centuries on nothing but shellfish and pork. It's quite simple; eat it fresh.

(emphasis mine)

Gee I wonder who said this in the exact same post you were responding to::

"They came into existance because the tribes discovered that eating three day old pork or oysters after these foods were exposed to the heat for an extended period was not a very good idea"

Oh wait. I did.

It's easy enough to eat fresh food when you are not nomadic and (as with Pacific Islanders) lived near the sea, or perhaps cooked for an entire tribe (so you would not have three day old uncured pork - it would all go in the one meal), but when you are nomadic goat herders, who only visit the sea coast occasionally, and gather shellfish to eat later (yes, this is speculation) you may not eat it all in one hit - saving food for 'ron was probably a good idea at the time. Eating said food three days later was not a good idea.

Norm

[RoboTimbo]

You wrote



This is not hard to understand, a tax is a hold the devil has over you. He wants to commit crimes and shift them on you. If you eat pork he'll commit crimes and say that it is your fault because you disobey the tax. He'll put on you more and more tax until you won't be able to do anything.

Gaétan


But didn't god invent barbecue sauce to make pork yummy? Is there a barbecue sauce tax? Ribs and pulled pork and the devil's work? Really?

And for your last sentence, can you give us examples of someone who has so much tax that they aren't able to do anything?

[TX50]

So what exactly is their beef with eating pork?

[P.J. Denyer]

I'm not an expert, but I seem to remember reading that pork was a staple of most of the surrounding tribes with no ill effects. The current theory seems to be more that dietry restrictions were more concerned with keeping 'the chosen' segregated.

[This Guy]

You wrote



This is not hard to understand, a tax is a hold the devil has over you. He wants to commit crimes and shift them on you. If you eat pork he'll commit crimes and say that it is your fault because you disobey the tax. He'll put on you more and more tax until you won't be able to do anything.

Gaétan

So, what crimes has this devil of yours done? And what evidence is there that it was the devil that did it?

Surely as long as you purpose the devil has been around, committing crimes, he should have made the FBI's 10 most wanted by now! I've never even seen his face on a wanted poster in the Post Office!

I suggest that it was men and women/girls and boys that committed the crimes, and that the reasons they did it vary. Despite what Flip Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_Wilson) said as Geraldine, I don't believe the devil made them do it.

[KarlG]

You wrote



This is not hard to understand, a tax is a hold the devil has over you. He wants to commit crimes and shift them on you. If you eat pork he'll commit crimes and say that it is your fault because you disobey the tax. He'll put on you more and more tax until you won't be able to do anything.

Gaétan


Does he do requests? If i scarf down a few sauages, can he pinch me that 42" tv ive had my eye on for a while but can't afford?

[Lothian]

Does he do requests? If i scarf down a few sauages, can he pinch me that 42" tv ive had my eye on for a while but can't afford?You want to buy a cross-dressing dwarf?

[This Guy]

You want to buy a cross-dressing dwarf?

It would be fun at parties!

[X]

This is not hard to understand, a tax is a hold the devil has over you. He wants to commit crimes and shift them on you. If you eat pork he'll commit crimes and say that it is your fault because you disobey the tax. He'll put on you more and more tax until you won't be able to do anything.



But you wrote:


Later the devil in his instructions to Moses prohibit peoples to eat food like pigs, since that time muslims and jewish follow this tax.



So why exactly is the devil prohibiting people from becoming infected with the devil?

It makes no sense.

[Gaetan]

The christian error

When the devil talks to you you see what he has of well and good. You are sensitive to his nice words. You don’t see what is evil. If you would know the devil you would know that he is an individual intelligent and cunned. When you face the devil, it is not the time to be more intelligent and cunned than him. The devil is a spirit, he read in your mind then it isn’t the time to play smart with him. The question is: how would you know if it is the devil? The beings from God will always tell you to do good in all circonstances. The devil will finish to tell you to do bad. From this moment you should’t trust that spirit and no more listen to him.

When you read the revalations given to Moses in the deuteronomy and the leviticus, you see what is good. You are sensitive to the words of devil when he tells you to love one’s neighbour, to not kill, to honor your father and mother. In fact, you would also hear these words from God. When the devil talks about killing: Stoning, vengeance, animals sacrifice, conquest and war, you still believe as the muslims, jewish and christian that it comes from God and that what is your error.

Some peoples from the christian hierarchy said: the animals sacrifice, we don’t like it. The food restriction, we don’t like it. On some other things, they said to themself, we like it, let’s keep it. They think that they are more intelligent and cunned than the devil when they should’t listen to him. They think that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit when they put their trust in Satan. This is when their faith in this impostor have them commited big crimes in the past and they will commit others in futur. You should discuss it with friends. The Father of Jesus isn’t the same spirit that the Moses’one.

Gaétan

[Lothian]

Oh, the devil will find work for idle hands to do. I stole, and then I lie just because you asked me to. But now you know the truth about me you won't see me anymore.

[Ocelot]

OK, tell me truthfully that that wasn't the first thing you all thought of when reading the phrase "comes in the mouth".

:D

http://www.sexinchrist.com/oralsex.html

[Upchurch]

http://www.sexinchrist.com/oralsex.html
I call Poe's Law on this thread. That link is hilarious!


eta: dude! (http://www.sexinchrist.com/fist.html) (NSFW)

[Safe-Keeper]

At OP: At least he's realized and admitted the teachings of the Old Testament are evil. Not too many believers have.

[The Atheist]

It's easy enough to eat fresh food when you are not nomadic and (as with Pacific Islanders) lived near the sea, or perhaps cooked for an entire tribe (so you would not have three day old uncured pork - it would all go in the one meal), but when you are nomadic goat herders, who only visit the sea coast occasionally, and gather shellfish to eat later (yes, this is speculation) you may not eat it all in one hit - saving food for 'ron was probably a good idea at the time. Eating said food three days later was not a good idea.

Norm

Mate, you're piling the fallacies on thick & fast here.

Jews weren't generally goat-herders. When Moses led them around the desert for a century or two, all they had to eat was stuff the sky-daddy sent them.

As someone else has already noted, plenty of other tribes in the same area don't have the same problem with pork & oysters.

It's wrong to try to explain that one away as commonsense when it's just another bit of idiotic fantasy to go with all the other ones, like talking snakes, dragons & unicorns and people flying off into the sky after death.

The christian error

When the devil talks to you you see what he has of well and good. You are sensitive to his nice words. You don’t see what is evil. If you would know the devil you would know that he is an individual intelligent and cunned. When you face the devil, it is not the time to be more intelligent and cunned than him. The devil is a spirit, he read in your mind then it isn’t the time to play smart with him. The question is: how would you know if it is the devil? The beings from God will always tell you to do good in all circonstances. The devil will finish to tell you to do bad. From this moment you should’t trust that spirit and no more listen to him.

:dl:

Don't be silly, my little friend.

Your problem with this good/bad stuff is marvellous. How do you know whether the good or bad you feel you're doing is not part of a far greater plan to cause the opposite of your desires?

The only part you get right is the stupidity of humans trying to clash brains with Satan. I am Satan is, after all, the father of lies. No point getting you to realise that getting christians to hate fags facilitates my the intention is to trick christians into having Jesus send those christians to Hell for bigotry!

Heck, I probably shouldn't let on, but there's a special place in Hell reserved for christians who disobey the teachings and love of Jesus, the christ.

The good news is, it's run by the best and cleanest outfit in Hell. If you're gay, and shall we say, large, you'll get the job of tormenting them for at least a few centuries.

When you read the revalations given to Moses in the deuteronomy and the leviticus, you see what is good. You are sensitive to the words of devil when he tells you to love one’s neighbour, to not kill, to honor your father and mother. In fact, you would also hear these words from God. When the devil talks about killing: Stoning, vengeance, animals sacrifice, conquest and war, you still believe as the muslims, jewish and christian that it comes from God and that what is your error.

What makes you think the spirit you talk to is your god? Is it the loving and beautiful face he portrays? You realise that Satan has perverted the bible, yet you're too simple to see that the same Satan is capable of appearing to you bathed in a heavenly halo.

Reemember, not just any old liar, the father of lies.

Beware, my sweet.

They think that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit when they put their trust in Satan. This is when their faith in this impostor have them commited big crimes in the past and they will commit others in futur.

Yet you're so sure that isn't happening to you.

How easy it is.

:bgrin:

[Almo]

Jesus was a medium, we have the proof of it in the transfiguration when he talks with spirits and also when he confronted the devil in the desert, a spirit.

Bolding mine. Where is this proof? There is none.

[fromdownunder]

Mate, you're piling the fallacies on thick & fast here.

Actually I said that it was speculation. Did you miss that part? Speculation, especially about something that nobody really knows can be a bit of fun if you let it be.

Jews weren't generally goat-herders. When Moses led them around the desert for a century or two, all they had to eat was stuff the sky-daddy sent them.

The Moses and Jewish leged is of course a complete fiction, as you know.

And "nomadic goat herders" is a phrase sometimes used, and always as a slight pejorative to make a point about some of the early Israelites without having to go through the entire known/guessed at history of every tribe.

As someone else has already noted, plenty of other tribes in the same area don't have the same problem with pork & oysters.

Perhaps these other tribes were not nomadic, and had regular access to fresh seafood, and did not need to cart it around the desert for days.

It's wrong to try to explain that one away as commonsense when it's just another bit of idiotic fantasy to go with all the other ones, like talking snakes, dragons & unicorns and people flying off into the sky after death.

As I said, I was speculating, and not trying to form a hypothesis. But if you assume thast everything that got recorded in the OT is crap, that is as bad as saying everything in the OT is true. Probably worse.

Another example of a law that made sense is the rule against marrying close siblings. It is possible, even likely, that some results of sex between close siblings which produced 5-headed offspring (and for your personal benefit - I am sure nobody else will misunderstand), I do not "literally mean" 5 headed kids) led the people who wrote the laws to come to the (reasonable) conclusion that marriage between siblings can lead to bad results,

We don't know who wrote any of it, when it was written, how old and Chinese Whispered the original stories were, who edited, what the political and religious influences were, or how in hell the "final" version of the OT, including the laws came about. So suggesting logical reasons for at least some of them, and speculation as to why these laws were included, is not a fallacy - it cannot be evidenced either for or against.

Unless of course you want to argue along the lines that New York does not exist because Breakfast at Tiffanys is fiction?

Norm

[ExMinister]

But you wrote:





So why exactly is the devil prohibiting people from becoming infected with the devil?

It makes no sense.

It makes about as much sense as Gaetan's other thread.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=136045

[The Atheist]

As I said, I was speculating, and not trying to form a hypothesis. But if you assume thast everything that got recorded in the OT is crap, that is as bad as saying everything in the OT is true. Probably worse.

Funny, I don't see much speculation involved - here is your first post. (bolding mine)

Actually some of the OT food laws made a lot of sense, especially those relating to pork and shellfish. Of course if the nomads who developed these laws had knowledge of curing meat or refrigeration, they never would have written them in the first place.

These food laws had nothing to do with a non-existant local deity ("God"), or Satan, his equally non-existant lunch buddy (see Job for an explanation). They came into existance because the tribes discovered that eating three day old pork or oysters after these foods were exposed to the heat for an extended period was not a very good idea, if you wanted to be certain of staying alive.

Norm

Not very speculative at all, is it?

Anyway, you clearly see it now.

And if I ever say that the whole OT is rubbish, you'll be able to argue that point me with me. In the meantime, it was hardly worth mentioning, was it?

[Gaetan]

Just and equitable come from devil

With the devil you have to be just and equitable. With God, there is no equity, you have to forgive and cancel the debt of others. Charity and voluntary work come from God, with God there is no remunaration for a service.The work remunarated comes from devil. You commit a fault against the devil and it is never forgiven. A fault committed against God is immediatly forgiven. With the devil it is every one for himself, with God you should share with others. Money is used to establish the equity so it is the monopoly of devil.

Gaétan

[The Atheist]

Money is used to establish the equity so it is the monopoly of devil.

Yet isn't it funny that the god's churches are the places which collect money every week?

[LostAngeles]

Your father is the devil

I read the Gospels and the first books of the bible up to the deuteronomy and i came to the conclusion that the Gospels bring us close to God but the books dealing with Moses don’t come from God but the devil.
The animal sacrifices describe in the leviticus and the food restrictions or tax that we find in the Deuteronomy are the monopoly of devil. The amputations, stoning, eye for and an eye law are from devil also. The circumcision is the mark of devil. In the teaching we find in the Deuteronomy, there are good things, but they are lure to rip-off the just.


Abraham and Moses were medium but their guide wasn’t God. That guide, as in the case of Moses, would have committed supernatural acts, but there is no proof of that, and more, I should say that it is not by those acts that we should recognize the true God. The most of chief of sects say that they also lived supernatural phenomena but when we ask for proof they have none.
Jesus was a medium, we have the proof of it in the transfiguration when he talks with spirits and also when he confronted the devil in the desert, a spirit. And more, he had knowledge of after live that only a medium can have. I am also a medium and I faced the devil many times. When you face the devil, you have to reject all that come from him. You can’t do as the Christians, to estimate yourself more conning than him, to take from his teaching what you believe that is fit for you, and reject the rest. Never do business or alliance with devil. The devil never act alone, there are million spirits that support him, he is a spirit and reads our thought.

The Christ have fought the revelations or directives given to Moses and have been crucified because of that. You know the Gospels as much as me. He couldn’t at his time, tells to peoples openly and clearly that the guide of Moses was devil. If he would have done more, he would have been stoned. Anyway in the Gospel according to St. John 8.44, he told them that their true guide was the devil. To be more clear, when the Christ talked about God, being of mercy, that wasn’t the same spirit than the guide of Moses.
By way of conclusion, if you promote the gospels, you get us close to God because the Christ committed very little error. However, if you promote of the old-testament, you promote the devil. Church committed a lot of errors in the past, it was because they adopted those books as coming from God. As for example, they burnt mediums as Jeanne d’ Arc, when the Christ, Abraham and Moses was. You should discuss it with friends.

Gaétan

You found Gnosticism. Good work. They were what, the first Christian sect to have their asses kicked out of the club, yeah?

Have a forum cookie.

[fromdownunder]

And if I ever say that the whole OT is rubbish, you'll be able to argue that point me with me. In the meantime, it was hardly worth mentioning, was it?

Naah! It was just a bit of fun to fill in a boring afternoon.

Norm

[The Atheist]

Naah! It was just a bit of fun to fill in a boring afternoon.

Norm

Well, I can understand that - and probably picked the best-ever thread for it.

Although the the extraterrestrial thread comes close.

[IMST]

Money is used to establish the equity so it is the monopoly of devil.

Gaétan

You are absolutely right! You need to get rid of all your money immediately and in a safe way. I have a method that will allow you to safely rid yourself of your cursed money without the taint of devilishness.

[ChongLee]

Aaiii-yah, my head hurts from all these satanic TAX talk, considering the economy/financial situation.

[MIKILLINI]

Money is used to establish the equity so it is the monopoly of devil.

Gaétan

How can it be the monopoly of the devil if God appreciates a cheerful spirit when giving a portion of it to God?

[bruto]

Just and equitable come from devil

With the devil you have to be just and equitable. With God, there is no equity, you have to forgive and cancel the debt of others. Charity and voluntary work come from God, with God there is no remunaration for a service.The work remunarated comes from devil. You commit a fault against the devil and it is never forgiven. A fault committed against God is immediatly forgiven. With the devil it is every one for himself, with God you should share with others. Money is used to establish the equity so it is the monopoly of devil.

Gaétan

If this is true, why did Jesus not tell us this? He said something very different about money. If you are to believe the Bible, Jesus was quite aware of the devil - he even met the devil and turned down temptation. But when he spoke of money he said it belonged to the government (in the person of Caesar), not to the devil. If anyone should know the difference it should have been Jesus Christ. Are we to assume that Jesus was lying, or was he just misinformed? Of course we could also assume that the scripture is woefully inaccurate and undependable both for fact and guidance, but that kind of puts you in as much of a pickle as every religious crackpot who cherry-picks the bible with no apparent regard for its actual content.

I also notice that you list circumcision as being of the devil. But Jesus was circumcised, according to the bible. Did the devil sneak that bit in while his dad wasn't looking? Just who is supposed to be in charge here anyway?

[AkuManiMani]

Your father is the devil.

As my mother often tells me >_>

[bruto]

..... the god of jewishs, muslins and christians.

There is but one god of muslins and Jane Austen is his prophet.

[Elizabeth I]

There is but one god of muslins and Jane Austen is his prophet.

But who is the god of the "jewishs"?

[Gaetan]

Equity is an invention of devil to trap you in purgatory or hell. A person who always look for equity can't go to heaven because heaven is a reward for peoples who haven't been treated with equity so you should never look for equity. In an ideal world everything should be free and the creation of wealth should be made of volontary work with no money involved.

Gaétan

[Hokulele]

So "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a bad idea.

Got it.

[bruto]

Equity is an invention of devil to trap you in purgatory or hell. A person who always look for equity can't go to heaven because heaven is a reward for peoples who haven't been treated with equity so you should never look for equity. In an ideal world everything should be free and the creation of wealth should be made of volontary work with no money involved.

GaétanWhoa, there, pilgrim....Who is doing the sending to heaven and hell here? Why should a loving god let the devil send us to purgatory and hell? If heaven is reserved for those who have not had equity on earth, then you can't desire the reward without desiring equity. That's quite a double-bind. And if lack of equity on earth is a requirement for heaven, then God's plan requires the satanic in order to operate smoothly. What a mess.

What difference does it make what would occur in an ideal world if God has insured that no such world can ever exist?

[Hokulele]

What difference does it make what would occur in an ideal world if God has insured that no such world can ever exist?


Pfft. The insurance industry is the work of the devil as well.

[Gaetan]

The tree

The problem is not the teaching of Jesus Christ, if you follow his teaching you’ll go to heaven. The problem is that Christians instead of planting their own tree used the tree planted by the devil. The tree planted by the devil can only gives bad fruits. Christians should plant their tree with the seeds given by the Christ. I also point out that it is not a good practice to build a house from sand bed.

Ref: Matthew 7.15-21;24-28

Gaétan

[bruto]

The tree

The problem is not the teaching of Jesus Christ, if you follow his teaching you’ll go to heaven. The problem is that Christians instead of planting their own tree used the tree planted by the devil. The tree planted by the devil can only gives bad fruits. Christians should plant their tree with the seeds given by the Christ. I also point out that it is not a good practice to build a house from sand bed.

Ref: Matthew 7.15-21;24-28

GaétanSo why does the teaching of Jesus use the same tree? Are you using a special bible different from the one the rest of us are reading?

[arthwollipot]

When you face the devil the last thing to do is to acknowledge one’s faults because you open your doors to him.Just and equitable come from devilYour God sounds very unpleasant. I don't think that's the kind of God that I would want to bow to, let alone acknowledge.

[alfalfafour]

I would suggest taking this to a forum populated with more Christians. Then you guys can battle out who knows their imaginary friend better. Most people here would feel like it's ALL made up and makes about as much sense as arguing about which deity was guiding Odysseus.

You might want to suggest a Bigfoot forum. Christians are almost getting as rare. I thought I saw one the other day, but it was a guy standing in the shadow of a telephone pole, and the shadow made it look like he was standing next to a cross. Ok, enough sarcasm.

I actually believe this is the religious subforum and the subject seems appropriate. I am a medium, not Christian. I won't chase the prize. The spirits lie, and I couldn't prove anything. Why do you think there are so many denominations of Christianity? The spirits lie, and I couldn't prove anything. He thinks he saw the devil. The spirits lie, and I can't prove anything.

[MIKILLINI]

The tree

The problem is not the teaching of Jesus Christ, if you follow his teaching you’ll go to heaven. The problem is that Christians instead of planting their own tree used the tree planted by the devil. The tree planted by the devil can only gives bad fruits. Christians should plant their tree with the seeds given by the Christ. I also point out that it is not a good practice to build a house from sand bed.

Ref: Matthew 7.15-21;24-28

Gaétan

Who put the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden? Why put such a deadly tree within reach of the very first created human beings?
God had to have known his (created by God) adversary Lucifer would show up sometime and attempt to trick Adam and Eve into eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Looks like that was a bad idea.

[Gaetan]

Bruto Wrote

So why does the teaching of Jesus use the same tree? Are you using a special bible different from the one the rest of us are reading?

No, Jesus Christ used a différent tree completed opposite to the teaching of Moses and the opposite of God is the devil. Here is the proof:

Moses and his father

Animal sacrifices: Lv 1 Lv 3 Lv 4 Lv 5 Lv 7 Lv 8 Lv 9 Lv12 Lv 14 Lv 15 Lv 16 Lv 17 Lv 19 Lv 22 Lv 23 Dt 27

Discriminations :Lv 21.9 Lv 18.22 Lv 21.16-24 Lv 22 Lv 25 Nb 30 Dt 17 Dt 20 Dt 24

Food restriction and other tax: Lv 11 Lv 23 Dt 14 Dt 16

Eye for an eye law: Lv 24 Dt 19

War: Lv 26 Nb 31 Nb 32 Dt 2 Dt 9 Dt 20 Dt 31

Stoning: Lv 20 Lv 24 Dt 21 Dt 22

Amputations : Dt 19 Dt 25


Jesus and his Father

Animal sacrifices :Mt 21.12-14 Mc 11.15-18 Jn 2.13-16 Jn 6.51-60. The Christ didn't sacrifice animal and there is no pasage where he ate animal food.

Discriminations : Mt. 19.1 –9 Mc 2.13-17 Lc 5.30-32 Lc 7.1-10 Lc 7.36-50 Lc 15.1-2 Lc 16.14-15 Lc 19.1-10 Jn 4.1-9

Food restrictions and other tax: Mt 9.14-16 Mt 12.1-14 Mt 15.11-20 Mc 2.18-20 Mc 2.24-28 Mc 3.1-7 Mc 7.14-23 Lc 5.33-35 Lc 6.1-5 Lc.6.6-11 Lc 14.1-6

The eye for an eye law: Mt 5.38-42 Lc 6.29-30 Mt 18.21-22

War: Lc 5.44-45 Mt 5.9 Mt 26.52 Lc.3.14 Lc 6.27-35.

Stoning: Jn 8.1-7.

Amputations : There is no passage where the Christ encourage amputation

Gaétan

[IMST]

You might want to suggest a Bigfoot forum. Christians are almost getting as rare. I thought I saw one the other day, but it was a guy standing in the shadow of a telephone pole, and the shadow made it look like he was standing next to a cross. Ok, enough sarcasm.

I actually believe this is the religious subforum and the subject seems appropriate. I am a medium, not Christian. I won't chase the prize. The spirits lie, and I couldn't prove anything. Why do you think there are so many denominations of Christianity? The spirits lie, and I couldn't prove anything. He thinks he saw the devil. The spirits lie, and I can't prove anything.
Last edited by alfalfafour; Yesterday at 10:19 PM. Reason: typos

Well, thank FSM you fixed the typos. This wouldn't have made any sense at all otherwise.

[Lothian]

Christians should plant their tree with the seeds given by the Christ.

GaétanMy priest used to give me christ's seed in his chambers after choir.

[alfalfafour]

Well, thank FSM you fixed the typos. This wouldn't have made any sense at all otherwise.


Thank you for letting me know that another version of the concept might be necessary. "The spirits lie" means that when they contact me, I can never be sure that I am getting the truth. It is almost as if I were speaking to a human.

"I can't prove anything" means that I have given up on actually recieving the $1,000,000.00 prize from JREF. It also means that if a spirit calls himself Jesus, or the Devil, or God himself; I would remain skeptical if I were you.

[bruto]

Bruto Wrote



No, Jesus Christ used a différent tree completed opposite to the teaching of Moses and the opposite of God is the devil. Here is the proof:

Moses and his father

Animal sacrifices: Lv 1 Lv 3 Lv 4 Lv 5 Lv 7 Lv 8 Lv 9 Lv12 Lv 14 Lv 15 Lv 16 Lv 17 Lv 19 Lv 22 Lv 23 Dt 27

Discriminations :Lv 21.9 Lv 18.22 Lv 21.16-24 Lv 22 Lv 25 Nb 30 Dt 17 Dt 20 Dt 24

Food restriction and other tax: Lv 11 Lv 23 Dt 14 Dt 16

Eye for an eye law: Lv 24 Dt 19

War: Lv 26 Nb 31 Nb 32 Dt 2 Dt 9 Dt 20 Dt 31

Stoning: Lv 20 Lv 24 Dt 21 Dt 22

Amputations : Dt 19 Dt 25


Jesus and his Father

Animal sacrifices :Mt 21.12-14 Mc 11.15-18 Jn 2.13-16 Jn 6.51-60. The Christ didn't sacrifice animal and there is no pasage where he ate animal food.

Discriminations : Mt. 19.1 –9 Mc 2.13-17 Lc 5.30-32 Lc 7.1-10 Lc 7.36-50 Lc 15.1-2 Lc 16.14-15 Lc 19.1-10 Jn 4.1-9

Food restrictions and other tax: Mt 9.14-16 Mt 12.1-14 Mt 15.11-20 Mc 2.18-20 Mc 2.24-28 Mc 3.1-7 Mc 7.14-23 Lc 5.33-35 Lc 6.1-5 Lc.6.6-11 Lc 14.1-6

The eye for an eye law: Mt 5.38-42 Lc 6.29-30 Mt 18.21-22

War: Lc 5.44-45 Mt 5.9 Mt 26.52 Lc.3.14 Lc 6.27-35.

Stoning: Jn 8.1-7.

Amputations : There is no passage where the Christ encourage amputation

Gaétan

yum, cherries.

If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off.

[The Atheist]

Stoning: Lv 20 Lv 24 Dt 21 Dt 22

Clearly, some followers are stoned.

[Safe-Keeper]

No, Jesus Christ used a différent tree completed opposite to the teaching of Moses and the opposite of God is the devil. Here is the proof:Cough (http://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_law_of_moses/mt05_17.html).

[MIKILLINI]

Clearly, some followers are stoned.

:dl:

Maybe it's the new Christian numerical order.

[fuelair]

My priest used to give me christ's seed in his chambers after choir.
I'm sure Gaetan would get down for that seed to plant in his garden- or whatever it's called.

[arthwollipot]

We plant the seed, nature grows the seed, we eat the seed...

Ten points to anyone who gets that reference.

[Ocelot]

We plant the seed, nature grows the seed, we eat the seed...

Ten points to anyone who gets that reference.

How many points do I get for killing the hippy?

[quixotecoyote]

Cough (http://thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_the_law_of_moses/mt05_17.html).

That's not bad, but unless you look at the next three or four pics, you miss the subversion.

[arthwollipot]

I call Poe's Law on this thread. That link is hilarious!


eta: dude! (http://www.sexinchrist.com/fist.html) (NSFW)Oh my...

I'm converting right now! Praise God! I believe (http://www.sexinchrist.com/vice.html)!

[kurious_kathy]

Your father is the devil

I read the Gospels and the first books of the bible up to the deuteronomy and i came to the conclusion that the Gospels bring us close to God but the books dealing with Moses don’t come from God but the devil.
The animal sacrifices describe in the leviticus and the food restrictions or tax that we find in the Deuteronomy are the monopoly of devil. The amputations, stoning, eye for and an eye law are from devil also. The circumcision is the mark of devil. In the teaching we find in the Deuteronomy, there are good things, but they are lure to rip-off the just.


Abraham and Moses were medium but their guide wasn’t God. That guide, as in the case of Moses, would have committed supernatural acts, but there is no proof of that, and more, I should say that it is not by those acts that we should recognize the true God. The most of chief of sects say that they also lived supernatural phenomena but when we ask for proof they have none.
Jesus was a medium, we have the proof of it in the transfiguration when he talks with spirits and also when he confronted the devil in the desert, a spirit. And more, he had knowledge of after live that only a medium can have. I am also a medium and I faced the devil many times. When you face the devil, you have to reject all that come from him. You can’t do as the Christians, to estimate yourself more conning than him, to take from his teaching what you believe that is fit for you, and reject the rest. Never do business or alliance with devil. The devil never act alone, there are million spirits that support him, he is a spirit and reads our thought.

The Christ have fought the revelations or directives given to Moses and have been crucified because of that. You know the Gospels as much as me. He couldn’t at his time, tells to peoples openly and clearly that the guide of Moses was devil. If he would have done more, he would have been stoned. Anyway in the Gospel according to St. John 8.44, he told them that their true guide was the devil. To be more clear, when the Christ talked about God, being of mercy, that wasn’t the same spirit than the guide of Moses.
By way of conclusion, if you promote the gospels, you get us close to God because the Christ committed very little error. However, if you promote of the old-testament, you promote the devil. Church committed a lot of errors in the past, it was because they adopted those books as coming from God. As for example, they burnt mediums as Jeanne d’ Arc, when the Christ, Abraham and Moses was. You should discuss it with friends.

Gaétan
Hi Gae'tan, I do not like that you called Jesus a medium! He plainly condemmns them in scripture and we are to stay away from the devils playground, that would clearly be called the occult. Jesus is the Son of God so he has authority in this world and in the heavenlies to confront everyone, even demons! I would suggest in this spiritual battle we all ask the Lord to fight and win it for us since the stakes are high!

[Georg]

A real woo-fight now? Great!

[MIKILLINI]

A real woo-fight now? Great!

I doubt it.

[Elizabeth I]

A real woo-fight now? Great!

I doubt it.

Hoping all the same:

:popcorn2

[kurious_kathy]

But who is the god of the "jewishs"?

Jesus is the Jewish Messiah but many still have not accepted him.

[bruto]

Jesus is the Jewish Messiah but many still have not accepted him.

Question one: if the Jews have not accepted him, is it appropriate to call him the Jewish messiah, simply because of his origin?

Question two: does the Jewish prophetic tradition suggest that the coming of the Messiah would result in an entirely new religion which is not Jewish?

[kurious_kathy]

Question one: if the Jews have not accepted him, is it appropriate to call him the Jewish messiah, simply because of his origin?

Question two: does the Jewish prophetic tradition suggest that the coming of the Messiah would result in an entirely new religion which is not Jewish?

Yes Jesus has fullfilled their prophesies about his coming but only some have received him. The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth. He will help them rebuild their temple so he can get up on the thrown and claim he is god, then the Jews will know they have been deceived and receive Christ. At that time they will have to flee to petra to hide for their lives. I would suggest some receive Christ now. When a Jewish person comes to know Jesus they are the most on fire souls you'll find. The Torah becomes even more alive because they see it was all about Jesus and the sacrifice he made for the souls of men. I guess right now though God is still busy saving gentiles like myself. The awesome thing is I have been grafted into the true vine which is Christ. Jesus is the head of the church and we are the body of Christ. I think I'm the feet but not sure yet. I will run this race to win though!

As for question 2 it is Christianity. Jesus is the head of his church and the Jews are still his chosen people. They call themselves Messionic Jews at this time in history but it is Christianity that once a Jewish person accepts Christ and become New Testament believers the two books come together and the Word of God is the light for us. Jesus truly does reveal himself through his word if you are seeking him with all your heart! I highly recommend it!

[Elizabeth I]

But who is the god of the "jewishs"?

Jesus is the Jewish Messiah but many still have not accepted him.

Can you say Clueles Clulles Clules Cluelles don't have a clue?


Yes Jesus has fullfilled their prophesies about his coming but only some have received him. The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth. He will help them rebuild their temple so he can get up on the thrown and claim he is god, then the Jews will know they have been deceived and receive Christ.

The thrown what?

[bruto]

Can you say Clueles Clulles Clules Cluelles don't have a clue?




The thrown what?As you well know, forum rules prevent the proper name, but it is bovine in origin, and often thrown with a shovel or long fork.

[IMST]

The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth.
Chapter and verse. Ready, Go!

[AkuManiMani]

Yes Jesus has fullfilled their prophesies about his coming but only some have received him. The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth. He will help them rebuild their temple so he can get up on the thrown and claim he is god, then the Jews will know they have been deceived and receive Christ. At that time they will have to flee to petra to hide for their lives. I would suggest some receive Christ now. When a Jewish person comes to know Jesus they are the most on fire souls you'll find. The Torah becomes even more alive because they see it was all about Jesus and the sacrifice he made for the souls of men. I guess right now though God is still busy saving gentiles like myself. The awesome thing is I have been grafted into the true vine which is Christ. Jesus is the head of the church and we are the body of Christ. I think I'm the feet but not sure yet. I will run this race to win though!

So after they accept Jesus they will burn hotter in hell? Thats nice >_>

As for question 2 it is Christianity. Jesus is the head of his church and the Jews are still his chosen people. They call themselves Messionic Jews at this time in history but it is Christianity that once a Jewish person accepts Christ and become New Testament believers the two books come together and the Word of God is the light for us. Jesus truly does reveal himself through his word if you are seeking him with all your heart! I highly recommend it!

/facepalm

[MIKILLINI]

A real woo-fight now? Great!

I doubt it.

Hoping all the same:

:popcorn2

Well, while having that nagging doubt, I was also hoping.:)
But then;

Yes Jesus has fullfilled their prophesies about his coming but only some have received him. The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth. He will help them rebuild their temple so he can get up on the thrown and claim he is god, then the Jews will know they have been deceived and receive Christ. At that time they will have to flee to petra to hide for their lives. I would suggest some receive Christ now. When a Jewish person comes to know Jesus they are the most on fire souls you'll find. The Torah becomes even more alive because they see it was all about Jesus and the sacrifice he made for the souls of men. I guess right now though God is still busy saving gentiles like myself. The awesome thing is I have been grafted into the true vine which is Christ. Jesus is the head of the church and we are the body of Christ. I think I'm the feet but not sure yet. I will run this race to win though!

As for question 2 it is Christianity. Jesus is the head of his church and the Jews are still his chosen people. They call themselves Messionic Jews at this time in history but it is Christianity that once a Jewish person accepts Christ and become New Testament believers the two books come together and the Word of God is the light for us. Jesus truly does reveal himself through his word if you are seeking him with all your heart! I highly recommend it!

Thrown, Schmown. Throne, Schmone.
As long as the Torah has been around, they finally get what it means??
Back to the nagging doubt.:(

[alfalfafour]

Does anybody know Ancient Greek?

Bacon did a good job in editing the KJV.

"Your father is the father of lies" is how he interpreted the subject line.

Wouldn't it be nice to abandon the lies and turn over a few stones and find the truth?

You might have to turn every stone.

Good Luck!!!

PS: Hell no!! I am not a Christian

[kurious_kathy]

Chapter and verse. Ready, Go!

Start here with Mark 13:13-15 13All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation'[a]standing where it[b] does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15Let no one on the roof of his house go down or enter the house to take anything out. Which ties into Daniel 9:27, 11:31, and 12:11.

& Matt 24:14-16 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.


Rev.7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Rev.14:1 [ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
You must study escotology a bit more to put these teachings together but I beleive the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. are all saved after the rapture of the church. We know they will be martyrd.

[kurious_kathy]

Does anybody know Ancient Greek?

Bacon did a good job in editing the KJV.

"Your father is the father of lies" is how he interpreted the subject line.

Wouldn't it be nice to abandon the lies and turn over a few stones and find the truth?

You might have to turn every stone.

Good Luck!!!

PS: Hell no!! I am not a ChristianOkay well what about this which is the answer to the name of this thread...1 John 2:21-23
21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

[IMST]

Start here with Mark 13:13-15 13All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14"When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation'[a]standing where it[b] does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15Let no one on the roof of his house go down or enter the house to take anything out. Which ties into Daniel 9:27, 11:31, and 12:11.

& Matt 24:14-16 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.


Rev.7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
Rev.14:1 [ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
You must study escotology a bit more to put these teachings together but I beleive the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. are all saved after the rapture of the church. We know they will be martyrd.

You said "The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth."

Nowhere in the verses you quoted do I see the words Jew or anti-christ. I see NOTHING about ANYONE accepting christ. You seem to be trying to explain something entirely different now.

[kurious_kathy]

You said "The Bible tells us more Jews will accept Christ once the anti-christ is ruling on earth."

Nowhere in the verses you quoted do I see the words Jew or anti-christ. I see NOTHING about ANYONE accepting christ. You seem to be trying to explain something entirely different now.
If you'll look at the verse that says 144,000 of the tribes of Isreal I think that is very clear they are of Jewish descent. I have studied escatology a lot and I tie in lots of different Pastors teachings but everyone must investigate them themselves and come to their own conclusions. I am not a preterist!

[MIKILLINI]

If you'll look at the verse that says 144,000 of the tribes of Isreal I think that is very clear they are of Jewish descent. I have studied escatology a lot and I tie in lots of different Pastors teachings but everyone must investigate them themselves and come to their own conclusions. I am not a preterist!

See Kathy? That is a problem. Everybody who investigates them are left to their own conclusions and I would surmise the conclusions are not all similar.
Now you are left to ponder how the conclusions are even correct.

[IMST]

If you'll look at the verse that says 144,000 of the tribes of Isreal I think that is very clear they are of Jewish descent. I have studied escatology a lot and I tie in lots of different Pastors teachings but everyone must investigate them themselves and come to their own conclusions. I am not a preterist!

no anti christ, no indication of conversion, no hint of jewish faith in that verse. I'm having trouble reading anything into your statement that would actually indicate truth to your claim that the bible says jews will convert when the anti christ rules the earth. Can you actually support that or are you backing off it?

[bruto]

If you'll look at the verse that says 144,000 of the tribes of Isreal I think that is very clear they are of Jewish descent. I have studied escatology a lot and I tie in lots of different Pastors teachings but everyone must investigate them themselves and come to their own conclusions. I am not a preterist!

I know I should not nitpick spelling, but "eschatology" has an "H" which distinguishes it and its operative root rather vitally from "scatology," and although I am tempted to point out once again that your postings resemble the latter more than the former, you probably should not be advertising the fact.

[Toke]

Perhaps you should try catolisism, the pope have a direct link to god and can tell you the unadultered truth. No need to read the bible yourself.

[kurious_kathy]

no anti christ, no indication of conversion, no hint of jewish faith in that verse. I'm having trouble reading anything into your statement that would actually indicate truth to your claim that the bible says jews will convert when the anti christ rules the earth. Can you actually support that or are you backing off it?
Are you Jewish? I only ask because I know they don't receive Jesus as the Messiah and they choose not to believe in the New Testament. My bringing up the future prophesies still yet to happen are something all will someday see come to pass. I would be watching for a peace treaty to be signed for Isreal. They will have 3 years of peace and then the desecration will happen and they will know this world leader has deceived them.

[MarkCorrigan]

Are you Jewish? I only ask because I know they don't receive Jesus as the Messiah and they choose not to believe in the New Testament. My bringing up the future prophesies still yet to happen are something all will someday see come to pass. I would be watching for a peace treaty to be signed for Isreal. They will have 3 years of peace and then the desecration will happen and they will know this world leader has deceived them.

You know it isn't just Jews that don't receive Jesus as messiah right?

[This Guy]

Are you Jewish? I only ask because I know they don't receive Jesus as the Messiah and they choose not to believe in the New Testament. My bringing up the future prophesies still yet to happen are something all will someday see come to pass. I would be watching for a peace treaty to be signed for Isreal. They will have 3 years of peace and then the desecration will happen and they will know this world leader has deceived them.

You didn't answer spare time's question. You replied with a question.

Can you support the claims you made with scripture?

I'd also like to know if you follow all the Jewish laws? Or do you ignore Jesus' claim that the laws would not diminish until "Heaven and Earth pass away"?

Guess you could say I'm also Kurious ;)

[IMST]

Are you Jewish? I only ask because I know they don't receive Jesus as the Messiah and they choose not to believe in the New Testament. My bringing up the future prophesies still yet to happen are something all will someday see come to pass. I would be watching for a peace treaty to be signed for Isreal. They will have 3 years of peace and then the desecration will happen and they will know this world leader has deceived them.
I want to demonstrate something here: I'm going to answer your question in clear terms.

No, I am not Jewish. My parents are Lutherans and raised me in that church. Now that I am not in their household, I see no evidence for god(s) and am therefore an atheist.

I had a question for you. Perhaps you could show the same courtesy that I just did and answer it clearly.
no anti christ, no indication of conversion, no hint of jewish faith in that verse. I'm having trouble reading anything into your statement that would actually indicate truth to your claim that the bible says jews will convert when the anti christ rules the earth. Can you actually support that or are you backing off it?

[dafydd]

Equity is an invention of devil to trap you in purgatory or hell. A person who always look for equity can't go to heaven because heaven is a reward for peoples who haven't been treated with equity so you should never look for equity. In an ideal world everything should be free and the creation of wealth should be made of volontary work with no money involved.

Gaétan
Well I've heard some harebrained stuff in my tilme,and that ranks with the best.

[fuelair]

I know I should not nitpick spelling, but "eschatology" has an "H" which distinguishes it and its operative root rather vitally from "scatology," and although I am tempted to point out once again that your postings resemble the latter more than the former, you probably should not be advertising the fact.

You beat me to pointin' out that there's a mess o' scat in a post from kat.